The Lord of Spirits: "Soon the Water Will Come"
Episode Date: September 16, 2025
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young

Episode Overview

This fifth anniversary episode of The Lord of Spirits explores flood stories from the ancient world, with a special focus on the relationship between the Genesis Flood narrative and its ancient Near Eastern (ANE) parallels. The discussion ranges from Sumerian, Akkadian, and Babylonian flood epics to the Platonic myth of Atlantis and even the Norse Edda. The conversation highlights how Orthodox Christian tradition understands these stories, how biblical narratives interact with and invert their pagan counterparts, and why the historicity of the Flood is less significant for Christian faith than the spiritual realities these stories express.

Major Themes & Purposes

• Biblical Flood & Ancient Myths: Examining flood narratives from Mesopotamia, Greece, and beyond, and how the Genesis Flood both participates in and subverts these traditions.
• Orthodox Interpretation & Tradition: Understanding how the tradition preserves the original context and meaning of biblical stories.
• What Matters in Interpretation: The importance of faithfulness and spiritual transformation over literal historicity or scientific details.

Detailed Discussion & Key Insights

1. Anniversary Banter & Listener Engagement

[04:24-06:13]

• The show opens with playful, self-referential humor, marking the fifth anniversary and lampooning their own notoriety.
• "This episode on Ancient Flood Stories is our special gift to you." (Fr. Andrew, 04:24)
• Requests for anniversary gifts—mostly "cash" (Fr. Stephen), setting a relaxed and joking tone.

2. Introducing the Flood Topic

[08:28-10:29]

• The hosts note they've never dedicated an episode to the Flood, despite frequent references.
• "We've talked about stuff that happened right before the flood, leading up to the flood, after the flood… but now we're going to stop talking around the issue and address it directly." (Fr. Stephen, 09:10)

3. Sumerian Flood Story

[10:29-16:35]

• Earliest written flood story extant; tablet at University of Pennsylvania, dated to 1600 BC, found at Nippur.
• Details the difference between "Sumer" (culture, language, region) and "Akkad."
• Ziusudra ("he of long life") is the Sumerian Flood survivor, a priest-king, whose survival impresses the gods.
• "According to the Sumerian Kings list, Ubar Tutu was the king of Shurupak for 18,900 years... his reign was cut off by the flood." (Fr. Stephen, 22:51)
• Emphasis on mythic numerology and legendary pre-flood ages.

4. Atrahasis Epic & The Purpose of Humanity

[27:45-41:13]

• Most commonly attested ancient Mesopotamian flood story.
• Gods create humans as a slave race to do work they don't want to do—a theme in stark contrast to Genesis.
• Flawed and destructive gods—especially Enlil, whose annoyance at human noise prompts the Flood.
• Various failed attempts to exterminate humanity before the Flood (plague, famine) subverted by the wisdom of the god Ea (Akkadian Enki).
• "One of the folks in the YouTube chat says, so gods can create humans but not earplugs? Apparently." (Fr. Andrew, 40:29)

5. Epic of Gilgamesh

[52:00-56:49]

• Utnapishtim, the flood hero, is a wise king, not a mere survivor; the flood saga is secondary to his status as an immortal.
• "Utnapishtim, who is the flood survivor in the Epic of Gilgamesh in Akkadian, basically means the same thing as Ziusudra in Sumerian." (Fr. Stephen, 54:01)
• Scenes with sending out birds, immortality denied to the epic's main hero Gilgamesh.

6. Berossus & Transmission of the Flood Myth

[56:49-67:10]

• Berossus (3rd century BC) records a Babylonian flood story for the Greek-speaking world.
• "Berossus says part of the boat still exists in Armenia and you can go see it... people go and scrape the pitch off and use it in spell casting." (Fr. Stephen, 66:24)
• The adaptation and evolution of flood stories into new cultural and religious contexts.

7. Q&A on Sources and Interpretation

[72:29-82:52]

• Questions on the Documentary Hypothesis (JEDP): Fr. Stephen rejects its utility for Orthodox Christians, noting its reliance on circular, modernist reasoning.
• Importance of approaching scripture for spiritual, not merely source-critical, purposes.

8. Atlantis, Plato, and the Flood’s Cultural Afterlife

[86:19-117:39]

• The only primary sources for Atlantis are Plato’s Timaeus and Critias.
• "This half of the show... things are going to get weird." (Fr. Stephen, 86:30)
• Plato’s Atlantis as a mythic precursor to later speculative histories; its supposed destruction linked by later writers to flood myths.
• The influence of Atlantis on early Christian thinkers, renaissance speculation, and eventually pseudo-scientific/racial theories (Madame Blavatsky, the Thule Society, Edgar Cayce).
• The transformation of Atlantis into an occult, mystical, and often racist myth—distinct from its original context.

9. Q&A on Noah, Tradition, and Application

[123:56-129:13]

• Discussion of Noah as a figure with a substantial extra-biblical lore; some of this is taken up in scripture (e.g., “preacher of righteousness”), but much is for spiritual edification, not historical curiosity.

10. The Genesis Flood in Orthodox Perspective

[129:21-151:07]

• Genesis is not concerned with historicism for its own sake.

  • The biblical flood is a theological polemic: God is not like the pagan gods who are capricious or anti-human.
  • The “sons of God”/Nephilim in Genesis directly invert the reverence for mythic kings and giants in local pagan cultures.
  • "The original readers would have understood: Oh, you're talking about these demigods, these heroes... And you're saying they're not heroes ... In fact, they were evil, they were tyrants, they were thugs. And they were so evil and so destructive on the earth that God had to send a flood to wipe them out." (Fr. Stephen, 136:45)
  • God’s command to Noah and his family—“be fruitful and multiply”—is the opposite of the actions of Babylonian gods, who restrict human life after the flood.

• Uncreation and Recreation.

  • Genesis doesn’t describe a “global” or “local” scientific event but an uncreation and recreation of the cosmos: the reversal of the creation order and then a new creation upon subsiding waters. (See 146:56-148:13)

• Why Historicity Isn’t the Point

  • Genesis (and other biblical narratives) are not attempting to prove events happened, but to interpret and orient their meaning in light of faith.
  • "Saints Matthew, Mark, and Luke are not trying to convince you that Jesus rose from the dead by getting all of these details right and consistent. They're trying to communicate things to you about the resurrection." (Fr. Stephen, 162:10)
  • Orthodox tradition preserves the ancient context for interpretation, ensuring the spiritual meaning is not lost even when the pagan stories fade from cultural memory.

11. Norse Flood Tradition (Special Segment)

[165:37-176:10]

• In the Prose Edda, the survivor of the flood is not a human, but a giant (Bergelmir).
• Notable as a point of contrast: in Norse myth, it is the monstrous who survive and repopulate; in Genesis, it is the righteous human uniquely saved and tasked with refounding humanity.
• "Noah is not just saved by God. Noah becomes a new father of the human race. He becomes, in a sense, another Adam, right? ... Noah is a forerunner of Christ in that sense." (Fr. Andrew, 172:37)
• All the world's traditions find their fulfillment, inversion, or correction in Christ.

12. Final Reflections: Faithfulness vs. Belief and What Matters

[176:19-end]

• Doctrinal or scientific “beliefs” about the flood are not the core of Christian faithfulness; what matters is how those stories inform and shape the way one lives, one’s faithfulness and orientation towards God.
• "You don't find out what someone believes by what they say. You find out what someone believes by what they do. What someone does, what they're faithful to, the ideas that they use in their life and put into action that they play out. That's what they believe." (Fr. Stephen, 181:11)
• The ancient stories’ value (and the value of the Genesis account) is in inviting us to live as those who know God is the loving Creator, not a capricious tyrant.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ancient Mesopotamian Religion:
  "The gods create humanity as this slave race, and then when they get to be too many, decide to wipe them out. But does that remind you of anyone else you might have read about in the Hebrew Bible?" (Fr. Stephen, 45:53)
• On Tradition and Interpretation:
  "What those Second Temple Jewish texts are doing is they're preserving that original context for us. That's what tradition does. Tradition preserves the original context in which a text was understood." (Fr. Stephen, 136:04)
• On the Point of Genesis:
  "Genesis does not describe a global flood. It does not describe a local flood. It describes God uncreating the world and then recreating it at the end." (Fr. Stephen, 145:12)
• On the Importance of Faithfulness:
  "If you don't assent to that, if you don't say, yes, this is true, then somehow you're not. You're not really Orthodox, you're not really a Christian. Here's the thing. That's not what believing something means." (Fr. Stephen, 180:39)
• On the True Message of the Flood:
  "God didn't create me to be his slave...God instead loves me, that he wants me to flourish, that he wants me to grow, that he wants me to have life. That's something I need to know." (Fr. Stephen, 185:03)

Key Timestamps

• Sumerian flood story overview: 10:29–16:35
• Atrahasis and the anti-human pagan gods: 27:45–41:13
• Epic of Gilgamesh and Utnapishtim: 52:00–56:49
• Berossus and cultural transmission: 56:49–67:10
• Atlantis myth and its strange afterlife: 86:19–117:39
• Q&A: Documentary Hypothesis, Noah's legacy: 72:29–129:13
• Genesis flood narrative in context: 129:21–151:07
• Norse flood myth & Christ as the true Noah: 165:37–176:10
• Final reflection—faithfulness over belief; what's really important: 176:19–189:55

Conclusion: The Flood, the Seen and Unseen, and the Invitation

Fr. Stephen and Fr. Andrew urge listeners not to get lost in modernist debates about historicity or science but to see how the Genesis Flood story is a deliberate, spiritual answer to humanity’s deep questions about suffering, evil, and the possibility of new beginnings—in a way that contrasts with the prevailing pagan cultures. The true takeaway is the Christian call to faithfulness, to see oneself as invited to God’s new creation in Christ, who is the ultimate Ark and second Adam.

Want to hear more? Tune in to the Lord of Spirits every 2nd and 4th Thursday, and don’t miss their live Q&A and continued exploration of the seen and unseen world!