The Little Shaman: On Narcissists & Toxic Personalities

Episode 270: Narcissists Cannot See You | THIS Is What They See Instead

Host: The Little Shaman
Date: March 31, 2025

Overview

In this episode, The Little Shaman delves deeply into a core concept in understanding narcissistic personalities: narcissists fundamentally cannot perceive other people as they are. Instead, they create rigid, fantasy-based images of others that are disconnected from reality. This inability, rooted in psychological immaturity and self-loathing, underpins the toxic and destructive dynamics so common in relationships with narcissists. The episode dissects how this operates, its impact on victims, and why efforts to be seen or understood by a narcissist are ultimately futile — a realization the host describes as painful, but deeply liberating.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How People Usually See Each Other vs. Narcissists

• Normal Relationships: Our mental images of others evolve over time with new information and experiences.
• Narcissists:
  • Form static, fantasy-based images of others.
  • Images are resistant to change, regardless of new evidence.
  • New, contradictory information either gets ignored or causes the narcissist to swap the image entirely for a new one.
  • Quotes:
    • "The images that they hold of other people tend not to be informed by what they have seen and heard from the other person in any rational or realistic way." (01:36)

2. Whole Object Relations & Black-and-White Thinking

• Whole Object Relations: Ability to see someone as a whole, complex person with both good and bad qualities.
• Narcissists Lack This:
  • Think in strict binaries (good/bad, all/nothing).
  • Any perceived negative action flips a person from 'all good' to 'all bad' in their mind.
  • Quotes:
    • "They view the world through a very black and white binary lens. Something's either good or it's bad. And if it's good, then it has no bad qualities whatsoever." (04:09)

3. Idealization and Devaluation

• Narcissists often start by placing others (partners, friends) on pedestals (idealization).
• However, when a person inevitably contradicts the fantasy, they become entirely 'bad' (devaluation).
• The resulting image is not informed by the person’s reality, but by the narcissist’s fantasy and paranoia.
  • Quote:
    • "You don't match this fantasy image they have. You're fake, you're a liar, you're evil, you tricked them." (07:09)

4. Self-Loathing, Paranoia & Negativity Bias

• Narcissists’ internal landscape is filled with paranoia and self-hatred, leading them to perceive the world and people as threatening.
• Their default is to see others as dangerous, which intensifies any conflict and leads to living in continuous distrust.
  • Quote:
    • "This is a person who is pathologically terrified by any intimacy of any kind... and fervently believes down to their bones that everyone is attempting to harm each other and take advantage." (13:34)

5. The Doomed Nature of Relationships with Narcissists

• No matter what you do, you eventually become a threat or enemy in their narrative.
• Attempts to show your real self or earn their trust are futile.
  • Quote:
    • "The relationship, no matter what kind of relationship it is, is actually doomed from the start because of this." (11:30)

6. Lack of Stable Identity in Narcissists

• Narcissists lack a solid sense of self and create their identity in opposition to others.
• Their self-image is as much a fantasy as the image they have of you; both are childishly simplistic, like cartoon heroes and villains.
  • Quote:
    • "They define themselves in comparison or opposition to you... that's because of that whatever they think they are, whatever they want to be, you have to become the opposite." (17:34)

7. Projection and Interpersonal Dynamics

• Narcissists project their way of defining themselves onto others, assuming everyone else does the same.
• Leads to endless, circular arguments and feeling misunderstood, as the narcissist constantly distorts facts to fit their binary narrative.
  • Quote:
    • "They believe that you are defining yourself in opposition to them. That's why their only side in an argument might be no, this is what you really said and this is what you really mean." (18:29)

8. Living as a 'Character' in Their Narrative

• Victims feel as though they’re playing a role — rarely (if ever) seen as a unique, feeling person.
• Narcissists interact with the 'character' they've created, not with the real you.
• This disconnect leads to extreme mental anguish for those involved.
  • Quote:
    • "This is not getting to know another person. This is the creation of a character in their mind that looks like you and has your name. That's it... It may very well not resemble you at all in any other way." (24:02)

9. The Futility — and Liberating Realization — of Trying to Be Seen

• Nothing you do (being kind, honest, angry, agreeable, etc.) affects their perception: the fantasy image remains.
  • Quote:
    • "Literally nothing they do matters. It changes nothing. In the end, the narcissist in their lives still sees them the same way, no matter what happens." (27:50)
• The host reframes this futility in a freeing way:
  • You can stop trying to earn respect or basic decency because it’s impossible.
  • The responsibility is not yours, no matter how much the narcissist blames you.

10. Responsibility for Emotions & Reactions

• We can be considerate of others’ feelings, but are not responsible for how they feel or react.
• Narcissists try to make others responsible for their own emotions and actions.
  • Quote:
    • "Someone saying that you're responsible for their emotions and or their emotional reactions is wrong... We have a responsibility to the emotions of other people, but we are not responsible for them." (33:38)
• Adults alone are responsible for their own choices and actions; abusers cannot externalize responsibility for their reactions.

11. Beliefs vs. Reality

• The narcissist may believe things about you, but that doesn’t make them true or change who you are.
• Recognizing this distinction is key to reclaiming your sense of self.

12. Love Bombing as an Early Warning

• The episode highlights how love bombing is a tipoff that you’re being cast in an unreal role in their story.
• Extreme idealization is as disconnected from reality as the inevitable demonization.

13. A Call to Reflection and Empowerment

• The host urges listeners to consider whether it’s healthy or fair to spend energy convincing someone to treat them decently, and to recognize the value of stopping that effort.
  • Quote:
    • "If you can't exit the situation just yet, at least stop trying to convince someone to see you who can't even see their own hand in front of their face. You will never get something from someone who cannot even give that thing to themselves." (41:00)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Narcissistic Perception:
  • "You are a living construct that they can identify themselves against. And that's it." (22:45)
• On the Absurdity and Pain of These Dynamics:
  • "It's like you're a puppy, but you're being interacted with and treated as if you're a crocodile. And this happens every day, no matter what you do." (25:16)
• On Reclaiming Your Power:
  • "What other people think of us does not define us. Because, look, this person believes that you are something completely outside of what you actually are, and it has not changed you into that thing. It never will." (36:57)

Key Segment Timestamps

• Introduction and framing the topic: 00:00–02:30
• How narcissists form images of others: 02:30–07:30
• Explanation of 'Whole Object Relations': 04:35
• Idealization, devaluation, and paranoia: 07:30–13:45
• Narcissistic identity and opposition: 16:45–21:30
• Projection and binary arguments: 18:30–20:50
• The damage to victims: 24:00–28:30
• Responsibility for emotions: 33:00–36:00
• Reclaiming your sense of self: 36:00–40:00
• Closing, advice, and empowerment: 41:00–44:40

Takeaways

• Narcissists cannot truly see or understand you; they interact with a constructed image in their heads.
• Their relationships are defined by rigid "good/bad" thinking, unchanging fantasy, and projection.
• Trying to be understood or validated by a narcissist is futile — and realizing this can set you free from endless, fruitless effort.
• You are not responsible for the narcissist’s emotions or the roles they assign you.
• Your worth is not determined by someone else’s distorted view; reclaim your perspective and autonomy.

For more insights or to seek direct help, visit littleshaman.org or check the episode description for further resources.