The Lord of Spirits Podcast
Episode: Fiend Folio
Date: October 25, 2024
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen DeYoung
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition—Demons, Daemons, Genii, and the Human Spirit
Episode Overview
This annual Halloween episode dives deep into the murky world of demons, daemons, genii, incubi, succubi, guardian spirits, and their ancient and Christian interpretations. The Fathers break down how demons were understood in the Greco-Roman world, Second Temple Judaism, and the early Church, exploring the boundaries between mythology, scripture, and lived spiritual experience. They also answer listener questions about the spiritual neutrality of things, the reality of guardian angels, and the persisting relevance of demonic phenomena.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
I. Demons in the Greco-Roman World
a. Etymology & Origins
- The Greek "daemon" originally meant a divider or apportioner, entangled with fate, territory, and destiny.
"Daemon comes from a proto-Indo-European root that means dividers... sharing out, apportioning spoils, gifts." (Fr. Andrew, 07:24)
- In Greek mythology, daemons are the lingering spirits (often of heroes) between gods and mortals, sometimes attached to places, families, or individuals.
b. Heroes, Temples & Wandering Spirits
- Hesiod describes heroes who, once dead, become daemons attached to locales or shrines.
- Temples were dual: to a god and a local hero's (now daemon's) resting place, anchoring their otherwise wandering influence (17:44-20:01).
- Wandering, unanchored daemons were associated with ruin and danger—unhappy spirits that could wreak havoc.
c. Daemons as Guardian Spirits
- Socrates famously spoke of his personal daemonion—a tutelary spirit offering inspiration and protection (24:07+).
- For pagans, possession by a daemon could be positive, even desirable—a source of wisdom or guidance, not always malevolent.
"So this is sort of a guardian demon... this is a guardian devil. And in Greek religion... daemonis occupy this realm between gods and humans." (Fr. Stephen, 27:00)
d. Fuzzy Categories
- Ancient pagans didn't classify sharply: gods sometimes blurred into daemons, and vice-versa. The border was porous and poetic, not scientific (28:21-30:08).
II. Roman Genii and Guardian Demons
a. Genii & Junii
- Roman genius (pl. genii) and junii (for women) were spirits attached to persons, places, or even features like cities and mountains.
- These spirits could be honored, placated, and sacrificed to—sometimes out of fear for their wrath or mischief (36:04-42:24).
"This is just, you know, having to make all these offerings so that your genius doesn't become mad and kill you or... get it to stop driving you to crimes." (Fr. Stephen, 42:41)
b. Socio-Political Realities
- Whether one had a genius attached depended on social status: not all humans were considered full "persons" eligible for tutelary spirits (24:05+).
c. Decline & Christian Reversal
- As Christianity rose, Theodosius outlawed offerings to Genii, and Christian baptismal exorcisms directly targeted these personal demons, replacing them with guardian angels (47:43-50:02).
"The pagans who were coming there had some demon yoked to their life... and that was being exorcised." (Fr. Stephen, 48:49) "The demon that's been influencing your life is now replaced with an angel who's going to guide you better..." (Fr. Stephen, 49:31)
III. Demons in Second Temple Judaism & Christian Tradition
a. Jewish Contexts
- Second Temple Judaism believed demons weren't merely rebellious angels, but the spirits of the dead Nephilim (offspring of fallen angels and human women), cursed to wander (76:27+).
- These spirits were the source of the "unclean spirits" Jesus exorcised in the Gospels.
b. Early Christian Consensus
- Early Christians like Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, and Commodianus taught that the "gods" of the nations—Zeus, Poseidon, etc.—were actually fallen angels or the disembodied spirits of giants, now demons (89:16-93:14).
"...they afterwards subdued the human race... ascribed them to Zeus himself and to those who are accounted to be his very offspring..." (Justin Martyr, read by Fr. Andrew, 90:34)
c. Development in the Fathers
- Later fathers such as Chrysostom and Augustine rejected a literal physical mating between angels and humans, but acknowledged the influence of fallen angels on human vice and wickedness (100:22+).
- Chrysostom viewed becoming a demon as the result of living like one, not dying violently.
Notable Synthesis:
The “Lord of Spirits” podcast proposes reconciling early and later patristic positions—seeing the demonic origin accounts not as strictly literal or biological, but as descriptive of intense human spiritual-performative participation with the demonic, especially via ritualistic and sexual sin.
IV. Incubi, Succubi, and Demon Sex (Explicit Section Begins: 128:30)
a. Ancient Roots & Medieval Fixation
- Sumerian myth: masculine Lilu and feminine Lilitu/Lilith as sexual predators of humans; Gilgamesh depicted as offspring of such a spirit.
- The western Christian tradition, especially from Augustine onward, was preoccupied with the mechanics of demonic sexual interaction: incubi (male), succubi (female), demons who seduced humans at night, spawning various legends and anxieties (131:10-134:29).
b. Augustine, Aquinas, & King James—Wild Theories
- Augustine rejected angel-human hybrids but acknowledged widespread testimony of sexual encounters with spirits (Fauns, Satyrs, etc.) (135:16-137:28).
- Thomas Aquinas proposed that demons could collect semen from men, transfer it to women, and thus father children by proxy (140:22-141:14).
- King James (author of the KJV) theorized that demons could animate dead bodies for such acts (143:03).
"They're trying to explain the reality of demons getting women pregnant..." (Fr. Stephen, 142:09)
c. Why Bring This Up?
- Not to sensationalize, but to show:
- The seriousness with which tradition takes spiritual encounters.
- The degree to which theories (however bizarre) reflect attempts to reckon with real experience and scripture.
d. Cross-Cultural Parallels
- Similar succubus-like legends exist globally:
- The Mare (origin of “nightmare”) in Germanic lore (150:23)
- The Karina in North African/Arabic tradition (151:10)
- The paralysnik in Ukrainian folklore (152:58)
V. Listener Q&A, Memorable Quotes & Practical Reflections
On Neutrality (Timestamps: 54:57, 63:01)
- Fr. Andrew:
"Obedience to God is actually way broader and more inclusive than disobedience... the questions of good and evil are about human participation."
- Fr. Stephen:
"It's important that we don't confuse ontology and ethics... neutral is wrong because it still places it on the moral compass. Good and evil are ethical categories that we use to describe actions, not things."
Guardian Angels (66:03+)
- Rachel from Ohio shares her New Age journey—featuring “genius” spirits, addictive experiences, and self-love gone dark—now liberated by Orthodoxy.
- Fr. Stephen:
“Part of the prayer to the guardian angel is to try to help attune ourselves to that guidance… It’s not instead of the Holy Spirit… It's both-and.”
- Fr. Andrew:
“A guardian angel can’t go against your will… if you’re like, 'I’m going to sin,' you know, what can he do?”
On Fair Folk and “Neutral” Spirits (113:53)
- Fr. Andrew:
"[‘Neutral spirits’] can only exist in a pagan conception of the universe where there is not an Almighty God who created all things and therefore has claim over all things... Their function within the story is what matters..."
- Fr. Stephen:
"Perceived neutrality is because something that was malignant has been made more benign without outright Christianizing it."
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
- On Demons in Greek Religion:
"A daemon is kind of like a species." (Fr. Stephen, 15:27)
- On the limits of categorization:
“You take a poem that’s in a Word document, you try and import it into a spreadsheet, you’re gonna get weird results, man.” (Fr. Stephen, 29:53)
- On Christian baptism:
“The demon that’s been influencing your life is now replaced with an angel who's going to guide you better... on a personal level.” (Fr. Stephen, 49:31)
- On the practical upshot of the entire episode:
"The Christian understanding of the human person... is that he is permeable to the spiritual world." (Fr. Andrew, 154:38)
- On spiritual combat:
“We have authority. We're on offense—importantly, this includes the human monsters out there... we're going on the offensive against the spirits that have led those people... that's the enemy." (Fr. Stephen, 164:27-165:47)
- On the goal of the struggle:
"Christ gives freedom from all of that... not only... frees you, but exalts you." (Fr. Andrew, 159:01)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:00-06:00 – Introduction, “parental advisory,” jokes about Smurfs and demons
- 07:09-24:00 – Origins and development of daemons (Greece & Rome)
- 27:00-36:00 – The concept of personal, guardian demons/daemons
- 42:24-50:02 – Christian exorcism as liberation from pagan spirits/genii; baptismal prayers
- 54:08-64:49 – Listener Q&A: On neutrality in creation, distinguishing use and essence
- 66:17-71:43 – Guardian angels vs. daemons/genii: function and relationship
- 72:51-93:14 – Second Temple Judaism, Nephilim, giants, and patristic interpretations
- 103:06-108:49 – Reconciliation of early and later patristic thinking on demons/nephilim
- 128:32-149:24 – Incubi, succubi, demon sex, Augustine, Aquinas, and King James
- 150:23-153:36 – Succubus traditions in folklore worldwide
- 154:19-end – Practical/spiritual summation, call to action, closing
Tone & Style
The conversation is irreverently humorous, scholarly, vivid, and unflinching—even in diving into “taboo” or lurid spiritual subjects. The Fathers consistently anchor every digression in deep theological reflection and a pastoral concern for listeners’ spiritual lives.
Conclusion
The episode’s ultimate message: Human beings are always in relationship with the unseen world—there is no neutral ground. Through Christ, we are freed and exalted, not enslaved. All the ancient and bizarre stories about spirits—including the wildest stories in Christian tradition—speak to the fundamental truth: we are called to communion with God, not to be enthralled by the dark spirits of this age.
Final blessing:
"Thank you. Like Kirok, Good night and may God bless you all." (Fr. Andrew, 169:17)
For Further Engagement
- To ask questions or connect, visit lordofspirits@ancientfaith.com or the Lord of Spirits Facebook group.
- Interested in a deeper dive? Check out Father DeYoung’s class, “Tolkien, Gods, Monsters & Myth” at orthodoxstudies.org.
Whether you're a curious listener, a spiritual seeker, or a scholar, this densely packed episode not only catalogs ancient, pagan, and Christian demonology, but offers a profound meditation on spiritual freedom, human dignity, and the ongoing drama between the seen and the unseen.