Transcript

Narrator (0:00)

He will be a staff for the righteous with which for them to stand and not to fall. And he will be the light of the nations and the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All who dwell on the earth will fall down and worship him. And they will praise and bless and celebrate with song the lord of spirits. First Enoch, chapter 48, verses 4 through 5. The modern world doesn't acknowledge, but is nevertheless haunted by spirits, angels, demons and saints. In our time, many yearn to break free of the prison of a flat secular materialism, to see and to know reality as it truly is. What is this spiritual reality like? How do we engage with it? Well, how do we permeate everyday life with spiritual presence? Orthodox Christian priests, Father Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen DeYoung host this live call in show focused on enchantment in creation, vision, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Welcome to the Lord of Spirits.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:05)

Hey, good evening. Giant killers, dragon slayers, asphyxiators of sphinxes. You're listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast and this is episode 118. I have spent hundreds of hours of my life talking to you on this podcast, Father Stephen DeYoung, when what do you have to say for yourself?

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:24)

I think the benefits I've given to your life.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:28)

Even beyond, well beyond.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:31)

Those granted to any listeners, anything they might have derived is incalculable. And you're welcome.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:38)

Okay, so my co host, Father Steven DeYoung, the ENT who ran off the Entwives, is with me straight from the swamp in Lafayette, Louisiana. I'm Father Andrew Stephen Damick in Emmaus, Pennsylvania, perched precariously atop the arcane tower of podcasting, hovering dozens, dozens of stor stories above a disused gateway to the underworld. Which is only slightly a joke, by the way. Everybody I've had people ask me, they're like, are you. Wait, what do you mean? Is that a joke? And beneath me, there once was a crematorium. This. This building was an actual funeral home where they incinerated human bodies down in the basement. So, I mean, that is pretty much a gateway to the underworld. And we are live, unlike those people. And if you are listening to us live, you can call us.

Father Stephen DeYoung (2:22)

Some of them, some of them may be alone in the kingdom.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (2:25)

Summary

The Lord of Spirits Podcast – Episode 118: Mosaic Succession

Date: July 1, 2025

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young

Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition: The Nature, Transfer, and Relevance of Moses’ Authority

Episode Overview

In "Mosaic Succession," Frs. Andrew and Stephen explore the biblical concept of spiritual and communal authority as established with Moses, how this authority functioned practically among ancient Israel, the mechanisms of its transfer, and its ongoing significance—especially within the Orthodox tradition. The episode addresses misconceptions about Old Testament authority, clarifies the difference between God’s words and Moses’ rulings, and sets up a two-part conversation on how authority continues through scriptural history and into the Church.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Don’t Christians Talk About Israel’s Leadership Structure?

[09:51–17:27]

Most American Christians don't hear sermons about how Israel was organized because Protestant traditions often divide the law into “civil, ceremonial, and moral” (Calvin’s categories), dismissing the first two as irrelevant after Christ.
This division is not present in Scripture: "The Torah itself does not make such a distinction." (Fr. Stephen, 11:18)
Such distinctions often serve as theological “cope”—ways to sidestep hard textual realities (e.g., uncomfortable prohibitions). Various Christian groups create ad hoc explanations to suit contemporary or denominational preferences.

"One of the big ones is that [the law's distinction is] ad hoc…The Torah itself does not make such a distinction…That's not how it works." [Fr. Stephen, 11:05–13:54]
The result is that entire passages about authority structures are ignored, so most Christians are unfamiliar with them and fail to recognize their ongoing relevance.

2. Reframing the Life and Authority of Moses

[19:01–28:22]

Moses’ life is divided into three 40-year periods: Egyptian prince, Midianite shepherd, and Israelite leader.
Most events we attribute to Moses happen after he’s 80; however, the bulk of his life—including his leadership—is spent in mundane, daily involvement with people, family, and tribe.
Most of Moses’ authority isn’t about miracles, but about adjudication: making day-to-day rulings for the people.

"When we talk about the authority of Moses...we’re primarily not talking about those big things [miracles]. We’re talking about the authority he exercised day to day in his life...This is most of what Moses is doing." [Fr. Stephen, 28:23–30:54]
Moses decides cases, answers questions, and applies God’s law where written law isn’t explicit.

3. The Exercise and Nature of Mosaic Authority: The Example of Exodus 13

[31:12–42:23]

Case Study: Exodus 13 [31:22–34:01]
- God commands: “Consecrate to me all the firstborn.”
- Moses, however, gives Israel expanded and clarified instructions.
- What Moses says isn’t exactly what God said, and he doesn’t preface his words as interpretive.
- Modern “ad hoc” explanations (scholarly or evangelical) try to harmonize or dismiss these differences, but the text treats Moses’ expanded instructions as equally authoritative.
The core biblical logic: God gives command; Moses rules, clarifies, and applies; Israel is obligated to obey all as if from God.

"Both the words of God and the words of Moses here...are recorded in and as scripture...the Torah is both God and Moses talking. There’s not a distinction. That’s part of the nature of the authority that Moses has as a prophet." [Fr. Stephen, 45:30]
- The words of Moses become the words of God because Moses has been given this authority.
“As the Torah presents it… the words of Moses, even if those are words like about the donkey or about the children that were not spoken...by God, are treated the exact same way, just as authoritative to the people hearing them.” [Fr. Stephen, 41:56]

4. Mosaic Authority Across Scripture: Prophets, Histories, and Wisdom

[46:01–52:13]

The authority exercised by Moses shapes the entire Hebrew Bible:
- Historical Books: Written with the “Deuteronomistic” perspective, interpreting events according to Moses’ application of God’s law.
- Latter Prophets and Wisdom Literature: Prophets and sages interpret, apply, and add to the tradition of Moses in response to new situations. Proverbs, for instance, is a “case law” expansion of commandments.

5. Transfer of Moses’ Authority (Mosaic Succession)

[63:00–80:39]

A. Delegation: The Appointment of Presbyters/Elders

[63:13–70:55]

Exodus 18: Jethro advises Moses to appoint elders (presbyters) to judge routine matters; they derive authority from Moses, not independently.
The elders help administer Moses’ rulings but difficult or novel cases still come to Moses.

"The presbyters here…the elders, are essentially administrative officials. Moses makes rulings…they teach and administer those rulings that Moses has made in the day to day life of those people." [Fr. Stephen, 70:27]

B. Succession: Moses to Joshua and Beyond

[71:32–85:23]

Numbers 27: Moses, at God’s command, commissions Joshua by laying on hands—he is “invested” with authority to make binding decisions for Israel, including when to go to war.
Deuteronomy 18: God promises to raise up “a prophet like Moses” for each generation, whose words carry God’s authority—even as they interpret or apply God’s instructions in new situations.

6. Signs of Real vs. False Authority (Prophets) and Limits

[114:24–125:16]

Succession wasn’t biological: Prophets succeeded by laying on of hands, not by lineage (unlike kings or priests).
Prophetic authority required both:
a) Transmission through hands, and
b) Spiritual experience (“stood in the council of the Lord,” i.e., had true encounter with God—see Jeremiah 23).
False prophets might claim lineage or ritual, but without the spiritual vision they lack authority. They “speak visions of their own minds,” leading people astray.
The test: True prophecy is confirmed by signs; if a sign does not occur, the prophet is false and “need not be respected”.

7. Biblical Concepts and Terminology of Authority

[100:14–113:13]

Hebrew: Smikah (semikhah)—“ordination/authority,” rooted in “something sturdy, to be leaned on.”
Greek: Exousia—delegated capability, authority, not simply power; implies freedom to make rulings not bound by prior specifics.
Mosaic—and later prophetic—authority is unique: it is neither family-based nor merely legalistic but is conferred by God and mediated through communal rites (e.g., laying on of hands).

8. Contemporary Implications – Obedience, Community, and the Dangers of “Liberalism”

The modern rejection of divinely given, mediated authority (especially in spiritual matters) is called out as a diabolical impulse learned from the devil’s rebellion against hierarchy.
Obedience and accountability structures in the Church aren’t arbitrary—they reflect Mosaic and prophetic succession as set up by God for salvation.

"We need to follow the people to whom God has given the authority...There is no other way to make it to the kingdom of heaven than that." [Fr. Stephen, 142:36]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On “Cope” and Distinctions:

"Making these ad hoc distinctions is cope. It is definitionally cope... These distinctions are cope. Lots of people do them on lots of things. If they're not germane to...the text you're interpreting, if they're ad hoc, in other words, they are cope."
—Fr. Stephen [13:42]
On Mosaic Authority Above Mere Interpretation:

"The words of Moses, even if those are words...not spoken to him by God, are treated the exact same way, just as authoritative."
—Fr. Stephen [41:56]
On the Practical Nature of Moses' Judgment:

“If you're a parish priest, you do a lot of this as well, right?”
—Fr. Stephen [31:02]
On the Role of Prophets:

“A human prophet is going to live among the people, work among them, share their life and be able to do precisely this, to take what God has revealed to him and apply it and make these rulings."
—Fr. Stephen [83:18]
On Modern Attitudes:

“Our destruction is the devil’s whole goal. And he’s convinced us en masse, millions of people, that following the way that seems right to us…is the right thing to do. It’s a lie from hell.”
—Fr. Stephen [142:26]
On the perpetuity and relevance of Old Testament structures:

"The ways that church life functions are not something that are kind of arbitrarily decided...These authority structures are literally God made."
—Fr. Andrew [133:46]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[09:51] – Why Christian sermons skip Old Testament authority structures
[19:01] – Framing Moses’ life and daily authority
[31:12] – The workings of Mosaic day-to-day authority (Exodus 13)
[46:01] – Extension into Prophets, historical books, wisdom literature
[63:13] – Delegation to presbyters (Exodus 18)
[71:32] – Succession from Moses to Joshua and Prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18)
[100:14] – Hebrew/Greek terms and etymology of “authority”
[114:24] – False prophets, accountability, and criteria for testing (“by signs”)
[128:11] – Final questions: Could Moses be wrong? Who could hold Moses accountable?
[132:08] – “Authority to bind and to loose”: preview of next episode
[139:33] – Final thoughts: The spiritual (and social) dangers of rejecting authority

Listeners’ Questions & Practical Applications

Question about cultic sexuality and Phineas (answered: [56:49–62:33]) — real cultic prostitution, not just “foreign women.”
Question about whether contemporary saints who have spiritual experience have similar authority to biblical prophets (answered: [94:16–95:47]) — Yes, and this will be discussed more next episode.
How to talk to someone who thinks every inner vision comes from the Holy Spirit (chat, [125:16–128:08]) — Don’t attribute divine origin to every experience; discernment and humility are essential.

Style, Tone, and Meta Moments

The hosts combine serious biblical and theological analysis with self-deprecating humor and off-topic asides (Raisin Bran registry, laserdiscs, and Hamlet).
Occasional, affectionate mockery of popular religious “tropes” and internet culture (“cope,” “Mega Bob Evans relics”).
Recurrent playfulness with transitions and editing; explicit intention to have an on-ramp for next episode (part two).

Episode Takeaways

Biblical authority is both divine and mediated: God uses human beings to rule and apply His law in each generation, beginning with Moses and continuing through prophets and ultimately the Church.
Obedience and community are essential: The modern exaltation of “personal authority” or “finding your own way” is spiritually destructive and contrary to biblical and Orthodox teaching.
Discernment and humility are needed: Not every claim to revelation or authority is genuine—even if there is a supposed lineage; true authority requires both living tradition and authentic encounter with God.
Orthodox tradition continues this pattern: The structures and authority in the Church are not “man-made” but a continuation of the pattern God Himself established.

To Be Continued

This was Part 1 of a two-part exploration. The next episode promises to deepen the exploration into how authority is carried into the New Testament and how the Church lives out this Mosaic-prophetic pattern today—especially the meaning and origins of the authority “to bind and to loose.”

For comprehensive show notes and to participate further, visit Lord of Spirits on Ancient Faith Radio.