In this episode of On The Line, Matt Gurney speaks with Mark Hertling, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant general, former commander of U.S. Army Europe, and a longtime commentator on military affairs and leadership.

The conversation begins with an unusual connection. Hertling had referenced one of Matt’s columns in a recent speech, which a Line reader flagged and sent along. That led to an invitation — and a wide-ranging discussion about the United States’ role in the world, the strain on Western alliances, and what comes next.

Hertling is, at heart, an optimist. He believes American leadership in the Western alliance can recover, even after years of damage, but cautions that rebuilding trust with allies will take time — likely a generation. Matt is a bit less optimistic, but confesses he believes that America, a country he loves, will at least try. The two discuss what went wrong, what can realistically be repaired, and why the long-term trajectory may still bend back toward stability.

The conversation also turns personal. Hertling speaks about his latest book, If I Don’t Return, which reflects on the life lessons he wanted to leave behind for his sons in case he didn’t return from war. It’s an emotional segment that resonated deeply with Matt, who has been thinking a great deal about what parents leave behind for their children in recent months.

It’s a thoughtful, and at times moving, conversation about leadership, legacy, and whether the West can find its footing again.

To order a copy of the general’s book, click here.

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On The Line: America will be effin' back — but maybe not for a while