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- [00:00]
Host
$60 million in product sales. Pretty impressive. Lots of different companies, and I've done similar across multiple companies. And I think it's really cool because it shows you're an expert. Right. Doing it in one is obviously still hard, but easier. But when you can go and replicate success many times, that's where I get really fascinated.
- [00:19]
Chris Mullins
The hardest thing is going from 0 sales to 100,000 in sales, let alone a million dollars in revenue. But it started early on. I think, you know, a lot of loss in my life, which set me up for a lot of comebacks.
- [00:31]
Narrator
Chris Mullins is a US Navy veteran turned serial entrepreneur known for building multiple global brands and driving massive results. He's the founder behind ventures like Cryo FX and the virtual scaling accelerator, crafting seamless digital logistics and scalable systems that deliver over $60 million in revenue and cover 500 plus real estate doors.
- [00:50]
Chris Mullins
As marketers, we know this, but business owners that are not marketers that may not know it, they're always like, what's the next trick? What's the next trade? And it's like if you focus on the communication and the behavior, like what makes a person tick.
- [01:03]
Host
So what are some things you've learned? You know, scaling past a million that fit in that bucket?
- [01:08]
Chris Mullins
I would say it spans the globe like a super high cold Internet.
- [01:16]
Host
Elvis Preston, 5. Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone. It's not over until I win the.
- [01:25]
Chris Mullins
Living youg Legacy podcast. For those who live to leave a legacy that's extraordinary.
- [01:32]
Host
The impossible has.
- [01:34]
Chris Mullins
Oh, that is sensational.
- [01:37]
Host
Jordan, open Chicago with the lead. You said Paul is the fastest man on the planet. You can live your dream. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Legacy Makers. Joining me today is Chris, who sold over 60 million worth of products online. Over 6, 7 major companies work with some of the biggest brands in the space. Been part of projects up to what, $2 billion, right? Some pretty epic projects. And we're going to dissect his success, his lessons for you, and how he's building a legacy right now. Chris, welcome to the show. Thanks, man. Let's do this. So $60 million in product sales, pretty impressive. Lots of different companies, and I've done similar across multiple companies. And I think it's really cool because it shows you're an expert, right? It's, you know, doing it in one is obviously still hard but easier. But when you can go and replicate success many times, that's where I get really fascinated. So. So tell us the story of, you know, your life and business.
- [02:40]
Chris Mullins
I think you hit the nail on the head because it's doing it multiple times. And that's. Statistically, correct me if I'm wrong, the hardest thing is going from zero sales to 100,000 in sales, let alone $1 million in revenue. But it started early on, I think, you know, a lot of loss in my life. Obviously, you should see the. The legacy TV show. It'll say all about it, but a lot of loss early on, which set me up for a lot of comebacks. And instead of, you know, sitting and festering in that loss, playing the whole wo me game, I said, you know what? I'm going to channel this. You know, I had an analogy when I was younger. I used to be in the car, still am. And I said, the car would never cheat me. It'll never treat me like, you know, it'll never do bad things to me unless you get in a car accident. But. But that's your fault. Right. And so as business, it was the same thing. Business is never going to fail me unless I fail the business.
- [03:30]
Host
Yeah.
- [03:30]
Chris Mullins
And so as long as I took care of the business, as long as I found my channel, then it would take care of me. And it has.
- [03:35]
Host
Well, there's a. Yeah, a few great things already. One of my friends and business partners, a motivational icon, a guy called Les Brown, who you may know, he is famous. One of his famous sayings is a set, a setback is a setup for a comeback.
- [03:49]
Chris Mullins
Yes.
- [03:49]
Host
Right. And he basically. Basically said the same. And then what's ironic is yesterday I was filming behind the scenes, content and social. I said, the funny thing about every legacy maker that sits in this chair is the common trend is they've suffered, and then they had a decision at one point in their life to be a victim and dwell in that suffering and those problems and those areas of life that hit us hard in the face or to step up and change their life. Right. And you just said that, you know, exactly the same. You got hit with those problems and you had a decision to make. So let's talk about that. What was your story to get here, man?
- [04:25]
Chris Mullins
Long story. A lot of loss. It's funny because you could spin the stories like poor me, the whole nine yards, but exactly like what we're talking about, he goes away from that, and it's using that as a setback Slingshot, which is a book that I'm writing to explain this. But early on, lost my father at 13 to cancer. Very tragic thing. He turned around, and right before he died, he says, hey, losing people is going to be a part of your life. You'll lose friends in life. Little did I know that that was going to turn into like 11 plus friends. And I'm talking tragic deaths from, you know, car split in half with, with them, you know, found in a bathtub two days later, hung in a garage. I mean a lot, a lot of negative and so every step of the way it was, how do I take this and actually utilize this to my benefit, as horrible as that sounds, it sounds self fulfilling but, but it really gets you in the frame of mind of getting out of the rut and saying, look, loss happens everywhere. And I think I found a good correlation. And parallel to business loss hurts up front, but it gets easier over time if you compartmentalize and stuff. And business is the same way as well. And I think that there may have been some correlation in the businesses where every time you start a new business, as hurtful was the loss was to me and going forward and I just worked and it was a cyclical pattern because I, I was told, oh, you work, you work. You weren't around for so and so now he's dead. Now you, you know, you're not there anymore. It's like, oh great, that makes me feel really good. Let me go work some more. Yeah, but the pain of that and I think, you know, where there's pain, there's this like weird addiction. And it's the same with business. It's like, well, I failed the situation there because I wasn't there with them. I'm not able to hang out with them anymore. I didn't spend enough time with them. I'm not going to do that with business, you know, and marketing as you know best in marketing you can really start a business out of anything.
- [06:23]
Host
Yeah, well, I think what's, you know, not, not about personal death because it's different. But I saw a quote the other day, at least for business failures and problems that you, you know, something happens to you and successful people move on after 10 seconds, whereas unsuccessful people dwell for many days, weeks or months, right. And start drinking.
- [06:41]
Chris Mullins
They get all, you know, whatever.
- [06:43]
Host
Yeah. And like, and like I said, obviously personal, you know, personal loss is very different. But in business I see that a lot that like successful people choose to move on and it seems you've got really good at, you know, these business problems come up, right. And, and you've got used to the 10 second thing, right? Where it hits you and maybe the old version of you and most people, you dwell on it for days, be angry you know, like throw your, throw you off. I know that's how I was in my early 20s, you know, whereas now I've got very good at processing it out. And it's kind of like the body has to be good at detoxing toxins or you die. And I think as an entrepreneur, you have to be good at detoxing that stuff quick or you die.
- [07:20]
Chris Mullins
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And I think that, you know, getting, getting it out of your system, accepting the fact that, hey, I need a moment. Yeah. There's so much social pressure out there of like, you have to do this, you have to act this way. I mean, even when it came down to like, oh, I'm sorry for your loss, I will never say that to somebody. I hated that when people said that to me. Like, what are you sorry for? It's a pre programmed script and response. You know, really all that does is just bring up negative feelings for me. So how are you doing? Is a lot better response to that. And so in seeing that, yeah, I mean I can.
- [07:54]
Host
And let's talk now about, you know, the business side grow into 60, you know, plus million in product sales. What sort of businesses? What were you selling and what were some lessons to do that, lessons learned.
- [08:05]
Chris Mullins
So early on, I think the first business that I started that made over a million dollars was the DJ business. Is a dj. And that went from. Everybody wanted to be a DJ at some point. Right.
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Host
Well, but that's even epic in itself because most DJs, you know, it's fun weekend gig and they make a few thousand. Right. But, but a million dollars is impressive.
- [08:24]
Chris Mullins
It is. And a lot of that too is it's the mindset shift of like, wow, like I can turn this into something, you know, like you said it, it's what appealed to those DJs, you know, did they want to drink, have a ton of girls? I mean, yes, of course, had all that and a lot more. As you know, I mentioned earlier, I've had my run in with drugs, almost every drug in the book, probably at the same day dealing with loss, not proud of it. But as I share my story, I've accepted that and I've come to terms with it because I wouldn't be in this chair right now talking about it if every single thing didn't happen. And so owning it and saying, hey, it's a, it's a bad part of my life, I did bad things, but that doesn't define me of who I am. And taking that DJ business to the, on the degree I didn't want the girls and the drugs and the partying and the drinks anymore. I said, how do I really capitalize this and turn it into an enterprise where I can make money on it? Shifted focus over to weddings. Did phenomenal weddings. Did a bunch of raves. Obviously the weddings paid a lot more.
- [09:21]
Host
Well, let's, let's talk about that because I always like to ask your probably first DJ gig was free.
- [09:26]
Chris Mullins
Yes.
- [09:27]
Host
Right.
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Chris Mullins
And then, oh, there's some Craigslist gigs.
- [09:29]
Host
That I showed up to and then you probably got like $100 for a couple. Right. Or a couple of hundred dollars. Right. But what was the highest one you ever got?
- [09:38]
Chris Mullins
Highest one was 10K to DJ a rave that had, I want to say about 10,000 people.
- [09:44]
Host
But isn't it craz go from free just to like get started? And then $100, $200 and then 10 grand.
- [09:51]
Chris Mullins
It was in the biggest mindset, actually the not even a mindset shift. The biggest shift that I saw though was when I would do these events for 6, $700 and think, oh, I'm cheaper than the other DJ, but my perceived value was lower. Y and so when I said, you know what, screw it, I'm raising my prices. I want to value myself more. I want to do less events for more money. Raised my prices to 1400. Didn't change anything else. And ironically enough, more events picked up.
- [10:20]
Host
Well, what's funny too, there was this social experiment where this shoe, this shoe shop made a designer store in like London or somewhere, and it was like $50 shoes, but they designed the store to look like a Louis Vuitton and they sold the shoes for $1,000. And they were busy all day selling these.
- [10:35]
Chris Mullins
Wow.
- [10:36]
Host
It's like the belief, right? It's the belief you can charge more. And then it's just your perception, right? Like if you say your premium high exp. Expensive, you just sell more.
- [10:45]
Chris Mullins
You sell more.
- [10:45]
Host
And it's funny how it takes most of us a long time to learn that. Then we look back and go, what was I. Do you know, what was I doing here?
- [10:52]
Chris Mullins
I heard a good quote one time and it said, if your schedule is so full right now, raise your prices till it evens out.
- [10:57]
Host
Yeah, yeah, I've done that many times. Yeah, yeah, so. So the same for me, right? So I started personal training at 18 at $20 an hour. And now I charge, you know, $5,000 for a consultation. So you see that, that bridge $20 to 5 grand.
- [11:13]
Chris Mullins
So if we talk about personal training, I'm Going to have to pay you five grand right now.
- [11:16]
Host
Yeah, $20 maybe. So let's talk now about the other businesses. So that's one. What are just, you know, just quickly, what are some of the other companies you've grown?
- [11:25]
Chris Mullins
Yeah, some of the other businesses, obviously a special effects company which, you know, I got caught doing illegal stuff, which taught me business. I became an embargo. DJ Judge said no more. So I said, okay, watch, I'll go over to weddings. Really focus on the consulting side. Yeah, Grew that business. Like I said, million dollars. And then I started other businesses as well. I started a special effects company where DJs used the cryoguns. Really looked into that. I had a competitor come in, copy everything I did. So then I created a second brand where we just price war all the way to the bottom. And then he had to rebrand this whole thing. This was a throwaway brand for me.
- [12:01]
Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:02]
Chris Mullins
Today it does over a couple hundred thousand dollars. We put no effort into it. All organic marketing. And he had the rebrand his entire company, like change everything. And it. And so the premium brand, the cryo effects brand stayed at the top.
- [12:15]
Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:16]
Chris Mullins
And I. And nothing happened with that. We didn't have to move our prices, we didn't have to change anything. It stayed at the top. So it was a good marketing experiment. Obviously other brands along the way, a sanitizer, a sanitize effects company which, where we sold sanitizer dispensers and dispenser stands during COVID did a million dollars through a sales funnel. And that. And that one was a three hour case study. It was like, let's just see what happens. And if I could make a comment on here. A lot of people don't just see what happens. Yeah, it's, it's. You get stuck in this analysis paralysis of like let me strategize everything. By all means, do that. But the sanitized business, you don't know what's like two steps ahead of you.
- [12:53]
Host
Until you take two steps. Well, during COVID I launched a new like course and challenge and I built it in an afternoon with my team. And I woke up, I ran ads that night, just you know, set up ads myself to get it done because it was evening, woke up the next day and it done five grand. And then I actually took that and that funnel made like, you know, with upsells and cross sells and ascensions like way over a million. Wow. It's during COVID too. And so everyone kept asking me to do the hand Sanitizer stuff because I was such a good marker, but I was so focused on that. I'm like, maybe I could have made more doing that.
- [13:25]
Chris Mullins
Yeah. But.
- [13:25]
Host
But it's the same thing. You know, I saw that opportunity just like you did. Built the funnel that day, launched it, made five grand, and then scaled it. Right. Whereas most people, you're right, Would have said, oh, yeah, let me map it out, planet. And then by that time, the golden window is gone.
- [13:40]
Chris Mullins
Yes. I think you would have had fun if you did do anything, because a lot of the ads were getting rejected.
- [13:45]
Host
Yeah.
- [13:46]
Chris Mullins
And it was, you can't do this. You're exploiting a sensitive topic. And so it's finding the ways around it. And what was interesting around that time, though, was a lot of companies had the products and, you know, there was a lot of companies that were out there, and it was a test study. You know, it was like, hey, let's see what we can do with this. Were one foot in the door. Okay, well, let's try this, let's try that. And it was a bunch of. Just trying everything out.
- [14:06]
Host
Yeah. So. So let's talk about what's next. Because you, you know, you don't. You said over $60 million in sales across all your companies and brands, but now you're on this new venture, you want to build one of the biggest, you know, newsletters, communities, free for entrepreneurs to empower them.
- [14:22]
Chris Mullins
Yeah.
- [14:23]
Host
Confidence and tactics and tips. Let's talk about that.
- [14:26]
Chris Mullins
Yeah. So, you know, taking everything, I guess, looking in, you know, looking at the setbacks, links on. Everything's in cycles. My entire life, your life, everybody's life is in cycles. And so the cycle for me is, okay, the past doesn't define me. The past is a chapter that we, we. We need to close. The businesses will still roll, but this next chapter is how to use the last 20 years of experience and the systems I use, the scale, the trials and tribulations, the heartaches, the problems, you know, expecting the worst, and then getting something that's a little bit better. How do I format all of that and put it into something that I can give back? Free, paid, you know, obviously the value ladder going up. And so doing that comes to Founders Field Day, which is the free newsletter. We give people advice and tips and tricks and how to be better at your confidence and communication, to operate better, how to be better at operations and scaling and marketing. And because businesses normally have two problems, unless the business owner is the problem, which happens sometimes, but they either have a marketing or operations problem. So putting this into a tiered step where it's like, hey, here's the free content, here's what gets you to this point. Then you get a hundred thousand up to like 2 million, 3 million or so where there's some break points around there. And then we get to there and say, okay, here's what you need to really dial in in your business. But we're also looking at other businesses as well, saying, how much of this is a problem and do you want to give up on the problem? I'll buy the problem for you because I know we can fix it.
- [15:59]
Host
Yeah, it's funny, most entrepreneurs, you know, for the last seven, eight years, I've been a famous ads and marketer, but then they come for me for that. But it's like they stay, I always say they come for that, but they stay for like the operations, the hiring, the team, the systems. And I think that's a lot of marketers, as we know in the clickfunnels community and stuff. They get to a million, maybe two or three. And I talk about this with my friends that are successful. Very few get to 10. It's like, statistics are crazy. Like how many get a 2 comma club award, for example? Then the 10 mil, it's very few because that next gap is operations, systems, teams, processes, more offers. So, so what are some things you've learned, you know, scaling past a million that fit in that bucket?
- [16:41]
Chris Mullins
I would say focusing a lot on the communication, because at the very foundational level, if you have this pyramid, the foundation is communication and it's behavior. And I've been a very big proponent on this lately. Anything from behavior, profiling, psychology, which it goes into every communication. Us here, employees, freelancers, staff, how you write your ads, your content, I mean, as marketers we know this, but business owners that are not marketers, that may not know it, they're always like, what's the next trick? What's the next trade? And it's like if you focus on the communication and the behavior, like what makes a person tick, what, why they do. Because we're all reactionary, we're all reactions. And if you find out what caused those reactions, everybody had problems as kids, everybody had, you know, trauma and rewards and all this, it will help you understand better. And so I think that building the confidence, we lack confidence because we just don't understand. And so confidence and communication is what I'm a huge proponent of. And that's really what takes it to the next step on the personal side, on the business side, Definitely scaling and automation and really understanding the bottom line. I mean, there's so many people and you can definitely vouch for this, that, oh, I got revenues of. I got revenues. That's great. If you got revenues of that, but your margins are horrible, then you're. You're literally working just to move shit around the room.
- [18:01]
Host
Yeah, yeah. And you know, with that, I mean, businesses go in phases, right? Sometimes you focus on hyper growth, then profitability, then systems ops, then you go to, you know, generally, it's kind of. When you look at how companies grow, they grow up in revenue, stabilize. Grow up in revenue, stabilize.
- [18:17]
Chris Mullins
It's like a slinky.
- [18:18]
Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And you have to understand those phases. I explain it to my team because we've gone through a gross revenue phase, driving revenue, then a stability profit phase, and now we're about ready for another gross revenue. I say it takes more builders to build the hotel. And when the hotel's built and now you're just running and operating it, and then you have to hire more builders again to build the next hotel. That's kind of how I. I like that analogy.
- [18:41]
Chris Mullins
Yeah, it rings a bell. And that's so true.
- [18:43]
Host
Yes. So. So let's talk. I know there's a lot more about your personal story and everything you've been doing in the episode, but I just want to ask you for the last few minutes about legacy. Right. So what. What does legacy mean to you?
- [18:55]
Chris Mullins
Legacy to me means evoking a story created by another person that will, when told, evokes emotion and even more people. And it's cyclical. It continues out like a ripple effect, in my opinion. And obviously the other angle of this is doing dope shit that people will talk about in the future. We all want a legacy to live by. And I think it's the same thing when you ask somebody about success, you know, o big mansion, a big car, you know, whatever the case is. And it's all these materialistic things. It comes down to, like, how you feel when you're alone. Like I say, success is. Is defined by how you feel when you're alone.
- [19:30]
Host
I think that's great.
- [19:31]
Chris Mullins
Yeah.
- [19:31]
Host
And I mean, all the. It's funny. 90% of the entrepreneurs I'm friends with and know, it's like the money is like the side stuff, right. It's like you buy a nice car. The main reason the car is still to go A to B. Now, if it has leather seats and seat warmers and looks good to me, that's like a side thing. Right. But yeah, the great entrepreneurs, their mission's so big and they're so good at what they do and so passionate that the money and stuff just comes as part of it. Right. It's like when you drive a fast car and you see the, the gust come behind it. That's how I see the revenue.
- [20:04]
Chris Mullins
Would you say that there's a definite correlation as you're talking? And I've seen this, the sophisticated from non sophisticated entrepreneurs, it's like this turning point because starting out, you're like, oh my God, product money and I got to make more money. And. But then you get to the sophistication point of like, hey, there's more to this. I need to just do good and provide a good product and service. And then the money comes second, I.
- [20:26]
Host
Think, especially for the ones doing tens of millions. Like, I think when you start and there's nothing wrong, like when you start, you got to pay your mortgage and pay your get food on the table. So it's totally okay to be focused on money and profit and you've got to pay your bills and as long as it's not, you know, at the expense of the customer and selling a bad product, it's great. And you should always be focused on money and revenue and finances because eventually you have shareholders to answer to and 100 employees to pay and bills. Right. So I think it's time to be focused on that. But yeah, all the good entrepreneurs I know, you know, pretty much all my friends, people doing tens of millions, it's just, yeah, the mission's so big and it's like the game of business is so enjoyable and it's just what they do, it's in their DNA. That is how it is for me. Right. And I always say I've paid myself the same for the last 7 years, even though my company is 10x, so it can't possibly be about the money. It's about the game of business and helping people and building something epic.
- [21:25]
Chris Mullins
Which is ironic when you talk about that because I could share similarities and I have always, I've cringed a little bit when I hear about people. Like, I want to build this company and I want to take it public. I'm like, yeah, because taking a company public, it's almost written. Like now you're not about the product and service, it's about the shareholders.
- [21:40]
Host
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Chris Mullins
Ultimately, and respectful to them, your product and service comes second. And so it's, it's, I think, and I'm, I can only speak. I haven't taken companies public But I can only see what I've seen in the.
- [21:51]
Host
Yeah, I mean, public, it's like, I think it's like a big goal. But, you know, I know a lot of entrepreneurs that have done it and regret it and yeah, I still think it's an okay goal if that's your goal. But, but yeah, like you said, the, the why should still be there. And yeah, there's, it's a very different game when you go public because you, you know, I think, can there still be good products that are public? Yeah, because there are some companies that are public that have good products. But it definitely becomes a much more mathematical spreadsheet game than just a product orientated.
- [22:19]
Chris Mullins
The boundaries are definitely a little bit more set.
- [22:21]
Host
So, so, so what about. Let's, you know, just coming back to Legacy to wrap up. You talked about what it means to you and that was a great follow on combo. But what does it, you know, so my last question, really, I love to ask. You've been very successful. Someone's listening. They want to build their own legacy. They want to grow their businesses, have success. Like you. What is, what would you say to them? Give them some tips or words of wisdom.
- [22:44]
Chris Mullins
Focus on the technical aspect of your product and knowing it inside and out for you, but do not share that necessarily with the customer. At the end of the day, the customer doesn't care about that.
- [22:55]
Host
Yeah, yeah. I would say everyone entrepreneur, they get too technical and obsessive, is just say, I always say, stay in the third grade level. Whether you love or hate Trump, he knew what he was doing. Make America great again. Simple, very simple message.
- [23:07]
Chris Mullins
Taglines, jingles and stories. And we're at the primal as mammals. Back in the day, when none of this society was around, it was all about stories. So the better story that you craft, obviously, make it authentic and make it a real story, but the better story about your brand, about your product, about everything else. And then in just as important, be a media company.
- [23:27]
Host
Yeah.
- [23:28]
Chris Mullins
And I'm real big on this proponent. Be a media company first. I was just consulting a family office recently. I came in and said, okay, you got all these loans and all this stuff, like, who cares about all that? You're a media company first. You do the loan second. And it's. You have to do this, I think, in this day and age, because we are all fighting for the story, for the attention, for where we're going. If you're not focused as a media company that happens to have a product and be completely agile. Sprint Operate. Sprint Operate. Sprint Maintenance Then you're going to fall in the wayside and somebody else is going to come up, just like I did in three of the industries that I came into. I was the guy that came in that was like a side win and a whirlwind, and they're like, holy shit, where did this guy come from? It's. I'm just the guy that had a better idea that marketed a product different. But I created the story, and I created the brand around it that had the story attached to it, and ultimately it was a lot more successful. And these people were pissed off they didn't think of it first, but they were stuck in the old ways of. In some of these brands, they didn't put out the technical jargon on there. Others overdid the technical jargon. You put out technical jargon, I put out. People are going to go, okay, this one has more. Yeah, maybe I'll go with this one. The story, we're connecting on an emotional level. We all are driven by emotion.
- [24:42]
Host
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so good. And I saw that in my first business, I used to be scientific and technical. Then I renamed it and I said, get a bikini body in 90 days. And I sold like 100,000 copies.
- [24:54]
Chris Mullins
And that was the thing, though, is you're selling the outcome.
- [24:56]
Host
Yeah.
- [24:57]
Chris Mullins
Yeah. So probably if there was a number of three in there, it's sell the outcome. People want the outcomes. What is it going to do? I'm sorry, but what is it going to do for me? I could give a shit less about anything.
- [25:05]
Host
Make America great again. The outcome. Right. It's like, you know, so it's the.
- [25:10]
Chris Mullins
Best tagline and story of all.
- [25:13]
Host
Yeah. So last question, then, people, you know, it's obviously surface level. They. They can watch your episode, learn more about your story. How do they find you online? Where's that? Your socials or website?
- [25:23]
Chris Mullins
Yeah. So website would be kriskraze.com K-R-I-S K R A Z E dot com. Socials are going to be Instagram, Chris Craze, Facebook, TheChrisCrase, and then on Instagram. I've not changed it yet. I'm still debating. It's my DJ name, which is DJ K R A Y Z K for Krazy K. If you just typed in Chris Craze Mullins, I'll show up. You'll see me online.
- [25:49]
Host
Love it, Chris. Pleasure, guys. That's a wrap there. Keep building a legacy. Learn from Chris, check out his episode, and I'll see you soon. Audios.