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The Legal Department
Goal Getter: How to Avoid a Career Flatline Sheila Murphy Executive Coach
00:36:33
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- [00:00]
Stacey Bratcher
Before we get started, I want to thank Streamline AI for sponsoring the Goal Getter series of the Legal Department podcast. If you're a longtime listener, you know that I met Kathy zhu in episode 80. Kathy is a former in house counsel and developed Streamline AI to help you manage the chaos of an in house department. You know, I don't have a lot of ads on this show and so I'd really appreciate if you checked out Streamline AI. If you're general counsel, you need visibility. Who's working on what? Where are the bottlenecks? What's your true turnaround time? Streamline AI gives in house legal teams, structured intake, matter management, contract workflows and reporting all in a single system instead of tracking work in Slack, email and spreadsheets. Everything lives in one place, organized, measurable and aligned to the business.
- [00:50]
Sheila Murphy
Learn more@streamlineai My name is Sheila Murphy.
- [00:55]
I am CEO and founder of Focus Forward Consulting. And a fun fact about me is that I am on Real Housewives of New York for a millisecond during one of their charity events.
- [01:09]
Welcome to the Legal Department, a podcast for lawyers who want to learn, connect and grow their careers. I'm Stacey Bratcher.
- [01:17]
Stacey Bratcher
I'm a general counsel and I'm excited to share these conversations to help you level up in house Foreign.
- [01:28]
Sheila Murphy
Of the Legal Department. I'm excited to welcome Sheila Murphy. She's an executive coach and CEO of Focus Forward and a former in house lawyer and we are going to talk about some of the stumbling blocks that keep folks from advancing in their careers. She coaches a lot of lawyers and helps people land leadership roles and I'm excited to learn from her. Hey Sheila, how are you?
- [01:52]
Great, Stacy. I'm so thrilled to be here.
- [01:54]
Thanks so much. We're connected through a mutual friend and I've followed some of your content on LinkedIn and heard some of your other interviews. So I'm excited to delve in here. Before we get started, can you talk a little bit about your background? You know, how you got to this coaching work?
- [02:12]
Okay, so I would say so there's a path forward where when I went in house I really thought that I was going to be able to relax. I wasn't going to have to do business development. I wasn't going to have to go out and meet people and network. And then when I went in house I realized a lot of the things that made me switch from being a law firm lawyer I still needed to do in house, but no one had told me. And I saw one of my peers get promoted ahead of me. And I wouldn't have minded if he was a good lawyer, but he was a really bad lawyer. And so I had this aha moment that if I wanted my business clients to have good representation and if I wanted to have the impact in house that I really wanted to have, I had to sort of change some of the ways I was approaching my career. And I'm not going to say I turned the switch overnight because I was sort of an ostrich attorney with my head down, but I slowly started to build on these skills that make a difference in house and lead to advancement. And by the time my peer, who was not that good lawyer, left the company, he was reporting to me. And so it just shows you that you can sort of switch your DNA, because a lot of times I hear from people, well, that's just who I am.
- [03:27]
Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
- [03:28]
Sheila Murphy
I'm curious about how you were able to observe the differences between you and your colleague that led to his being promoted. So, because some people just. I see a lot of times where people believe they're the better lawyer, they're more technical, they know the answers, all that, and they get frustrated when they see others progress. How did you determine that it wasn't just the legal skills that you needed?
- [03:54]
Well, because one, I knew his legal skills weren't that good, I'll be honest. But secondly, I realized I was trying to see what the difference was. And he had built relationships throughout the company, both with senior legal and senior business people. He was very comfortable telling people what he had done and accomplished and how he had done it. He was connecting the dots and working on strategic projects. And because I sort of did this diagnosis, and then I also talked to some mentors and sponsors to get some more insights as to what it really took to get promoted, because I was just flabbergasted. I wasn't even, like, I didn't even know promotion was a possibility at that point and that he was ahead of me, so to speak, as being considered high potential. And so it really made me take a minute and sort of reflect on what I was seeing and then talk to other people to see if I was missing anything in that space.
- [04:56]
That's really, I mean, good for you. Very astute, and I think shows you took a lot of initiative in your own career. I. I see a lot of people who feel stuck, they're very talented, smart, tend to be a lot of women, by the way, and they may be overlooked for a stretch project, an assignment, some to a different part of the company or Actual outright promotion. And I thought maybe with your experience coaching so many and being in corporate America yourself, you could. From your perspective, what are companies looking for in kind of a top legal executive?
- [05:33]
Well, I used the term high potential before and the high potential isn't about your legal skills, it's about your leadership. Can you speak in plain English? Can you frame things in terms of how you move forward rather than honing in on the risks? Are you looking to connect the dots, how an issue in one part of the company is, may impact another and come up with sort of a strategic plan to reduce risk overall while allowing the business to move forward? And companies look at people differently. There are people who are legal technicians and a lot of companies, my companies, their 6 and 9 box assessment tool where they ranked your legal skills, but they also ranked your leadership. And now and then those with the highest legal skills were not that high on the potential for leader. And so that impacted their promotion. And one thing I always tell people, which is, you know, advocating for yourself, is to ask people when you're overlooked for these assignments and not go in like, I deserve this, I should have gotten it. But go in there with curiosity and say things like, what would I have to demonstrate to be considered for that type of project? What am I not doing that is allow, you know, where I'm not in that point pool of people being selected for the speaking opportunities, going to executive training and then taking the information that you're getting and coming up with a plan to sort of change a little bit of your approach, it's hard, it feels, you know, scary to go in and ask for this feedback, but when you don't have it, you're trying to navigate something in the fog without a compass. You're just blind.
- [07:13]
I think also when you see people that take that kind of initiative and ask the questions as the hiring manager or someone who does allocate stretch assignments and opportunities, to me, it makes me feel like that person really cares about their career and they kind of move a little bit into more of a high potential person. Because people to me who are willing to invest and learn about how to get better are actually the folks I want on my team.
- [07:44]
And there is something to be said for the squeaky wheel. I know you talked about. You see a lot of women not doing this. I can tell you as a manager, I had a really diverse team and mostly women. But it was one of the gentlemen who was in all the time talking to me about how he could help me. I had gotten expanded responsibilities. He came in three or four times and said, day one, do you need help? Are there things that you can't do anymore? Then day 30, I know you're now been in this position for 30 days. Is there some. And he did it as a way, and I knew it was something to benefit him too. But I tell you, having someone come in and say to you, I want to help you succeed is powerful.
- [08:27]
Well, and it puts you on their radar. It puts them on your radar. Right, like, oh, I'm going to go to John, because he's already open to taking on more. We kind of touched on this. People that think that being a good technical lawyer is going to get them attention. And I think people too often think that everyone's watching. They know my great work and they're going to come by and, you know, offer me this job. They're, they're watching me. And then they're also, you know, often disappointed when that doesn't happen. What do you think they're doing wrong?
- [08:59]
I think probably a couple of things if they're. Communication and how you're communicating is really critical. As lawyers, we are trained, if you think about, through law school, the bar exam, if you were at a law firm, to be issue spotters, to be that person who finds every possible thing that could go wrong. And we really, because we've been rewarded for it, we keep doing it rather than thinking about this is a business that wants to move forward and how do we get there and not have to prove to everyone we're the smartest lawyer in the room by going through all of those risks. You know, if someone comes in and says, I have 20 risks, but there's only maybe one or two that really matter and you can mitigate them. The business only wants to hear about how we move forward, not about all these other things. And so a lot of times we are our own worst enemies because we're not listening to what the audience wants, which is a crisp, concise way forward. And they want to make sure that you're commercially friendly.
- [10:06]
Yeah, that's, I got to say, you really hit on it. Where the training and the rewards throughout the career up until an in house position are you spot the issues, you know the law, you can tell, you know where all the minefields are. And when you get in house, you're exactly right. They only want to know about the pertinent risks or the, you know, clear and present. They, they don't want to know every possible scenario that can go wrong because then you're just a wet blanket and
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they can go outside.
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Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
You know, then there's really no use for. In house counsel and in some of the larger law departments, even for the most junior attorneys, they are still sort of rewarded for issue spotting. And then they flatline and they don't go up anymore in their career. And it's because they don't make that transformation into an enterprise leader. They're still stuck in that legal technician bucket.
- [11:00]
Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
I think it's unfortunate that I almost think it's like a Men are from Mars, women are from Venus scenario where people other than lawyers in business are sort of aware of what the game is. And then the lawyers come in and they've been in a totally different game. And no one tells them that you're not supposed to list the 10 things that could go wrong with this deal. You're supposed to figure out how to get the deal done. And so I see people kind of late to the party and really adapting to what those leadership expectations are.
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I agree, though I will say what I try to remind people of. If you've ever been in a meeting with like the technology team or the accounting team and you have no idea what they're talking about and they're going into all this detail, I go, that's what you're trying to avoid with the legal issues.
- [11:50]
That's a good example because we've all
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been in those meetings where they're going through, you know, some sort of programming glitch or whatever it is, and like, you phase out and that's not what you want. You want to be the person who finds that path forward for them in a way that is still inform of the major risks, but does it in a way that is thinking both of the business implications for not moving forward as well as the legal implications.
- [12:17]
Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
And I think as I'm picturing myself being in one of those rooms with a lot of white noise, as I call it, you hit on it when you said clear, crisp communication. And I think lawyers are not trained to do that. We're trained to give you every technical twist and turn in a lawsuit, etc. What are some ways that we can be more effective in our business? Communication.
- [12:43]
And by the way, if you look at most job postings for in house people, they all talk about a clear, concise communication style. Hint, hint and hint, hint, like so. And it's in every, you know, it doesn't matter, the industry, the company. It's really, it's a, it's a theme. And so I always tell people when they're interviewing we really spend a lot of time working on that because people come in and do that, want to do that whole dump of everything they know, right? And the only way they can judge your communication style is how you communicate in the interview. And so what I tell people is almost think about, it's prep. You're training your brain to think differently. So when you're starting to do this, think about what you were going to say at a meeting and then do the Mark Twain. If I had more time, I'd write a shorter letter and make it shorter. And the more time that you do this and if you go to a meeting and you're too long, come back and rewrite it. The more you do this, you're training your brain to think differently because and focusing on the things that matter. And I also am a big advocate. If you can have an ally in certain important rooms who can and you tell them I'm working on trying to make my communication more concise, you know, get feedback from them. Like were you good with the prepared remarks? But once people started asking questions, did you get all defensive and start to, you know, go down that path of explaining every single piece? And by getting that feedback it's one, it helps when you have someone in the room because you're more likely not to do it. But two, getting that feedback may give you insights as to what are sort of your triggers to doing it.
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You know, a couple times you've, you've suggested that people should, I'm going to say, kind of be vulnerable in going and getting feedback. Like if you're passed over from promotion or whatever to ask what should I do differently? And as you're saying to get an ally in the room, I think those are really, that's a really powerful suggestion for people because I think I'm just going to speak for myself. I feel like I was trained to sort of have a coat of armor on. I've got this, I already know I don't need help and you know, just sort of presenting as you're ready to go, you're kind of a finished product. And what you're suggesting, at least I'm hearing, is that we should be a little bit more open and vulnerable to try to get some support.
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And I think we're really stuck in our credentials. I mean I had a lot of mid level attorneys where my, I was at a large company and they had a mentorship program. And when I suggested to them that they get a mentor rather than be a mentor, it was like I had insulted Them, but they were really focused on the wrong things. And I thought by having someone else help them, they could grow. But at the same time, they were complaining because they weren't advancing. And, you know, when I was an svp, I had EVP mentors. You know, I actively sought out people both in legal and the business who could help me get to the next level. And my EVP mentor, who was in tech and ops, she had mentor who was the CEO. Like, so you're never so sophisticated and senior that you can't be continuing to learn. And it's those. I think it's those leaders who aren't thinking about growth all the time are the ones who will be left behind. Especially if you're thinking about the environment we're in today with AI, tons of regulatory change, all these things going on. We need people who are flexible, adaptable, and can navigate through the gray. And if you're not doing that, you really. It's not even that you're not going to advance. You may end up falling, lagging.
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Yeah. Well. And again, I think this is another expectation in business, that there is mentorship, that, that people are open about wanting career development and wanting and needing support for that, which again, I think, you know, and maybe this is just my vintage, but feeling like you're just supposed to know what you're, what you're doing.
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Right. And if we did, we would have done it. I mean, we're all really smart people, but a lot of this is hidden or it feels funny because we haven't been trained that we must have the answer and the right answer. And, you know, we will track things down till we find the right case citation that backs up the point rather than sort of saying, I, you know, it's okay not to know everything.
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Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
And you haven't been trained in this way, so, you know, you have to find ways to get it.
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Yeah. And on the point of, you know, it's okay not to know everything, one of the tips I always give people, because I do think that, again, with lawyers, we're conditioned to know the answer. And a lot of times, especially in the boardroom or in an executive meeting, I'll get asked a question and, you know, somebody thought of something I didn't think about, and it's okay to say, I don't know or let me look into that. I hadn't thought of that before. I think there's this perception that we have to present as if we know everything. And really, I think you're better to show some vulnerability.
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No and honesty and transparency, to me, are a core value that I think everyone should be working towards.
- [18:07]
We didn't touch on this at the outset, but I wanted to just dig in a little bit about career advancement generally. And you've written actually about kind of a perception or a belief of lawyers that we're supposed to kind of just love the job. Like, we're supposed to feel this intellectual reward because the job's so stimulating, or we've got these great relationships with clients and we're close, and aren't we lucky to have this position? And some people don't feel like they should be looking for career advancement or, you know, that looking for that next opportunity. Why is it okay to want more?
- [18:48]
Because I think wanting more is not just for yourself. I think it's for organizations. And I think the better that people are as leaders, the better organizations function. And from a personal standpoint, for me, I don't think I realized what wanting more opened up, because at one point, I didn't think I wanted to advance. And it was only when the promotion happened to someone else, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then, you know, and I remember even telling someone, well, if I was offered a promotion, I pro. I don't know if I would take it. And then I was offered within a week that promotion, and I took it, like, within 10 seconds. And what I realized about promotions in house, that was appealing to me wasn't about the title or the money, which is always nice, but it was really about being in the room and having an impact on the business, on the law department, on the organization as a whole. And that, to me, was where I got a lot of satisfaction. And so there can be different reasons why you want to advance, but to me, the greatest one is just the impact that you can have in that you're feeling more connected to the business, to the people. And I think it also gives you more insights as to what's going on in the company that allows you to plan for potential things that are changing at a company. I don't know how to put it other than that.
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You did say, though, you thought I might not take a promotion if offered. Why do you think, if you think back to that time, why was that something that you were maybe not going to pursue?
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I think I didn't want people to think I was that hungry or ambitious.
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What's wrong with that? Right?
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I know. And I also think I was hedging my bets in case I wasn't asked. Because if you say you don't want and you're not asked, no one's going to worry about it. If you say you want it and everyone thinks you should be maybe getting it and you don't get it, then that's a wholly totally different animal. You know. So like I think there was some self protection in it, but I did realize in that moment that I am ambitious, it's okay to be. And in fact I probably should be curating my career that way.
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You know, I'm thinking as you're describing that situation, the other scenario you described where you had a man on your team that was coming into your office. I mean, I'm sure he wouldn't be a helper, but I'm guessing also that those questions were somewhat self interested.
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They were, absolutely. And I gave him all the credit for that. I mean, and positively I thought he was doing what he should be doing.
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Well, and again, I think one of the things I want to get out of this conversation is to let people know that it is okay to be ambitious and to want the next thing and to ask for it.
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No. And I mean, I had a conversation with one of my managers once where I came in with a list of things I think I needed to work on to get to the next level. Now she said to me, the list, if, if the list was accurate because it had over 20 things on it, we would be having a different conversation. But we honed in on really what I needed, you know, to focus on to get to that next level. But I came in prepared. I wasn't looking for her to do certain things for me or to tell me. I came in with my thoughts and idea and I was like, this is how I want to proactively manage it. These are the types of assignments I think can get me there. This is the type of exposure I would like to have to have suggestions. And we went through it and we really came up with that game plan. But it was like you said, I think used the word vulnerable. Vulnerable enough to go in there and say, I think this is what I have to offer and I think this is what I need to get to that level.
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Well, and again, I think unless you're going to take that initiative and own your career, like you could be the best lawyer in the room, but people aren't sitting around waiting to say, oh, I want to give Sheila this job. I mean it just, just doesn't work that way. As a manager, as, as a, an in house leader, what should we be doing to encourage people to raise their hand?
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Well, I think There. There's two things. The first thing I would start with if someone has to want to advance. I had one gentleman on my team who never wanted to be a people manager. He was going to. He wanted to get to a certain level. He was excellent. And so we talked about what would be good for his development for someone who didn't want to be a people. So it's understanding what people want. It is talking to them honestly about what matters in the room, where compensation decisions are made and promotion decisions and explaining to them honestly where their strengths are and where their opportunities are for growth. And I never want someone to come to me and say, no one ever told me that. That to me, sort of as a manager would be a major failing.
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Yeah.
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You know, I would rather be very candid with you and have you change or decide not to change. But I want you to have the information so that you can make those efforts and some people go with it and some people don't. But all you can do as a manager is lay out the implications for deciding to take on things or not and being honest in the feedback about what they did well and what they didn't do well and what should change to get what they want.
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Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
And I'll say it's dependent on the leader. Through this podcast I've really associated, I've got to meet a lot of different lawyers in house. And you'd be maybe not surprised to hear how many people feel that their supervisor, their gc, doesn't want them to ask for things or doesn't see that developing them is part of the GC's job. I'm shocked by that, but apparently it's very common.
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Well, I had one GC who made it 40% of managers rating is how they developed their team. So that changed a little bit about how people were viewing it. But it was something I've always love to do. So to me it was important. And I also think it's not someone's. If you're not willing to listen to people about what they want and what they need, then it tells me you're not confident. By the way, the answer is not always yes. There are limited funds and resources and projects at organizations, and so sometimes the answer can't be yes to everything. But if you're having a mature conversation about what is and what isn't possible and you understand it and it may be, like I said, you're not in that high potential bucket. And if you're not in that high potential bucket, it's going to be Hard. So the conversation may be, how do I get into the high potential bucket? Not how do I get, you know, that strategic project? And so it's having those really honest conversations with people.
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Yeah.
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Sometimes there are blockers of companies too, you know, people are.
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Yes, yes. Again, really good. I hear that a lot.
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Stacey Bratcher
I hear that a lot.
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Sheila Murphy
My, my deputy or my GC is a blocker. I see somebody in, in those positions who is a blocker as somebody who lacks confidence in their own skills. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to give opportunities to Sheila because she's going to make me look bad.
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Right. She'll take, she'll get my job, she'll take my job. She'll do this. It's common. And I will tell you some of the best managers I had who were probably technically blockers. One of my former gcs would send me job openings at other companies when he knew I was blocked in or feeling it. He was like, you know, I don't want you to leave, but this opportunity could be terrific for you.
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Well, that's nice. That's better than I know.
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I viewed that as a positive. Yeah. You know, but also at the same point, that person was looking for ways, even if they couldn't promote me anymore, for me to have greater impact, you know, and things that would flesh out my resume. So if the blocker left or something happened, things would change up. So I think, you know, there are things you can do as a manager even in tight situations, but people have to be willing to hear what the feedback. I mean, the feedback.
- [27:01]
Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
You know, one of the things that happens in, you know, interviews is you're asked like, what is your greatest weakness? What is, you know, all these. And people don't. Again, lawyers don't want to say they have a weakness.
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No, but I work too hard.
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I work too hard. I'm perfect. You know, perfectionism. But the reason they ask that is they want to know that you're self aware and accountable and you can learn. And so if you don't give a real answer of something that you did or how to learn, it sort of says you're not those three things. And organizations want people who are accountable, self aware and learn.
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Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
Well, you mentioned, you know, kind of early in your career you describe something called whisper networks. What are those?
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Whisper networks are those networks of people that try to get you opportunities that may not be advertised internally. Sometimes the term might be sponsor, but you can have them externally. If you look at senior roles, I think 85% of them come from people's networks. It's really critical that you have what I call those people you can go to when you're looking to further develop your career or look for a new opportunity. Because it's not just, you know, being told about open positions at other companies. It's about getting past the robots. It's about maybe getting more speaking opportunities. It's about introductions to more senior people who would be benefit, would benefit your careers for you to know and have access to. And it's really. Especially when I'm talking to people who are in transition. Most of my clients get a lot of their interviews through their networks and people just feel icky about leveraging them. And it's really critical that you do. And sometimes the, you know, there's some research on this, why men do better at using their networks is men have looser, more looser connections. They have, you know, women's networks seem to be tighter and people they're close to. And so to go outside that tight group feels a little icky again. But there's some research that shows those looser connections actually lead to more opportunities. I had one woman who got several job opportunities by someone she had gone to law school with and had not spoken through to in 15 years. So it was just mustering up the courage, as she put it, to reach out to someone she hadn't reached out to. And he was open to it, and he actually went out of his way to help her.
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So how do you, you know, again, I, maybe this is a personal thing, but when you're trying to show I've got it all together here, you know, I'm, I'm doing great. How do you open the conversation? With one of those whisper folks.
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Okay, so it may be something as simple as, you know, I love the job I'm in right now. I am having great impact. I'm getting to some wonderful things. But I'm gonna be honest, I'm starting to get to that ceiling and I think that I need to go someplace where I can have even more. And this is what I'm thinking about and looking for. And be as specific as you can be with that. Because if you're vague, like, I want to advance, I want to do this, people don't remember what you're saying. So I'm looking for a deputy GC or a GC at a medium to large size pharma company on the east coast or I can't, you know, or it has to be in Chicago. What is it that you want to have. Are you willing to, to get the GC title? Do you want to be a fir, you know, the first gc? Do you need a staff? You know, really think about what it is that's important to you and let people know that. But if you're not like in transition, say you're not, you don't have to look. So this is really what you're trying to find? Yeah, like you don't have to grab the first thing, the first shiny object.
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You know, this is compare. In my mind. I'm comparing it. I talk to a lot of people in law school or, you know, college grads and they always, I just want a job. And that is the hardest question anyone can ask you. Like, I need something a little bit more specific so I can think about who I know or where to direct you.
- [31:15]
Right. And you know, and it goes the same thing. Like if you don't know who you are and what your strengths are as a leader, as a in house person, then you can't let people know what they are. You know, sometimes people like, well, I do everything. I'm, you know, I'm a Swiss army knife. I can do everything. That's fine. But what are you really good at? What? You know, because you, when you go in the interviews and if you say I can do everything, then it's sort of like you do nothing.
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Yeah, right.
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Stacey Bratcher
Yeah.
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Sheila Murphy
Well, which is hard though, like, because as the gc, you do have to be a Swiss army knife and you're sort of coached away from, from being a specialist. So that, that is, you know.
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Okay, I misspoke. I was thinking more of the special, the, the what I bring to the table that's different from outside of my legal expertise. So are you someone who's great at building organizations and teams? Are you someone who is a process nut? Are you a technology person? Are you a talent developer? Are you the commercial person that the GC wants next to them? Because you are so commercial. You know, I talked, I go on these hiking trips and last year I went on 2 and 1. I had a CEO who had a small sort of, not, not that small, probably medical startup. And he had just sold this company for zillions of dollars. And he was telling me how much he had hated his GC he had brought in.
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Oh my God.
- [32:39]
And because, Right, because. And he wouldn't, wasn't sure as he was starting his next venture if he would bring in somebody. And then I went on the next hiking trip and there was a Fortune 50 CEO who loved his GC and she was retiring soon and he was like talking to me because I knew her about her qualities and none of them had to do with the law.
- [33:00]
So what were the compare? What were the comparisons? What did the person that hated their GC say?
- [33:06]
Overly risk averse legalese, not commercially friendly, didn't come up with solutions. Everything was, no, we can't do this. Everything was expensive and overworked. The other one, he said, it's not her legal skills, I can get that elsewhere. But she understands the changing environment, regulatory society, what's going on can help people guide conversations leading in these issues. That can be so prickly as we have so many different views in this country and what's going on. And he had a very diverse management team in terms of thought leadership and how people were approaching things. But it was someone who could sort of help him navigate through these issues, keep the team together, even though these were hot issues and people had really strong views. But she was able to help him and the team navigate as a whole through it. And he just thought that was the most valuable skill.
- [34:05]
That's so interesting. I mean again, kind of to where we started that people, lawyers think that their job is to throw the risks out there, be the technical expert. And in your example, that was actually worked against that person.
- [34:22]
Yeah, that CEO would never recommend that person. Never let alone.
- [34:26]
That's terrible.
- [34:28]
And you know, he was a serial sort of entrepreneur type guy, you know, built these little companies, sold them for a lot of money and moved on. And that could have been like a, you know, sort of an annuity if you thought of it together where the other one was, you know, he thought knew she was a good lawyer, but he said it was everything else.
- [34:49]
Yeah, well, they assume you're a good lawyer, otherwise you don't get the job. It's really, how are you? You know. Again, as we started the conversation, it's more than that. Well, hey, our last question. This is my Goal Getter series and I've really enjoyed this conversation on how to help people advance in their career. But my last question is, and it sounds like you've been very focused and achieving your goals, but have you what is a goal that you've set that has eluded you?
- [35:18]
I have some clients globally. I would like to have a stronger presence globally. So I have like a client in London. I have, I've had a client in Paris and Greece and Colombia and Bermuda. But I would like to have more global clients. So that would be one of my things I'm working on all right.
- [35:36]
Well, to that end, where can people find you? Sheila?
- [35:40]
You can find me on LinkedIn, Sheila Murphy, Focus Forward Consulting or you can go to my website, www.focus-forward-consulting.com. and I do put out a bi monthly newsletter on GC Power Moves that has a lot of exercises. So if you're trying to accelerate your career, I would recommend signing up for that.
- [35:59]
Well, awesome. Thanks so much for being here. Really enjoyed it.
- [36:02]
Thank you.
- [36:05]
Hey, before you go, if you want
- [36:07]
Stacey Bratcher
more content from the legal department, check out TLD Goal Getter on Substack. It's a mix of free and subscription based content to help you level up your career. That's TLD Goal Getter on Substack.
- [36:21]
Sheila Murphy
Hope you check it out.