Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits — "An Immaculate Dwelling Place"

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: June 24, 2021
Main Theme:
Exploring the Orthodox Christian understanding of “sacred space”—the union of seen and unseen (material and spiritual) realms as experienced by humanity from Eden to Pentecost. The episode connects the biblical narrative of where God dwells—paradise, temple, Christ, and ultimately, within Christians themselves after Pentecost.

1. Introduction & Episode Purpose

The hosts set out to examine the feast of Pentecost through the lens of Orthodox tradition, tracing the concept of “where is God?” from Genesis to the New Testament, and ultimately to modern Christian experience. The journey explores the transformation from external, localized sacred space to God’s indwelling presence in the hearts of the faithful.

2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Sacred Space from Eden to Exile

Eden as the First Temple

• Eden is the “Place Where God Is.” Not a geographic spot but a “walled garden” (paradise) within the cosmos, set apart for God’s presence.
• Intention for Humanity: Adam and Eve were to expand Eden—to bring God’s presence to the whole cosmos (06:14-07:38).
• The Fall: Humanity’s expulsion from God’s immediate presence is not a punitive act but a mercy, preventing “crystallized rebellion” and allowing repentance.
  • "Actually, being sent out is a mercy." – Fr. Andrew (09:23)

“Death by Holiness” and Sacred Danger

• Death by Holiness: Danger of entering God’s presence unprepared—described as “death by holiness,” not because God is wrathful, but due to the nature of holiness. (13:30-15:01)
• Biblical examples (e.g., St. Paul’s warning in Corinthians) and the flaming sword at Eden’s gate illustrate this principle.

After Eden: God’s Presence Amidst a Fallen World

• Genesis 4-6: Evil increases, climaxing with the Nephilim (giants). God’s Spirit cannot “remain in/contend with” humanity’s wickedness indefinitely, triggering the Flood as “death by holiness” (16:58-19:20).
• The Flood & Rainbow Sign: God ceases direct presence to prevent constant destruction, promising not to “pick up the bow” (Rainbow) against humanity again (22:04-23:00).

Tower of Babel & God’s Withdrawal

• Humanity again attempts to breach the divine (“breaking into Eden”)—the Tower of Babel episode.
• God withdraws, assigning the nations to angels (“sons of God”). Sacred space is now mediated, creating a buffer between God’s consuming presence and fallen humanity (30:41-34:01).

B. Re-Creation of Sacred Space: Abraham to Moses

The Call of Abraham

• Genesis 12: Marks the shift from problem to solution. God’s presence now goes with persons—Abraham, Isaac, Jacob—as nomads; He is “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,” not of a place.
• Altars commemorate theophanies (divine encounters); revisiting these is a return to sacred time.

Between the Patriarchs and Moses

• 500+ years pass between the patriarchs in Egypt and the Exodus.
• God’s Presence in Seir—Archaeology & Scripture:
  • Evidence suggests Yahweh was worshipped in Edom (Seir) by other descendants of Abraham (Shasu of Yahweh), not just in Egypt (43:48-54:19).
  • "Now you know where exactly God was during those 5 to 700 years." – Fr. Andrew (54:13)

C. From Sinai to Solomon: The Tabernacle and Temple

Mosaic Covenant: Tabernacle as Mobile Sacred Space

• Sinai: God’s presence localizes in the Tabernacle, encamped at the center of the people. Rituals of purification (blood and oil) make it possible for God to “dwell” there safely (65:10-75:40).
• Leviticus 10 – Nadab and Abihu’s Death: They die “by holiness” for offering “strange fire” improperly, a dramatic warning (76:05-78:27).
• Ritual & Law: Torah’s commandments aim at maintaining purity so that God can remain among His people safely—different concentric levels of holiness required as one approaches the divine.

The First Temple

• Solomon builds a fixed temple, paralleling pagan architecture and not originally God’s idea. At its consecration, God again graciously fills it with the “theophanic glory cloud” (85:28-88:38).
• If the people become impure, two fates follow: either God “breaks out” (judgment) or withdraws (exile), seen in the stories of Israel and Judah.

The Second Temple & Its Deficiency

• After exile, the second temple is built—but the glory cloud never returns. Functionally, rituals and worship continue, but God’s direct presence is absent (89:51-91:02).
• "God did not come back." – Fr. Andrew (90:57)
• Messianic expectation is thus not only for a political king but for God’s return to dwell among the people.

D. The Fulfillment: The Temple in Flesh and the Descent of the Spirit

Theotokos (Mary) as an “Immaculate Dwelling Place”

• The transition to God’s ultimate dwelling “in the flesh” begins with Mary, who enters the Holy of Holies, is purified, and receives God, fulfilling the temple’s purpose in her person (101:06-107:37).

Christ: The True Temple

• Jesus repeatedly identified as the true and final Temple.
  • John 1:14—“the Word... tabernacled among us” (113:54).
  • John 2:19—"Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up," referring to His body (114:21).
  • Christ’s baptism as “theophanic glory cloud”—Holy Spirit dwells in Him (113:32-113:54).
  • Revelation 21—No temple in the new Jerusalem “for the Lamb is its temple.”

The New Covenant: God’s Presence in the Hearts of Believers

• St. Paul: “Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor 3:16-17, 6:19).
  • Not mere “self-respect” but the real indwelling of God (116:10-117:36).

Pentecost: The Ultimate Rededication

• The Coming of the Holy Spirit: The “Theophanic Glory Cloud” fills the apostles, not a building.
  • “...the Spirit comes and fills not that room, making that room the new temple, but fills them.” – Fr. Stephen (124:38)
• Ananias & Sapphira (Acts 5): Like Nadab and Abihu, they die by holiness for defiling the nascent Church—the new Holy of Holies (127:51-128:18).
• Christian Life: With God’s Spirit dwelling within, the call is to inner holiness, continual repentance, and purification, turning every believer into a living temple (128:19-129:26).

3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Eden & Sacred Space

• “Eden is the place where God is.” – Fr. Stephen (02:37)
• "Being sent out [of Eden] is a mercy…" – Fr. Andrew (09:23)

On “Death by Holiness”

• “If you are in the presence of God and not prepared to be, it’s going to be really bad for you. Not because He’s mad…this is death by holiness.” – Fr. Andrew (13:30)
• "God’s holiness is over and over again compared to fire..." – Fr. Stephen (14:00)

On God's Withdrawal

• “All the action in Scripture is really about this very basic dynamic of dealing with the problem of death by holiness.” – Fr. Andrew (31:30)
• “In our contemporary world, we’ve almost completely lost the idea of sacred space...” – Fr. Stephen (32:01)

On Temples and Worship

• “If your local Orthodox parish was the actual Tabernacle or Temple, you’d just go to the narthex while the priest takes care of the sacrifice, then hands you the meat... You wouldn’t go in the nave, only priests could…” – Fr. Stephen (95:14)
• “I think we need to realize just how shut out from the presence of God people still were in order to understand the reality of what we have now.” – Fr. Stephen (98:13)

On the Theotokos

• “Her womb is going to become the place where God will be.” – Fr. Stephen (107:17)
• “She is being set apart to be God's dwelling place.” – Fr. Stephen (107:37)

On Christ & the New Temple

• “The word became flesh and tabernacled among us, and we saw his glory.” – Fr. Stephen (113:39)
• “He was speaking about the temple of his body…” – Fr. Andrew (114:21)

On Pentecost & Indwelling

• “The Spirit comes and fills not that room... but fills them.” – Fr. Stephen (124:38)
• “Christian life becomes about repentance. It comes about cleansing and purifying and rededicating ourselves. Not a space.” – Fr. Stephen (128:19)

Final Remarks / Application

• "We are to churchify the world... Our task as Christians is not simply to become better, but rather to take paradise into the world, to expand the temple." – Fr. Andrew (132:18)
• “The Holy Spirit comes and writes the law, writes the Torah in our hearts... Keeping the commandments of Christ... always begins by going back into the paradise that’s inside of us.” – Fr. Stephen (134:39; 135:18)
• “If we don’t keep what’s inside of us clean and pure... everything that flows out of us is going to be tainted by whatever is wrong inside.” – Fr. Stephen (137:11)

4. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:07] – Introduction, framing the episode’s theme
• [06:14] – Eden as “sacred space” and Adam/Eve’s intended role
• [09:23] – The meaning of expulsion from Eden
• [13:30] – “Death by holiness” and limits to God’s presence among sinners
• [20:45] – Punishment as God withdrawing His protection
• [30:41] – Tower of Babel and God assigning the nations to angels
• [33:47] – The loss of sacred space in “flat” secular modernity
• [43:48] – Archaeological reference: Yahweh worshipped in Edom (Seir) during the patriarchal gap
• [65:10] – The Tabernacle in the wilderness, the ordering of the camp, and the danger of God’s presence
• [76:05] – Death of Nadab & Abihu as “death by holiness”
• [85:28] – The First Temple, and God filling it
• [89:51] – The Second Temple’s deficiency: no glory cloud, ongoing exile
• [101:06] – The Theotokos as the bridge to God’s new indwelling
• [113:32] – Christ as the new, ultimate Temple
• [124:38] – Pentecost: The Spirit fills the apostles, temples in flesh
• [127:51] – Ananias & Sapphira as Nadab & Abihu of the New Testament
• [129:32] – Final practical/pastoral application

5. Tone & Style

The hosts combine scholarly rigor with humor and approachable language. They reference pop culture (e.g., “Theophanic Glory Cloud will be the name of my next band”), joke about “cosplay reenactments” of the Israelites in the wilderness, and anchor their theology in pastoral application. Their dynamic is conversational, often teasing or riffing off one another.

6. Takeaways for Listeners

• Orthodox Christian tradition sees the drama of salvation as a continual answer to the question “Where is God?”—from Eden, through the Tabernacle and Temple, and now in Christ and the hearts of the faithful by the Holy Spirit.
• The movement from external sacred space to internal, personal holiness is central to understanding Pentecost and Christian life.
• Maintaining our own “temple” within is not optional; repentance and purification are necessary for encountering God’s presence safely and fruitfully.
• Participation in God’s presence empowers Christians to bring that presence (expand paradise) outward, churchifying the world through holiness, love, and evangelism.
• Practical holiness and interior purification are not legalistic burdens but essential for life with God and for fulfilling humanity’s original vocation.

7. For Further Listening & Engagement

Questions raised by callers:

• On the nature of the Tree of Knowledge (57:00-58:42)
• Languages after Babel & Biblical genealogies (58:46-64:27)
• Corruption of the angelic patrons of nations (68:22-72:53)

Concluding Pastoral Encouragement:

• Attend to inner transformation as the foundation for all outward Christian action.
• Cultivate sacred space within and strive to participate in God’s ongoing work of sanctifying all creation.

Listen to the full episode for a deep, often witty journey through the sacred geography of salvation—from Paradise to Pentecost.