Matthew Baker, a partner at Saul Ewing LLP, discusses the nuances of trust and estate litigation for attorneys. He explains why empathy is a litigator's most underrated tool, how to build a referral-based practice, and why even lawyers at large firms should take control of their own marketing. Matthew also shares his hands-on experience with AI tools like ChatGPT and Co-Counsel, offering a practical look at how technology is reshaping the practice of law for litigators.

Show Notes

(00:00) Introduction: Matthew Baker, Partner at Saul Ewing LLP.

(1:48) The Accidental Specialty: How Matt “fell into” trust and estate litigation.

(3:43) The unique, small-bar nature of trust and estate law.

(5:07) Navigating the complexities when family businesses are locked inside a trust.

(7:44) The 50/50 Split: Why representing both trustees and beneficiaries makes you a better lawyer.

(9:08) Describing trust litigation as “family law for grown-ups” once the patriarch or matriarch passes.

(10:24) The lawyer's role as a sympathetic ear in emotionally charged family disputes.

(12:55) Mediation as an "airing of grievances" to help clients feel heard.

(14:17) Partner vs. Solo: Why collaboration and resources won out over hanging a shingle.

(18:06) Marketing Philosophy: Why you can't rely on your firm to build your career.

(19:30) The Partner's Playbook: Hiring an outside marketing coach for consistency and accountability.

(21:19) The #1 referral source for trust litigators and how to earn their trust.

(27:31) Post-COVID Litigation: The strategic use of Zoom vs. in-person court appearances.

(29:18) Why being physically in the room still matters for depositions and mediations.

(33:29) A Litigator's Daily Toolkit: Using ChatGPT, Gemini, and Co-counsel for a competitive edge.

(35:15) The Future is Now: Why attorneys who resist AI will be left behind.

(38:58) A practical AI use case: Turning a week-long document review into an hour-long analysis.

(42:41) Where to find and contact Matthew Baker.

Contact Matthew: matthew.baker@saul.com or linkedin

Want to join the show as a guest? Email us: zihao@legion.law

Join our ⁠⁠⁠Facebook community⁠⁠⁠ to connect with other founding attorneys

This podcast was brought to you by

Legion: Actually reliable litigation drafting — at AI speed.

Tired of litigation busy work? Get court-ready pleadings, serve-ready discovery, and battle-ready motions — in 30 minutes or less.

Visit legion.law

Music: lofi type beat "flower market" by snoozy beats.