Why a Private Capital Attorney Rejected Big Law’s Safe Route - Living Your Legacy

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[00:00]
A
What seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route. And I say that as someone who did the whole academic thing, you know, big law and all of that. It's a different beast. It's not. It really is a system. And I would also say Pedra Mousavi
[00:21]
B
is a private capital attorney, entrepreneur and the founder of Mousavi Law. He helps investment managers, fund sponsors and business leaders navigate complex transactions with strategic legal counsel that drives long term growth
[00:34]
A
and lasting success in about like five to seven years. All the AmLaw, like sort of like 200 firms, they gotta be essentially owned by private equity. And then the AmLaw100 will turn into like AmLaw50 because I was just like, it spans the globe like a super high cold Internet. Elvis Preston. Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone.
[01:06]
B
It's not over until I win the Living your Legacy podcast.
[01:12]
A
For those who live to leave a legacy that's extraordinary. The impossible has happened. Oh, that is sensational. Jordan, open Chicago with the league. You said Paul is the fastest man on the planet. You can live your dream.
[01:31]
B
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Living youg Legacy podcast. I'm your host, Jason Tyler, and I am joined today by Pedram Mousavi of Mousavi Law. Pedram, welcome to the show. How you feeling?
[01:43]
A
Good, good. It's.
[01:46]
B
It feels like a cigar bar in here.
[01:47]
A
Yes.
[01:48]
B
Yeah. It's a very different environment from the studio. We just finished filming your episode for America's Top Lawyers. And first of all, how are you feeling now on the other side of it? Is it like a release? Like, all right, the weight's off my shoulders. I got it out a little bit.
[02:06]
A
I mean, it was fun. I was. I'm mostly proud of myself for not falling out of the director's chair. So I think we can talk. You know, all of my clients all
[02:18]
B
around, all of my clients know that I tell everybody, like, hey, the director's chair is not the most comfortable to sit in for 90 minutes. I think we did like two and a half hours in there. You're a soldier for, like, finishing the full session and, and sitting in the director's chair the whole time because I don't know how. I don't know how most people do it.
[02:35]
A
Well, I. I mean, I think I hadn't had lunch or breakfast, and so I, like, set some time was, you know, it was.
[02:43]
B
It was loopy.
[02:44]
A
Exactly.
[02:46]
B
One of the first questions that I always ask on this show is, you know, what would you say is like the number one lesson you want people to be able to learn from your story.
[02:55]
A
I say the number one lesson is that sometimes what seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route. And I say that as, you know, someone who obviously did the whole, like. Like, academic thing and, you know, big law and all of that. And I really cherish, like, relationships I made there, and also, look, the skills that developed and, you know, client relationships. But it's. It's a different. It's a different beast. It's not. It really is a system. Mm. And I would also say for people to just be nimble, I mean.
[03:50]
B
Yeah, you gotta be adaptable.
[03:52]
A
Yeah.
[03:52]
B
I think that's, like, one of the. One of the things that I hear a lot on this show from different entrepreneurs, different business owners in all avenues is, like, adaptability and flexibility are, like, hyper. Hyper important. If you're in business, like, you got to be able to kind of pivot at the drop of a hat.
[04:10]
A
Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean, one of the, you know, partners at my former firm that I worked with very closely, he basically was at the top of his field, like, what I say, top of his fields, like, you know, really up there, like. Like, you know, number one in the world. It is practice. And for, you know, various reasons, he had to, like, pivot a little bit because, like, just, like, the Ferb's business strategy, like, you know, and he did it with. I mean, without complaining, masterfully.
[04:55]
B
Still race.
[04:57]
A
Yes. And. Yeah, and he didn't lower his standards either. You know, like, he still believed in his, you know, ability to provide excellent advice to clients, and he just essentially turned a few things around and still had, you know, the prestige without. Without, like, the ego, you know, and. And I, you know, and. And you think somewhat at that level, right, where it's like, they've just, like, the blood and, you know, sweat and tears and. Well, now talk about the associates that work with them. No,
[05:51]
B
it wasn't his blood, sweat and tears. It's actually.
[05:55]
A
But, you know, it's like, like, you know, you know, you work that hard to get to, you know, the pinnacle of your career. You're like, yes, like. Like, you know, it's paid off, and then you have to pivot, and it's seeing it as a. A challenge and a new, you know, a new adventure and. And another thing to work hard at and, you know, succeed at.
[06:26]
B
I like that you said that he didn't, like, lower his standards in that pivot, because one thing that I notice a lot is actually to the contrary of that most people that I've seen have to pivot in business actually raise their standards when they make that lateral. That first lateral movement. Like, let's say, for example, somebody is running a restaurant, right? And their restaurants, like, one of the top restaurants in the world. And then they have to, for whatever reason, like, Covid hits, and they have to shut it down and they have to pivot into a completely new area of business. They actually take everything they learned from that previous venture and pivot it into the systems that they build in the new business. And the new business actually operates at such a high level right out of the gate that they end up building a new standard on top of that. Like, that's something that I've noticed in business owners. Would you say, like, kind of the
[07:22]
A
same for business owners? Definitely. I mean, especially if you're. When you have such a dramatic event, you know, in the world where all the old rules kind of go the window and it sounds like it. It really gives you a chance to kind of reflect and think, okay, what was it working? But, you know, but we're just, like, stuck with certain, like, legacy,
[07:53]
B
you know, systems.
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A
Systems, and, you know, like, let the
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B
old spots, let the old stuff wash away, and, like, we can build on what did work.
[08:01]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
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B
Yeah. One of the, you know, one of the interesting points in your story, I think, was just kind of getting to hear your experience of being a junior associate and kind of working in that sort of devil wears Prada esque world. Talk to me a little bit about, like, for the. For the audience member out there who's listening, and they're like, oh, I'm about to go into law school. I can't wait to be a junior associate. What do they have in store for them?
[08:29]
A
Well, I mean, I would first quote Legally Blonde or her. Her mother's like, but, honey, you're Ms. Runner up in the Hawaiian Tropics concert. Why Kaidest, why would you throw all that away? Entered as, like, law school. That's. But that's for people who are boring and serious and unattractive. And you're none of those, pumpkin.
[09:05]
B
For the aspiring law student out there, I want all of you guys to go out and watch Legally Blonde and Legally Blonde, too. Well, another one of the things that I really liked about getting to listen to your story was, you know, getting. Not only did we just reference, like, having your former associate or your former partner that you worked with watching them pivot, but you also made your own pivot, right? And you pivoted out of working in big Law and went into creating your own firm. What was that? You know, what was that experience like for you? Of, like, having you've built all these relationships with clients in your tenure with this other firm and now getting to kind of put your own spin on it? What is that. What does that feel like for, you know, for a lawyer going into creating their own firm?
[09:52]
A
Well, it's very exciting now. Like, at first, it's especially, you know, when you spent so many years at a place working with a lot of people that you respect and you develop, like, close relationships with. I mean, not everybody, but people come and go, people move and et cetera. But with a lot of people, you do. And it's. It's bittersweet, you know. You know, it's the right thing, but. But at the same time, it's like, you know, it. It. It's. It's kind of like being at high school. It's like leaving high school in a way.
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B
Oh, okay.
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A
Or, like. Like, you know, it's like.
[10:39]
B
That's actually a great analogy for it, I think.
[10:41]
A
Yeah.
[10:41]
B
Yeah. It's. It's kind of. Did you grieve at all, like, the. I don't know, for me, like, anytime I've gone through, like, a major shift in life, I kind of spend a little bit of time just kind of grieving what was before. I'm able to, like, transition into what's gonna. What's coming next. Like, did you find that. Did that happen for you at all?
[11:02]
A
I did. I did, but, I mean, it was mixed because I feel like I started the grieving process, like, sooner before you actually let.
[11:15]
B
Yes, I understand.
[11:17]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, it's just. It's just the. The legal industry, like, has shifted so drastically in the last couple of years, and in the back of my mind, you know, like, a couple of years ago, started feeling, you know, just kind of knowing, but, like, not wanted to. You know, it's like.
[11:42]
B
It's that, like, it's gut feeling that you get.
[11:45]
A
It's a gut.
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B
You don't want to trust it at first, but you're like, I know this is correct, but I don't want it to be correct.
[11:51]
A
Yeah. Especially when there's, like, a lot of people saying that, like. No. Like, it's not. It's.
[11:56]
B
Yeah. Because everybody wants to protect their own interests.
[11:59]
A
Yeah.
[11:59]
B
Like, no, no, no, no. Don't. Don't believe.
[12:01]
A
Yeah. And. And. And. And you're like, no. Like, it's. I feel like it's like anything that both my gut feeling and Just like my brain, I'm like, that doesn't make sense. But, you know, with, with, with some folks, it's, it's like, you know, the different incentives and then there's other ones that are, you know, like, oh, like we don't, you know, we don't want you to leave. Blah, blah. But then a lot of other people also left.
[12:33]
B
It was like a, A mass exodus.
[12:36]
A
Yeah, it's a, It's a huge change, really. Mass exodus, but also mass entrance, but not, but not in like, our particular, like, cohort or group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as I said, like, it's, it's. It's my, my sort of prediction. I mean, don't, you know, bet any money on it, but is that I'm
[13:07]
B
holding up Kelsey right now, actually.
[13:10]
A
Well, I mean, Kelsey might and not be proud by then, but I'm not saying any insider knowledge, but yeah,
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B
I'm not taking it.
[13:23]
A
I can say all of these things now, and I don't have insider knowledge with anything. It's great. I could buy stocks. Like, I had a finance degree. I wasn't able to buy stocks for like 10 years. Like in about, like five to seven years. Like all the AMLA, like, sort of like 200 firms, are they going to be essentially owned by private equity?
[13:48]
B
Really?
[13:49]
A
Yeah. And then the Amla, like 100 will turn into like, Amla 50, because I
[13:58]
B
was just like, consolidate.
[14:01]
A
Consolidate.
[14:02]
B
Yeah. I feel like that makes a lot of sense, actually, because, like, another big part of what we talked about in your episode was like, the advent of AI and like, how it's being utilized, how it's cleaning up systems, but also at the same time, like, we're. We're kind of in the, I guess the wild, wild west in a sort of way with, like, seeing where AI is going to go as far as, like, agentic AI and all these different things. But I want to get your. Your take on, like, what does the future of law look like now that AI is here? Because I know a lot of people, even myself, I'm dealing with, you know, I deal with clients that send contracts over and I'm like, you clearly put this through ChatGPT. Yeah, yeah. What's your, what's your take on that?
[14:46]
A
So I, I'm a firm believer in using the tools, but using them as tools.
[14:58]
B
Don't rely on them fully.
[14:59]
A
No. And also using the right tools, it just, it does not have. I mean, it's, It's a wonder how, you know, quickly things have advanced, really, and they get better.
[15:18]
B
And better. But do you look at the Will Smith eating spaghetti litmus test for how good AI image creation gets?
[15:26]
A
Now I look at Jude Law's billboard.
[15:29]
B
Oh yeah, that, that works. Yeah, that works. Because you remember back like maybe, what was this? Like four years ago they had that AI video of Will Smith eating spaghetti and it was horrendously bad. And now they have like a full on like movie that is with multiple shot angles and voiceover and the whole thing. And it's like pretty indistinguishable from the real thing other than the voice. The voice is not there yet. So guys, if you're out there doing AI filmmaking, which I do a lot of, don't use AI for voice, go hire a voiceover artist. But I wanted to ask like, you know, we're here at Inside Success and this is one of my main questions that I ask all my clients here is like, for the business owner, the lawyer, the, the doctor, the whatever industry you're in, what's your, what is Pedram's number one key tip for success?
[16:21]
A
Everyone will have a different answer to it, really. Right. It's. By forever. We actually had this really interesting psychological survey of all the associates. And it was like a personality, like personality test based on three different metrics. It's saying, you know, what motivates people. And it was like ego, money, or camaraderie. And we are, our associates actually scored the highest high on all three. And the, the surveyor said that we were like the only big law firm that had camaraderie. Actually even like score at all.
[17:17]
B
You didn't score at all?
[17:18]
A
Yeah.
[17:19]
B
Oh, God.
[17:20]
A
Yeah. I think now for most people, it's, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's money or prestige for a lot of
[17:36]
B
people,
[17:39]
A
especially, you know, the advent of, you know, calling. Yeah, but with a partner. But, but I, I, I do see for, especially with a lot of the senior, the senior lawyers, it's more of a, like a stewardship that I, I, I see them take a lot of
[18:07]
B
pride in like stewarding the, the junior associates.
[18:11]
A
It was stewarding like the practice, the practice itself.
[18:16]
B
Because I was gonna say like the, the senior lawyers stewarding the junior lawyers is not accurate to the, I think the story that we told about like the Devil Wears Prada environment of being a junior associate.
[18:31]
A
Yeah. No, no, no, no. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's about, it's about the practice. It's not about, you know, Emily or, or, or whatever her name was.
[18:44]
B
Yeah. So as we kind of wind down here, guys. First of all, if you're still tuned in at this point in the pod, I want to make sure that you guys check out Pedram's episode of America's Top Lawyers, which should be coming out shortly after this podcast airs. So make sure you guys check that out to get a full deep dive on his story and his rise into creating his own law firm. But where can people find you on social media? Where can they find your firm on the Internet where you. Where's. Where are you located?
[19:16]
A
So I say LinkedIn is where I spent more much most of my time now in terms of like, social media for. For work. Which is really funny because two years ago, I think my LinkedIn profile said I was a law clerk still.
[19:34]
B
I think mine still says I'm a student. I do not use that thing at all. But I should.
[19:38]
A
It's actually done wonders for me, to be honest. Yeah. So LinkedIn. But by the time this comes out, I have the pedrobusabi.com will be in like, the better, better shape.
[19:57]
B
Got you got. So it's under construction?
[19:59]
A
It is, yeah.
[20:00]
B
Well, by the time you guys see this, it will no longer be under construction. And I'm also going to make sure for our editors, just put. I'm pointing in directions, but just put that his website somewhere on the screen. But Pedram, it has been an immense joy having you on the show. I think with that, I think that's a wrap for the day. I think we got through everything, huh?
[20:26]
A
Now time to get a wrap.
[20:28]
B
Very true, because this man has not eaten all day. But, guys, this has been another episode of the Living youg Legacy podcast. Again, I'm your host, Jason Tyler, and I will catch you guys in the next one.

Summary6 min read

Living Your Legacy Podcast
Episode: Why a Private Capital Attorney Rejected Big Law’s Safe Route
Host: Jason Tyler
Guest: Pedram Mousavi, Founder of Mousavi Law
Date: July 21, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Living Your Legacy explores the bold career shift of Pedram Mousavi, a private capital attorney formerly at a top law firm, who left the seemingly “safe” path of Big Law to create his own legal firm. Through candid discussion, host Jason Tyler and Pedram dive into what it takes to pivot from a prestigious corporate law trajectory, how adaptability and self-awareness play a crucial role in legacy-building, and what the future holds for the industry amidst rapid technological and cultural changes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Questioning the "Safe Route" in Big Law

Pedram's Core Philosophy:
- “Sometimes what seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route.” (02:54)
- Pedram reflects on building a strong foundation in Big Law—cherishing the relationships and skills he developed—but concludes that the system is fundamentally rigid and not necessarily secure in the long run.
Adaptability & Nimbleness:
- Both Jason and Pedram stress that adaptability and nimbleness are essential traits for modern entrepreneurs and professionals. Pivots, often seen as setbacks, can in fact raise standards and unlock new potential.

2. Learning from Change—Stories from the Industry

A Partner’s Example:
- Pedram shares the story of a former partner—who was top in his field—being forced by firm strategy to pivot his practice. Instead of complaining, the partner approached the challenge as a new adventure, maintaining high standards and finding renewed prestige without ego (04:09–06:26).
- “He didn’t lower his standards either... he just essentially turned a few things around and still had the prestige without the ego.” (04:56)
Raising Standards Through Pivots:
- Jason observes that “most people... actually raise their standards when they make that lateral— that first lateral movement.” (06:26)
- The hosts discuss how world events (like Covid) can force companies to abandon legacy systems and build better ones on stronger foundations.

3. Inside the Pressure Cooker: Life as a Junior Associate

The Reality Vs. Pop Culture:
- Pedram jokes about the “Devil Wears Prada” environment and references Legally Blonde, highlighting not only the high-pressure realities but also the way legal culture can seem inaccessible or uninviting for newcomers (08:28).
- Memorable Movie Quote:
  - “But honey, you’re Ms. Runner up in the Hawaiian Tropics contest. Why would you throw all that away and go to law school? That’s for people who are boring and serious and unattractive. And you’re none of those, pumpkin.” (08:28)
Advice for Aspiring Lawyers:
- Pedram’s journey shows that resilience, humor, and self-reflection are as necessary as legal skills.

4. Pivoting to Found Mousavi Law—Bittersweet But Liberating

Leaving Big Law:
- Pedram likens leaving the firm to graduating high school—bittersweet, with a sense of loss but also of growth and new opportunity (09:51–10:40).
- “It’s bittersweet... it’s kind of like leaving high school in a way.” (10:37)
Dealing with Grief & Gut Feelings:
- Pedram started grieving the change even before his departure, sensing tectonic shifts in the legal industry (11:02–11:44).
- He describes ignoring gut feelings because of external pressure, but ultimately trusting intuition when many peers also left.
Industry Outlook:
- Forecasts increasing private equity ownership of major firms and further consolidation:
  - “In about, like, five to seven years, all the AmLaw 200 [firms], they’re going to be essentially owned by private equity... and then the AmLaw 100 will turn into like AmLaw 50…” (13:22–13:58)

5. AI and the Future of Law

Technology as Tool, Not Crutch:
- Pedram supports using AI-enhanced tools for efficiency but warns against overreliance—underscoring the irreplaceable value of human judgment (14:46–14:59).
- Jason’s observation: “I deal with clients that send contracts over and I’m like, you clearly put this through ChatGPT.” (14:41)
Rapid Advances, Cautions:
- Lighthearted reference to AI progress:
  - Jason: “Do you look at the Will Smith eating spaghetti litmus test for how good AI image creation gets?” (15:18)
  - Pedram: “Now I look at Jude Law’s billboard.” (15:25)
- Both see AI as an evolving toolset—not a replacement—for thoughtful, client-focused lawyering.

6. Defining Success in Law and Business

What Drives Lawyers?
- Pedram discusses a survey at his former firm measuring motivations (ego, money, camaraderie). Camaraderie was rarely a significant factor in Big Law, where money and prestige tend to dominate (16:21–17:17).
Stewardship Over Status:
- Senior lawyers sometimes see themselves as stewards of the practice (not just of junior associates), taking pride in preserving professional standards.
- “It was stewarding, like, the practice itself.” (18:11)

7. Personal Brand, Social Media & Forward Movement

LinkedIn & Digital Presence:
- Pedram reveals his focus on LinkedIn for professional outreach, crediting it with helping him make valuable connections as he builds his firm (19:15–19:38).
- Website (under construction): pedramousavi.com

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“What seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route.” — Pedram (00:00, 02:54)
“He didn’t lower his standards either... he just essentially turned a few things around and still had the prestige without the ego.” — Pedram (04:56)
Movie wisdom: “But honey, you’re Ms. Runner up in the Hawaiian Tropics contest... law school is for people boring and serious and unattractive.” — Legally Blonde, quoted by Pedram (08:28)
“It’s bittersweet... it’s kind of like leaving high school in a way.” — Pedram (10:37)
“It was like a mass exodus.” — Jason (12:33)
“In about, like, five to seven years... all the AmLaw 200 [firms] are going to be essentially owned by private equity.” — Pedram (13:22)
“I’m a firm believer in using the tools, but using them as tools.” — Pedram, on AI (14:46)
“Camaraderie actually didn’t score at all [in our law firm survey].” — Pedram (17:17)

Key Timestamps

00:00 — Pedram introduces his philosophy: safe routes may be risky.
02:54 — The lesson of adaptability and questioning safe paths in law/business.
04:09–06:26 — Story of top partner forced to (and succeeding with) a major career pivot.
08:28 — Pop culture references to the realities and perceptions of legal careers.
09:51–10:40 — Pedram discusses the emotional experience of leaving Big Law.
13:22–14:01 — Prediction about the future: private equity’s impact on the legal industry.
14:41–15:29 — Jason and Pedram talk AI’s advances and its limits in legal work.
16:21–17:17 — Motivational drivers in law: ego, money, or camaraderie.
19:15–19:59 — Pedram’s digital presence and the power of LinkedIn for professional growth.

Tone & Style

The conversation is open, thoughtful, and often laced with humor and pop culture references, reflecting both the intensity and the camaraderie of high-achieving legal professionals. Both Jason and Pedram blend hard-won professional insight with candid personal reflection, offering a motivating yet realistic look at what it means to build a legacy in today’s changing business world.

Where to Find Pedram

LinkedIn: Primary platform for professional presence and networking
Website: pedramousavi.com (coming soon/under construction as of recording)

This episode is essential listening for anyone considering a legal career, entrepreneurs contemplating a big pivot, or anyone navigating evolving industries. Pedram’s journey reveals that both risk and reward often lie on the less-traveled path, especially when you combine adaptability, authenticity, and a commitment to excellence.

Loading summary

Transcript88 lines

[00:00]
A
What seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route. And I say that as someone who did the whole academic thing, you know, big law and all of that. It's a different beast. It's not. It really is a system. And I would also say Pedra Mousavi
[00:21]
B
is a private capital attorney, entrepreneur and the founder of Mousavi Law. He helps investment managers, fund sponsors and business leaders navigate complex transactions with strategic legal counsel that drives long term growth
[00:34]
A
and lasting success in about like five to seven years. All the AmLaw, like sort of like 200 firms, they gotta be essentially owned by private equity. And then the AmLaw100 will turn into like AmLaw50 because I was just like, it spans the globe like a super high cold Internet. Elvis Preston. Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone.
[01:06]
B
It's not over until I win the Living your Legacy podcast.
[01:12]
A
For those who live to leave a legacy that's extraordinary. The impossible has happened. Oh, that is sensational. Jordan, open Chicago with the league. You said Paul is the fastest man on the planet. You can live your dream.
[01:31]
B
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Living youg Legacy podcast. I'm your host, Jason Tyler, and I am joined today by Pedram Mousavi of Mousavi Law. Pedram, welcome to the show. How you feeling?
[01:43]
A
Good, good. It's.
[01:46]
B
It feels like a cigar bar in here.
[01:47]
A
Yes.
[01:48]
B
Yeah. It's a very different environment from the studio. We just finished filming your episode for America's Top Lawyers. And first of all, how are you feeling now on the other side of it? Is it like a release? Like, all right, the weight's off my shoulders. I got it out a little bit.
[02:06]
A
I mean, it was fun. I was. I'm mostly proud of myself for not falling out of the director's chair. So I think we can talk. You know, all of my clients all
[02:18]
B
around, all of my clients know that I tell everybody, like, hey, the director's chair is not the most comfortable to sit in for 90 minutes. I think we did like two and a half hours in there. You're a soldier for, like, finishing the full session and, and sitting in the director's chair the whole time because I don't know how. I don't know how most people do it.
[02:35]
A
Well, I. I mean, I think I hadn't had lunch or breakfast, and so I, like, set some time was, you know, it was.
[02:43]
B
It was loopy.
[02:44]
A
Exactly.
[02:46]
B
One of the first questions that I always ask on this show is, you know, what would you say is like the number one lesson you want people to be able to learn from your story.
[02:55]
A
I say the number one lesson is that sometimes what seems like the safe route is actually the riskier route. And I say that as, you know, someone who obviously did the whole, like. Like, academic thing and, you know, big law and all of that. And I really cherish, like, relationships I made there, and also, look, the skills that developed and, you know, client relationships. But it's. It's a different. It's a different beast. It's not. It really is a system. Mm. And I would also say for people to just be nimble, I mean.
[03:50]
B
Yeah, you gotta be adaptable.
[03:52]
A
Yeah.
[03:52]
B
I think that's, like, one of the. One of the things that I hear a lot on this show from different entrepreneurs, different business owners in all avenues is, like, adaptability and flexibility are, like, hyper. Hyper important. If you're in business, like, you got to be able to kind of pivot at the drop of a hat.
[04:10]
A
Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean, one of the, you know, partners at my former firm that I worked with very closely, he basically was at the top of his field, like, what I say, top of his fields, like, you know, really up there, like. Like, you know, number one in the world. It is practice. And for, you know, various reasons, he had to, like, pivot a little bit because, like, just, like, the Ferb's business strategy, like, you know, and he did it with. I mean, without complaining, masterfully.
[04:55]
B
Still race.
[04:57]
A
Yes. And. Yeah, and he didn't lower his standards either. You know, like, he still believed in his, you know, ability to provide excellent advice to clients, and he just essentially turned a few things around and still had, you know, the prestige without. Without, like, the ego, you know, and. And I, you know, and. And you think somewhat at that level, right, where it's like, they've just, like, the blood and, you know, sweat and tears and. Well, now talk about the associates that work with them. No,
[05:51]
B
it wasn't his blood, sweat and tears. It's actually.
[05:55]
A
But, you know, it's like, like, you know, you know, you work that hard to get to, you know, the pinnacle of your career. You're like, yes, like. Like, you know, it's paid off, and then you have to pivot, and it's seeing it as a. A challenge and a new, you know, a new adventure and. And another thing to work hard at and, you know, succeed at.
[06:26]
B
I like that you said that he didn't, like, lower his standards in that pivot, because one thing that I notice a lot is actually to the contrary of that most people that I've seen have to pivot in business actually raise their standards when they make that lateral. That first lateral movement. Like, let's say, for example, somebody is running a restaurant, right? And their restaurants, like, one of the top restaurants in the world. And then they have to, for whatever reason, like, Covid hits, and they have to shut it down and they have to pivot into a completely new area of business. They actually take everything they learned from that previous venture and pivot it into the systems that they build in the new business. And the new business actually operates at such a high level right out of the gate that they end up building a new standard on top of that. Like, that's something that I've noticed in business owners. Would you say, like, kind of the
[07:22]
A
same for business owners? Definitely. I mean, especially if you're. When you have such a dramatic event, you know, in the world where all the old rules kind of go the window and it sounds like it. It really gives you a chance to kind of reflect and think, okay, what was it working? But, you know, but we're just, like, stuck with certain, like, legacy,
[07:53]
B
you know, systems.
[07:54]
A
Systems, and, you know, like, let the
[07:57]
B
old spots, let the old stuff wash away, and, like, we can build on what did work.
[08:01]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
[08:02]
B
Yeah. One of the, you know, one of the interesting points in your story, I think, was just kind of getting to hear your experience of being a junior associate and kind of working in that sort of devil wears Prada esque world. Talk to me a little bit about, like, for the. For the audience member out there who's listening, and they're like, oh, I'm about to go into law school. I can't wait to be a junior associate. What do they have in store for them?
[08:29]
A
Well, I mean, I would first quote Legally Blonde or her. Her mother's like, but, honey, you're Ms. Runner up in the Hawaiian Tropics concert. Why Kaidest, why would you throw all that away? Entered as, like, law school. That's. But that's for people who are boring and serious and unattractive. And you're none of those, pumpkin.
[09:05]
B
For the aspiring law student out there, I want all of you guys to go out and watch Legally Blonde and Legally Blonde, too. Well, another one of the things that I really liked about getting to listen to your story was, you know, getting. Not only did we just reference, like, having your former associate or your former partner that you worked with watching them pivot, but you also made your own pivot, right? And you pivoted out of working in big Law and went into creating your own firm. What was that? You know, what was that experience like for you? Of, like, having you've built all these relationships with clients in your tenure with this other firm and now getting to kind of put your own spin on it? What is that. What does that feel like for, you know, for a lawyer going into creating their own firm?
[09:52]
A
Well, it's very exciting now. Like, at first, it's especially, you know, when you spent so many years at a place working with a lot of people that you respect and you develop, like, close relationships with. I mean, not everybody, but people come and go, people move and et cetera. But with a lot of people, you do. And it's. It's bittersweet, you know. You know, it's the right thing, but. But at the same time, it's like, you know, it. It. It's. It's kind of like being at high school. It's like leaving high school in a way.
[10:37]
B
Oh, okay.
[10:37]
A
Or, like. Like, you know, it's like.
[10:39]
B
That's actually a great analogy for it, I think.
[10:41]
A
Yeah.
[10:41]
B
Yeah. It's. It's kind of. Did you grieve at all, like, the. I don't know, for me, like, anytime I've gone through, like, a major shift in life, I kind of spend a little bit of time just kind of grieving what was before. I'm able to, like, transition into what's gonna. What's coming next. Like, did you find that. Did that happen for you at all?
[11:02]
A
I did. I did, but, I mean, it was mixed because I feel like I started the grieving process, like, sooner before you actually let.
[11:15]
B
Yes, I understand.
[11:17]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, it's just. It's just the. The legal industry, like, has shifted so drastically in the last couple of years, and in the back of my mind, you know, like, a couple of years ago, started feeling, you know, just kind of knowing, but, like, not wanted to. You know, it's like.
[11:42]
B
It's that, like, it's gut feeling that you get.
[11:45]
A
It's a gut.
[11:46]
B
You don't want to trust it at first, but you're like, I know this is correct, but I don't want it to be correct.
[11:51]
A
Yeah. Especially when there's, like, a lot of people saying that, like. No. Like, it's not. It's.
[11:56]
B
Yeah. Because everybody wants to protect their own interests.
[11:59]
A
Yeah.
[11:59]
B
Like, no, no, no, no. Don't. Don't believe.
[12:01]
A
Yeah. And. And. And. And you're like, no. Like, it's. I feel like it's like anything that both my gut feeling and Just like my brain, I'm like, that doesn't make sense. But, you know, with, with, with some folks, it's, it's like, you know, the different incentives and then there's other ones that are, you know, like, oh, like we don't, you know, we don't want you to leave. Blah, blah. But then a lot of other people also left.
[12:33]
B
It was like a, A mass exodus.
[12:36]
A
Yeah, it's a, It's a huge change, really. Mass exodus, but also mass entrance, but not, but not in like, our particular, like, cohort or group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as I said, like, it's, it's. It's my, my sort of prediction. I mean, don't, you know, bet any money on it, but is that I'm
[13:07]
B
holding up Kelsey right now, actually.
[13:10]
A
Well, I mean, Kelsey might and not be proud by then, but I'm not saying any insider knowledge, but yeah,
[13:21]
B
I'm not taking it.
[13:23]
A
I can say all of these things now, and I don't have insider knowledge with anything. It's great. I could buy stocks. Like, I had a finance degree. I wasn't able to buy stocks for like 10 years. Like in about, like five to seven years. Like all the AMLA, like, sort of like 200 firms, are they going to be essentially owned by private equity?
[13:48]
B
Really?
[13:49]
A
Yeah. And then the Amla, like 100 will turn into like, Amla 50, because I
[13:58]
B
was just like, consolidate.
[14:01]
A
Consolidate.
[14:02]
B
Yeah. I feel like that makes a lot of sense, actually, because, like, another big part of what we talked about in your episode was like, the advent of AI and like, how it's being utilized, how it's cleaning up systems, but also at the same time, like, we're. We're kind of in the, I guess the wild, wild west in a sort of way with, like, seeing where AI is going to go as far as, like, agentic AI and all these different things. But I want to get your. Your take on, like, what does the future of law look like now that AI is here? Because I know a lot of people, even myself, I'm dealing with, you know, I deal with clients that send contracts over and I'm like, you clearly put this through ChatGPT. Yeah, yeah. What's your, what's your take on that?
[14:46]
A
So I, I'm a firm believer in using the tools, but using them as tools.
[14:58]
B
Don't rely on them fully.
[14:59]
A
No. And also using the right tools, it just, it does not have. I mean, it's, It's a wonder how, you know, quickly things have advanced, really, and they get better.
[15:18]
B
And better. But do you look at the Will Smith eating spaghetti litmus test for how good AI image creation gets?
[15:26]
A
Now I look at Jude Law's billboard.
[15:29]
B
Oh yeah, that, that works. Yeah, that works. Because you remember back like maybe, what was this? Like four years ago they had that AI video of Will Smith eating spaghetti and it was horrendously bad. And now they have like a full on like movie that is with multiple shot angles and voiceover and the whole thing. And it's like pretty indistinguishable from the real thing other than the voice. The voice is not there yet. So guys, if you're out there doing AI filmmaking, which I do a lot of, don't use AI for voice, go hire a voiceover artist. But I wanted to ask like, you know, we're here at Inside Success and this is one of my main questions that I ask all my clients here is like, for the business owner, the lawyer, the, the doctor, the whatever industry you're in, what's your, what is Pedram's number one key tip for success?
[16:21]
A
Everyone will have a different answer to it, really. Right. It's. By forever. We actually had this really interesting psychological survey of all the associates. And it was like a personality, like personality test based on three different metrics. It's saying, you know, what motivates people. And it was like ego, money, or camaraderie. And we are, our associates actually scored the highest high on all three. And the, the surveyor said that we were like the only big law firm that had camaraderie. Actually even like score at all.
[17:17]
B
You didn't score at all?
[17:18]
A
Yeah.
[17:19]
B
Oh, God.
[17:20]
A
Yeah. I think now for most people, it's, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's money or prestige for a lot of
[17:36]
B
people,
[17:39]
A
especially, you know, the advent of, you know, calling. Yeah, but with a partner. But, but I, I, I do see for, especially with a lot of the senior, the senior lawyers, it's more of a, like a stewardship that I, I, I see them take a lot of
[18:07]
B
pride in like stewarding the, the junior associates.
[18:11]
A
It was stewarding like the practice, the practice itself.
[18:16]
B
Because I was gonna say like the, the senior lawyers stewarding the junior lawyers is not accurate to the, I think the story that we told about like the Devil Wears Prada environment of being a junior associate.
[18:31]
A
Yeah. No, no, no, no. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's about, it's about the practice. It's not about, you know, Emily or, or, or whatever her name was.
[18:44]
B
Yeah. So as we kind of wind down here, guys. First of all, if you're still tuned in at this point in the pod, I want to make sure that you guys check out Pedram's episode of America's Top Lawyers, which should be coming out shortly after this podcast airs. So make sure you guys check that out to get a full deep dive on his story and his rise into creating his own law firm. But where can people find you on social media? Where can they find your firm on the Internet where you. Where's. Where are you located?
[19:16]
A
So I say LinkedIn is where I spent more much most of my time now in terms of like, social media for. For work. Which is really funny because two years ago, I think my LinkedIn profile said I was a law clerk still.
[19:34]
B
I think mine still says I'm a student. I do not use that thing at all. But I should.
[19:38]
A
It's actually done wonders for me, to be honest. Yeah. So LinkedIn. But by the time this comes out, I have the pedrobusabi.com will be in like, the better, better shape.
[19:57]
B
Got you got. So it's under construction?
[19:59]
A
It is, yeah.
[20:00]
B
Well, by the time you guys see this, it will no longer be under construction. And I'm also going to make sure for our editors, just put. I'm pointing in directions, but just put that his website somewhere on the screen. But Pedram, it has been an immense joy having you on the show. I think with that, I think that's a wrap for the day. I think we got through everything, huh?
[20:26]
A
Now time to get a wrap.
[20:28]
B
Very true, because this man has not eaten all day. But, guys, this has been another episode of the Living youg Legacy podcast. Again, I'm your host, Jason Tyler, and I will catch you guys in the next one.