The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

Episode 670: Mike Deegan – Building a Championship Culture, Mudita, Systems Thinking, and the DNA of Great Teams
Release Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Ryan Hawk
Guest: Mike Deegan (Denison University Head Baseball Coach)

Episode Overview

This episode features a dynamic conversation between Ryan Hawk and Mike Deegan, Denison University’s all-time winningest baseball coach. While Mike just led Denison to its first College World Series appearance, the conversation drills much deeper than wins and stats. Together, they explore how leaders build championship cultures rooted in joy for others (“Mudita”), practical systems thinking, curiosity, navigating slumps, powerful recruiting decisions, and the true DNA of great teams. The discussion is packed with actionable insights for sports, business, and life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Power of "Mudita" (Joy for Others)

• Definition and Impact
  • Mudita is defined as “vicarious joy”—being genuinely happy for another’s success as if it were your own.
  • "To me that is like the secret sauce of maybe life. Obviously on a sports team, not everyone can be the star...it’s really celebrating everyone’s contribution." (Mike Deegan, 02:16)
• Eliminating Envy & Creating Culture
  • Mike acknowledges envy is natural but asks: Can you intentionally celebrate someone else’s win?
  • "Can you be happy for another kid’s success as if it’s your own?" (Mike Deegan, 03:09)
  • Practical application starts at recruiting: self-selecting for those who value being part of something larger than personal achievement.
  • "If I can get out of myself and get into the team, I think that frees me up to be a better player, better person, better teammate." (Mike Deegan, 03:09)
• Quote:
  • "Envy is a natural feeling...But can we just stop it and be a little bit more intentional and just celebrate what other people are doing well?" (Mike Deegan, 04:29)

2. Curiosity as a Leadership Superpower

• Genuine Interest Builds Teams
  • Ryan and Mike discuss how curiosity is authentic love—listening deeply and asking meaningful questions.
  • "One of the greatest ways to both show love to somebody else and...the way I receive it as well is curiosity. Not fake, like, whatever, but genuine curiosity in someone else’s story." (Ryan Hawk, 08:51)
• Consulting Mindset
  • Mike highlights his work with the Toronto Blue Jays and the importance of "spotting the good first" in any group.
  • "I try to go and spot the good first...There’s plenty of time to nitpick later. If you can just be really curious...it’s like a childlike amazement thing." (Mike Deegan, 06:21)
  • Listener's Tip: Spot what people are excited about, then ask questions to go deeper.

3. Getting Comfortable in Your Own Skin

• Self-Awareness Practices
  • Mike attributes personal growth to three practices: reading, writing, and getting around wise people.
  • "If you read a decent amount, if you write...and then get around wise people and just have conversations, I think you’ll start building out the awareness of who you are and what you value." (Mike Deegan, 11:19)

4. Systems Thinking and Lasting Culture

• Coach Don Schaly as Inspiration
  • Mike credits his legendary Marietta coach with being an early “systems thinker”—creating structures that endure beyond any one individual.
  • "He could have been a CEO...was a systems thinker before that was probably like a buzzword." (Mike Deegan, 12:21)
• Frameworks at Denison
  • Everything starts with a "North Star": Win at a national level and provide an elite student-athlete experience.
  • "What kind of environments are we going to try to create to make that come to life?" (Mike Deegan, 13:54)
  • Systems for recruiting, development, and processes allow the culture to persist regardless of individual turnover.

5. Recruiting, Talent, & Taking Risks

• Self-Selection & Culture Protection
  • "I almost try to talk people out of coming here. If they say playing time, I’m like...I wouldn’t come here for that." (Mike Deegan, 15:45)
  • By questioning motives and being transparent, Mike filters for those who want to join a bigger purpose.
• Risk with High-Talent/High-Risk Players
  • If culture is strong, you can risk the “lone wolf” or high-talent, questionable-character recruit—because the group will hold them accountable.
  • "If there’s something built out that you feel pretty strongly about, I think you can take in some of these high risk, high reward people because they can’t damage the culture like you would think they can." (Mike Deegan, 15:45)
• Memorable Quote:
  • "I've never seen a great player doesn't have a little hot dog in him." (Mike Deegan, quoting an old-school coach, 18:13)

6. Team Transformation: Building a Serious Culture

• From Mediocrity to Excellence
  • When Mike started, Denison was not competitive. He set high standards; those who couldn’t commit self-selected out.
  • "These were the standards, and this is where we were going...people would self select out from day one." (Mike Deegan, 20:57)
• Seriousness vs. Fun
  • Importance of being "serious" about the work—committed, all-in, but still able to laugh at yourself.
  • "The lack of seriousness in someone like myself, who is very serious about the work...Yes, it pushed people out." (Mike Deegan, 22:12)
• Instant Turnaround
  • Talent existed, but it needed structure, discipline, and a new mindset.
  • "I think it’s amazing when you can just put boundaries and guardrails and point people in the right direction. It’s amazing what can happen." (Mike Deegan, 23:43)

7. The DNA of Great Teams

• Essential Elements (27:10–29:38)
  • Roles: Everyone has and values their role.
  • Togetherness and Sacrifice: Unified, in it together, making real trade-offs.
  • Discipline and Consistency: "Discipline and consistency is a superpower." (Mike Deegan, 28:15)
  • Leadership: A leader who is not an egomaniac, but serves.
  • Joy: The team genuinely enjoys each other, supports in bad times, and celebrates success without envy.
  • Quote: "Don’t hire for when you think times are good. Hire for the person you want to be around when times are bad. Because they’re coming, right?" (Mike Deegan, 29:14)

8. Handling Slumps, Adversity, and the Power of Self-Talk

• Positive Self-Talk (Strong Voice vs. Weak Voice)
  • "We’ve talked about strong voice, weak voice quite a bit." (Mike Deegan, 34:26)
  • Even stars like Mookie Betts need to deliberately provide themselves with grace and positive reinforcement.
• Evidence-Based Confidence
  • Use past experiences as “evidence” you can handle hard moments.
  • "Confidence is built through evidence, like creating evidence for yourself that you've done tough things in your past." (Ryan Hawk, 35:37)
• Routine, Process, and Reflection
  • Routines and preparation, not magical solutions, help players through slumps.
  • "Reminding them what makes them special and what makes them great. I think that’s something we can get away from sometimes." (Mike Deegan, 32:14)
• Mantra for Adversity
  • "Setbacks are temporary. I bounce back quickly." (Mike Deegan, quoting Trevor Moawad, 48:08)

9. Poise and Calm in Chaotic Moments

• Opposite of the Moment
  • Leaders must model the opposite emotion of the situation: calm in excitement, optimism in panic.
  • "How you show up is going to be really, really important." (Mike Deegan, 37:17)
• Baseball vs. Football Mindset
  • In baseball, maintaining calm over hundreds of games/seasons is key, compared to the intensity of football.
  • "People can think it’s boring, but you’re seeing people trying to stay calm for three hours..." (Mike Deegan, 41:33)

10. How Sports and Adversity Shape Character

• Athletics as a Microcosm
  • Sports provide controlled adversity and teach the discipline of responding positively to setbacks.
  • "It’s this unique ability to just kind of keep moving...I think that’s where the sports background comes in, is that we have some reps with that." (Mike Deegan, 46:20)
• Building Resilience in Life
  • "Setbacks are temporary. I bounce back quickly." (Mike Deegan, 48:08)
  • Teaching athletes (and kids) to support each other and themselves is vital.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mudita as a Game-Changer:
  "To me that is like the secret sauce of maybe life." – Mike Deegan (02:16)

• Curiosity = Love:
  "One of the greatest ways to both show love...is curiosity. Not fake...but genuine curiosity in someone else's story." – Ryan Hawk (08:51)

• On Systems Thinking:
  "It’s a framework that outlasts individuals...it can sustain losing certain individuals because things are cranking." – Mike Deegan (13:09)

• Recruiting Philosophy:
  "I almost try to talk people out of coming here." – Mike Deegan (15:45)

• DNA of Great Teams:
  "Discipline and consistency is a superpower. And I think the sooner you can get that in life, the better." – Mike Deegan (28:15)

• Mantra for Resilience:
  "Setbacks are temporary. I bounce back quickly." – Mike Deegan (48:08)

Important Timestamps

• [02:16] — Mudita and vicarious joy in team culture
• [08:51] — Curiosity as the highest form of connection and love
• [13:09] — Systems thinking explained in sports and business
• [15:45] — Mike’s unorthodox recruiting philosophy: self-selection and risk
• [20:57] — Turning around Denison: creating a serious, winning culture
• [27:10] — The DNA of great teams: roles, sacrifice, discipline, joy
• [32:14] — Getting out of a slump: routines, process, and preparation
• [34:26] — Strong voice vs. weak voice: building resilience through self-talk
• [41:33] — Managing energy and emotions in baseball and business
• [46:20] — Sports and the gift of learning to bounce back from adversity
• [48:08] — Deegan’s mantra: “Setbacks are temporary. I bounce back quickly.”

Closing Thoughts

The conversation with Mike Deegan is a masterclass in leadership and team-building that transcends sports. By blending concepts like “Mudita,” curiosity, process-driven discipline, and emotional resilience, Mike shares a blueprint for not just winning games, but building lasting, joyful, high-performing teams in any walk of life. Every leader—on the field or in the boardroom—will find actionable wisdom here.

Connect Further

• More Show Notes & Resources: learningleader.com
• Guest: Mike Deegan on Twitter
• Host: Ryan Hawk on Twitter

Prepared for listeners seeking depth, actionable ideas, and inspiration from Episode 670 of The Learning Leader Show.