Purifications of the Law - The Lord of Spirits

Transcript

Narrator (0:00)

He will be a staff for the righteous with which for them to stand and not to fall. And he will be the light of the nations and the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All who dwell on the earth will fall down and worship him. And they will praise and bless and celebrate with song the lord of spirits. First Enoch, chapter 48, verses 4 through 5. The modern world doesn't acknowledge, but is nevertheless haunted by spirits but angels, demons and saints. In our time, many yearn to break free of the prison of a flat secular materialism, to see and to know reality as it truly is. What is this spiritual reality like? How do we engage with it? Well, how do we permeate everyday life with spiritual presence? Orthodox Christian priests Father Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen DeYoung host this live call in show focused on enchantment in creation, the. The union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Welcome to the Lord of Spirits.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:05)

I feel like one of these days we should do like a cold open, you know, instead of. I don't know. What do you think, Father? Just like, you know, I mean, it'll.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:14)

Probably happen eventually that just. We go live and don't realize it. We're talking about something else.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:20)

It's true.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:21)

We've had the opposite.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:25)

So.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:25)

Well, all right.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:27)

Well, good evening. Wait for a happy accident, all of.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:29)

You, you giant killers, you dragon slayers, you warders off of the unclean.

Father Stephen DeYoung (1:35)

You are like a warder off of the unclean. Is that like the guy who follows you around ringing a bell, yelling, unclean, unclean. Exactly.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:46)

Yes. Followed by, you know, bring out your dead.

Father Andrew Stephen Damick (1:50)

Yeah. This is the Lord of Spirits podcast. That other voice you just heard is The Very Reverend Dr. Steven DeYoung, the scourge of Semiramis. And he's with me straight from the swamp in Lafayette, Louisiana, where they are under 9 inches of snow for the first time in recorded history.

Summary

The Lord of Spirits Podcast: "Purifications of the Law"

Episode Date: January 24, 2025
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition—Understanding ritual purity and uncleanness in Orthodox Christianity and its roots in Old Testament Law.

Episode Overview

This episode addresses the nature and significance of ritual impurity in the Old Testament and its continuity or transformation within the Orthodox Christian tradition. Frs. Andrew and Stephen debunk modern misconceptions about purity laws, clarify the distinction between ritual and moral impurity, and explore how these concepts remain relevant in Christian worship, especially concerning preparation for encountering God.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Relevance of Purifications (03:03–04:06)

Introduction to Ritual Purity
- The hosts begin by challenging the popular notion that Old Testament purification laws became obsolete with the coming of Christ.
- Quote (Fr. Andrew, 03:03): “There are some who say the church is in no way bound by either [the Law’s] stipulations or its ethos... But is this true? Are all those Levitical commandments... just obsolete?”
- Fr. Stephen: “No.” (04:06)
Clarification: Transformation, not Abolition
- Jesus did not abolish the Law but fulfilled and transformed aspects of it.
- Marcionism—the belief the Old Testament was discarded—is dismissed (“Take that, Marcionists.” — Fr. Andrew, 06:32).

2. Sin vs. Uncleanness: Misconceptions and Clarifications (07:29–09:38)

Public Confusion
- Most conflate sin with uncleanness, assuming all uncleanness in the Torah is morally bad.
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 08:14): “The biggest thing is conflating the concept of sin with the concept of uncleanness per se.”
Two Types of Uncleanness
- Moral Uncleanness: Caused by sinful actions (e.g., murder, idolatry, sexual immorality). This makes one unfit for God's presence.
- Ritual or Ceremonial Uncleanness: Contracted through daily, ordinary activities (bodily fluids, touching dead bodies, etc.). Not a moral failing.
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 13:53): “Moral uncleanness is avoidable, but ceremonial uncleanness... is pretty much unavoidable.”

3. What Makes Someone Ceremonially Unclean? (From 17:10 onwards)

Examples from the Torah (26:17–39:39)
- Touching unclean things (e.g., dead bodies, moldy bread).
- Contact with bodily fluids (including menstruation, seminal emissions).
- Childbirth, various skin diseases (“leprosy”).
- Eating or drinking something unclean (even unwittingly).
- Burying the dead.
- Defecation (“There were groups in the first century... so serious about not doing anything unclean on the Sabbath that they would not defecate on the Sabbath.” — Fr. Stephen, 40:02).
Clarity: Not Sinful
- These occurrences are ordinary and expected; becoming unclean isn't a moral failure.
- Quote (Fr. Andrew, 19:13): “No one’s going to say, ‘You buried your dead father so now you are evil.’ The opposite.”

4. Ritual Uncleanness is Unavoidable—Ritual Purification as Restoration (29:57–32:01)

Uncleanness as being “common” rather than “holy”; it is not about negativity but about setting apart for worship.
Distinctions are not “good vs. bad,” but “holy vs. common.”
Chalice Analogy (Fr. Stephen, 24:20): “We have a chalice for celebrating the Eucharist... but my Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan collector cup is just a drinking cup... One has been set apart... It is holy.”
Preparation and washing enable participation in worship, not as exclusion, but as re-integration.

5. Restoration—What Happens When You’re Unclean? (41:12 and following)

Sin only arises if someone refuses the proper rites of purification and approaches God unprepared.
Examples from Leviticus 7:19-21 highlight the gravity of violating this (46:53).
- Quote (Fr. Andrew, 46:53): “If you’re in an excommunicated state and you go and commune... then you’re anathema—thrown out.”
Sin Offerings Explained
- Sometimes the Torah prescribes a sin offering after uncleanness—not for the uncleanness itself, but for sin accrued during time away from the community and worship.
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 44:09): “Now that you’re being restored... the sin offering is about those sins and that repentance that couldn’t take place for the last... that you were separated from the community and its life.”

6. Q&A Highlight: Postpartum Purification Rituals (55:00–71:23)

Caller Georgia asks about Old Testament impurity, Orthodox prayers after childbirth, and misunderstandings of Theotokos’ “giving birth without corruption.”
Hosts clarify:
- The prayers’ language refers to ritual (not moral) impurity.
- The mother’s “uncleanness” is not sinful; the 40 days at home (post-birth) is a period of rest, integration, and spiritual re-entry.
- The “sin offering” and cleansing prayers restore the mother’s communion with God’s people.
- In the Church, all children (male and female) are now given “firstborn” status; both are churchable (male/female infants brought to the altar).
Memorable moment
- Fr. Stephen (65:36): “Women are firstborn sons in the Church. There’s no second class... which is why the ancient Church used to bring female infants into the altar.”

7. Who Can Enter the Altar? Rite, Blessing, and Purpose (75:13–81:08)

Call from Fr. Emmanuel: Explores who may enter the altar and how clergy (and lay altar servers) purify themselves.
Hosts stress:
- Only those blessed by the bishop and for a particular purpose may enter.
- Even clergy have requirements—ritual hand-washing, abstention, being “at peace with all”—signifying spiritual and physical preparation.
- The practice of altar boys as a “training ground” for future clergy, not based on inherent gender restrictions.

8. Moral Uncleanness: Cain as the Archetype (81:22–109:10)

The Example of Cain
- Second Temple literature and Christian tradition see Cain as the “archetype” of moral uncleanness, responsible for “spreading evil,” and even the cause of the flood (see Wisdom 10:3–4, 88:10).
- Some ritual impurity becomes permanent (e.g., murder, grave sacrilege), barring one from certain sacred functions (e.g., David barred from building the temple despite repentance).
- Permanent Impurity
  - Some sins leave a lasting ritual effect—absolution only comes at death.
  - The concept of “standing at a remove” as part of repentance—being excommunicated until death for especially grave sins (canons of the Church).
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 105:48): “The state of being ceremonially unclean... is itself part of the repentance.”

9. Christian Transformation of Purification—the Role of Baptism (108:22–110:29)

Ritual Washings vs. Baptism
- Old Testament ritual washings did not erase moral uncleanness; only external/ceremonial.
- Christian baptism is different: it truly cleanses moral and ceremonial uncleanness. This is why it’s done once.
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 108:44): “Baptism... for the forgiveness of sins... is talking about washing away moral and moral ceremonial uncleanness.”

10. Ritual Purity in Orthodox Practice — Now and Always (112:40–114:09; 119:22–125:36)

Purification Remains
- Despite the universality of Christ’s atonement, distinctions of clean/unclean remain meaningful (cf. 2 Corinthians 6:17).
- There are still “ceremonially unclean things” (feces, corpses, etc.) and acts of ritual purification (e.g., churching after childbirth, hand-washing before services).
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 121:12): “There’s no such thing as a holy toilet... Doing these common things isn’t bad; it isn’t wrong.”
Practical Applications
- The tradition of refraining from Communion during menstruation parallels rules for men (cf. Leviticus 15).
- These rules are between spiritual children and their spiritual fathers—“not to be enforced upon others” (Fr. Andrew, 125:24).
- The focus should be on restoration and return, not exclusion.
- Quote (Fr. Stephen, 126:28): “The focus of Orthodox Christianity is on the returning.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Jesus didn’t toss any stuff out... That’s very King Jamesy.”
—Fr. Stephen & Fr. Andrew bantering (04:13-04:26)
“This is not a moral category.”
—Fr. Stephen, on ceremonial uncleanness (12:19)
“You do not enforce that upon other people.”
—Fr. Andrew, on piety and discipline regarding ritual purity (125:24)
“The action [of churching the infant] is about an offering. It’s not about ordination.”
—Fr. Andrew (67:40)
“Our focus is always on separation. The focus of Orthodox Christianity is on the returning.”
—Fr. Stephen (125:24)

Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |:----|:------------| | 03:03–04:06 | Introduction, Questioning Dropping Ritual Purity in Christian Life | | 07:29–09:38 | Defining Sin vs. Uncleanness | | 17:10–32:01 | Practical examples from Torah; what causes uncleanness | | 41:12–46:46 | When uncleanness does become sin; Levitical sanctions | | 55:00–71:23 | Caller Georgia on churching after childbirth; explanation of prayers, traditions | | 75:13–81:08 | Caller Fr. Emmanuel on entering the altar and clergy purity | | 81:22–110:29 | Moral uncleanness, Cain, and permanent consequences; differentiation; baptism’s unique power | | 112:40–114:09 | Atonement in the New Covenant, Day of Atonement parallel, ongoing need for purification | | 119:22–125:36 | Contemporary implications and the focus on restoration |

Closing Thoughts: The Spiritual Purpose of Purification

The point of ritual purity, past and present, is not legalistic exclusion but preparation for intimacy and communion with God.
Preparation, purification, and the rhythm of returning from the “common” to the “holy” are at the heart of Christian worship and life.
Quote (Fr. Andrew, 133:28): “All of this repentance, all of this purification, is aimed at getting us ready for [intimacy with God].”

Suggested Further Listening

Day of Atonement episode: "The Priest Shall Make Atonement" (referenced—see for a deep dive on Old Testament atonement and its fulfillment)
Previous episodes on sin, repentance, and the union of seen and unseen worlds.

Final Words

Fr. Stephen:
“It’s okay to live a normal life in the world as long as when the time comes, we set that aside, we prepare ourselves, we purify ourselves, and we come again into the presence of God.” (140:16)

Fr. Andrew:
“Far from the idea of ritual uncleanness and purification being left behind… really, everything we are doing as Christians in the New Covenant is... we’re being cleansed so we can have this intimacy, this communion with God.” (132:28)

This episode offers one of the clearest, most compassionate explanations for why ancient practices of purification continue to matter—not as dead law, but as a path into deeper, more meaningful communion with God and others.