The Lord of Spirits Podcast

Episode: "From Ur of the Chaldeans"

Date: September 10, 2021
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Main Theme: The world Abraham lived in—its history, spiritual landscape, and how his story is foundational for Orthodox Christian understanding of the seen and unseen world.

Episode Overview

This first-anniversary episode delves deep into the background, world, and meaning of the biblical patriarch Abraham, focusing on the epoch from which he came—the sophisticated Sumerian civilization of Ur—dispelling modern misconceptions about the so-called “primitive” ancient world. Abraham’s context, the nature of God’s promises to him, and how these events prefigure and illuminate the Christian Gospel and salvation history are thoroughly explored. The hosts emphasize the profound interplay between material history (cities, empires, customs) and the spiritual reality in which Abraham’s story is embedded.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: The Spiritual & Material World

• Opening Reflection: The world is "haunted by spirits," and Orthodox Tradition maintains the reality of both the seen (material) and unseen (spiritual) realms. The podcast’s aim is to get listeners to see how intertwined these are in the biblical tradition.

• Abraham as Lens: Abraham’s story becomes a key for understanding God’s plan for reuniting the seen and unseen, and reclaiming humanity from the dominion of hostile spiritual powers.

2. The Ancient World Abraham Inhabited (03:34 – 22:55)

The Sumerian Renaissance and the Ur III Period

• Not “Primitive” at All:
  • Abraham lived "as far before Christ as we are after Christ" (~2000 B.C.).
  • "We tend to not realize just how organized and efficient and interconnected the ancient world was." – Fr. Stephen (04:01)
• Sumer & Akkad:
  • Early city-states, ruled by "god-kings" who were also priests; cities like Ur, Akkad were both political and religious centers (06:28).
  • Cultural and linguistic complexity: Sumerian (language isolate) and Semitic/Akkadian speakers lived side by side, influencing one another (10:20–11:11).
• Political Flux and Empires:
  • Civilizations often fell not to each other, but to invading outsiders; the third dynasty of Ur emerges after such cycles.
  • Ur-Nammu (pronounced "Er-NAM-moo") issued law codes and ruled over a vast, efficient, bureaucratic empire with trade as far as Anatolia, Iran, and India (14:51–18:44).
• Size and Sophistication:
  • Sumerian empire covered much of the ancient Middle East with a population of approx. 1.5 million, out of a global population of ~27 million (20:18).

The City of Ur

• Geography & Archaeology:
  • Once coastal, now miles inland due to millennia of geological change; famed for its great ziggurat, still visible today (23:12–25:10).
• Religious Center:
  • Center of moon-god worship (Nanna/Sin). “The actual moon in the sky is one of the bodies of Nanna, as is the idol on the ziggurat.” – Fr. Stephen (32:27)
  • Ziggurat as "gate of the gods"—intended to draw down the deity to dwell among humans (30:12–31:20).
• Later Misnomer "Ur of the Chaldeans":
  • The biblical phrase is anachronistic—Chaldeans appear 1500 years later; it's a theological link to Babylon and the Tower of Babel story (33:26–36:38).

Memorable Quote:
"The modern world doesn't acknowledge, but is nevertheless haunted by spirits and angels, demons and saints." – Fr. Andrew (00:22)

3. Abraham in the Context of the Babel Story (57:58 – 62:14)

• Three Falls & Babel’s Aftermath:
  • The Tower of Babel sets up the division of humanity and places the nations under the governance of lesser, ultimately rebellious spiritual beings.
  • Abram (later Abraham) appears next, shown as someone who retained fidelity to the Most High God, despite the nations’ alienation (60:34).
• Abraham’s Calling:
  • “There's no introduction—it's just Yahweh said to Abram, which indicates he already knows Him.” – Fr. Andrew (60:28)
  • Abraham as a remnant faithful to God when the nations and even his own family (his father Terah) are not (62:06–63:05; Joshua 24:2).

4. Promises to Abraham: Material & Spiritual Dimensions (67:05 – 85:33)

The Core Promises

• Descendants as Numerous as the Stars (Genesis 15, 22, 26; 68:18–69:12)
  • Quantitative: "Like the sand on the seashore"—many nations would come from Abraham.
  • Qualitative: "So will your seed be"—not just numerous, but like the stars themselves; i.e., destined for deification, to replace the fallen lesser gods (70:45).
• Displacing Hostile Powers:
  • Abraham’s "seed" would "possess the gates of his enemies"—a significant claim about spiritual and material authority (72:34–73:20).
• Proof through Physical Fulfillment:
  • The promise has a down payment: the Abrahamic nations (Israel, Edom, Moab, Ammon, etc.) drive out the giants (demonized clans), which is a sign guaranteeing the ultimate spiritual fulfillment (80:12–84:15).
  • "The material element is the sign of the spiritual element." – Fr. Stephen (79:53)

Dispelling Modern Misreadings

• Against Dispensationalism:
  • The “land promise” was already fulfilled in Joshua’s time, as attested by Joshua himself (83:24–84:13). The true fulfillment is spiritual: the deification of Abraham’s faithful descendants and their victory over the powers.

5. Abraham, Isaac, and the Sacrifice: Prefiguring Christ (89:24 – 130:57)

Isaac as the “Unique Son” (Monogenēs)

• Seed/Heir Language:
  • The term “seed” (Greek: sperma) is singular and plural; St. Paul in Galatians 3:16 points to its singularity (“and to your seed, who is Christ”) (92:32).
  • Isaac is the “unique” (monogenēs) son—prefiguring Christ as the unique Son of God, through whom all the promises flow (100:28–101:22).

The “Binding of Isaac” (Akedah): More than a Moral Dilemma

• Ancient and Second Temple Focus:
  • The focus is not Abraham’s moral trial, but rather on Isaac as a voluntary, silent participant—“his silence becomes emblematic of obedience and self-offering” (114:42).
  • The story became foundational for interpreting the Suffering Servant in Isaiah as referring first to Isaac (116:54), and then, by extension, to the Messiah—including in late Jewish and Christian exegesis.
• Ram in the Thicket: Sacrificial Typology:
  • The ram is not (as in Reformation/penal substitutionary theory) a substitute to satisfy God’s wrath; it is a stand-in whose death prefigures all later Temple sacrifices and ultimately Christ (124:31).
  • The mountain is Moriah, the future site of the Temple, reinforcing its significance (123:10–123:30).

Hebrews 11: Theological Summary

• St. Paul (author of Hebrews) interprets Abraham's willingness to offer Isaac as faith in God’s power to raise from the dead (127:25). Isaac is “received back” as a figure of resurrection, pointing forward to Christ: “He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.” (127:25)

Memorable Quote:
"Abraham realized that he would receive the promises through the death and resurrection of the unique son." – Fr. Stephen (129:41)

Marriage to Rebekah: Icon of Restored Humanity

• Isaac’s marriage (to his cousin, a Mesopotamian and not a Canaanite) is the only “love” marriage explicitly mentioned in Genesis—a symbolic ideal rather than a common ancient reality, further highlighting Isaac’s uniqueness (109:17–110:56).
• The pattern: Sacrifice (death/resurrection) followed by marriage (union)—prefigures Christ’s death/resurrection and union with the Church.

6. Living Sacramentally: Signs and the Reality They Reveal (139:20–145:33)

• Sacramental Living: The hosts discuss practical ways for Christians to recover the spiritual depth woven through Abraham’s world and calling.
  • Family meals, communal life, and church gatherings as material signs, deeply united with (and not separate from) spiritual realities (48:04–53:23).
• Balance between Material and Spiritual:
  • Warning against "materialism" that thinks only in terms of external deeds, as well as a "spiritualism" that ignores the real material and communal context of faith.
  • "There is a complete union between the sign and the thing signified." – Fr. Stephen (139:51)

Select Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Ancient Urban Complexity:
  "We tend to not realize just how organized and efficient and interconnected the ancient world was."
  – Fr. Stephen (04:01)

• On Law Codes:
  "They're more like house rules...the law was simply just [the king's] will on paper."
  – Fr. Andrew (15:16)

• On Abraham’s Setting:
  "Again, these are not tribes living in caves, right? These are cities and city states...all functioning together in this vast web."
  – Fr. Andrew (20:55)

• On Theological Anachronism:
  "‘Ur of the Chaldeans’ is a wild anachronism."
  – Fr. Stephen (34:55)

• On the Babel Context of Abraham:
  "No nation stayed faithful to Yahweh. But some people did. The nations have fallen, but there are a handful of people who actually are still worshiping the one true God."
  – Fr. Andrew (61:26)

• On the Shape of the Promise:
  "Your descendants will be like the stars in this way,"—not just numerous, but like the stars (i.e., destined for deification, replacing the fallen lesser gods)."
  – Fr. Stephen (70:46)

• On the Relationship between Material and Spiritual Fulfillment:
  "The material element of Abram's descendants' inheriting the land...is the sign that the deification of Abraham's faithful descendants is also a reality."
  – Fr. Stephen (79:53)

• On Isaac's Sacrifice (Akedah):
  "His silence becomes emblematic of obedience and self-offering."
  – Fr. Stephen (115:16)

• On Hebrews 11 and Abraham’s Faith:
  “He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.”
  – St. Paul, quoted by Fr. Andrew (127:25)

Practical Spiritual Takeaways

• Sacramentality of Daily Life: The union of material signs and spiritual reality flows throughout scripture, beginning with Abraham’s world. We are called to recover a vision of life—even family meals—as deeply sacramental (48:05–51:44).
• Participatory Faith: The promises are not just about material prosperity or private spirituality, but about participating in divine life (theosis) through faithfulness, as Abraham did.
• Scripture as a Grand Arc: Understanding Abraham’s story as the arc running from faithful witness amid idolatrous civilization, through suffering and hope in God’s promise, to fulfillment in Christ, roots Orthodox Christian life in the deep union of seen and unseen.

Suggested Listening/Reading

• Past Podcast Episodes Mentioned:
  • The Giants Episode
  • Pentecost: “An Immaculate Dwelling Place”
• Other Recommendations:
  • Fall of Civilizations podcast: Episode on the Sumerian Empire
  • Fourth Ezra (for further Old Testament context)
• Books:
  • Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, "Arise, O God: The Gospel of Christ's Defeat of Demons, Sin, and Death"
  • Fr. Stephen De Young, "Religion of the Apostles"

[End of Summary]