Episode 285: When The Narcissist Is Caught - The Little Shaman: On Narcissists & Toxic Personalities

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: The Little Shaman—Episode 285: "When the Narcissist Is Caught"

Date: September 29, 2025
Host: The Little Shaman (Shaman Sister Sin)

Overview

In this episode, The Little Shaman (Shaman Sister Sin) delves into the dynamic of what happens when narcissists are caught in wrongdoing. She explores the typical reactions that follow exposure—from denial to blame-shifting—and unpacks the inner workings behind these behaviors, highlighting why narcissists act the way they do and why their tactics often seem both absurd and confusing to outsiders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Narcissists Get Caught (00:50–03:00)

Narcissists are often exposed because their lies, schemes, and manipulations are, contrary to popular belief, poorly executed and riddled with blind spots.
Overconfidence and lack of foresight contribute to frequent mistakes.
Society’s disbelief that an adult would engage in such blatant lying or absurd behaviors often aids narcissists:

“Many a person dealing with a narcissist has stood there like, this was your plan. You really thought this was going to work.” (02:10)

2. Leveraging Others’ Disbelief (03:00–05:00)

Narcissists often "get away with it" because people simply can't fathom an adult behaving so outrageously.
Their manipulative success frequently hinges on the sheer audacity and believability gap of their lies.

3. The Narcissist’s Response When Caught (05:00–08:00)

Rather than admit wrongdoing, narcissists typically embark on what Shaman calls a “dizzying, nauseating, non stop ride on the tilt-a-whirl” involving:
- Gaslighting
- Denial
- Blame-shifting
- Outbursts and tantrums
- Attacks on others’ character and logic
- Withdrawal or stonewalling
Notable description:

“They will walk 10 miles to tell a lie, but they will not take two steps to tell the truth.” (07:35)

4. Why Narcissists Can’t Admit Fault (08:00–12:00)

Their refusal to admit fault stems from a combination of:
- Extreme denial
- Weak self-image
- Pathological need to avoid shame
For narcissists, being found out isn’t just embarrassing—it’s experienced as a fundamental, existential threat:

“For a narcissist to admit that they're wrong is not experienced in the same way that it is for other people. Nobody likes to be wrong. But for narcissists, this is experienced as crushing. It shakes their entire foundation of reality and their sense of who they are.” (09:50)
This vulnerability to shame renders them unable—and unwilling—to accept responsibility.

5. Circular Reasoning and Self-Delusion (12:00–15:00)

Narcissists aim primarily to convince themselves, rather than others, that they’re not at fault.
Their reactions can seem delusional—even when caught with undisputable evidence, they might accuse others of framing them.
Notable quote:

“Who are you trying to convince? There's not even any audience here. And that is how we know the real audience for the narcissist's lies and denials and performances is the narcissist themselves.” (13:35)

6. Nature of Narcissistic Shame (15:00–17:30)

Narcissists’ shame is existential, not rooted in empathy or remorse for harm caused, but in a pathological fear of being exposed as worthless.
They equate being ‘bad’ with being utterly unworthy, a stance that extends both to themselves and others.

7. Gaslighting Unpacked (17:30–21:30)

Most gaslighting by narcissists is simply unyielding denial, rather than elaborate manipulation.
The tactic works mainly because people can’t imagine an adult would be so blatantly dishonest.
Noteworthy insight:

“It's a ridiculous, childish denial made by a ridiculous, childish person. That's all it is.” (20:30)

8. The Confusion Narcissists Create (21:30–24:00)

The goal is not to communicate or resolve, but to win by any means.
This often leaves people in a perpetual state of confusion, unable to discern the truth.
Memorable explanation:

“You're trying to resolve the situation and communicate and have a relationship… They're trying to win a conflict by any means necessary.” (23:15)
These incompatible goals mean genuine resolution or understanding is impossible.

9. Advice to Listeners (24:00–25:30)

Victims should rely on their own observation of the narcissist’s actions as “closure”—not on what the narcissist says.
“You know what happened. Stick with that. It's the truth, which is more than you're going to get from a narcissist.” (25:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On plans and manipulations:
“You would think somebody who invests so much in this kind of behavior… would be better at it. But many narcissists really are not very good liars or schemers or cheaters at all.” (01:10)
On their outlandish stories:
“People just can't believe an adult would make that up or would lie right to their face.” (03:54)
On escalating defenses:
“There will be attacks on you, your character, your sanity, your intelligence... There will be attacks on your mother's brother's cousin's girlfriend's dog that she had five years ago.” (06:38)
On avoiding the truth at all costs:
“They will walk 10 miles to tell a lie, but they will not take two steps to tell the truth.” (07:35)
On the real ‘audience’ for their lies:
“The point of saying it is that they have to have some way to spin things… so they don't have to experience the shame of being proven to have failed or done wrong or been bad.” (13:18)
Advice for listeners:
“Nothing this person says is going to change or help or fix anything anyway. In fact, it'll probably only make things worse, make them more confusing… Stick with that. It's the truth, which is more than you're going to get from a narcissist.” (25:10)

Key Takeaways

Narcissists often get caught because their schemes are fundamentally flawed and lack self-awareness.
Their defense mechanisms are driven by a pathological need to avoid overwhelming shame, not by logic or concern for others.
The chaos and confusion following exposure are intended to distract and discredit, not to clarify or correct.
Listeners are encouraged to trust their own perception and not to expect accountability or closure from a narcissist.

For more resources and support from The Little Shaman, visit littleshaman.org.

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[00:01]
A
Hey everybody, it's Shaman Sister Sin and you are listening to the Meditations and More podcast here on the little shaman.com just type that address in. It will take you directly to the YouTube channel. Our episode today is brought to you by shamanspiritcenter.com trans relational healing and littleshaman.org that's me, the little shaman. Today I wanted to talk to you about something most people dealing with narcissists deal with, and that is what happens when narcissists get caught. Narcissists are always getting caught. Prisons are full of them. Divorce courts are full of them. They're always trying to get away with something, so they're always getting caught doing things wrong. You would think somebody who invests so much in this kind of behavior and has so much practice would be better at it. But many narcissists really are not very good liars or schemers or cheaters at all. They tend to have huge blind spots and often fail to foresee things that would be obvious even to a kid. Their stories and plans are often poorly thought out and badly executed. And this, combined with their egotism and overconfidence in their own abilities, very commonly creates situations where they get caught at whatever they're trying to do. It could actually almost be funny sometimes if it wasn't so terrible. And sometimes it even is still funny though. It's terrible. Many a person dealing with a narcissist has stood there like, this was your plan. You really thought this was going to work. I was going to fall for that. When we look at true crime, for example, we see many narcissists. And so often the plans and schemes that these people come up with are just absurd. They're so absurd that it's shocking, like listening to a plan devised by a five year old. It's amazing that a grown adult could not only come up with it, but would actually believe it's going to work and put it into action. Thinking that this is very likely a big part of how narcissists are able to get away with many of the things that they do. They probably unknowingly in many situations due to their lack of empathy and self awareness leverage. People's inability to believe that an adult would do these things or think these things or say these things, it's just unbelievable. Many times it seems that these quote unquote master manipulators are really just benefiting from people's inability to believe that somebody would lie like that or that somebody would do those things. Especially in situations where the lie is very blatant or fantastical. People just can't believe an adult would make that up or would lie right to their face. Ergo, it must be the truth, even if it sounds crazy or stupid or unbelievable or seems counterintuitive or makes no sense. The sad truth is though, some adults will lie like that. They will make things up. They will lie right to your face about things that are very easy to prove. They will do things that are so stupid and obvious that you would think nobody would ever do that. They will. And the fact that they get away with it just feeds their egocentric belief that they're so smart and special and cunning. When the reality is that a lot of times people, people just can't believe an adult would do what this person has done. However, when they don't get away with it, this is when you see the level of dysfunction and limitation in these personalities. Far from admitting defeat or apologizing, when a narcissist gets caught, the result is very often a dizzying, nauseating, non stop ride on the tilt, A whirl the likes of which people who have not dealt with that cannot possibly understand. There will be lying, gaslighting, denial, blame shifting, shame, dumping. There could be rage, hysterics, tantrums, withdrawal, violence. There will be circular logic. There will be non stop attempts to change the subject or throw red herrings out there. There will be attacks on you, your character, your sanity, your intelligence, your perception, your logic. There will be attacks on your mother's brother's cousin's girlfriend's dog that she had five years ago. Your anything to take the focus of what this person has done. They will talk across you, around you, beside you, at you, under you, over the top of you, before you, above you, beneath you. They will run away, ghost you, stonewall you, refuse to answer you. They will shame you, blame you, game you, reframe you. They will walk 10 miles to tell a lie, but they will not take two steps to tell the truth. And if they do, it won't be the whole truth. The reason behind a narcissist's reaction when they get caught is both complicated and extremely simple. The mechanics behind how this manifests as behavior and mindsets can be complicated. They involve extreme denial, a flawed and faulty self image, an inability to create and sustain self worth, an unstable or even non existent identity, pathological rigidity and adherence to binary polarized thinking and plain old stubbornness. To put it simply, they won't admit it because they can't and they don't want To Anyway, as we discussed in Stop Trying to be the Good Guy. For a narcissist to admit that they're wrong is not experienced in the same way that it is for other people. Nobody likes to be wrong. But for narcissists, this is experienced as crushing. It shakes their entire foundation of reality and their sense of who they are. Yes, this sounds dramatic and stupid. It is dramatic and stupid, but it's also the truth. Remember something being hard to believe or sounding ridiculous does not make it untrue. And if dealing with narcissists teaches us anything, it's that this is one of the reasons they can seem so delusional. The arguments that they're forced to make in order to keep denying things at a certain point can become insane. For instance, a narcissist caught red handed by undisputable evidence might accuse you of framing them and it's like, okay, this is not Perry Mason, like we're not in Law and Order svu. We are standing in our living room and it's just you and me. Why would you even say something like that? Who are you trying to convince? There's not even any audience here. And that is how we know the real audience for the narcissist lies and denials and performances in is the narcissist themselves. If they can also convince you or anybody else with what they're saying, that's great, that's gravy, that's fantastic. That's five stars. But the point of saying it is that they have to have some way to spin things to be able to claim reasonable doubt, even if it sounds far fetched and delusional to everybody else. So that that way they don't have to experience the shame of being proven to have failed or done wrong or been bad to not be the bad guy. In other words, it's about having an escape hatch, however implausible it might be to avoid the crushing, life threatening inability to defend themselves against shame. This is not about logic or reason, which is why it sounds so delusional sometimes. This is all about feelings. That's why these arguments go on as long as they do and the denial goes as far as it does. This person is never going to just roll over and say, okay, kill me with shame. The fear that they experience here is enormous. It creates panic. And just to be clear, this is not like quote unquote, normal shame that you could defuse by letting them know, for example, that everybody makes mistakes or you're not going to judge them or you're going to forgive them or anything like that. First of all, they don't believe that. But also, it really has nothing to do with what they've actually done. You feel shame for hurting other people because you have empathy. A narcissist. Shame is related to being an unworthy person in and of themselves and having nothing to combat that with. That's why they need to make sure it can't be proven. The only way they have to see themselves is through how other people see them. If it's proven that they're a bad person or that they've done something wrong, then the way they see themselves through you becomes very, very negative. They have to prevent that from happening. A person who does bad things is the lowest form of life and doesn't deserve to live. In the pathologically narcissistic personality's estimation, that person is completely worthless. You can see the truth of that, not just in how vociferously they defend themselves, but also in how they react to other people making even small honest mistakes. To them, if somebody is not absolutely perfect and correct and good and right all the time, they're worthless garbage. That includes them. You are not going to convince them otherwise, and you're damn sure not going to convince them to admit that that's what they are. The shame of being proven worthless is just too much. That's why the defenses you so often see here are basic, even childish. Take gaslighting, for example. Gaslighting is an extremely damaging form of manipulation. But the majority of the, quote, gaslighting done by narcissists is just denial. It's just somebody who is so limited and so ill equipped to even form a cogent argument to defend themselves properly that they just deny stuff and claim it's not true or that it didn't happen. Even when there's proof. This is not evolved or smart as a tactic. It's what small children do. In fact, when narcissists apply it in virtually any situation beyond dealing with personal relationships, such as in criminal court or places where they have to explain or present evidence, it generally falls apart. It cannot stand up to any level of scrutiny. The only way it works is if you just accept it without thinking about it or examining it at all. The only real reason it's even marginally effective in personal or informal situations is because this person's not a child. Again, people just can't believe an adult would do that. They just cannot believe an adult would lie like that or would be so ridiculously transparent and then continue to insist it's true, even when shown proof that it can't be true. So they give more credence to the denial than the denial actually deserves based on its merits alone. Like, oh, okay, this person says they didn't come home because they were kidnapped. Nobody would make that up. So there must be something to it. Yeah, no, there's not. It's just a lie made up by a person with extremely limited ability to think on their feet and no ability to take perspectives of other people or to perceive how this is going to sound. It's a ridiculous, childish denial made by a ridiculous, childish person. That's all it is. This is very difficult to deal with. We all have a sort of tacit agreement as people walking around on the planet that up is up and down is down and approximately where those things are in relation to us as humans. When you're dealing with someone who does not behave in accordance with those basic agreements and you're operating from a place of, like, trying to take them seriously, things are going to get extremely confusing. That is what happens when people are dealing with narcissists. They spend so much time just trying to figure out what, if anything, this person has said is actually true. The reality is it doesn't matter. The confusion is the key here. The fact that you can't figure this out is actually the more important part, not what the truth actually is. You're never going to get the whole truth. There's every possibility this person doesn't even know what it is anyway. And even if they do, they're never going to tell you. That's losing, that's giving away their advantage, that's vacating the power position. They're just not going to do that. You're trying to resolve the situation and communicate and have a relationship of something, some type, with this person. They're trying to win a conflict by any means necessary. You don't have the same goals here, and you never will. In fact, your goals directly conflict with their goals. That's really important to understand in order for you to get what you want. That means this person can't get what they want. That is the entire nature of the relationship summed up in one sentence. And it really, really makes clear, clear the reality of this situation. The truth is, the actions of this person are your closure. They speak for themselves. Nothing this person says is going to change or help or fix anything anyway. In fact, it'll probably only make things worse, make them more confusing. You know what happened. Stick with that. It's the truth, which is more than you're going to get from a narcissist foreign I hope this clears a few things up for you. As always, I look forward to your comments, questions and suggestions, so please keep those coming. I take appointments online, over the phone, via text, via messenger, via email, and through Skype and Zoom for clients worldwide. So if you are interested in speaking with me one on one, you can visit littleshaman.org to do that. I have several books in publication, so if you are interested in picking up a copy of any or all of those, you can visit littleshaman.org to do that or find them on Amazon.com I teach workshops, seminars and clinics, so if you're interested in seeing what I am running right now, you can visit littleshaman.org to do that. And if you're interested in joining our support group with access to exclusive, exclusive content, weekly support meetings and more, you can visit littleshaman.org to do that as well. You have been listening to the Meditations and more podcasts here on the little shaman.com brought to you by shamanspiritcenter.com trans relational healing and littleshaman.org that's me, little Shaman. May the Great Spirit bless you. Have a beautiful day.