← The Leadership Dance
The Leadership Dance
Ep. 7: Storytelling with joy & curiosity, with Arielle Patrick
00:45:00
In Episode 7 of The Leadership Dance podcast, host Alissa Hsu Lynch speaks with Chief Marketer and Communicator Arielle Patrick, of Ariel Investments. They discuss Arielle's upbringing in a culturally rich environment, her path from Princeton to...
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- [00:03]
A
Hi there and welcome back to the Leadership Dance. I'm Alisa sue lynch and today I'm excited to have Ariel Patrick as our guest. Ariel is a chief marketer and communicator and currently leads an integrated team that drives all marketing, public affairs and communications efforts for the global asset management firm Ariel Investments and its private equity arm Arieyl Alternatives. Reporting to co CEO Melody Hobson, she sits on the firm wide Senior Leadership Team and Risk Committee and has been recognized with multiple honors including PR Week magazine's Women of Distinction Award and the Innovator 25 by Provoke Media. Ral has spent her career as an Advisor to Fortune 500 CEOs and boards. Previously, she held senior roles at Edelman and Weber Shandwick. A graduate of Princeton University, Ariel serves on boards including American Ballet Theatre with me, Yellowstone National Parks foundation, and Chelsea Factory. She is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Investment Company Institute Public Communications Committee. I could go on listing her impressive resume, but I now want to welcome Arielle to the podcast. So good to have you here.
- [01:17]
B
I am so honored to be here. Thank you so much for thinking of me. And congratulations on the podcast. This is so cool.
- [01:25]
A
Thank you. Yeah, I'm delighted to have you on. You're one of the first people I thought of. So, Arielle, you've clearly achieved a lot already in your career, and I want to dive into that later. But I'd like to start by asking you, what did you dream of becoming when you were younger? What was your upbringing like and how did it influence how you approached your career?
- [01:45]
B
Well, thank you so much again for having me. I would say that my upbringing was full of culture. My mom went to LaGuardia, the prestigious school of the arts here in New York City. She was a singer, or once a singer, always a singer. My father is a book collector in addition to being in the media industry. And we were just always surrounded by narrative, storytelling and art. And so if you were to ask me when I was a kid, I would probably say I wanted to be a musical theater actress. I danced ballet for 12 years. I was a singer also. I loved to act. I was in so many plays. And then sort of life happened, right? And I continued to focus on what interested me academically, and that sort of blossomed into the career I'm in today. But I would say the through line was storytelling, you know, writing, research, narrative. And that's sort of how I ended up becoming a communicator. But it's a longer story than you have time for on this podcast, I.
- [02:52]
A
Love that through line of what your childhood was like and being surrounded by culture and storytelling. So it makes so much sense to me now that when we first met, you told me ABT American Ballet Theatre was your dream board because ABT does classical ballets, which are really about telling stories. So that makes so much sense to me. And then also the fact that you've gone into communication. So thank you for sharing that.
- [03:17]
B
One of the things that I think people get wrong when they're trying to build a career is they think so much about the trade and trying to basically build an educational background that leads to a trade. I'm a firm believer in essentially liberal arts. Right. Learn how to write, learn how to analyze, learn how to do more quantitative skills and then those things will filter into a career. I think a lot of students that I talk to today are just so focused on the output and the end result when those core building blocks are really what make us who we are.
- [03:53]
A
Yeah, that's such great insight. And we both went to Princeton. We're liberal arts majors. You got a degree in classics and I was an English major. So that totally resonates about just. It teaches you how to think. Teaches you how to think. It teaches you how to put together a strong rationale. And that really benefited me when I went into marketing. But I want to dive into the fact that only eight years after graduating from Princeton, you broke into the C suite, which is a huge accomplishment. And now you serve as the chief Communications officer at Ariel Investments, reporting it to co CEO Melody Hobson. Do you know how big that is? So tell us how you moved from studying Ancient Greek history in college to what you're doing now.
- [04:41]
B
Yeah, it's funny, I. When people say that's a big deal, it doesn't process really for me because I focus a lot on the journey and less on trying to get somewhere specific. I sort of ditched the concept of having a five or ten year plan a long time ago in my career. And I think when I stopped doing that and trying to limit myself to a specific path, I've essentially found ways to exceed my own expectations. So in a way, almost taking a more curious, exploratory and flexible approach, more happened than I could have dreamed up. If you were to ask me when I started my career in the agency world at Weber Shamwick, what I was going to be doing in 10 years. I remember my main goal was I wanted to make vice president by the age of 30 and then come to find out by the age of 28, I was an SVP and, you know, EVP by 29. That doesn't happen by being so rigid. So I would just say the basic theme was I focused on curiosity about what was happening around me and remaining nimble, not going where the wind blew a hundred percent, but allowing that to let me change my mind. So backing up, you know, if you were to ask me, like I said, as a child, I probably wanted to be in the arts. By the time I got to college, I was very focused on journalism because I loved to write, and my father's a journalist. And so that was sort of all I knew. So I started out doing internships in journalism, starting actually the summer after senior year of high school, even before I entered college, and continued that for the next year after freshman year. But there was a lot happening that was disrupting the media industry at the time. So it was, I want to say, 0809 2010s. That was when digital was on the rise and more traditional media was really thriving. My dream job of being editor in chief of Newsweek was essentially gone as the Daily Beast and the Huffington Post took over. TV was still hanging on, but print media was pretty much waning. And so it was actually through conversations with my parents, who really had a strong handle of what was happening in the industry, as well as mentors, that I realized and discovered a career in public relations. I had no idea what that was. I didn't realize that you could be a storyteller and a narrative expert, but on the other side of things, in a sort of more lucrative career. And so that was when I decided to try internships in communications and marketing. And at the time, there was something else happening, which was the financial crisis. And at the time, there was Occupy Wall street, for those of you who are younger, that was mass protests against big banks who many people felt were responsible for the market crash. And this was a time when large PR firms were being retained by big financial institutions to protect their reputations. It was one of the first times where there was a huge focus on communications as a big part of the risk management framework for big companies. And so that became an incredibly lucrative and emerging part of the marketing and communications ecosystem. So that was what I ended up going into. It was reading the tea leaves and seeing where the industry was going and also what was happening in the world. And that's what led me to starting my career in financial services and corporate communications, which then blossomed into crisis management, which then blossomed into mergers and acquisitions and bankruptcy restructuring, and voila, here we are today. So I don't think I would have been able to discover this career if I hadn't been open and willing to change my mind.
- [08:27]
A
So I just love everything that you said and hearing about your career journey because I've been thinking a lot about this concept of choreographing your career. And I was just doing a recording with Carla Vernon, the CEO of the Honest Company, and I asked her how she choreographed her career and she, like you said, you know, I didn't have a plan all mapped out. I had to improvise. And that's also what I hear you saying about you were nimble, you were curious, and your career then developed. And this concept of choreographing your career, I think it's all about that. It's not about, oh, I know exactly what the plan is going to be. It's about, I have a vision of where I want to go, but I need to find my way there. I need to experiment, I need to improvise, I need to see where it takes me and then the best art comes out. So an artist doesn't necessarily have the perfect vision of exactly what they're going to paint, or a choreographer exactly what that dance is going to be at the end. They need to experiment and find their way and collaborate. And I hear you saying that. Does that resonate with you? I'm curious.
- [09:37]
B
Absolutely. I think another part of that, but certainly related, is finding joy in the process. So my fitness trainer always says, one foot in front of the other, that's all you can focus on right now. So it's funny, everything I apply in my life is similar. I'm a huge gym junkie. When I set out to achieve a certain goal from a fitness perspective, I really tried to ditch what I want to see in the mirror or how I want to feel at the end. I try to take joy at every painful workout, every step that might seem hard, where I've, you know, then conquered it, you know. Another thing I do which is still a little tip for people is when I have a really tough day. I actually have a notes app in my phone where I write down three things that were good, even if it were something small like a walk around the block or, you know, my daughter's smiling at me, or a nice catch up with a friend on the phone. I try to make sure that I memorialize what's good rather than get sort of drowned out by maybe feeling distracted or discouraged because I'm not. I don't feel closer to the goal right now, but taking joy in all of the pain and all of the beauty of what's happening day to day, you'll look up one day and say, oh, my gosh, look how far I got. And that'll be the most pleasant surprise rather than an excruciating process.
- [11:03]
A
That's so beautiful. Taking joy in the journey. So you talked about your background growing up in musical theater, and I know you love ballet like me. You said you studied for 12 years. You recently joined the board of trustees of American Ballet Theatre, which I'm just thrilled about. I think your communications background and all your strategy, it's just gonna really benefit the company. But I wanna dive into dance. And can you share more about what dance or performing arts has meant to you in your life? And are there any leadership lessons you've learned from your arts background?
- [11:38]
B
Well, first of all, I have you to thank for this incredible life and career milestone just for your listeners, just so you understand what an incredible person Alisa is. We ended up getting set up on a blind date for lunch through a mutual friend. And I was a bit caught off guard because you just cut to the chase and said, I heard that you're interested in this company for this reason. How can they help? There are very few people who take the time to do that and use what they have access to to help others without any expectation. We didn't know each other from Adam. And now you are a treasured friend. So note to listeners. You know your carva bank will only flourish if you continue to serve others. So thank you. Gosh. About dance and how it's taught me leadership lessons, I would say, for the most part, what I learned was poise and presence. People are often shocked when they hear that. I generally speak extemporaneously when I have speaking engagements. I don't bring notes with me. Of course, I prepare, and I spend a lot of time germinating on an idea and preparation in that way. But I'm never scripted. And I think part of what I have learned since a young age is that the way you carry yourself can unlock the ability to think on the spot. One of my mom's favorite stories, actually, about me when I was, I think, two or three from one of my very first ballet recitals was that we were all wearing these little fairy costumes and we had wands, and I dropped my wand. You know, this is a toddler, right? And so my mom sitting there like, oh, gosh, what's she going to do? And, you know, the routine had ended and everyone was exiting the stage. And she said that I made a show of coming back on stage. I'm doing my little presentation and I pick it up and I twirl and I bow and then I exit the stage.
- [13:35]
A
What a toddler. A star at 2 years old.
- [13:38]
B
That's amazing. But that's what what ballet teaches you, which is, okay, let's make a show of this. We made a mistake, but let's entertain. And always having a smile on your face, actually. And I remember my ballet teacher used to always talk about, even if you're in the worst pain, your feet are killing you, your hamstrings are on fire, look like you're enjoying it because that makes the audience enjoy it too. So it all kind of actually layers into what I was talking about. Enjoying the process, having good presence and poise, improvising, being nimble, being flexible. It's interesting. As I'm talking, I'm realizing the connectivity between some of my prior answers and dance.
- [14:15]
A
Yes. And it's funny, cause I have a similar story from when I first started dancing. And I was probably three or four years old in a pretty little tutu, you know, sparkly. And my dad tells me that I had a really bad blister and I think we were wearing tap shoes. But I knew that the show must go on and I just pretended that it wasn't happening and just danced, even with that horrible, painful blister. So we learn at an early age the beauty of performance and how to transcend the day to day, or the, you know, the bodily hurts.
- [14:50]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And as a leader, that poise comes in handy because if you're panicking or your energy is negative, that transcends to the rest of the team. Not to say that you shouldn't be authentic to yourself and pretend that everything's okay when it's not. There are moments when vulnerability actually really helps you connect with your team. But sometimes you just gotta put your game face on.
- [15:11]
A
Yeah, that's another one I'd never thought of. It's just. I mean, I always say that I learned about performing under pressure, but the way that you framed it is also just being able to be calm in stressful situations. And we learned that because you're on stage in front of a huge audience, under the bright lights, and you have to be in the flow and go with whatever happens. And being nervous about it is not going to help.
- [15:38]
B
Exactly.
- [15:39]
A
So I know you're also passionate about supporting diverse artists, whether that be in dance, fashion, or visual arts. And I learned that you started your Art collection at a relatively young age. Can you tell us more about your approach and what was the first work of art you acquired and why?
- [15:58]
B
I have to credit my parents for this one. They were always, you know, collectors in their own right, you know, on a smaller scale. But I kind of just always grew up with art around my house, and the art always told a story. Usually it was an artist that my father maybe had met through work or had been introduced to through literature or something else that was in his ecosystem. And that's kind of the through line to how I collect. There are very few artists in my collection that I have not met personally, don't have a connection to their story. If they're deceased, there's some reason they're there. And for the most part, they are diverse artists. The first piece that I ever acquired was gifted to me by them. So the first piece that I did on my own, I actually can't even recall which one was the first because there was a period where I would basically organize these young collectors events when I was in my early 20s in New York, where I would take people around to visit art studios. I would partner with galleries so that we could help make that environment less intimidating for young people who are curious about art and maybe had small budget to spend. You know, I think a lot of times people are afraid to walk into an art gallery because they assume that everything's too expensive for them. But there's always a drawing, there's always a print, there's always something that's available. You just have to build the relationship with the team in order to let them show it to you, which is a whole other topic for another podcast, but how we can disrupt the fine arts industry and how, you know, customer acquisition and development of those relationships happens. But during that time, I basically became friends with a lot of artists, and so a lot of that work was acquired through visiting them, hearing their story. I would say the most exciting moment for me was my first time buying something from an auction house. It was a Sotheby's piece by Toyin, who is actually the first, at least of record, non binary artists that people can recall. It's a 1937 piece. Toyin originally identified as a woman, then became non binary. And I just love that story. Right. To be a part of history there. Another piece that I really adored from that time period in my life was by Leonor Feeney, another queer artist from the very early 20th century. Yeah, I don't know. Those were two artists that I've never met, but really meant a lot to me based on what they represented and the bravery that they brought to their work and to their existence. And then I would say, for the most part, most of the pieces in my collection are by artists of color.
- [18:28]
A
Wonderful, wonderful. So, Ariel, your advocacy for diversity extends beyond the arts and you helped sponsor a DEI study about diversity trends in corporate America, which I saw you shared on Bloomberg tv. What are some highlights from that study? And do you have any thoughts on how the recent pushback on DEI will impact corporate diversity efforts?
- [18:49]
B
Sure. Thank you so much for even highlighting that research. It really meant a lot to me when I first started the study three years ago. I believe this is our second published study, but we've been doing this research for three years. The reason it was important to me was I felt like DEI had almost become co opted by the political environment. It's almost like it's a dirty word now and it's often conflated with environmental, social, governance, esg. People don't know where it sits, why it's important. They often, I think, sort of bastardize the term and use it as a, a way to represent, you know, left wing ideals. At the end of the day, DI is good for business because it one mitigates risk when you have a diverse supply chain and also, you know, a marketing, research and development and product strategy that reaches all the constituents authentically that you possibly can. I don't see how that's anything but alpha generating. I think two DEI leads to better employee retention, which can only be a material impact on a company if, say, for example, you have unhappy employees, you have an unhappy business, unhappy battle line. But I think how we got all messed up was not having enough hard data on those outcomes that DEI drives. So what I thought to do was just survey board directors of Fortune 500 companies and what they're observing in terms of how DEI is prioritized but also operationalized within the companies that they serve. This year, I think the most comforting data point was that even though there are negative headlines like companies like Harley Davidson pulling back on DEI as well as, you know, the Supreme Court decision On affirmative action, 98% of our directors reported that the companies where they serve on boards do consider DEI to be a primary agenda item. And the reason why I emphasize the word primary is there are so many, and you know this Elisa, as a director of the Honest Company and others, there are so many topics that a board oversees. Among them financial excellence, operational diligence, etc. The list goes on. If DEI is considered primary that's pretty huge. Where we saw some discouraging results though, was around the implementation. So even though DI is considered a primary agenda item, we saw declines in the reported amount of capital that is being committed to DI initiatives. So without money to support initiatives, it's hard to actually be effective. In some of our qualitative results, we did see some directors report that they felt that there was a little bit less energy around DEI in general in the boardroom. I wonder if it's exhaustion. I wonder if it's perhaps maybe a confidence because they feel it's been talked about so much that where the work is done. I'm not abundantly clear on where that comes from. But the bottom line is that companies, if they do consider this to be a primary agenda item, should treat it with the same rigor they would anything else. So if you want to meet your earnings guidance, you throw all of your resources at that and you also track diligently, you report data frequently that same type of rigor needs to exist in order to have a DI outcome that works for your business. And then I think just a more comprehensive approach. So we have a framework that we call the four P's Originally it was the three P's, people meaning human capital, purchasing meaning vendor and supply chain mix and philanthropy, which is self explanatory. But the fourth P we've added is around product. If you don't have a team that's focusing on ensuring that your product serves the vast audiences in an authentic and compelling way, you'll end up nowhere. So I think it's important that in this new phase of DEI that chief diversity officers actually have the skills required to oversee that broad spectrum, not just HR matters. And also the permission and the level leveling, ideally reporting to a CEO that actually allow them to galvanize an entire management team around owning these outcomes and being accountable.
- [23:03]
A
Yeah, that's a great study that you have initiated and are sharing now because you don't know how many times I've seen that McKinsey study referenced when it comes to DEI. Everyone knows that one. So it's great to have additional data to support the importance of dei. And I'm curious because with this podcast I'm really interested in more of maybe a bottoms up approach of empowering individuals to remain true to themselves as they develop their careers. And what you're talking about is more of a top down approach where it's up to the corporation to make commitments and put investments. And I think both are needed. How are we really going to drive Change. Is it going to take both? Is it more a top down approach? Give me your thoughts on that.
- [23:47]
B
I think it's, it really boils down to effective communication. So one of the most troubling findings from the data was that employees, so when I say employees, I mean average employees, rank and file employees compared to board directors disagreed on one, how much their companies actually prioritize DEI and two, why. So what we did was we pulled general population data and compared it to the data of our directors. And what we found was that for many employees, they have a lot of skepticism around why this is a priority for their companies. A lot of them felt that public relations concerns and political concerns were actually driving the reason why their companies were so invested in dei, whereas directors felt that a genuine interest in the experience of diverse employees and constituents was top reason as well as shareholder concerns ensuring that they were delivering for their investors. That huge difference shows that there needs to be better communication on both sides about one, what the feedback is from average employees about what kind of data they need to better understand why this is important. Then also companies need to feed that data as frequently as possible so that there's a culture around and an alignment around DEI so that the message cascades appropriately. You know, people always forget your employees are your greatest brand asset. They are your face. And so I think like you said, it's a two way street, but communication is, is a really important part. So I think companies, especially leadership teams, need to spend more time listening and then tailoring communications appropriately and increasing the frequency. But also the specificity on DEI outcomes and why, you know, the thesis, the why and how we're tracking.
- [25:38]
A
Yeah, I think that that makes sense. And I do hope that more corporations don't pull back from their DEI efforts because you and I clearly strongly believe in it and the results are there. I mean if you look at the honest company results, it's a super diverse board, 66% female, over 50% diverse. And we're delivering results. And ELF has had an amazing campaign, campaign as well around how, how diverse their board of directors is and they're performing quite well. And that's obviously two use cases, but your data also helps support that.
- [26:10]
B
Yeah, and I think what people forget, I love that you mentioned honest and elf is that we have a very active Gen Z population as well as millennial population that actually look at those things when they make their buying decisions. So I think historically pre social media, there maybe wasn't as much awareness among consumers about who's on the board, who's the CEO, what does the management team look like? What are the values of the institution Now? Values alignment is a really big part of the customer acquisition as well as the customer retention journey.
- [26:45]
A
Absolutely. So speaking of boards, in addition to serving on the board of trustees of abt, you also serve on a number of other nonprofit boards, including Yellowstone Forever and the Chapin School. Why did you decide to serve on not for profit boards and what are you learning from that experience?
- [27:03]
B
So I would definitely say it fell into my lap. It was never on my list of goals. I mean, I did tell you I ditched 5 year and 10 year plans. I ditched that a long time ago. But really how it happened was I spent a lot of my early 20s volunteering and focusing on lending what I could from what I was learning in my career to these institutions. So the first example would be the Harbor Sciences and Arts Charter School, which is the second oldest charter school in New York state. My dad had been board chair for a long time and actually came to me and said, we really need help with fundraising. We have a very false small footprint. How can you help? And so I started helping the team with their marketing materials to help them recruit more families to enter the lottery to enroll, because enrollment is a really big part of the survival of charter schools. I threw a benefit for them, you know, and used all of my marketing communication skills to get as many people in the room to raise money. That's actually part of the story of how I met the Yellowstone team as well. Someone came to me and said, we really need help raising money. We want to expand to the east coast. And so I started co chairing that gala for at least five years before they ended up coming to me to take a leadership role in that institution. So it was actually just about being of service. And I always thought that it was great to do that because it made me better at my job. Using my core skills in another context helped me just train and expand my brain. So, you know, selfishly, it's a two way street, right? I learn so much from my board work and that makes me better at my job and vice versa. So, yeah, I think that was pretty much it. You know, the story with the Chapin School is I went there, I adored the institution, I've always supported financially, and I basically just started sharing ideas with the new head of school as she entered a big job in a pandemic, which is a really hard time to lead a school. There were also a lot of DEI challenges during what I'd call the reckoning of the murder of George Floyd. And so, you know, through a series of conversations, I ended up being just a thought partner to her. And that's what led to that opportunity. So not to say that everything in life is so organic. I mean, sometimes you have to speak up and say what you want. But most of these stories started with volunteerism, which, which is fun. And I think now, as we recover from what some may consider to be a disappointing presidential election, I already have my eyes on other institutions that are poised to make an impact, particularly on issues related to reproductive rights and racial equity, to just see how I can lend my time and ensure that there's no atrophy in those core tenets of society as we transition to a, shall I say, different administration than what we currently have.
- [29:43]
A
Well, I applaud you for everything that you're doing and your involvement in all of these organizations. And just two things that you said really resonate with me again, picking up on joy. One of the reasons that I continue to serve on the board of American Ballet Theatre and I told my husband in this is it just gives me joy. It gives me joy to be able to give back and bring my friends and help an institution that is in need of help. And then also you talked about connections and how connections to people that you didn't know it would lead to a board position or to something that maybe you'd been dreaming of in the background, but you're willing to put yourself out there and to meet other people. And networking, which I think a lot of people don't like that term networking. Can you talk a little bit more about how you think about engaging with people and tapping into your networks?
- [30:37]
B
I am one of those people who hates the term networking, partially because it's so transactional, similar to the story about how I ended up on these boards. It starts with a relationship and an authentic and altruistic one. So, you know, I would say most of the relationships that have led to great career moments are ones that I've been building for years and years without any expectation. I remember when I was younger, especially in my early 20s, how I helped myself sort of develop these mentorship relationships was actually just being of service to those people. You know, I sort of. I don't know where it got this. Maybe it was from going to an all girls school, but I've always been particularly fearless and bold, maybe to a fault. And so I just kind of knew even early in my career that even though I was junior and green, I had something to add. Because the mentors that I was seeking, weren't sitting in my seat. They weren't doing media monitoring and looking at trend that impacted various sectors at all times. That was what I was doing at the time. So I thought, why not share it? So I would send emails. I had a bit of like a newsletter that I would send on Fridays to people that I had met or was germinating a relationship with, saying, hey, here are some headlines I thought you'd find particularly interesting this week. Here's what I'm seeing from my seat. And that actually led to the blossoming of some pretty key relationships that have stayed over time. So I would say focus less on, you know, putting your name badge on and going to a conference and meeting as many people as possible so that you can say, oh, I networked sufficiently. Focus on the one or two people in the room who you have something in common with or could and a deeper conversation with them and continue that and be of service to them over time, not just, you know, asking for things.
- [32:20]
A
Yeah, I really love that thought of a service mindset. How can you help others? And also, it just, it's not authentic. You can tell when somebody wants something from you and they come up to you. You've never spoken to them before and you're like, okay, when are they going to ask?
- [32:34]
B
Exactly.
- [32:36]
A
So it is about establishing a relationship and getting to know the person and don't expect something right away. You know, hopefully something will happen maybe in the future. But that relationship can take time. And that's happened with me where a lot of the boards that I've gotten on have just been through network connections. But really, friendships or conversations that I've had that later, they remember. And when the right opportunity comes along, then they connect the dots. So I like what you said. So on this podcast, I really want to encourage people to embrace what makes them different. And from your examples, you know, you have a lot of confidence and as you said, you're really bold. But how did you develop that confidence? How did you find your own voice? Particularly working in Corporate America, Fortune 500 companies, historically white environment. I'm sure it hasn't been easy. Like, were there barriers that you had to overcome and then just how did you find your voice?
- [33:33]
B
Great question. I would say I'm definitely the product of exceptional child rearing. I'm not going to take full credit for this. I remember vividly my parents constantly telling me, my brother and I that. Or my brother and me, that's more grammatically correct, that we could be anything. And I remember when we were accepted into the prestigious prep schools that we went to and the prestigious universities we went to that my dad would always say, you're not lucky to be there, they're lucky to have you. So those kinds of lessons just constantly stayed in my brain. And I think that I subconsciously entered rooms not assuming that people were smarter than me and that I deserve to be there. So I'll give them credit for that. But of course, not all of this, you know, comes naturally. You do have to train yourself. I think a big part of how I was able to gain that confidence and really get what I wanted out of my career was that same curiosity that I mentioned, but applying it to building relationships. So one of my closest mentors is, I would say, a very wealthy, very traditional seeming white man. And often black women or people of color or women enter big jobs and think, I don't have anything in common with the guys who are on the golf course. Where do I go? And this gentleman was a client of mine and we, we are so close. In fact, now he's a family friend as well. Really close to my family. But it all started with expressing curiosity and who he was on a face level. I was not intimidated by the fact that he was, you know, a member of fancy country clubs or members clubs. And maybe I didn't have that same access. Through conversations, we learned so much. We're both Mets fans, we both have one brother. We both love the classics. Turns out he studied classics at Princeton as well. How does that happen? Right? But those conversations, those discoveries, those connections would never happen if I hadn't just started asking questions about who he was and taking interest in that. And then it turned into a really beautiful friendship that's made a lot of parts of my career possible. I would just say yes, it's true. There are industries such as financial services where I work that are male dominated or white dominated. And there are real exclusions happening where people don't feel included in their communities. But I would put it again on the diverse person to think, think outside the box and strip someone down to their humanity and just get to know them. You'd be really surprised. They may be also are interested in getting to know you, but maybe they're intimidated or maybe they don't know where to start. I give people the benefit of the doubt. Kudos to mom and dad and stay curious.
- [36:13]
A
Yeah, I was just gonna say kudos to your parents for really instilling that confidence and belief in yourself at an early age. It's so important. And I also love what you said around giving people the benefit of the doubt, I always try to do that as well. Cause you don't really know what a person's thinking unless you know until you get to know them. And then I wanted to pick up on one other thing you said, which is that you're a Mets fan. Cause I don't know if you know that. My youngest son, Liam was part of the inaugural dance crew for the Mets this past season where they made it all the way into the playoffs. And yeah, so he had so much fun performing at the home games. So if you went to a game, you probably saw him.
- [36:55]
B
I know. I wish I had known that. That is the coolest.
- [36:58]
A
They did well this year. They did really well this year. Arielle, you're also a new mom with two beautiful girls. And I'm sure other working moms out there want to know how do you manage your many different priorities and do you make time for self care?
- [37:15]
B
Oh boy. Toughest question to answer. So yes, for context, everyone, I have a nine week old baby girl and a two and a half year old toddler, another girl. And this is probably the most challenging moment of my life. I will be honest, beautiful, but challenging. What I have done in order to get through it all, but also continue to serve the institutions that I'm serving and stay focused on my career. I weed out energy that doesn't serve me or my family. So I would say before I say yes to something, I really think, does this lead me toward the goal of whatever my goal is that week? For example, my goal this week right now is supporting my daughter as she transitions into preschool. She's had a little bit of a bumpy road. Getting adjusted socially. That's all I focus on right now. So if someone invites me to a dinner the day before the parent teacher conference, unfortunately I am not able to make that. Not because I don't love you, I don't care how important it is. I gotta be fresh and ready for that parent teacher conference. So I kind of put everything through a filter of does this feed my objective this week, this month, today? And that's my form of self care is just shedding obligation. I think that women, we feel obligated to so many different people, friends, family, the list goes on and on. But you cannot be everything to everyone all at once. You have to pick what your priority is and weed out from there. And I just feel so much healthier since implementing that, to be honest with you. So I do sometimes jot down like, what is the North Star Today, what is the North Star this week? What is the North Star this month? And it changes and I have to be comfortable and flexible about the fact that that's going to change and accepting of it. In terms of self care though, gym is a no brainer. Gotta do it. Don't skip the gym if that's your thing, or at least walks or something to take care of yourself and take a breath. I just resumed getting my facials once a month. I did my first one yesterday. Since the beginning. You look great.
- [39:17]
A
You look great.
- [39:18]
B
Thank you. No skin makeup, honey. And then, you know, the other thing that I, that I am going to get back to that has been a big part of my life is therapy. I took a bit of a break, you know, just because I had a lot to block and tackle. But I know that that's the next thing I need to really reinvest in to make sure that I'm clear and able to be the best person I can be in every room I'm in.
- [39:40]
A
Can you also just share? How do you say no? Because I actually struggle with that. I do feel the pressure when people reach out to me that I want to be helpful. But how do you say no? Give me some advice.
- [39:51]
B
Oh goodness, I love this one. So kudos to my therapist for helping me come up with I have a script because I struggle with this so much. I'm a people pleaser at heart. It's literally a disease. It gets in the way of things. Honestly, being obsessed with what others think of you. My key phrase is let me get back to you. Thank you so much. Let me come back to you. What that does is it gives me the breathing room to think, to look at my schedule, to think about the energy I want, think about my objectives, to sort of all that framework I mentioned earlier and then come back with an informed answer. I used to have the knee jerk reaction to the S without thinking and that was really leading to burnout. So let me get back to you. The same thing happens also at work. You know, sometimes you might be presenting an idea or you have a really firm view of what you want to drive as a leader at work and there are going to be other leaders or other people that have other dissenting opinions. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not right and you're going to end up in the same place. But you need to find a way to let them down easy without knee jerk reaction agreeing to their point of view and just give it time to think. So I also say to them, thanks so Much for the feedback. I'm going to come back to you on where we land. So that way I have time to process. Because I think when I started my leadership journey in the C Suite, I did have trouble with that. You know, a lot of my peers are people that had been at the organization for a really long time and had firm views of what had been working historically. And I came in to reorganize and shake things up, rebrand, restructure, all of these things, which was hard. People didn't like everything I was doing or me in the beginning. And I found myself in the beginning sort of saying yes to a lot of things that were actually diluting what I'd set out to do. And so I had to take a break and say, how do we address this? And so that let me get back to Framework is hugely helpful in all facets of life, whether it be a birthday dinner that you don't particularly want to go to that starts at 9pm when you have to wake up early, or a major business initiative that could get waylaid by people with thoughts.
- [41:52]
A
I'm going to start trying that. Let me get back to you. Another thing you said, though, that I have also realized throughout my career is not everyone's gonna like you. And that's okay. And you have to be fine with that because if you want everybody to like you and agree with you, you're not actually gonna get shit done.
- [42:12]
B
You know, you should do a whole podcast on how to accept that fact, because I still struggle with it. I mean, there's just some people, they don't like what I put out. It's just not for them. And being able to live with that is. Is tough. The only thing that you can control is moving forward with integrity, honesty, and good intentions. And then from there, that's probably more about them than you.
- [42:34]
A
So, last question, Arielle, what advice would you give to your younger self about navigating your career while staying true to yourself?
- [42:43]
B
I would say I really wish I had trusted myself earlier in my life. If I look back at my toughest moments, all the data points to the fact that it was going to work out and that I could trust myself to come through for myself. I think I spent a lot of my time in my 20s waiting for the other shoe to drop and so paranoid and terrified of maybe a good luck streak ending or something bad happening. And what I've learned is I am totally good with bad things happening because I know that I'll handle whatever, you know, storm comes my way. Yeah, I think I think trusting yourself is the hardest part and how I do that. I have another framework, you know, the Notes app. And my iPhone is super busy. So I mentioned I have the three moments exercise that I do when I have tough days. The other thing I do is I actually have a data log where I track really difficult things that have happened, where I thought I wouldn't make it through, where I came out on the other end. And I use that when I encounter something that seems really impossible. And then I go back and I'm like, oh, remember on January 1st when you thought you couldn't make it through that workout? You did that. Remember when you had that really tough moment in your marriage and you thought you wouldn't make it through and you communicated properly? That worked out. Remember that project that you had to do in the 11th hour and you were up at three in the morning and you cried at your desk and then you had the most. The most successful launch did that. I use it as my confidence booster, basically to tell myself, here's all this evidence. You can totally trust yourself in any scenario. I think a data driven approach may work for some who are nerdy, like me, but I kind of have to hype myself up using my own life history to remember, you got this and.
- [44:26]
A
You do have it. You do have it. So, Arielle, I've loved chatting with you about your leadership dance, and I know you'll continue to make a huge impact in everything that you do and be an amazing role model for your two girls as well as so many other leaders. So thank you so much for joining me on the show.
- [44:42]
B
Thank you so much.
- [44:44]
A
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