The Lord of Spirits Podcast

Episode: God's Body

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: January 16, 2021
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition—in particular, the foundational question: What is a body? and, specifically in this episode, the surprising biblical and theological reality that even God has a “body.”

Episode Overview

This episode turns modern assumptions upside down by examining what the Bible, the Orthodox Christian tradition, and the ancient world mean when they use the word "body". Contrary to the common view that the body is simply material "meat" and that God must therefore be formless and immaterial, Frs. Andrew and Stephen lay out how bodies are understood in scripture as collections of powers, abilities, or "nexuses of potentialities." The episode digs deeply into the implications of this both for understanding God (pre- and post-incarnation), human nature, and Christian theology—showing how modern secularism is entangled with the loss of this ancient sense.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking "Body" — Ancient vs. Modern Ideas

• Modern View:
  • "I am an immaterial soul, invisibly housed in a material shell that will decay and be discarded at death."
  • God's bodily reality is denied outside the incarnation; angels and spirits are "bodiless" (01:10-03:00).
• Ancient View:
  • Body = A "nexus of potentialities", a "collection of powers or energies" (05:41, 21:04)
  • Example:
    • Ancient "eyes" = power of sight (not meat orbs) (06:34-07:06)
    • "Ears" = ability to hear, not just flesh (07:21-07:45)
    • "Right arm" = strength, not bone and muscle per se (08:01)
    • "Face" = ability to communicate (08:19-08:25)
• Quote:
  • Fr. Stephen: "A body is a nexus of potentialities or a collection of powers or energies or abilities." (05:41)

2. Are References to God’s Body "Just Metaphor"?

• The language in Scripture (God’s eyes, face, arm, etc.) is not "mere metaphor" but reflects real powers/energies—bodily realities, as ancient people understood them (10:12-11:21).
  • Fr. Andrew: "This is the show where we tell you that the things that you thought were metaphors are not metaphors." (09:02)
• Anthropomorphism vs. Theomorphism:
  • Modern: We describe God in human terms; those are "projections"
  • Orthodox/Biblical: We are “theomorphic”—in the likeness of God; God is the original, we are the diminished copy (13:20-16:03)
• Quote:
  • "That's exactly backwards." (13:20, Fr. Stephen)

3. God’s “Face” and Biblical Language

• "Face" in Hebrew and Greek texts is often mistranslated as "presence."
  • Example: Jonah "flees from the face of God" — he tries to escape God’s communication (16:43-17:19)
• God doesn’t say, “I’m a spirit, I don’t have a face,” but "You can't see my face and live." (11:08)
• Quote:
  • Fr. Stephen: "So that language of face is actually probably the most prevalent one of these. Even though it's hidden by translation in the Scriptures." (18:01)

4. Distinguishing “Body” and “Flesh” in the New Testament

• Greek: "Soma" (body) vs. "Sarx" (flesh); not synonyms (22:14-23:46)
• “Flesh” is a limited subset of “body”—corruptible, mortal, weakened by the fall (25:46-26:44)
• Fall narratives (Adam & Eve): “Garments of skin” = transformation into fleshly, mortal, limited bodies (26:44-28:04)
• Quote:
  • Fr. Stephen: "Flesh is a type of body that for St. Paul...is weakened, is corruptible, is changeable, is mortal." (25:46)

5. The Incarnation: Christ Takes on “Flesh”

• “The Word became flesh”—much more specific than just “took a body” (30:44-31:07)
• Even after resurrection, Christ retains flesh and bone (but now, immortal and transformed) (32:10-32:36)

6. Roots of the Modern View: The God of the Philosophers vs. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

• Greek philosophers (esp. Aristotle & Plato) codify the idea that the highest God is pure thought/self-contemplation—beyond body, not active in the world (37:04-39:43)
• This leads to Gnosticism, Deism, and ultimately secular materialism (51:22-54:39)
• Quote:
  • Fr. Andrew: "It's interesting that there's a direct line between saying God does not have a body and ultimately secular materialism, atheism, all of these modern problems that we have now." (53:59)

7. Christological Debates: Why Saying “God Has No Body” is a Heresy

• Ancient heretics (Origenists, Nestorians) claimed God has no body in this sense, creating a wedge between Christ’s humanity and divinity.
• The Orthodox response: The pre-incarnate Logos truly “has a body”—powers, energies, abilities—by which He interacts with creation (66:40-67:26)
• Importance of technical theological terms like kyriakos anthropos/homo dominicus (“lordly man”) (63:06-66:40)

8. Bodies of Angels, Demons, and Pagan Gods

• Ancient pagans: believed their gods have many bodies (statues, sun, pharaoh), each a locus of potentiality (93:30-96:16)
• Idolatry’s error: Humans try to create a body for the god, localizing and controlling divinity.
• True worship: God chooses the locus (tabernacle/temple), not man; His presence is not manipulable (98:09-99:08)
• On demons/giants (Nephilim): Their spirits lack bodies, thus “seek” embodiment (possess people/idols) (69:51–70:59)

9. Old Testament: God’s Bodily Presence Is Not “Metaphorical”

• Many examples:
  • God appears visibly to Abraham (“the word of Yahweh appeared to him in a vision” – Gen. 15) (74:14-74:54)
  • Stands beside Samuel’s bed (1 Sam 3) (75:10-76:45)
  • Touches Jeremiah’s mouth (Jer 1) (76:45-76:59)
  • Eats with Abraham (Genesis 18–19); Yahweh on earth calls fire from Yahweh in heaven (79:42–80:13)
  • Moses speaks to God “face to face” before being told “no one can see my face and live” (81:28-81:36)
• Quote:
  • "The person that they saw...is the Logos who I've been talking about in this prologue." (82:44, Fr. Stephen)

10. Trinity & Worship: Who Interacts with Us?

• The divine name “Yahweh” = “He who causes to be” — a title for the Creator, not an exclusive name of one hypostasis (person) (86:04-87:58)
• Each person of the Trinity interacts energetically and personally with creation; titles and energies (“bodies”) are shared (89:06-89:52)
• In Orthodox worship ("Christ our God, the existing one"): Christ is explicitly identified as Yahweh (88:19-88:55)

11. Temple, Sacrifice, and Worship: The one place where God chooses to communicate

• In contrast to pagan gods' many bodies, Yahweh chooses one place for worship (tabernacle/temple); humans must come to Him (98:46-99:08)
• Day of Atonement: Not to “summon” God, but to make it safe for His bodily appearance in the Holy of Holies (100:54-103:04)
• Christ fulfills and replaces the temple: Now, wherever His body (the Eucharist) is present, that’s the locus of divine presence (105:24-105:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This is the show where we tell you that the things that you thought were metaphors are not metaphors."
  — Fr. Andrew (09:02)

• “That's exactly backwards. That the way the Scriptures see it is that humans are theomorphic. Right. Humans are in the image and likeness of God. So God is the paradigm.”
  — Fr. Stephen (13:22)

• "A body is a nexus of potentialities or a collection of powers or energies or abilities."
  — Fr. Stephen (05:41)

• "The philosopher's God is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The philosopher's God has no body. He's remote...it is remote...and so we can't know him."
  — Fr. Andrew (52:21)

• "We're not saying the Father and the Spirit don't interact with the creation. Right. God the Father is not the God of the philosophers. And then we've got Christ as an intermediary. They all do."
  — Fr. Stephen (89:06)

• "The God who created the universe is the opposite of that... He's done all of it so that we would seek after him and find Him...he cares about you, he wants you to seek him…"
  — Fr. Stephen (111:21)

Call-in Highlights

• Alex from Florida (39:24): Asks how glorified saints “share in God’s powers” and what it means for the “nous” (spiritual mind/heart) — Saints’ abilities (clairvoyance, knowledge, healing) are not “superpowers,” but restored human powers participating in God’s energies ("we become instruments of God's love or peace ... and that's transformative" — Fr. Stephen, 44:30).
• Greg from Texas (67:44): Asks about "bodies" of demons, fallen angels, and the Nephilim — The "unclean spirits" are disembodied, hence they seek embodiment in humans, idols, etc.; angels have a different kind of "body," more in episode two.
• Scott & Megan from Alabama (83:03): Ask "Who are we interacting with?" in the Old Testament — Is Yahweh the Son, the Father, or the Spirit? The divine name/title "Yahweh" applies to all three; but the visible, interpersonal appearances in the Old Testament are of the pre-incarnate Christ, the Logos (86:04–88:55).

Important Timestamps

| Time | Section/Topic | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:50 | What if God had a body before the incarnation? | | 05:41 | “Nexus of potentialities”—Ancient concept of body | | 13:20 | “That’s exactly backwards.” Theomorphism not anthropomorphism | | 16:43 | “Face of God” in translation and meaning | | 22:14 | Paul’s distinction between “body” (soma) and “flesh” (sarx) | | 30:44 | “The Word became flesh” — importance for Incarnation | | 37:04 | God of the philosophers (Aristotle, Plato) | | 53:59 | From “God has no body” to atheism and materialism | | 66:40 | Kyriakos anthropos/homo dominicus (“Lordly man”) and heresies | | 74:14 | OT texts: God’s bodily appearances (to Abraham, Samuel) | | 98:46 | God chooses the temple location—humans cannot localize God | | 105:24 | Eucharist and temple: Every place with Christ’s body is a temple | | 111:21 | St. Paul, Areopagus: God is not far from anyone |

Final Takeaways

• The Body is not just “stuff”; it is a locus of a being’s powers and abilities.
• Scriptural descriptions of God’s body are not mere metaphor; the God of the Bible truly is a God who acts, sees, speaks, touches, and loves personally.
• Modern secularism and disenchanted worldviews trace, in part, to the loss of this ancient, sacred reality.
• Worship, the incarnation, and the Eucharist are all about bodily presence—not of mere flesh, but of the fullness of divine energy meeting human weakness.
• The Christian faith is about seeking and finding a God who is always near, never remote or indifferent.

If you want theology that is both mind-bending and heart-reviving, revisit this episode. The next episode promises to dig deeper into human and angelic bodies.