Matt Lopez on Violence in America, the Charlotte Train Murder, and Escaping the Badge Through Crypto

Summary

The Level Up Podcast w/ Paul Alex

Episode Summary: Matt Lopez on Violence in America, the Charlotte Train Murder, and Escaping the Badge Through Crypto

Release Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Paul Alex Espinoza
Guest: Matt Lopez (Former Oakland/San Francisco PD officer, Crypto Entrepreneur)

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, host Paul Alex sits down with former police officer Matt Lopez, who brings a raw and unfiltered perspective on violence in America, the realities faced by police, and his personal journey transitioning from law enforcement to financial freedom via cryptocurrency. The conversation dives deep into the culture of police work, surviving critical incidents, the current climate around criminal justice, the Charlotte train murder case, and Matt’s blueprint for wealth after “escaping the badge.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Humble Beginnings and Policing Culture

[02:13-10:06] Matt Lopez’s Law Enforcement Beginnings

• Matt started his police career in Oakland (joined in 2007), describing it as the "golden era" before body cameras changed the culture and discretion in policing.
• The early years were defined by mentorship and generational wisdom:
  • “My second phase FTO… took me to every place where an Oakland police officer had been killed and told me the story… It was about legacy and making you love the department.” [05:46]

[10:06-16:44] Transitioning Departments and Adapting

• After the 2008 financial crash, layoffs forced Matt to move from Oakland to San Francisco via a brief stint in Hayward.
• Oakland PD was described as tightly trained and unified, compared to the more fractured structure in San Francisco PD.
  • “Oakland… you could jump on any call in a stack with any team. San Francisco was totally fractured… it was a mess.” [13:58–14:23]
• Matt underlines the impact of tactical training on safety and reducing negative outcomes in policing.

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Critical Incidents and the Realities of Violence

[20:09-27:50] Most Impactful Law Enforcement Moments

• Matt recounts several career-defining “critical incidents,” including the March 21, 2009 Oakland tragedy, where four officers were killed by a wanted felon.
  • “I saw men who I believed were better than me at police work die. And that was a very hard realization… Most people have not seen evil, but we have.” [21:09–21:57]
• He shares the psychological weight of these incidents, the importance of preparation, and the culture of sacrifice in policing.
  • “I want a cop like me going in, just zero regard for himself. Just to make sure you’re safe.” [26:24]

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Navigating the New Landscape: Challenges in Modern Policing

[34:04 – 44:42] The Charlotte Train Murder & America’s Crime Woes

• The hosts discuss the disturbing Charlotte train murder, criticizing apathy among bystanders and failures in criminal justice.
  • “It is disgusting that, that happens in current day America where you think that you should be able to live free, pursue happiness, and be safe.” [35:43]
• Matt and Paul denounce the trend of blaming police for systemic failures, emphasizing lack of accountability for repeat offenders, judges, and lax policies.
  • “We cannot control what happens after we take them in. We do our job. Everything else you have to let go of.” [35:59]
• The discussion exposes the double standard in media coverage and political narratives when violence occurs across racial lines.
  • “If it was reversed, dude, all the cities would be on fire. Oakland would be on fire right now.” [40:25]
• Both recognize environmental, cultural, and economic roots of cycles of violence.

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Law Enforcement Burnout and Institutional Betrayal

[47:18 – 51:18] Leaving "The Job"

• Matt describes a painful exit from policing: injuries, a lack of institutional support, and feeling discarded after decorated service.
  • “I’ve been hurt multiple times… Blew my neck, blew my back… and I just got right out with the trash.” [47:26, 49:15]
• He reflects on betrayal by the department and how officers are “guilty from the beginning” when facing complaints or accusations.

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Reinventing Through Crypto and Entrepreneurship

[50:17 – 62:01] New Identity: Crypto Advocate

• Matt’s distrust of government and institutions led him to cryptocurrency after leaving policing.
  • “The biggest thing was that you couldn’t confiscate it and it was sovereign. I don’t trust banks. I don’t trust governments now.” [51:16]
• Early investment: Turned $40K into $250K in weeks, then navigated the volatility of the crypto market.
  • “I put like 40 grand in and within like six weeks, it was 250k.” [51:39]
• After studying extensively, he liquidated retirement funds to go all-in during a down market, building multiple seven-figure portfolios.
• Matt ran a large-scale crypto mining operation and now mentors others via coaching programs, focusing on fundamentals and guiding beginners to avoid costly mistakes.

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Principles for Wealth, Legacy, and Family

[69:57 – 75:14] Values, Family, and Raising the Next Generation

• Matt aims to give his children opportunity—not unearned wealth—emphasizing the value of hard work and resilience.
  • “I want to give my kids opportunity, but I don’t want to give them wealth… I want them to earn their position.” [70:23]
• The importance of transferable skills—hard work beats raw intelligence.
  • “I try not to tell them how smart they are, even though they are. I just try to tell them they work hard.” [74:30]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On policing and its culture pre-body cams:
  • “The cameras take away… discretion that cops have. If you have a camera on, you have to take action now because it’s on camera.” [03:19]
• On critical incidents shaping worldview:
  • “Most people have not seen evil… It’s not pretty. We have to do it sometimes to keep people safe.” (Matt, [21:22])
• On blame and criminal justice failures:
  • “We cannot control what happens after we take them in. We do our job. Everything else you have to let go of.” [35:59]
• On institutional betrayal:
  • “You’re guilty from the beginning in police work, 100%, you’re guilty of it, and then you have to prove your innocence.” [46:14]
• On legacy and family:
  • “I don’t want to leave them a fund or anything like that… I want my kids not to focus on how intelligent they are. I want them to focus on hard work.” [71:44, 74:47]
• Advice for beginners:
  • “Keep going. Every day, show up and just keep going. Do not quit.” (Matt, [76:23])

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Important Timestamps

• [03:19] – The impact of body cameras on policing discretion
• [05:45] – Oakland police culture and generational legacy
• [21:09–21:57] – The sobering aftermath of the Oakland police killings
• [35:43] – Reaction to the Charlotte train murder
• [46:14] – “Guilty until proven innocent” in internal affairs
• [51:39] – Crypto “aha” moment: $40K to $250K
• [55:06] – Going all-in on crypto investments
• [62:01] – Learning mining and investing from online mentors
• [69:57] – On building opportunity, not just wealth, for his children
• [76:23] – Matt’s parting advice: don’t quit, take accountability

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Resources & Recommendations

• Podcasts and Influencers for Crypto Beginners:

  • "We Study Billionaires" (Michael Saylor & Preston Pysh) [Referenced 67:48]
  • “Wolf of All Streets” (Scott Melker) [69:14]
  • Andreas Antonopoulos, Rand Nooner for deeper technical dives

• Contact:

  • Instagram: @precisionmatt

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Final Words

Matt’s journey from the front lines of urban law enforcement to high-stakes crypto investing is a lesson in resilience, adaptability, and self-reinvention. For listeners struggling with institutional inertia, workplace burnout, or seeking a new path, Matt’s message is clear:
“No one else is responsible for the way you feel and how things are going for you. Take accountability… and if you can push through that, you’re going to succeed always.” [76:23]

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For more, follow Paul Alex on IG [@PaulAlex] and subscribe to The Level Up Podcast on Apple or Spotify. Want to learn about Matt’s crypto program or mentorship? Reach out to @precisionmatt on Instagram.

Transcript

[A]

Trip planner by Expedia. You were made to outdo your holiday, your hammocking and your pooling. We were made to help organize the competition.

[B]

Expedia made to travel.

[A]

You're guilty from the beginning in police work, 100%. You're guilty of it. And then you have to prove your innocence. I've been hurt multiple times. Blew my neck, blew my back. I was in so much pain and I just got right out with the trash. My primary fto, it happened to him, went out to breakfast. He's like, do not trust these the departments. The first year was rough, just trying to find myself. I had a buddy who kept talking to me about bitcoin. The biggest thing was that you couldn't confiscate it and it was sovereign. I was like, well, I don't trust banks. I don't trust governments now. So I started diving into crypto. I put like 40 grand in and within like six weeks, it was 250k.

[B]

What'd your wife say?

[A]

She said, wow, that's good, honey.

[B]

Hey, guys, and welcome back to Lebow Podcast. This is Paul, Alex, and today we have a phenomenal interview. Okay. We're going to be interviewing Matt Lopez. He's a former police officer, not only based in the Bay Area, but in Oakland and San Francisco. He's been in multiple, multiple critical incidents. So if you're a cop, he's a cops cop. And you guys are going to love this interview. Also, for my crypto enthusiast guys, he's also been able to do some pretty cool projects. He's been able to go ahead and build millions of dollars in revenue through his crypto investments, and he's currently teaching beginners exactly how to do that. I'm a beginner guy, so I got to learn too. Right. And then we're going to be talking about some critical incidents that are actually happening right now in the US with that being said, Matt, welcome to the show, brother Paul.

[A]

Thanks for having me, brother. Yeah.

[B]

How was that traffic?

[A]

It's fun. Three hours. Good times.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, keep Miami, dude. Yeah, I feel the same way.

[A]

You keep it. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Everybody's moving down here to Miami. I think it's like the new la, basically, or worse. Right. With that being said, for the people that don't know you, Matt, who are you exactly?

[A]

A father, a husband. Yeah. Former cop, Worked in Oakland, San Francisco, and now I do crypto work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And let's go ahead and go to your humble beginnings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of being the police.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, so when did Your police career start?

[A]

I joined Oakland in 2007.

[B]

2007. So I would say 2007 was like, it was a good time to be a cop for sure.

[A]

Right, Definitely.

[B]

Did you guys have cameras back then?

[A]

No.

[B]

No cameras.

[A]

No cameras.

[B]

When did the cameras come into play?

[A]

Not while I was in Oakland. So I left Oakland 2010, and we still didn't have them. I went to Hayward, still didn't have them, and I never had them in San Francisco. I never wore a camera.

[B]

Okay, okay. Yeah, cuz you worked. You worked undercover. Okay.

[A]

No, but even in San Francisco, I still never wore a body camera, even on patrol.

[B]

So it was an option.

[A]

No, we didn't even have them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Never wore a camera.

[B]

I call that the golden era of policing, guys. Because, you know, once the cameras came into play, you know, police work changed. Right. You would get in trouble over saying the silliest things for doing your job.

[A]

Yeah. I think there's pros and cons to it and talking to some of the guys still in it, like guys that were with me. Definitely pros and cons. But I think the biggest thing that it does is the cameras take away just some of the discretion that cops have.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I'm sure, you know, community policing and actually kind of understanding who you're dealing with. If you get somebody with something and you have a camera on, you have to take action now because it's on camera. So whereas before, we kind of had some discretion. And you can kind of build rapport with different kinds of people when you didn't have a camera on you.

[B]

That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, using discretion in police work, I mean, police work is not, you could say, the cleanest type of work. And sometimes you have to get your hands dirty in order to go ahead and get the bigger violent criminals or the bigger fish, like we would like to call it.

[A]

Well, you know.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So with that being said, paint the picture of how it was the first couple years working in Oakland. When you were working in Oakland. Dude. For somebody who, let's say, wants to be a cop.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. And for somebody who's just like, all right, I love cop stories. Tell me a good one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So paint Oakland. How was it at that time during your life?

[A]

Well, I mean, I would even have to go back to the academy. I had a DT instructor who was amazing. Samuel Falafini. He unfortunately passed away from a stroke. But one of my DT instructors, and if I don't talk about him, I think it just he kept cops safe for years, right? You had decades of cops that just probably were safe on the streets for him. And I made the mistake of not listening to what he was telling me to do because another DT instructor told me to do something else. And he pretty much kicked me in the nuts, started screaming at me, telling me that I was going to get him fucking killed if I didn't listen to him. And I realized very quickly, like, where I was at, like, yeah, oh, man. Like, if someone tells you to do something, you just do it right then and there.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And I apologize afterwards and said I made a mistake, even though the main DT instructor came over and said, hey, I told him to do that. And he was like, I don't give a fuck what you told him to do, like I told him to do. And I apologize. And ended up becoming actually really, really good friends with him or we even rode together a few times. And it was just. He's a legend in that department. So going through there, I learned a lot of vital lessons. In our academy. We had some great. My RTOs were amazing. And in the FTL program, it was just, these are guys that I think you could probably could have put up against any cop in history or just any other department in the world.

[B]

What made them so good?

[A]

They had just seen so much. They had seen so much. And they had just the take that they took on police work. All of them wanted to help. Like, they all wanted to help. I would say my second phase fto, he's not active anymore. I don't know if I want to say his name, but he was a legend of the department. He was an rto, an fto, taught driving. He was a guy that basically made me fall in love with the department. He took me to every place where an Oakland police officer had been killed and told me the story. And so each place, like, he just took me there and told me about it. And I just fell in love, even though because I wasn't from Oakland. So he. I think he really made it important because I didn't live there, I wasn't from there, but how do I get tied into, one, the department and two, the community to make it a better place? So he just did an amazing job of making me just fucking love that place. Like, okay, I felt such a tradition, and he had learned it from somebody else. So, like, there was generational policing going on. Same thing with my first phase FTO was on the probation parole team. So our PAC team, which was just a killer team, and that guy Same thing. Like, he taught me lessons that had been learned from, you know, his rtos and ftos. And it was just like the legacy was just hundreds of years of police work that was being handed down through these guys. And I don't know, they just had so much knowledge and they all want to do a good job. Like, it wasn't about just, you know, kick ass, take people to jail, whatever it was. And. And I remember one actually instance from my priority primary FTO. We did just a 4, 5, 9 that we came a couple days late to. And just a burglary for those who don't know. And the kid had gotten his, like, penny jar, his little. He had a jar full of money that had gotten stolen. And I remember my fto, like, taking the report, doing all this stuff, apologizing everybody. And then he went and he slipped 100 bucks under the kid's pillow. And we left. And he just said, like, these people have it so hard anyways. Like, I can make the difference. And he just did that. And I never forgot that we used to work overtime quite a bit, like, and not get paid for the first hour because he said, we give. The first department treats us good, we're going to treat them good. And this is, unfortunately, a guy that eventually got pushed out by the department.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But these guys loved it. They were just amazing.

[B]

So they basically built that culture, that vision for you. They, they built the foundation of why you actually liked the policing there.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I loved it my first year. I would have done it for free. I would have done the job for free.

[B]

You know, I always say the same thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the, the day that I got released from field training, you know? Field training, Dude, I remember sitting in the Crown Vic, driving down 84th Inn International for everybody. All my barians, you know, grep Oakland, but. Yeah, dude. And just saying how this is a dream, like, I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this. It was phenomenal.

[A]

Greatest job in the world.

[B]

Yeah, greatest job in the world. And there used to be a saying by OG Co. He just retired, but he used to say, hey, Paul, man, not bad for having a high school degree. You know, you probably know who that is, but. Yeah, man. Okay, cool. So what happened? Why'd you leave Oakland to go to San Francisco?

[A]

Well, they had the great financial crash, so that happened. Vallejo went bankrupt.

[B]

What year was this?

[A]

This was 2010, I think. Yeah, I think it was 2010. Yeah. 2010. Yeah. So great financial crash happened, 2008. And then City started having problems. They were going to lay off a bunch of cops. They did half of my class. I was thankful enough. My first year off probation, I received and Exceeds Expectations rating. So I still would have made it right at the border. I think I graduated my class, like, 13th, and there was only like 19 of us that made through FTO anyways, out of, like, 51 that started. But I got Exceeds Expectations, so it bumped me to the top of my class for seniority. And then half my class was laid off. So half my class was laid off. Most of my squad mates were all laid off. And the POA at the time said they're going to do more layoffs. So I said, okay, we have to go. My wife was pregnant with our first kid. We had just bought a house. So I was like, I got to find somewhere else to work, just in case, because I saw these other guys struggling that had been laid off.

[B]

And what were most cops doing? Where were they getting laid off? Were they going to other departments? Were they, like, transitioning to other jobs?

[A]

Some, if you were lucky enough. A lot of them, yeah, were just picking up any kind of side gig they wanted or could. I think some of them were guarding the. A lot of them were guarding the weed places.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The were legal, so a lot of them picked up just, you know, anything they could get to basically pay the bills during that time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then you end up transitioning to San Francisco. You end up going to San Francisco with all this experience from Oakland, man. I mean, I feel like once you transition from being a cop somewhere else, I mean, obviously you got to learn different habits. You got to go ahead and earn your rep again. So how was that, the transition going from Oakland PD to San Francisco PD?

[A]

Yeah. Well, I did do a quick 10 months in Hayward, which was pretty rough because, you know, Oakland was. It felt very large because we only had two stations. You had Eastmont and you had pab, so it was like, lineups were massive, everything else. And then I went to Hayward and It was like 110 cops.

[B]

Very small.

[A]

Tiny. Right. Tiny department and good old boys club. Yes. And there was guys with 10 years on that had never been in a specialized unit, and I had already been in one. And it was just like, man, I don't want to wait that long. And it was way different. So I said, I gotta get outta here. So that's when I ended up. A good friend had went to sf, said, this place is great. He worked in LA as well. La, Oakland, and then sf. And so I Was like, cool, I'm out. Took the chance, went over to San Francisco. They put us through a lateral academy, which was thought was kind of funny because we didn't have to do one in Hayward. So I was like, okay, I'll do one. It was a bunch of us Oakland guys. And I think they were getting a feel for us because they had never had laterals at that time. I'll say the policing in San Francisco is great, but the training is nowhere near are the same, like night and day difference.

[B]

How so?

[A]

Like, I don't know. Did you march in your academy?

[B]

So we marched. I mean, it really depends on who your RTO is. And for the listeners and the viewers, if you guys don't know our police jargon that we're using, RTO means Recruiting Training officer. FTO is field Training Officer. So these are the acronyms that we use for the people that basically train the police at the police academy.

[A]

Y.

[B]

But no, one. One thing I did, C. Because you have to go through post requirements in California. So it's all this certifications. That's why when people talk and they go ahead, oh, well, please, you know, you don't need no training for that. It's the most intense training that you could do within six months. And if you fail one test once a week, you're screwed. Right? But I know for Oakland, their dtac, their defensive tactics, and also their shooting, their firearms training is like an additional 100 hours compared to most academies. That's what I remember.

[A]

Our range. Our range quals were harder than some SWAT calls. Quals for other departments. I knew that.

[B]

And you know what? I can confirm that. And the reason why is because I went to work under Alameda County Sheriffs. And when I did, I remember that they wanted me to become a field training officer. But for detectives at the time, yep. Oakland didn't want to do it because I wasn't on the street for that long. Okay. So they ended up shipping me out all the way to San Diego to get field training certified. When I did that, I was supposed to teach the class something from my agency. So I taught them dtac. Yeah, Defensive tactics. And they're like, that's a SWAT move. I was like, what do you mean that's a SWAT move? They're like, yeah, that's only our SWAT guys use that. I was just like, really? I was like, dude, we've been using this all day.

[A]

Well, that is one of the things that like you're saying is that in Oakland, I feel like no matter where we were at. You could jump on any call in a stack with any team. And we all had the same tactics.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From the, the patrolman all the way up to the SWAT guy. It didn't matter what it was. If an incident was going on, you could show up and you knew what your job was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

San Francisco was totally fractured. We had our patrol units. You had the motor guys, you had our spec team, which is like snipers. They're sometimes the first ones on there. And then you had your tac team, which is like, they're. They have their own unit. They don't handle, you know, sometimes they go out and handle calls, but they're like a full time team and everyone had different roles and it was just, it was a mess. It.

[B]

Control chaos.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You couldn't, you didn't. Nobody knew what everybody else was doing. No one was trained exactly the same. So I feel like that was a problem. It could have been because they had 2200 cops. But the good news is I think a lot of Oakland guys have got into the training department since I left especially.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

And they're trying to square it away. I know two guys have just an amazing job at their academy to like because it's. The reality is it's not about who knows what are. It's about keeping people safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Keeping cops safe and then also keeping citizens safe. Because the better trained your cops are, you're less likely to overreact in a situation.

[B]

Less shootings, less problems.

[A]

You just know how to handle things. Correct. You know, and like that's the thing. Like I always remember, you know, Captain Joyner, when he taught in our academy, he was only a sergeant, but you know, he had been in five shootings already. And you know, he's the one who got shot at the gas station multiple times in that one incident after he retired. But he remember him saying, I could have shot 100 people, but I'm a God fearing man. And I remember that distinctly in my head. And then I almost had a shooting where I didn't shoot where I could have shot. And I felt really shitty about it because I was like, from my academy training, I should have shot this guy. Yeah, right.

[B]

On paper you were like, on paper.

[A]

I was 100% right. But I didn't. And I made a decision. And then my sergeant who ended up getting killed, Dan Sakai, he talked to me after the incident because I asked him, I said, sergeant, can I talk to you about this? And I told him what had happened and he said, don't ever feel bad about not doing something because you had a reason? Because that's why we trained you, you know? And so, like, yes, I think the better trained you are, the more apt you are to keep everybody safe, yourself and the people that you're protecting.

[B]

No, absolutely, man. So San Francisco, how long were you in San Francisco for?

[A]

I did seven in San Francisco.

[B]

So seven years, San Francisco. What was your path like? Because there's different paths. And when I say paths, guys in law enforcement, I mean, people have different reasons to become a cop. Whether it's financials, whether it's purpose, whether it's like, you just want to get into shit. Y' all is probably one of those. I'm mad too, but. But that's just what it is, right? So when we ask about path, I know a lot of cops that stay, you know, a beat cop, which is nothing wrong with that, for majority of their career, and then they end up becoming a field training officer and then finally a sergeant. Right. And they retire out. That's it. Right. But for a lot of guys like yourself, you go into specialized unit, you do all the crazy shit. So.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What path did you take?

[A]

Well, for me, ultimately, when I got in it, like anything else, I had a degree, so I thought I was smart. And I was like, I want to move up the ranks is when I first got in. Even in Oakland, this is what changed my whole perspective. And then one of our sergeants, he's an OG in Oakland, came to the academy and literally got up there and said, if you're not here to take people to jail, you're for the wrong fucking reason. And right then and there, that switched my whole mindset of what I thought I should be doing. And I just said, I want to do 10 years before I ever promote. And I wanted to say that, like, I knew the best cops. I had some very good sergeants. I know you did as well. Some of them had done everything. Some of them didn't do everything. But they knew who to ask when they didn't know the answer. And so I was like, man, I just want 10 years as an officer. Touch as many areas of police work as possible so that when I promote, when these people look to me for guidance, I know I can either give it to them. And if I can't, if I don't know the answer, I know somebody close to me who does. So I think when I got in San Francisco, I was in a shooting within five weeks. So I was just coming off a shooting like a year before five Weeks in, I'm in FTO and I get in another shooting. They took really good care of me. Our chief was an absolute stud. Chief Greg, sir. He was the man at the time. Came in, took phenomenal care of me, sent me to Northern Station. Northern Station, Legacy Station. Cops have been copying their third generation. Great, great grandfathers had worked in the 1906 earthquake. Just a Legacy station. Did a really good job there. I was able to start doing, like, street team, which we didn't really have in Oakland. So we have. Each station in San Francisco has its undercover teams. So we have our plainclothes teams that work out of the station to handle everything within the neighborhoods. So I wanted to work some plainclothes. So I wasn't on our plainclothes team there. But I got to be plain clothes at nighttime, because the plainclothes guys work swings usually. So they would. At nighttime, they'll let my partner. I go be plain clothes. So I did that for a long time. And then our Southern plainclothes team had gotten in some trouble. A couple years passed before my time there, and they wanted to bring it back. Southern was a major station. It's basically the hall of justice. It's where, like, all the Dirty Harry movies and everything are out of. And they said, it's important for us to have this plainclothes team back. We want to start it again, and we want you to be a part of it. So it was actually me and a couple other Oakland guys and then some SF guys, and we brought that team back. So I did that, started there. And then we were basically. Since San Francisco is kind of an open air drug market, anybody that can't sell dope in their own cities because it's too violent. Oakland streets are super violent. If you couldn't cut on the corners, you would just go sell in the tenderloin, you would just go sell in San Francisco because it was open, not as violent. We were having problems with people coming from all of our other cities and causing chaos in the city. So chief sir said, we need a unit to go handle these guys. Right. And that was you guys? Yeah. He said, you're a shitstorm. So anywhere these guys live outside of this city, we want you guys to go get them. So it was me, a couple other Oakland guys, And then some OGs in San Francisco who were probably some of the best undercover cops we've ever had that I got to work with. I put them on par with Oakland cops as far as, like, CIS go. The way they could manage the CIS tactics and Police work maybe a little different. I always say the Oakland guys are the best, but, yeah, that was my path in. In San Francisco. I love that.

[B]

Walk us through a. Let's say, a critical incident that actually changed your life and your. And, you know, the way you see the world while you were in law enforcement, man. And you could talk about either your time in San Francisco or in Oakland. What would be one critical incident? I know there was many.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

But you only got to pick one dude, because we had to keep the show under two hours. All right.

[A]

Well, each one I went through, I'll say that there was. That I would consider major critical incidences. That there is more than. More than one. I would list the ones that probably changed me. It was my sergeant getting killed. We had the four officers killed March 21, 2009. That changed me, right? Because I saw men who I believed were better than me at police work die. And that was a very hard realization. Like, okay, I think I'm a badass. Like, we all do. At a certain point, you have to have some air of confidence, right?

[B]

I feel like you're telling the truth on that. You know, every. I would say, cops, cop. Or at least if you're a proactive cop, dude, there's days that you feel invincible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're like, I can't get touched.

[A]

I'm gonna do this because you did.

[B]

Some crazy shit, probably, right?

[A]

And that's great. That's your job, is to go out there and get the bad guys, right? Like, I want to make sure everybody around stay safe. There are bad people out there, and I know you've seen it in some. And then I guess that's the other part, too. With police work in general, most people have not seen evil, and I'm sure we'll get into it later. But there is real evil out there, and people. Most people have not seen it. We've seen it more times than I care to count, and I don't want normal people to see it. But that's the hard part, is because they judge us off of what we've done, even though they've never seen what violence looks like. It's not pretty. And we have to do it sometimes to keep people safe.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So March 21st definitely changed me because I realized one. I always knew I wasn't invincible because I've always been hurt before. But watching those guys who were better than me go, I was like, man, that was just really tough.

[B]

And if you're comfortable, man, I mean, like I said, this is open Book, and we're very, very open on this podcast. But would you want to run down that scenario? Exactly what happened?

[A]

Yeah, it was basically a car stop with a guy who was wanted. I don't remember what he was wanted for. I believe it was a.

[B]

It was a 261. It was rape.

[A]

Sexual assault or rape of a minor. I believe his name was Lavelle Mixon. And he was stopped by two of our OG motor cops, John Haggie and Sergeant Mark Dunnan. And Dunnan was amazing. Right. Duncan had been homicide street teams, taught in the academy, was just funny as all hell. And they went to stop him, and he had a fake license. And I don't remember all the details around the license, whether he had actually got it from DMV or it was just a total fake. But it wasn't coming back. They went up to get him, went to go pull him out of the driver's seat, and he basically popped out the window, shot both of them in the head, stood over them and executed them. Right. Went up to run. And then what happened is obviously we have a full team come out, our SWAT team. We got a lot of heat in the after action report, and I think that's kind of bullshit in some ways. I mean, it's always good to do after action. But a lot of people didn't know how Oakland worked. Those were our best of the best because they said it was an ad hoc team that went to go get him. But basically what happened was we had had information, Captain Joyner, I believe, who had more CIs than anybody knows.

[B]

That guy knew like half the city.

[A]

Everybody. Yeah, yeah. He knew where he was, said he's there, and they made some mistakes as well as. Instead of just, you know, maybe. And. Well, I only want to say mistakes. I wasn't the one making the calls. But the. The problem they said was, is maybe they should have just waited him out, throw gas, do some other things. They also weren't 100% sure he was in there. So they want to do hand check. Right. We used to call it a hand check, where you would just go in versus actually doing it. And unfortunately, when our team went to go in, you know, he was laying in the back room with an sks, and as you know, AJ threw or keyed the door, and Romans went to throw the flashbangs and the smoke in.

[B]

And then SKS. Rifle.

[A]

Yeah, rifle.

[B]

What round?

[A]

762.

[B]

Yeah. So we're talking about military great guys in the city of Oakland. Pretty normal.

[A]

Yep. And he had Gotten that from a burglary, if I'm not mistaken out on, like, Modesto or something, the guy had not reported it. So when they went to open the door, and I believe Romans got shot at that point in time. And then another sergeant of ours, who is the one who basically changed my mindset in the academy, he took a round through the shoulder, a round off of his helmet, still made entry. And when they went in the back, they were in the back room, couldn't see anything from what I had heard. And he basically. Sakai had taken a shot underneath his helmet. At that point in time, they ended up still getting them in the back room. The other sergeant had put him down, and, you know, they got him out. So it was a rough incident for multiple different ways. And I do remember, though, right after it, we started repping what had happened wrong in the. In the scenario. Like, right away, we went to the range, people started doing the car stops and figuring out how we need to approach cars from there on. So the training was amazing. But, yeah, it changed me because Dan Sakai was my superhero. Like, that guy was like, you know, he was so tactical, so smart. So, like, he's who I wanted to be in police work. Like, okay, this guy has done swat, he's done canine, he's done dope, he's done all this stuff. He's now promoted to a sergeant. He's a guy who put his time in, knew the answers, and could get you the answers if he didn't know it. And he was so well liked. And it was just like, man, that. That definitely changed my perspective of not what I thought about myself. Because I'll be honest, I don't know if I really cared. I didn't want to die, but if I did, I almost felt like it.

[B]

Was like you were okay with it.

[A]

It was part of it, yeah. Right. And I think that's a big decision that my wife and I made. When we started having kids. Everybody told me, you got to slow down, right? Like, you gotta stop. And her and I talked about it, and we had a real conversation. And I said, I policed this way for my entire career so far. I don't really want to change it because I think it's what keeps me on edge, like, keeps me safe.

[B]

Keeps you going.

[A]

Yes. And I said, I also. We're starting a family, and if you ever need help, if our kids ever need help, I don't want a cop standing outside thinking about his family. I want a cop like me going in just zero regard for himself. Just to make sure you're safe. And I was like, so I have to do it like this? And she said, then do it. Do your job the way you have to do it. And that's the way I always went. So I didn't change the minute I started having family, kids, and it just. Yeah, I was okay if that happened to me. I thought tackling anything head on from our training, I'd be okay. An ambush, obviously, I think they would get me, but everything else, I was like, man, I just have to stay sharp.

[B]

Yeah, you're just.

[A]

You're squared away, you're ready.

[B]

You're ready to engage. You take it serious. And that's good, man. That's what's needed, you know, especially being in that city and any city, guys, you know, we respect all cops from. No matter. If you patrol small towns, I think.

[A]

It'S almost worse than small towns.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're not as ready. Like, you just don't expect it, you know?

[B]

So, like, he kills, dude.

[A]

Oh, well, that's why I actually got these tattoos. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wasn't a big tattoo guy, but it says, if you wish for peace, prepare for war. Yeah. And I felt like in San Francisco, I wasn't on edge as much as I was in Oakland. And so I just always reminded myself, like, I just have to be ready because I don't want to be a statistic. 15, 20 years in my police career. I got lazy.

[B]

Yeah, no, absolutely, man. And I used to remember, like, I had a couple friends that, you know, would leave Oakland to go to other departments because they're like, oh, man, they're giving me the boot. They're giving me a hard time here. They don't allow me to police. But then they end up coming back after a year because they're like, I'm bored.

[A]

You know, there's nothing like it.

[B]

Once you work in that city, man, it's. It definitely changes you to an adrenaline junkie.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

But. All right, man. So let's give advice to some of the beginners here because I get quite a few dms, you know, throughout the week and daily about people joining law enforcement still in 2025, man. So what would be three pieces of good advice that you would tell somebody before they go ahead and try to tackle applying for the police? What would you say from your perspective, like, hey, dude, if you're not prepared in this way.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If you're not ready for this, if you're, you know. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I Think so before you're applying. Yeah. You better be in shape. Like, that's. That's number one. If you're not in shape, it's going to be so much more difficult for you. And I'm sure you had guys in your academy that were in great shape, and so did we. And the physical part was so tough for them. Where the physical part was not as tough for me. Like, that was the easiest part of the academy. I liked it. Right. It was like getting a workout in. So being physically, you know, in shape is going to help you and. Excuse me, even long run, it's going to help you mitigate the stresses of the job. Anyways, being in shape, you're going to handle stress better. You're going to do all kinds of things. So be in shape physically. Two, I think you need to. I hate to say this because it is, but you got to be humble, but at the same time, you got to be confident. And I always have problems walking that line because, well, I'm sure you as well, you're successful, right? So, like, you know, like, I can do anything. And sometimes that confidence translates the wrong way. Yes. Like, they. People can think you're cocky. And it was like, well, I'm not. I can do it. Like, I know I can do this.

[B]

Well, here's my perspective on that. Right. Because, you know, I. I don't know if Oakland was the way it was. I'm going to articulate it, but when I was in Oakland, the dynamic was very toxic. And it was like a good toxic. It's like for all my signal guys, I like the toxicas out there. Right. You know what I'm saying? You're just like, you know, they're bad for you, but you still. You still go back. Right? So same thing in my department during the time I was in the police. Right. It was just like. Like you had certain people that you just did not like because of their demeanor, the way they spoke, the way they acted, or the way they did their job. Right. But at the end of the day, you would still have their back.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's just. That's just how our department rules. Right. And I'm pretty sure majority of departments are like that. Most cops are like that. You'll have each other's back no matter what. The reason why I say that is because I remember a sergeant and a lieutenant from ACSO when I was working under them on the task force, they said, paul, you cocky motherfucker, but you back it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the only reason why we Stan you?

[A]

And I think, yeah, mine was similar because I did catch so much flack early on, and it wasn't for, I think a lot of it was. I was just really excited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't really believe. Like, I knew I didn't know that much. Like, I was smart enough to have a realization. I don't know all this stuff, but, like, man, one of the units I was in, the guy's got like a hundred guns that year. And I was just like, oh, my God, this squad gets so, so many guns. And it happened to be like, I had gotten two guns on a car stop, and I'd found one of them in the air filter compartment in fto. And so they thought that I thought that I was son this guy. And I even got an award that the sergeant printed out for me and gave in front of this massive line and out of Eastmont. And I was like, no, it's not me doing it. Like, you know, but it was just. I was so happy to be doing police. But a lot of them did like me. And I think it wasn't until I'd actually had been in my shooting and saved that chippy, I think that switched for a lot of people. I wasn't called cocky anymore. Like, people probably gave me that. I was cocky before then, but after that, it was just more like, no.

[B]

They knew you were the real deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you take care of business that.

[A]

I would do anything for any cop there. Like, I literally would run into gunfire to help you.

[B]

And I think that's normal, dude. Yeah, I think it's normal. Especially with rookie cops, you know, rookie cops, especially, like you say, you describe them, there's going to be a very small percentage of every single academy class where you're going to have, you know, a very small group of cops that want to be super proactive. They're gonna go out there and do great police work. And then some of the more veteran officers are gonna be like, oh, who's this guy think he is? He hasn't been here long enough.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But. But at the end of the day, I also like to nurture.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

My mentees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I like to go ahead and, like, push and lift people up, dude. That's what I learned about myself, like, you know, especially in police work, man. I've always mentored people, and I never thought about it like that back then. Right. Yeah, but just like you said, dude, like, your sergeants, like, the people that gave you advice, who you looked up to.

[A]

Right, Absolutely.

[B]

That's that's huge. And it goes back to being in business now. Right. It translates right into business, but in life as well. So it's a lot of good values that you learned throughout police work. And I feel like if it wasn't for police work, I wouldn't be the man that I am today. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing for you, brother.

[A]

Maybe. I think. I think that this stuff would have been pulled out of you regardless. Yeah. Like, I think. I mean, obviously I know how you feel about what your police career did for you, but I am also a believer that a lot of these things are in us as people and it takes a situation to pull them out of you.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

And so it doesn't matter what it is. You just need to find the right thing. And it may have been police work for you. I had done decent amount of stuff before I swam through college. I was a D1 swimmer. Been through some rough stuff. My brother passed away and so, like, there were situations I don't think I had to go through, but I've always risen to the occasion. So it's like whatever it is, the situation arises is going to pull something out of me to perform. Yeah, right.

[B]

You're going to make it happen.

[A]

Going to make it happen. And I know that's you. You've made all this stuff happen. And it's.

[B]

It wasn't always like that, man. It wasn't always like that. I think what ended up pushed me was, to be honest, was. Well, no, in corporate America, I did do pretty well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then what I will tell you is I wasn't fulfilled.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So police work, I was fulfilled up, but all the way to the end, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But let's shift perspectives now. Let's shift a little to what's going on now in the world. Okay. You know, this morning I had. Did a post on my. My Facebook profile about a critical incident that happened just, I think about less than a week ago. Dude on a train in Charlotte with a murderer. Like, you know, straight up murder. They just stabbed innocent Ukrainian woman on the train while she's sitting there going to work or whatnot, Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But what made me really angry about this, man. And you know, I'm such a big. I guess you could say, I don't know, man. Like, I like to stand up for people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I like to go ahead and like, I guess you could say I'm a protector for sure. I am the dude that would be like the first to one in the door hey, dude, we're going to go handle business now. We're going to go ahead and take care of this.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

I'm like, dude, let's do it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, so, so it really pisses me off because there's a lot of video out there, man, that shows that no one did anything during that incident, man. So, you know, couple, couple key details into, into this incident. You know, people are blaming the cops for not patrolling the train. They're obviously, they're making it political now. They're saying that the, the judges that let this man off because he did go to jail like over 15 times, they're trying to blame that he, you know, has some mental issues and they're blaming it on that. Right, so what's, what's your take on this incident?

[A]

Yeah, that's a tough one. Right, so. Well, obviously, just like you said, it's horrible what happened. Right. It's just, it's not horrible, it's disgusting. It is that, that happens in current day America where you think that you should be able to live, you know, free.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be able to pursue happiness and be safe. Right. And I think one of my FTO said it best, like when we first started arresting people and the case was, wouldn't go, he said to me to keep me focused and keep me energetic. He says we cannot control what happens after we take them in. We do our job. Everything else you have to let go of. And that got tougher and tougher, as I'm sure you were aware. You know, I've had guys that pulled guns on me and they didn't get charged.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Was in a shooting where the guy shot at me. I got the gun, I got it. Couldn't tell if it was the driver or the passenger who shot. So I just said, I don't know who it was, but it was gunshots, gun, driver, GSW or residue on them. Everything went when we tested them and the case went nowhere. Yeah. Like it just, he got like three months probation for like a hit and run with great bodily injury on a taxi driver. So those are sometimes tough to swallow. But I think as police officers, and that's why they want to blame the police, but I don't think they understand. Cops just want to do good work. Like we want to take people to jail that are bad. We want to keep people safe. Sometimes the, you know, people do get jaded in police work because they have been doing it for so long and nothing happens when you end up doing this job or you get burned by Administrations or whatever it is, that's tough. But I think that we need to hold the people accountable who don't keep these people in jail. That's what my take is, is that if we take someone to jail, we have done our job. Just like if a cop lets someone go for DUI or something else and they go on and crash and kill somebody, they will absolutely hold that cop liable. You had the stop and you let this person continue to drive and they wrecked and killed another family, you're going. You're done. Or hold you responsible for that.

[B]

Or it's like going to a domestic violence situation and you don't take a person to jail and it's a mandatory arrest. Yes. If you guys didn't know that cops have to arrest somebody when it's domestic violence, even if you guys just push each other on the shoulder, guys.

[A]

Oh, no. Just accuse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just an accusation. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, 100%.

[A]

He hit me. Oh, okay.

[B]

Because it's happened before, and case law was created where the cop was just like, okay, they take the word for it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Good. People go take a walk, and then somebody comes back, ends up killing the other spouse, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So same thing in this situation, man. I mean, it's sickening that, you know, they. They allow criminals just like that out of jail multiple times. I mean, when is enough enough?

[A]

Dude, I think we've already had enough. Like, it's. It's enough already.

[B]

I think it's gonna blow up. And, dude, it's. It's gonna shift a couple policies out there.

[A]

I. I would hope so, because there needs to be some accountability. And I'm all for, you know, we need defense attorneys, we need public defenders, and it needs to be done properly. If someone. You have the right to defend yourself. As far as, like, in a court case, you shouldn't be found guilty just because. But if you are guilty of something and you do do something, somebody needs to be accountable for that sentence that's handed down to you. So if a judge is just letting people go and then something else happens, I mean, I would always feel a certain way. For instance, I would take people to jail, and my thought process was, I know this is not going to get charged, but I would just ask certain questions. Like if a guy was a booster and he would just break into cars all the time, and I say, how many cars do you break, break into a day, whatever, just chop it up with them and be like, okay, this guy breaks into 13 cars a night. That means tomorrow, 13 people are going to wake up Feeling real shitty because their car window is broken. Maybe they had a job appointment. Maybe that. Whatever. You don't know how many people this one person can affect.

[B]

It's a ripple effect.

[A]

Absolutely. So I take them to jail. So I take them to jail. And I said, at least tonight, this person cannot hurt anybody else. They cannot cause any other chaos. So I'm going to take them. Everybody like, hey, that shit's pretty pointless. That's not going anywhere. They're not going to charge him for the dope, whatever it was.

[B]

That's so funny, man. I used to get that as a rookie all the time. They're like, dude, why are you racing this guy? That's not enough dope to, like, keep him in jail for a long time. And I'm like, dude, I don't care. I'm here doing my job.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

I get paid by the hour.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

I get paid.

[B]

I'm here to provide customer service my way. You know what I'm saying? But let's talk about the media, dude. I think it's complete. Yeah. That the media is not covering this incident the way they're supposed to be. Because let's say if it was reversed, bro.

[A]

And absolutely.

[B]

We're Latinos. Okay. I'm proving a Mexican. We're from freaking California.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

One of the most diverse states in the United States, guys. So before I start hearing comments or anything, or. You guys are racist. Nah, dude, my wife black. All right. Yeah, that's. That's how diverse we are.

[A]

That's where racist was.

[B]

So. So that's what we're going to tell you.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

There you go. But with that being said, if it was reversed, dude, if it was a white guy, a black woman. Oh, dude, all the cities would be on fire. Oakland would be on fire right now. We get hit up by our homies being like, yo, bro, what's up? Yeah, can we go do what you guys are doing? Right?

[A]

Well, absolutely. Well, I mean, I experienced the firsthand in one of the shootings I was in. They had riots and protests after it because I got in a shooting with a person and they didn't know I was Hispanic. Where literally a day before, I was talking to all the members of the church or businesses the day before. Then the next day they're on the news talking shit about me. So I've seen it happen. And you're absolutely right. If this was reversed, it would happen. And I think there's a systematic problem. Like, there's just an Issue. It's changed my viewpoint a little bit since I got out of policing. But you have to look at the communities. You have to look. And I mean, I'm sure it used to bug. You used to bug the hell out of me when I was in Oakland and I would see Hispanics because that's obviously why I did identify with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm first generation. I know how hard my grandparents never spoke English. My father didn't speak English the second grade. I know how hard they worked and what they did to provide me with the life I have. And then, you know, what I'm able to do when I would see these guys start hanging out in the projects, the Hispanics especially, and acting a certain way. What is wrong with you? And then I ask, what does your dad do? Oh, he's a landscaper. What's your mom do? She cleans houses. Why are you out here acting this way? Like, do you not understand the opportunity? Yes. And so. And I don't know if it's the system that's broken that they put these people in these concrete jungles and they just tell them to live a certain way and they don't see outside their little block.

[B]

It's environment based. Dude.

[A]

110.

[B]

It's like, I still got friends that are freaking my age 37, and they still talk like they're freaking 15, bro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And obviously I don't hang around with them or talk to them, but I still know that. That they do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's just the way it is in certain neighborhoods. They just never get out of that bubble.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I think it is systematic. I think it is because you go to these houses, you go to these neighborhoods, and you're like, why do you do this? And then you really get to know the person. And that's all they know.

[A]

Yeah. And I think the other two is there's a massive disconnect. And I think this is part of the bigger change. And whether you're on the left or the right, whatever it is, I have encountered a lot of people. Obviously, I worked in San Francisco and I used to protect a lot of people on the left.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I get to talk to some of these people. And especially when I transitioned out of police work, I'll never forget it. I worked with a very powerful family that was building all the homeless encampments in San Francisco. And I said, I don't think these people actually want homes. They got millions of dollars from the city of San Francisco to build these things. And I said to Them. I said, if you would like to talk to some of the homeless, I know a really good officer who would love to take you guys around to these encampments to actually talk to the homeless people to see if, you know, you can help them with what they actually need. And they're like, oh, we never thought about that. And I think that there's a disconnect with some of the elites who think that they just know better than everybody else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they don't think, you know, oh, maybe we should see. So I think that there's a disconnect there, and I don't know. I hope there's a change. It is funny how the media will portray one thing and not the other, and that's unfair. Yeah. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, like, I always say, and I always say this to my parents because they love watching the news, man. I'm like, don't watch that. That shit's all negativity. That shale, like, it feeds into the agenda. Fear.

[A]

Oh, fear.

[B]

Don't do anything. Stay normal. Conform. That dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just like, we're here to level up.

[A]

Well. Well, ultimately, you shouldn't really care. I mean, Martin Luther King always had some of the best speeches about people's character. That's the most important thing. And I learned that in Oakland, especially. Like, I didn't care if you were purple, if you're wearing blue. Like, you were my brother, you were my sister. Like, that was it to me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I really think we've gotten away from that. And I don't know how any of that matters what you are, because, I mean, we're here in America. I don't care where you came from, where you've been, whatever it is, if you're here and you want to be, have a better life, and that's what you should be striving towards. But these people want to play these. You know, I don't know. I don't know why the race thing is so important right now for people, because it doesn't really matter.

[B]

It all ties back into politics and, you know, who the president is right now and what it's perceived. And it's all part of this bigger agenda, man. But with that being said, you know, the guy's getting federally charged. Thank God.

[A]

Yeah, they're pulling the case. Yeah.

[B]

Trump just made an announcement on that the. The other night, so kudos to him. But, yeah, dude, things need to change, and I think, you know, we need to go ahead and go back to the old school. Of letting police. Police, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that was one of the. I'll be honest with you, man. That was one of the main reasons why I ended up leaving law enforcement. Because I was in California. Yeah, right. And it was Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones guys. Meaning that, like, they will screw you if you do actual real police response. Imagine if you're a cop right now, not only in California, but I know in different other states where you pull somebody over and they say some false allegations, now you're put on probation. Now you can't go ahead and actually do your job. You're sat at a desk, and now you're awaiting your faith because some asshole wanted to go ahead and make a complaint at the end of the day. Is that right? Absolutely not. I mean, dude, what. What is your take on that?

[A]

Yeah, it's a complete opposite of what due process actually should be. You're guilty from the beginning in police work, 100%, you're guilty of it, and then you have to prove your innocence. It's not like there's. It's not like a search warrant where you've written all this probable cause and now you have to prove it on the other side. No, literally, you are guilty just by them saying something. And you gotta. You have to fight to get it back. And then the next time. Why would you take that risk? Why would you take that chance when all of a sudden your entire life is on the line, right? And then if you ever get sued, you have to list all of your assets whenever they want to sue you. So it's like you realize all of a sudden what you're putting at risk. You know, when you're trying to just help people, you know, and especially people that hate us. I don't know how many people you know. Pennies on the dollar. We used to run in and go do things for people that couldn't stand us, but we did it day in and day out. So, yeah, it's rough.

[B]

It's the way it goes, man. But with that being said, let's transition to some more positivity here at the level up, guys. All right, so what was the last year you actually served?

[A]

2017.

[B]

Okay, so in 2017, you end up transitioning out. Yep, you end up transitioning out. And then what was life after policing?

[A]

Oh, man. First year was pretty rough just because I got hurt multiple times.

[B]

So paint the scenario, dude. How many kids?

[A]

Four kids.

[B]

What was your guys mindset when you.

[A]

Guys are like, we had three kids at the time. We have four now. But yeah, at that time, no, I was ultimately gonna try to build spec homes with my dad. That's what we were gonna do, build spec homes. Cause he's a general contractor, does amazing work, always wanted to do it. My little brother who passed away was going to do it with him. So he was kind of caught in limbo, just still doing insurance. Insurance jobs. And he does a really good job with them, but I figured, okay. Did tons of things after a cop. I've been hurt multiple times. Blew my neck, blew my back. Was on a lot of painkillers, nerve blockers, muscle relaxers. The department would not fix me. They just fought me tooth and nail and I was in so much pain. And I was just like, I'm done. Like I can do something else.

[B]

So you didn't even medically retire?

[A]

No, I didn't say retirement. Yeah, no.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

I didn't get a damn thing. Just walked. And I. And I would have won it in the long run. I had an attorney and we would have won it in the long run. I just know that they would have owned me. And I still wanted to be active. I had three daughters at the time, so it was like I still wanted to be a dad for them. I didn't want to be a shell because I had seen cops that had gone through the workers comp system. It was just brutal how they had to just lay on the couch, not leave their house. It wasn't the life for me. I was like, I still want to be active. So the first year I walked away, I spent a lot of time just getting my mind right and my body right because I couldn't believe what had happened to me, you know? I nominated Rookie of the Year in Oakland, Medal of Valor from Oakland, Life Saving War, CHP Gold Medal of Valor from San Francisco, Medal of Honor from our poa. And I just got fucking right out with the trash.

[B]

Doesn't that suck?

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

You're like, was I just a number, bro?

[A]

Well, you know what's funny is my primary FDA fto, it happened to him. Yeah, solid cop. And a complaint had come around and he almost went crazy. And he medicald out on a medic, on a psych. And then I met up with him one more time and he told me like, he told me the same thing. We went out to breakfast. He's like, do not trust these the departments, do not trust them this and that. And I was like, oh, dude, he's lost it. Like, I was like, that ain't gonna happen to me. And then sure Enough. It happened to me. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't, cannot believe. So it took me a while to come to terms with that. How. How I went into the police department and how I got out of it. The. The way it aged me over 10 years and what had done to my body. And I was like, man, I cannot believe this. So it took me a good while to kind of recover from that, like, get right. Get physically strong. I had a couple back surgeries. I had two back surgeries to fix me. But, yeah, the first year was rough, just trying to find myself.

[B]

So you're going through this transition, then what?

[A]

Well, basically, I didn't trust the government at that point in time because of how I got treated. And, I mean, it was nuts what they actually put me through. They would subpoena all of my records for bank accounts, all kinds of things. When the city. Because they basically said I was lying about my injury because they had pictures of me picking up my girls. And I never got in trouble because I just didn't. I told the truth. I was like, I got three daughters. Yes, I picked them up. Yes, I still swim because I have to move. I've been through three shootings. You can't just keep me locked in my house. I'm going to go crazy. Like, no way. So I didn't trust politics or the city or governments after that point. And we had sold our house in Northern California, had done pretty well. And I had a buddy who kept talking to me about bitcoin, and he was like, hey, dude, the biggest thing was that you couldn't confiscate it, and it was sovereign. So I was like, well, I don't trust banks. I don't trust governments now. So I started diving into cryptocurrency.

[B]

Such a rebel.

[A]

Yeah, basically, that's what it was.

[B]

So you have a buddy who you trusted, go ahead and tell you, hey, dude, bitcoin crypto is the move.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And did you just jump right in? Like, how that. How that work out?

[A]

I didn't go all in. I took a portion of it because everybody told me I was crazy, Right. They're like. Because I originally called this guy crazy when he was doing it because he. He put a large amount in right off the bat. And it took me like a year because I first saw it when I was a cop, but I couldn't touch it because of all of our cash seizures. I was like, man, this is gonna be too weird for me, buying this dark web type thing. When I first saw it, so. But when I wasn't a cop, I dove into it and I put like 40 grand in and within like six weeks, it was 250k.

[B]

And I was like, what'd your wife say?

[A]

She said, wow, that's good, honey. Pretty much. She's like, wow, I know you can do it. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

It's because you're an overachiever, bro. She's just like, not all by it.

[A]

It was just like. She was just as long as the card works when she swipes. Yeah, that's all. I don't think she has any passwords to any accounts. No, nothing. It's just like, she's like that meme of just like it's swipes and it works like, okay, it's good, then we're good. Yeah, yeah. As long as I can make it happen. And that's always been my thing, is that she's never had to work other than being a mother, which is the hardest job in the world.

[B]

It is.

[A]

So the minute we got together, you know, she had a job. And then I said, you don't have to work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then she was like, okay, and start having kids. And she's never worked other than, like I said, being a mom, which is super, super tough.

[B]

It is.

[A]

But, yeah, that's it. So I've always just said, I'm gonna make it happen. We need money. I'm gonna make it happen.

[B]

So you ended up transitioning. 40,000. And this is in 2017. Okay. So 2017, you end up investing 40K. Which, I mean, dude, in 2017, as even a retiree cop, 40K is a nice chunk of change still. It is, it is. A lot of people do they. They trip off just investing like a thousand dollars sometimes, right?

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

So 40k and then you end up flipping it to a quarter mil. What happens next?

[A]

Then I thought I was a genius and I said, I'm the greatest gift. Wall street ain't got nothing on me. I thought I was the wolf of Wall Street. No, no, no, we made it. Yeah, yeah. I was, you know, wiping my eyes with a hundred dollar bills. No, no. So no, it was 250k and then it crashed. We all thought it was going to the moon at that point in time. Futures markets were just coming out for it. CFTC was coming out with thing. And then the whole market crashed. I wasn't down. I mean, I lost. It had dropped down to like 80 grand. Right. The 40K turned to 250. And then instantly. Yeah, but you were still 80K. I was still?

[B]

Yeah, you were still up.

[A]

So I was like, okay, all right. That didn't go. It didn't keep going the way they thought it was going to keep going. So I was like, okay, this isn't the end all be all. And I was still trying to figure it out. We still had some decent money from selling our house in the Bay Area. I did run a spearfishing retail business, and I taught free diving, and I built gear, so we had that as well, to, like, just bring in some money. And then I worked construction with my dad when he needed me, three days a week, so I did that stuff. But I still knew crypto was the future. Like, all those things were good and we could live off of it, but it wasn't creating, like, what I was surrounded by. Newport beach, right? I. That wasn't going to make me millions.

[B]

Yeah, Newport. Newport's another level, bro.

[A]

Oh, I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, one of my neighbors, you know, they started Acorns. Another one just sold his company for 250 million. The guy down the street literally moves countries with the amount of money he has. So the people that started the Baby Carrots lived two blocks from us. Just opulent type of wealth. Like just crazy levels.

[B]

No, absolutely. So what was the next move after that?

[A]

Yeah, so I just started studying. I just started listening to everything I could, reading everything I could, jumping into telegram, discords, whatever it was, and talking to some of these early people in it, like investors. And I realized very quickly these people were smart. Like, okay, being in police work, you can kind of like, tell, like, when people are, you know, just, all right, this is a knuckle dragger. Or like, ooh, this guy has some insight. And I could tell these guys were smart and what they were talking about. And when I was learning about financial markets, I could see where it was going. And the biggest thing is our phones. They're changing everything. Adoption curves. Like, how technology moves. Even when I coach swimming, we tried to move people from a cash check paying system to using card, and there was a huge uproar. We lost, like, half our team because we weren't getting paid on time all the time. So I said, hey, we're moving to this system where you put your credit card or your debit card in and it just goes, pays. And they're like, you can't tell us how we're going to pay. And I was like, okay, well. And they. Half of them left. This is like early 2000s. And so I just saw that, okay, this is coming And I ended up cashing out my retirement. At that time it was like 100, 110 grand maybe. I cashed out my retirement and my deferred comp and I told my dad and I talked to my wife and I said, hey, I'm going all in. We looked at real estate. We actually came out here back then doing spec homes, maybe getting into some multifamily. And I was like, none of this is going to do what I think this will do. And so we went all in with like 110k and like 2019 at the bottom of the bear market when people were saying it was dead. Yeah.

[B]

So 110k investment and then when did it start pushing it to the limit?

[A]

Yeah. So what happened was, is as the cycle ramped up, crypto usually is on a four year cycle. That may change with institutional flow coming in this year, we'll see. But it's usually on a four year cycle based on this mechanism called the having. Some people argue that it's also just the business cycle or liquidity events, but every four years there's a massive upturn and then a downturn and we were just ramping up. And I had found basically, like when you mentioned blockfi, they were the first yield platform that would give you yield on your Bitcoin or your Ethereum or whatever it was first instrument that really did that for traditional folks, like normal folks. So when they came out with their product, what I did was I had put $10,000 in Ethereum at like 156 bucks and I had put around 80 into Bitcoin and then some other ones off to the side. When that product came out, I basically supersized my portfolio. Every time the token would double in price, I would borrow half of it and buy more of it. And so I did that with Bitcoin from pretty much $10,000 all the way up to like 40 grand. And then Etherium from 156 bucks all the way up to like 2500 dollars. And I just kept supersizing my portfolio to where my personal stack went from like 150 grand to like, I don't know, 2.53 million. Somewhere in that range. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

So at that stage of the game, what is your thought process? You're like, is this a longevity play? Are you investing in other investments? What was your thought process?

[A]

Yeah, so at that point in time, I was pretty. I was surrounded by wealthy people and who loved to talk to me because they like police stories. Right. So. And a lot of financial people So I met my current partner, Brit, who works with me now. He worked for a, an investment bank basically and he was their institutional trader on their desk. Him and I would talk about markets and I was trying to learn from him. My partner who ended up being my partner was my neighbor. Their family started Acorns. They did E offering, took Monster or was Hanson's public. And I basically started orange peeling. These guys, we call it. I started getting them in on bitcoin. I would send them if things tell them to look at it. And they all got in it. They wanted to start a fund. So I originally did a pitch deck and I took this fund and I started going to wealthy people and like we started pitching them on it and saying hey, this and that. Then I just realized very quickly I was like, I don't want to manage people's money. I'm not a money manager. I have no idea. I'm comfortable with my own. No idea. Then I said, well, I'm really good at security stuff. There's a mining play in crypto. I was like, let's be miners. So my partner said okay. So basically we ripped out the bottom floor where Acorn started and I built a large scale scale ethereum mine, like 600 GPUs and I started mining. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

And for the beginners that are listening right now and they're like, dude, this is sounds pretty interesting. What is mining with crypto?

[A]

Yeah, so mining is basically, it's a proof of work concept. Ethereum is no longer proof of work. They pretty much killed GPU mining for everybody. Bitcoin is still mining. You can still mine Bitcoin ASICs though. So it's applied. I remember what exactly an ASIC stands for, but it's a computer that only mines bitcoin. So basically there's an algorithm and a problem and the machines try to solve this problem. And if it solves the problem, it gets the block reward every 10 minutes. In Bitcoin there's a new block and if your machine solves it, you get the reward for it. So basically my GPUs for Ethereum would solve these problems. And then you can either solo mine or go to a liquidity pool. It's all kind of technical stuff, but basically I was making really good money. I was doing like 1.2 Bitcoin a month. Cause we settled in bitcoin or it was like 15 to 17 Ethereum. And in cash I was making anywhere from 40 to 70 grand. And it was just pretty much myself, my father, his son and My partner.

[B]

What is everyone else telling you right now when you're like trying to explain this concept or are you keeping it to yourself?

[A]

I pretty much just kept it to myself because we didn't need anybody. Yeah, I built the mine. My partner and I pretty much, you know, funded it ourselves. I just built it. I was able to go get all the GPUs. I learned how to do it like just getting on the interwebs and like figuring out how to actually configure the gpu. I knew how to build computers from like gaming back in the day. So I just built them all and started just building this thing. And then with a cash flow of like, you know, 40 to 70 grand a month, with no employees, with no partners, with no, I didn't need anybody.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Yeah, so it was like I had zero overhead minus like a ten thousand dollar power bill and two thousand dollar rent. It was just hand over fist for us at that time.

[B]

Yeah, it's extremely powerful, profitable with the margins. Man, that's awesome. So here's, here's the million dollar question. It truly is because there's going to be, people are going to ask and they're going to be like, dude, how do you do it? So how did you do it? How did you go ahead and learn how to go ahead and mine for bitcoin?

[A]

I just got online in the forums and I had figured out there was guys who had done it before. And actually I'll give a shout out to one of the OG miners. He, I contacted on, on, on Twitter from anonymous shit poster, you know, account that I had and say, hey, I really want to do this stuff. How do you do it? And he broke it down for me and then I had another consultation. I paid a lot of money for another guy who had a very big YouTube channel. And I said, hey, I'll pay you 500 bucks for an hour of your time. And he was like, I don't really do this. And I was like, I know, but I've watched all your videos, but I have some questions. And I was like, 500,000 bucks, what do you want? And I was like, I just want to spend an hour, I have some questions. I'm not asking for all the secret sauce, but just if you could point me in the right direction because I don't want to, I don't want to make stupid mistakes that are going to cost me bigger money. And I said, here's what I'm trying to do, here's what it is. And he did it. He got on the phone with me. And then I figured out, okay, this is how I do this. And I was pretty good about having mentors. I didn't make a lot of mistakes when I was younger because, you know, my dad either put good coaches in front of me or himself or whatever. I just, I listened to people who were living a good life, and I just didn't have to make those mistakes myself. So I knew from this, I was like, okay, I just need to find somebody who's crushing in this space, and I'm just going to pay them to tell me what they know and not make the mistakes myself and waste thousands of dollars doing it. And that's what I did. And I got. I got access to these guys, dude. And.

[B]

And I. I feel like, you know, ever since I got into the online space, that's exactly what I've done every single step of the way. It's just, I've just paid people that are more experienced already successful.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And they'd have the exact information and the blueprint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the road that they can make it very easy for me.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they're just also going to confirm what you maybe already know as well, because you don't know because unless you. You've done it already, sometimes you just need that confirmation, like, okay, I'm doing the right thing, and just keep forging forward. And maybe they haven't thought of something you're doing and they're like, oh, that's a really good idea. And then you're like, okay, I can really push this one hard. And that's what I did.

[B]

No, I love that, man. And then overall, you've been doing this since 2017 now, all the way up to where we're currently in. What is it, September of 2025.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah. It's insane, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you've been able to go ahead and. And scale.

[A]

Scale your.

[B]

Your crypto business with that. So now you're getting to more of mentorship and coaching in the online space. And it's time. Because you're like, dude, I'm not a selfie guy. Right. Neither was I. But I feel like people that have success in certain niches and industries, you are doing yourself a disservice by not giving access to people. Because just like you said, dude, you paid somebody off of YouTube. The guy's like, I really don't knew this. That is the stupidest thing, in my opinion, that any YouTuber with a following.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can do is not have a coaching program, especially if you have a huge following. Right. And me, I'm the reverse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't got a massive following on YouTube. I need a start, like I was telling you. Yeah, yeah, I need to start. But I've been massively, you know, decently successful in the coaching space, but I focus on niched businesses. So with. Within your program, within your mentorship, basically, you take a beginner. Okay, and what is the process that you take a beginner to go ahead and start generating the same type of either revenue or results that you've been able to experience?

[A]

Well, I think the biggest thing that I first do is I give them a financial education from my point of view, because I think a lot of people don't have an understanding of what money truly is. So I try to do that to, like, hey, you know, money is ultimately the value that you create in the world and. And whether or not you're being compensated fairly for it. Right. It's your energy. So we start there. And then I also supplement a lot of other things because I think a lot of people are sometimes afraid to be called out or compromised or whatever. Like, it's my way or the highway where I'm like, I have only been successful because I feel like I take a lot of ideas from everybody else and then I create my own. But I want you to listen to other people as well. So it's not just. Just me that you're listening to, because it just, you know, so that's. The other thing is I give a lot of resources, things that I use on my journey. And then I think the other thing that I do is I try to make them. Make it safe for them so that they understand, okay, this is a safe place. And then I do, you know, like, I've just had some. Actually some calls since we've been back from Dallas, and the minute I start going on, I was like, I'm gonna show you a lot today, just so you know that this is all real. Because most people don't understand how the crypto space works. And as soon as I do it, they're like, oh, my goodness, I did not understand how large and how many things are being built in this space. And that's what it looks like to start with me, is basically, I'll show you everything, and then we'll start getting the reps in, because you have to learn it. It's still early.

[B]

You know, a couple things that you said, man, it ties into. Directly into your law enforcement career. When you had your sergeant who was great at everything, and, you know, he would show you the path. Very similar attributes as how you were probably talking to your current clients. Right. So very unique how that happens, guys. You know, your environment really, really, really, really reflects the type of person that you are or the experiences that you've gone through. Right. Great, man. So if somebody want to get into crypto now, okay, what would be three steps that you would give a beginner right now listening to this? And they're like, dude, how can I go ahead and do more research to see if this is.

[A]

For me, research is interesting because you're.

[B]

Going to get from a beginner perspective. Yeah, because I know you're like, super genius, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I'm deep in the weeds on it. I mean, the research from a beginner, man, that's a tough one.

[B]

Would you say like a podcast, a specific YouTube channel, like somebody like that you can refer to?

[A]

I mean, yeah, I would say the number one podcast that I always recommend is we studied billionaires, and it was Michael Saylor and Preston Pish. And this is from 2020. Yeah, that's the number one podcast. I say, because when you hear that, that's the biggest thing that changes your financial understandings. That's the number one podcast that I like for normies, because, yeah, like you said, yeah, that's what we call them, normies, because in the early days, we were listening to way different people. And there are people that talked about bitcoin on like Rogan show for a long time. Andreas Antonopoulos is one of the early bitcoiners that changed a lot of our understanding of it. But Michael Saylor changed it for traditional folks. He is, you know, was the head of MicroStrategy now strategy, and people really resonate with what he has to say. A podcast that I do listen to on the regular and actually we were in Discord Rooms together back in 2017. Is a guy named Scott Melker Wolf of All Streets. That's a great podcast that's on YouTube. He runs it every day. And you can actually probably go back and see everything that he has done. That's a great place to start as well. And then there's another guy who actually, I was in Discord rooms back in 2017, followed my thing. A lot of these guys, we have similar trajectories, right. Some of us made a lot of money, lost it all. Is another guy named Rand Nooner. And I was actually listening to him on the way over here. He made a ton of money in 2017, like, I want to say $100 million, and then lost at all same thing with a hedge fund in the next run. And he's back up again. So, like, these are guys that have been the space. They went on and created content. Some of the guys that I started with went on and started trading. There's a guy, he started trading. His name's Crypto Face. Unreal trader trades literally $20 million positions. Now, I went into the investing ledger, leveraging and did no social media crypto Face started trading. One of the most successful traders now is hunted by big exchanges. Scott Melko and randuner started trading. You know, went on to do hedge funds and a very successful podcast. And I just sat there and just provided for my family.

[B]

But, dude, I mean, you have a life, what I like to call life by design. You have a beautiful family, dude. You're able to do what you want. You're able to go ahead and you have the options, and that's what it's about, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what would you say is your biggest why right now? Dude, what would you say is your biggest why?

[A]

I mean, it's always my family, of course. Yeah. It's always.

[B]

Is there something specific within your family, like maybe building, you know, options for your. Your girls or your son or.

[A]

Or. Yes and no. I get torn on that. And my wife and I have talked about that multiple times. I want to give my kids opportunity, but I don't want to give them wealth. Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

At all.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

I want zero wealth for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't mind helping them because, you know, the big thing, my father, I remember him giving, he always gave whatever he could. Right. I needed 20 bucks for gas. I needed whatever. Always did it. And I saw the work he did, and it just, you know, I. I so appreciate how hard he worked. And then my mom kept the house afloat, so, like, I always knew what his dollar was worth. And I remember I had just bought our house, or I. We were getting ready to buy the house. I had bought my wife's ring, which was really expensive. I was working ton of overtime, and I didn't have the deposit for our house, so my dad helped me with the down payment, Right. And it wasn't much because I did a 3.5, but I knew what that money was worth to him because I knew how hard he worked. Right. So there was like 15 grand is what he gave me, or 17 grand to put our first down payment down. And so I think for my kids, I'll help them with things like that, but I definitely don't want to leave them A fund or anything like that, because I've seen what that does. So I think the really good thing for me that I want to leave them is an opportunity where, like, if they want to build something, if they want to go and do something, I will provide the opportunity. Whether I will help seed fund it, whether knowledge, they. Yeah. Whether I'll give them the job that they need within it. But I don't necessarily want the nepotism of it. I want them to earn their position.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because my dad, I wasn't lead man when I started working, because construction, I was low man on the total pole. I did the jobs right. Sometimes when I was digging ditches, I didn't even get the tool. Like, I had to use the hand tools where everybody else is using all the rototillers and everything else. So he didn't give me, you know, Foreman right off the bat. I had to earn that for 10 years of hard work with him. So, yeah, because I already think my kids, as much as I love them, I think they're soft. I think they're. They're not like, you know, I didn't grow up as hard as my dad did, and I know my kids are growing up amazing, and I just want them to have that drive because I know you didn't get anything. I don't feel like I got a whole lot. I never expected anything from my parents. And I think I've just seen families that go sideways when the kids are given everything.

[B]

Dude, that's a great perspective, man. I mean, I've seen it both ways, you know, especially interviewing quite a few people on this podcast now where, you know, it's usually two different paths. Right. To generalize it, it's one path of, like, you gotta make it happen because you go through the mud, you go through the trenches, you eat a shit sandwich, and you just have to make it happen from all the pain and experiences and then not wanting to be in that environment anymore. Right?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And then the second phase is typically, you know, you were raised in a household where, you know, your parents, they guided you and they told you, and the parents probably had a great job or they were probably great role models. So they already had the inspirations to be like their parents, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I've seen it both ways. But no, I like it, dude. I. I like the breakdown. You're giving them the options, possibly, like, JV with them, have them do all the hard work and the fundamentals to keep them successful. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because what's the point of giving them the Success automatically, and then they don't.

[A]

Know how to run it well. And I think the other thing, too, is that, you know, and I'm sure you may or may not feel a certain way about this, but everything that you've built, you built.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you did it. Yeah. And there's in a sense of pride and. And also you've built that pathway to know no matter what you encounter in life, you can survive it 100% because of whatever you come through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whereas, like, if I seed a $5 million project for one of my kids and they go on and build this massive company and then it crashes, are they going to wait for me to seed another one for them to fail on it? Or do you know, like, I built this. It all went away. I can do it again. Right. So, like, if everything fails for me, I know I can go out there and I can start again. Like, I can do it. It's going to suck, but I know that I can do this because I've already done it. I built those pathways of hard work, of not quitting, because I didn't. Oh, how can I do this? No one helped me start it. No one gave me the money. So, yeah, I'm trying to think of that now because obviously my kids are getting older.

[B]

Time flies, bro. Just like we say we're getting old, brother.

[A]

It flies so fast.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I think I have changed some things too. Like with our kids, I. I try not to tell them how smart they are, even though they are. I just try to tell them they work hard. Like, you did this because you worked really hard. And I just want them to focus on that because I'm sure you've interviewing all the people you do, all the people you come across. It doesn't matter how smart you are.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

They may have great ideas, but it's the people that constantly show up. Even if they're not the smartest, even if it's not the best. Yes. As long as you keep going. Like you said, imperfect action, just take action. Those are the people that ultimately win. So I want my kids not to focus on how intelligent they are. I want them to focus on hard work. You made this happen because you kept showing up. You keep coming every day because, oh, your smart idea doesn't work. And now they're like, I'm not smart enough, and they just quit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whereas if, like, I work hard, I'm gonna make this happen. Boom. They can keep going.

[B]

I love that, man. I love that. Okay, so this is the level up, as you know. We're about self help, about uplifting beginners, nine to five first responders. What would you tell your audience right now that's going to listen to this interview because you have such a great, compelling story? Dude. I mean, people are probably going to think you're lying. I'm just keeping. Bro. You know how many times on socials they're like, you fucking liar.

[A]

Well, here's, here's, here's the best part is you can Google a lot of the things from police work and there's a few stories that come up. Some good, some bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the other thing is, is everybody that's been on me with a call in crypto, because it's a blockchain, I have shown everyone on a call that I have actually done what I've said I've done because it's right there.

[B]

Yeah, dude. And I'm pretty sure in the next coming up months, we're going to start doing a little bit more content creation and you're going to be showing all that jazz, so it'll be good.

[A]

Dude, you're going to force me.

[B]

But what would be a couple words of encouragement, man. So this is your audience right here. Just think about like you were on stage just like Saturday, last Saturday, and just give them words, encouragement to level up.

[A]

Dude. I would just say keep going. Every day, show up and just keep going. Do not quit. I have a saying. Don't get captured. And there were plenty of times in life where I was not in a good place. I probably wasn't the best husband, wasn't the best father, but I just kept going. And every day I should take that. It's not just keep going. It's literally, no one else is responsible for the way that you feel and how things are going for you. And no matter how you feel or what you're going through, it's nobody else's fault. You just have to take accountability and if you can push through that, you're going to succeed always.

[B]

I love that, guys. And that's the level up, guys. Matt, where can they find you? Instagram, Facebook. What are the handles?

[A]

Yeah, Instagram is precisionmatt.

[B]

Precision mat. Okay. And then anything else that you want to leave them with as far as just like, any information, they should study up on crypto before they come and talk to you.

[A]

No, no, I think, I think, yeah. I think the best thing is just like in police work, if they have nothing, they don't have anything, then it's very easy because they're going to learn it the right way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not going to do anything dumb right off the bat and lose money.

[B]

Absolutely. So, guys, whether you're a first responder 9 to 5 or you're looking to invest into the blockchain chain crypto, but you don't know how like me, right? I'm gonna go ahead and start investing with Matt here in December. I told him, dude, I'm so slam right now. I got a kid on the way. I'm moving, selling a house and all that jazz. But it's the future. I mean, you can't stop it, guys. Okay? So if you guys are interested in going ahead and learning how to invest in crypto for the future, for your family, for generational wealth, make sure to shoot them a DM on Instagram. With that being said, guys, we are currently top five right now. What? What's the date today, Emilio?

[A]

September 10th.

[B]

September 10th, guys. That's right. September 10th. We are top five in all categories. Number one in business on Apple podcasts because of you guys. Okay? We're gonna try to hit 5 million downloads this month. With that being said, leave a five star review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. This is Paul Alex, the Level podcast. We'll catch you on the next one.

[A]

Peace. It.