Goal Getter: Look Back To Go Forward With Michael Melcher, CEO M2 Leaders And Author Of "Your Invisible Network" [E88]

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Legal Department

Episode: Goal Getter: Look Back To Go Forward With Michael Melcher, CEO M2 Leaders And Author Of "Your Invisible Network"
Host: Stacy Bratcher
Guest: Michael Melcher
Date: February 24, 2026

Overview

This episode of The Legal Department—part of the “Goal Getter” series—focuses on a reflective, meaningful approach to career and personal goal setting. Host Stacy Bratcher is joined by executive coach and author Michael Melcher to discuss how lawyers and busy professionals can leverage the “look back” method to set more authentic, effective goals for the year ahead. Melcher offers candid insights, practical exercises, and encourages listeners to rethink their relationship with achievement, progress, and networking.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pitfalls of Conventional Goal Setting

• Conventional approach: At the start of each year, most professionals make to-do lists or set generic resolutions.
• Melcher’s critique: These lists often lack context and may not align with individual identity or actual needs.
  • “When we just make a list of what we think we should do on or near January 1st, they tend to lack context. They might not really be tied to who we are, who we’ve been, and they may lack the insight that can come from a deeper sort of reflection.” —Michael Melcher (02:11)

2. The “Look Back” Method

• Core exercise: Review the past year week by week, using a calendar as a prompt, and jot down meaningful experiences, milestones, or patterns.
• Process:
  • Use physical tools like a big sheet of paper and colored markers to organize thoughts.
  • Note both large and small events, evaluating not just what happened but what those experiences meant emotionally or professionally.
• Insight:
  • This exercise provides a holistic view of the year, revealing both how time was spent and what impact or meaning those activities held.
  • “I just kind of arrange things as they come to me... I’m just noting down what appears to be meaningful to me. And it might be meaningful because it was fun or exciting... Or it might be that it just is a fact and it doesn’t have much emotional resonance to me.” —Michael Melcher (03:17-04:45)

Practical Tips:

• Focus on both events and how you spent your time globally (04:45-06:25).
• Look for meaning or skill gained from activities, not just the activity itself (06:25-07:45).

3. Challenging Professional “Shoulds” and Defining Meaning

• Peer pressure in legal careers: There’s an expectation to pursue certain professional status markers—speaking at conferences, joining boards, etc.—which may not bring personal fulfillment.
• Claiming your own goals:
  • Melcher and Bratcher discuss questioning the "shoulds" and aligning your time and pursuits with genuine personal and professional interests.
  • “We’re all captains of our own destiny and we’re allowed to pursue the things that give us meaning, which may not be the things that we thought we were supposed to pursue.” —Michael Melcher (09:28)

4. Recency Bias & Feelings as Data

• Recency bias: We overvalue recent experiences when reflecting on the year, ignoring important earlier moments or lessons (11:17-13:36).
  • “It’s just a very straightforward thing. Like let's not... only focus on recent data. There were things in spring or summer that were important. Also, insights don’t stay with you unless you remind yourself of them.” —Michael Melcher (11:35)
• Feelings as data:
  • Emphasizes the importance of seeing feelings as just one input, not the sole guide for decision-making.
  • Journaling can help contextualize and track shifting anxieties or judgments over time.
  • Melcher’s “Fear Diary” as a humorous and balancing practice (15:06-15:49).

5. Turning Reflection into Actionable Goals

• From reflection to planning:
  • Phase 1: Data collection (calendar review)
  • Phase 2: Theming—identify 5-10 key themes, such as personal progress, professional achievements, or values lived.
  • Phase 3: Goal setting—translate themes into specific goals for the year (16:24-20:17).
• Example:
  • Realizing you value travel as a family can inform whether to prioritize more trips, balance with other family goals, or invest elsewhere.
  • Reflection reveals foundation-building in business or personal pursuits, guiding where to focus future efforts (17:41-19:17).

6. Permission to Enjoy & Lean into Fulfillment

• Not all goals require struggle:
  • Melcher counters the “always stretch” mentality—lawyers are especially prone to putting duty above preference.
  • “To simply identify what you actually like to do for pleasure and then to own that and make time for it... maybe that’s the growth.” —Michael Melcher (22:04-22:49)
• Distinguishing “real wants” from “shoulds”:
  • Sometimes “I love X but never do it” is a signal to check if that’s a latent should or an actual desire (22:57-23:08).

7. The Look Back Method & Long-Term Goals

• Short-term vs. long-term:
  • The same reflective process can uncover deep, sometimes hidden, long-term goals (BHAGs—Big, Hairy, Audacious Goals).
  • Personal story: Melcher’s realization that fatherhood was his true BHAG, even if it wasn’t immediately visible or expressible (24:08-25:17).
  • Sometimes, looking back illuminates what you’ve truly been working toward, even unconsciously.

8. Building and Nurturing Your Invisible Network

• Networking as a goal:
  • Lawyers often set “networking” goals but need structured ways to activate “weak ties.”
  • Two exercises:
    1. List people you’ve lost touch with—segment by life/career stage and create a master list.
    2. Make a “bid” to deepen connection with 10 new or lesser-known people—a small gesture, like a message, article, or invitation.
  • “It is all about these bids and being willing to go first and being okay with going first, knowing they might not respond, although they often do.” —Michael Melcher (28:34)

9. The Power of Doing the “Look Back” With Others

• Annual group practice:
  • For over a decade, Melcher has reviewed his year and set goals with two friends—sharing calendars and themes, offering accountability and outside perspective.
  • Conversation helps generate insights and clarifies true priorities (29:57-32:51).
  • “When you’re talking to somebody and they’re going through their list, you are really tracking their energy... when you talked about building a sandcastle with your nephew, your eyes sort of lit up. So what’s that about?” —Michael Melcher (32:27)

10. Progress, Not Perfection: Persistent, Elusive Goals

• Acknowledging incremental improvements:
  • Melcher shares his perennial goal: more structure and habits for his kids. Year after year, progress has happened, albeit not perfectly.
  • The method helped him reframe frustration into recognition of progress—a valuable shift for any persistent resolution (33:05-34:59).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On process and self-insight:
  • “Our lives are a body of work in many different ways. And so before we start writing the next chapter, why not take a look at what we’ve done so far and see if that offers some insight?” —Michael Melcher (02:37)
• On recency bias:
  • “We have a bias toward seeing our feelings as real... my feelings go all over the place. And what I’m experiencing today is not the same thing as what I was experiencing August 5th at 10:00am.” —Michael Melcher (12:30)
• On seeking help and connection:
  • “People don’t do goal setting by themselves because they have shame or fear. I think it’s just never occurred to them to do it with somebody else.” —Michael Melcher (30:28)
• On intentionality and fulfillment:
  • “It’s our dutifulness that kind of gets us in trouble. So to simply identify what you actually like to do for pleasure and then to own that and make time for it... maybe that’s the growth.” —Michael Melcher (22:27)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:---|:---| | 02:11 | Critique of January goal-setting habits | | 03:17 | How to do the “Look Back” exercise | | 06:25 | Assigning meaning to events, not just time spent | | 11:17 | On recency bias and its effect on goal setting | | 15:06 | Using “Fear Diary” to manage feelings and anxiety | | 16:24 | Moving from notes to themes and then to actionable goals | | 22:04 | Permission to pursue goals you enjoy, not just difficult ones | | 24:08 | Using the method for long-term/BHAG goals | | 26:07 | Practical exercises for maintaining your network | | 29:57 | The power of reviewing goals and progress with friends | | 32:27 | How outside perspectives can clarify your real wants | | 33:05 | Persistent goals and progress as a parent |

Takeaways & Action Steps

• Before setting goals, review the past year in detail; look for emotional impact and patterns, not just milestones.
• Transform reflections into 5-10 themes, then set concrete goals derived from those insights.
• Fight recency bias—your whole year offers lessons and achievements, not just the last quarter.
• Give yourself permission to pursue enjoyable, fulfilling goals—not every objective must be maximally challenging.
• Use structured outreach (“bids”) to deepen or maintain professional relationships.
• Consider doing the “look back” exercise with trusted friends or colleagues for enhanced insight and accountability.
• Recognize and honor incremental progress, especially with persistent, challenging goals.

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For more:

• Read Michael Melcher’s book, Your Invisible Network.
• Listen to his previous appearance on episode 24 of The Legal Department.
• Subscribe to the TLD Goal Getter newsletter on Substack for more practical tools and inspiration.

Transcript

[A]

This episode of the Legal Department is part of the Goal Getter series where we talk about how to build a career you actually want instead of flying on autopilot. If you've been feeling stuck at work, this episode is for you.

[B]

My name is Michael Melcher. I'm an executive coach and CEO of M2Leaders. And my fun fact is that when I was 13 years old and living in Scottsdale, Arizona, every day I used my mom's Selectric 2 typewriter and worked on a novel. It was about a family of millionaires living in Manhattan, even though I'd never been to Manhattan and had never met a millionaire.

[A]

Welcome to the Legal Department, a podcast for lawyers who want to learn, connect, and grow their careers. I'm Stacey Bratcher. I'm a general counsel, and I'm excited to share these conversations to help you level up in house on today's episode of the Legal Department. I'm beyond thrilled to welcome back for a second time author of youf Invisible Network and CEO of coaching firm M2Leaders, Michael Melcher. Hi, Michael. How are you?

[B]

Hey, Stacey. I'm really happy to be back on your excellent podcasts, and I'm really good today. I'm thriving in the cold Eastern weather.

[A]

Well, it's a little chilly in Santa Barbara. It's about 62. You know, we're trying to muddle through. It's rough. It's rough. Well, I reached out to have you back on the show. I'm doing a series focused on career progression and goals. I call it Goal Getter. And you put out a newsletter, which I always look forward to. And you described goal setting in the context of sort of the new year as we're doing it wrong. You know, many of us get out our patent paper January 1st and make our to DOS. We're going to, you know, eat more vegetables, exercise every day, and, you know, go for that promotion. But you have a different approach, and so I thought that would be an interesting thing to share. So tell me about why making a list isn't the right way to do it.

[B]

Yeah, well, I'm all into goals. I love goals. I love self improvement. The question is, what will make an effective goal? What will make something the right goal? And when we just make a list of what we think we should do on or near January 1st, they tend to lack context. They might not really be tied to who we are, who we've been, and they may lack the insight that can come from a deeper sort of reflection. So the way I like to think about it is Our lives are a body of work in many different ways. And so before we start writing the next chapter, why not take a look at what we've done so far and see if that offers some insight?

[A]

Okay. So it's funny, do a lot of reflection sort of in the moment, but I hadn't really thought about kind of a look back as you describe it, as a way to set goals for the new year or for the future. So can you describe what the look back method is?

[B]

Sure. And I want to start by just emphasizing how forward looking we tend to be, particularly in the United States. It's almost like we're leaning into the wind going to the next challenge. And that's good. That is actually a good skill. It accomplishes a lot, kind of keeps the energy going, but it's a bit incomplete by itself. And so the look back is we take a look back over the past year. I recommend getting out of your calendar and start with last January and go week by week. Okay, what was going on Mid January, February, March and so forth. And as you do this, you jot down notes. I like to take a big white piece of paper and use colored markers. And I just kind of arrange things as they come to me. It's not a dictation. I'm not taking shorthand here. I'm not trying to get everything. I'm just noting down what appears to be meaningful to me. And it might be meaningful because it was fun or exciting and I'm going to write about it very colorfully in big letters. Or it might be that I write in tiny ballpoint pen because it sort of justifacts. And it's what I did for a long time, but it doesn't have much emotional resonance to me. And so you go through the whole year this way and it doesn't actually take that long. It takes time. It takes probably between 20 and 60 minutes, I would say, to kind of look through, but you can do it. And then you get a really different view on like, what the heck was I up to this past year?

[A]

So is it about like events or. Because I'm thinking, you know, if I was going through my calendar, I was at this conference, met with this networking group, I went to this many dinners or look at my work calendar. And 80% of my time is in meetings. And this many one on ones, is it focused on like the big things that you did or how you spent your time just sort of globally?

[B]

Oh, that's a really good question. I think you'll get both. I think first of all, you'll get a sense of how you did spend your time. Like, wow, I spent six hours every day in meetings. Or I spent probably an hour every single night trying to get my sons to go to bed. It's like dead time. Right.

[A]

Wow, look at you. You're. You're efficient for.

[B]

Oh, is that efficient? Thank you, Doug. Good to start with that. Or, oh, I have this many clients that I forgot about. So you get a sense of what you've been doing and how you've been spending the time, but you also get a sense of what the meaning of that was. So let's say you spent 100 hours, one month working on transaction, but then as you're reviewing it, you're like, that was totally badass. Like, I got to a whole new level of responsibility there. Or I was really anxious, anticipating it, and it turned out really well. Or I met two key people on that. Or possibly that was a terrible, awful experience. I never want to do that again. Right. So you're kind of getting meaning and you're feeling feelings. You will definitely be surprised at some of the stuff you've done. Like, oh, I forgot about that whole. Whole thing. Right. So it's both that you are kind of getting the litany of how you spent your time, and then what are these standout activities that you had? So that's really what the value is.

[A]

I like that. Framing around. What meaning did I get out of it? Because as you were talking about, just. Let's just say the transaction. I very rarely have said, oh, well, I did this, and I developed a deeper relationship with Michael, or I learned this skill. Like, I don't think that I have reflected on maybe what I've gotten out of a work experience, necessarily.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, an example would be I took my sons to Asia this summer. We went to Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. It was a very ambitious.

[A]

I was just gonna. That was the word immediately.

[B]

That came about three weeks. I had some help. I have. We had kind of a traveling babysitter who works with us sometimes, but, you know, it was very ambitious, and there's tons of jet lag, and I was fighting my kids over their devices the whole time, and, you know, just trying to keep it together. This costs a lot of money, but I was very aware of all the different experiences we had. But when I was looking back at was more like, we're a family that takes trips, you know, and my kids definitely have this certain level of sophistication they did not have before. And it's more it became a sort of identity thing for me. Yeah, this is kind of what I do. And I like to arrange my life this way as opposed to what did we really accomplish on this trip? And did I get great photos and did we see all the things we're supposed to see? So it's a subtle shift in how I understand it.

[A]

Yeah. Interesting. So I was talking to a. With a GC friend of mine, and you work with a lot of lawyers and you are a recovering lawyer yourself, so I'm sure you're familiar with sort of this. For those of us who are trying to be seen, there's kind of this expectation or pressure. I'm going to go speak at conferences, I'm going to be on panels, et cetera. And my friend who's leading a really large organization said, you know what? I'm not going to do that anymore. And I was both in awe and aghast at that comment because I do think we all hold certain expectations about the shoulds. And her perspective was, I don't need that. So as you're talking about we're a family that travels or we love travel, I think it's important for us to kind of question what is the meaning, as you said, of the things that we're spending our time on.

[B]

What's interesting, the example you gave, because just responding to sounds to me like both are true for you. You think you should do those conferences and you're sort of aghast and you're kind of still working through it. And she kind of made her conclusion and you're like, well, it's funny on the travel, because an additional meaning was that travel is not always easy. It's not for the meek. There are some really difficult moments. And it wasn't so much like, oh, we travel and it's amazing. It's more like, no, for me, it's important enough that I will put up with what we need to put up with in order to have this experience. This is not an experience other people would want necessarily, but it has a lot of meaning for me personally, and so I can kind of claim it for myself.

[A]

Yeah, I get that. And as you're talking, I'm. I'm feeling some of the friction in travel, you know, especially with. With kids. So that's really cool that prioritizing that.

[B]

If I can say one more thing, and this is something our friend Gretchen Rubin sometimes says that you don't necessarily like the things other people like, and other people don't necessarily think like the things that you like. And so when it comes to goals, this is another reason to look back because, you know, we're all captains of our own destiny and we're allowed to pursue the things that give us meaning, which may not be the things that we thought we were supposed to pursue. And I think that particularly for people who are working intense professional sector jobs, 40, 50, 60, 100 hours a week, it's not unusual. It's a lot of very concentrated time doing something. And just because it's a lot of time doesn't mean it's bad. It might be very fulfilling or it might not actually be where you're at, or there's something about the way you're doing it that you want to shift or you may have already been discovering that you are making these shifts and changes. And even though you still have a long way to go, this is an opportunity to value and acknowledge the progress you've already made.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's really a great perspective. I just, as you were talking, I was thinking back again to sort of this idea of expectations in the professional realm that, you know, speaking on conferences, aspire to be on corporate boards at some point in my career and have served on not a lot of nonprofit boards and have moved off. You know, you spend years and years doing something and at one point it was, there was a reason to do it. And all of a sudden you're 10 years in and you're like, well, I'm not getting, I'm not contributing the way I'd like and I'm not getting out of it what I'd like. But without taking that pause and reflecting to say, is this how I want to spend my time? Am I getting meaning out of this? I think you're just going to keep going forward.

[B]

Yeah, it's a good moment to make those choices.

[A]

So I want to talk about, in your newsletter you coined, not you didn't coin something, but the phrase you used was recency bias. So that we all are sort of conditioned about what happened in the last week, month or whatever is how it's always been. Talk more about that. And how does that hinder our ability to set goals?

[B]

Well, it's just more present. Right. So let's say Thanksgiving to now is very present in my mind, but it's a limited data set. Right. Because there was also a six week period from March to May or any other period. And why would I not look at that? Right. And so it's just a very straightforward thing. Like let's not. I probably gained three pounds over Christmas okay, does that mean, like, I'm a huge pig and need to go on a diet now? Like, if I look more holistically at my health, I can sort of see everything that went on last year. Right. And again, often there were things that you did in spring or summer that were really important to you that you might want to continue. There were lessons you might have learned in July or August that, you know, you can have this, a great insight, and then actually, insights don't stay with you if you don't remind yourself of them. So it. This simple exercise is a way to. It's not ignoring what happened recently, but it's just kind of balancing it with everything else. And I would also say that we have a bias toward seeing our feelings as real, you know, and word on the street is that younger generations take their feelings even more seriously as a guide to action. And you may be surprised, but I'm skeptical about feelings as a guide to further action because my feelings go all over the place. And what I'm experiencing today is not the same thing as what I was experiencing. You know, August 5th at 10:00am Right. And you get a little detachment when you can just put it all, take it out of your head and put it all on a piece of paper and then see how it all lines up and how it relates to each other.

[A]

So I definitely believe, and I've experienced the younger generation is all about the feels, as they say. Right. But it. Feelings are data. Right. I mean, it is some sort of feedback. So are you able, when you're looking back, to capture what was happening at that, like, you know, in May and August versus here we are in January. Like, as you do that, are you able to kind of put the feelings in context?

[B]

Sure. And I think you're putting it in context with other feelings that you've had too. Right. So I've had moments where I might walk down a certain street that I walked down 20 years ago, and I will have this instant flashback at how I felt. Right. Okay. So that's something that's carried with me. But I have also had moments where something I was so bollocks of about something that was going on, and I'm like, what was that? That was like a 0.5 on a scale of 1 to 10. Why did I get so upset about it? Right. So it's. Yes, it's data, but there's been a lot of data throughout the year. And it's just, let's put all the data together and look at as sort of a map and Then kind of see where that takes us and you have a choice of what you want to see as meaningful.

[A]

Yeah, I like that. You know, one thing I've done since I been working with a coach for, I don't know, six, seven years, something like that, and I keep a little journal of those interactions because it's gold, right? You're just learning so much. And what I've started doing is when I do big professional events, like a conference, like a speech or whatever, I will write reflections right after or even a family trip, what did I like? What was the perspective I got? And it's helpful because as you're saying, sort of. Well, at least for. I'll just speak for myself. What I remember is the current feels from the last quarter or whatever maybe, you know, and it. That recency bias for me actually is very prevalent. So I need to have something in writing that can take me back and say, oh, yeah, this is what you really thought.

[B]

I like it. Well, I have a funny Evernote file called Michael's Fear Diary where since like 2014, when I have some random fear, I'll write it down. Not always, but often. They often relate to health, but other sorts of things. And it is freaking hilarious to read back on all the early warning signs of cancer or whatever I thought I was having. You know, like, I'm like, oh, okay, this is how my mind operates. And then if I get scared again, I just kind of look back at what I've written over the last 12 years that in most cases not come true. So it's a nice balancing out. I highly recommend that exercise too.

[A]

Have you had any predictions? Have any of those fears materialized?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

One was, I mean, I started it during the pregnancy for my children, which is a high risk pregnancy. So I was kind of freaked out to begin with. No, generally speaking, like, I did not. Let's cut the part. Yeah, nothing has really come true. It's just sort of amusing to see how my feelings flow and then their predictable occurrence.

[A]

Yeah, that's great. It's like a little anxiety drawer. You can just stick it in there.

[B]

Anxiety drawer.

[A]

I like that. So once we have you talk about writing it all out. I love the markers. That brings a some fun to the whole process. Once you have a picture of the year that was, how do you then decide, like, this is what I want to do. These are my goals for the next year.

[B]

Right. So that was part one, you just jot down the data. Part two is you look at it. Okay, what themes do I see what overall trends, what lessons, what observations. And that's very interesting because that's how you're kind of tying together all the data. And you might see progress on certain things, you might see lack of movement on others. You might get a reflection of what your real values were or how well you've been living your values. And I think yeah, anywhere from five to ten themes you'll come up with. It's usually fairly straightforward and it gives you a real sense of satisfaction like oh, this is what actually happened this last year.

[A]

So if you're Asia trip and we're a family that travels, so does that mean like for the new year, like you're thinking about another ambitious trip or you have sort of over the next three years I'd like to take the kids to X number of countries. Like how does just to make, let's have an example of how that theme can be carried forward.

[B]

Well, it could go that way, it could go the other way too. It could be like, all right, we really live this value of being a family that travels and put a lot of investment and therefore this year maybe we'll spend some more time chilling out or focusing on other things. Right? So like one thing that I'm always working on or trying to work on since it's not me, is my kids education, getting them to read more, to apply themselves in school, to have a real childhood, not a device oriented childhood along with like behavior and all this sort of stuff. And okay, maybe I'm going to focus on that, right? So it's like the themes kind of tell you where you're at or for example, like I started a new coaching company about three years ago and one of the themes was all right, I have a good foundation now. I've put in the foundations for it, have the systems of people. And at this point I am doubling down on business development, which means reaching out to lots of people, talking to companies and law firms and you know, large nonprofits about coaching and that type of thing. But it meant a lot like okay, I'm not starting from zero, I'm not even starting 50%. I've got a lot to work with and that is a really different position than I was in previous years. And knowing that then makes a difference in terms of how I choose to use my energies going forward.

[A]

I like that you and before we got on and we were talking about the body of work and I think that maybe that's something to get out of. This reflection is what have you contributed to your body of work?

[B]

Yeah, right. It could be your career, it could be your family, it could be your health and what have you. And more just specifically on the literary side, I've written a couple books and I have this newsletter that has been a bit sporadic where I share different types of relationship building and leadership ideas and talk about what I'm reading. And I find it very enjoyable. It takes a lot of time. It takes like eight hours to write one of these emails, I would say. But I enjoyed it. It's really one of my core values. And so that then I observed how much I got from it, and then that turned into one of my further goals, to spend more time on that and make it more of a core action, because that is a body of work that I want to keep on building. People might read it or not, it might turn into something else or not, but for me, it's enough of value that I want to keep doing it right. And so I got that through this exercise. So part one is you look at your calendar. Part two is you write out the themes. And then part three is based on that. What would I like my goals to be for this year?

[A]

Okay, so let's talk about. And let's just get some examples with those themes. Like, how do you reduce it? Like, I'm just trying. Let's maybe use an example of somebody who enjoyed going to conferences, speaking, networking, and the themes. I mean, I'll just speak for myself. What I like about those things really is connecting with people. And that's, you know, why I do this show, is I really enjoy the connection. So if that was a theme that came through, how would we use that to set a goal for me for the new year?

[B]

Sure. Well, it's wherever you want to take it. So it might be. It was great. Let's do more of them. So this coming year, I'd like to go to six conferences. You might look at what you want to do there. Perhaps you want to push yourself to have a higher profile. So I'll go to six conferences, and I'm going to put in proposals at two of them to be on a panel, which maybe is a stretch for me. Or alternately, maybe you don't want to do any panel things. You're like, you know, I'm going to six conferences, and I'm going to use each of them as an opportunity to deepen my connections with people I like. So maybe I will organize a dinner or lunch at each one and I'll invite people ahead of time, or maybe I'll go to those conferences. And I'm going to meet five new people at each one. Those are my goals. Or I'm going to pick the conferences that are in destinations I want to go to. So, no to Dayton. Sorry, yes. Honolulu kind of thing. Or vice versa. No.

[A]

No offense to the Ohioans that may be listening.

[B]

I was born in Ohio. Yeah. You can make it what you want. Right. And not. Things don't always have to be stretches. You can, you're allowed to do things you just like doing. Or you can decide, I'm really going to push myself more to do all this.

[A]

Thanks for giving permission for that, by the way, because I do. And you sort of talked about, you know, in the US we're just driving forward into the oncoming wind, that it's okay to have a goal. That's something that you like and that's easy for you. Right? Like.

[B]

Well, particularly for people who listen to your podcast. No one is more dutiful than the lawyer.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. It's our dutifulness that kind of gets us in trouble. So to simply identify what you actually like to do for pleasure and then to own that and make time for it against whatever pressures of a billable nature or other nature you have, maybe that's the growth because it's taking responsibility for what you love and what your pleasure is.

[A]

Yeah, it's always. I'm always sad when people talk about, I love doing this, but I never get to do it. And it's sort of like, well, when is that going to happen?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, as a coach, it's interesting because I would also say, well, do you really love doing it? Because people often, they do things they love. Maybe that's a should. And there might be something else that you would like doing more.

[A]

Yeah. Ooh, that's heavy.

[B]

Heavy.

[A]

Whoa, heavy.

[B]

Take that one offline.

[A]

Does. Does the look back. Can you use the look back method to set long term career goals?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's not specifically focused on long term, but why not? Like, you can use the same insights into thinking about your long term goals. You may have them already and it's a way to track progress against them. Maybe you don't have long term goals. That itself could be a goal to create a long term goal, or sometimes your long term goal may be kind of in front of you and you're not even aware of it. Right. So there is this term in business called bhag. It means big, hairy, audacious goal. I believe Jim Collins was the first one who came out with it. And it's A big transformative type of goal, and a company can have it and an individual can have it. And I remember about 12, 14 years ago, I was talking to another coach I knew I was talking in a vague way about professional goals. And she's like, michael, you don't have a bhag. I'm like, you're right, I don't have a bhag. Why don't I have a bhag? And then within three to four years, I realized what my bhag was. My bhag was to become a father. And as a gay man, it just wasn't the most obvious thing to do. And it was so important to me that I almost did not talk about it, or I didn't let on how important it was because I wasn't sure it could really happen. And then once it happened, it was clear that that was, for me, the most important thing and that I had been kind of gearing up for it in different ways. And then, I mean, it still is a pretty big goal, whether I want it to be or not. But in a way, once I did that, I had more opening for other things. So my children were maybe five when I started writing your Invisible Network or the early stages. Right. So I had some more space for that kind of thing. So it's funny, your most massive goal might be right in front of you, and perhaps everybody else could see it, but not you, which is another heavy, heavy, heavy. We're doing. We're heavy, heavy at light heavy stuff today.

[A]

The legal department. Yeah, in the legal department, yeah. Well, thanks for opening the door again to your amazing book. I consult it quite frequently. I want to talk about, you know, maybe a little more granular, some people. And I actually did an episode at the beginning of the year about another goal episode, and we were talking about the N word. Networking goals and building networks and relationships are frequent goals for people. Especially, you know, lawyers are trying to build a book of business or somebody trying to solve a problem. The book has such great exercises that, you know, the 20 minutes a day I think, are just brilliant. But I was wondering if we could just. On this. I don't know if there's anything that we could talk about that. An exercise for people to work on their. Their weak ties, which is sort of where the gold is, as I understand it, for relationships.

[B]

Yes. So there are two types of weak ties. There are people who you once knew, who you've fallen out of touch with, and then there are people that you don't know very well. Maybe you met them once or you communicated online. So I'll give you two different exercises for the first category of people you'd fallen out of touch with. I think it's great to make an inventory of who are all these people. So make different categories. Category one, law school. Category two, college. Category three, first job. Second job, clients. People you might know through civic organizations or athletic organizations. People you might know through your spouse or partner. If you have children, that's a gold mine. Like what the other parents do. And kind of keep on adding the categories and just list the name and don't worry about the next step, about how you reach out to them. Just kind of people who you either like or seem kind of fun. You'd like to know them better or maybe impressive in some way just to have those names there, because that is your invisible network. They already exist. And then later you can figure out what you want to do for the new people. The newbie ties where you don't know them very well. Make a goal to make the next bid for 10 people. Okay, so a bid is a communication where you're essentially saying, let's take this to the next level. So you said, hey, Michael, would you like to come on my podcast again? That's a bid because we're doing the podcast, but we're also deepening our relationship. Hey, so and so I enjoyed meeting you at the NALP conference. I may be in Atlanta later this spring. I would love to connect. Okay. They might say yes, they might be no, but it's a bit, hey, so and so. Let's find a time to chat and catch up. Right. You can even send what I call a ping. So that is just a thinking of you type thing, like a photo or even a meme for someone you haven't don't know very well. You might say, find an article that's useful or white paper. Oh, we spoke about something related to AI at that panel we were on. I wonder if you've seen this article from the Journal. I found it really educational. Hope you're well. Right. That's not even asked. But it is making that bid. So this is one of the key things I learned in writing this whole book. It is all about these bids and being willing to go first and being okay with going first, knowing that they might not respond, although they often do. And if you make a goal of 10, it's going to be more. It's easier to do because some of those will respond, maybe not all 10. It's not like just sending one and then you're waiting for the phone to ring.

[A]

Yeah, those are great. Those are great. I can't say enough about the book. It is a very first of all, your writing is very clear and human. Like you're very, very approachable. And then it's very tangible, like what people do or what people should do, these exercises. So I really wanted to just highlight that because I know I talk to people all the time. Oh, Stacy, you have this great network and I do, but it's because I love connecting with people and I like doing those reach outs. And in my experience, most of the time, if you make a bid, people will accept it, and if they don't, that's okay. You have a list of however many others. So going back, just on the look back one more time, you wrote about having an annual practice of doing this process with others and sitting down with friends. Talk about that, because I think many of us sort of like go in our little hole and like, we're very private about our feelings and our goals, et cetera. So tell me about working with others on this.

[B]

Well, for maybe 15 years, I have done this once a year with my friends Marcy and Gretchen, who are also former lawyers. And we just did it, I think, as a lark the first time. And we really got a lot out of it. So we do it in stages. Okay, now let's pull out our calendars and we'll kind of sit there quietly and, and I'll come up with the themes. They'll say, okay, what did you notice? And we'll share. We time it because we can talk a lot. It's really fun. We can respond or weigh in or ask questions and it really just keeps it going. I respond very well to accountability, so I probably would do some form of goal setting by myself. But I will definitely do it if it's on my calendar to do it. You know, you're acknowledging the value of it if it's on the calendar and going to somebody's house to sit down or even a zoom call. So for those of you who are interested, just think of someone who seems kind of open minded about this sort of thing and say, hey, I want to do this goal setting exercise I heard about. You want to do it with me? I think it'll take like a couple hours of writing and chatting and there will be somebody who does that. Because people don't do goal setting by themselves because they have shame or fear. I think it's just never occurred to them to do it with somebody else. And like, well, how would you set that up. And this is like an easy method

[A]

that people can follow. Do you find that your friends help push you or do they help you find insights as you're. And meaning as you're going through the process?

[B]

I feel like conversation is always a way to get insights. And they might push me and I might accept it or say, no, I'm not gonna do that, but here's what I'm gonna do. Like, it's more ideas. It's like when I find that when I'm writing long pieces, interviewing is really helpful to me. And it's not simply hearing what other people say. It's. I hear myself talking to them. And that gives me more ide. So it kind of extroverts my thinking in a really useful way. I enjoy writing. I'm a pretty good writer. But other methods of communicating and thinking are equally valuable for me.

[A]

I do. I have a friend that we get together and kind of review what our goals are going to be for the year. And we did that recently, and I was sort of saying, like, are you really going to do that? You know, do you really want to do that? Or is this like, you think, is it a shoulder?

[B]

I think that's a great question for a friend to ask because a friend has seen you and you're asking in a nice way and you know, they'll decide for themselves, but sometimes it gives you permission. Yeah, maybe. I. I don't really want to do that, but it's.

[A]

It seems like you should. Right? Like I should meet 30 people. I should.

[B]

What. What's kind of interesting is, like, when you're talking to somebody and they're going through their list, you are really tracking their energy. And so you said. Yeah, when you said you were going to sign up for a Pilates program, you sounded a little dread. But when you talked about building a sandcastle with your nephew, your eyes sort of lit up. So what's that about?

[A]

Right, Right. So, yeah, the outer accountability and just a sounding board, I think, is a good, good advice. So final question. Is there. If so, what is a persistent goal or resolution that's always on the list but eludes you?

[B]

I'm glad you asked this question because I really gave it some thought. Every single year for a number of years, I have got to get my act together with my children in terms of rules and habits and exact screen time and reading and bedtime. And I feel like I don't have any of that. Like, I feel it's very unstructured. Although I also think I'm an amazing father. So I'm holding different ideas in my head. So. But, you know, I'm a single dad. I have twin sons. They are so, so, so energetic. Nothing like my own childhood. So I did this exercise, and what I concluded is I've actually made a lot of progress here.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Like, I took away their iPads for all of fifth grade. I gave them four months notice to do that. And, you know, I've tried other things that haven't worked, but we play more board games now, and they read when they're on the city bus, and they still try to grab my laptop and watch these stupid YouTube clips, but it has made progress. And so I'm like, okay, this is okay. I'm building. It's a body of work. I'm building my body of work. And yes, probably it would be good if they had chores that were assigned to them and they understood what they were. And you don't get a sweet dessert, like, every single night on demand. Or we don't stop at Dunkin Donuts every time we pass one. Like, you know, still working on those. I kind of realized I am following my own method because I've made a lot more progress than I would have been conscious of, because my feelings right now are. Last night, it took them an hour to get to bed, and it was just like yelling and flying across the room and screaming. I'm like, just go to bed. And had I made a goal in that moment, it would have been decontextualized because I would not have been able to draw on everything else that has come up. So what a great person listening to your podcast who has these experiences.

[A]

Well, and I think I told you that. Great job. At an hour, the bedtime is like, you know, it's on. It's on.

[B]

You know, I love being a parent. I. It's not for everybody. And not everybody had the blessing I did. So I try not to overdo it when I'm talking to other people, but I will say to my colleagues, like, they don't have children. Like, one thing you don't quite understand is how many hours a day are not under control anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, nothing is happening while I'm trying to put my children to bed. Nothing. And the other thing is that you might have your, you know, somebody at work who rubs you the wrong way. They're so annoying. But my children, I love them to death. My sons are my greatest antagonists every single day. It is constantly pushing against resistance on everything. And mostly, when you go to work, you deal with adults who are mostly aligned with the program.

[A]

I've heard, I've heard.

[B]

That is my discovery.

[A]

I have heard myself say I don't talk to anyone else in my life like I talk to you. You know, like, like we don't have. Like nobody else treats me this way. Well, Michael, thanks for being here. If people want more from Michael Melcher, check out episode 24 of the legal department and really his amazing book your Invisible Network is a must have on your bookshelf. So Michael, thanks for coming back again. Appreciate it.

[B]

It was a pleasure being here. And I will repeat that you are one of the best prepared podcast hosts I know.

[A]

Oh, thank you. Hey, before you go, if you want more content from the legal department, check out TLD Goal Getter on Substack. It's a mix of free and subscription based content to help you level up your career. That's TLD Goalgetter on Substack. Hope you check it out.