Podcast Summary: The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

Episode 662: Nicholas Thompson — The Atlantic CEO on Growing Up With a “Precariously Insecure” Genius Father, Hiring Leaders with an Edge, How Running Builds Discipline, and Why Moving at an Uncomfortable Pace Built a Million-Subscriber Media Empire
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Ryan Hawk
Guest: Nicholas Thompson, CEO, The Atlantic; Author, The Running Ground

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Ryan Hawk and Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic and accomplished distance runner, about the interconnections between running, leadership, ambition, and building resilient organizations. The discussion threads through Nick’s personal story—growing up with a brilliant but turbulent father, overcoming health challenges, developing mental toughness through running, and building work cultures that thrive on challenge and generosity. They also delve into storytelling as a leadership skill and the attributes necessary for hiring exceptional leaders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nick’s Marathon Mindset and Immediate Return to Normal Life

• Nick discusses running the NYC Marathon the day prior and immediately returning to family and work commitments, illustrating his approach to grit and balance.
  “[After the marathon] I had to like hustle back because I thought I was going to have to take my kid to a soccer game. So I like speed walked off the finish to the subway.” — Nick (02:25)

2. Growing Up with a “Precariously Insecure” Genius Father

• Ryan reads a glowing recommendation written about Nick’s father, Scott Thompson, in his youth, setting up a nuanced discussion about brilliance coexisting with deep insecurity and chaos.
• Nick candidly describes the complex legacy of his father—his intellectual hero but also unreliable, unstable, and sometimes self-destructive.
• The father-son dynamic eventually flipped, with Nick becoming the caregiver:
  “By the time I was in my 20s, it’s like I was the dad and he was the son... I was the kid and I’m the responsible one—he’s the adult and he’s the lunatic.” — Nick (07:57)

3. How Running Became a Foundation for Confidence and Discipline

• Running provided Nick with identity and confidence during a tough adolescence.
  “Sometimes you have to kind of trick yourself into believing you can do something... if I had known how fast I was going, there’s no way I would have been able to go that fast.” — Nick (15:06)
• Running became a powerful metaphor and training ground for leadership, discipline, and continuous improvement.
  “If you go out there every day... and push yourself, you get faster. There’s no two ways about it.” — Nick (12:16)
• Nick shares how stretch goals and moving at an uncomfortable pace are critical not just in athletics but in business and life.

4. Overcoming Adversity: Running Through Cancer

• Nick recounts his thyroid cancer diagnosis following a strong marathon performance, the long recovery, and the emotional significance of returning to racing afterward.
  “[It was] a really dark, profound... ultimately, sometimes bad things happen to you in life and they turn out to be really good in the long run.” — Nick (17:26)
• His story highlights the role of running in processing trauma and reclaiming one’s narrative.

5. Stretch Goals and Growth Through Discomfort

• Nick explains the necessity of “audacious goals” both in running and leading The Atlantic—how shooting for a million subscribers and profitability required pushing beyond comfort, making tough choices, and risking failure.
  “You have to move at an uncomfortable pace. You don’t get anything you want by being comfortable... if you’re setting deadlines that everything seems smooth... you’re not growing.” — Nick (19:57)

6. Mental Resilience, Adjustment, and “Continuous Forward Motion”

• Discusses dealing with “bad days” in racing and life, knowing when to push and when to recalibrate.
  “At a certain point, I was like, if I keep trying to like set some goal... I might not finish. And all that matters is that I finish.” — Nick (24:16)
• Nick’s son’s humor after a slow (for him) marathon:
  “‘Do not put that on Strava. Do not tell anybody you ran.’” — Nick quoting his son (53:16)

7. The Craft of Storytelling as a Leadership Skill

• Nick breaks down his philosophy of storytelling (and writing his memoir), with practical advice for leaders:
  • Use “the cocktail party test”—will people lean in or walk away when you tell this story?
  • Everything in your story should drive it forward and create an emotional, visual “movie” in the listener or reader’s head.
  • Ruthlessly cut any detail that doesn’t serve the story.
    “Every extra word, every extra thought, every extra detail that doesn’t propel the story... needs to be removed.” — Nick (40:28)
• He reads aloud the work of those he admires to improve his own craft.

8. Hiring and Developing Leaders: The Atlantic’s Must-Haves

• Nick lists four essential qualities he looks for in leaders at The Atlantic:
  1. Spirit of generosity—Can they collaborate without ego and support the greater good?
  2. Force of ideas—Are they intellectually sharp and able to push the organization forward?
  3. Work ethic—Driven and productive, but not at the cost of burning out.
  4. Edge (Productive paranoia)—A sense of urgency, not complacency; “I want, like, productively paranoid.” (45:36)
• Nick shares that team composition and culture have been crucial to the sustained success at The Atlantic.

9. Nature vs. Nurture & The Limits of Judging Discipline

• Discusses genetics in running (fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch muscles) and how discipline manifests differently in life and work.
• Nick reflects on not judging those who lack his training discipline, noting:
  “The discipline can come in so many different ways... I don’t mind people who don’t worry about physical discipline as long as they still have the mental discipline.” — Nick (49:07)

10. Parenting, Imperfection, and Generational Wisdom

• On the fears and humility of parenting:
  “Nothing makes me more worried about failure than parenting. Parenting is suffused with regrets, confusion, and mistakes. But when I run by, I know my children are rooting for me...” — Nick (52:10)
• Nick shares his efforts to pass on love, support, and resilience without repeating the mistakes of previous generations.

11. Advice for Young Leaders

• For graduates eager to make their mark:
  “Find the things you’re passionate in and really focus on them... Find something you love and work at it and keep pushing. And always work hard and eventually things will turn out for the best.” — Nick (54:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “By the time I was in my 20s, it’s like I was the dad and he was the son... Got to get this done, get this organized, stop picking up people in Dupont Circle. Settle down.” — Nick (07:57)
• “If you complain, you won’t get faster. And if you go out and you just say, you know what, I’m gonna do it, you do get faster. I apply that to everything in life.” — Nick (12:16)
• “There are too many people who are a little too comfortable... And what I want is, okay, did this get done? Let's get the next thing done... and you don't have to work 100 hours a week, but I do need an edge.” — Nick (45:33)
• “This is a magazine that Ralph Waldo Emerson started in a little house in Concord, right? ...You can go into that house today and you can see their Atlantics in the attic...” — Nick on vivid storytelling (42:35)
• “Every extra word, every extra thought... that doesn’t propel the story from where you are to the next spot... needs to be removed.” — Nick (40:28)
• “Continuous forward motion. Continuous forward motion. And I finished in 3:06, which was, you know, 16 minutes worse than what I thought... but whatever, still finished.” — Nick (22:50)
• “My advice is find the things you’re passionate in and really focus on them... Have faith that over time what you want to happen will happen and things will be okay.” — Nick (54:16)
• “‘Do not put that on Strava. Do not tell anybody you ran. You got to go out there tomorrow and run a marathon by yourself and do better.’” — Nick’s son (53:16)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:14 — Post-marathon routine, balance of life and running
• 03:35–08:59 — Growing up with a remarkable but chaotic father, shifting family dynamics
• 12:16 — Lessons from running applied to leadership and work
• 13:41–17:08 — Running as identity through adolescence, the pivotal “10:48” race
• 17:12–19:23 — Cancer diagnosis and its transformative impact via running
• 19:57–23:44 — Stretch goals, discomfort, and leadership at The Atlantic
• 24:16–26:08 — Marathon adaptation, shifting from goals to “continuous forward motion”
• 41:24–44:03 — Tactical storytelling advice for leaders
• 44:30–47:21 — Hiring principles and building a resilient team at The Atlantic
• 49:07–51:54 — Discipline in life vs. work; not judging by physical habits
• 52:10–54:00 — Parenting, passing on values without repeating old mistakes
• 54:16–55:16 — Advice to young leaders and new graduates

Conclusion

Nicholas Thompson bridges the gap between high-level executive leadership and the raw, vulnerable journey of self-improvement through running and storytelling. His approach to goal-setting, team-building, and overcoming adversity provides a robust framework for leaders in any field. The conversation refines our understanding of discipline, illuminates the messy humanity behind ambition, and underscores the power of “continuous forward motion”—whether pursuing stretch goals, managing a media empire, or simply trying to be a better parent.

Recommended Next Steps:

• Read Nick’s book: The Running Ground: A Father, a Son, and the Simplest of Sports
• Practice the storytelling tools shared, especially the “cocktail party test.”
• Evaluate your stretch goals: Are they uncomfortable enough to motivate growth?
• Consider The Atlantic’s hiring motto: Spirit of generosity, force of ideas, relentless work ethic, and productive edge.