The Lord of Spirits Podcast

Episode 116: Hasmonean? Nah, I’m Broke

Date: May 23, 2025
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Topic: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition

Episode Overview

This episode concludes a three-part series on the history of Israel, focusing on the often-overlooked period between the Babylonian exile and the New Testament era. The Fathers trace the fate of Judah after Babylonian exile, the rise and fall of the Hasmonean dynasty, the origins of Pharisees, Sadducees, and other Second Temple Jewish groups, leading up to St. Paul’s vision of “all Israel” in the Church. The episode explores how the union of the seen and unseen takes shape in the formation of Judaism and Christianity, addressing prevailing misconceptions and drawing out the implications for Orthodox Christians today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recap & Setting the Stage

• The series so far has taken listeners from Abraham to the dual kingdoms and their respective exiles. This episode starts with Judah in Babylonian exile and covers the so-called “400 silent years” between the Old and New Testaments.
• [05:02] Fr. Andrew: “Tonight, everyone, we are going to conclude our three-part series on the history of Israel...we begin with Judah in the Babylonian exile, singing the songs of Zion in a strange land. So what happens next?”

The "400 Silent Years"—Myth and Reality

• The “silent years” is a Protestant invention rather than a neutral fact of history.
• The period is full of religious literature and historical activity, including the Maccabean books and the development of key Jewish institutions.

[07:06] Fr. Stephen: “You just quoted First Maccabees as though it were scripture. As though it were true. Yeah, authoritative... That’s not really a thing. The history of Israel continued. Things happened between the end of Nehemiah and the beginning of the New Testament.”

2. From Exile to Return: Empires and Restorations

The Neo-Babylonian and Persian Shifts

• Babylonian exile was intended to dissolve Judah, like Assyria did the northern tribes—but God’s providence intervened.
• Cyrus of Persia practices pluralism and allows exiled Judeans to return, but most remain in diaspora (Egypt, Babylonia, elsewhere in the Persian Empire).
• He’s portrayed as a “deal-maker,” using coalitions, marriages, and generous local autonomy instead of Assyrian brutality.

[17:28] Fr. Stephen: “Cyrus comes from Persis...but Cyrus manages to unite the people...great at making deals...One of the things that facilities this is he’s very good at administration. He creates a massive bureaucratic state...He standardizes what's called Imperial Aramaic...That Aramaic is Imperial Aramaic.”

Diaspora: An Enduring Reality

• Many Judeans never return but create vibrant diaspora cultures (Babylonian and Alexandrian Judaism).
• Notably, the Alexandrian Jews built an alternative ‘embassy’ temple in Egypt (Leontopolis), showing early pragmatic adaptations to the loss of the Temple.

[29:03] Fr. Stephen: “The central area of Leontopolis is still called Tell Yehudi...meaning the Hill of the Jews.”

The Second Temple and Lingering Disappointment

• Returned Judeans rebuild Jerusalem and dedicate the Second Temple, but the Shekinah—God’s manifest glory—does not return as in earlier biblical episodes.
• This lack creates sustained religious tension and longing for greater fulfillment.

[36:03] Fr. Andrew: “They rededicate it, something doesn't happen...That must have been pretty disappointing...Is God still mad?” [37:13] Fr. Stephen: “But the people soldier on. But this creates this tension...very incomplete...not really the fulfillment.”

3. Judaism in Diaspora: Synagogues & New Identities

Emergence of Synagogues and the Shift in Practice

• With Temple worship impossible for most, synagogues arise as local centers of prayer and study—no sacrifices, but a “way of life.”
• The difference between being a "Judean" (ethnic/geographic) and practicing “Judaism” (Torah observance everywhere), and how this confuses ancient pagans.

[43:40] Fr. Stephen: “If you're from Thrace...living in Phrygia...you would worship both the gods of your ancestors and the gods of the land. But the Jews refused...That was not a thing that happened.”

Practical and Theological Innovations

• Diaspora Judaism learns to maintain religious life without the land or temple; emphasis grows on the Torah and community faithfulness.
• This primes Jewish communities for the post-70 AD era, but also marks the significant break between ancient Israelite religion and Second Temple Judaism.

[52:42] Fr. Stephen: “Ancient Israelite religion and Second Temple Judaism are not the same. And...some of the big significant changes.”

4. Enter the Greeks: Alexander, Antiochus, and Hellenism

Alexander the Great and the Division of Empires

• Alexander conquers, but dies young, leaving his empire divided: Ptolemies (Egypt), Seleucids (Asia), others.
• Antioch (in Syria) becomes a major Jewish city; rivalries and cultural mixing fuel later Christian history.

[98:50] Fr. Stephen: “At the time of its establishment, one third of the population of Antioch [is] Jewish...Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem: sounding familiar?”

Antiochus IV and the Maccabean Revolt

• Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" persecutes Jews for refusing Hellenistic religious practice; the abomination of desolation.
• Maccabean revolt led by the priestly Hasmoneans restores the Temple (origin of Hanukkah); the Hasmoneans soon become kings and combine the roles of king and high priest—against Torah and precedent.

[105:54] Fr. Stephen: “His attack is on Eudaismos. His attack is on their way of life. He wants to break them, of keeping Torah and have them worship the Greek gods like everyone else.”

Martyrdom and the Evolution of Jewish Faith

• The Maccabean martyrs’ stories create the theological framework for martyrdom seen later in Christianity (voluntary self-offering as atonement).

5. The Hasmonean Dynasty: Corruption and Reaction

From Deliverers to Tyrants

• Hasmonean rulers become increasingly corrupt, merging kingship and priesthood.
• Their political machinations include forced conversions, destruction of the Samaritan temple, and alliances with Rome and Sparta.
• The dynasty ends in violent power struggles and intrigue, paving the way for Roman intervention, Herod, and the tetrarchs.

Rise of the Pharisees and Sadducees

• Pharisees emerge as a reaction to Hasmonean corruption: set apart, Torah loyalists, champions of the synagogue system.
• Sadducees derive from Hasmonean high priests; they seek power, not spiritual revival.

[128:47] Fr. Stephen: “Their ideology is simple. Their ideology is we’re supposed to be following the Torah...what God wants us to do and what we need to do, if we want him to send the Messiah and intervene…and remove the curse from us, and do all these things, is we need to keep the Torah.”

Pharisees: Not the Bad Guys!

• The hosts stress that the Pharisees are not simply “the villains” of the New Testament. Jesus criticizes their hypocrisy and pride, not their theology.
• Their spiritual emphasis on Torah faithfulness will provide the root for both rabbinic Judaism and Christianity.

[125:07] Fr. Stephen: “The Pharisees are not the bad guys...Christ never says they’re even wrong about anything.”

6. Israel and the Nations: St. Paul’s Vision

The Restoration of Israel: Prophecy Fulfilled in Christ

• Restoration of Israel in the prophets is not just a gathering of exiles, but a resurrection (Ezekiel 37).
• Prophets foresee Gentiles ("the fullness of the nations”) being joined to Israel—not conversion to “Judaism” as the Pharisees understood, but inclusion in God's inheritance.

[175:23] Fr. Stephen: “This is what it has to be, resurrected from the dead. That’s what needs to happen for Israel to be restored. There needs to be a resurrection.”

Romans 9–11: One Olive Tree

• St. Paul uses the olive tree metaphor (Romans 11): Israel is not replaced, nor is the Church a separate “tree.”
• Unfaithful branches (unbelieving Jews, old Israel) are cut off, but can be grafted in by faith; wild branches (Gentiles) are grafted in, but don’t replace the natural.
• The “fullness of the gentiles” (“melo ha-goyim”) alludes back to biblical promises to Ephraim and the patriarchs (Genesis 48).
• Israel = faithful remnant + faithful among the nations in the Messiah.

[194:47] Fr. Stephen: “Sorry, dispensationalists, there’s only one olive tree...This is one, one. One olive tree.”

The Unity of God’s People

• Christianity does not “replace” Israel, nor set up a parallel. It is the restoration and fulfillment of what Israel was to be.
• This is not a “Plan B” but the flowering of promises going back to Abraham.

7. Modern Relevance and Warnings

• The Fathers warn against Hasmonean-ism in our own era—movements that mistake the kingdom for something to be seized violently, or by human politics, whether through Zionism, Christian nationalism, or secular ideologies.
• The proper Christian stance is “be a Pharisee”—meaning, in the best sense, keep the faith, be set apart by righteousness, not by violence or control; await God’s action.

[218:11] Fr. Stephen: “Our world is full of Hasmoneans. Zionism...evangelical Christians...Christian nationalists...national socialism...On and on, what all of these ideologies have in common, they all have in common with the Hasmoneans: We’re going to get God to intervene. We’re going to establish justice. We’re going to usher in the kingdom...all these programs and plans always degenerate into violence...Be a Pharisee! The Pharisees were the good guys...You do that in the midst of all the turmoil...That is the important message, that Spirit of the Hasmoneans is not the Holy Spirit.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Silent Years”
  [07:06] Fr. Stephen: "You just quoted First Maccabees as though it were scripture. As though it were true...That's not really a thing."

• On Synagogues
  [47:59] Fr. Stephen: “This is what gives birth to synagogues. You’re not going to see anything about synagogues in the Torah.”

• On Hanukkah
  [119:26] Fr. Stephen: “This is where Hanukkah comes from...They only have enough oil for one day, but miraculously it lasted for eight days.”

• On Pharisees
  [125:07] Fr. Stephen: “The Pharisees are not the bad guys in the New Testament...He says they sit in Moses’ seat, do whatever they tell you.”

• On Romans 11
  [194:47] Fr. Stephen: “Sorry, dispensationalists, there’s only one olive tree...There’s not two.”

• Modern Hasmonean Warnings
  [218:11] Fr. Stephen: “Our world is full of Hasmoneans...Be a Pharisee. The Pharisees were the good guys...in the face of all the turmoil."

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | | -------------- | ------------------------------------------------------------ | | 05:02 | Recap and Outline: “Conclude our three-part series on Israel”| | 17:28 | Cyrus’ approach to Empire, and how the Exile ends | | 29:03 | Diaspora Jewish communities in Egypt and Babylonia | | 36:03 | Disappointment at Second Temple’s dedication | | 47:59 | Emergence of synagogues, Judaism beyond the land | | 98:50 | Jewish Antioch and its later role in Christianity | | 105:54 | Antiochus IV, persecution, and the beginning of Hanukkah | | 125:07 | Rehabilitation of the Pharisees’ historical reputation | | 175:23 | Ezekiel 37 and restoration of Israel as resurrection | | 194:47 | The Olive Tree in Romans 11, and what it means | | 218:11 | Modern applications—warning against Hasmonean spirit |

Final Thoughts

The episode affirms that the story of Israel is the story of the Church; the New Covenant is the flowering, not the replacement, of the Old. The temptation to “make the world right” through politics, violence, or ideology is persistently rebuked in Israel’s history—with the way of faithful “Pharisaism” (righteous, humble obedience, waiting on God) set forth as the true pattern for the people of God.

[214:03] Fr. Andrew: “…It’s the same covenant from God from the beginning. It’s not Plan B...If you’re a non-Jewish Christian, you’re one of those wild olive branches that have been grafted into the natural olive tree…”

[221:12] Fr. Stephen: “The answer is not to start a counter movement…Rather than trying to overcome evil with good...The Spirit of the Hasmoneans is not the Holy Spirit.”

This summary covers all the major topics and arguments while preserving the hosts’ tone, humor, and natural flow, providing a useful guide for those who haven’t heard the episode or wish to review its substance.