Joy Loverde: Planning Ahead for Care Needs as You Get Older

Summary

The Long View: Joy Loverde on Planning Ahead for Care Needs as You Get Older

Episode Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Christine Benz, Amy Arnott
Guest: Joy Loverde, Author and Elder Care Consultant

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Main Theme

This episode explores the complexities and necessities of planning ahead for care needs as we age, driven by the expertise and real-life experience of Joy Loverde, author of The Complete Elder Care Planner and Who Will Take Care of Me When I'm Old?. The conversation unpacks the emotional, financial, and practical dimensions of aging—and how to have proactive conversations about care, housing, independence, family dynamics, and end-of-life planning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joy Loverde’s Journey and Motivations

• Personal Context: Joy shares her background as a lifelong caregiver and her shift from advertising to elder care advocacy, influenced by her experiences with family and volunteering in nursing homes.
  • “The people who are attending these programs of mine are not only family caregivers, but explaining to me that they are wondering who's going to do that for them.” (01:53, Joy Loverde)

2. Evolving Nature of Family Caregiving

• The traditional model—children caring for parents—is shifting, with many now concerned about their own future care, especially as more people age alone.
• Joy’s marketing background led her to identify a gap and write her second book specifically addressing solo agers. (04:41)

3. Setting a Positive Vision for Aging

• Joy urges listeners to use “time travel” as a planning exercise: talk to people 20-30 years older to learn what successful, enjoyable aging looks like and what can help avoid regrets.
  • “The concept of time travel is actually communicating with people who are way older than us to give us hints as to what it might be like.” (05:59, Joy Loverde)

4. The Consequences of Not Planning

• Facing a sudden diagnosis like Parkinson’s or Alzheimer’s can be “too late” for ideal legal, financial, and personal preparations.
  • “We need to think way, way in advance that if this happens, then I have my legal documents in order and I have my financial house in place.” (08:07-08:36, Joy Loverde)

5. Family Care Dynamics & Emotional Toll

• Joy describes the Italian model of multigenerational living as emotionally positive but recognizes most Americans live differently now, highlighting the importance of intentional communication and support networks. (09:54-10:50)
• The emotional contradictions of caregiving—love mixed with anger, stress, and guilt—are normal. Therapy and honest conversations with friends are highly recommended.
  • “There are so many emotions at any given time, and they come out of left field all the time.” (11:43, Joy Loverde)

6. Setting Boundaries & Navigating Sibling Dynamics

• Boundaries prevent burnout: communicate needs clearly, involve siblings, and don’t default all tasks to one family member.
  • “It's all about communicating clearly. But that's not always easy because… we get afraid.” (13:13, Joy Loverde)
• Sibling relationships often fraught; family meetings (without parents present) are crucial for hashing out responsibilities. (15:13-16:23)
• On gender roles: Caregiving roles disproportionately fall to women, particularly eldest daughters; Joy encourages more equal participation from male siblings.
  • “If we don't [assert ourselves as equals], shame on us.” (17:09, Joy Loverde)

7. The Centrality of Housing

• The most critical issue for aging is housing—where you live dictates your support network and ability to access help. Isolation in suburbia can set up failure, while “life plan communities” or dense urban buildings support informal networks.
  • “Where you live matters... We will depend more and more on our friends and our neighbors.” (19:07, Joy Loverde)

8. Pros and Cons of Aging in Place

• Possible if you have strong social ties, sufficient finances, ability to manage staff, and remain healthy.
• Challenges include social isolation, declining ability, managing in-home help, and technology gaps. (21:29-22:19)
• Aging in place “has a shelf life”: for most, there comes a time when transitioning to a community setting is safer and healthier. (22:19, Joy Loverde)

9. Assisted Living and Institutional Care

• Quality varies; families need to research facilities carefully, prioritizing settings that acknowledge emotional and spiritual needs.
• Family involvement often drops when someone moves to assisted living—preparing for that reality is crucial.
  • “Family estrangement has been skyrocketing… Family could go away at any given time and they do.” (24:21-27:05, Joy Loverde)

10. Creative Housing Alternatives

• Trend toward forming small private communities (e.g., seven friends purchasing a home and hiring staff).
• Joy herself lives in a naturally occurring retirement community (NORC)—a high-rise with multi-age, supportive, organic bonds.
  • “People are taking it upon themselves to create their own home environment… but eventually that whole falls apart.” (28:33-30:54, Joy Loverde)

11. Planning for Solo Agers

• Three keys:
  1. Financial security
  2. Community-centric housing
  3. Clear legal documents (including addenda for situations like Alzheimer's)
  • “People who live alone need to make sure that they are financially secure.” (31:59, Joy Loverde)

12. End-of-Life: Hospice and Death Doulas

• Not all hospice care is equal; interview multiple providers and get referrals.
• Death doulas (privately hired) offer compassionate, robust support for both individual and family.
  • “A death doula is… someone who helps you and the family through the process of dying and death.” (37:31, Joy Loverde)

13. Facing Death and Talking About It

• Western culture often hides death; encouraging open dialogue, especially with children, can normalize the end-of-life experience and maintain important family connections.
  • “People are so afraid of death… they even go so far as to keep a child away from the funeral or the wake. And I think that's a big mistake.” (38:58-40:13, Joy Loverde)

14. Utilizing Professionals and Technology

• Establish relationships with professionals (geriatric care/life plan managers, financial planners) sooner rather than later; “test drive” your support. (40:36-41:34)
• Technology can assist but isn’t a complete replacement for personal, human connection. Start with small steps: encourage smartphone adoption before exploring advanced solutions like robotic helpers. (41:34-43:42)

15. Overcoming Overwhelm: How to Start Planning

• Advice for the overwhelmed: Just start. Pick something small from the book’s table of contents, do one task, and build momentum from there.
  • “Just do one thing. That's it. Put the book away. Accomplish one thing.” (46:51, Joy Loverde)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Evolution of Care:

  • “It's no longer 'I'm going to take care of somebody', it's also 'who's going to take care of me?'” (01:53, Joy Loverde)

• On the Importance of Planning:

  • “If you are diagnosed and have no plans in place, then unfortunately it may be too late to have exactly what you want.” (08:07, Joy Loverde)

• On Sibling Relationships:

  • “If we're lucky enough to have siblings in a caregiving situation, first thing you would need to do is have a family meeting and get it all out in the open, the good, the bad, and the ugly.” (15:47, Joy Loverde)

• On Housing:

  • “Where you live matters. And why it matters where we live is because it's all about an informal network of help.” (19:07, Joy Loverde)

• On Starting Small:

  • “Just do one thing. That's it. Put the book away. Accomplish one thing.” (46:51, Joy Loverde)

• On Embracing Male Caregivers:

  • “I tread lightly… and once they do, they find out that it is one of the most rewarding experiences they've ever had.” (17:49, Joy Loverde)

• On Technology:

  • “I'm not a believer of technology taking over caregiving anyway. So what happens is I just usually start slowly and introduce the idea of a smartphone…” (42:03, Joy Loverde)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and Joy’s background: 01:20–04:17
• Why planning for your own care matters: 04:41–05:20
• Vision boards and “time travel” for aging: 05:20–07:40
• Health crises and the urgency of early planning: 07:40–09:38
• Emotional challenges for caregivers: 11:10–12:52
• Caregiving boundaries and sibling dynamics: 13:13–17:09
• Housing decisions—why and how they matter: 19:07–22:19
• Assisted living and family disengagement: 23:39–27:05
• Creative and community-based housing options: 28:15–31:42
• Solo aging: planning and prioritizing: 31:42–33:09
• Legal steps including Alzheimer’s provision: 33:09–34:24
• Hospice and death doula guidance: 34:24–38:23
• Emotional candidness about death: 38:23–40:13
• Working with professionals and integrating technology: 40:13–43:42
• Book, movie, and resource recommendations: 44:01–45:36
• How to get started despite overwhelm: 46:27–48:06

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Resource & Book Recommendations

• Book: My Mother’s Money by Beth Pinsker (praised as a practical and emotionally resonant guide for managing caregiving and finances) (44:27, Joy Loverde)
• Worksheet tip: Use the books’ table of contents to pick just one actionable step at a time. (46:27–48:06)

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Tone & Takeaways

Down-to-earth, candid, and empathetic, the episode balances practical advice with acknowledgment of the heavy emotions and family dynamics often involved in aging and caregiving. Listeners are encouraged to start somewhere—no matter how small—and to initiate conversations early with family, friends, and professionals.

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For Further Learning

Visit JoyLoverde.com for worksheets and downloadable checklists. Consider community resources like Chicago’s Renaissance Center for seniors and connect with area agencies on aging.

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Transcript

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[Amy Arnott]

Hi and welcome to the Longview. I'm Amy Arnott, Portfolio Strategist for Morningstar.

[Christine Benz]

And I'm Christine Benz, Director of Personal Finance and Retirement Planning for Morningstar.

[Amy Arnott]

Our guest on the podcast today is Joy Laverde. Joy is the author of who Will Take Care of Me When I'm Old? And the Complete Elder Care Planner. She also gives keynotes and workshops on aging and elder care to many different types of organizations. In addition, she serves as a consultant to senior housing providers, HR professionals, attorneys, financial planners, clergy, and other members of the elder care industry. She's also been a family caregiver to family and friends. Joy, welcome to the Longview.

[Joy Laverde]

Thank you so much.

[Amy Arnott]

We're happy to have you here. So we wanted to focus most of our time talking about your two books, the Complete Elder Care Planner and who Will Take Care of Me When I'm Old? But we wanted to spend a little time first talking about your background. You write that you've been a family caregiver most of your adult life and have spent time taking care of your parents as well as friends. What were some of the things that you learned from that journey?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, not only have I been a caregiver most of my life, I have also been on the road for over 45 years talking to family caregivers. And collectively I have started to see a theme, and the most important one right now is the fact that the people who are attending these programs of mine are not only family caregivers, but explaining to me that they are wondering who's going to do that for them. So the whole conversation about family caregiving is actually evolving. It's no longer I'm going to take care of somebody, it's also who's going to take care of me.

[Christine Benz]

We wanted to just spend a few moments on your background. Joy, you had a successful career working in advertising in Chicago for about 20 years. What made you decide to pivot and spend more time writing and giving speeches and workshops on the topic of elder care.

[Joy Laverde]

Well, actually, I became my own client after I saw the need for people to plan for elder care. And that visual happened when I was in high school, actually, when I went to a nursing home on Thanksgiving morning. I went to an all girls Catholic high school here in Chicago, and I was asked to volunteer. And when we got to the nursing home, this is back in the late 60s, everybody who was in the nursing home, I was surprised. I mean, where are these people's family? And so on. And so I was compelled to continue to visit nursing homes in an effort to lighten things up on this day of thanks. But I realized that that wasn't getting me anywhere. So when I was about 40 and yes, I was working at J. Walter Thompson here in Chicago, I saw that if I would just create some kind of communication system, which ended up being the first edition of the Complete Elder Care Planner, that I could just get families to talk to each other. And that is indeed what has taken place way back since the 1980s now.

[Amy Arnott]

So you mentioned the Complete Elder Care Planner, which was your first book that was published back in 1993. I think there are a total of four editions of that book. I'm curious, what was the impetus for publishing who Will Take Care of Me When I'm Old, which speaks more directly to individuals who are aging in 2017?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, actually, again, standing in front of rooms full of people, family caregivers, they would come up to me afterward and they would say, I'm doing this for my parents and grandparents and relatives, but I don't know who's going to do this for me. And this was my, you know, my marketing background kicked in once again, my communication background. And I said, I need to write about this. So that happened about 13 years ago. And I saw that people who live alone was going to be an entirely new category of people who needed assistance as they aged.

[Christine Benz]

So to set the stage for thinking about aging and a plan for aging, you think it's helpful to do kind of a vision board of what aging successfully looks like to you, where you're visualizing your future self, which we know people have trouble doing, especially if they're younger. And making a list of what you like most about yourself and presumably sort of features that you want to keep going throughout your whole life. Can you talk about why taking steps like that can be helpful? And it seems like a benefit is that it kind of puts a positive spin on what can seem like kind of a sad and depressing topic.

[Joy Laverde]

Right? Right. We have, there's all these myths that are floating around in the world about what it means to age. Right. And we only have what advertising tells us or, or all the pharmaceutical ads on the news and in the media. So what I had suggested in the book was to talk about the concept of time travel. And what that means is looking around you and see who is in your immediate space. People who are hopefully 20 and 30 years older than you and approaching them under certain circumstances. Maybe you're at a wedding or maybe you're in a social situation where you can ask them, hi, I'd like to get to know more about you. What is it that you are doing in your, in your age now that is making you happy? Or is there anything you would have done differently as you aged? The kind the concept of time travel is actually communicating with people who are way older than us to give us hints as to what it might be like. So in that process, what's going to happen is you are going to see people who are not doing so well and at the same time, you're going to be right smack dab, face to face with people who are aging full out, running marathons, living a healthy life, working far into their old age. This is what's missing in the process of planning. And that's why I introduced time travel as a way to get to know yourself in the future.

[Amy Arnott]

I also wanted to ask about health issues that can sometimes come up as we get older or even during middle age. One of your friends was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's and I'm wondering what are some steps people can take if they're faced with either a similar health issue or a different type of health issue that might be very difficult to deal with.

[Joy Laverde]

Well, I love your question because it has a real quick answer. If you are diagnosed and have no plans in place, then unfortunately it may be too late to have exactly what you want. Which goes back to the process of, or the question rather of when do we start planning?

When we are faced with a diagnosis, let's say of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's, something that is chronic, People don't realize how very expensive these diseases will be and how it will wreak havoc on our financial stability. So it isn't a matter of when we're diagnosed. What can we do? We need to think way, way in advance that if this happens, then I have my legal documents in order and I have my financial house in place. We have to assume that there will be certain Things that we need to plan for far in advance. Unfortunately. I see so many situations where people say, I never thought it would happen to me. And then they're behind the eight ball the whole way, including who's going to take care of them.

[Christine Benz]

So I just want to fill in a little bit about your story, Joy. Can you talk about your caregiving journey? Because that sounds like it was such an important influence in why you are passionate about educating people about this topic. Can you share a little bit about that?

[Joy Laverde]

Sure. Being Italian, we have old people in our lives all the time. It's not unusual. And so I have many role models for caregiving. My grandmother and my mother and aunts and uncles. So it really surprised me when I was meeting people along the way who did not have these experiences of having older people or close relationships in their lives. You know, it's not unusual for all of us to live in the same apartment building and take a three flat and we all move in. Right. But this is not how America works anymore. And so my personal caregiving experience is having a lot of role models and many positive experiences. Being together for holidays, celebrations.

The food and the music going on for no particular reason other than were together. I found out from friends of mine that this is not how their families work. And it saddened me so. And so that was another reason for me trying to get families together to start communicating.

[Amy Arnott]

So you mentioned that if you are someone who's a family caregiver, you're sort of presented with a vision of your own mortality. And the book also mentions that people often feel both extremely loving toward the person who needs care, but also angry about being put in the situation of caregiving and all of the additional stress and labor that it involves. How can people navigate those types of emotional issues?

[Joy Laverde]

They have to have a safe place to go to, to talk and to express their honest feelings. Therapy. I couldn't get through much of my caregiving without therapy because the relationships could get fractured and the communication lines can be shut down at any given time. It is a highly emotional experience for everyone, the caregiver and the care receiver. So it's normal. Human nature kicks in when we look at the person that we are there for and they're yelling at us, what are we to do? There are so many emotions at any given time, and they come out of left field all the time. And there's no way that I could ever experience the positive aspects of my caregiving without having someone professional to talk to and then good friends where I could go to my friends and tell them exactly how I feel and they will not judge me.

[Christine Benz]

So it sounds like a support network is essential. Your book, the Complete Elder Care Planner, also discusses setting boundaries for caregivers so that they don't get overextended. What are some of your suggestions for the best ways to do that if you are in a caregiving role? How to ensure that it doesn't completely subsume your life?

[Joy Laverde]

Yeah, sure, communication is key when it comes to not only having caregiving overwhelm our lives, but it also helps prevent burnout. People who say yes to every whim that people ask us for, and we say, sure, I can do that. So, number one, we have to set boundaries, and we set it by communicating clearly and not being afraid to communicate clearly. It also has to do with expressing ourselves in terms of our needs. We could say possibly to siblings, and dad needs to go to the doctor. He needs to go on, you know, next week, which day are you available? Not will you take him, but I'm going to give you a choice. The same thing for our elders when they ask us, joy, can you run me to the grocery store and say, I'm sorry, I can't, but maybe. And then I would name all my siblings. Maybe Jimmy and Carolyn, Peter and Linda can help you. So it's all about communicating clearly. But that's not always easy because we get afraid. We're afraid of what might happen. So we have to be the brave person in the room and communicate as best we can and be very clear about our own needs.

[Christine Benz]

It seems like part of the issue, too, is that you want to come through this experience with a good relationship with your siblings. Right. That you don't want to end up in a really fraught situation with them. And so it does seem like there's a risk if you're saying, oh, take dad next Tuesday or something, you know, that it could start setting up tensions. And you really do want to preserve your relationships with your siblings. Right?

[Joy Laverde]

This is such an important topic because our siblings are not on the same page.

So how do we do that? We need to ask questions of them. There are times when we may ask our siblings for help, and a sibling may say, mom doesn't need help. You're making it up. She doesn't need help, she's fine. So we have siblings who are in total denial of any help that is needed and other siblings who simply say, you're the girl in the family. You do it. You wrote a book about elder care. You to it. What?

So the first thing, if we have siblings. If we're lucky enough to have siblings in a caregiving situation, first thing you would need to do is have a family meeting and get it all out in the open, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And there has to be rules about the family meeting, so no one's beaten up on somebody else. And I have a very long list of how to create a real, healthy family meeting. And you don't have just one. You have as many as you need be. And by the way, the parents are not invited.

[Amy Arnott]

Yeah. So I hate to engage in gender stereotypes, but just in talking to some of my friends, it does seem like sometimes there's a pattern where male adult children seem to be either less aware of what is involved in caregiving, or maybe there's a little bit of denial and kind of a disproportionate burden ends up landing on the daughters of the family and often the eldest daughter. What do you think is behind that? Is it just sort of, you know, the assumption that women should be the caregivers? Because that's a traditional role.

[Joy Laverde]

Absolutely. This is historical, you know, the woman's place. What are our roles now? Who's going to help us with that if that's not what we want? No one. We must assert ourselves as equal partners in this situation. And if we don't, shame on us.

[Amy Arnott]

I would imagine that it could also be valuable for male adult children to have an opportunity to spend more time with their parents as they get older and not miss out on that experience.

[Joy Laverde]

It is quite an incredible experience, there's no doubt about it. And so encouraging our brothers and other males in our family to be present is also one of the things that I do. And they light up a lot of times when they realize that there are some seriously wonderful relationships to. To nurture at this time. So, yes, I tread lightly when I. When I go forward and encourage the males to participate. And once they do, they find out that it is one of the most rewarding experiences they've ever had.

[Christine Benz]

You look at aging through a number of lenses. The elder care aspect of it, as well as kind of setting ourselves up to age successfully. So, wanted to talk about some dimensions of that as we all look forward to our later years. Can we talk about housing, which is a focus of yours, starting with continuing care retirement communities, which have become an increasingly popular option for older adults as they're thinking about their housing later in life.

[Joy Laverde]

I think that housing is the number one issue. When people say to me, where do I start? I say, where you live matters. And why it matters where we live is because it's all about an informal network of help. And we all know that the care working crisis, it is just moving forward faster than the speed of light and that more and more people are becoming unavailable to help us. And we will depend more and more on our friends and our neighbors. So where we live has everything to do with someone having immediate access to us. And also we have forged relationships. So it's a process that takes time. And right now, if you're sitting in your own house, all alone in a neighborhood where it requires you to get in a car and go somewhere and people don't knock on your door and you're not in a community environment that is a setup for failure for the aging process.

Oh, unless of course, you have tons of money to bring people in to help with services. But as I mentioned a few minutes ago, those people who are going to be helping us are going by the wayside. So where we live, where we live is super important. And you mentioned continuing care communities. They are now referred to as life plan communities where people go in healthy, live independently and stay there for the rest of their lives and have wonderful relationships, someone to always rely on no matter what.

[Amy Arnott]

A lot of older adults have a very strong desire to stay in their own homes. And I'm wondering what are some of the challenges of aging in place you mentioned? You know, if you are isolated, that can be a big problem. But are there steps elders can take to have a more positive experience? If they have a strong desire not to move to a community based facility.

[Joy Laverde]

It definitely can be a positive experience. If you have time to forge relationships, if you have a lot of money to pay for services and you have designated other people to manage the process. For example, if you do have people coming in and let's say you get more forgetful or you are diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's, who's going to manage the staff? Who's going to manage the people coming in and out? What's the safety factor here? Technology is also going to play a very important part in staying home. Aging in place. What happens if the Internet goes down? What if the technology is not up to date? Who is going to manage technology?

Another focus of aging in place that nobody ever thinks about is nutrition. The idea of aging in place has to do with staying healthy. So if you're healthy, great, but that requires eating right and exercising. Because nobody ever says we have to fall apart when we get old, right? You can be healthy, you can eat right, you can have a high quality of life and one of those days you never wake up. Game over. But aging in place requires a diligence that is constant until you decide, no, this is too hard. I need to put myself more in a community setting. Like I said, it's not an impossible task. However, it has a shelf life and it's very difficult.

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[Christine Benz]

You talk about a number of different care settings in the book, including assisted living. And you write that they can be disempowering because one of the challenges is the daily relentless exposure to, in your words, despair, disease, dementia, dying and death. So how can people mitigate the negative impact of this exposure? Avoid getting depressed if they're in this situation. And I'd also like you to address joy, the fact that family may pull back a little bit if they know that you are fully cared for in this setting, that your basic needs are being met. They may be a little less engaged with you. So can you talk about that?

[Joy Laverde]

Sure. The first part of your question about how do you live in that kind of environment where the truth of the matter is people are not so healthy. Well, the good news is I have had over 40 years of going all over the country, in fact all over the world, and I have seen for myself excellent assisted living communities. We have one here in Chicago that's in Clarendon Hills called the Birches. There are assisted living communities that are excellent and they also have therapists and they have spiritual programs and they have a family environment that helps us in the midst of that kind of truthful home situation. So number one, you really have to do your homework and look around for assisted living communities that are not ignoring the residents needs. The second part about families not visiting so much is absolutely true, unfortunately. Which means all our lives we must be diligent about creating our own needs. Family could go away at any given time and they do. Especially in this day and age, family estrangement has been skyrocketing and the reason is because of social media so articles are coming out in newspapers and magazines about, hey, daughters and sons, if you don't want to take care of your parents, it's okay, say goodbye. And there are books coming out that say how to separate from your parents. I mean, this is, this is a serious problem in America, how the family is disengaging and social media is playing a big part. So whether you're living at home or whether you're living in assisted living, know for a fact that family members do not expect to be taken advantage of in any given way. I talk about this in my presentations. I tell the people in the room, please do your homework and understand how much stress your adult children are under. Raising children in this environment, working full time and thinking about you, all of this in the mix, you must prepare so that you don't lean on them unless they're totally fine with it. So there's a certain amount of respect of the adult child that I also am adamant about.

[Amy Arnott]

And it seems like it goes back to open communication on both sides where if you're the aging parent, you want to be able to tell your children what you need and if you would like them to visit more often. But also, if you're the adult child, you want to be able to communicate with your parents, you know, what else is going on with your life, and try to kind of find a middle ground.

[Joy Laverde]

Oh, yeah, the family has changed dramatically in the past 15 years. A lot of it has to do with people living longer. So you have people who are living, you know, 90, 100, no big deal anymore. Right. And the adult child now can be 70 and even 80 years old. How about that?

[Amy Arnott]

So you can have the parent, the parents and the child both aging at the same time.

[Joy Laverde]

Yes, I've seen a lot of adult children visit the Life Plan communities together with the intention of moving in together. And they're both over 65.

[Amy Arnott]

You also write about some less traditional housing options, such as naturally occurring retirement communities or the village to village network. Are there any other kind of creative approaches to senior housing that seem promising to you?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, one real interesting concept is one where there is a company in Scottsdale, Arizona that has a template. So if you gather seven of your rich friends, if you have friends who have money, you can go to this company and you can say, okay, we want to set up our own assisted living community. And then this company helps seven friends set up their own house, including purchasing a house, a single family dwelling. And then people all move in that know each other and they have enough money to sustain and pay the staff and nine yards, I mean, how's that? So you buy your own assisted living community. That's one real creative idea.

[Amy Arnott]

So it's sort of like a more structured approach to the Golden Girls.

[Joy Laverde]

Exactly. Only this time, your nurse is right in the next room. So that's one fun thing that I've learned about. Definitely. People are taking it upon themselves to create their own home environment. But like I said, it's no different. Just because you get three friends to move in with you, you're still aging in place, and eventually that whole falls apart. If you get sick, somebody has to move, somebody dies, can't find help, it's a problem. So I'm a real, real believer now. I live in a Newark, the naturally occurring retirement community. So I live in a big high rise in Chicago. And we definitely have a solid system of informal network of support. I've helped facilitate with families the death of neighbors. And they were surrounded by loved ones, including me, and food and everything that is needed to help someone transition to a peaceful and dignified death. And that's what happens here in my apartment building. But we have a lot of young people and dogs, and so we have all generations. Unfortunately, you can't hang the sign up that says we're a naturally occurring retirement community because it's young and old.

[Christine Benz]

Well, that's what I wanted to ask Joy. Did you know it? Was that when you moved in there or did it just sort of evolve that way?

[Joy Laverde]

It evolved. And so all of the apartment buildings here in the Old Town area are evolving into Norcs, because we love where we live and people are getting older and we don't need a car and the grocery store is down the street. Right. So the whole neighborhood is evolving. But one of the neighborhoods here in Chicago that has always been a Newark concentrated apartment buildings is on Sheridan Road going toward Loyola, as many of those apartment buildings have been Newarks for a long time, only they didn't know it.

[Christine Benz]

I wanted to ask about solo agers. About a third of Americans between the ages of 45 and 63 are aging alone, without a spouse or close family member. What steps would you advise people to take if they're in that position of being a solo ager?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, there are three things, and in this order, people who live alone need to make sure that they are financially secure. So they need to go to financial planners, wealth managers, and make sure they have enough money, because this is the population of people who will rely heavily on professional advisors like financial planners, lawyers, geriatric case managers, and so on. So the use of professionals will cost money. So number one is money. Number two, housing. They are wise to get themselves in a community setting as we just described. And number three, they've got to get their legal papers in order. Who's going to make their decisions? What if they have no one? How do they do that? So legal documents must be put in order. Power of attorney for health care, power of attorney for finances, and also living, you know, any special instructions? Living wills and so on. So it's three money, housing, legal documents.

[Amy Arnott]

So related to the topic of living wills, you recommend working with an attorney to add an Alzheimer's provision to your living will. Can you talk more about what that provision might cover and why it can be helpful?

[Joy Laverde]

Sure. Once you diagnose with Alzheimer's, your signing documents days are over. So all of this has to be done ahead of time. You can make decisions, you can put it in writing about where you want to live and how your finances will be taken care of. It all has to be in writing, including the use of organizations that are in the neighborhood that will be available. So there's a lot of work to be done with an Alzheimer's provision. Add on to our wills, but it's well worth the time. It describes what you will and will not have done because at some point you may not be able to communicate your wishes. So it has to be clearly, in the event that I am diagnosed with Alzheimer's, these are my wishes and keep it as an addendum to your will.

[Christine Benz]

Sticking with the sunny topics here, I.

[Amy Arnott]

Wanted to ask about hospice.

[Christine Benz]

What people should look for in a hospice program if they have a loved one who's approaching the end of life. I remember that situation with my parents where you really are flying by and so you're very reliant on whoever is giving you instruction. And I guess it depends on capacity for the hospice as well. But can you talk about that? What should people be looking for?

[Joy Laverde]

Yeah, people don't even realize there's bad hospice and good hospice. And a bad hospice is when they don't provide support or they are unfamiliar with the dying process, which happens. We had somebody come in from hospice and my mother in law was dying and she took one look at my mother in law in bed and walked out the door. She said, I'm not getting paid for this. So we went, okay, wrong hospice. So the first thing to do is get a referral from the doctor's office, medical team at the doctor's office or the hospital. Those are two reliable sources. But don't just talk to one hospice organization. Make sure you at least vet 3. Also, people need to know that there's medical equipment that could be provided by the hospice organization that is covered by Medicare, at least it is right now. And so one of the questions to ask would be, will you bring in a hospital bed? Will you provide the medications, and how often will you visit it? And what's the procedure when we no longer can see the person being alive very much longer? Like, you want to. You want to dig in. And of course, I offer all that kind of information in the books.

[Christine Benz]

So you mentioned to gather information from a few different hospice providers, but what are you looking for? You're probably handed a few brochures, and it's really hard to know, you know, what differentiates them.

[Joy Laverde]

You need to have them come to the house and to interview them. You need to have a gut feeling for them. But it only goes so far. You still have to have references. You still have to have a good referral, because hospice is a business. And you also need to make sure, of course, that it is covered by Medicare for the generation of people who qualify for Medicare. And if the person is younger, then you have to find what is the payment system. What's that all about? Basically, that's why we always talk to at least three providers.

[Amy Arnott]

Another caregiving option for helping people kind of make the transition toward the end of life is a death doula. And I think a lot of people are probably familiar with doulas who help with childbirth, but maybe not as familiar with death doulas. Can you talk a little bit about what type of support those caregivers can provide?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, a death doula is indeed, as it sounds, someone who helps you and the family through the process of dying and death. Someone who can become a support network for everyone involved. And this person can also make recommendations on music for the dying process. Anything to do with elevating the dignity and the respect of the dying process. The doula is that point person. Now, this person is not free and not available, you know, through Medicare. This is someone that we hire. But they are worth their weight in gold. They're incredibly compassionate people who could come in at a time when we all need it the most.

[Christine Benz]

You're a big believer in speaking candidly about death. We're hearing from you just now about these various phases toward the end of life. You write in the book about Father Thomas Fisher, who was a pastor at your Catholic school. He was one of your favorite teachers and died in a plane crash at age 27. You write that many of the teachers and other adults at the school tried to avoid upsetting the children by talking about his death. Can you talk about why you think throughout our lives it's helpful to talk about death and share feelings about it?

[Joy Laverde]

It's certainly a cultural thing. In our culture, we hide death around a dark cor. And not everyone does that, though, especially with children nowadays who have grandparents who are young and vital. And then the grandchildren and the grandparents grow together, and then they see possible changes with the grandparent. And the parents of the children now have a tendency, or hopefully they do, to keep the relationship going and assist the child with the changes of the grandparent. And that's one of the benefits of this longevity evolution that's happening as we could keep it together. The obvious importance is the relationships between children and older members of the family. There's no downside whatsoever. But as I mentioned in the book, people are so afraid of death and they even go so far as to keep a child away from the funeral or the wake. And I think that's a big mistake.

[Amy Arnott]

I also wanted to circle back to the whole topic of getting help. If you're in a caregiving role, when does it make sense to hire someone who can help you manage that process? They used to be called geriatric care managers. I think they're now known as life care managers.

[Joy Laverde]

We know that relationships take a long time, and so we have to anticipate that we're going to find people that are not suited for us. But the only way we find that out is by testing it. I always encourage people who are interested in hiring aging life plan professionals and others like lawyers, financial planners. Anyone who we are going to eventually hire or hire is. We have to establish these relationships while we have the mental capacity to do so. And then we have to test those relationships. How are you going to be there for me? What happens if I can't make a phone call? And what's the system we're going to establish so that, you know, I might need help? All of these things have to be done far in advance of when we actually do need the help, especially for people who are living alone and that they are relying on professionals to come to their beck and call.

[Christine Benz]

In your book, the Complete Elder Care Planner, you discuss some advances in technology that can help people as they age. You talk about floor model, AI powered robotic companions, intuition, robots, robotic walkers, animatronic pets. But is there a disconnect between how quickly technology is advancing and how willing people might be to start interacting with some of these technologies.

[Joy Laverde]

Sure, some of the younger elders are loving the robotics and taking full advantage of them, but many are not. So I go back to just see if your parents are willing to get a smartphone. Start there. So a smartphone is different than a regular phone. We all know that there are apps on there that will save their lives. We know that there are systems in place like Find my and all of the that will help a person stay connected in a technology way. So yeah, there's robots and all these wonderful fun gizmos out there, but it's far fetched to think that most people will latch onto them. And I'm not a believer of technology taking over caregiving anyway. So what happens is I just usually start slowly and introduce the idea of a smartphone to someone who is afraid of technology or doesn't want to have anything to do with it. Or even an iPad that's a little bigger and easier to navigate. Just see if you can get that far. And if you do great, then you're on your way and the robotics can be left for somebody else who's more adventurous.

[Amy Arnott]

And I would think that navigating technology could also be an opportunity for grandparents to spend more time with their grandchildren who could probably, you know, help them figure out the smartphone or how to use different apps and things like that.

[Joy Laverde]

Right. It's certainly no replacement for people actually being in person. Right. And I always encourage that. Like I, I know the FaceTime and all that, that's all wonderful, but we all have to get on airplanes if we have to and get in the car and be together there.

[Amy Arnott]

So in who Will Take Care of Me when I'm Old? At the end of each chapter, you include a list of different resources, including websites, movies, books, other resources that people might want to read related to aging and care later in life. Are there any books that you'd put at the top of your must read list?

[Joy Laverde]

There's a book that just came out by a woman who's a financial columnist. Her name is Beth Pinsker and she just came out with a book called My Mother's Money and it's a guide for caregiving and managing money for parents. And I love her approach. It's written in a way that we can all understand the need and also the approach to managing money financially successfully and longevity, paying for a longer life. So it's got everything in it. It just came out this week.

[Amy Arnott]

Yeah, Christine and I actually interviewed her for the podcast and both of us really enjoyed reading that book.

[Joy Laverde]

Great.

[Amy Arnott]

It's you know, kind of chronicles her actual experiences helping her mom. So it has a lot of practical information, but you also get to see kind of the emotional side of what she went through.

[Joy Laverde]

Right, right. And she did go through a lot. And people who read that book will find out, oh, my goodness, I'm not alone. You know, she made it real.

[Christine Benz]

What movies stand out in your mind, Joy, as being especially realistic depictions of aging?

[Joy Laverde]

I love when there are movies about siblings who are arguing.

And trying to negotiate their parents as they age. Those are the movies that are so realistic and help us all understand that this is. This is so difficult. And yet when we feel the emotions through someone else's experience in a movie, it helps us calm down. So there are several movies that have these family relationships. I just can't think of any of the names right now, but those are my go to movies, and I cry a lot.

You know.

[Amy Arnott]

So in the book, you also include a lot of different worksheets and checklists, and I think you also have some resources on your website that people can download. I'm curious, what steps can people take if they feel overwhelmed by all of the work and time that it might take to go through those worksheets?

[Joy Laverde]

So you're so right. The reason people don't plan is they're overwhelmed, and they just say, oh, I'm not going to do this. I can't. I don't know where to start. So one of the things that I suggest is people would open the table of contents to either one of the books. Just open the table of contents and look through what you're in the mood for in the moment, and then go to that chapter and just do one thing. That's it. One thing. Put the book away. Accomplish one thing. Keep in mind how good it feels to get one thing done. And then when you're ready, do it again. And pick one thing you're willing to do, like maybe cleaning out a closet. Just one thing that will lighten your load. And after a while, you would get in the habit of, I like the way I felt when I cleaned out the closet. Maybe I'm willing to do another one.

[Amy Arnott]

So kind of getting some small wins and building momentum.

[Joy Laverde]

That's it. That's it. And if you're so inclined, you might also talk to your friends and tell them how you feel. Say, I'm having a hard time. I know I should do this. How about you guys and see if you can help each other?

[Christine Benz]

That's a good idea. So all three of us live in the Chicago area. I'm curious, Joy, what are some of your favorite restaurants or activities in Chicago?

[Joy Laverde]

Well, I'm a fanatic Cub fan, so I'm at Wrigley in this.

Bleachers, though.

[Christine Benz]

Oh, bleachers.

[Joy Laverde]

Woo.

[Christine Benz]

Okay.

[Joy Laverde]

Oh, yeah. Well, actually my husband and I got married at Wrigley Field. That's how crazy we are. Oh, wow. So yeah, we are Cubs fans.

Where do I even begin? With that wonderful, incredible city that we live in. The kayaking on the Chicago river, the walking through the neighborhoods and seeing all the Halloween decorations this time of year. You know, something else that people don't realize that we have, and I hope that I open a door to this one, is we have one of the most incredible area agencies on aging for our senior population, and it's located in the Renaissance center downtown in the old library on Michigan Avenue. And the amount of things that they do there is off the charts. There's so many things to do. So I encourage everybody to go check out the Renaissance center, including we have 12 fitness centers all across the city. So we live an incredible city.

[Amy Arnott]

Yeah, I wasn't even aware of that facility in the Renaissance Center. I'll have to check that out.

[Joy Laverde]

Yeah. Good.

[Amy Arnott]

Thank you so much, Joy, for joining us. It was great talking with you and you've given us both a lot of great ideas to think about as we're thinking about aging.

[Joy Laverde]

I'm so glad and thank you for inviting me to have this conversation. Conversation. I really appreciate it.

[Christine Benz]

Thank you so much, Joy.

[Joy Laverde]

Take care.

[Amy Arnott]

Thank you for joining us on the Long View. If you could please take a moment to subscribe to and rate the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow me on social media.

[Christine Benz]

Amy Arnold on LinkedIn and ristinebenz on X or Christine Benz on LinkedIn.

[Amy Arnott]

George Cassidy is our engineer for the podcast and Cary Gretscheck produces the show notes each week. Finally, we'd love to get your feedback. If you have a comment or a guest idea, please email [e-mail] until next time. Thanks for joining us.

[Disclosure Announcer]

This recording is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice. Opinions expressed are as of the date of recording and are subject to change without notice. The views and opinions of guests on this program are not necessarily those of Morningstar, Inc. And its affiliates, which together we refer to as Morningstar. Morningstar is not affiliated with guests or their business affiliate unless otherwise stated. Morningstar does not guarantee the accuracy or the completeness of the data presented herein. This recording is for informational purposes only and the information, data analysis or opinion it includes or their use should not be considered investment or tax advice and therefore is not an offer to buy or sell a security. Morningstar shall not be responsible for any trading decisions, damages or or other losses resulting from or related to the information, data analyses, or opinions or their use. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. All investments are subject to investment risk, including possible loss of principal. Individuals should seriously consider if an investment is suitable for them by referencing their own financial position, investment objectives, and risk profile. Before making any any investment decision, please consult a tax and or financial professional for advice specific to your individual circumstances.

[Joy Laverde]

Sam.