From Wine Night to Patent: Michael Fors and the Story Behind Liquid Jazz

Summary

Liftoff with Keith: Conversations with Super Founders and Growth Experts

Episode: From Wine Night to Patent: Michael Fors and the Story Behind Liquid Jazz

Date: May 5, 2026
Host: Keith Newman
Guest: Michael Fors, Inventor & Founder, Liquid Jazz

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the unhurried, organic journey of Michael Fors, who took a Thursday night wine tradition and transformed it—over years of community, tinkering, and inspiration—into Liquid Jazz, a patented wine decanting and aeration device. Host Keith Newman and Michael explore the realities of innovation, entrepreneurship, respecting craft traditions, and fostering connection—both at the wine table and in business. The conversation is as much about invention as it is about how meaningful products are shaped by community, culture, and a touch of serendipity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origin Story: Thursday Night Wine Tradition

• No business plan, just friends: Michael’s journey began accidentally, joining friends to make wine—a process rich in ritual and storytelling.
• Learning by doing: He started from scratch, guided by Tony and Mr. Staffieri, learning the tradition of home winemaking brought from Italy.
• Trial and error: Early mistakes (like attracting “a billion fruit flies” [03:02]) led to memorable lessons and laughter, reinforcing that creating something worthwhile often starts with problems.
• Community roots: What started as one wine night became a 26-year Thursday night tradition—solidifying the idea that innovation and connection go hand-in-hand. “Imagine that...we’re in our 26th year of meeting on Thursday nights.” (05:03)

2. Finding a Problem Worth Solving

• Founder problem hypothesis: Keith proposes that founders often address problems they themselves experience. Michael agrees, describing how inconsistent wine aeration inspired him:
  “I would open a couple bottles...let them breathe...Then a car would pull in...and I had to go get another bottle. It was the same wine, but it didn’t taste the same because it didn’t have that time.” (06:18)
• Respect for tradition: An early mentor’s advice about respecting the wine inspired Michael’s focus on a gentle approach:
  “If you don’t respect the wine, don’t make it.” —Mr. Staffieri [08:03]

3. Inspiration Strikes: Nature and Invention

• From rocky coast to river ice: Michael’s eureka moments came from observations in nature—wave action on rocks and water over river stones—which inspired the gentle, “rocking” motion for his decanter.
  “If I can have a gentle way to do the wine...like the ocean did...just splash, splash. And it opened up the ocean.” (09:27)
• The prototype phase: He built a basic U-shaped prototype from food grade stainless at minimal cost—“I had $25 into it just to prove that it worked.” (27:04)

4. The Jump to Business and Patenting

• From idea to action: Encouraged by community feedback, Michael retired and decided to pursue the idea—finding a “launch company” for design iteration and later seeking a patent.
• The patent process: Michael worked with a former jet engine patent attorney who embraced the fun and difference of the project. Notably, he points out for inventors:
  “If you’re over 65, you get a 40% discount [on patent fees], and you get expedited.” (13:57)

5. The Liquid Jazz Experience

• How it works: Michael demonstrates (around [14:35]) how he decants wine using the Liquid Jazz device, emphasizing gentle motion (rocking for about four minutes) and the sensory transformation experienced.
• Before and after: He encourages pouring a sample pre-decant for side-by-side tasting:
  “Unless you really see the taste, the difference...” (15:46)
• Brand story: The Liquid Jazz name arose from a family party when homemade wine inspired a saxophone jazz session—
  “One of the guys in the back says, ‘we get into the liquid jazz.’...Our logo is a saxophone pouring notes into a glass of wine.” (18:48)

6. Go-to-Market Realities: Restaurants vs. Home Hosts

• Consumer adoption: Home enthusiasts (“home hosts”) embrace it faster than restaurants. “The straight-to-the-consumer, the homeowner one, they seem to appreciate a little bit more.” (19:46)
• Restaurants’ barriers: Time constraints for staff limit restaurant adoption, but those that do use it to feature special wines and create a unique table-side experience.
• The role of demos: The most success comes from “live” tasting events where people experience the before and after for themselves. (21:33)

7. Identity and Legacy

• Inventor, entrepreneur, or host?: Michael prefers to be thought of as a host, cherishing the community aspect of his tradition:
  “I like the host thing. I’m more comfortable being a host...just people getting together.” (22:01)
• The guest book: A running legacy of over 400 names of Thursday night guests reflects the business’s real impact—community, not just product.

8. Lessons for Entrepreneurs and Students

• Start small, let things grow organically:
  “You don’t have to start big. You could start small. I started with that stainless steel thing. I had $25 into it just to prove that it worked.” (27:04)
• Hobby or business?:
  “Ideally start it as a hobby because you can always turn a hobby into a business. But if you start with a business first...there are way more doors that are closed than open.” (28:39)
• Have a community: It’s easier and more enjoyable to build something with people who share your excitement; partnerships can help with parts you don’t enjoy or excel at.

9. Looking Forward

• Open to collaboration: Michael is open to partnering with someone who shares his passion to help Liquid Jazz grow, especially those with operational and technical skills.
  “It would be nice if there was somebody out there that...understood the technology...and the backdoor management part. I love doing the shows.” (29:15)

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Notable Quotes

• On respecting tradition:
  “If you don’t respect the wine, don’t make it.” – Mr. Staffieri, quoted by Michael (08:03)

• On serendipity in invention:
  “You can’t force it...you can’t become heavy handed with it. You have to let it come into you...You couldn’t change the tides.” – Keith (11:48)

• On sharing and community:
  “The wine...is just the conduit that gets us all together.” – Michael (05:35)

• On entrepreneurship:
  “You don’t have to start big. You could start small...and just let it grow naturally.” – Michael (27:04)

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Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• First wine night & the fruit fly disaster: [03:02]
• “If you don’t respect the wine, don’t make it”: [08:03]
• Nature inspires invention (Gloucester & river): [09:27] – [10:51]
• First prototype and initial test: [10:52] – [11:48]
• The Liquid Jazz name origin story: [18:48]
• Demonstrating the decanting process: [15:46] – [17:00]
• Legacy of the guest book: [22:01] – [23:01]
• Advice for new founders—start small: [27:04]
• Hobby vs. business decision: [28:39]

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Episode Takeaways

• Innovation often starts as a personal problem—and its best solutions emerge from lived experience, community, respect for tradition, and openness to serendipity.
• Building a product or business doesn’t have to start big; test, iterate, and let it grow through genuine connection.
• The core of enduring ventures often isn’t the product alone, but the community it builds and the experiences it enables.

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Connect with Michael and Liquid Jazz

• Website: LiquidJazz.Experience.com
• Michael encourages listeners to reach out, especially those interested in collaborating or experiencing a Thursday night tradition.

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Summary by episode timestamp: main content approx. [00:45]–[32:45]
(Commercials, intros/outros omitted; all quotes and stories are from substantive conversation)

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End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Michael Fors to liftoff. How are you today?

[B]

Very good, thank you. Very good.

[A]

Where am I finding you?

[B]

We're in Sturbridge, Massachusetts, and it is a spectacular spring day today, so we're having a good time.

[A]

All right, well, I'm glad I got you. Although now I feel bad I'm trapping you inside for a little bit of a. A conversation here. But, you know, for me to get the owner and. And inventor of the liquid jazz experience and the famous rocking decanter, I think I can. I can. I can make it all go down smooth.

[B]

I like that. All right, let's do it.

[A]

Well, listen, you started with a business plan. You didn't start with a business plan. You started with a Thursday night tradition. And it really captivated me, and it made me want to learn more about your story and tell me about your Thursday night tradition, Michael.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. It just came about. It was. There were no plans for anything. My wife and I were out with friends, and, you know, we asked him, you know, what are you doing this week? And Tony said, oh, we're pressing wine. His father has been making wine his whole life. He came over from Italy, and he said, we're doing the pressing on Monday night. Like, why don't you come over? So I'm like, all right. So I go over, and it was such a nice evening. You know, they're pressing the wine. We're sitting down. They have the charcuterie board out. We're drinking last year's wine and just squeezing the grapes, and the wine is just dripping out, and, you know, you're just tasting it. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so much fun. So I asked him, I said, tony, is there any chance that, you know, I could learn this? Is it tough to learn? I mean, I knew nothing, nothing, nothing about it. So he's like, yeah. So his dad was there, and Mr. Staffieri said, you know, if you want to, there's still another week to get grapes, because, you know, you make it in the fall when it's harvest season. So I went to the local store, I bought 10 cases of grapes, and we went up to his house, and he took me through the whole process. We crushed it at his house. The primary fermentation was at his house. And then after we pressed it and we put it into the carboys, I took them home and just let them do the secondary fermentation at the house. And I ended up with a really good. A good batch that year. And like any wine, you never know until it's finished if it's going to be a, you know, a good product. So the following year, I'm giving bottles away. I owned a business at the time, a retail store, and I'm giving stuff away, and a couple of customers are like, hey, we want to make wine with you next year. So I went out and bought some used equipment and we. I mean, the first year was a major challenge. I had no idea everything he went through before I got there. And after I left, I just thought

[A]

it was all canteen and the bottling.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Even just the prep work and, you know, what you need. I mean, we were what should have taken us two hours, took us 10 hours that first time because we had no idea we ran into so many challenges.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was. It was. We had a blast. So, you know, when I would call Tony and call Mr. Staffieri and say, hey, I got a problem here. Like, the first night, you know, they said, okay, you crush the grapes. The next morning you go down and you put the yeast in. Okay. So we crush them. We've got barrels all over the place of open must getting ready to start fermenting. So the next morning I got out into the wine cellar and I open the door and there has to be a billion fruit flies. I'm talking at least a billion. So I call them up and I'm like, tony, I don't know what I did wrong. I. There's a billion fruit flies down here. He goes, oh, I don't know how. I wonder how they got out from under the covers. Said, you never told me I had to cover it. So there they were. So then we had fly strips hanging everywhere. So anyway, so we go into the first year, and then after the primary fermentation, when you're in the secondary fermentation, there's a process they call racking. And all that is is you. We stick a siphon tube in there and you put it right down towards the bottom of the carboy, right above the sediment. And it's just a cleansing process.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So you draw off the, you know, the clean wine and put it in the other. So Kenny and Gary, the two guys that made it with me, were coming over. Kenny had a place up north. He goes skiing every Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Gary happened to work Friday, Saturday, Sunday was his shift. So Thursday night was a good night for us to get together. So Tony came up. We're racking, of course, we're sipping, sipping, sipping. And then another friend stopped in and was sipping. They go, oh, my God, it's So much fun. Are you gonna do this next week? And we're like, all right, yeah, we can, you know, we'll do a few bottles at a time and then that's, that's how the. Thursday night. So we're in our 26th year of meeting on Thursday nights. Imagine that, my love. Yep. And it's just, just people getting together, you know, the wine. And that was part of the thought process of, of the wine and the decanting process is it's not about the wine, obviously. That's just the conduit that gets us all together.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it doesn't matter what we're drinking, whose wine we're drinking. And we are not experts on wine. You know, our tasting, you know, we get some people that come that are sommeliers and are very serious about the wine, and we're pretty much, you know, you take a sip of a bottle and it's like, oh, I like that one, or oh, I don't. And that's.

[A]

With all your. Michael, with all your business experience, I have a hypothesis that I think founders have to personally feel a problem to solve it.

[B]

Well, all right, that makes sense.

[A]

Do you, do you agree with that? And what was the problem you felt and when did you know you had a real business?

[B]

You know, I, I like that and I agree with that 100%. It, it all came about because of the, the issue I was having. And it was on, on wine nights. You know, if you're listening, audience, if you're wine drinkers and you understand the decanting and the aeration process, you know, the decanting process is just when you're pouring the bottle of wine into another vessel, and then you watch that little neck of the bottle and if you see any sediment, you stop. Basically, that's decanting. You can decant into a five gallon bucket and that's the decanting process and then the aeration part. So what I would do on Thursdays is I would open a couple of bottles, you know, three hours before we were going to get together and just let it breathe, let the negative gases escape, you know, the sulfite flavors and all that stuff. Let us get. So then we'd sit outside and, you know, you and I and two other people were sitting there having a glass of wine, chit chatting. And then a car would pull in, A car would pull in. And now I'm out of the stuff that I let aerate and I had to go get another bottle. And it was the same wine, but it didn't taste the same because it didn't have that time. Interesting. I'm thinking that there has to be a way. So I, you know, I went online and I started researching, and everything I found was so aggressive with the wine. You know, when Tony's dad, when he came to probably like the second or third wine night we had, he was Kenny, one of the guys we were making it with. All we did was stick a cyclo tube into a carboy, draw it out, and just fill the glasses. That's how we were drinking our wine. No opening bottles, no nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Kenny was filling Mr. Staffieri's glass, and, you know, you put your thumb over the animal. He was a little late, and maybe a sip spilled on the floor. And Mr. Staffieri slaps his hand on the table and said, if you don't respect the wine, don't make it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're like, oh, my God. And it was passionate. You know what I mean? It was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But then I. You know, over the years, I kept thinking about that, like, he brought this from Italy.

[A]

He.

[B]

He came from Italy to America for a new start. And pretty much other than the clothes on his back, what he brought was the making of the wine. So every year, that tied him to Italy. And I think, you know what I said, I'm going to respect that. That. So when I'm looking at these different ones, you know, there's one that it sits on a little vibrating base, and it shakes it all over the place. And there's another one. You drop a pill in it, and it creates a vortex in there, and it's whipping the wine all over. And I'm like, yeah, that. I. I just didn't like that. And then years go by. Years go by, and we like to vacation on the Gloucester coast. Gloucester, Massachusetts. It's up on the north shore, and it's kind of a rocky coast. You know, there's a few little inlets that have beaches. And the place we stay, the bass rock, Sand. Right. It's across the street, but they own the land on. On the ocean front.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's a little grass area. It has four Adirondack chairs there. And every year we go up. I, obviously, I bring my homemade wine. I put it in a plastic container. I go across with my plastic wine glass, and I just sit there and just enjoy. Well, this one day, it's beautiful. It's just enough sun to keep you warm. There's a lobster guy pulling traps out front. A sailboat goes by, a guy's fishing off the rocks. But I'm like, really? This is, you know, one of those TV moments. And then, and then all of a sudden the tide changed because it was slack tide, so it was just flat. And then the waves start crashing on the rocks and I start smelling the salt air and the seaweed and I'm like, oh my God. Just that splashing of the water, you know, it wasn't crashing like a storm, it was just, you know, splash, splash. And it opened up the ocean. So I said, if I can have a gentle way to do the wine. So fast forward that winter and again, it's funny how it fell into place. I'm walking with a friend of mine, we live near a river and it was cold, so the river was frozen except this one area that was about 18 inches wide, 3ft long. And it didn't freeze because the water was flowing over a series of rocks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm watching that go over and there was some low branches there and there were icicles from the mist of the water forming on the low branches. So my friend Johnny, I said, look at that. And he's like, yeah, okay, that's what, that's what it does. But I said to him, yeah, but if I find something where I can roll the wine over that's going to make it splash a little bit, it's going to open the wine up like the ocean did the, you know, the splashing did in the ocean. So I know a guy who owns a sheet metal shop so out of food grade stainless. I had to make a. This little prototype. It was just like a. This U shaped thing and the bottom had some ridges in it. And one wine night there was six of us there and I said, look, I have this idea, I want to try it. And we did it and lo and behold, it worked. So that's kind of poetic. Yeah, it was, it was so fun.

[A]

It's poetic. But I'm going to come back to the idea of building a business, starting a company, being innovative.

[B]

It.

[A]

You can't force it, you can't like become heavy handed with it. You have to let it come into you. Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, did you, do you feel that or.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, you couldn't change the tides, you couldn't change the.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right, right. Yep. Yeah, it was.

[A]

And again you had a Gloucester moment and it became your, your sort of your origin myth.

[B]

Right, Correct. Exactly. You know, and when the prototype work, I was actually just kind of happy with that. Yeah. You know, and then we're using it now at wine nights, and people like, oh, my God, you should go. You know, do something with this. And so, again, now, months go by, a year goes by, and I keep thinking about it. And then I retired, and I'm like, you know, I've had, like, everybody. We all have a ton of ideas that we just let go by the wayside and, you know, and then the next thing you know, there's a computer out there that we didn't invent that we could have invented.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it changes our. Our life. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna give it a shot. So I started looking. I found this launch company that I, you know, I paid them, and they helped me come up with different designs, and we worked on names, and. And then from that point on, I got to a point was like, you know what? I'm. I'm doing it. So we.

[A]

Then you went. And then you did the patent, right? Then you created a patent around the. The process.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Yeah, we went. I met with a patent attorney. Great guy. I mean, he was. He worked for Pratt Whitney on the jet engine. So his big thing was. Yeah. Getting patents on the parts that they used in the engines so that, you know, the competitors couldn't, you know, take apart an engine and use what they design. So I brought him this, and when he told me his story, I'm like, okay. You know, he's working on jet engines. I'm trying to make wine taste better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like, you know, I've never done anything like this. So he said, yeah, I'd like to take the journey with you. So we did it. And for the other people who are thinking of going for an invention out there, I'm gonna plug the. The invention. The patent office. Okay. If you're over 65, you get a. A 40% discount, and you get expedited because so many people. Yeah. So many people who are retiring.

[A]

No idea that that was the case. Well, now you're real, though. Now if you go to that step, you're like, okay, I'm. I'm committed. I'm going all in.

[B]

Yes. Yep. And that's what.

[A]

Tell me about. Tell. Give me the context now of the liquid jazz experience and the decanter.

[B]

Okay. So the whole process is, you know. I mean. Yeah, I have one here by chance. Yes. Yeah. How lucky was that? Right. That I had one here? And I. And I have, you know, bottle of wine. Yeah. So I'll. Yeah, I'll give it a quick show.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So the wine. And again, we're not really. We don't really care what. What wine it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's. For us, it's just the. The enjoyment of the. Of the wine, I guess the.

[A]

The difference is you don't decant everything.

[B]

Correct, Correct. Exactly. So what I like to do, and I do it every time I. I run a bottle through the decanter is I do the. Let me go. I pour a little bit off to the side.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I like to see the change.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

It's fun. So when I'm doing a show, I usually just leave about 25% in the bottle.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because what happens is unless you really see the taste, the difference.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is actually right now, the decanting process.

[A]

So as a big decanter, too.

[B]

Yes. As a pouring. I'm watching right here on the bottle.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if I see any sediment, like, there's a little sediment there, so I stop.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So technically, that's the decanting process. Decanting is done. Right now what we're doing is where we're aerating it, so we're opening it up and letting the negative compounds in there dissipate.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I've got my little timer over here. We have found. And all we do now is just slowly rock like this back and forth. Walkaby, baby. Yep, yep. So. And we found for like, 95% of the wines that we've done, four minutes seems to be the lucky number.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So just a slow rock like this for four minutes. And, you know, when I'm out there doing the shows, it's funny, you know, you get some people that are looking at that and they're going. It's so relaxing just watching the wine roll back and forth, you know?

[A]

And then, because that's what we think of with wine, it helps us relax, Right?

[B]

Correct. That's the whole. And again, that's why we went with Liquid Jazz Experience. Yeah. How the name came, that's another story. I tend to be a little bit of a storyteller. My grandchildren will tell you all about that. So we used to have a holiday party, a Christmas party every year, the Saturday before Christmas. And it grew into more of an open house. So we would have, you know, 60, 70 people that would go through because we own businesses. My wife won't own one. I owned one. So we just tell them, come up, you know, have a. You know, have a drink. And just. So our son was a saxophone major at the University of Massachusetts. So the first year I made wine, he brought out the sex Quartet. So they were in the foyer playing Christmas carols as people were walking in. It was beautiful. So then they're playing, playing, playing. They stop. They take a break. So they're gone. And then our son was a. He liked big band and marching band. So pretty much the. The way the music was written was the way you had to play it, you know, because marching band, when they're on the field, you know, you hit a certain note, the kids had to turn, and in big band, you hit a certain note, and now different instruments are coming in. So it was pretty critical. So they're playing, and they take a little break. They come back from the break, and now his friend Andy's playing guitar with them. His friend Ray's got a snare drum. He's keeping the beat with the snare drum. And now all of a sudden, they're not playing Christmas carols anymore. And the tunes are more upbeat and peppy. So Tony, the guy that taught me how to make wine, and my wife go up to Anthony, our son, and said, anthony, what's going on? This is so not you. He said, well, during the break, we got into the homemade wine, and then one of the guys in the back says, we get into the liquid jazz. So that's how the music of jazzy was, because of the wine, which was the liquid. So that's how we came up with liquid jazz. So our logo is a saxophone pouring notes into a glass of wine.

[A]

That is perfect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then again, I'm getting thirsty. Tell me, as you're doing this, what is this surprised you most about bringing this to market? And I know you sell to restaurants and you promote a home host program. Which one adopted it faster? Which one do you see more? The.

[B]

The straight to the consumer. The homeowner one, they seem to appreciate a little bit more. The problem I'm having with the restaurants is the restaurants, that wine is a big part of what they do. Yeah. And they like this because they use this. You know, they go to the table, they'll spend time with with you and talk about the wine and romance the wine a little bit. And they're willing to take the time. Most of the restaurants, you know, four or five minutes for a server in a restaurant is a lot of time. Yeah, they can get a lot of work.

[A]

Restaurants, you know, turn those tables.

[B]

Right, right. You know, but we have a few around here where, you know, your table is yours for the. For the night. So, you know, they don't mind spending that extra time with you.

[A]

Good.

[B]

So. So those people There, what they're using it for is kind of like featuring a wine that either they got a really good deal on and they want to turn some to, you know, to turn it into cash or a wine that they've had for a while and they want to move the inventory. So what they'll do is that'll be the wicked, the liquid jazz experience, wine of the evening. So the only way you get to use the decanter is if you use that wine.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So it entices you to. To, you know, to take that path. So that's. But that's been hard. It's been hard to get people to buy into that. When I do the shows, they're usually at a. At a winery or at a wine shop or at a, you know, a festival type thing. And when people can taste the before and after, that's where I have my. My best six. My best success is when people can try the product.

[A]

I bet those, those wineries that you find, you know, those, especially the smaller ones, can really embellish a project like this.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, they like that because they like spending time with the customer.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And plus, you'll run a few different bottles and that'll help you be. Build the business up. Michael, do you. Do you think of yourself as an inventor, an entrepreneur, a host? How do you. How do you view yourself?

[B]

Well, the inventor pot I struggled with, but when I do the shows, a lot of times my daughter will come help me, and she's proud of that fact, so she promotes that. I like the hosts thing. I'm more comfortable being a host. Yeah, I just love, like the win nights, the people that we have that just show up. I started a book when we first started doing it, and I, I kick myself all the time that I stopped doing it. But, like, if you were coming, let's say, you know, now we know each other, and you call up and say, hey, I'm going through Sturbridge, I'm heading to Boston, but I'm going through Thursday. You know, how about if I stop in for an hour, just say hi and have a glass of wine. Perfect. So with that book, you would sign that book. The first time that you come, you'd sign it. And we were at the. We have over 400 names in that book, and I haven't done that book in 10 years.

[A]

Oh, it's.

[B]

It's so nice. You know, last week, Last week there was 15 of us that was sitting around. We were outside. It was. It was cold. I mean, it was in the, you know, low 40s, high 30s. But I had a fire pit and was sitting around the fire pit and just talking and laughing. And the range of people that are there is. It's awesome. I mean, I know the dynamics of pretty much everybody that comes, but the other people don't. And I see people talking with, you know, new newfound friends and stuff like that, and it's like they would never talk to each other in the. You know, because we stay away from, obviously, the two biggest things. We don't talk politics and we don't talk religion.

[A]

What about sports? What if I don't like one of those Boston teams?

[B]

Yes. See, there aren't many people out there in the world that don't like the Boston team.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

But. But you know what? Most of the people at combat, because really, they come dressed in. In everything. So you have the different hats and, like, really a Met set.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But it's funny because.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But everybody's there just to enjoy themselves. So we just start, and it all becomes a fun banter, which is very relaxing and very enjoyable.

[A]

And you see where I'm going with my questions, Michael. I'm trying to connect this to the entrepreneur and the startup experience. And I feel like there's a lesson in this for companies. Even though I talk mostly about the tech world. Right. SaaS and chips and, you know, software and all that good stuff, computers. But I feel like there's something about trying to make it more approachable, more friendly, more of a community thing, whether you're talking about technology or wine.

[B]

And that was my goal because that's where I'm the happiest. You know, I enjoy that. I love learning about other technologies. You know, all the years that I've been in sales and I had my own business, I never tried to compete with the person who knew more than me in the field that they were in. I was comfortable knowing that, like, with you with the chip world, I mean, I look at those boards sometimes, like, oh, my goodness, how could I keep it Comprehend how the first one was just like, you know, I'm going to take a little solder and I'm going to stick this to this. And I'm like, really? You know, but, you know, I owned a paint store for a while, and I could custom match a color just with my eye with playing with all the different pigments. And I'm thinking, this chip guy couldn't do this. Yep. You know, so it's just, you know, your world. So we try and sit, and when we get Somebody who's kind of focused in what the. What they do, really. We've gotten to the point where the. The basic core of the people. And the basic core is probably, you know, 30 different people that come not weekly but, you know, frequently. And then when someone new comes, oh, my God, everybody's just picking their brains because we want to learn about something new and something different. And then obviously, we share what. What we know, and now we all leave a little bit better off. Yeah. You know, and we don't take anybody's world more serious than anybody else's. You know, even when the we, you know, we had heart surgeons and dental surgeons that come to wine nights and, you know, they're talking about what they're doing and, you know, when they're not grossing us all out, it's really interesting that what they do.

[A]

I love the jazz experience, man. Tell me what. What kind of lessons would you share when you talk to some people that are either sitting around the table or the fire or their students that bump into you, what kind of thoughts do you share with them about. About coming up with ideas and turning them into businesses?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, the big thing was you don't have to start big. You could start small. I started with that stainless steel thing. I had $25 into it just to prove that it worked. You know, find people that have, like, thoughts, you know, like, luckily, the guy that I was going to have make it, he liked wine, so, like, oh, this is a pretty cool idea. So he put a little bit more effort, a little more heart into it than, you know, the average person goes and. And just let it. Let it just grow naturally. And then if it gets to the point where you financially can do it, you can find people that can help you do it. Because I had no idea how to. How to do this. And Obviously now with ChatGPT and Google and stuff, you've got a lot more help now than, you know, we did in the past. But, yeah, just try it. Take baby steps. That's all. I mean, you watch. I love Shark Tank. I mean, I liked it even before I had the invention. And you listen to them, and none of them jumped into anything. It was all just this slow grind. And then you reach that point where you have to decide, now I jump or I just let it go to the side.

[A]

I could see you taking this to Shark Tank or something, one of those types of programs. What kind of a question should I ask myself if I think I have an idea? Right. And I just. I. I don't know. Really, what, what that next step is, what should I ask myself or what, how do I explore that?

[B]

Right. Is this going to be a, a hobby or do I really want it to be a business? Yeah, I think that's, that would be one of the key components of the decision and ideally started as a hobby because you can always turn a hobby into a business. But if you start with a business first. Boy, this. There's a lot of. Yeah, there's a lot of doors you're in. When you're in a room, there are way more doors that are closed than there are open.

[A]

Yep. No, that makes perfect sense. So, Michael, what's next for you?

[B]

I'm going to keep doing the shows. I mean, ideal situation. I'm at a crossroads and it would be nice if there was somebody out there, one of your listeners that I could partner with a little bit. You know, I'm willing to give up shares. I have two children that are doing well and successful and they're both career choices. So this is not a, you know. Right. Something that's going to be hand down for future generations. But I would like it to, to continue. I know I have inventory and you know, we're slowly selling off the inventory. But it would be nice if there was somebody out there that liked, you know, like the same thing, that understood the technology behind part, understood the, you know, the backdoor management part. I love this. I love going to the shows, I love doing the trade shows. I love meeting people, you know, all the different personalities that are out there. And it's funny, the buzzwords that some people grab. Like, there was this one guy, we were doing a show, my daughter and I, and we did this one guy kept coming over and he's really intrigued about it. And then our daughter said, oh, and he has a patent on this. It changed everything. He ended up buying one. He went from just the curiosity, but the patent, just knowing there was a patent on it just got him to do that, you know, got him to the next level, which was kind of cool. And again, the patent process, it doesn't have to be overly difficult. I mean, this guy was. When I tell people what he charged me to do, everything that he did, they were just blown away. They said, you know, that should have been 10, $15,000. It was, it was way below that. But he got, But I luckily found someone who was thought, you know, he's in the technology world like you are. The whole time. He's like, you know, this is just a fun thing. You know, every time I go we'd get together, I bring it, we'd have a glass of wine. We're just sitting back, chit chatting. Next thing you know, he's like, oh, I got a bunch of questions to ask you first. That. That was just. The business was secondary. It was just the. The friendship and the time spent and the camaraderie. And I mean, you know, when you talk about my world and his world, we would never, ever connect had it not been for a bottle of wine.

[A]

Well, I'll toast you in the. And the. And the great run you've had. This has been a. A fun chat. The Liquid Jazz Experience deserves to go on because we need more things that help us connect with each other and share experiences and share all kinds of things. And, and thank you for bringing that to. To our attention. And, and. And one of the things Michael will make sure we do as we distribute this recording.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Make sure people know how to get in touch with you and learn more, please.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. It's a. Yeah, obviously, it's LiquidJazz. Experience.com is the website. And yeah, all your listeners, tell your friends, tell everybody.

[A]

Stop by on the way to Boston when you're gonna go see your next Celtics or Red Sox game, huh?

[B]

Yeah, looks like. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, the poor Yankees, they struggled in Tampa.

[A]

Oh, well, we can't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, well, it's early.

[A]

We can't worry too much about the Yankees this year. They'll be fine. Michael, thanks again. Great chatting with you.

[B]

Yep. Appreciate the time.

[A]

My pleasure.