← The Level Up Podcast w/ Paul Alex
The Level Up Podcast w/ Paul Alex
Nike, Ford, Pepsi… What They Get Wrong About Innovation (Bud Caddell)
00:29:00
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- [00:03]
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- [00:32]
Bud Cadell
First advice my father gave me when I was starting a company was like, don't have partners. And I thought, oh, that's his baggage now. Mine. And the more that have gotten it, it does require a huge amount of work, requires a huge investment. It's almost like more time and attention than you give to a spouse.
- [00:48]
Paul Alex
Yes, yes.
- [00:50]
Bud Cadell
Money changes people. You find out a lot about someone in that way.
- [00:54]
Paul Alex
Man, my business relationship was way more stressful. I mean, my marriage is not stressful at all. But to have my business relationship feel like that was the marriage, I was just like, oh, my God, like, what is going on? Right? And then you're right. I totally agree with you, man. Money does change certain people. Not everybody, but certain people. I always tell people this. I would never partner up unless. Guys, welcome back to Love All Podcast. This is Paul Alex. Today we have another phenomenal interview. I'm sitting down with Bud Cadell, and he's the founder of Nobel, a global consulting firm that helps companies move faster, lead faster, and actually make change stick. Guys, okay? From working with brands just like Nike and Ford to teaching leaders how to turn culture into the biggest advantage, Bud's here to actually break down what real transformation looks like. So, Bud, before you became the guy helping global companies transform, brother, we. What was life like for you early on? Like, what kind of work were you doing or mindset shaped you the way you see business and people today?
- [02:10]
Bud Cadell
Yeah, well, I was an extreme nerd. You have to start there. And I was the product of two generations of entrepreneurs. So my grandfather and my father both had their own companies, construction, which I tried to do. But if you grow up in Houston, where I did, and you pour concrete in the summer, you quickly want to work on computers. So that's where I started. And I, you know, I got lucky. Got my first computer when I was five. My father was like, he poured concrete, wood. He was a bit of a nerd. And I was programming by 10, leading tech at a startup when I was 16 and kind of fell into this situation in New York. Where I could roll up to the CEO of Pepsi and advise them about this crazy thing, the Internet, and how they should be spending more money there and engaging customers. That's how I got my start.
- [02:58]
Paul Alex
Dude, that's insane. Was there a moment, like, in your career when you realized you didn't just want to work inside organizations anymore, you actually want to fix how they worked? What do you think triggered that shift?
- [03:12]
Bud Cadell
Oh, definitely. So years and years ago, I spent a ton of my time building product innovation labs and technology labs inside big companies, and almost all of them failed miserably. And the one project that broke my back, we were working for a giant retailer, and they wanted more families to shop in their stores for Christmas, for Christmas gifts. And so I had this really rad team who designed this magic wand that kids could check out at aisles and tap toys and that would build a wish list for Santa and fire it off. And I presented it to the CEO of the company, and they gave a big speech about it internally. It was going to be their next huge thing. Like, within moments, we were trying to figure out if we could buy a factory in China to build enough of these to launch it at Christmas. And then the cmo, the head of stores, the head of operations, got into a huge fight about how no one wanted to fund it. It was too risky for the organization. And I just. It was this really awesome idea that we had tested with real families that loved the idea. My team, which were, like, really brilliant kids, were so excited by it. And then I just watched the dysfunction inside this company, and they were like a really great company with brilliant people. But the dysfunction, because no one's incentives were lined up to do new kind of work. No one knew how to have the hard conversations about how to choose this versus something else. And I just thought, I'm solving the wrong problem. Like, going into companies and trying to help them innovate is great, but ultimately companies just end up with a glut of ideas and they don't know how to execute those ideas. And I thought I should try to figure out how to solve that problem, because otherwise I'm just dumping PowerPoint decks and fancy slides onto companies, and they don't know what to do with it. So that was that moment. That project broke me. I still think about it from time to time. I have a prototype of it somewhere in a storage unit, but I just realized I was solving the wrong problem.
- [05:03]
Paul Alex
Dude, I love that. I loved how you realized that. So it's fair enough to say that you've seen some Big companies with big budgets still fail at change, Right? So what would you say is the number one reason why most transformation efforts fall apart?
- [05:19]
Bud Cadell
I'll tell you a story about it. So I was working with a big Hollywood studio and working with one of the heads of the studio, and she kept saying, I want people to be innovative. She had hired a bunch of people from Google to come into the organization, and she was just banging her head on the desk thinking, why are we not getting innovative ideas? Why are the ideas inside the company not reaching filmgoers? And the truth is that every single movie had to still be a huge success. There was no room to make any, like, experiments to try anything new. And. And this person was lovely and brilliant, but if. If an idea was shared in a brainstorm and she didn't like it, she wouldn't even notice that she rolled her eyes. So it was the culture, and she had learned that from her last manager, and so it was the culture of the organization. I like to think that innovation is a product of a system, right? And it's a system of how we work together. It's making room for risk and experimentation, and it's all those things. But it's not just saying declaring, hey, let's be innovative. I think that most leaders don't realize the amount of, like, systemic work that needs to go on to actually produce new things inside the company.
- [06:29]
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- [07:06]
Paul Alex
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- [07:55]
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- [08:26]
Paul Alex
So when you started your current company right now, Nobel, what problem did you see in the consulting world that made you think, like, dude, I could do this better.
- [08:34]
Pipedrive Advertiser
Right?
- [08:35]
Bud Cadell
Yeah, it was the 200 slide decks that McKinsey, BCG, Deloitte all deliver to clients and they just sit there stale for years. That's the problem that we saw in big consulting. And we've built this weird little boutique consulting practice that picks up after that. I get a call probably once a month from a big organization saying, hey, McKinsey just dropped off this 100 slide PowerPoint deck. No one knows what to make of it or how to move it forward. And I thought, you know, the work of doing these things is the actual strategy work. Figuring out how to help new ideas thrive inside companies, how to fight against like inertia and the status quo. Like that's the strategy work. It's not the, like, you know, assessing market size and things like that. That's easy. Especially in the world of AI, that's easier than ever. It's the work of trying to make things happen and make change happen inside companies.
- [09:25]
Paul Alex
Oh, absolutely, man. So you let change. Well, you, you've led change projects across like 20 different industries, which is pretty remarkable, brother. But let's talk about some chaotic situations. Okay, so what was the most chaotic situation you ever walked into and what did it teach you about people under pressure?
- [09:48]
Bud Cadell
Oh, I once was standing in front of about 50 VPs at a fashion and apparel company and I was meant that day to facilitate some new strategy work for them. And two minutes before I get up there, the CEO walks up and says, I think we're going to have to declare bankruptcy because we're not going to be able to cover our loans. And, oh, here's by the way, here's this guy that we brought in to facilitate strategy. That's probably as most chaotic as it's ever been. I got up there and invited everyone to take one huge breath and said, okay, how are we going to solve this problem? What are we going to do as a result of that? What's a scenario look like in which we try to fight against declaring bankruptcy? What's the scenario in which we try to recover from it as quickly as possible and we commit to it and just put those people to work, which I think is what they absolutely needed that day. Because just having that information dumped on them with no ability to plan and act as a response to it, I think would have just sent them spinning.
- [10:54]
Paul Alex
No, absolutely. I think you handled that situation pretty. Pretty well, man. Because, man, that. That is insane to be presented in front of an entire company. And they just said, hey, we're going bankrupt.
- [11:09]
Bud Cadell
I can't imagine that the things you see.
- [11:11]
Paul Alex
No, no, absolutely. So, you know, the level of podcast is primarily to help a lot of beginner entrepreneurs. So for someone that's new to leadership, let's talk about that real quick. What's the simplest way to understand why change feels so hard for teams?
- [11:30]
Bud Cadell
Well, I think if you're new to leadership, you know, the first lesson you can take away is all the bad bosses you may have worked for. I worked for a lot of bad bosses before I ever became a manager, and that taught me a ton of, like, what not to do. And those lessons are so helpful. So even if someone hasn't been a manager or leader before, we've all worked under someone and we. Or we've all seen what bad leadership looks like at school and our homes and other places. So there's lots of lessons that we can take from there. And then just look at the world around us. Like, change is the only constant. And I know that sounds trite, but it's so true. I think we all feel that way. And so there used to be a time where you could be a leader and your job was just to point people at the problem and make sure all the stuff was out of their way so that they could do their best work. Unfortunately, now it's that, plus always preparing people that some kind of change is going to happen, how to metabolize it, how to change their behaviors at work, how to help them. I think the number one thing that we see is you have to help people understand why and why now. Like when we survey teams who are in the middle of the change, the most fatigued people are the ones who just can't explain to you, like, why the organization is doing what it has to do right now. And you know, comms doesn't have to be this huge production. I think some people kind of take it like too far and think that it can solve too many things. But just clearly articulating like, hey, this is the scenario that we find ourselves in. This is what we have to do as a result. And here's what I need from you can go so far with so many employees, man.
- [13:03]
Paul Alex
I totally agree with that. It's about being a servant leader, man. It's about articulating about, you know, going ahead and being transparent, having integrity, telling your employees like, hey dude, like this is the situation that we're in. It's not all, you know, dandelions. And, and this is, this is the real situation. This is what I need you guys to do in order for us to win as a team, right? So it ties right into Culture. And I'm big on culture, brother. So let's talk about that real quick. What's one moment when you saw Culture alone make or break a company?
- [13:37]
Bud Cadell
H so many times. I was working with one of the fastest growing startups that has ever occurred. I mean, someone who went from selling some things on eBay to $150 million business in a year with change and chaos and launching like physical stores and expanding online shopping and so many different things happening at the same time. And really what I saw Culture do in that moment is stabilize a super fast growing organization. Right? Like this was, this was a leader who didn't have a ton of experience. This was an entrepreneur who literally went from like, I think I can do some, some cool stuff and make, you know, pay my rent to holy cow, now I have hundreds of million dollars of investment. What am I doing? And trying to do their best in that situation. But they had created such a strong culture around them in terms of what they valued, what was, what would be rewarded, what would be punished, that people understood that culture really quickly. So they were able to hire a ton of people and get them into that culture because it was, it felt so strong. Like you could walk into that office and you understood kind of the tone and the vibe and the, and the tempo of that company. And they were able to sustain that huge amount of growth just through Cultural, like through so many ways. Now of course, like, as they got bigger and bigger and bigger, they needed the kind of systems that you start to see in like mid and big companies. But to get through that initial period of like, I've got An idea to, oh no, like we are now so big, I don't know what to do with myself. That was all culture that stabilized them through that process.
- [15:18]
Paul Alex
I feel with majority of startup companies because I've done a couple of startups, man, I mean it goes through straight grit and discipline and it's like having those key needle mover, I would say teammates, I don't even like to call them employees, but teammates, man, that have your back no matter what you go through. Right. So I'm all about helping the little guy, right. That beginner entrepreneur, just like you said. You gave that great example of somebody who was selling some, some things on ebay to building $150 million startup. So you worked with big brands like Nike and Ford, man, and they move fast because they have systems, right? So for the listeners who are potentially starting out right now, they don't have all the resources that Nike and Ford does. How can a smaller entrepreneur or team move just as fast but without all those resources? What would you say?
- [16:04]
Bud Cadell
I mean, I think back to when I started my company. So I started my company with maybe 15 grand in the bank and a bet that I could build a company with the idea that I had and you know, and probably like 4 grand rent per month wondering like, okay, how am I going to do this quickly? And the way that we, I was able to move quickly was having a very, very strong idea about who my customer was and what they wanted. And in my space that meant not trying to sell my services to every company but really get specific in terms of like, I'm looking for people who are frustrated with being stuck and have tried working with big consulting companies before and are tired of it. And I'm not going to like try to be everything to everyone. I'm going to go after that specific, like that specific audience and just go as fast as I can at that. So it. That just gave me so much focus. I think that's what entrepreneurs who succeed really have is that ability to focus and not try to like bake the entire cake at once or attack the entire ocean at a time of what they can do. Like that's, that's also so exciting as an entrepreneur to be able to have a really strong, compelling idea with a single customer in mind and go after it. And then from there it's about how you make decisions with the very first people that you hire. Right. Like if you can figure out how to make faster decisions, you can do so many things as a small company and so many small companies just get mired in, you know, within the first six months. Like co founders falling out, Partners getting fed up with each other because they didn't have a way to air their disagreements and then decide to disagree and commit. Right. It's just sort of like one person maybe would take the lead, the other person would have hurt feelings or there'd be some kind of passive aggressive behavior. And like, I always tell like brand new companies that the first thing they have to learn how to do is disagree with each other.
- [17:55]
Paul Alex
Man, I. You speak. It's the choir, brother. I mean, I, I learned, I learned from experience, the hard way.
- [18:01]
Pipedrive Advertiser
You know, I would.
- [18:01]
Paul Alex
I told myself a couple years ago, I was like, I'll never have a partner. And then one of my coos did extremely well with one of my first startups and I was just like, you know what, dude, you deserve it. Let's. Let's go ahead and do another startup together. And I'm telling you, man, yeah, you, you live and you learn. That's what I got to tell you guys. You live and you learn.
- [18:24]
Bud Cadell
The first advice my father gave me when I was starting a company was like, don't have partners. And I thought, oh, that's his baggage, not mine. And the more that have gotten it. And that's not to say, look, plenty of companies have partners, but it does require a huge amount of work, requires a huge investment. It's almost like more time and attention than you give to a spouse to make that relationship work.
- [18:46]
Paul Alex
Yes, yes.
- [18:48]
Bud Cadell
Good ones and bad ones. And you know, and I thought I could have told you in the first like month, I had no idea how to guess how this relationship was going to work out. Because money changes people and change, you know, you find out a lot about someone in that way. And also, like, there are so many running a business, there's so many edge cases and surprises and you have no clue how different people are going to react.
- [19:11]
Paul Alex
React, absolutely. I 100 agree with you. I mean, man, my business relationship was way more stressful. I mean, my marriage is not stressful at all. But like, to have my business relationship feel like that was the marriage, I was just like, oh my God, like, what is going on? Right? And then you're right. I totally agree with you, man. Money does change certain people. Not everybody, but certain people. And you live and you learn. That's all I got to say about that. I, I do have one key takeaway though, is I always tell people this. I would never partner up unless I didn't have that niche skill that my business partner is Bringing into play that I cannot do.
- [19:56]
Pipedrive Advertiser
Right?
- [19:56]
Paul Alex
And it goes down to my next question, bud. Are you more of a visionary or are you more of a hybrid entrepreneur that can do it all?
- [20:05]
Bud Cadell
I definitely can't do it all, but I find myself I can switch into tracks. So I have a strong vision for what I want the company to do. And then I have a really annoying eye for detail and for delivery. And in between, I need people who are operators who can make the business work and function and show me what good looks like. But I'm sort of the annoying guy who is like, both at the beginning and at the end of things, right? Like, I don't. It's not enough for me to give people a vision and let them go chase it. Like, I have to feel like if we're going to go up against the biggest consulting companies on the planet, like, we have to be solid, right? And our bar is even higher because our clients are taking a risk hiring a strange company that they've never heard of to come in and help them when it's way easier to hire a big consulting company and still fail. So I'm a vision and details person, but there's the middle altitude that I absolutely need smarter people around me to handle.
- [21:07]
Paul Alex
I love that. So you're, you're inserting those experts that are your teammates in order to operate what you need done. So you're more. I mean, I have a law enforcement background, brother, so I always like to use law enforcement references. You're basically the case agent and you're assigning your operators. Hey, hey, you guys go handle that. You guys handle this. I love it. So, bud, you studied how leaders adapt before everyone else sees the change coming. Okay, what are those leaders doing differently day to day?
- [21:42]
Bud Cadell
So I'm working with a leader at a giant food, sort of like a fast food slash fast casual dining restaurant. And that leader, I think, sees every trend before everyone else. And it's because they live in the spaces they're consumers spend time in. This is a leader who is still getting their like to do list done. But they live on TikTok, man. They live in YouTube, they read Reddit, they understand what's happening around them and they don't trust just the information that's being handed to them. It makes them, you know, kind of daunting sometimes to work with because they've heard of stuff before anybody else, especially on their team, but it makes them so in tune. Like we talk about, like, you look for signals, right? You look for signals of shifts around you and you don't, you don't see one thing, right? And respond to that. You see, you kind of keep your feelers out and you're like, I see a trend appearing. How do we get on this as fast as we can? And that leader has made their career in several different organizations, always being six months ahead. And it's because they live in those.
- [22:42]
Paul Alex
Spaces, dude, I love that. So they're essentially non stop doing market research. Even if they're already successful, they're just, they keep going at it.
- [22:52]
Bud Cadell
Absolutely.
- [22:53]
Paul Alex
I love that. So, but when you look at tomorrow's leaders, okay, especially those buildings from scratch, what mindset do they need to survive in in this unpredictable world right now?
- [23:08]
Bud Cadell
Humility, man. It's all about humility. It's all about. Because even if you're successful right now, that doesn't buy you that long, right? I mean, humility and cash flow, that's what I care about, right? Having, having the resilience inside your company, whether that's cash on hand, whether that's like, you know, people who aren't working 150% so that you can retask them on things. And then it's the humility to question, like, does what I know about this organization or this market or this consumer, has it changed? Right? And be curious. Humility is the beginning of curiosity, right? Like, you can't be curious if you're not humble. So I, I look for that when I hire people. I look for that when I look for clients to hire us. So that's my number one thing.
- [23:56]
Paul Alex
And for the beginners that are currently listening to this show right now, who are just trying to build a strong team, just like you had several times, man. But they're doing it for the first time, right? What's one rule that they can follow to create a culture that lasts?
- [24:15]
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- [24:43]
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- [25:13]
Bud Cadell
Hmm. I think the rule that people can follow to try to build a culture that lasts are look for the people who are cultural torchbearers, who care about the culture they build, they care about their impact on others, and they really want to build. I think I have seen so many small companies, like, kneecap themselves because they reach a certain size and they think, oh, I gotta hire a grown up now to come in and to fix things and to make us a grown up company. And they hire people who weren't builders who like, you know, were managing a big company before who didn't care about the culture of the company they're walking into. And I've seen those culture, those cultures become diluted. I've seen those companies spin out strategically because it's like five different people with five different visions for the future. So, like, can that person build, right? Are they going to roll up their sleeves? Are they going to clean the toilet? Whatever it is that is, like true about your organization and its size and maturity right now. And then do they care about culture? If you want to build a culture, you got to have people who care about culture.
- [26:16]
Paul Alex
No, absolutely. I agree about that, man. So this is the level up. What can our listeners actually go ahead and take one piece of strategy that's always worked for y'?
- [26:28]
Bud Cadell
All?
- [26:28]
Paul Alex
And I know this is hard to say, man, because there's so many, right? But based on your experience, what is your old faithful, man? What is something that you always think about when it comes down to mindset, when it comes down to going ahead and talking to these leaders, building these great companies like you've helped built in the past and in the future, what can you tell our listeners today?
- [26:50]
Bud Cadell
The one thing that they should focus on. That's a good one, Paul. I think you've got to, if you're an entrepreneur, I'm going to go to like delegation because that is the thing I see as one of the biggest challenges. But I say go further. So I talk about, don't just delegate to people, Deputize, right? Especially as your company starting to grow. Did I get you there with your, with your background? So what I want to say, right, delegation is like, hey, go do this task and bring me it back. Deputization is like, hey, here's an outcome I want you to go chase, go bring it back to me and tell me how you did it, right? And as you're growing an organization, you're always going to hit a moment where you can't do everything, right? Like I can't handle everything inside our company and I have to. If I just delegate, I'm still way too in the weeds of it. Right? But I have to ask myself, can I deputize this person to go chase that outcome? And also then that forces me to ask a very different question about hiring someone. It isn't about like, can they just do this task? It's can they really own this outcome and chase it? Is it going to be something that they wake up thinking about in the morning and then before they clock out at whatever time, 5 o' clock or later, that that's the thing that they made sure they got done that day. Right? It's a very different skill set and mindset to think about.
- [28:07]
Paul Alex
No, absolutely, man. And Bud, where can my audience actually find you?
- [28:12]
Bud Cadell
Brother, thanks for asking. People can always find us at nobl IO we write constantly with tools and resources for leaders of a lot of different organizational sizes. Just anyone who is banging their head on the wall trying to make change around them or in their organizations and they're just finding it really hard. We hope that we can be a good resource to anybody.
- [28:36]
Paul Alex
I love that. And then how about your social media? Instagram, LinkedIn? Where can people find you personally?
- [28:42]
Bud Cadell
They can. Yeah, they can find me. Bud Cadell B U D C A D D E L L On both Instagram and LinkedIn.
- [28:49]
Paul Alex
Guys, there you guys have it. Bud Cadell here on the Level Up Guys with Paul Alex. Guys, leave a five star review on Spotify, Apple podcasts and anywhere else where you guys are listening. This interview is going to change lives and level up your guys mindset. If you guys are looking to get into the industry and the world of consulting, we have the best of the best here being interviewed on the Level Up. Once again, guys share this with someone you care about, someone that you want to help level up their mindset.
- [29:15]
Bud Cadell
Today.
- [29:43]
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