The Lord of Spirits — Fall of Man Part 2: Crouching Sin, Hidden Dragon
Podcast: The Lord of Spirits
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: July 29, 2022
Episode Purpose:
To explore the story of Cain (Genesis 4) as the archetypal sinner in Orthodox Christian tradition, trace the emergence of sin as a living, demonic force after the Fall, and discuss the broader consequences for civilization, spiritual life, and the struggle for self-mastery.
Brief Overview
This episode, the second in a three-part series on the Fall of Man, focuses on “sin” as it enters the world—distinct from the entrance of death (discussed last episode). Using the story of Cain, the hosts investigate how Second Temple Jewish sources, the Church Fathers, and the Orthodox tradition focus on Cain as the archetype of the sinner, sin as an active force (“hidden dragon”), and the foundational effects on society and humanity. The discussion weaves through biblical exegesis, church history, patristic theology, and contemporary spiritual application.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Three Falls, Three Emphases in Tradition
[03:06–14:02]
- The "Fall of Man" is more complex than the singular event often described in Western Christian tradition.
- Church Fathers and Second Temple Judaism speak of three main “falls”:
- Expulsion from Paradise (Adam/Eve -> Death)
- Cain & Sin (today’s focus)
- Tower of Babel & Demonic Domination (next episode)
- Church Fathers and Second Temple Judaism speak of three main “falls”:
- St. Irenaeus: Focuses on the Genesis 6 events—the giants and corruption.
- Eusebius: Focuses on Babel—the division and domination by principalities.
- Augustine: Focuses on Adam’s personal fall—this comes to dominate Western theology, partly by accident due to historical/language shifts.
“If you tried to base your whole Christian faith purely on the writings of one church father, any church father, you’re going to run into trouble.”
— Fr. Stephen [09:00]
2. The Genesis of Sin: Cain, Not Adam
[11:58–14:00]
- Adam’s sin is real (“He did sin”), but Genesis does not use the word “sin” for Adam’s action.
- Cain is the first person in scripture to be associated with “sin” as an archetypal sinner—someone on the wrong side of the Last Judgment.
“… Adam is not the figure in Scripture who is primarily identified with the origin of sinfulness as an archetypal sinner… That is Cain, who we’re going to be talking about…”
— Fr. Stephen [11:59]
3. Cain’s Origins & “Serpent Seed” Theories Debunked
[13:14-21:44]
- Cain is the literal, physical offspring of Adam and Eve—this is key to the narrative.
- The “serpent seed” theory (Cain as literal offspring of the devil/the serpent) is a fringe belief with no scriptural basis, but pops up in Pentecostal-adjacent circles and some scholarly speculation.
- Academic “hermeneutic of suspicion” (e.g., claims that Yahweh fathered Cain) is dismissed: it ignores the plain meaning of the text and basic logic.
"Very obviously in the text, the actual text that actually exists that you could actually read. He is Adam's son. And it's important in the narrative that he's Adam's son."
— Fr. Stephen [44:44]
4. Sacrifice & the Problem with Cain’s Offering
[22:27–33:37]
- Cain’s sacrifice is rejected—not for technical reasons (wrong material)—but because of his character and deeds:
- 1 John 3:12: “Why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous.”
- Old Testament theme: Rightness of heart trumps technical ritual correctness; God desires repentance, not empty sacrifice.
“This is a basic biblical principle, and that’s what we’re getting laid out here in Genesis 4 already…”
— Fr. Stephen [33:10]
5. Sin as a Demonic Force ("Crouching at the Door")
[36:00–43:14]
- Sin is personified as an Akkadian demon: a predatory entity lurking, seeking to master humans (rovetz).
- Sin vs. sins:
- Paul most often uses “sin” (singular): as a power or force, not merely actions.
- Sin is “crouching at your door”—it wants to master you; you must master it.
“It’s not sins. It’s not breaking a bunch of rules… It’s sin, and it’s being talked about like it’s this sort of demonic beast.”
— Fr. Stephen [37:03]
- Sin “enters the world” through Adam; Cain is the first human it masters.
6. The Curse of Cain and the Birth of Civilization
[43:34–60:26]
- Cain’s curse is more severe than Adam’s:
- For Adam: “Cursed is the ground because of you”
- For Cain: “You are cursed from the ground”
- Cain is so cut off from creation he cannot farm; so he builds a city for survival (Eridu—the first city in Sumerian tradition).
- Founding the city: The biblical text is interacting polemically with Near Eastern tradition:
- For Sumerians, Eridu is a divine foundation; for Genesis, city life is the result of sin, violence, and alienation.
“This was not a great moment in civilization. This was not when the divine came to earth... This is Cain murdered his brother. He's the first murderer. He's the first great sinner. He had to go on the lam, and he built this city. It’s like a hideout…”
— Fr. Stephen [58:13]
7. Cain in Later Tradition: The Exemplar of Evil
[63:26–90:15]
- Cain’s legacy in Second Temple Judaism, patristics, and New Testament:
- More prominent as an archetype of evil than Adam.
- Wisdom of Solomon 10: Calls Cain “the unrighteous” whose actions began a downward spiral toward the Flood.
- Josephus: Cain not only did not repent, he spread evil—teaching violence, greed, commerce by deception; inventing property boundaries and exploitation.
- Cain as the “first heretic”—his self-willed road leads to idolatry and (in patristic and Second Temple thought) ultimately to the birth of giants and further demonic contamination.
“He is incredibly evil... So not only has he been sort of mastered by sin, but now through him, sin is mastering others.”
— Fr. Stephen [69:39]
- City of God (Augustine):
- Cain as founder of the “City of Man,” a society built on pride, violence, and alienation.
- Contrasted with Seth’s line (the righteous path), culminating in Enoch who is assumed into heaven.
8. Ritual Impurity, Unremovable Curse, and Consequences
[100:00–107:14]
- The word for Cain’s curse (aios): denotes a curse/unremovable ritual impurity associated with murder in sacred space.
- No ritual can remove it—though repentance can bring forgiveness and sanctity.
- Analogy to Christian practice: There are certain actions (e.g., clergy killing anyone) which, though forgiveable, have permanent consequences for service (see canon law, and stories like St. Basil’s verdict that “you can be a saint, but you can’t be a priest again”).
“Curse is the consequence of sin. Right. And forgiveness does not erase consequences…”
— Fr. Stephen [107:37]
9. Imaging God or the Devil: Theosis vs. Demonosis
[112:17–118:18]
- Sonship and image-bearing: You become a “son of” someone/something by exhibiting their qualities and works.
- “Sons of God” = image of God (theosis)
- “Sons of the devil” = image of the devil (de-monosis)
- Cain is called “of the evil one” (1 John 3:12)—he becomes the son of the devil by doing devilish works (murder, lies, teaching evil).
- This is not an ontological, predetermined status (contra Gnosticism) but an existential, moral outcome: Cultivated by our choices.
“He became the son of the devil by what he did... a lot of forms of Gnosticism, for example, divide humanity into sons of light and sons of darkness. And those are like ontological categories... That’s not how this works...”
— Fr. Stephen [116:53/117:33]
10. Sin, the Passions, and Spiritual Warfare
[122:23–137:43]
- Sin is not merely breaking the rules but being overpowered by demonic/passionate forces—the ultimate spiritual warfare.
- Self-mastery (“do good, and it will not master you”) is the essence of Christian morality—not “maintenance of a code,” but active resistance.
- Repentance is not just remorse but transformation, fighting against being remade in the devil’s image.
“Christian ‘morality’ is not about maintaining some kind of code of conduct. It's about self mastery.”
— Fr. Stephen [135:03]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On church fathers: “If you base your whole faith on St. Gregory of Nyssa, you're going to end up with a distorted view... Not because there’s something wrong with St. Gregory ... because that’s not how Christianity works.”
- On Bible-reading hermeneutics: “Come to the text and try to discover what the text is saying. If we read the text closely, we'll see why one was accepted and the other wasn't.”
- On the demonic nature of sin: “Sin is crouching at your door. It's not your sins, it's sin. And it's not just a choice you make, it's coming for you.”
- On civilization & Cain: “This was not a divine bestowal, not a crowning moment, but the outgrowth of sin—someone running from God.”
- On permanent consequences: "There are things that you can do for which you can never return to the altar, no matter the repentance—you can still become a saint."
- On demonosis: “The powers of evil are not just out there, but transformative—making people into their own image, just as God does in theosis.”
- Modern spiritual relevance: “Our morality is spiritual warfare. For Cain, there wasn’t a moral choice to murder... There was a power come upon him, and he had a choice to fight or yield.”
Important Timestamps & Segments
- [03:06] — The three falls in Orthodox tradition
- [11:59] — Cain as the archetype of the sinner
- [22:27] — Discussion of Cain’s offering, sacrifice, and why it was rejected
- [36:00] — The personification of sin (“crouching at your door”)
- [43:34] — The escalation of the curse from Adam to Cain; implications for civilization
- [58:00] — Eridu, the first city: Biblical/Eastern traditions contrasted
- [63:26] — Legacy of Cain and his enduring influence
- [74:55] — Cain as the founder of heresy and cults of desire
- [112:17] — Imaging God vs. devils: Theosis vs. demonosis
- [122:23] — Self-mastery, spiritual warfare, and ongoing transformation
- [143:16] — Practical application: Spiritual formation as training through “small things”
Concluding Reflections
Both hosts stress that the story of Cain is not a dusty ancient myth but a living reality, illustrating how everyday human choices—especially around self-mastery and repentance vs. yielding to passions and desires—determine what we become: either more like God (theosis) or like the demons (demonosis). The road to each destiny is shaped by innumerable small steps, not singular dramatic moments.
“If you say to yourself, ‘I don’t need to be obedient in this little thing,’ you are training yourself to be disobedient in great things... That’s how it always goes.”
— Fr. Andrew [143:16]
Flow & Tone
The tone is energetic and witty, sometimes sardonic, deeply scriptural, patristic, and strongly focused on practical, lived spirituality. The hosts frequently turn from ancient exegesis and speculation to very concrete, contemporary spiritual challenges—drawing a direct and relevant line from Cain’s story to daily life, spiritual struggle, and the communal nature of Christian living.
End of Summary
Next episode: The third fall: Tower of Babel—demonic domination and the fragmentation of the nations.
Questions and interactions: The hosts invite listeners to reflect not just on abstract theology, but on their own daily training for self-mastery, the cultivation of repentance, and how civilization shapes (or deforms) the human soul.