Rosanne Corcoran: Caring and Support for Family Caregivers

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Long View - Episode: Rosanne Corcoran: Caring and Support for Family Caregivers

Release Date: June 17, 2025

Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of The Long View, hosts Christine Benz and Amy C. Arnott engage in a profound conversation with Roseanne Corcoran, the Director of Content at contentstrategyfordaughterhood.org and host of Daughterhood the Podcast. Roseanne brings her extensive experience as a family caregiver and advocate to discuss the multifaceted challenges faced by family caregivers, especially women, and the resources available to support them.

Genesis and Mission of Daughterhood

Roseanne begins by sharing the inception of Daughterhood, founded by Ann Tomlinson, a veteran in aging, research, and health policy. The organization was created out of the necessity Roseanne observed when a friend struggled with navigating caregiving systems for her mother. Ann realized the dire need for a community that provides resources and support to family caregivers, particularly women who predominantly shoulder this responsibility.

"There's two out of every three caregivers are women... it's almost expected of us." [03:03]

Gender Dynamics in Caregiving

The discussion highlights that approximately 66% of caregivers in the U.S. are female, a statistic Roseanne attributes to societal roles where women are naturally positioned as nurturers. She acknowledges that while men do provide care, the expectation and societal norms often place the caregiving burden on women without adequate support or recognition.

"It's not, hey, you're caregiving. Let's support you. It's, well, of course you're caregiving." [03:03]

Caregiving Among Single Children and Non-Traditional Families

Roseanne observes an increasing trend of single children and individuals without children assuming caregiving roles. She notes that solo caregivers face unique stresses due to the lack of familial support structures.

"We have seen a definite increase in single carers." [04:43]

Additionally, those who are unmarried or childless often bear the brunt of caregiving responsibilities, leading to heightened isolation and compounded challenges in balancing personal and caregiving duties.

"It's very isolating. It's even more isolating for them." [05:57]

Personal Journey and Involvement

Roseanne shares her personal experience caring for her mother, who lived independently until her memory began to decline. This journey led Roseanne to Daughterhood, where she found solace and hope through Ann's honest and validating blogs. Her personal struggles with balancing caregiving and family life fueled her passion to support others in similar situations.

"They validated my feelings. They made me feel less alone." [07:00]

Challenges in Caregiving

The conversation delves into the myriad of responsibilities that fall under caregiving, from daily living activities like bathing and meal prep to managing finances, medications, and medical appointments. Roseanne emphasizes that caregivers are often an essential yet unrecognized part of the healthcare dyad.

"We're not seen as that essential part of this dyad, and we are." [15:00]

Support Systems: Caregiving Circles

Roseanne elaborates on the structure and purpose of caregiving circles organized by Daughterhood. These circles, led by volunteers who are either professionals or fellow caregivers, come in two forms:

1. Connection Circles: Provide a safe space for caregivers to share their struggles without judgment.

2. Topic Circles: Focus on specific issues such as senior living, self-care, dementia-related challenges, and grief.

"They are always free." [13:45]

These circles are pivotal in offering emotional support, reducing isolation, and fostering a sense of community among caregivers.

Financial Struggles and Long-Term Care

A significant portion of the discussion addresses the financial burdens of long-term care. Roseanne explains that saving enough for long-term care is often unfeasible due to exorbitant costs, especially for conditions like dementia.

"Long term care is a huge issue... you could be paying 10 or $12,000 a month." [20:43]

She advises consulting financial advisors to navigate options such as long-term care insurance, veterans' benefits, and state-specific programs, while cautioning about the complexities and limitations of Medicaid.

"Contact an eligible attorney who specializes in Medicaid because there's just too many issues." [23:28]

Caregiver Shortage and Hiring Help

The episode highlights the acute shortage of paid caregivers, exacerbated by high demand and low wages compared to other sectors like fast food. Roseanne discusses strategies for finding reliable help, including utilizing geriatric care managers and leveraging community resources.

"There's nobody to come in to help you, it adds to that isolation and that overwhelm." [25:03]

Impact of Caregiving on Careers

Roseanne touches upon the professional sacrifices caregivers often make, such as turning down promotions or even leaving the workforce, which can have long-term financial and career implications. She critiques the societal lack of support and understanding for working caregivers.

"They can't share what's happening in their lives at work for fear of not being able to work." [29:43]

Emotional and Psychological Toll

The emotional strain of caregiving is a central theme. Roseanne candidly discusses feelings of isolation, guilt, and trauma experienced by caregivers, emphasizing the lack of research and resources dedicated to addressing these psychological impacts.

"There's so many things that goes into it physically. And the emotional support... that's so exhausting." [15:00]

She advocates for personalized self-care strategies and community support to help caregivers manage their mental health.

"You have to find a way to do something that feeds your soul." [33:29]

COVID-19 Pandemic and Caregiving

Reflecting on the COVID-19 pandemic, Roseanne shares the heightened challenges faced during this period, including increased isolation and the strain of providing care without external support. Transitioning to online support circles proved vital in maintaining community connections.

"Having that community that we could meet online and see each other was a savior." [41:59]

Future Planning and Conversations

The importance of preemptive conversations between older adults and their potential caregivers is underscored. Roseanne stresses the need for families to discuss and plan caregiving roles to mitigate future burdens and ensure clear communication.

"They have to work together as a team to have those conversations." [39:57]

Impact of Hosting a Podcast

Hosting Daughterhood the Podcast has deepened Roseanne's understanding of the caregiving journey and its long-term effects. She shares how the podcast serves as a lifeline for many listeners, providing comfort and a sense of solidarity.

"I have people email me and say, you know, I listen to you at night. It helps me to fall asleep." [46:14]

Personal Reflections on Aging and Care

Through her experiences, Roseanne has become more proactive in planning her own aging and care needs. She emphasizes the necessity of having clear directives and conversations to alleviate future caregiving pressures on her children.

"I have my will done... it's important to have these conversations." [49:19]

Conclusion

Roseanne Corcoran's insights shed light on the often-overlooked struggles of family caregivers, particularly women. Her work with Daughterhood and her podcast provides essential support and advocacy, fostering a community where caregivers can find understanding, resources, and hope. The episode serves as a powerful reminder of the emotional, financial, and physical toll of caregiving and the urgent need for broader societal support systems.

Notable Quotes

• "There's two out of every three caregivers are women... it's almost expected of us." – Roseanne Corcoran [03:03]
• "We're not seen as that essential part of this dyad, and we are." – Roseanne Corcoran [15:00]
• "Long term care is a huge issue... you could be paying 10 or $12,000 a month." – Roseanne Corcoran [20:43]
• "You have to find a way to do something that feeds your soul." – Roseanne Corcoran [33:29]
• "I have people email me and say, you know, I listen to you at night. It helps me to fall asleep." – Roseanne Corcoran [46:14]
• "We have to work together as a team to have those conversations." – Roseanne Corcoran [39:57]

Resources Mentioned

• contentstrategyfordaughterhood.org
• aginglifecare.org
• care.com
• Five Wishes and other end-of-life planning tools

Final Thoughts

This episode not only highlights the pressing issues faced by family caregivers but also celebrates the resilience and dedication of those who provide indispensable care. Roseanne Corcoran's advocacy underscores the necessity for comprehensive support systems to ensure that caregivers do not navigate this challenging journey alone.

Transcript

[Schwab Trading]

Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade. Unlocking the power of thinkorswim. The award winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market. Visualize your trades in a new light on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools all while you uncover new opportunities with up to the minute market news and insights. ThinkOrSwim is available on desktop, web and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading please stay tuned for.

[Morningstar Disclosure]

Important disclosure information at the conclusion of this episode.

[Christine Benz]

Hi and welcome to the Longview. I'm Christine Benz, Director of Personal Finance and Retirement Planning for Morningstar.

[Amy Arnott]

And I'm Amy Arnott, Portfolio Strategist for Morningstar.

[Christine Benz]

Our guest on the podcast today is Roseanne Corcoran. Roseanne is the director of content strategyfordaughterhood.org, which is focused on creating community and providing resources to family caregivers. Roseanne also hosts a wonderful podcast called Daughterhood the Podcast. In addition, she facilitates support groups and meetings for caregivers and has experience as a family caregiver herself. Roseanne, welcome to the Longview.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Thanks for having me.

[Christine Benz]

Well, we're excited to have you here. This is an important topic. You are the director of content strategyfordaughterhood.org and you also host a wonderful podcast called Daughterhood the Podcast. But we're hoping we can start by discussing the genesis of and what the organization aims to do.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Sure. You know, Ann Tomlinson created Daughterhood. She's been working in the field of aging and research and health policy for almost 30 years. And she's very familiar with how the different systems we have in this country work and the impact they have on, you know, everybody who has to navigate them. At one point, she had a friend who was taking care of her mother, and she, of course, went to Ann to ask questions. And in the process of Ann giving advice and talking it through with her, she realized what an actual nightmare it is to try to go through these systems when you're a caregiver. So she thought, well, if I can help her, I can help other people. So that was the genesis of daughterhood. And Ann always says, you know, when we're growing up, we have our childhood friends and we get married and we have our, you know, our motherhood friends. And then when you get to be an adult and you're suddenly in this role, it's not like people are getting their Parents together to have a play. D not. You don't have that ability to say, hey, you know, what care company are you using? Or, you know, my mom's not drinking a whole lot. How did you get her to drink? You don't have that. So that's where daughterhood began in that space.

[Amy Arnott]

And before we go any further, why daughterhood specifically, and why does family caregiving so often fall to women in the family or daughters specifically?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

We know, our friends at the national alliance of Caregiving approximate that there's 66% of caregivers in the US are females. So that's two out of every three caregivers are women. And I think it's that natural progression that we have. Right? You know, you have children, you take care of children. You know, you're in a relationship, you're the nurturer. And I know these are broad strokes. I know that we're not downplaying the fact that men provide care. We know that men provide care, but for the most part, primarily it is women, and it's almost expected of us. So it's not, hey, you're caregiving. Let's support you. It's, well, of course you're caregiving. Why wouldn't you be caregiving? So that's where daughterhood comes from.

[Christine Benz]

Would the resources on daughterhood.org also be relevant to men who are involved with caregiving? And do you have male listeners to your podcast, for example?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, caregiving knows no boundaries. So whether you're a man, you're a woman, you know, spouses, we have spouses that come to our groups. We have had a few men that have come to our groups. They are absolutely open to men to use our resources. Yes.

[Christine Benz]

I wanted to ask about how single children and people without kids seem to often be the ones who are called into caregiving in families. Has that been your experience, and have you seen any data to support that? Anecdotally, it seems to be the case, but I'm curious what you hear and see.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

So I'm also a daughterhood circle leader, so I have the privilege of speaking with family caregivers all month long. And we have seen an increase in solo caregivers in only children. And it's a different type of stress because they don't have anybody to lean on. Not to say that caregivers that have siblings have that support either, but they are truly, they don't have anybody to bounce ideas off of, you know, those types of things. And that's why when they come to our circles, they find it so helpful because there's actually other people they can discuss these things with. I don't know if it's because people didn't have as many children as they used to have. I mean, my mother came from. She was one of 12. I mean, you know, as we've gone through the, through the ages here, people have had less and less children. So I don't know if it's that, but we have seen a definite increase in single carers. Yes.

[Christine Benz]

Relatedly, Roseanne, how about people who are not married and people who don't have kids? Do they tend to be the ones who are shouldering a lot of the burden of caregiving within their families?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

They are as well. Yes. Yeah. Because it's just them. And we find a lot of them obviously move in with their parents to care for them, and then that creates a whole nother level of issues for them because have they left their jobs to care for their parents? And then they're living with their parents. They don't have much of a social life, let alone other relationships. So it's very isolating. It's even more isolating for them.

[Amy Arnott]

It sounds like you had some personal experience with providing care for your mom. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you got involved in the organization and what your background was?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Sure. I was caring for my mom. My mom was living independently right around the time she turned 80. She thought that her memory was changing and she was still living independently. So I was supporting her while she was living independently. She lived 20 minutes from me. I would go down. I would see her daily. I would call her four or five times. She was still working, actually. She was a hairdresser, and she worked till she was 83, believe it or not. Yeah. So I was very involved with my mother about seven years of providing that type of support, it was evident she couldn't live alone. And we moved her in to my house with my husband and my two young children. And one night I was on the Internet looking for information, desperately looking for information, and I came upon one of Ann's blogs. And it was so real and it was so honest. I thought, well, this woman understands what I'm going through here, you know? And at that time, it was 2018. At that time, I'm sorry, it was 2015. But at that time, daughterhood didn't have a circle in my area. And I thought, boy, if I could ever have someone come in and give me some relief, I would start a daughterhood circle in my area. But in the Meantime, I would read her blog, and I kept reading her blogs, and they validated my feelings. They made me feel less alone. And really importantly, they gave me a little bit of hope, which is what I really needed, because I had no idea how this was going to change. I had just spent all that time running back and forth and managing and then having my mom in my house thinking, okay, well, this will be easier because she's in my house. And while it was easier, it was not easier because it was a whole different set of circumstances. You know, our whole family dynamic changed. And while it was better because I was actually home, I still wasn't involved. It was very hard to try to manage caring for my mom and still being involved with my family. And that's one of the things in caregiving that makes it so difficult because you always feel like somebody's losing out.

[Christine Benz]

We want to delve into some of those challenges, Rosanne, and specifically the aspect of helping care for someone with dementia. But before we do that, I just wanted you to reflect on something that Howard Gleckman said to me. He is someone who focuses on long term care policy and went through his own long term care experience with his parents. He made the observation that when we go through a caregiving experience, we're often kind of spent at the end and possibly traumatized a little bit.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Absolutely.

[Christine Benz]

And we just want to kind of put it behind us and move on. And we don't do anything to document our experiences or try to make things better for the ones who come behind us. Can you talk about that? Does that ring true for you?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

So, yes and no. I have seen, you know, there's a lot of people that when their caregiving journey ends, they're done. They don't want to talk about it, they don't want to think about it. They just want to move forward with their lives. And I completely get that. But then there's those of us that stay in the space. And I mean, I have, you know, my friends will say to me all the time, are you done with this? Like, aren't you done with this? Don't you want to? And I'm like, nah, no, I'm not. I'm not. And I think, you know, honestly, I think it's because I know how I felt, and I adored my mother, and I would have done anything and did do anything for her. And I still felt isolated and terrified and guilty that I wasn't doing enough when I clearly was doing enough. But that's not how you feel. And I tried to manage it all. And to think, you know, to be able to say to another caregiver, I get it, I see you and you are doing a good job. And to be able to walk with them through their caregiving journey is an honor, quite honestly. And so I get both sides of this. And I see it in our groups, in our circles where sometimes people, you know, their care partner will die and then they'll still stay on with us either in a grief group or in our after caregiving group. But there are others that are like, nope, done, don't want the newsletter anymore. I'm not doing any of this. So I think it really just depends on how that sits with you and where you want to go with that. And I know that's not a direct answer, but I've really seen both sides of that.

[Christine Benz]

No, that's helpful.

[Amy Arnott]

So I wanted to follow up on the caregiving circles that you have. Can you discuss how those work and the type of topics that you discuss and how you use the circles to provide caregivers with support?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Sure. So all of our circles are led by volunteers who are professionals or advocates or were caregivers or are caregivers. And we have two different types, connection and topic. Our connection circles really provide the space for people to come in and just be where they are, you know, share what they're dealing with, ask questions if they're struggling with something and need help, or just be with other caregivers who understand and they know they're not gonna be judged. They know nobody is gonna say anything. You know, when caregivers come in and they say things like, you know, I can't stand my mother and I don't know how I'm gonna do this. Nobody goes, oh, I can't believe you said such a thing. No, it's like, yeah, we get it, we get it. Or I don't know how I'm going to finish this out and I don't know where to look and I don't, you know, those types of things. It's comfortable and it's safe. And we have multiple, you know, connection circles through the month. We also have topic circles during the month which are just that. They're specific topics where, whether, you know, it's unpacking, senior living, or we have self care circles, we have guilt and shame circle, we have our dementia topic circles where one month the topic could be dealing with, you know, how do you deal with hallucinations? And the next month it could be how do you deal with incontinence? We have a caregivers of color circle. We also have three grief circles a month, because grief is the thread that runs through caregiving that no one talks about. And it doesn't matter if it's the beginning of your journey or the end. It's not just when your person dies. It's anticipatory grief. It's the grief you feel over your relationship with your parent that's changing. It's the grief you feel over your life changing. I mean, it's everywhere. And then we also have an aftercare circle because no one really realized, you know, when your caregiving ends, you have all of these feelings. You know, who am I now? What's my purpose? What am I supposed to do now? And we added that in this year because it's important and it just doesn't, you know, a lot of people think, okay, well, it's done. You can go back to your life. And it's like, no, I can't go back to my life. My life doesn't look like it did when I started caregiving. It's completely different now, and I'm completely different, and I have to find a way forward. And, you know, we try to help in that. And anybody can join at any time, whenever they want for as many circles as you'd like. They're always free.

[Christine Benz]

That's great. Would you say that the resources are there mainly for the unpaid family caregivers rather than people who are delivering care on a paid basis?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yes, we are focused on family caregivers. Yes.

[Christine Benz]

Okay. So I'm hoping you can discuss what falls under the umbrella of caregiving and what types of services we're talking about people providing.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Sure. You know, it depends. It depends on what your care partner, you know, what disease or condition they have. Family caregivers run the gamut for, you know, caring for somebody with illnesses like dementia or Parkinson's to, you know, someone with COPD or cancer, but, you know, assisting with activities of daily living, which are basic, you know, bathing, dressing, grooming, eating, helping with mobility, transferring, helping someone to the bathroom, providing companionship, emotional support, meal prep, grocery shopping. I mean, it runs the gamut, right? Managing finances, medication, doctor's appointments, transportation to doctor's appointments or wherever else, housework, errands. I mean, there's so much that goes into it physically. And then you have the communication with doctors and the medical professionals, which then leads to making sure that your care partner adheres to the treatment plans that are in place and that they take their medication and you manage the prescriptions, which is a job in and of itself, along with insurance. And then the other part that's kind of not seen is that, you know, you're making important decisions on behalf of your care partner, which may or may not be easy for you, depending on if you had those what's important to you conversations before all of this happened. And especially with dementia, if you haven't had those conversations, and even if you did with dementia, it's hard because you are in full control here, and you have to make the best decision with the information that you have. And even though you might know that you are, there's always that layer of, I don't know, is this what I should be doing? And because you can't talk it through, it makes it even harder. And then, of course, you're providing the emotional support and encouragement and being there to listen to your care partner. I mean, you're in this together. And the part that gets lost a lot of the time, which is what makes it hard for caregivers, is that we're not seen as that essential part of this dyad, and we are. Without us, you know, aside from holding up the healthcare system without us, our person can't get all of this done, and that's what we're providing. So there's more than just the practical that goes with all of this, which is also why it's so exhausting. But that's the part that kind of gets, you know, washed over.

[Amy Arnott]

So I haven't been through this experience myself, but what about people who are indirect caregivers where maybe they're not directly assisting their parents or other relatives with activities of daily living, but they're kind of overseeing other caregivers? I would imagine that could be stressful as well.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Overseeing other caregivers is one of the most stressful parts of caregiving, trying to keep them all. Because you're the manager, right? You're the care manager at that point, so you're in charge. Who's coming in? What's happening? Who Are they doing the job that you hired them for? Are they getting along with the person that they're here to take care of all of that? You know, are they coming next week? What happens if they don't come? Did they show up? Did they not show up? All of that goes into it. So, yes. Whether you're, you know, physically there or overseeing something. Yes, of course. And even if you're. Even if you're dropping groceries off. Yeah. You're caregiving in my book.

[Christine Benz]

So this was my role in my family, and I felt like it was something that my parents had kind of ignored in their plan, frankly, where they had the funds to cover long term care to be provided in their home. But it was sort of like they hadn't addressed the fact that there would be all these things needed to keep the household running while the caregivers were there delivering the care, like the groceries or like the person to meet with the roofing contractor or whatever. You know, just it seemed like all the time there were obligations related to managing this other household. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts for families where that is the plan to have in home care? How can they ensure that things happen smoothly, that expectations get communicated and so forth to the family about what it will take to keep the caregiving happening at home?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Christine, that's a heck of a. That's a heck of a question. It's hard and you have to be very organized and you have to know what you want, but you also have to manage your expectation with what you're putting out there. There will be times when things don't go according to plan, and that's okay. So you have to be flexible in the midst of all of this. But it's hard to be flexible when you're counting on other people to provide this career. So going into it, you know, I've had many people in our circles who, and I've done it myself. When you have somebody coming in, the best thing to do is to provide them with a list of things. So, for instance, I made a binder. So when I had a caregiver come in, I had a binder of all of the television channels, the shows that my mother liked. The fact that you have to keep the fan on in her room because if she gets overheated, she's gonna pass out. So like those types of things. She likes her coffee like this way. You know, the remote for the fan, it's kind of funky sometimes. So you have to like things down to that detail so that everything is taken care of. And you know, that falls on the caregiver. And while it's a pain to put all of that together, once you have it, that's your binder. So when it doesn't matter if you have a different caregiver that comes to your house every day, you still have that same set. Here you go. So you don't have to stand at the front door and say, so here's the thing. So mom likes this channel and she. You don't have to do that. So it helps to be prepared in that way. And to have a plan, but it takes a lot of energy and it takes a lot of time from the caregiver.

[Amy Arnott]

So we know that you're not a financial specialist, but are there any best practices in terms of financially covering long term care or does that really depend on the family's individual situation and net worth?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, it absolutely does. I am not a financial person, but we know that long term care is a huge issue and I don't think it's possible to save enough money for long term care. You know, you're looking at monthly prices that are more than anyone has paid for their monthly mortgages. And especially if you have dementia, depending on where you live, you could be paying 10 or $12,000 a month, you know, conservatively. So you wind up playing that horrible math game. You know, how much do we have? How long do I think they're gonna live and how much is this care gonna cost? So the long term care industry, unfortunately, you know, I've had people who have really benefited from their parents taking out their long term care coverage years ago. And then there are others who, you know, the company was acquired by somebody else and there is no money. There's lots of resources out there that may help. Veterans benefits, reverse mortgages. I don't know any of the particulars, but to sit with a financial advisor would be my best advice. You know, we know that there are some states right now, there's 12 states that are, that are trying to figure out how they can provide a long term care benefit. I don't know how that's going to look in the coming years, but at least someone's thinking about it and they're paying attention to it, which is a plus. But a financial advisor is the way to go, definitely.

[Christine Benz]

There's also widespread confusion about what Medicare covers in the context of people who need long term care. And the short answer is that it doesn't really cover long term care. Right. I feel like there's so much confusion about this.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

No. Well, because people get Medicare and Medicaid.

[Christine Benz]

Confused and people also get the rehab type care confused with long term care. In my experience, that's exactly right. I think that mixes people up too. But maybe you can talk about those things.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Well, yeah, because Medicare will cover a rehab stay that happens in a skilled nursing facility after a hospital stay, after a three day hospital stay. And they will cover it for up to 100 days. But of course, after 20 days patients are partially responsible. Again, there's a lot of things that go with it, but they do not cover Long term care. They cover some durable medical equipment, but not the actual care. That's where Medicaid comes in. And unfortunately people interchange them and they're not interchangeable. So yes to your question. No, they do not pay.

[Amy Arnott]

Can you talk a little bit about some of the limitations of Medicaid for long term care and what are some of the things people need to know there?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Sure. So you know, every state has their own requirements, so you have to meet specific income, asset and functional needs. And each state sets up their own system. So there's a five year look back also that goes into this. So the days, you know, we've all heard about the people that, you know, gave away their money so they could qualify for Medicaid. I don't know if that's accurate, but there is a five year look back now. So it's very difficult and even that changes. Some states have a longer look back, so it's very hard to try to skirt that. But Medicaid coverage options are also managed by each state. There's different programs that they have. There's a PACE program for dual eligible people, meaning they have Medicare and Medicaid combined. But again, there's certain requirements that you need to meet for that. When it comes to Medicaid planning, the best thing to do is to contact an eligible attorney who specializes in Medicaid because there's just too many issues and there's too many things to try to keep up with and things change quickly. There's also, you don't know how many people are waiting to be in that eligibility list. There could be hundreds of thousands of people in front of you.

[Christine Benz]

So in addition to the financial challenges of long term care, my understanding is that there's a shortage in caregivers available, especially to provide in home care.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yes.

[Christine Benz]

And even if someone has the financial wherewithal to pay those caregivers out of pocket, they may have trouble finding them. Can you discuss that dimension, why that's happening, why we do have that shortage?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, there's just such a high demand for long term care. I mean, the demand is there, it's hard work, it's expensive. And you know, a lot of these caregivers could make more money at McDonald's than they do being paid caregivers. I mean, that's the reality. So it's very hard to find them. And that's where we're at. You know, Covid exacerbated all of it, but, but we are well past that time now. It's very hard. And then it's hard with caregivers to when you finally admit that you do need help to then say, okay, I'm going to have somebody come in. And then you call the agency and it's, you know, I mean it could be $40 an hour with a four hour minimum. So that's if you brought somebody in five days a week, it's $800 a week. And to look at that and think, wait, I can't pay that money. Even though it's helpful to the caregiver on so many levels, they can't. It's almost untenable. So there's so much that goes into that and then the fact that there's nobody to come in to help you, it adds to that isolation and that overwhelm the caregivers feel.

[Schwab Trading]

Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, unlocking the power of thinkorswim, the award winning trading platform switch loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market. Visualize your trades in a new light on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools all while you uncover new opportunities with up to the minute market news and insights. ThinkOrSwim is available on desktop, web and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading if you are looking.

[Amy Arnott]

For a caregiver, can you talk about some of the agencies and geriatric care managers that you might be able to get in touch with to help you find someone to fill that role?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, I mean the aging life care managers, their website is a great resource. It's aginglifecare.org it's filled with resources and they have a locator so you can find an aging life care manager in your area. They're great because they come in and they can give you an overview of what your parents need. They can also be the bad guy for you instead of you saying, you know mom, you really need bars to go up the steps. They can come in so you don't have to play that role. I know there are people that use the online platforms to try to find somebody care.com, but you always have to check and double check when you're not using an agency. I always tell people if you live near a teaching hospital or a nursing college to check with them and see if there's any nurses that are looking for hours for their coursework or if they're looking for some companion care work. Because sometimes they are and you know you always ask your friends and relatives because it doesn't take you too many questions to get to somebody who's a caregiver or know somebody who's a caregiver. And if they had used somebody or they used an agency that they liked, it's really hard with the agencies because of the shortage these workers have. Really, people want them so they can move from agency to agency. So it's hard if you had somebody that you really liked and now they left that agency and went somewhere else. And it's hard also with, you know, trusting that they're trained in what you need them to be trained in. So it's really been a challenge. And it's again, it's wearing on the family caregiver because they don't have that break because they can't get the break. Even if they wanted it, they can't get it.

[Christine Benz]

Amy mentioned geriatric care managers. Is that the same as the aging care specialist?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Aging life care.

[Christine Benz]

Aging life care, yes. Same thing.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yes.

[Christine Benz]

Okay.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yes, they change to aging life care managers.

[Christine Benz]

Okay. And I'm sure it varies a lot by geography, but if I'm hiring that sort of person, is there a ballpark of how much I would expect to pay for that engagement, for an evaluation of my parent, and sort of recommendations about steps we should take?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

It does depend on what area you're in. It could be $150 an hour. It could be $250 an hour. It depends. It is money well spent. Of all the things that you can do, it is definitely money well spent.

[Amy Arnott]

We also wanted to talk about some of the financial impacts that family caregivers often experience. And it sounds like a lot of people in this caregiving role might experience a career setback or even job loss.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Mm, yes, there's lots of different reports. You know, AARP had a report at the National Caregiver alliance about working in family caregivers. And we know that, you know, most caregivers, the quote is that they spend at least 20 hours of care a week, which is equal to a part time job. I would argue that that number is actually probably higher. But okay. So we also know that when you're working and providing this care with another part time job, which would be caregiving, it affects you, it has to affect you. And we also know that people turn down promotions, they turn down travel, they move from full time to part time. Some people take an early retirement and some just flat out quit because they just can't do it. They can't keep up with it there was also, I saw a report that said that employers are more sympathetic to family caregivers who care for children than for the ones that care for adults. And I found that really interesting because it's such a different perspective. And I've heard that from people in our circles where, you know, nobody wants to say, I take care of my mother at work, because they're gonna look at you differently. They're not gonna get the assignments or you're not gonna get, you know, on this team or that team because we can't count on you. So that's another thing. And that's another burden that working caregivers carry is that they can't share what's happening in their lives at work for fear of not being able to work. And it's just, it's a really hard cycle to try to navigate.

[Christine Benz]

In my book, Jean Chatky makes a strenuous argument against women leaving the workforce to care for elderly parents. She points out that it can be terribly hard to get back in if you separate from your job when you're in your 50s or early 60s or something, something like that. And she makes the point that even if paying these caregivers takes almost everything that you make, it's still probably a good trade. Do you agree with that or are there practical challenges to that that someone would face?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, definitely practical challenges. I understand what she's saying because I don't know how you leave the workforce and then try to get back into it at that point. But. But again, the thing that happens with caregiving is it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's exhausting. And especially if you're caring for somebody with dementia, it's doubly exhausting if they're up all night, because sleep is not something that comes to dementia caregivers a lot. And it's. While I understand what she's saying and I appreciate that because we know you leave the workforce, you don't have Social Security contributions, what are you doing for your health insurance? There's so many things that go with it. I just don't know how you keep that schedule up. Because when you come home, that part time job that you have that they consider caregiving, the 20 hours a week is not predictable. It's not like you can come home and say, I'm going to just do this and then I'm going to be able to do some work or I'm going to be able to relax or I'm going to be able to go to bed. You don't know, and there's a lot of variables that go with this, so maybe, but I don't know if I agree with that advice.

[Amy Arnott]

So how can people kind of deal with the physical, emotional and psychological toll that caregiving can take? You know, we hear a lot about self care, but it seems like maybe that might be a band aid. And if you're in kind of in the trenches with providing care 247 or, you know, worrying about your loved ones.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yes. You know, it's almost like self care is weaponized. And when I would hear somebody say, you know, you have to take care of yourself, like, yeah, I know. Any ideas? I don't have a thought here. Do you have something. Would you. Is there something you're seeing that I'm not? Because it's almost impossible. But the reality of the situation is that you have to. Because you have to find a way to do something that feeds your soul. And it's very personal. It's a very personal thing because I don't know what would work for you versus what would work for me. You know, we hear all the time, you have to get outside, you have to breathe, you have to, you know, if meditation's your thing, great. I used to listen to audiobooks, you know, when you go through that routine of your day as a dementia caregiver. When we got to the 7 o' clock hour and it was, you know, in my world, it was Jeopardy. And Wheel of Fortune. I couldn't stand the sound of that wheel one more minute. I just couldn't do it. And I would listen to books and I would put my airpods in and my hair would cover my ears. So I was sitting there, but my mother couldn't see that I wasn't listening to Wheel of Fortune. I couldn't do it. And that helped me. So that's what I mean by. It's whatever works for you in those moments. I also know, you know, it's hard when you, when somebody is drowning and stressed out to say, just take a breath. I can't take a breath. My shoulders are up by my ears and I can't get a breath. And that's a hard position to be in. And when you're in that position, you can't see anything but that you can't see. Well, I can do this for myself. And sometimes it comes down to something as basic as look for something in your room. Can you name three things in your room to bring you into that moment? Because we dissociate from ourselves also because it's so much and we don't know how to deal with all of this and how this is gonna go and what's tomorrow gonna be like and what about next week? You know, we get caught in all of that. It takes a lot. And, you know, when my mother died, her. It was just her four year anniversary of when she died. It completely broke me, physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. It broke me. And the whole time during caregiving, I thought, well, I'll worry about it later. You know, my back's killing me, my, my feet hurt, I don't sleep, you know, all of that. But it was almost like I'm going to put it on a shelf and get back to it. And I will tell you, it's not a good move because, you know, you have to answer for that. And if you can find these ways during your caregiving to have that little bit of a respite for yourself. And it's hard, like we just said, it's hard trying to find caregivers. It's hard trying to find somebody to come in. And the guilt that we all feel of having that person come in so that we can care for ourselves, we have to put that somewhere and be able to take that moment for ourselves so that we're not so exhausted and broken when it's over, because it will end. And you have to survive this. And not just survive, but you have to be in that position of, okay, now I can take care of myself, but you still have to find those ways during that time in whatever way works for you that's not detrimental to your health. Like, you know, drink 14 beers at night or something. You don't want to do that. Something that's productive that can help you.

[Christine Benz]

In one of your podcasts, you discussed that caregivers often experience a form of trauma. You already mentioned grief as an aspect of this, but can you talk about trauma?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah. I don't think there's a caregiver that comes out of caregiving without some sort of trauma, without experiencing something, either through the process of whatever disease or condition your care partner has, or the end of life process that no one prepares you for, that you're not prepared for and that you come out of and second guess yourself. So there's so many things, you know, I had sensors for my mom. I had a motion sensor in her room, and I had a sensor mat so that when she got out of bed, she would step on it and the alarm would go off in my room. And again, it just, this year was the first time that I could enter A store without that bing bong that would set me off. It made my heart jump. It made my body jump. It was awful because that was my experience every night, where if I fell asleep and she got up, that's what startled me. That's what woke me up. The problem is we don't have a lot of research on trauma in family caregivers. We have it in paid caregivers, but we don't have a lot of it with family caregivers because it's not. I don't know if it's not thought about. I don't know, but it's real. And again, in our circles, when somebody talks about it and you say, you know, it's trauma, it's ptsd, they're like, oh, yeah, that's what it is. I mean, it makes perfect sense, but it's like, what do we do now? And how do we deal with this? And again, it's trying to get back into you. You have to calm your system down, because we've all been so, you know, it's like being electrified almost. You're in that constant state of, what do I do? What do I need to do? What's next, what's happening, all of that. And it's real.

[Amy Arnott]

Yeah. I can imagine that people would sort of be in a constant state of hypervigilance.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Every day.

[Amy Arnott]

If there are older adults who are planning ahead and know that they want to rely on a family caregiver, are there things that they can do to sort of be preemptive to ensure that the child who handles most of the caregiving doesn't face a disproportionate impact?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Hmm. When it comes to the parents and the child, they can work together as a team to have those conversations. And they're not easy conversations. They're the conversations of, you know, I want to help you live as long and as well as you can, but we have to talk about these things. And sometimes, you know, parents can be very guarded, especially with financial information, and it's hard to broach that. And then if you have other children involved, it's very hard. And then it becomes, you know, who's going to be in charge and how's that going to look? That's the challenge here. And you have to work together as a team. And if you don't have that, you're left with, I don't know where anything is. I don't know what they want. My mother would say to me, oh, you know what I want? And I'd be Like, okay, mom, thanks. And fortunately, I had an inkling, but I hear that story more often than not, or, I'm not gonna talk about this because I don't wanna talk about it. And that's it. And they dig their heels in. So it's a continual conversation of, I want to help you. How can we make this? What can we do to plan this? What can we do to support you? And it has to be in a non confrontational way and it has to kind of happen a lot. Like, you can't just say, okay, well, I tried this two months ago and they shut me down. Okay, you have to go back to the well and say, can we try this again? We really should talk about this. We really need to talk about this because I want to help you, but it's very hard, but it can be done in a supportive environment.

[Christine Benz]

Earlier, you referenced Roseanne, the COVID period, about how it was a particularly difficult time for caregivers and caregiving. You were working on the podcast at that time and on daughterhood.org can you discuss that experience and what you learned from working with people who are providing care during that period?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, that was talk about trauma. That was a lot. So I had. My mom was at my house, and I was fortunate that there was a home care doctor's service. So I had doctors coming to my house so she didn't have to go to the doctor's office. We had phlebotomists coming. You know, you could even get an ultrasound. I was very fortunate. So they would continue to come and they would come in like, you know, in their space suits, which was great, but everything else. And then in December, my mother actually went on hospice and they had no services during that time. So it was really a challenge. Obviously, I didn't have any caregivers. It was just me. And, you know, as much as I'm a really fun person, but after a few months, my mother was like, is there nobody else coming here? I was like, no, mom, it's just us. Just you and me. So it was hard. And just, you know, my siblings would come and they would be on the front lawn and she would look at them through the window and she'd say, can't they come in? No, they can't come in. And, you know, we pivoted from in person circles to online circles at that time. And it really saved all of us because we were still able to see each other and say, what are you doing in here? Like, how are you making it through this? And we were all, you Know, we were horrified because we were stuck and we were like, forgotten because remember in like, you know, September, October, people were going out. Even by the summer, people were going out and we were like, oh, I can't go out. The fear that I had of leaving my house and then coming back in to potentially bring something back to my mother, even though I was wearing a mask and running through stores to get things and come back, it was a big fear. And I thought that guilt, if I would have brought something home, I don't know how I would have lived with myself. And, you know, I had two kids that were in school, I had a husband that traveled. Like, there was a lot happening in my own life and it was being mirrored to me through our circles. We were all trying to figure out how we were going to survive this. And there was a point where I didn't think I was, quite honestly, because at that point in December, my mother started to be up all night. She would go three or four days straight without going to bed, which meant I was up for three or four days straight. And it was. I know it was because of the isolation. I know it was because of all of the different changes. But what do you, you know, what do you do with that? And that's where we all were at that time. Like, what do we do? And the fact that we still had a community that we could meet online and see each other was a savior, but everything else was just. It was the worst experience. I actually said to my husband at one point, if I die, just hire somebody to come in because I don't know what else we're going to do here. That's where I was during COVID.

[Christine Benz]

Have.

[Amy Arnott]

You had discussions about starting the in person caregiving circles back up now that we're sort of in the post Covid era, Or do you find that the online format is working pretty well?

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Yeah, you know, we have not, because we realized we were able to reach more people and to be able to jump on and jump off, like, especially if you're caring for somebody in your house, to be able to speak online and then be like, oh, I'll be right back, back, and you can leave and go take care of what you need to take care of and then come back. It's been really wonderful in that regard. And we can reach everybody across the country because it's not just having X amount of circles in different cities now, it's nationwide. And it's just easy. We meet on Zoom. Everybody knows how to use Zoom now after Covid. So no, this is where we are.

[Christine Benz]

I wanted to ask about the podcast. Whether you have any favorite episodes and whether you've heard from listeners about episodes that they really enjoyed.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

I have. You know, it's funny because when I started the circles, when I started the circle in my area, after a few times of meeting, it was like we were all talking about the same thing and wondering why we weren't, you know, why wasn't anybody talking about these feelings and what went with caregiving. And that's why I started the podcast. And I thought if I could get one out a month, even with caring for my mom. And that was the genesis of it. So to think that people are actually listening to it, and I know that they are, but even when they reach out to me, I'm like, really? You listen? Like, you know, it's still that, wow, okay, that's really cool. And I've had people email me and say, you know, I listen to you at night. It helps me to fall asleep. It keeps me company. If I'm anxious, I'll listen to it so that, you know, they feel like they're not alone. And that means, I mean, I can't tell you what it means to me because I know what that feeling is and I know how important it is to have at least a touchstone to go, okay, I can do this, I can make it. So that's just, you know, it's beyond anything I could have ever thought about. But, you know, I've been so fortunate to talk to so many people. Dr. Jessica Zitter, I've had on a couple of times. She actually helped me with my mom in the later stages there of hospice before her death. I spoke with Judy Cornish about dementia behaviors and Barbara Carnes about hospice. I mean, Barbara Corns, how could you not love Barbara Corns? Allison Applebaum and P.K. bevel. And you know, during COVID Lisa Gibbons has Lisa's care connection. And she had offered a journaling group. And I journaled the entire time my mother was with us. I journaled every single night. I wrote down how I felt, what happened that day. It was almost a way of dealing with what was happening without having to leave my house. And I've never looked at them, but I have every single day. So Liza offered this journaling class and I asked her to be on the podcast and she agreed. Which to, you know, pop culture me, 13 year old me watching Entertainment Tonight was beyond. So that was great. And, you know, I'm very fortunate because we have bonus episodes with Amy. We do policy episodes. So to have Howard Gleckman on and talk about policy every year is just a dream for me. And, you know, it's so interesting to speak to people because they're so forthcoming and they want to share their expertise to help other caregivers. And I think that goes all the way back to the, you know, do people leave after they're done caregiving or do they continue on? I think there are those people that just are like, yep, whatever you need. And that's really big. I think it's really cool when people put themselves out there like that.

[Amy Arnott]

We also wanted to ask how working on the podcast has changed your own attitudes toward aging and receiving care, if you should ever need it.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Well, I have my will done, if that's what you're asking. And my powers of attorney are in place so that it's opened my eyes to these are the conversations you have to have. We might not like them, we don't have to enjoy them, but we have to do them because I don't want my children to be scrambling. And I also don't know if I'd want my children to take care of me. Isn't that interesting? Because of everything that goes into it. And I say that, but I don't know what the future will hold. I have no idea. But I will definitely. They will know what my wishes are. They will know the lines in the sand, if you will, of when it's enough and not to have guilt and how I don't want them to have any guilt over what they do, those types of things. It's that undercurrent of caregiving that we're all left with the guilt and the overwhelm and those feelings of did I do enough? So I have a completely different perspective. And I tell everybody in my life and anybody that I speak to have these conversations. There's plenty of ways and organizations. There's five wishes. There's all of these things now that you can fill out that can help you, that can prompt you, that can help you think about what you want. And to say I want water and antibiotics is not enough. Like, you have to have these conversations with your people. As uncomfortable as it is, you have to do it for them and for you.

[Christine Benz]

Well, Roseanne, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for being with us today to share your insights.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Oh, my goodness. Thank you for having me. It's been a true pleasure. I can't thank you enough.

[Amy Arnott]

Thanks again, Roseanne.

[Christine Benz]

Thank you for joining us on the long view. If you could Please take a moment to subscribe to and rate the podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow me on social media, hristinebenz on X, orristinebenz on LinkedIn and.

[Amy Arnott]

Emyarnot on George Cassidy is our engineer.

[Christine Benz]

For the podcast and Cary Gretchik produces the Show Notes each week. Finally, we'd love to get your feedback. If you have a comment or a guest idea, please email [e-mail] until next time. Thanks for joining us.

[Morningstar Disclosure]

This recording is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice. Opinions expressed are as of the date of recording and are subject to change without notice. The views and opinions of guests on this program are not necessarily those of Morningstar, Inc. And its affiliates, which together we refer to as Morningstar. Morningstar is not affiliated with guests or their business affiliates. Unless otherwise stated. Morningstar does not guarantee the accuracy or the completeness of the data presented herein. This recording is for any informational purposes only and the information, data analysis or opinion it includes or their use should not be considered investment or tax advice and therefore is not an offer to buy or sell a security. Morningstar shall not be responsible for any trading decisions, damages or other losses resulting from or related to the information, data analyses or opinions for their use, as performance is not a guarantee of future results. All investments are subject to investment risk, including possible loss of principal. Individuals should seriously consider if an investment is suitable for them by referencing their own financial position, investment objectives and risk profile before making any investment decision. Please consult a tax and or financial professional for advice specific to your individual circumstances.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

SA.

[Morningstar Disclosure]

Advisors and financial experts this one's for you.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Registration is now open for the Morningstar.

[Morningstar Disclosure]

Investment Conference on June 25th and 26th.

[Roseanne Corcoran]

Join thousands of your peers in Chicago for two days packed with cutting edge research, expert insights and thorough analysis. Advisors can even attend for free and earn CE credits. Learn more about the MIC [e-mail] events MIC.