Prophet Motive

Fri May 27 2022

What is prophecy? Who is a prophet? Do prophets predict the future? Does prophecy still happen in our times? What is the difference between a prophet and an apostle? How can we recognize a true prophet or prophecy? Join Fr. Stephen De Young and Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick as they look at the Biblical vision of the prophetic ministry.

Transcript

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (0:00)

He will be a staff for the righteous with which for them to stand and not to fall. And he will be the light of the nations and the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All who dwell on the earth will fall down and worship him. And they will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of spirits.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (0:21)

The modern world doesn't acknowledge, but is nevertheless haunted by spirits, angels, demons and saints. In our time, many yearn to break free of the prison of a flat secular materialism, to see and to know reality as it truly is. What is this spiritual reality like? How do we engage with it? Well, how do we permeate everyday life with spiritual presence? Orthodox Christian priests, Father Andrew Stephen Damick and Father Stephen DeYoung host this live call in show focused on enchantment in creation, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Welcome to the Lord of Spirits.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:06)

Good evening. Christ is risen. He truly is risen. Welcome giant killers and dragon slayers. You are listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast. My co Host, Father Steven DeYoung is with me from Lafayette, Louisiana. We are recording live, but we're not going to be taking any phone calls tonight. That said, if you leave a question on our Facebook or our ancient faith YouTube streams and we spot it, it is possible that we might take and respond. So tonight our topic is prophets. What is prophecy? Who is a prophet? Do prophets predict the future? Does prophecy still happen in our times? What's the difference between a prophet and apostle? How can we recognize a true prophet or prophecy? What about people who claim to have prophecies even now? So it's been a while since we did this. Few episodes maybe, but we always love going back to the ancient near east and it turns out that there is a larger context for prophecy than just what we see in the Bible. So where are we starting tonight?

Father Stephen Damick (2:06)

Father Stephen Well, I'm starting with a disclaimer, okay. Because I know ancient faith is a big tent, right. You have lots of different podcasts, lots of different voices, lots of different opinions. But that guy whose podcast you were playing right before we went on the air.

Father Stephen DeYoung (2:25)

Oh, yes, that guy.

Father Stephen Damick (2:26)

I do not want to be associated with him in any way.

Father Stephen DeYoung (2:30)

Right.

Father Stephen Damick (2:30)

Summary

The Lord of Spirits — Prophet Motive (May 27, 2022)

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Podcast Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition

Overview

This episode dives deep into the ancient and biblical understanding of prophecy, prophets, and their relationship to the unseen (spiritual) world. The hosts explore how prophecy functioned in both pagan and Jewish contexts, how the phenomenon is distinguished from other spiritual practices such as divination, and trace its continuity and transformation into the New Testament and Orthodox Christianity today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Ancient Near Eastern Context of Prophecy

Prophecy Pre-dates the Bible:
Prophets and prophecy are established concepts centuries before biblical records—earliest written records date to the 18th century BC, but the role of prophet is already well-known.
[03:23] Fr. Andrew: “There are already multiple terms in different Semitic languages for prophets and prophecy. The idea of a prophet is a known quantity.”
Divination vs. Prophecy:
Prophecy is a subspecies of divination—attempts to access knowledge or wisdom from the divine/spiritual realm. But, prophecy in the ancient Near East was less focused on technical methods (e.g., astrology, haruspicy—reading entrails, or watching animal behavior) and more on a direct relationship with a specific deity.
[05:03] Fr. Andrew: “Prophecy as such is sort of a subspecies of divination... but it’s not really about predicting the future.”
Specialists and Techniques:
Most pagan priests were not preachers or pastoralists but specialists who maintained techniques and knowledge for reading signs, omens, dreams, astrology, etc.
[10:54] Fr. Andrew: “Most pagan priests, they were not like preaching sermons and giving counseling...[they] were specialists.”
Prophets as Direct Conduits:
Prophets, unlike other diviners, had an ongoing relationship with the deity—either as “visionary” (external revelation) or “oracular”/possessed (internal) prophets.
[13:11] Fr. Andrew: “...Prophecy did not involve that kind of technique...It was about a direct, more direct encounter and direct relationship between the person and the deity.”
Prophets as Outsiders:
Prophets often stood outside the political/religious establishment—able to challenge the king or priestly caste because their authority derived directly from the deity. [31:15] Fr. Andrew: "The prophet has this outsider role to the establishment."

2. Examples from the Ancient World

Mari Letters (18th c. BC):
Prophecies written down, showing both male and female prophets, and establishing the idea of “writing prophets”—a precedent for biblical prophecy.
- Sample Prophecy [22:07]:
  Fr. Stephen reads an example where a prophet of Adad delivers a message through a scribe:
  “Am I not Adad, Lord of Aleppo, who raised you in my lap and restored you to your ancestral throne?...”
Assyrian Nineveh (7th c. BC):
Similar function of prophecy—prophets outside of the king/priestly structure. Relevant for understanding Jonah’s reception in Nineveh. [34:50] Fr. Andrew: “...The Ninevites...had this cultural idea [of prophets]...This was a phenomenon they know about.”
Neo-Assyrian Terms for Prophets:
Various terms in Akkadian and Assyrian refer to prophets—mukhu/mukutu (one in a frenzy), apulum (the answerer), ragimu (the shouter/yeller), and the gender-bending assinu.
[39:14] Fr. Andrew: "Mukhu...means to go insane, basically, or to enter into a frenzy."
Gender and Prophecy:
Inspired encounters can induce liminality—even gender transformation or androgyny (see Assyrian “assinu” and Norse/Odinic parallels with cross-dressing and prophecy). [44:47] Fr. Andrew: "These were people in Assyria who were men, but then the encounter they have with the spiritual realm causes them...to sort of no longer be men."

3. Prophecy in the Greek World

Greek Oracles:
Oracles, especially the Pythia at Delphi possessed by Apollo, were the dominant form of Greek prophecy. [71:32] Fr. Andrew: "The Oracle of Delphi, of course, is the most famous one probably...who was believed to be possessed by Apollo."
The Blind Seer Motif:
Tiresias, the archetype, is made a prophet through divine encounters, endures transformations and blindness (parallels to Odin and other traditions). [75:29] Fr. Andrew: “...Theresius, now a woman, decides to make the best of it and becomes a priestess...”
Prophecy as Dangerous/Destructive:
Encounters with pagan deities often lead to madness, mutilation, or marginalization—prophets as liminal or damaged figures. [78:52] Fr. Andrew: "This is sort of a dark thing. This involves madness, this involves mutilation."

4. Prophecy in the Old Testament and Israel

Hebrew Terms for “Prophet”:
- Navi/Naviim: From Akkadian “nabu,” to call out.
- Hazel/roa: Seer, indicative of vision.
- Neva: Prophetess or the wife of a prophet.
Prophets Outside the Establishment:
Like the pagan world, OT prophets stand outside/over against kings and priests, deriving authority from God. [124:28] Fr. Andrew: “Their authority derives from that direct relationship. And so they stand as sort of an outsider over against the king and the high priest...”
Prophets Form Communities:
Evidence of prophetic “schools” or communities (e.g., Samuel, Elijah, Elisha).
[125:22] Fr. Andrew: “...prophets form communities. Right...you get some kind of extreme forms of this.”
Experience with God is Transformative, but Not Destructive:
Prophets are set apart, but married, have children; their difference is spiritual, not mutilating or antisocial.
[105:24] Fr. Andrew: “…they have wives and children. So it’s not that they're made something inhuman or subhuman...but that they’re now a human who lives and acts and understands things differently because they have this different perspective now.”
False Prophets vs. Prophets of Other Gods:
False prophets (claiming, but not actually, speaking for God) vs. true pagan prophets (really possessed, but by other spirits).
[117:23] Fr. Andrew: “So the BAAL prophets. Right. Aren't false prophets. They're really prophets of baal....these false prophets are people who are not prophets at all.”
Criteria for Authentic Prophecy:
- Must have direct encounter with the divine (not derived via technique).
- Must then be sent with a message.
- False prophecy is condemned—Old Testament penalty is death; New Testament penalty is excommunication. [110:19] Fr. Stephen (quoting Jeremiah 23): “For who among them has stood in the counsel of the Lord to see and hear his word?...I did not send the prophets, yet they ran...”

5. Balaam: The Pagan Prophet in the Bible

Balaam Functions as a Pagan Prophet:
Hired by King Balak to curse Israel but only able to prophesy blessings (Numbers 22–24); ends up, through manipulative advice, serving as an archetype of false teaching and apostasy in Christian tradition (see 2 Peter, Jude, Revelation).
[53:16] Fr. Andrew: "So in numbers 22...he’s trying to ride over...to curse Israel. And the angel of the Lord comes and blocks his pass...Balaam can't see him, but the donkey can."
- Balaam’s key messianic prophecy:
  [58:39] Fr. Stephen: “A star shall come out of Jacob and a scepter shall rise out of Israel...” (Numbers 24:17)
- Inscriptional evidence confirms Balaam was a known regional figure (Deir Allah inscription, 9th/8th c. BC).

6. Prophecy in the New Testament

Not Just an Old Testament Phenomenon:
Prophets continue into NT and Church. John the Baptist is the telos (fullness/maturity) of the prophets, not their absolute end. [131:58] Fr. Andrew: “St. John the Forerunner being the culmination of the prophets or even sometimes the end...but...the fullness of the prophets and fullness, not...like the last one...”
Acts and Early Church Prophets:
Example: Agabus appears in Acts 11 and 21, explicitly called a prophet, functioning in continuity with OT prophetic behavior (“thus says the Holy Spirit...”). [133:19] Fr. Stephen: “Thus says the Holy Spirit, this is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt...”
Charismatic Gifts and Prophecy:
St. Paul lists prophecy as an active gift (e.g., 1 Corinthians 12 and 14). He sharply distinguishes prophecy (for the faithful) from speaking in tongues (for outsiders), a distinction sometimes obscured in modern charismatic movements. [137:17] Fr. Andrew: “St. Paul is very deliberately trying to distinguish the gift of prophecy from the gift of tongues...”
St. Paul as the Paradigm of the Christian Prophet:
His “conversion” on the road to Damascus is, in fact, a paradigmatic prophetic call—he encounters Christ, is sent, receives revelation directly, stands outside (even over) the apostolic establishment at times. Parallels abound between Paul’s calling and that of Moses, Jeremiah, and Isaiah. [148:38] Fr. Stephen (comparing Paul to Jeremiah): "Now, the word of the Lord came to me...before I formed you in the womb, I knew you...I appointed you a prophet to the nations..."

7. Prophetic Experience in Christian Tradition

Visions/Dreams:
Visions are not hallucinations but genuine perceptions (noetic, via the nous) of spiritual reality; dreams can also be revelatory. [154:44] Fr. Andrew: “A vision is noetic perception... which most of us who are prophets don't do all the time. Right.”
Monastics as Prophetic Continuation:
The primary context of prophetic experience in the Church is the monastic tradition—monastics as communities of “prophets.” This is especially true among those who live as holy fools or in extreme asceticism (pillar saints, hermits). [160:04] Fr. Andrew: “This is a function of the monastic tradition in the church...these are direct continuation of the prophetic communities, the old covenant.”
Prophets as Correctives, Not Revolutionaries:
Prophets stand outside, correct the establishment, but do not destroy community structures or seek revolution. [165:57] Fr. Stephen: “He’s not a revolutionary, he’s a renewer. ...It’s really about calling people back, helping them remember and obey again the Lord.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Most biblical scholarship is kind of goofy.”
— Fr. Andrew [26:05], in a commentary on modern form criticism and the reduction of biblical prophecy to “templates.”
“Balaam’s powers of divine vision are apparently inferior to that of your average riding donkey.”
— Fr. Andrew [55:39]
“If Benny Hinn wanders the streets of, say, Omaha naked for 7 years, I will believe he is actually a prophet.”
— Fr. Andrew [127:40]
“A vision is noetic perception... it’s not a hallucination but actually perceiving a spiritual reality.”
— Fr. Andrew [154:44]
“We don't make TV shows and movies about an honest cop who follows all the rules. We make them about the tough cop who plays by his own set of rules. ...We all want to be Batman working outside the system to bring justice.”
— Fr. Andrew [177:06] (on American cultural bias and false prophecy)
“Seek the experience of God. ...If we pursue that, it may be, at the time of God’s choosing ... He may reveal Himself to us. ...We may never receive the gift of prophecy ... but we just might find salvation for ourselves.”
— Fr. Andrew [182:47] (Final summary)

Structural Timestamps for Major Segments

00:00–02:00: Introduction and premise—the reality of the spiritual world and prophecy
02:40–16:00: Ancient Near Eastern background; prophecy vs. other divination
16:11–37:38: Examples—Mari Letters, Nineveh/Assyria, Greek parallels; social role of prophets
38:00–50:55: The words for ‘prophet’; liminal/transformative nature of ecstatic prophecy (gender, madness, marginalization)
50:55–70:34: Case Study—Balaam as the pagan prophet; archetype for false prophecy and apostasy
70:34–78:52: Greek world—Oracles, Tiresias, destructive nature of pagan prophetic encounters
78:53–131:00: Biblical Prophecy in the Old Testament—terms, function, differentiation from paganism, authority, role vis-à-vis king/priest, prophetic communities, false prophets
131:00–159:27: New Testament and Early Church—prophets in Acts, Pauline prophetic paradigm, tongues vs prophecy, experience of God, monastic continuation, visions vs hallucinations
159:27–End: Prophecy today—monasticism, holy fools, the prophetic as corrective rather than revolutionary force, discernment, call to personal repentance

Final Thoughts

Prophecy is About Divine Encounter, Not Technique:
True prophecy is rooted in a direct encounter with God; techniques, predictions, or clever “decodings” do not equal prophecy.
Prophets are Fundamentally Outsiders, Not Power-Seekers:
Their authority comes from God, their task is to call back to obedience and renewal, not destruction or revolution.
Vision is Real Perception of Spiritual Reality:
Visions and dreams in Scripture are not “fake experiences,” but noetic encounters with the real, though unseen, aspects of God’s world.
Seek the Experience of God by Repentance and Love:
Do not run with a message unless sent; cultivate humility, seek Christ, and let God grant gifts as He wills.

“The way that one seeks the gift of prophecy is you seek the experience of God. …If we do that, we may never receive the gift of prophecy. …but we just might find salvation for ourselves…”
— Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick [182:47]

(End of Detailed Episode Summary)