Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits — Pantheon and Pandemonium XII: Live Q&A (August 30, 2024)

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition
Format: Live Call-In, Questions from Listeners

Episode Overview

This episode of The Lord of Spirits is an all-live Q&A session where listeners called in with a broad range of questions related to Orthodox Christianity, biblical interpretation, spiritual realities, church history, and the relationship between seen and unseen worlds. The episode is lively, informative, and often humorous, as the hosts bounce between deep theological insights and lighthearted banter.

Key Discussion Points

1. Abraham’s Bosom & the Fate of the Righteous Dead Before Christ

Timestamps: [05:51] – [08:56]

• Question: Did the death of Abraham change anything in the underworld for the righteous?
• Fr. Stephen: There’s a tendency to think too linearly. Texts like 1 Enoch depict “caves” for the dead before Abraham — Abel is cited as an example.
  • “Abraham becomes the paradigmatic righteous dead, but he was not the first one.” ([07:55])
• Fr. Andrew: It’s called “Abraham’s Bosom” because Abraham becomes the father-figure of all faithful, not because he changed metaphysical reality.

2. Galatians 3:1 and Early Christian Iconography

Timestamps: [10:52] – [17:24]

• Question: When St. Paul says Christ was “publicly portrayed as crucified,” is he referring to icons?
• Fr. Stephen: While not definitive proof, there’s a “cumulative case” that visual representations (icons) were present from early on.
  • Notes pagan homes used iconographic images; Christians would have replaced or repurposed these, not simply whitewashed their homes.
  • “To imagine that Christians did not have iconography from the earliest period...is to either imagine that they just left that stuff up after becoming Christians...or maybe, I guess, they whitewashed.” ([15:43])
• Fr. Andrew: The difference between veneration and worship is rooted in what constitutes “worship” in the ancient world—sacrifice, not simply gestures like kissing or bowing.

3. Priesthood and Patriarchy Across Cultures

Timestamps: [19:46] – [28:22]

• Question: Is the link between priesthood and fatherhood universal in ancient cultures?
• Fr. Stephen:
  • In less developed/nomadic societies, the patriarch served as priest.
  • In complex civilizations (Egypt, Rome), specializations emerged (e.g., lector priests, keepers of sacred books), but high priests/kings retained the father-leader role.
  • Pagan kings often seen as “divine” members of the council of gods, not merely as intermediaries.

4. The Repentance of the Good Thief (St. Dismas)

Timestamps: [28:32] – [38:10]

• Question: How is the thief on the cross received into Paradise if he had no opportunity for “restorative repentance”?
• Fr. Andrew: Tradition exists that Dismas previously encountered Christ as a child; however, ultimate point is that honest, last-moment repentance is real repentance.
• Fr. Stephen: Differentiates “ordinary” from “extraordinary”; Stresses there’s no “mechanism of salvation”—God can save whomever He pleases.
  • “Christ can look at St. Dismas and say, today you'll be with me in Paradise, and that's it...that doesn't mean Jesus will say that to you.” ([34:17])
• On baptism/works: Obedience to Christ is necessary, but God is not bound by mechanisms—He is merciful beyond our categories.

5. Cain’s Descendants and Technology in Genesis 4

Timestamps: [38:24] – [44:45]

• Question: Why is civilization (music, metallurgy) associated with Cain’s line?
• Fr. Andrew: Ancient context links technology to the “gift” (or curse) of spirits. Genesis frames these developments as morally ambiguous, even dangerous—humans are not ready for such power, which tends toward evil early use.
• Fr. Stephen: Humanity’s downward progression: fruit-eating (least harm) → farming → animal husbandry → eating animals. Early use of new technology tends toward evil.

6. Would the Incarnation Have Happened Without Sin?

Timestamps: [48:22] – [56:20]

• Question: If Adam had not sinned, would Christ still have become incarnate?
• Fr. Andrew: The Incarnation is the purpose/end-point of creation: union of God and man was always intended.
• Fr. Stephen: Incarnation is not “plan B”; dealing with sin is a “speed bump,” not the main reason. The union of God and creation is greater aim—echoing St. Maximus the Confessor.

7. Resurrection, Identity, and Healing in the Age to Come

Timestamps: [56:51] – [70:51]

• Question: Are relationships and identities “fixed” in eternity? Do saints change after death?
• Hosts: In the age to come, identity persists, growth continues in relationship/knowledge of God, but not as temporal “becoming” as we know it.
• “Time doesn’t work in the age to come the way it does here.” ([67:00])
• The “burning away” of sin for the damned is most properly understood through metaphor, not mathematics or mechanism.

8. On “Mati” (Evil Eye Charms) and Superstitious Objects

Timestamps: [71:22] – [76:49]

• Question: Is it spiritually dangerous to keep an Evil Eye bead as a trinket?
• Fr. Andrew: The object itself is not magical; the issue is how it’s regarded or used. Best not to keep it for superstitious reasons, but it’s also a matter of honesty in relationships and Christian witness.
• Fr. Stephen: Lightly jokes: “Hit it with holy water and put it in a desk drawer.” ([76:30])

9. “Lion-like Men” of Moab and Demonic Possession

Timestamps: [77:44] – [85:47]

• Question: Are the “lion-like men” of Moab in 2 Samuel 23 related to the Nephilim?
• Fr. Stephen: Yes—these are described as Nephilim-like; their emergence is a sign Moab became as corrupted as the pre-flood lawless.
• Ancient languages in these passages suggest “divine/heroic” men; the important point is moral/spiritual corruption rather than genetics or physical size.

10. Modern Astronomy vs. Ancient Cosmology & Angels/Stars

Timestamps: [103:59] – [118:15]

• Question: How do we reconcile ancient understanding of stars (as spiritual/angelic beings) with modern astronomy?
• Fr. Andrew: Ancient cosmologies are relational/phenomenological, focusing on man's connection to cosmos, while modern science addresses material composition—these approaches are not in conflict but address different questions.
  • “There’s a whole world of spiritual experience our culture pushes to the side...It’s a kind of knowledge we've been shoving off…” ([112:08])
• Fr. Stephen: Science and theology are answering fundamentally different questions. Science can’t comment on spiritual significance or meaning.

11. Recommended Books for Ancient and Church History

Timestamps: [118:43] – [124:41]

• Hosts:
  • Early Church: Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, Eusebius’ Church History, Apostolic Fathers, St. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Yaroslav Pelikan, NT Wright for 1st century.
  • Bronze Age/Ancient: Eric Cline’s 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed, relevant books on individual civilizations.

12. Orthodox Prayer: Spontaneity, Authenticity, and Tradition

Timestamps: [131:02] – [145:47]

• Question: Is praying from pre-written prayers “authentic” compared to spontaneous prayer?
• Fr. Andrew: The notion that “spontaneity = authenticity” is an innovation. Most of history regards learned, repeatable prayer (Psalms, etc.) as normative.
  • “Best love songs are not spontaneous… Why would we think prayer shouldn’t take work of that kind?” ([137:01])
• Fr. Stephen: Sincerity and self-expression are modern idols. Structured prayer molds and changes us; God already knows our heart.
  • “God doesn’t need our self-expression—He knows what you think and how you feel… Structured prayer shapes me.” ([146:04])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Abraham’s Death & The Afterlife:
  “Abraham… becomes paradigmatic of the righteous dead…but that doesn’t mean he was the first one.” – Fr. Stephen ([07:55])

• “Publicly Portrayed as Crucified”:
  “There’s a very good cumulative case… that the same thing was happening in the homes of Christians from that early period…” – Fr. Stephen ([16:44])

• Mechanism of Salvation?
  “There is no mechanism of salvation. Christ can save anyone and everyone if he wants to—he’s God. God can do whatever he wants.” – Fr. Stephen ([36:44])

• Pride and Virtue:
  “If you do the right thing… I don't really care if your motives were at some level tainted by xyz.” – Fr. Stephen ([96:39])

• Science vs. Meaning:
  “The question when pagans and Jewish people are arguing about the sun and moon and stars… they're arguing about significance… not about what a star is.” – Fr. Stephen ([115:16])

• Prayer and Authenticity:
  “Most of humanity, for most of history, of any religion, has regarded pre-written prayers as what constitutes the authenticity of religion.” – Fr. Andrew ([137:52])

Tone and Style

• Warm, witty, often irreverently lighthearted.
• Deeply knowledgeable, yet accessible.
• Frequent pop culture references, and occasional wrestling debates for levity.
• Honest about not always having a single, black-or-white answer.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Abraham’s Bosom, Pre-Resurrection Dead: [05:51] – [08:56]
• Iconography in Early Church: [10:52] – [17:24]
• Priesthood & Fatherhood Across Cultures: [19:46] – [28:22]
• Repentance, The Good Thief: [28:32] – [38:10]
• Genesis 4 & Civilization: [38:24] – [44:45]
• Incarnation w/ or w/o Sin: [48:22] – [56:20]
• Resurrection, Identity, The Age to Come: [56:51] – [70:51]
• Evil Eye/Mati & Superstition: [71:22] – [76:49]
• Lion-like Men & The Nephilim: [77:44] – [85:47]
• Angels, Stars, and Astronomy: [103:59] – [118:15]
• Books on Church/Ancient History: [118:43] – [124:41]
• Orthodox Prayer: [131:02] – [145:47]

Conclusion

This episode is a rich journey through Orthodox Christian understandings of the spiritual world, lived tradition, and practical theology. The hosts blend solid scholarship and lived pastoral wisdom—making even arcane discussions (giants, spirits, prayer discipline) relevant, occasionally funny, and always grounded in the living Tradition of the Church.