Pantheon and Pandemonium XIV: Asynchronous Q&A Dec 2024

Fri Dec 27 2024

The Podfathers clear out the voicemail backlogs with this pre-recorded end-of-year episode, covering everything from whether Eglon was fat or handsome to if the Orthodox believe in a kind of Calvinism to the unsettling logismoi of Wham! at Christmastime.

Transcript

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (0:00)

He will be a staff for the righteous with which for them to stand and not to fall. And he will be the light of the nations and the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All who dwell on the earth will fall down and worship him. And they will praise and bless and.

Father Stephen DeYoung (0:17)

Celebrate with song the lord of spirits.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (0:21)

First Enoch, chapter 48, verses 4 through 5.

Father Stephen DeYoung (0:27)

The modern world doesn't acknowledge, but is.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (0:30)

Nevertheless haunted by spirits, angels, demons and saints. In our time, many yearn to break free of the prison of a flat secular materialism, to see and to know.

Father Stephen DeYoung (0:45)

Reality as it truly is. What is this spiritual reality like? How do we engage with it? Well, how do we permeate everyday life with spiritual presence? Orthodox Christian priests Father Andrew Stephen Damick.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:00)

And Father Stephen DeYoung host this live.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:03)

Call in show focused on enchantment in creation, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Welcome to the Lord of Spirits.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:19)

Good evening giant killers, dragon slayers, yuletide yellers at Yant Gantitin. You are listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast. My co host, Father Stephen DeYoung, the scourge of Surgat is with me, straight from the swamp in Lafayette, Louisiana. And I'm Father Andrew Stephen Damick in Emmaus, Pennsylvania, high atop the Eldritch tower of podcasting, perched above a disused gateway to the underworld. We're not live today because this is a pre recorded episode fashioned for you. For this Christmas season we're cleaning out our speak pipe backlogs and our intern Nero Ahenobarbus has collated no fewer than 17 voicemails, sifting them carefully out from a pile of 616 options that also included, and I'm not joking about this, the effect of holiness on bodily functions. And no fewer than seven separate serial voicemails from one non denom pastor who has so many bones to pick with us that he could teach an anatomy class with them.

Father Stephen DeYoung (2:15)

So you're just teasing me with that.

Summary

The Lord of Spirits

Episode: Pantheon and Pandemonium XIV: Asynchronous Q&A – Dec 2024

Date: December 27, 2024

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young

Presented by: Ancient Faith Ministries

Brief Overview

In this special pre-recorded Christmas Q&A episode, the hosts “clean out the speak pipe backlog” by answering a wide array of listener questions on Orthodox Christian tradition, theology, and spirituality, especially concerning the seen and unseen worlds. The episode covers everything from the use of incense at home, dreams, Marian apparitions, the Orthodox-Catholic divide, the nature of canonization, to more lighthearted topics like Halloween costumes and even Burt Reynolds. With characteristic humor and depth, the Fathers provide insightful, philosophically aware, and often spicy responses, making for both an edifying and highly entertaining episode.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Offering Incense: Who Can Do It, and Why?

[03:11–09:31]

Question: Why are laity permitted to burn incense at home if incense is also a sacrificial act, like the Eucharist?
Insight:
- Burning incense at home is a pious devotional act, not a liturgical sacrifice.
- It’s akin to praying over bread and wine at a meal, which isn’t the same as the Eucharist.
- "It's a pious practice... but it's not the same thing as the sacramental element that goes on at the church." – Fr. Stephen De Young [08:15]
- Incense is not “magical” in Orthodoxy (contrary to practices like smudging).
- In church, only the priest (protos) offers the sacrifice; others distribute.

2. Dreams and Spiritual Influence

[09:31–17:10]

Question: Are dreams generated internally, or do thoughts enter the noetic faculty (noûs) from external sources, such as spirits?
Insight:
- The noûs receives thoughts (analogous to the “eye of the heart”).
- Dreams often reflect the jumble of thoughts and data we receive but don't process—some dreams can be influenced by spirits.
- Lucid dreaming can be abused to deliberately enter the spiritual world—potentially demonic:
  “Same way the machine elves are demons, but yeah, that’s what I’d say about that.” – Fr. Stephen De Young [17:00]
- Prophetic dreams differ as "messages from outside" but most are mundane mental processes.

3. Glorifying God without Calvinist Overtones

[17:10–30:43]

Question: Does “glorifying God” mean boosting His ego, Calvinist-style, or is it something else in Orthodox theology?
Insight:
- Orthodox understanding of “glory” (doxa) is relational and transformative—not narcissistic.
- “Glory” translates both Heb. chavod (substance, heaviness) and shekinah (visible presence).
- “God's glory does benefit the people in the marriage. I mean, everything we do is for our... salvation.” – Fr. Andrew [28:39]
- Giving God glory means rightly attributing blessings to God rather than idols, self, or others.
- The quote, “Marriage is for God’s glory, not the couple’s benefit,” turns out to NOT originate from Fr. Alexander Schmemann.

4. Orthodox Approach to Catholic Marian Apparitions

[30:50–41:23]

Question: How do Orthodox Christians view Marian apparitions like Guadalupe or Lourdes?
Insight:
- Marian icons related to apparitions (e.g., Guadalupe) are sometimes venerated by Orthodox (esp. in Mexico), but without necessarily affirming Catholic dogmas attached to the apparition.
- Apparitions outside Orthodoxy aren’t automatically considered demonic.
- Miraculous signs are not to be uncritically accepted as proof since false signs exist—even outside Christian contexts.
- “The Orthodox Church can be open to the idea that these things happen. Right. But that does not in any way confirm the interpretation of them.” – Fr. Stephen [39:48]

5. What Divides Orthodox and Catholics – On Unity, Liturgy, Papacy

[42:24–54:26]

Question: What are the main obstacles to restoring communion between Orthodox and Catholics?
Insight:
- Dogmatic issues: Papal supremacy and infallibility (Vatican I) remain insurmountable for the Orthodox.
- Liturgy: Catholic worship as practiced today is often unrecognizable to Orthodox, especially post-Vatican II reforms.
  “The most important thing that Christians do is worship God… There has come to be so much about the way that Roman Catholicism worships God that has become alien to the average Orthodox Christian.” – Fr. Andrew [45:01]
- Even “reunification via Eastern Catholicism” is insufficient, as it’s a small subset.
- Ecclesiology: For the Orthodox, primacy is not universal jurisdiction; there’s a decentralized episcopal model.
- The situation on the ground—everyday parish worship—matters more than hierarchical/academic agreements.

6. Outside the Church: Is There No Salvation?

[56:00–64:21]

Question: Is the teaching “Outside the Church there is no salvation” a Calvinist-like determinism?
Insight:
- The Cyprianic formula is primarily a pastoral and eschatological statement, not a declaration of formal exclusivism.
- The church is Israel; salvation is “from the Jews” (John 4:22), but not to the exclusion of righteous outsiders (e.g., the Samaritan woman, St. Isaac of Syria).
- Past Russian theological positions equating lack of exposure to Orthodoxy with predestined reprobation are, per Fr. Stephen, “bad Calvinism.”
- Evangelism would be pointless if God always placed the elect in Orthodox families.
- “God loves people, all people. He takes no delight in the death of a wicked man, but rather that he should turn and live.” – Fr. Stephen [121:45]

7. Neoplatonism: Christian Influence? Plus Gnostic Parallels

[66:46–76:47]

Question: Is there substance to the idea that Christianity (or Gnostic thinking) influenced Neoplatonism, not just the reverse?
Insight:
- Read Porphyry (anti-Christian polemicist), then Plotinus, to see the dialogue with Christianity firsthand.
- Gnosticism and Neoplatonism share similarities in practice and conceptual orientation, but their praxis diverges.
- “(Approach) classicists writing about Plotinus, who don't have an axe to grind in terms of the relationship of Plotinus to Christianity.” – Fr. Stephen [68:08]

8. Canonization and Local Veneration

[76:50–83:07]

Question: Is it proper to “go fishing” for unknown saints, or self-canonize online, e.g., with Fr. Seraphim Rose?
Insight:
- Canonization starts with local veneration. Campaigning for canonization via internet or popular movements is inappropriate.
- “If you want to pray to Father Seraphim, pray to Father Seraphim Rose, go ahead. Okay. Go ahead... For now, just shut up.” – Fr. Stephen [82:44]
- Publicity and shibboleth-creation around would-be saints is dangerous; real Orthodox piety is lived, not broadcast or enforced on others.

9. Assurance of Salvation – Certainty or Relationship?

[87:43–96:45]

Question: What does “assurance of salvation” mean in Orthodoxy, especially compared to Evangelical or Puritan ideas?
Insight:
- Salvation is relational and ongoing (theosis), not a binary state.
- Orthodox “assurance” is relational, akin to being secure in marriage, not mathematical certainty.
- Protestant “certainty” tends to collapse the richness of salvation down to a contractual formula.
- “Being conformed to the likeness of Christ… That’s not a binary thing.” – Fr. Stephen [91:45]

10. On “We” and “Us” in Christian History

[97:07–102:40]

Question: Should Christians use “we” and “us” when talking about Israel in Scripture/history?
Insight:
- Yes; converts are grafted into Israel’s history by adoption.
- St. Paul addresses even former pagans as part of the “we” ("our fathers... passed through the sea").
- “He actually believes they’re grafted in. They’re now in.” – Fr. Stephen [100:36]
- The same logic underpins the language of liturgy (e.g., “Blessed art thou, Lord, God of our fathers”).

11. Peter the Rock: What’s in a Nickname?

[102:52–109:56]

Question: Peter’s name means “Rock”—does this prove papal supremacy?
Insight:
- Peter was called the Rock (Kephos) before the “on this rock” statement.
- The nickname implies toughness, not supreme authority.
- Orthodox accept Petrine primacy but not universal jurisdiction. The Ecumenical Patriarch must still get local bishops’ permission to serve: “If my bishop says to him, no, you can’t go and serve liturgy there in Lafayette, Louisiana, that’s it. He can’t.” – Fr. Stephen [109:56]

12. Ritual, Identity, and Halloween Costumes

[145:07–154:26]

Question: Is dressing up for Halloween (e.g., as Burt Reynolds) a ritual participation in a spiritual sense?
Insight:
- Ritual masking historically invoked spiritual or mythic identification (sometimes even in ancient Nephilim rites).
- Not all ritual is grave; painting your belly for a football game is ritual participation—mostly harmless.
- But some costumes, especially those embodying or exalting vice, can subtly attract or reinforce certain spirits or behaviors.
- “There is sort of a ritual process of attempting to take on at least aspects of a particular thing by dressing as it...” – Fr. Stephen [149:06]

13. Other Quick Hits

Burning bones on pagan altars by Josiah: Deliberate defilement according to pagan beliefs to prevent re-sanctification. [84:16–87:43]
Was Eglon fat or handsome? Translation ambiguity: word means “good-looking” in children, “fat” in adults—Greek LXX translates as “handsome.” [126:31–129:00]
Are women the created representation of the Holy Spirit?
- The Spirit is grammatically feminine in Hebrew but not exclusive to feminine qualities; both men and women bear God’s image. Dangerous to over-systematize.
Music’s spiritual power:
- Music, like language, art, and ritual, fundamentally shapes human consciousness; this is why it was considered dangerous or seductive by ancient authors.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Music can lead to premarital sex, and that can lead to dancing.”
– Fr. Stephen, on the quasi-moral panic about music as a potent logismos [138:34]
“If you want to pray to Father Seraphim, pray to Father Seraphim Rose. Go ahead. Okay. Go ahead... For now, just shut up.”
– Fr. Stephen, on canonization and online campaigns [82:44]
“I’ll say something incredibly spicy if it starts to get dull.”
– Fr. Stephen, tongue-in-cheek as ever [02:52]
“Calvinism takes that to a super, super problematic place.”
– Fr. Stephen, on “God’s glory” and doctrines that make God a cosmic narcissist [29:04]
“God gives us blessings. And the biggest problem with idolatry among the nations is that it begins with them giving credit to these other spirits for the blessings that God gives.”
– Fr. Stephen, on the real meaning of “giving God glory” [25:45]
“That’s not how this works, guys. That’s not how it works.”
– Fr. Andrew, on Internet campaigns for canonization [79:14]
“God didn’t create humanity to damn humanity... Christ didn’t come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.”
– Fr. Stephen, pushing back against infernalism [120:54]
“Even though he has primacy, he has to get permission from my bishop.”
– Fr. Stephen, clarifying Orthodox understanding of primacy [109:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Incense/Laity Offerings – 03:11–09:31
Dreams and the Noûs – 09:31–17:10
Glorifying God – 17:10–30:43
Marian Apparitions – 30:50–41:23
Orthodox & Catholic Division – 42:24–54:26
No Salvation Outside the Church – 56:00–64:21
Neoplatonism – 66:46–76:47
Canonization & Local Saints – 76:50–83:07
Assurance of Salvation – 87:43–96:45
Pronouns and “We” for Israel – 97:07–102:40
Peter the Rock – 102:52–109:56
Halloween, Ritual, & Burt Reynolds – 145:07–154:26

Tone and Language

The episode maintains its trademark blend of scholarly depth, acerbic wit, and folksy storytelling. Both priests lean into spicy takes and playful banter, but always in service of serious theological points and practical pastoral advice. The discussions are candid, incisive, and infused with both humility and seriousness about the faith. Listeners will find both comfort and challenge in the Fathers’ engagement, and those unfamiliar with Orthodox tradition will come away entertained but also better informed.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This summary captures the breadth of topics—sometimes heavy, sometimes light—that The Lord of Spirits tackles with unflinching honesty and humor. Whether you’re curious about Orthodox practice, interested in theological clarifications, or just love good banter, this episode is a rich and engaging resource full of profound insights, notable quotes, and memorable moments.