← The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk
The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk
667: Nick Gray - How to Host World-Class Events, Why Leaders Need a Personal Website, Writing Like You Talk, Mastering Introductions, the Viral Tokyo Trip, & Adding Value Before Taking It
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- [00:03]
Ryan Hawk
Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com now on to tonight's featured leader. Nick Gray is an entrepreneur, author and founder of Museum Hack. He wrote the two hour cocktail party about building real relationships during our convers. Nick shares why nametags and icebreakers are not cheesy but really useful. How to host events where leaders actually connect the viral Tokyo story that started with a tweet, and why every leader should master storytelling. You also should have your own personal website. Plus, Nick shares some practical career advice on why being a great MC makes you a stronger leader everywhere else. This one went all over the place. I think you're gonna like it. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my conversation with Nick Gray. This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company dedicated to being the light.
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To the world around them.
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If you want to learn more about the CEO Burt Bean and Chief Revenue Officer Sam Kaufman, check out episode 4 24.
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We had a fantastic conversation talking about.
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My partnership with the great people at Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people or transform your business through talent or technical services. Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Hiring can be tough, but hiring the right person can be magic. Visit insightglobal.comlearningleader today to learn more. That's insightglobal.com learningleader let's start with some icebreakers.
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Are you cool with that?
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Nick Gray
I love icebreakers.
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Ryan Hawk
What's a compliment that someone gave you that you still think about?
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Nick Gray
I was in New York City and I was walking to like a bodega and this homeless guy said, he goes, you look like a doctor. And I said, oh, nobody has ever said that to me before. I assume that means something good. But I was like, oh, wow, that feels great. I like that one.
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Ryan Hawk
When did that happen? Is that recent?
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Nick Gray
No, this is like years ago. But I still think about it just because it was like, what does a doctor look like? I don't even know. I don't even know. I think that this guy was probably a genius. You know, he. He knows laser targeted things to say to people to get them to stop. And it worked for me.
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Ryan Hawk
Okay. Okay, let's do another one.
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If you could teach any class about.
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One topic that you're passionate about or an expert on, what would it be?
- [03:03]
Nick Gray
I Think I'm an expert on two things. Number one is hosting events. And then number two, I was telling you in the pre show about personal websites where any leader should have their own personal website and just the importance of that in marketing or hiring employees and stuff like that. So yeah, I'd say those two.
- [03:19]
Ryan Hawk
Have you ever thought about going to like, let's say University of Texas Austin and volunteering to teach on both of those things?
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Nick Gray
You know, I get invitations are I used to get more to speak to college classes, especially around arts programs for the work I did with museums. I think I struggle with academia. I am like, cut my teeth in entrepreneurship, move fast, break things. And while I have fun talking to students and I've gotten to do it a handful of times over the years, I find there's very little action or results that are taken. I went to teach to a class of middle schoolers. I think it was middle schoolers or maybe it was like freshmen in high school. And I started to talk about all these things and I was like, hey, raise your hand if y' all were here for the speaker last month for business. And everybody raised their hand. I said, what are two things that you guys remember from that business speaker? And nobody could remember anything from that person's talk. And I was like, you know what, we're just going to play some improv games. Like I like trashed all my slides. I was like, let's just work on conversational skills instead because y' all don't care about this business stuff.
- [04:28]
Ryan Hawk
Let's talk about of those two things. Let's start about hosting events. So Priya Parker I recorded with recently who you quote in your book, and she's amazing at this too. I think combining both of you guys now here close together on this show is really good for leaders because there are so many reasons why leaders specifically, both work wise and personal life wise, should be hosting events. You, the guy who is one of the best in the world at hosting events. Why should leaders be more focused and host more events?
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Nick Gray
So as a leader, you are probably hiring people regularly or looking for investors or just really, you know, the power of a network, right? If you're listening to this podcast, you know the power of having a network. I have found that by hosting little events, simple lightweight meetups or dinner parties or happy hours, it allows you to strengthen your network, to build your network and to keep those things that they call loose connections or weak ties, to keep those warm. So very similar to how Ryan has this podcast. You guys build a relationship listening to him. I found that by just hosting like once a quarter, a little happy hour or a meetup, it helped me keep my real life relationships warm and in touch. So that I was thought of as top of mind for people way more often.
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Ryan Hawk
Now, how about some are gonna put these in boxes like professional life and personal life. It feels to me like you don't do that. You mix them together. Is that right?
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Nick Gray
I do mix things together. I think when you're hosting meetups, a really boring event for me would be all work people. That just feels like work. And so I recommend that folks have diversity at their parties. And that's not ethnic or racial diversity, that's like occupational diversity. So I'm looking to have. If I'm hosting a work event, I also like to invite just some other random folks who I know are going to be good conversationalists and add to the energy. I generally like to host meetups for a wide mix of people that includes both professional and personal contacts. Because I think if I'm doing a professional work event, it just feels boring. It feels like I have an ulterior motive. Instead, my motive for hosting these, I'm like, hey, there's a whole group of interesting people here in town. I'd love to get you all together just to have a drink, no agenda. Meet some interesting people. That's the focus. Y' all don't know each other. Let's have a drink and say hello.
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Ryan Hawk
What's one of the cooler events you've hosted in the past, let's say six months?
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Nick Gray
I hosted an event for creators. I mean, I hate to say this because it's going to make the average listener think, oh, I can't do that, or I don't want to do that. So I'm going to couch. What I'm saying is, like, this comes from someone who has hosted hundreds of events. And this for me was one of my favorite events. This is not the day to day event that I want you to host, but I hosted an event for a bunch of creators that had over a million followers each. That was like the threshold, which, by the way, people think is so cringe, like, oh, to have a threshold of what it is. But then I had people tell me, like, secretly, they'd be like, dude, I. I am so glad that you did that threshold. A lot of people are too embarrassed to say it, or they look down upon it, but it really made sure that this was the right type of audience that I wanted to attend. Anyhow, I hosted an event and at the event I had planted in the happy hour these freestyle rappers that were mixed in the crowd. And I did a Q and A and like, I hired these people like they were professionals, but they just randomly. One guy starts beatboxing, one guy starts freestyle rapping, roasting the audience. And it was this little moment that was like, oh, my. It shocked everybody. And everybody was like, round of it was very fun.
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Ryan Hawk
That was good. Got you. Okay, let's make it more personal and relatable then. Let's say somebody has never hosted an event or never hosted something like we're talking about. That's probably not the case for most.
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People, but maybe they've had kids.
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Life's got really busy, and they, you know, they focus on their family and they focus on their work and nothing in between. So for that person, they're like, oh, God, dude, I don't even know where to start. I mean, what. What? They hired Nick to help them. Okay, we got the best guy in the world. How are you helping them? Just get started to do this.
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Nick Gray
So I'm going to give a very specific example because you mentioned kids.
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Ryan Hawk
Yeah.
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Nick Gray
The one thing that you can do, you probably, if you have kids, you host kids birthday parties. And those parties are for the kids and for their friends, but they inevitably have a lot of parents who attend. I find that simply by adding a note to the invitation like this, we will have name tags for the parents so that we can all mix, mingle, and meet someone new simply at your kid's birthday party. Doing name tags for the parents helps other parents Just say hello to somebody. I find. I talked to my friend Samir, who has three young kids. He's like, you know, I see these parents at all my kids soccer games in the school pickup line, but, like, I actually forgot the wife's name or like, I forget the husband's name. And so that is one small thing that you could do. Immediately say that you're ready, though, to host something, and you're like, okay, I. I hear the benefits of this. I want to host something. Most important advice for leaders on this podcast, do not reach to the top shelf. If you're Ryan and you're like, all right, I'm hosting something. James Clear lives an hour away. I'm going to invite him. Do not invite James Clear to your very first happy hour or meetup that you're doing. I want your first party to be for your neighbors, the parents of kids at your school, those LinkedIn connections, high school buddies you haven't seen in a while. Your first party should be a comfortable meetup for 15 to 22 people that you host at your home with just cocktails. Not a dinner party. Cocktails, light snacks, whatever you get for under 100 bucks. But you want to do an easy party like that just to practice some of the fundamental things that I've learned that help make any meetup better. Do that. And then slowly, once a quarter, you'll be adding more people to it. And filter in your list.
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Ryan Hawk
Okay, we got 20 people. RSVP, they're coming. We're like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. They said yes. It's even though it's neighbors and random people, but we got it.
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It's 10 days from now.
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What are we doing? How are we planning? How are we sending the reminder email? Like, what are we doing?
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Nick Gray
Okay, so I'm glad that you mentioned that they RSVP'd, because that's so important. It's one of the biggest mistakes. New hosts are absolutely terrified that nobody will arrive. And so the best way to ensure that people arrive, because I found from helping hundreds of people host their own party, as long as you get a minimum of 15 people to show up, your party will generally be a success. As long as you can get a minimum threshold. And so one thing you have to do is collect RSVPs. The platform I like the best these days is called Party Full P A R T I F U L. It's what all the youth are using, but you want to use it to get people to rsvp, to let them know what to expect, and then to answer your question, to send them reminder messages. And so 10 days before, you're going to want to hit them with a reminder message that's just hyping up the party. About a week before, I want to send them another reminder message. That's a little dossier of who the attendees are. And so I will pick about half of the attendees and write something little. Ryan Hawk hosts a podcast. He wrote a book. He lives in Ohio. Ask him about the ski trip he went on with his family. Nick Gray lives in Austin, Texas. He loves to do yoga. He just got married. Ask him about his book, the Two Hour Cocktail Party. I write that up for half of the guests or more.
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Ryan Hawk
Right?
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Nick Gray
You do all of them if you want, But I send that in the reminder messages because it also serves to make anxious people or socially awkward feel like they are welcome and they have a conversational access point.
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Ryan Hawk
Okay, we're at the party, we get there, it's at our house, people are they're showing up. How do we make it, like, awesome from the very beginning?
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Nick Gray
Okay, practical tips. This is the least important, but it's the most specific. You gotta label your trash cans and your bathrooms. A lot of these, like, fancy houses, you know, you, like, walk around, you're like, where the hell is the trash can? And you're like, opening 10 different drawers. I went to this New Year's Eve party at a billionaire's house, and I snuck up from dinner to go to the bathroom. I'm like, opening up guest room doors. I'm walking into the. I'm like, I. Because all the doors look alike and they're closed. I had no idea where the dang bathroom was. Put up a little simple handwritten sign on a note card, trash can, bathroom, stuff like that as people arrive. Here's your job. Your job as the host is to greet and welcome every single person and to make them a name tag. Write it out right in front of them. First name only. Do not pre write your name tags. I find that writing them handwritten first yourself is a really nice way for you to say, man, Ryan, welcome to the party. Let me make you a name tag here real quick. Give them the name tag and you point them to somebody else.
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Ryan Hawk
What if you don't actually know their name? Because maybe it's the spouse or, you know, you lose it for a brief moment.
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Oh, no, I don't remember his name.
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You know, like, what do you do?
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Nick Gray
The ideal thing to do is to address that head on and say, oh, my God, I just had a mind blank. Remind me your name. The cheat. I hate that, though.
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Ryan Hawk
I hate that so much.
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Nick Gray
Right? Then the cheat hack is to be like, hey, what's up, dude? Let me make you a name tag. Remy, how do I spell it? And that backfires sometimes because they're like, J O, R Y a N, right? Or they're like, sue, S U, E. But hopefully there's something like Sarah, S A R A H. Do you ever.
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Ryan Hawk
Have them write it?
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Nick Gray
I don't like to have people write it themselves because their handwriting is bad. They write their full name. They write it real small. I like to do it in big block letters so that they just show up and put it on. But they could write it as well. I actually haven't tested that too much. I prefer to do it so it's tied into the welcome process.
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Ryan Hawk
Okay, sorry, keep going.
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Nick Gray
All right, so you do them a name tag. You point them in the right direction of the bar or someone to say hi to at the party itself. The party, by the way, is not like a crazy rager. Like you have some playlist on in the background, like Beach Boys playlist or something. There's some in show notes I can put about, like some playlists on Spotify that I like. You're just playing some background music. You have some simple finger foods and snacks out. You have a self serve bar. The purpose of this gathering is for people just to meet some other new and interesting people that you have collected in your town. Your job as a leader, as far as it goes with events, is to go through life collecting the interesting people that you meet and helping them meet each other. Okay, you're listening to this pod. So you're already a leader. Now can you become a connector? And one of the ways to be a connector is just to host these meetups and to force the collisions. So one way that we force those collisions is by leading two or three rounds of introductions at your meetup. And so a way that I like to do that is to make a little announcement 30 minutes after it starts and say, hey, everybody, welcome. There's so many interesting people here. I want you all to meet each other. We're gonna do this little activity where you split into small groups. It might seem silly, but I promise the purpose tonight is for you to talk to as many new people as possible. So bear with me through these activities. But I promise it's so helpful. You're gonna meet some really cool folks. We're gonna split into small groups of three or four people, and you're gonna go around and tell your life story in two minutes. Now, I know, like, your life story that can be intimidating. So you can think about it through a personal lens, through a professional lens, through entrepreneurship lens. Talk about your business, but really talk for that full two minutes. Form groups of three or four now. And then I'll tell them something. I'll be like, all right, the person with the longest hair goes first, and the person with the shortest hair is in charge of the stopwatch. Right. Or the timekeeper. But I'll do that little small group thing first. And then I have everybody circle up later and say their name and what they do or something that they're real excited about. We do that to help increase these collisions for people to mix and talk to new people.
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Ryan Hawk
Let's say you're hosting your wife's birthday party. How does that change things?
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Nick Gray
You know, your wife and all her friends probably know each other, so they probably don't want to do name tags. Women and certain Gay men are very particular about what they wear and they don't want to have name tags. I can say that. Cause one of my best friends is gay. I think that you would be a little more mindful about the introductions. And honestly, if my wife was hosting a party, I would say, what would you like to do, honey? Because I will do whatever you would like to do. And I have no ideas that I would like to add to change your birthday party.
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Ryan Hawk
Got you.
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Nick Gray
Yeah.
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Ryan Hawk
Yeah.
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Nick Gray
By the way, hosting your wife's birthday party, hosting a kid's birthday party. These are very natural type of gatherings. And so I would say that they need less facilitation or structure than something like a forced weekday meetup with random people. And so the types of meetups that I really talk to people about and try to convince them, the types that changed my life were these random people gatherings that are, if we're being honest, it's kind of like a networking event. But I would never use that term.
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Ryan Hawk
Nobody wants to go to those.
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Nick Gray
Yeah, nobody wants to go to a networking event. I don't want it to be business networky. I host it at my home. So it's not like some scammy thing. But that's kind of what it is, you know, it's like a networking event of your neighbors. It's this idea that, like, look, I need more community. I know interesting people. I want them to hang out.
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Ryan Hawk
Okay, this one was big in your book. The ending. Nobody thinks about the ending. Everyone just kind of files out whenever stragglers. Like, why is it important to end on time and to end sometimes abruptly?
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Nick Gray
So when I'm hosting a meetup, I like to host a start time and an end time to end it on time. Because I found the most success in hosting these random meetups on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Tuesday and Wednesday nights work best because they're not competitive socially. Most birthday parties happen on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights. Most kids parties probably happen Saturday, Sundays. I found that Tuesdays and Wednesdays are more open and you get less cancellations and more yeses, more attendees on Tuesday, Wednesdays as such, though, like, that's a work night for everybody. And I don't want them to think this is an opportunity to come over and get wasted and drink. By the way, it's called a cocktail party or a happy hour. People in my circles at least don't drink a lot of alcohol. I'll have it out and available, but this is not a big drinking event. You want to end the party on time, though, because you want to end it on a high note. When things are going well, you want to let people have the opportunity to go home if they need to because of babysitters or something like that. I tell you, I get more compliments on ending it than on some of the other elements. People are so surprised and refreshed and they leave your party like, oh my God, that was awesome. I met all these new people. It was over in an hour and a half, two hours. And they really want to come back. They're left with a positive opinion, so they want to come back the next time you host it. Have you hosted? Hold on a sec. I want to ask you, do you host? What is your hosting experience? Do you do stuff? Can you tell me about that?
- [20:23]
Ryan Hawk
Not really. I host an event that some would see it as like a work thing. I have mastermind groups, learning leader circles we call them. And I usually go to a property, Scottsdale, Nashville, Columbus. We've been all over those, become actual friendships though a lot of the people at those events, so they almost feel like a reunion because it's the same people year after year within a mix in probably 15 to 20 new people every year. So it's a combination of like old and new. And it does feel a little bit like a reunion. And I do hire a planner, someone who does all of it for me. We do name tags for sure, all of that. I've learned a lot from you to make those events better. Even have like a. Put a little word under your name of ask me about, you know, the New York Giants or whatever and do things like that. So I do that when it comes to socially, not that much like at my house, not very much. Sometimes just a small group of friends. But not like the businessy networky thing. But I would like to. I think it would be cool. I think more of us should do that. That's partially why I wanted to talk to you.
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Nick Gray
Okay, great. So few questions. Number one, how many people come to those Mastermind events? And little plug, how can people sign up or apply to be involved?
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Ryan Hawk
About last year we had 44 people. Learningleader.com anyone could apply. Yeah.
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Nick Gray
Learningleader.com it's 44 people. And does it happen once a year?
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Ryan Hawk
Yeah, we do it in May.
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Nick Gray
Super cool. You probably do a lot of group work with people like this is advanced. This is like more of a mastermind format.
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Ryan Hawk
Most of them are high level leaders within companies of wide variety of industries, sizes, levels of experience. It's cool. I've become genuine friends with a number of them. Because they're just high character, high competent people, the type of people you want to hang out with. It's really cool.
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Nick Gray
So for people listening to this pod, you probably hear that Ryan hosts this annual mastermind. And it's like, I can generally tell that he genuinely loves it. It's probably one of his favorite weekends year round.
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Ryan Hawk
I think literally a second was over in Scottsdale. We hiked a mountain together. We did all this stuff. I started thinking about the next year's one, like on the flight home. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
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Nick Gray
My guess is that many of your listeners want to or aspire to host their own mastermind. And my advice for you, if you are thinking about this is you need to walk before you can run. Ryan did not just jump into hosting a 44 person thing. Like, he knows to hire an event planner. My advice is host a happy hour first. Begin to learn the skills of facilitation. And there's an easy way to do that. And Ryan, for you, I have a hunch that in your town. Are you in Dayton? Did you say I am now?
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Ryan Hawk
Yeah.
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Nick Gray
My hunch is that in your town, you know a lot of people that maybe you and your wife see out and you're like, oh, we should get dinner sometime. Or you have your readers and your listeners who tell you that, like, oh, dude, we should hang out, we should meet for coffee. Or there's all these other people. That is this group that I call our loose connections or our weak ties. They are people that we would love if we had unlimited amount of time. We would love to hang out with them, but it just doesn't work for our schedule and for our calendar. I found that by hosting once a quarter, a simple happy hour, it was a way for me to touch base with those people, get some face time and just keep them in my network. Maybe. I see my friend John. Oh, John's working on this new business. Dude, I meant to hook you up with such and such. Let me follow up and send you an intro. It gave me that FaceTime in my local community for those people that I couldn't invite to my mastermind, that I didn't have a chance to go out and have dinner with. I have found that it is the single best thing that if you're willing to make the time in the time it takes to watch a Netflix movie at home, you could host a little meetup. And it doesn't have to be fancy. You don't need a guest speaker or specific programming. People just want to hang out and Meet some new people. That's why we do these.
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Ryan Hawk
I love it, man. This is a good nudge and a good push. Okay. The second thing you would teach is personal websites. And I think some people are like, nah, not for me, dude. Not for me. And I think those people, I hope, would have a more open mind. Why is that? Especially if you're in a leadership role, why should everyone have a personal website?
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Nick Gray
So if you are someone who has a blue check verified on Instagram, if you're someone who posts at least once a month on LinkedIn, you probably need your own personal website. And the reason for that is, is it's like proactive reputation management. People are out there searching for you on Google and on ChatGPT. It may not happen every single day, but I promise it probably happens every week. Somebody's out there, whether it's parents of your kids at school, hey, who's this person that's in my kid's school? Whether it's new employees. I talked to somebody two weeks ago. He's looking to buy a business, and they did. The letter of intent that came out, and all the employees saw it, and they started looking him up online, like, who is my new boss about to be? And they're Googling him and they're finding, like, his Instagram page, which is fine. He was sharp. It was like, not a page that had anything bad. But I say that you want to have a personal website to put your best foot forward and just make a good impression. You do not need to have a Gary V type page. You don't have to have a page like someone like me or Ryan, where we're keynote speakers and have all this stuff. You just need a page that's just. It can look like a Google Doc, even. And one of the reasons you want to have that is to feed these large language models, to feed Google your story, your bio, so that when somebody goes into ChatGPT and they ask, who's Ryan Hawk? It gives them some good information. Even if it's on your LinkedIn, it might not be able to crawl that. And I would prefer to put my stories and my best business history forward first. Try it out for me. Search for my name. Nick Gray. It's kind of a generic name. It tells a good story about me. And my website is a plain text, simple homepage. I used to have a fancy design site, and now I'm like, dude, it doesn't matter. 80% of my visitors are going on their cell phone. They just want to read some text about me. And have some links.
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Ryan Hawk
My prompt for you, dude. I go to ChatGPT 2 hours ago. Give me a fun new original bio for Nick Gray. Here's one of them I got.
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Nick Gray
Oh please.
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Ryan Hawk
Nick Gray throws better parties than you do and he'll teach you how. He's the founder of Museum Hack, author of the two Hour Cocktail Party, and an unapologetic enthusiast for name tags, structured fun and good vibes. Based in Austin, he's on a mission to help people make friends and actually enjoy it. It's pretty cool.
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Nick Gray
Dude. That was really good. That was good. I would challenge you that if you go to ChatGPT and you ask for it about yourself and you're not getting the results that you want, set up a simple personal webpage. Because I love tools. There's one site called card c a r r d dot co I think it's $20 a year. That's an easy way to create a simple homepage for buying your own domain name. I like a thing called Cloudflare domains. By the way, if your name.com is not available then you could do thereionhawk.com or ryanhawknews.com or something like that. Mine is nickgray.net don't be afraid of these other types of names, but I think it's helpful to have as proactive reputation management. Small plug. I started a small business that for 30 bucks a month will do all of this stuff for you. Getting a personal website I think is a really good thing that most people should have. You can check it out@personalwebsites.net have you.
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Ryan Hawk
Tried to buy nickray.com because I've tried to buy ryanhawk.com and we have gone back and forth for now like five years and the asking price is still insane to me. I have reinhawk.net have you tried to get Nick Gray.com?
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Nick Gray
It is a sore subject. It so for many years this guy in like Minnesota owned the domain name and it was for his son. He hadn't updated the page forever. It was like birthday photos at like Chuck E. Cheese. And so I'd email him every single year trying to get the domain name. And then one day I go there and it's this freaking real estate agent.
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Ryan Hawk
Oh no, I sold it. Somebody else.
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Nick Gray
He sold to somebody else. And I'm like, what the heck? So I reach out to the guy, I say, dude, major, major congrats. I just gotta ask, how did you get the domain name? I emailed the guy every year and told him any price he wanted and the other Nick Gray wrote back. He said, well, that's your problem. You emailed him every year. I emailed him every month, and one month he just replied. And I was like, dude, respect. Respect.
- [29:23]
Ryan Hawk
Yeah, I'm still working on that too. No, that's really, really good. Okay. One of the other things about you, Nick, that I've told you before, as we've talked, I feel like you've gained a comfort in your own skin, which is really cool. And you're willing to just put your life out on the Internet for all of us to read about. And one of them in particular that went viral that I want you to talk about if you're comfortable. Now, this one's April 17, 2024. It inspired me to actually book a trip with my family, which is a little bit different from this one. But here's the original tweet.
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I want to do a blind date.
- [30:00]
And go to Tokyo next weekend. If you're a woman with a passport who likes sushi and Japanese food and can ride a bike in a big city, let's go. I'll pay for everything, but in return, you have to film stupid videos of me for my socials. DM me, dude. What was going on in that moment? Did you ever envision it would go mega, mega viral with millions and millions of people who were paying very close attention to this whole story?
- [30:26]
Nick Gray
I had no clue. And by the way, I think that finished that whole thing. Finished with like 27 million impressions across all the posts. I was just bored. One night I. I knew I had to go speak in San Francisco, which, by the way, talking about public speaking, if you want to riff on this later, the best public talk I ever gave was around the time of this. And it was just. Cause I did not care. I, like, so many things were going crazy in my life. I was underslept. I just did not care. And I just ripped the best speech I've ever given. Anyhow, I knew I had to speak in San Francisco. I was going to go visit my sister in Hawaii. Japan was only seven or eight hours away from Hawaii. But I just didn't want to go back alone. You know, I was single the last time I went to Japan. It was very lonely and isolating, and I think I was just feeling lonely. So I ripped this tweet out right before I went to bed on like a Monday or Tuesday night. Dude, I want to go to Tokyo. Does anybody else want to, like, let's go. And I tweeted it and I went to bed and like, when I first posted, didn't get too much traction, but I think then that stuff snowballs. And by the time I woke up, it was going viral. And it really did. Just within a couple days, I had hundreds of applications from women writing really nice notes, wanting to go on the trip, and it became a whole situation. I post on Monday or Tuesday, had to choose someone, I think, by Friday, and I met her the next weekend in Japan. And it was crazy.
- [31:56]
Ryan Hawk
I feel like I, along with lots of people, were waiting for every update. Maybe it's embarrassing to admit, but I was. Dude, I was very curious about you. What happened? How did the trip go?
- [32:07]
Nick Gray
The trip was amazing. It was literally better than I could have ever hoped. And the biggest thing that I took out of it was that I came back to Texas after the trip ready to truly settle down and find a relationship and meet my now wife. I ended up meeting my wife a couple months after this experience because I realized I was ready to share my life with someone. So that's, like, the outcome, I can tell you, during the trip itself was crazy. We did a meetup in Tokyo, by the way, and I think, like, 35 people showed up, like, in Tokyo. 35 random people in Tokyo who were watching, which doesn't even speak to the rest of the world that was reading all this from a business perspective. I'll tell you one of the most interesting things while that was happening. And for about a week afterwards, anyone would accept my phone call. Like, I could reach out to people, and my callbacks were instantaneous. My dial to, like, answer fast. People were reaching out from everywhere. And so I didn't do it, obviously, for a business reason, but I did notice that I was like, whoa, is this what it's like to be a celebrity? Holy cow.
- [33:25]
Ryan Hawk
What's the key takeaway for other people that we could learn from that maybe we don't have? Or those listening have zero Twitter followers or they don't post or whatever it may be. What's the key takeaway? Someone could say, wait, Nick does this. It goes viral. You meet up with a woman in Tokyo was absolutely bonkers. Anyone's taking your call. So many people, I don't think had any idea who you were, were following very closely as I was paying attention to that at the time. What's the takeaway?
- [33:54]
Nick Gray
You know what? The best book that I read about storytelling is this book called Story Worthy.
- [34:01]
Ryan Hawk
Matthew Dicks.
- [34:02]
Nick Gray
Matthew Dix, right?
- [34:03]
Ryan Hawk
Yeah, he's been on the show.
- [34:04]
Nick Gray
Incredible. Pause this right now and go listen to Ryan's interview with Matthew Dix. Matthew is such a talented storyteller. I think if I had any advice to someone, it would be, look, you don't have to, like, plan a blind date trip immediately, but just think about writing from, like, write like you talk. And that's what Matthew says. Don't try to write a LinkedIn post that's like, I'm happy to announce, like, would you actually say that to someone? Like, if you saw a friend and they said, dude, what's new? Would you honestly say, well, I'm happy to announce, like, no, you wouldn't say that. You know, like, say it. Write like you talk. And so Matthew Dixon. Storyworthy is a really helpful book to think about how you post and how you share. Now that I'm married and I'm thinking about starting a family soon, I feel like I don't take as big of risks socially, and so I can't give advice for someone who's like, you know what? Like, I'm married. Like, I got kids. Like, what am I gonna post online?
- [35:09]
Ryan Hawk
I get it. I am curious. You had hundreds and hundreds to choose from. And I know you're married to someone else now, but at the time, what made you choose the person that you chose?
- [35:20]
Nick Gray
Yeah, hundreds and hundreds of people. It became overwhelming for me to really give everybody the time and attention. And so now I have a couple of people who work for me and for my family, office and investing things. And so I had a team meeting when this happened. I said, look, you guys, something's happening in my personal life. Nobody here signed up to help me for dating, but if you'd be willing to help review some of these applications, please meet me back here in the zoom room in 30 minutes. I figured, like, one or two would show up. Everybody showed up in the Zoom meeting. They could not wait to review these applications, and so they helped screen some of them. And then once we had it down to 20 or 30, I had one of my best friends help read through and kind of select some of them.
- [36:06]
Ryan Hawk
What were you looking for, though? Probably looks was a part of it. It seemed so from seeing who you chose. But also, what else were you looking for?
- [36:14]
Nick Gray
You know, I wanted to have a fun time. I wanted to be with someone who was playful, who is spontaneous. I think that there's a difference between maybe someone who writes well and someone who's, like, fun to hang out with, I guess. And so those are some things that I'm thinking of. It's hard to go back and exactly speak on, like, some of it. Like, I'M embarrassed about because I maybe did want a relationship. You know, maybe I didn't actually say that I was looking for a girlfriend, but if someone applied from France, in my mind, I was like, you know, I'm like, not gonna see that person after this. The reality of me moving to France or them trying to build a relationship is not really going to work out. And so I did filter some people out who were like, geographically just not possible to see afterwards.
- [37:04]
Ryan Hawk
I want to talk about some random things that you have posted because I think that's interesting to me. Let's talk about introductions and not doing blind ones. By blind ones, I mean one person says, nick, can you introduce me to Morgan Housel? And you just, boom, you have a group text with you, the random friend of yours, and now Morgan Housel. And Morgan now blocks you and never wants to see you again.
- [37:28]
Nick Gray
Right.
- [37:29]
Ryan Hawk
So, like, can you talk to me about the importance of the double opt in for introductions?
- [37:33]
Nick Gray
Yeah. So lots of listeners to your POD are going to know this, but if you haven't thought about it recently, a double opt in intro means that if I'm talking to Ryan on this pod and he says, oh, I really need someone to help me with search engine optimization, then I would say, oh, I know this guy John Arrow. He's so good at this. Let me set you up. A bad way for me to set that up would be to immediately hop in my email and send it to Ryan to John Arrow and say, john, meet Ryan. And say, john, you gotta meet Ryan. He's looking for a search engine optimization dude to like help him out and send it. And boom. A better way would be for me to first reach out to John and say, hey, John, are you taking new clients? I just talked to this guy Ryan. He's looking for this. I mentioned, but I wanted to check if you're down for the intro first. Here's a little bit about him and his website. And then if he says yes, then I do a new thread or I just reply and I say, hey, great, I'm ccing Ryan here. What you don't want to do is go out to a party and someone's like, oh, I'd really like to work at Google. And you're like, oh, my friend Kenton works at Google. And you open up your phone and you say, kenton, meet Janine. Janine wants to work at Google. Now this is on Kenton and it's like his problem. You want to do the double opt in to get both parties permission. And once they agree, then you send the Email to link them two together.
- [39:01]
Ryan Hawk
You copied somebody else's tweet that I love. People with interesting lives have no vanity. They start new projects with no guarantees. They're interested in people who are their polar opposites. They resign without having other job in sight. They accept invitation to do things they've never done before. They're prepared. Prepared to change their favorite color or their favorite dish. It goes on and on and on. I like these types of things, of being thoughtful and intentional about living an interesting life. Again, this is one of the reasons I wanted to record with you, because there are 750 different questions and different avenues we could take based on your interesting life. And so if you could just kind of go deeper on your overall philosophy to live an interesting life, I would love to hear you riff on that.
- [39:47]
Nick Gray
One of the most random things that just came to mind was, have you ever heard of the executive coaching program called Strategic Coach, run by a guy named Dan Sullivan?
- [39:56]
Ryan Hawk
I've heard of Dan, yeah. I've never talked to him, but yeah.
- [39:59]
Nick Gray
They do executive workshops and stuff. And they really suggested that you have one day a quarter that is called a free day. It is a weekday where you are totally free from your business. And they even suggest that you get a burner phone so that you can't check your work texts or your emails, so that you have a phone to get like your Google Maps or to call to your wife or kids, but that isn't connected to anything. And I think about that because I think, like, what if you gave yourself like one free day per quarter? What would you do? How would you spend it? I'm thinking about this because my birthday is coming up on December 8th, and I love making my birthday just about me, just what I want to do, really. And I remember last year I did it. I cleared my whole calendar. I just did what I wanted to do. I went swimming, I took a tennis lesson, I went to the mall for no reason at all. Like, I just did what I wanted to do. And I left that experience, number one, so happy. It felt so great. And number two, I was like, I can do this more often. Like, I don't have to wait for my birthday just to do this. If we are entrepreneurs, if we are truly leaders and we are in charge of our own schedules, like, what common things do we assume that really aren't requirements? So I think about that a little bit. I went to a business conference a couple months ago and there was a meeting time that was assigned with somebody else, and I was a little bored. I was like, hey, do you just want to go to the gym and like walk on the treadmill for the meeting?
- [41:35]
Ryan Hawk
And.
- [41:36]
Nick Gray
And that's not a crazy idea. It's not like, oh my God, Nick did a walking meeting. But for the person I met with, he was like, dude, this was so cool. Like, I never would have thought that, like, this was way better than just sitting down at the conference. And so I'm looking for opportunities like that perhaps out of like my own short attention span to just keep things interesting and have fun.
- [41:57]
Ryan Hawk
You're asked to emcee some monster events. Some of the people have been on this podcast whose events you've emceed or they've asked you to host them. I asked this question because I think it be beneficial to get good at the skills as an emcee that will help you in a lot of other areas of life. So I know not many people want to be an emcee. That's not the point of the question. The point of it is because I think it's a lot of this could help you in all other areas of your life, especially from a leadership perspective. So what are the keys to being a great mc? And why do you think so many of these super high level powerful people call on you to emcee their events?
- [42:31]
Nick Gray
Listen to Ryan's interview with Priya Parker, because Priya does such a good job in talking about the theory of how we are generous leaders. And when you are hosting an event, you need to be a leader. The worst kind of host is the host who is too cool to care. That's the host who says, oh man, I'm not going to do name tags at this meetup. Pretty much everybody knows each other. That's the host who says, oh, dude, I'm not going to do introductions. That sounds so cheesy. People can just go up and meet people. Like, that's not leadership. That's not what it means to like actually be a host. And so I think about the same things for events and for being a master of ceremonies that giving explicit instructions to people, telling them about the agendas. When you are a master of ceremonies, you are a ringleader for a large event and you are responsible for managing people's energy levels and keeping the show on the road. One event that I did, I was producing the event, so I hired the master of ceremonies for the people. And man, this guy was amazing. His name is James. He came out there with level 10 energy in the morning, he's cracking jokes. He was so good and so I worked an event a couple months later for Cody Sanchez, and I said, cody, look, I can be the normal emcee that I did last year. Or like, I just saw this one guy and he was like, level 10, like, you want me to do that version? And she's like, yeah, let's do it. And so I had people, yo, what's up, everybody? Good morning, Cody Sanchez. You know, I'm just level 10 character. And it felt awkward, but it was so helpful. It kept the energy going, getting people to jump up and do squats for 10 seconds before the next speaker noticing when they've been sitting for too long. Hey, let's take a quick break. Be back here in three minutes exactly, stuff like that. I think your job as a master of ceremonies, your job as a leader, as a host, is to keep the energy up, keep things moving. So I think about that a lot.
- [44:36]
Ryan Hawk
It's a great way to connect with people too, isn't it? It's weird, the power that you gain from being the person with the microphone on stage. Yeah, I know there's some science to back that up, but it is a great way to connect with people too.
- [44:48]
Nick Gray
Oh, for sure, of course, of course.
- [44:51]
Ryan Hawk
Let's say you're meeting with someone, Nick, who is a little bit earlier in their career. Maybe they just graduated from college and they want to leave a positive dent in the world. What are some general pieces of life, career advice you'd give to that person?
- [45:06]
Nick Gray
Number one, think about how you can add value. Before you take value, never send someone a message. I'd love to pick your brain. I'm looking for a mentor that is take, take, take. Think about how you can add value first. You know, listening to their podcast, listening to books that they recommend. Let's give one example. All right, so let's say that you are a new college grad and you want to connect with me. You heard that I mentioned to Ryan Hawke the storytelling book called Storyworthy. I would get on Goodreads or I would get on some other places to find other similar books. For example, we know that Matthew Dix came out with a brand new book a couple months ago. I would reach out to me and say, hey, Nick, I loved your pod. Did you know that Matthew Dix just came out with a new book? Here's a link on Amazon. Send me your shipping address. I'd be happy to send you one. When you add value first to people, they are much more likely. It's like some sort of law of reciprocity. They are much more likely to want to help you out or do something in return. I think that's the biggest one I could recommend. New college grads. New college grads are cooked by the way. I feel bad for you all with the job market because AI and these new tools are really eating the ability for people to just hire low level employees that they're willing to do the grunt work. That grunt work is really getting eaten up by a lot of these AI agents.
- [46:26]
Ryan Hawk
What should they do then?
- [46:27]
Nick Gray
I think you got to learn how to use the tools themselves. You got to learn how to work with small businesses and entrepreneurs where you can make a difference and start to really use these tools to be an equity expert.
- [46:36]
Ryan Hawk
One more thing on writing. I push leaders to have a writing practice whether they choose to publish or not. I think choosing to publish is a good idea usually because it can work as a have a magnetic effect and maybe a serendipity machine. As you've written about, what are your thought processes on? I mean, this goes hand in hand with having a personal website on the importance of having a writing practice as a leader.
- [46:57]
Nick Gray
I think it's really important. I like what Matthew Dix has. What's it called? Stories for Life. It's the activity Homework for Life.
- [47:03]
Ryan Hawk
Homework for Life?
- [47:04]
Nick Gray
Yeah, Homework for Life where every night you just write down some note of just some sort of anecdote, something that stuck out for you and it gives you ideas about things to write upon. That'd be my best advice if you're thinking about writing. If you're thinking about following Ryan's advice to have a writing practice. Look at what Matthew Dick said about Homework for Life.
- [47:23]
Ryan Hawk
Nick Man Could Go Forever. The book that I highly encourage people to get, especially about events. The Two Hour Cocktail Party. How to build Big Relationships with Small Gatherings is really, really good. Where else would you send people to learn more about you online?
- [47:36]
Nick Gray
I have a new project about museum donor databases. It's a weird world that I'm obsessed with to help support nonprofits and museums and science institutions. It is called www.patronview.com and I'm trying to create like a Wikipedia or like a tech crunch for philanthropy. So that's a new thing I'm into and I'm online. You got to look for Nick Gray's Friends newsletter. It's something. It's a labor of love where I send out my best suggestions and stuff on Amazon. Things like that.
- [48:08]
Ryan Hawk
You encourage people to write like you talk. And that's just one of the first things I said to you when we connected before I hit record is that you are one of the best at actually writing like you talk. That is way harder to do than you make it seem. But I agree with you. If you can write like you talk, it will pull people in. It'll have a magnetic effect. It just takes a lot of reps. I think it takes a lot of practice and not trying to perform and also not outsourcing your thinking to A.I. use the tools. Right. Understand how to use them, but don't outsource your thinking. I'm seeing far too much of that too, and I think that's a big problem. And if you're not careful, it could happen to all of us. Yeah, it'll spit back something that could be decent, but you don't want to outsource your thinking. I do not think that's a good idea, especially as a leader.
- [48:48]
Nick Gray
I totally agree. It's helpful as an editor, but maybe not as a writer.
- [48:52]
Ryan Hawk
Exactly.
- [48:53]
Awesome, man.
- [48:53]
Thank you so much. Hey, I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Man, this was great.
- [48:58]
Nick Gray
Yo host an event. If you host a meetup, let us know. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment and say hello.
- [49:03]
Ryan Hawk
Love it, man.
- [49:04]
Thank you. Dude.
- [49:08]
It is the end of the Podcast club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club. If you are sending me a Note, ryan@learningleader.com Let me know you learned from this great conversation with Nick Gray. A few takeaways from my notes host with intention, small touches like name tags, structured icebreakers like the few that I started this conversation with, and thoughtful introductions. They are not superficial. They create environments where people actually connect. Whether it's cocktail party, team meeting, leadership off site. Think about how you can design your next gathering to make it easy for people to engage and leave with meaningful connections. Next Master storytelling and Personal branding As a leader, you should have your own personal website. Be able to tell your story compellingly. Your narrative is your leadership tool. It builds trust, communicates your values, and helps people remember and follow you. You could just start small. Maybe share one story in your next team meeting or post a personal insight online and then add value before asking. Instead of saying, hey, can I pick your brain? Find ways to give first. Nick shared the example of perhaps a recent college grad who wants to meet him. Instead of a generic ask, they did research on his interest and then send him a book that they thought he would like. When you lead with generosity and thoughtfulness, connections become genuine and lasting. So good. Once again, I say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey.
- [50:46]
You should listen to this episode of.
- [50:48]
The Learning Leader show with Nick Gray. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that. And you also go to Spotify or Apple Podcasts and subscribe to the show and rate it hopefully five stars and write a thoughtful review. By doing all of that, you giving.
- [51:03]
Me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis.
- [51:05]
And for that I will forever be grateful. Thank you so so much. Talk to you soon.
- [51:10]
Can't wait. Sam.