The Lord of Spirits Podcast

Episode: Fall of Man Part 3: The Gate to Heaven

Date: August 11, 2022

Overview

In this third installment of their “Fall of Man” series, Fathers Andrew Stephen Damick and Stephen De Young explore the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11) as both an ancient historical event and a foundational spiritual moment. They situate the episode in the Orthodox understanding of the seen and unseen worlds, focusing on how Babel/Babylon stands as the prototype of empire and the locus of the division of the nations—not merely as a punishment, but as the establishment of a spiritual order involving the so-called "gods of the nations." The hosts unravel both the historical context of Babylon and theological implications, culminating in what this episode means for the restored destiny of humanity: theosis and participation in God’s rule over creation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Babel and Babylon: The Historical and Linguistic Context

- (03:31–15:15)

• Babel is Babylon: The biblical “Babel” (Genesis 11) is not a separate place from Babylon. Both refer to the same city, with Babel being the Hebrew rendering.

  “Babel equals Babylon. That's a really important identification to make here. These are not two different places as far as the biblical text is concerned.” (14:33–14:37, Fr. Andrew)

• ‘Gate of the Gods’: The Sumerian name for Babylon (gun/kun-digura(k)) and Akkadian (bab-eli; bab=gate, el=god) both literally mean “Gate of the Gods,” reflecting the city's spiritual ambition.

• The identification of Babel/Babylon is not just historical, but polemical in scripture—the Hebrew purposely puns “Babel” from the root for “confuse” (bilbel), trash-talking Babylon’s claim to divinity:

  “This is not the place of the gate of the Gods. This is the place of confusion... It's a correction.” (19:27–19:41, Fr. Stephen)

• Founding: Archaeological and ancient literary sources (Sumerian, Akkadian, Greek, Babylonian) all put Babylon's founding in the mid-23rd century BC, aligning closely at approx. 2200–2300 BC.

2. Ancient Near Eastern Context of the Tower

- (33:31–47:10)

• First World Empire: Under Amorite rulers like Hammurabi, Babylon creates the world’s first empire—a cosmopolitan, interconnected, “Golden Age” civilization reliant on both spiritual and technological claims (antiquity, knowledge from the gods, etc.).

• Bronze Age Collapse: Babylon’s eventual fall instigates the collapse of interconnected ancient civilizations—a true “apocalypse” (in the literal sense of an unveiling/rupture of the world order), after which Judges and early Kings are “post-apocalyptic” narratives.

  “That part of history is literally post-apocalyptic. They are in the ruins of this Bronze Age civilization.” (44:15–44:39, Fr. Stephen)

• Symbolic Empire: Babylon represents all successive world empires that unite humanity in opposition to God, a motif which foreshadows biblical references to “Babylon” (e.g. the whore of Babylon in Revelation).

3. The Tower Story: Spiritual Agenda and Theological Reading

- (53:51–59:36)

• Not about height: The “tower reaching heaven” is symbolic. Ancient people were not so naïve as to think they could build to God by physical means. The story is about spiritual presumption—bringing God down to humanity’s purposes.

  “The problem’s not that they think they could build something tall enough to reach heaven. The problem is that they're trying to bring God down.” (58:18–58:30, Fr. Stephen)

• Idolatry, not Salvation: The effort is about controlling/divinizing the world for human glory rather than seeking communion with God.

4. God's Response: Dispersal & Allotment of the Nations

- (90:06–102:05)

• No Second Flood: Instead of destroying humanity as in the Flood, God disperses and “exiles” the people—this sets the stage for the division of humanity into nations, each allotted to spiritual powers (“gods”).

• Deuteronomy 32 and Table of Nations:

  • God divides the nations “according to the number of the sons of God” (=angelic beings, Deut. 32:8, confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint), while Israel remains God’s own portion.

  “This is the Most High God, right? Yahweh gives to...the nations...according to the number of the sons of God, of which there were 70 or 72.” (94:00–94:31, Fr. Stephen)

• Falling Away: The nations, rather than adhering to the good governance of their angelic overseers, fall into idolatry—worshiping lesser spirits (shedim) and even fallen angels, leading to spiritual slavery and all the evil associated with it (cannibalism, human sacrifice, etc., e.g. Eusebius, Dem. Evang. 4).

5. Universal Pattern: Babylon as Archetype of Empire & Rebellion

- (80:03–86:33)

• Babylon as Principle, Not Just Place: Throughout the Bible, especially Revelation, “Babylon” functions as the ideal type for every empire that raises itself against God, ending in a final new Babylon yet to come—but always a present reality.

  “There will be a last world empire...but there's already been a first, and there's a whole bunch in between, and they're all Babylon because they're all founded on that same spirit.” (81:49–82:05, Fr. Stephen)

• Empire as Attempted Heaven on Earth: The sin is not mere civilization-building, but the self-deification and attempted control of God for national/imperial purposes.

6. Philosophical and Orthodox Understanding of History and Truth

- (62:06–79:23)

• No Myth/History Dichotomy: Ancient and medieval readers did not see Genesis 1–11 as “myth” and Genesis 12ff as “history”—these are modern distinctions. For the original audience, Genesis 11 is as much history as the books that follow.

• Scripture’s Truth is Multi-layered: Truth in Genesis (as in all Scripture) isn't limited to the modern materialist's “did it happen this way as a video recording?” but is a deeper, theologically rich, multi-aspect reality, encompassing spiritual, philosophical, and practical truths.

7. Non-Biblical and Patristic Parallels

- (108:13–117:52)

• Pagan Confirmation: Plato (Critias, Laws) describes nations being allotted to divine powers—“demons” (Greek: daimones)—echoing the biblical account, but seeing it as a lost Golden Age.

• Patristic Teaching: St. Dionysius the Areopagite, Eusebius of Caesarea, and Philo of Alexandria all affirm the idea that the nations were ruled by invisible powers (originally angels), with the nations’ turn to idolatry sometimes due to the angelic overseers’ own falls (see Psalm 82, Deuteronomy 32, and Daniel 10).

• Eusebius of Caesarea: Offers a sweeping narrative in which Babel is the central “fall,” leading to demonic dominion from which Christ comes to liberate humanity.

8. The Goal: Theosis and the Destiny of Humanity

- (167:28–171:11)

• Land Allotment as Spiritual Template: The detailed allotments of land in the Torah (Numbers, Joshua, etc.) are signs pointing to a greater fulfillment: the eventual inheritance of divine sonship.

• Becoming the “Stars”—Replacing the Fallen Powers:

  • God’s promise that Abraham's descendants will be “as the stars of heaven” (Genesis 15:5, Daniel 12:3) is a promise of theosis—that humanity will, through Christ, take the place of the fallen “gods of the nations” and rule with God.
  • New Testament: Christ promises the apostles and, by extension, the saints, thrones (Matt 19:28, Rev 3:21, 4:4, 5:10, 20:4) to rule and judge with Him.

• Creative Vocation: The redeemed humanity's final destiny is not passivity but a dynamic, creative share in God’s own governance and the reordering of creation.

  “The life of the age to come is not just a bunch of glowing beings standing up on clouds or sitting on thrones and giving orders...It is dynamic because part of what it means to be created beings is that we're dynamic...it'll be a creative life, a building life.” (175:27–176:03, Fr. Andrew)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ancient Etymology:

  “Ancient literature is full of bogus etymologies...the idea that languages...had a common Ur language was not a thing that occurred to most people.” (16:09–16:35, Fr. Andrew)

• Babylon as Correction of Empire:

  “This is a deliberate thing. This is not the place of the gate of the Gods. This is the place of confusion.” (19:27–19:39, Fr. Stephen)

• On the Human Desire for Dominion:

  “Conquest itself...is not always necessarily bad...[but] What Christ is talking about there is not setting up an empire on this earth—business, political, military, whatever popularity, likes as an influencer. What Christ is talking about...is...to conquer ourselves...Our soul is the territory that we need to conquer.” (179:58–182:05, Fr. Stephen)

• Babylon as Ongoing Principle:

  "Babylon isn't just here in Genesis at the beginning...but Babylon is seen as sort of the principle behind all world empires." (80:08–80:21, Fr. Stephen)

• On Praying for the Dead:

  “There's not really a way that things work. Right. But we know that our prayer for the departed is a continued expression of our unity with each other.” (126:10–126:33, Fr. Stephen, responding to a caller)

Important Timestamps/Suggested Listening Guide

• Babel = Babylon, Linguistics & Sumerian/Akkadian Context: 03:30–15:15
• Founding of Babylon and its Historical Impact: 21:03–47:10
• Biblical & Theological Reading of Babel Story: 53:51–59:36
• Babylon as Spiritual “System” and Empire: 80:03–86:33
• Patristic and Pagan (Plato, Eusebius) Parallels: 108:13–147:07
• Land Allotments, Theosis, and Human Destiny: 150:10–171:11
• Final Reflections / Conquest of Self & Theosis: 176:45–185:53

Concluding Thoughts

The episode reframes the Tower of Babel not as a fable about language but as the archetype for fallen empire—humanity’s attempted shortcut to godhood and domination, rebuffed by God’s establishment of an order (angelic “gods of the nations”) that ultimately failed due to humanity’s collusion with evil powers. Yet through Abraham, Israel, and ultimately Christ, the dispelled nations are reclaimed: the destiny of humanity is to achieve theosis—to become with Christ “the new stars of heaven,” co-ruling with God in dynamic creativity, as was originally intended.

The challenge for each listener: Is empire still our model—seeking to bring God down to serve our goals, or will we join Christ in conquering ourselves, that we might rule with Him and become the renewed “sons of God,” as was meant from the beginning?

For further study:

• Genesis 10–11, Deuteronomy 32, Psalm 82, Daniel 12, Revelation 3–5, 20
• Eusebius of Caesarea, Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 4
• Philo of Alexandria, The Special Laws
• Plato, Critias and Laws

Next episode preview:
Stay tuned for an exploration of “Thunder Gods” and the recurring biblical and spiritual theme of God’s defeat of the powers.

Hosts:
Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, Fr. Stephen De Young
Podcast by Ancient Faith Ministries
Summarized by [Assistant]