The Lord of Spirits: Pantheon and Pandemonium XVI – Asynchronous Q&A (June 2025)

Podcast: The Lord of Spirits
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: June 13, 2025
Episode: #117 – Pantheon and Pandemonium XVI: Asynchronous Q&A
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition

Episode Overview

This prerecorded, “SpeakPipe-palooza” episode of The Lord of Spirits is a lively, far-reaching asynchronous Q&A session. Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young address 21 listener questions, covering a sweeping range of topics in Orthodox theology, biblical interpretation, Church tradition, spiritual practice, and even cultural quirks related to Dutch cuisine. The hosts dive into nuanced discussions about salvation, ritual, saints, spiritual realities, and more, all while keeping the show’s signature wit and camaraderie.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Protestant Passover Seders & “Christian Seder” Meals

[05:41–12:50]

• Why don’t Orthodox Christians do Passover Seders like some Protestants?
  • Fr. Andrew: “Pascha is Passover. It’s redundant to celebrate it more than once. In most languages, it’s the same word.”
  • Fr. Stephen: “The modern Passover Seder borrows elements from the Christian Eucharist…when evangelicals find Christian symbolism in the Seder, it’s because the Seder took it from Christianity—not the other way around.”
  • They critique the severing of Protestantism from Christian tradition (“you don’t have a Eucharist in most evangelical circles”), and encourage diving deeper into the actual Christian lineage rather than appropriating Jewish rituals.

Notable Quote:

“Just communicating to people that ‘Pascha is Passover’ would solve a lot of these problems.”
— Fr. Stephen [07:33]

2. Solomon’s Prayer & the Temple as Talisman

[12:50–17:42]

• Is Solomon’s prayer at the Temple’s dedication self-serving?
  • The hosts discuss that while Solomon’s prayer seems pious, the context and God’s response highlight problems: Solomon’s focus is on the Temple as an object of manipulation/talisman, resembling idol praxis.
  • God corrects this: “I will be present, but I am not contained nor manipulated by a building.”
  • Cautionary tale: Israelites later treated the Temple or Ark as talismans, leading to disaster (cf. Jeremiah).

3. Dancing: Saints, Scripture, & Cultural Context

[17:42–24:24]

• Why are saints critical of dancing, yet it’s present in Orthodox and Scriptural tradition?
  • Context matters: Certain ancient or cultural forms of dance (often licentious or pagan) are condemned.
  • Community/festive or folk dances (e.g., Greek dancing at festivals, ballrooms, etc.) can be positive and community-building.
  • Reminder: Sometimes, Church canons are also practical—e.g., “clergy shouldn’t attend wedding receptions” may reflect self-interest, jokes Fr. Stephen.

Notable Quote:

“The kind of dancing the Church Fathers are speaking out against is the kind that leads to all kinds of other things…”
— Fr. Andrew [24:13]

4. Prophecy About Elam in Jeremiah

[26:23–29:51]

• Why is there a prophecy about God establishing His throne in Elam (Persia)?
  • Elam is in Persia; the prophecy points to the return of the exiles and individuals like Cyrus.
  • Discrepancies in Jeremiah text order (Greek vs. Masoretic) explained: Two versions existed and were found side-by-side at Qumran.

5. How Many Will Be Saved? On Salvation & Repentance

[30:11–36:24]

• Does “few find it” (Matthew 7) mean only a very small number are saved?
  • Distinction between “being saved” as union with God (theosis) vs. “going to heaven instead of hell.”
  • “Few find it” refers to the difficulty and effort required for real sanctification, not excluding the majority from hope.
  • Salvation is not binary; there is a continuum, with saints being models of the highest attainment.

Notable Quotes:

“Salvation is not ‘going to heaven instead of hell’—salvation is being united to God.”
— Fr. Stephen [32:43]
“We each need to do everything we can to make sure I’m not the one who ends up [in eternal condemnation] if anyone does.”
— Fr. Stephen [35:56]

6. Death vs. Non-Existence of the Soul

[37:52–39:41]

• Does a person ever “cease to exist”?
  • Orthodox (and ancient) worldview: Even after death, the human person continues to exist due to the resurrection.
  • The ancient notion of existence was about order vs. chaos, not simply “being” or “not being.”

7. Why Are Certain Saints Invoked for Certain Things?

[41:08–43:54]

• Saints become associated with causes or miracles (e.g., St. Phanourios for lost items) often through the experience of their help and the spread of popular devotion.
• Sometimes connections are biographically obvious, sometimes “darkly comic” (as in Western pairings).
• Veneration is grounded in synergy between God’s will, the prayers of saints, and human need.

8. God’s Providence, Free Will, & Evil

[47:25–53:41]
Dutch Q&A Segment

• Does God allow evil “for the sake of free will”—even at the risk of cosmic destruction? Has everything (even evil) ‘passed through His hands’?
  • Fr. Stephen addresses Dutch Calvinist stoicism (accepting everything as direct from God) and its secular counter-reactions.
  • Key: God brings good out of evil, but part of our free will is how we receive what happens to us—our response shapes whether an event ultimately becomes for our benefit or not.
  • Christians are called to be instruments in God’s work of redemption, sometimes by actively opposing evil.

Notable Quote:

“It’s not the thing itself that happened that’s good or bad; it’s how you received it and what you did with it.”
— Fr. Stephen [52:43]

9. Gideon’s Ephod—Idol, Royal Ambition, Divination, or All?

[53:58–57:40]

• Was Gideon’s ephod a form of idolatry or something else?
  • Gideon is described as a “shifty character” who tries to set himself as king (evidenced by naming his son Abimelech—”my father is king”).
  • The ephod likely symbolizes a bid for priestly or kingly status and is a “snare” to family, rather than an innocent devotional object.

10. Veneration of Icons & Rabbinical Judaism’s Response

[58:05–61:41]

• Did ancient Jews oppose Christian icon veneration—and why?
  • Talmudic tractate (763A) contains a critique of lining up to kiss idols, which is not pagan but is a Christian practice.
  • This is evidence of early Jewish efforts to distinguish themselves from Christians and to move away from their own prior iconographic traditions.

11. Is Orthodox Christianity a “Purity Cult”?

[61:41–66:23]

• Replying to the concern that Orthodox focus on purification/righteousness equals “purity cult”
  • Fr. Stephen explains his translation choices (”purification” for dikaiosyne): This aligns with Jewish Greek texts (e.g., Daniel) and not later Roman law frameworks.
  • The deeper sense: God’s “justice” means restoration and putting things right, not legal acquittal.

12. Patristic Interpretation & Layered Allegory

[66:23–73:01]

• Can the same Old Testament image be applied in many different, even non-contextual, ways?
  • Church Fathers often comment on OT patterns that are fulfilled in multiple ways (e.g., the burning bush as image for Theotokos, sacraments, etc.).
  • Patristic interpretation is not arbitrary: They often have middle-terms connecting original meaning and New Testament fulfillment, even if not always spelled out.

13. Angelic Influence vs. The Holy Spirit

[73:01–76:57]

• How to distinguish between inspiration from the Holy Spirit vs. angels?
  • Most of God’s actions use means: angels, people, or other created things; rarely does God act “directly.”
  • Ultimately, all good is from God; for practical spiritual life, it may not matter whether a thought is mediated by an angel or the Holy Spirit Himself.

14. The Dutch Dutchness Call-Out

[77:32–79:51]

• A lighthearted interlude where a Dutch listener quizzes Fr. Stephen about his “Dutchness” via food (stroopwafels, hagelslag, etc.)
• Fr. Stephen robustly defends his Dutch bona fides and shares family traditions and recipes.

15. Uncomfortable Half: Delicate Theological & Pastoral Questions

a. Angels Attracted to Women (Genesis 6/Fallen Angels)

[81:44–85:23]

• Feminine archetype (“filling with life”) relates to the symbolism of fallen angels disturbing the God-ordained order.
• Not about carnal bodies but cosmic order and the spiritual resonance between fallen spirit and ungoverned life.

b. Stealing When Hungry

[85:36–89:56]

• Torah allows breaking commandments (even stealing) to save life (Greek Deuteronomy, patristic/Jewish commentary).
• Proverbs discusses punishment as a description of (corrupt) common practice, not divinely-mandated justice.

c. Holy Spirit Descending “in Bodily Form” as a Dove

[90:21–93:32]

• The Greek means “bodily” as in “having visible appearance,” not “physical incarnation.”
• Iconography uses dove as visual shorthand; not implying material transformation.

d. “Love Believes All Things”—Marriage, Trust, and Abuse

[94:18–101:04]

• “Believes all things” is better rendered as “faithful in all things.”
• Love does not mean gullibility or enabling another’s sin—love helps the other toward salvation, which may require boundaries and accountability.
• Strong pastoral note: Talk to your own priest about relationship specifics.

e. Virginity and Physical, Spiritual, or Monastic Purity

[103:30–110:03]

• Virginity (parthenos) in Greek originally meant “young woman,” expanded in time to unmarried men, and by the 3rd–4th c., to celibate monastics, regardless of physiological state.
• The ever-virginity of the Theotokos is emblematic of a life wholly dedicated to God, not anatomical minutiae.

f. Are Children from IVF “Tainted”?

[111:47–115:37]

• Fr. Andrew: “Children conceived through IVF or related means are NOT uniquely spiritually affected or ‘tainted’; the ancient notion of giants was about raising toward demonic ends, not conception itself.”
• Nonetheless, many moral and ethical problems exist with reproductive technologies, and adoption is lauded as deeply Christian.

g. Trading Saints Across Orthodox/Catholic Boundaries

[115:57–127:16]

• It's possible for saints to be cross-listed (e.g., Orthodox martyrs in Catholic calendars or rare cases like St. Isaac of Syria).
• In Orthodoxy, saints must model the fullness of Orthodox faith; commemoration is more than learning—it’s about exemplarity and intercession.
• Roman Catholic canonization is less tethered to doctrinal consistency (examples: Joan of Arc, Gregory Palamas). Martyrs may be a special case where conversion at martyrdom is recognized.
• Local synods may canonize figures meaningful for their communities—nuance and context are crucial.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Protestant Seders:

  “You're sitting here parsing the words of the modern Seder, trying to connect it to Christ. You know it’s directly connected to Christ the way we celebrate the Eucharist in every Divine Liturgy!”
  — Fr. Stephen De Young [10:34]

• Solomon’s Prayer:

  “The key is…Solomon is not really thinking about the relationship between the true God and a temple in the correct way.”
  — Fr. Stephen [16:52]

• Dancing & the Fathers:

  “What you described is wonderful and lovely and good…What the church Fathers are speaking out against is the kind [of dancing] that leads to all kinds of other things…”
  — Fr. Andrew [24:13]

• Salvation Continuum:

  “No one ever achieves perfect repentance. The people we've glorified as saints would be the first ones to tell you that…”
  — Fr. Stephen [33:53]

• On Divine Providence & Evil:

  “It’s not the thing itself that happened that’s good or bad, it’s how you receive it and what you did with it.”
  — Fr. Stephen [52:43]

• On Virginity & Theotokos:

  “When we talk about the Ever Virginity of the Theotokos, we're not primarily talking about her anatomy…we're saying she lived her whole life dedicated to God.”
  — Fr. Stephen [109:26]

• On ‘Trading Saints’:

  “Venerating saints is not just about learning something from them. It’s about holding them up as an exemplar of the Orthodox faith.”
  — Fr. Andrew [119:05]

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:41]: Seder meals/Protestant vs. Orthodox Pascha
• [12:50]: Solomon’s prayer & Temple theology
• [17:42]: Dancing – good, bad, and ugly
• [26:23]: Jeremiah’s prophecy to Elam
• [30:11]: How many will be saved?
• [41:08]: Patron saints for particular needs
• [47:25]: God’s providence, evil, and free will (Dutch Calvinism)
• [53:58]: Gideon and the mystery of his ephod
• [58:05]: Rabbinic Judaism on icon veneration
• [61:41]: Is Orthodoxy a “purity religion”?
• [66:23]: Multiple meanings/allegory in patristic exegesis
• [73:01]: Angels or Holy Spirit? Discerning spiritual inspiration
• [77:32]: Calling out Fr. Stephen’s Dutchness
• [81:44]: Uncomfortable questions: angels, sex, stealing, Holy Spirit, marriage, virginity, IVF
• [115:57]: Can the Orthodox and Catholic Churches “trade” saints?

Tone and Delivery

The episode is highly engaging—smart, candid, irreverent at points (especially around Dutch humor and cultural banter), but always pastorally grounded. The hosts are unafraid to get technical (especially on textual/linguistic or historical topics), but always return to spiritual application and the ethos of the Church.

Summary Takeaways

• Orthodox Christianity is not a “purity cult” but rather a tradition centered on union with God through lived faith, ritual, and the transformative synergy of divine grace.
• Deep engagement with tradition—through feasts, saints, sacraments, and Scripture—unlocks authentic Christian life, not appropriation from other religious rites or purely rationalistic approaches.
• Difficult ethical/theological questions require nuance, context, and, often, willingness to live in the tension that comes from hundreds of years of Christian lived experience.
• Saints are not just moral exemplars, but spiritual co-workers and intercessors; their recognition involves ecclesial discernment, not just personal admiration or diplomatic gesture.
• Always, in spiritual struggle or puzzling doctrine, the key is to go deeper into Christ, the Church, repentance, and love as faithfulness and the pursuit of theosis.

For further questions, or to submit your own, visit speakpipe.com/LordOfSpirits, or email the show at lordofspirits@ancientfaith.com.