Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits — "Leviathan: It’s What’s For Dinner"

Date: October 15, 2021
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Theme: Exploring the mythic biblical monsters Leviathan and Behemoth, their context in Orthodox tradition, and the spiritual meaning of biblical monsters and chaos beasts.

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode delves into biblical and mythic monsters—focusing most deeply on Leviathan (the sea serpent/dragon) and Behemoth (the cosmic wild bull)—as both theological symbols and actual spiritual realities within the worldview of Orthodox Christianity. The hosts connect these ancient images to broader themes—evil, chaos, the nature of spiritual warfare, and the role of Christ in subjugating these monsters. They trace these images through the Old Testament, ancient Near Eastern mythology, Second Temple literature, and into the New Testament, particularly the Book of Revelation.

1. Setting the Stage: Monsters in the Bible and Ancient Myth

[00:01:40]

• October is "monster month," focusing on biblical monsters like Leviathan, Behemoth, and related apocalyptic beasts.
• Opening question: Is the Bible really talking about a giant sea dragon?
  • Fr. Stephen: “Yes.” [02:19]
• The word "Leviathan" comes from the Semitic root LTN (Ugaritic "Litanu"), literally "the twisting/writhing one"—evoking a sea serpent.

Key Discussion:

• Disambiguation: Ancient texts contain many sea serpent/monster images—not all are Leviathan.
• Ancient mythic imagery—serpents unify traits of deception, chaos, and evil; Leviathan is the archetype.
• Quote:
  • “This is the one that is truly twisting and writhing and subtle and slippery—the twisted one.” – Fr. Stephen [05:43]

2. The Ancient Near Eastern Background: Sea, Chaos, and Dragons

[07:20–24:45]

• Caller Steve (Grand Rapids): Asks if every biblical mention of the sea (“yam”) refers to a cosmic sea god.

Key Insights:

• In Semitic paganism, physical seas were seen as the “body” or hypostasis of the sea god Yam.
  • Fr. Stephen: "When they're going out to sea, they're going to be offering their sacrifices and their rituals to Dagon slash Poseidon slash Yam slash whomever…" [10:04]
• Leviathan is a projection—embodiment of Yam’s destructive aspect; defeating Leviathan = defeating Yam’s power.
• Ancient myth cycles often show a storm god (Baʿal, Marduk, Haddad, Horus) defeating chaos-monsters (Lotan/Leviathan, Tiamat, Sobek).
• The serpent’s symbolism of chaos, deception, and death is universal across the ancient world.
• Parallel examples: Greek Hydra, Norse Jörmungandr, Sumerian seven-headed horned snake, Egyptian Apophis.
• Quote:
  • “The idea of this creature—Leviathan—has been around as long as human civilization has been around, as far as we can tell.” – Fr. Stephen [24:13]

3. Leviathan in Scripture: From Creation to Judgment

Psalm 74 (LXX 73):

[36:34–44:55]

• Israel’s exile laments, then turns to God’s power:
  • “You split Yam by your might. You broke the heads of the dragons on the waters. You crushed the heads of Leviathan. You gave him as food for the Ethiopians.” [39:14]
• God as Creator as Monster-Slayer:
  • Not just defeating evil, but ordering creation.
  • The division of sea, defeat of dragons, and setting of natural boundaries are acts of ordering chaos.
  • “There's not like—it was a pitched battle where it was really touch and go for a while. …With God, He simply commands.” – Fr. Andrew [41:10]
• Leviathan as food is an image of chaos subdued, then incorporated into the (divinely ordered) world.

Isaiah 27:

[45:18–46:55]

• Eschatological prophecy: God will slay “Leviathan the fugitive serpent… the twisting serpent.”
• Echoes future hope—final destruction of chaos and restoration of a paradisical order (“a pleasant vineyard”).
• Ongoing: Leviathan as a recurrent enemy of order, but ultimately destined for total defeat.

The Cross as Cosmic Victory:

[47:13–49:12]

• New Testament and Orthodox hymnography connect the Crucifixion directly to this imagery.
  • “The cross is Christ splitting Yam in two and crushing the heads of Leviathan.” – Fr. Stephen [49:05]

Other Appearances:

• Amos 9:3: “The serpent at the bottom of the sea.”
• Psalm 104/103: “Leviathan, whom Thou hast made to sport therein.”
  • God’s sovereign “domestication” of chaos—Leviathan is His pet.

Book of Job:

• Job 3:8 and 40:25–41:26:
  • Leviathan as a powerful, fire-breathing, semi-crocodilian monster—impossible for man to control, but subject to God.

4. Theodicy, Divine Domination, and Monsters on a Leash

[59:41–63:22]

• Ancient paganism posits chaos and order as equals in a perpetual struggle (e.g., Ragnarok).
• The biblical worldview: God is absolutely sovereign—monsters, demons, evil, and chaos are on God’s leash.
  • “Yahweh, the God of Israel, doesn’t just defeat chaos or hold chaos at bay—He actually grabs hold of chaos and uses even it to bring about order, to bring about good.” – Fr. Stephen [62:51]

5. Behemoth: The Earth Monster

[67:19–83:21]

• Explored most fully in Job 40:15–24.
• Behemoth (plural of intensity): “the beast of beasts”; grammatically feminine but takes masculine pronouns.
  • Rooted in “behema” (cattle/cow).
• Ancient parallels: Ugaritic “Bull-baal,” “Arshu,” the Bull of Heaven in Gilgamesh, later Greek Minotaur.
• Symbolizes: Masculine power, tyranny, virility, but also wildness, untaming earth power.
• Paired with Leviathan in both ancient myth and Job—cosmic opposites: sea (chaos) vs. earth (tyranny/fertility).
• In Ugaritic tradition, Behemoth parallels "toxic masculinity," while Leviathan is "toxic femininity." [83:21]
• Notable quote: “The beast of beasts is a hippo? …Clearly not!” – Fr. Stephen [82:28]

6. Leviathan and Behemoth in Second Temple & Early Christian Literature

[93:04–99:22]

• Enoch, 2 Baruch, 4 Ezra: Leviathan and Behemoth created at creation, separated (sea and land), reserved for the end times to be “food for the faithful.”
• Joined motif—at the Last Day, the monsters are slain and served as food to the righteous, emblematic of evil/chaos being made to serve good.
• Quote: “All of these sources are functioning within the same world… the tradition that people believe in…” – Fr. Andrew [99:00]

7. The Beasts in Daniel and Revelation: The Spiritual Battle Behind Human Empires

[104:26–114:16]

• Daniel 7: Four beasts from the sea equate to Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome.

  • All are instantiations of Leviathan—chaos manifesting as empires that persecute God’s people.
  • The “horns” on the beasts reference succession of kings and blasphemous rulers—archetype of Antichrist powers.

• Revelation 13: Two beasts (from Sea and Earth)

  • Beast from the Sea: Leviathan—the cosmic chaos force behind empires; bundles together Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome (“leopard-bear-lion” features, 7 heads, 10 horns; reference to blasphemous royal titles, e.g. “Savior,” “Son of God”).
    • Quote: "This is Leviathan from the sea and Behemoth from the earth. This is not now a representative of them, but this is them." – Fr. Stephen [116:03]
  • Beast from the Earth: Behemoth; false prophet, parody of Christ, antichrist as religious manipulation—state religion leading to worship of empire.
  • Both receive power from the Dragon (Satan).

• Antichrist as Pattern, Not Only as Person:

  • “You have heard that Antichrist will come, and already Antichrists, plural, have arisen.” (1 John) [132:05]
  • Nero is emblematic (“Nero Redivivus”), but not unique—there are many antichrists.

• Final Judgment (Revelation 19:17–21):

  • Echo of Ezekiel 39: the slain beasts are “food” for the birds—evil and chaos, once vanquished, become fodder for the new creation.

8. Empire, Idolatry, and the Christian Response

[142:20–164:40]

What Is Empire?

• Not simply nations/tribes: Empire means expansion by conquest, domination, violence; universalizing power and culture through force.
• Always accompanied by a “civil religion”—the emperor, empire, or its values are worshipped (explicitly or implicitly).
  • Example: Augustus’ Roman “founding myths,” Virgil’s Aeneid, forced cultural monoculture, syncretism.

The Church’s Stance:

• Competing story:
  • The biblical narrative deconstructs imperial myths and reveals the true battle as spiritual.
  • “That’s not the real story… That is a lie being told by these demonic forces.” – Fr. Andrew [149:46]
• The Gospel conquers through humility, martyrdom, persuasion, not earthly violence.

Leviathan/Behemoth in the Modern World:

• Fr. Stephen: “If you’re worried that the United States or the Western world is about to become an empire animated by Leviathan and Behemoth—I have bad news. It happened fifty years ago.” [155:19]
  • The U.S. as cultural hegemon, spreading values globally through economic and cultural might.
  • Christians have always lived “in empire”; our challenge is how to respond.

9. Christian Revolution (Not Conquest)

[158:17–164:40]

• Real Christianity is revolutionary—a transformation of the base of society, not mere accommodation to the ruling powers.

  • Past examples: Justifying colonial atrocities, slavery—“That’s not actually Christianity. That’s the beast from the Earth. That’s Antichrist.” [160:07]
  • Authentic faith changes people at the fundamental level—leading to the collapse of sinful cultural structures, as seen in ancient Rome.

• Practical Program:

  1. Begin with Yourself: Conversion is not mere private piety, but has existential, world-changing effect when it transforms every aspect of life.
     • “If you’ve joined the Orthodox Church…and it hasn’t changed how you eat, how you dress, how you act in your family, how you do your job at work, how you apportion your time, how you look at and treat and handle your finances… you have not converted to Christianity.” [162:54]
  2. Bring the Gospel to Others: Only then can you effect true revolution outside yourself, transforming families, communities, nations—not by force, but by love and holiness.

• Hope:

  • “The good news: we’ve seen once before that our fathers in the faith were able to completely transform and defeat empire through Christ. And we can do the same thing…” [164:40]

10. Memorable Quotes & Moments

Best Quotes:

• "Leviathan is Yahweh’s pet. …God plays with Leviathan. Leviathan is like his dog. Or like his cat, who he plays with.” – Fr. Stephen [52:01]
• “Is Leviathan the devil? Yes and no.” – Fr. Stephen [27:31]
• “It’s not about a geographic location. …It’s about creation, not about a spot on a map.” – Fr. Andrew [48:37]
• “Yahweh… grabs a hold of chaos and uses even it to bring about order, to bring about good.” – Fr. Stephen [62:51]
• “One does not simply walk into Cairo.” – Fr. Andrew [91:32]
• “It’s not about sitting and worrying about whether and when we’re going to be in that situation. We are in that situation.” – Fr. Stephen [157:45]

Memorable Moment:

• [66:20] Listener asks: “When Christ put all things under his feet, did he do the Monster Mash?” Hosts: “Yes. …It was a graveyard smash.” (Laughter)

11. Timestamps for Key Segments

• Leviathan in Scripture & Ancient Near East: 01:40–36:34
• Psalm 74 & Theological Significance: 36:34–44:55
• Isaiah & the Second Crushing: 45:02–48:37
• Domesticating Leviathan (Psa 104, Job): 51:10–62:12
• Theodicy, Chaos, and Divine Sovereignty: 59:41–63:22
• Behemoth and Ancient Parallels: 67:19–83:21
• Second Temple Literature: 93:04–99:22
• Daniel & Revelation: Beasts Interpreted: 104:26–133:33
• Empire, Spiritual Warfare, Civil Religion: 142:20–148:48
• Practical Christian Revolution: 158:17–164:40

12. Final Takeaways—Practical Guidance

• Christian faith must not serve “empire,” but overthrow it through transformation, not violence.
  • True Christianity is radical, changing the very ground of your life.
  • The Old Testament’s monster-slaying God is the same God revealed and victorious on the Cross.
• The monsters are still with us—whether as spiritual realities or as the ideologies animating our world.
  • We defeat them not by imitating their methods, but by living Christ-like lives—humility, martyrdom, love, repentance.
• Our hope is sure: chaos and evil not only defeated, but “fed to the faithful”—evil becomes the fodder for good.

Listen to this episode for a wide-ranging, captivating tour of how the ancient Christian tradition interprets monsters, and what that means for spiritual life, politics, and society today.

“Amen. …We have the power, through the Gospel, to change the fundamental reality of our society and our culture. But that doesn’t start by us going and trying to convert the president of our country… it starts with us converting ourselves.” – Fr. Stephen [162:42–162:54]