Most sales problems start when the seller won't stop talking.

Mark Roberge (HubSpot's founding CRO, Harvard Business School lecturer, and co-founder of Stage 2 Capital) joins Matt and Luigi to challenge the loudest myths in sales and startup growth. His take is simple: great selling is not about pressure, slick pitches, or talking someone into a bad deal.

It's about asking better questions, finding the real problem, and knowing when to walk away.

The conversation also tackles a mistake that kills promising companies: scaling before customers are getting real value. Mark breaks down why rising revenue can fool founders, how to test product-market fit, and what must be true before a business earns the right to grow faster.

🍸 What you'll hear in this episode:

Why sales is about discovery, not persuasion
The questions that expose what a buyer really needs
How to reframe a bad decision without sounding like a jerk
Where ethical selling ends and buyer responsibility begins
Why cold calls still work better than people claim
The tradeoff between outreach volume and personalization
Why small dinners and face-to-face meetings are making a comeback
The danger of using revenue as your only scoreboard
Product-market fit, go-to-market fit, and building a durable moat
Why scaling too early can wreck a good company
The HubSpot negotiation move involving a handful of M&M's
Why Mark is donating the proceeds from The Science of Scaling to McLean Hospital

💡 Notable takeaway:

"Selling is about buying. It's about helping the buyer buy and solve their problems."

👤 About our guest:

Mark Roberge helped grow HubSpot from zero revenue to IPO as its founding Chief Revenue Officer. He now teaches at Harvard Business School, leads Stage 2 Capital, and created The Science of Scaling, an evidence-based framework for growing companies without outrunning customer value.

🎧 Why listen? Because this episode will help you sell smarter, spot bad growth early, and avoid scaling your business before it's ready.

🔗 Links + Stuff Mentioned

Sales Acceleration Formula: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Acceleration-Formula-Technology-Companies/dp/1119047072
Stage 2 Capital: https://www.stage2.capital/
Winning by Design Frameworks: https://winningbydesign.com
Force Management MEDIC Framework: https://forcemanagement.com
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markroberge/
Follow on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ScienceofScaling

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📲 Connect with the hosts

Follow along for behind-the-scenes clips, commentary, and things that don't make it into the episode.

• Matt Meehan: https://www.instagram.com/matthew.r.meehan • Luigi Rosabianca: https://www.instagram.com/luigi_rosabianca • The Liquid Lunch Project: https://www.instagram.com/theliquidlunchproject/

💬 One last thing

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