← Liftoff with Keith: Conversations with Super Founders and Growth Experts sharing useful insights
Liftoff with Keith: Conversations with Super Founders and Growth Experts sharing useful insights
No Fashion Experience? No Problem | How Justin Baer Built Collars & Co to $75M
00:27:08
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- [00:00]
Justin Baer
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Keith
This episode is brought to you by the outstanding team at Compass Strategic Advisors, your trusted partner in driving strategic growth. Whether it's expanding into new territories, launching products, rebranding, or hiring key staff and board members, they offer expert guidance every step of the way. With a versatile approach and a proven track record, Compass is the go to resource for both startups and established companies looking to scale with confidence. Show some support for this podcast by sharing this appreciation and checking out their website at www.compass-strategic-advisors.com. well, we have an amazing e commerce story for you today. We've got the man behind Collars and company. If you haven't heard of them, you will soon. They are on a tear and we have the CEO, the founder, Justin Baer. Welcome to the liftoff.
- [01:02]
Justin Baer
Thanks Keith. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
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Keith
Oh, I'm delighted you've had a successful liftoff already. We really have to be talking about the next phase, which is escape velocity, right? Isn't that the term? In three years, $75 million from zero as an unknown e commerce brand into a heavily crowded space, a noisy media world. You have to tell us, what's the secret?
- [01:27]
Justin Baer
I don't know. This is, you know, one of my silly ideas that I came up with. Always been an entrepreneur as a kid, coming up with all kinds of stuff and I don't know if this was the best idea I've had but you know, but going into it, obviously it's been the most successful but you know, I think it's product market fit and kind of touched on something. The timing was right coming out of COVID and people kind of going business casual a little bit. And this is just a silly problem that I felt and had which was I wear a sweater, I'm not wearing it today, but a sweater over a dress shirt all the time. When I was in living in New York and working there, it's kind of like the midtown uniform.
- [02:07]
Keith
Got it.
- [02:08]
Justin Baer
I just found it really uncomfortable to wear a long sleeve dress shirt under a sweater. Like you're pulling the sleeves down, it's getting stuck. And I've been there. I was like, you know what, I want to create a polo and I want to put a firm collar on it. Here, I got one here. So it's like a polo, but this can't see to my thing. But this really firm collar, right? And I was like, you know what, I'd rather wear this because it feels so much softer on my skin and I don't get hot and I don't need the Sleeves. And my seven year old daughter's like, dad, you gotta do a TikTok video. And like. Yeah. So she's holding the phone up and I'm in my closet saying, guys, don't you wear dress shirts? They're hot. They're this, they're this, they suck. Check out one of these dress collar polos. We sat down to watch Netflix that night and the phone started beeping with orders and from the Tick Tock videos. Yeah, that's how it started.
- [02:55]
Keith
So what did your daughter ask for in terms of a commission?
- [02:58]
Justin Baer
Stock. Yeah, no, I didn't. She's. That was, yeah, that was it. Because that was the start.
- [03:04]
Keith
You know what is, isn't that the, isn't that the core of entrepreneurship? You started off trying to solve a problem that you had personal experience with. I mean, it wasn't world changing social impact, but there was a need there. And the fact that you had such a fast response, that's the kind of product led growth, viral kind of activity that tells you you got something real, right?
- [03:25]
Justin Baer
Exactly. Yeah. I could just feel the momentum. Like I said, I've been an entrepreneur, always coming up with ideas, filling businesses out. And this one's the first one where I felt that just tremendous velocity behind what we were doing and it just kept catching on and kind of went all in with it, you know, quit my job and.
- [03:44]
Keith
But you're, you're a tech guy, you have some experience with running software companies. Right. And you're, you're also a non fashion guy. You look great in that shirt, by the way. And I love the new commercials. But in terms of the fashion industry, it's not like you're coming over from, you know, Polo or Gucci.
- [04:02]
Justin Baer
No. And I think that's probably to our advantage, being naive about the industry. And I'm sure a lot of people that were coming from the industry. Oh, you can't do that. What do you mean? You can't do like. And I hear that a lot. You know, I listen to other podcasts and other, you know, big businesses and people have never, you know, it seems like these businesses that take off are really run by entrepreneurs that know nothing about the industry and kind of have an inkling and a good gut about certain things. But yeah, yeah, no, no real industry. No real industry experience.
- [04:32]
Keith
Yeah. Justin, I live right here in the middle of Silicon Valley and these stories are pretty common, but not outside of tech. So you jump into, from tech into cpg, which to, to many seems like, you know, a place where a lot of traps have occurred. Like, not a lot of people have gone from B2B to CPG or B2C and been successful.
- [04:56]
Justin Baer
Yeah, well, I mean, I always had that kind of marketing feel for it. And, you know, E commerce is definitely tech driven. You're using a lot of tech. I mean, most of our ad spend is digital, so it's really kind of understanding Facebook and Meta and Instagram.
- [05:11]
Keith
Right?
- [05:11]
Justin Baer
Yeah, Instagram. You know, understanding ads and the right spends and trying to get the right numbers. So there's a lot behind that too.
- [05:18]
Keith
So it becomes all cac, ltv, ROAS and all those fun acronyms.
- [05:22]
Justin Baer
Right, Exactly.
- [05:24]
Keith
So managing those knobs, which is your media optimization strategy, how much is is it in the hands of creative at this point? Like both from designing product to designing.
- [05:36]
Justin Baer
Marketing the success of it?
- [05:40]
Keith
Well, yeah, and. And actually trying to get to the next level of growth. Right.
- [05:44]
Justin Baer
It's really hard. I mean, if someone gave me, you know, a couple hundred dollars pretty much on any product, I could probably make it profitable on Facebook. With the right ads, you could probably land it. But try spending $50,000 a day on Facebook trying to make that work. It's hard. That's where the difficulty comes and trying to come up with different avatars on who you're going to reach out to. Okay, so, you know, I'm going to reach out to the finance bros that are 20 to 30, and then I got to have that reach the dads, the young dads, and then the guys that are reaching retirement. You know, you're kind of constantly trying to figure out, how can I create ads to get a piece of that market so that I can spend even more money on Facebook?
- [06:25]
Keith
Justin, I haven't done Facebook ads for a while. So are you seeing the lookalike audiences and retargeting themes still pretty important, or are those starting to shift into the background?
- [06:37]
Justin Baer
I mean, I think the biggest shift is going to be. I personally think Facebook does not love the idea of ad buyers and making it so complicated. They want to have any old person say, I'm willing to spend a thousand bucks a day and I've got, you know, a new golf ball or something out of my desk, and they should be able to just go on, right on Facebook and say, I sell golf balls. I'm willing to spend a thousand bucks. And Facebook is going to deliver those ads to the right audience. They're going to figure it out. So they're really using AI now more, and I think they're pushing more and more people to it to make it More, you know, it used to be kind of a black box and you need to hire a ad buyer. I mean we look, we do, we're spending a ton of money. We are trying to still, you know, outsmart them in a way, but that's where everything's going. They want to make it really simple.
- [07:27]
Keith
So how much of what you're doing today in being a successful company in a crowded market is attributable to just being a smart manager or you hit the right product or you really know how to manage marketing?
- [07:43]
Justin Baer
It's a good question. I mean the number one is you got to have a great product. We've got, you know, that's, you've got to have a great product. And then I think it's brand right where people are, the product makes sense or the brand makes sense for the product and then come comes marketing and marketing's got to be spot on and on brand and but it's product market fit, you know, that's, that's going to be the big thing. You know, do you have product?
- [08:08]
Keith
It's such a tired phrase at this point, but it doesn't make it any less true.
- [08:13]
Justin Baer
No. And look, I think a lot of e commerce brands for it to work these days, if you want to be profitable with ads, it's got to be something that you can have a second purchase. I think usually, you know, I think maybe that's why you're seeing some of these mattress companies struggle is you buy just once every 10 years. Whereas for us we're happy to break even on the first order. We'll make money on the second order. Once you're in our system, then you'll get our emails and you'll say oh my God, look at this. They make performance dress shirts like I'm wearing right now. You know, this is our cooling tech dress shirt and it's got a reinforced collar and so that will make money on the second purchase. But it's how can you get that cac to a point where you know it's profitable or break even on the first order.
- [08:53]
Keith
So what are you doing now to extend your growth? How much of it are you accelerating from the marketing side versus are you looking at brand extension, Product extension? I've been on your site, I've seen your brands, I've seen the TV commercials as well. All great, congrats. But what's powering that in his AI? Part of that equation now too.
- [09:17]
Justin Baer
Feeling of a good brand or you know, you have a solid brand when people are buying into it and Buying your non core category products. Right. Like our hero product is the dress collar polo. It's the polo with the firm collar. I feel like we knew we had something when they're buying our pants and they're buying our knit polos and our marina wool sweaters. So they're buying into that brand, you know, being into that brand value. That's I think when you know you, you have something to work with here. And that's what we're doing. We're expanding product category. Only half of our business now is polo shirts. Little bit less than half. So that's surprising. And co than we are collars.
- [09:56]
Keith
So the product extension come into discussion where you have to do a sub brand or a new brand. I know some of the other players in the space do that.
- [10:06]
Justin Baer
Not yet. I think we've got some Runway here with Collars & Co. For sure. Kind of similar to like a suit supply where you know they're not selling many ties anymore or still is a good amount of suits but it's a lot of a casual wear too. Whereas I think we've got a lot of Runway for us to expand into non core category products. Our blazers are crushing. We've got these pull on pants that are amazing. We just launched pull on shorts. I mean I think we're, we're in a good spot for menswear that we. There's still a lot more categories and products we're going to come out with.
- [10:35]
Keith
Okay, should I come up with my own ideas for you? Should I send them to you if I have any?
- [10:40]
Justin Baer
Absolutely.
- [10:41]
Keith
The, the workout short that easily accommodates a phone or a headphone scenario. Not, not the big ones, I guess. Not the over the years, but the AirPod kind of things I always get.
- [10:56]
Justin Baer
That's a good idea. We need, you know, an AirPod case pocket that's zippered. When you're leaning on the bench, it doesn't fall out.
- [11:03]
Keith
Yeah, because I don't want to use the lockers and I have a key or two and I have an AirPod and I have my phone and I'd love to be able to keep that comfortable in my person.
- [11:12]
Justin Baer
That's a great idea.
- [11:13]
Keith
It's free today, Justin.
- [11:15]
Justin Baer
Okay.
- [11:16]
Keith
No royalty, just 10 stock with your daughter. Well, you are doing great. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and mention it. I hope it's okay. You were like the top 5% as you were on Shark Tank. You were, you had the top 5% class in terms of success. I guess that means on the top end, top line. Business. What was the secret of getting on and becoming successful? Leveraging that experience as well for any of the folks who might be, you know, aspiring to be on Shark Tank or, you know, the many knockoffs or similar programs. Yeah.
- [11:55]
Justin Baer
Yeah. So when I came up with the idea, of course we've probably all said it to other people. People have said it to us. When you come out of the us, oh, you should go on Shark Tank. I'm like, that sounds like a good idea, but. And no one's getting. I'm not getting on that show. So honestly, I thought, well, I think it's a cool Shark Tank idea. It's kind of has, like, a fun gimmick, you know, these hard collars. And I was like, let me think if I know anybody or I can find, like, a producer at, like, Sony Pictures or whoever's producing this thing to kind of get it in. And I looked around. I didn't know anybody. And then, literally, it was just late one night. My kids were going to sleep, and it was like, 11:30. I'm like, you know what? What the heck? I've got 20 minutes. I'll just go to abc.com just like 50,000 other people and fill out the form. And sure enough. And I did it quick because I was like, no one's. No one's gonna read this. And they called back. And now when they call back, you're really excited because you're like, oh, my God, I made it onto the show. Little do you know, it's like one of 10, maybe 12 interviews that you're going through over a long period of time. And I think they're constantly siphoning people out. In fact, even on the show, when you shoot it, you don't necessarily even make the show. There's a lot of people. Half the people in my group or class that shot that day didn't even air, which is the biggest kick in the pants ever.
- [13:14]
Keith
Cutting room floor.
- [13:16]
Justin Baer
Yeah. I mean, it's just awful because it. You know, it can take a whole year to work your way into the show and spend time and tell your friends and. And then you shoot and you get a deal, and then they don't air. It is awful. So you are thinking about that and trying to make sure that your show is exciting and fun and combative so that they air it. And then the other thing is, sometimes you get a deal. We got to deal with Mark Cuban and Peter Jones. A lot of these guys don't close the deal. Not that the Sharks don't do it, but Definitely.
- [13:45]
Keith
I've seen that and I've talked to other people. They have the right to decline and. And they do it because they don't like, you know, the way you smile. They could decide for any reason.
- [13:55]
Justin Baer
I think I would. I don't know. I heard some stats like only 30% of the deals actually end up closing. Wow. We ended up closing. But a lot of times the entrepreneurs are lying. You know, they don't actually tell everything. That's right.
- [14:06]
Keith
That never happened. Entrepreneur.
- [14:10]
Justin Baer
But no, ours. Ours closed. And Mark's been super cool, such a nice guy and helpful and his team's helpful. Same with Peter Jones. So we've been lucky with those guys for sure.
- [14:22]
Keith
And. And are you happy with. Well, first, what happened when you were off the show? Then what? How did things just blow up online? Did your servers crash and all that good stuff?
- [14:33]
Justin Baer
No service. We were on Shopify, so we knew they could handle it. We did let them know ahead of time that, hey, we're going to show. I don't know if there's anything they needed to do or any buttons to push, but we were going to get, you know, a surge of traffic. I think we got four times the amount of traffic, four times the amount of daily sales on that one night, which is pretty cool. And then we did an update also, you know, they do like last time on Shark Tank, right? Which was pretty neat actually. They. This was during the time of COVID when we were doing the update. Usually they would fly a crew out to you and shoot the update. You know, where were you then? And yeah, to they. This time they sent a giant suitcase with gear in it and said, you're gonna shoot it. And literally the producer was on zoom shooting this thing remotely, which is pretty wild.
- [15:21]
Keith
So top 10 show on ABC. They don't have the budget to sit down.
- [15:27]
Justin Baer
I guess they knew they can get away with, hey, let's get Justin and his friend to shoot the. Right. The update. I mean, look, we took a ton of footage and then we sent them all the footage and then they. They did it. But the update was amazing. So if you're like YouTube collars and co update. And they did a really nice job with it. And. And on the regular show, they, you know, you're in there for an hour and 15 minutes negotiating with these guys and they only air like eight minutes. So they left a lot of things out. Like both my parents died when I was younger and you know, they just like, we're going to leave that part out. Like, we're going to make you this, like, cocky kid, you know, this cocky preppy kid that thinks everything. We'll just leave that stuff out. But they were able to kind of touch on it a little bit on the update, which is nice.
- [16:09]
Keith
How about when you evaluate the deal, it sounds like you're pretty happy, actually. But I heard they take a nice slice. Is it first year or.
- [16:15]
Justin Baer
Or the old days, the show would actually take a piece just to get on the show. That's not the case anymore.
- [16:20]
Keith
Okay.
- [16:21]
Justin Baer
So it's straight up with the Sharks. Whatever you guys negotiate for us, we negotiated 10 on the show and that's what we ended up closing with.
- [16:29]
Keith
Yeah.
- [16:29]
Justin Baer
But yeah, we're pretty happy with the 10. You know, a lot of times you get out of that gauntlet and they're taking 25 at least. So I think we made a good deal.
- [16:38]
Keith
Cool. So what can we. What can we look for from you next? I know out here everyone's talking about AI, which in the fashion world, I've done a little dabbling in there because my son's involved in the industry. You know, there's the virtual try on kind of of stuff. There's just some interesting things happening. What do you. What can we look for something different from you?
- [17:00]
Justin Baer
Yeah, I think with AI, I would say we'll talk about AI for a minute. I mean, AI for photography has been incredible. You know, we take a photo and there's like some weird coffee cup in the background. You know, the old days that would take two hours to crop out and have some. Now you literally just highlight it, hit crop out and it's done. So you can be a lot more efficient. You know, writing copy is tremendous.
- [17:24]
Keith
We use it design and placement is that.
- [17:27]
Justin Baer
Actually, this is pretty funny. I unrelated to this, but AI related, my daughter's at sleepaway camp. She wrote me and she's like, dad, you know, I'm kind of feeling homesick and da, da, da. So I was like, you know, I don't know. I want to make write the perfect email response. So I said, chatgpt, this is the letter from my daughter. Actually uploaded a PDF of it and it read it and then it wrote me back this really nice response. And then I wrote back, like, make it so that she doesn't feel like she's missing anything. And it wrote me, okay. So I paste the email back to my daughter. Great. You know, right. And then she wrote back, she's like, dad, thanks for the letter. Please don't use ChatGPT next time to write the letter. So it's just unbelievable that she knew there was chat GPT. I guess it wrote it so, you know, so eloquently.
- [18:13]
Keith
She busted you.
- [18:14]
Justin Baer
She busted me. So chatgpt story. But yeah, I mean it's, it's wild. But at the end of the day, you know, for us, we're not a digital product. We still have to make great looking clothes at great prices and create a brand. So there's only so much what AI is going to be able to help us? Yeah, it is. I mean it's helping us on the back end, on financials, on understanding the business and tons of data. So it's been pretty wild on the back end.
- [18:37]
Keith
That's great. So sitting back, Justin, and reflecting on your journey from 0 to 75 and, and now what you, what you're hoping to accomplish, not on a tactical level, but on a just a broad vision perspective. What are, what are your thoughts as an entrepreneur? Would you like to exit soon? Do you start to think about. I really love this. I want to stay here forever. You're a young man still young family. What, what are your thoughts as a founder, an entrepreneur? Yeah, yeah.
- [19:06]
Justin Baer
You know, I go back and forth with it. I've always been an entrepreneur. This has always kind of been my dream to kind of build something big. And a lot of my past businesses, I feel like they were good hits. You know, I've exited a couple businesses, but not like, you know, home runs, you know, kind of like doubles, which have been great, but I've never been able to kind of be at the plate to hit a grand slam.
- [19:29]
Keith
Yeah.
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Justin Baer
And it's really hard to even get into that position like I really value or not take for granted that hey, we're in a position where we do have the ability to maybe be the next, I want to say Ralph Lauren, but you know, Tommy Hilfiger.
- [19:44]
Keith
I'll throw that out because I've done.
- [19:46]
Justin Baer
Some work around like some. We. Look, there's a possibility, you know, we have a really good chance at it. We're seeing this momentum. Yeah, we could do it. So, you know, I feel like, hey, this is a one shot in a lifetime. Let's give it our best shot so that, you know, I don't have any regrets. Is there that famous story where the guy that sold Victoria's secret for like $10 million jumped off a bridge or something? Oh, I don't know if that's true. That's like a lore of like fashion lore.
- [20:12]
Keith
If I'm pulling back the camera here for you, you're in the Fourth or fifth inning, you got a solid hit or two, but you're. The game's close and you're still, you know, still want to get up and win it and hit a home run.
- [20:26]
Justin Baer
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot more we can do. We're just getting started scratching the surface on this and what we're doing, we're just in year four. You know, most of these giant businesses we're talking about are 20, 25 years old. And, you know, be nice if we could get to that size and notoriety, you know, in five years, but, you know, sometimes it just takes time, especially with our wholesale accounts. And.
- [20:47]
Keith
But the, but the shopping online has really been phenomenal and has allowed for development of new brands to become successful. Now, I'm not saying it's easy, but we've seen the Vuoris of the world and, you know, a lot of other brands that are just up through the Internet, they didn't have to go invest in stocking, you know, retail stores around the country or world. They.
- [21:10]
Justin Baer
Right.
- [21:10]
Keith
You were able to market one ship all over.
- [21:14]
Justin Baer
Yeah. I mean, this time, you know, the last 15 years is different than any other time before. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't be anything unless you were advertising in GQ in 19, 20, 10.
- [21:25]
Keith
Yeah. And how important is Shopify right now to you?
- [21:28]
Justin Baer
Oh, it's, it's the core.
- [21:30]
Keith
Yeah.
- [21:31]
Justin Baer
There's nobody even close, I don't think. I don't know how you would run your business without it.
- [21:34]
Keith
Yeah, they're. They're phenomenal. They are a monster. And it seemed like a great company, too. So let me ask you one quick side question before I, I wrap up with a few short ones. What about influencer marketing? Do you. Have you ascribed to that? I haven't seen anything where Steph Curry or, you know, LeBron James are wearing your stuff, you know, on the golf course or in, you know, their, their day to day.
- [22:00]
Justin Baer
Yeah, we, we have done some influencer marketing with Joe Buck. I actually was in New York yesterday with Tiki Barber. We've done stuff with Dan Orlopsky. We haven't done anything large yet with like a really big celebrity. Something we're thinking about. You know, they'd have to really be able to amplify the brand. You know, usually they want equity and some really big dollar amounts. But from just the regular influencer game, I think it's changed a bit in that, you know, I think Instagram and Facebook have gone a little more of the way of TikTok, where it's all about content where the old days LeBron could guarantee, hey, I'm going to get a million likes on my stuff no matter what I put out. And a million views. Now they can't guarantee it.
- [22:46]
Keith
Really.
- [22:47]
Justin Baer
And so the old days of them saying, hey, I want $50,000 for a post because I know I'm going to give you a million views isn't the case anymore. I mean, you've got probably, you know, big celebrities like LeBron where they only get 50,000 on a video. And if you were that brand, you're like, what the heck? I paid you for all these impressions and you can't deliver it on anymore.
- [23:05]
Keith
It all comes back to Matt, doesn't it?
- [23:06]
Justin Baer
Yeah. So. Well, now what I would do is with influencers, I'd say, okay, you have to guarantee me a certain number of impressions, and if you don't get it with the first video, you may have to do it with the second, third or fourth. But I'm paying you for impressions. And if the either ad dollars go to you or I can guarantee the ad dollars go to Facebook and they'll deliver the impression.
- [23:22]
Keith
So that's great. Well, Justin, thanks so much for sharing all this great insight. It's been phenomenal. So my audience of founders and entrepreneurs are always looking for those quick tips, you know, those insights that, that they can find. You've been an entrepreneur managing an E commerce brand. You've done a lot of digital marketing, you've done a lot of fashion. You've done, which includes manufacturing, delivery, distribution. What are some of the quick tips that you want to share with the audience?
- [23:51]
Justin Baer
I mean, for entrepreneurs, I think sometimes fast is better than perfect. You know, not getting hung up too much on, you know, I hear a lot of some of my friends are like working on a business and I'd go back to them six months later and be like, well, what's going on? How is it going? Like, well, we're still waiting for the product to be just right and I really needed to have this little particular functionality. I'm like, that has nothing to do with whether you're contest to see if the product can sell. Like, our dress scholar polo is 10 times better than it was when we first started. You know, you're going to make the product better. Just see if the thing can sell. If it sells, you've got something. If it doesn't sell, it's okay. You're going to move on to something else. So it's like, you know, get that minimal viable product out as soon as possible and see if the thing sells, you see, if the marketing sells, you.
- [24:36]
Keith
Have a real Silicon Valley style about you. There's a motto or an ethos out here. Go fast and break things.
- [24:43]
Justin Baer
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Keith
And I have talked to a few of your peers who say similar things. How about from a personal side? It's a business where there's always something to do. There's always a hundred things probably to do. How do you balance that with getting your workouts in and reading a story to your daughter and showing up to her daughter, taking your special someone out to dinner? How do you balance everything?
- [25:07]
Justin Baer
It's really hard. I mean, I. You can't. Honestly, I'd like to say, oh, you can. And you hear all these Instagram people that are like, oh, it's work, life balance. It's really not. I mean, I'm thinking about this.
- [25:21]
Keith
The four hour. The four hour work week.
- [25:22]
Justin Baer
Yeah, exactly. It's not exactly. Right. Not exactly with this one. It's not like I'm giving up a lot. I'm making a lot of compromises. My family is also. I'm working on this thing all the time. I put the kids to bed, I'm trying to be back on the phone, trying to, you know, hang with my wife and tell her about the business and make her feel invested in it. But it's a full time, seven day a week thing. Gordon Geckos Money never sleeps. Right? I mean, you're just. Our website's on all the time. There's no getting off of it.
- [25:53]
Keith
And there's a little bud Fox in me I don't know about. You know, you have a fantastic business. I. I just think it's great. Well, let's make sure my audience knows where to find you, where to find the product. Where, where, where should we go?
- [26:06]
Justin Baer
Yeah. Collars and co dot com. C O L L A R S A N dash dash C o dot com. Check us out. All kind. I mean, we're way beyond Polos now, but it's like that elevated, casual vibe. I think a lot of brands out there right now are so focused on this like 18 to 24 year old look. And it's a lot of athleisure. We're kind of going for that, you know, kind of office C suite look with a ton of value, bringing a lot of Italian influence and it's cool. Check out some of our stuff.
- [26:36]
Keith
Return to office is a hot trend. Merge with your demographic that I think is also a great spending demographic, you know.
- [26:44]
Justin Baer
Yeah.
- [26:45]
Keith
And you probably reached 25 to 50.
- [26:47]
Justin Baer
So, I mean, that's That's.
- [26:49]
Keith
That's a sweet spot. It sounds exciting. Justin, I want to talk to you in another couple years, if not sooner, of course. Just to find out how things are tracking. And I wish you the best of luck. It's been great talking with you.
- [27:01]
Justin Baer
Thank you so much, Kate. Appreciate it. Best luck to you, too.
- [27:03]
Keith
I'll try to keep it going. Thanks.