Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits – “The Angel of the Lord”

Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: November 12, 2021
Podcast Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition

Overview

This episode kicks off a four-part series on Old Testament Christology by diving deep into the mysterious figure known as “the Angel of the Lord”—a prominent and ambiguous presence in the Hebrew Scriptures. The hosts investigate the linguistic, theological, and narrative aspects of this figure, ultimately arguing that the Angel of the Lord is not merely a typical angel but is a distinct manifestation of God, specifically Christ himself, active and embodied before his Incarnation. Key scriptural passages and Second Temple Jewish literature are examined, along with patristic commentary and New Testament references, to illuminate the Angel’s identity and role. The hosts also address common confusions between this figure and St. Michael, as well as the misunderstanding of monotheism in ancient Israelite religion.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining "The Angel of the Lord" (01:08–14:00)

• Linguistics:
  The phrase “the Angel of the Lord” comes from Hebrew “ha malak Yahweh”—the definite article “the” indicates a specific being, not just any angel.

  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (03:23):
    “We’re talking about the angel of Yahweh;... this is indicating a very particular being, not just a good angel.”

• “Angel”:
  The word “angel” means “messenger” in both Hebrew (malak) and Greek (angelos). It historically refers to the function or job, not a “species.”

  • Quote – Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick (05:37):
    “We tend to think of it as a species, but it really is the name of a job... someone who delivers news is what the word means.”

• Of the Lord:
  “Of the Lord” in biblical languages is ambiguous: it can be possessive (“Yahweh’s angel”) or attributive (“the Yahweh-angel”). In Second Temple literature, some angels even bear the name of God, such as Yehoel (“Yahweh God”).

• Old Testament Context:
  The Angel of the Lord is distinct from standard angels, being a singular, sometimes divine figure associated with Yahweh directly.

2. Ancient Israelite Theology & Pre-Christian Christology (12:29–15:12, 37:57–39:27)

• Ancient Israelites were not strict “Unitarian monotheists” as often retroactively imagined. The Old Testament reveals multiple hypostases in God (e.g., “unseen” and “seen” Yahweh).
  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (12:59):
    “If you have that in your head, then finding out they believed there was an angel named ‘Yahweh God’—there’s no way to put that together.”
• This sets the groundwork for Trinitarian Christian theology, showing that the notion of multiple persons in the Godhead is ancient, not an innovation.

3. Messianic Connection: Isaiah 9:6 (14:19–17:43)

• The classic Messianic prophecy, “For unto us a child is born...” (Isaiah 9:6) refers, in the Septuagint, to the Messiah as “angel of great counsel,” underlining the connection of the Messiah—Jesus—with the Angel of the Lord.

• The Greek and Hebrew traditions contain variants, but both feed into the concept that the Angel of the Lord is a prominent, semi-divine/fully-divine figure later identified with Christ.

4. The Angel of the Lord as Lawgiver (19:39–36:51)

• The New Testament and Second Temple Jewish literature (e.g. Book of Jubilees, Josephus) frequently state that the Torah was delivered by angels, and specifically by this principal angel (the Angel of the Presence).

  • Scripture:
    • Acts 7:53 – “You who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”
    • Galatians 3:19–20 – “It was put in place through angels by an intermediary… but God is one.”

• The intermediary is not Moses, but this unique Angel—identified by Paul as God himself, thus Christ before the Incarnation.

  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (34:08):
    “Christ gave the Torah to manage and deal with sins and transgressions until he came.”

5. Angel of the Lord Narrative Arc (Exodus–Judges) (49:10–83:08)

Arc Summary:
From the Exodus through the Conquest and Judges, the Angel of the Lord appears as the actual leader and protector of Israel—commanding, acting, and speaking with God’s own authority (even in first person).

a. Exodus:

• God promises to send “an angel,” warning: “Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.” (Exod. 23:20–21)
  • Indicates divine presence/identity, not mere delegation.
  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (51:08):
    “His identity, who he is, is going to be in him.”

b. Joshua:

• As Israel enters the land, the “Commander of the Lord’s Army” appears with drawn sword (Josh. 5:13–15). Joshua worships him—he accepts worship and declares the ground holy.
  • Not St. Michael, but a greater figure who receives worship (88:17).
  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (78:17):
    “If someone is going to say this is St. Michael, they have to explain why St. Michael is here allowed to receive worship.”

c. Judges:

• The Angel sustains Israel but rebukes and departs after covenantal infidelity (Judg. 2:1–5).
  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (82:13):
    “He has continued to be with the people of Israel this entire time until now when he leaves... speaking in the first person as Yahweh.”

d. Theological Implications:

• The figure is directly identified with Yahweh, yet distinct, foreshadowing Christ as the “seen” Yahweh.

6. Direct Christological Identification in the New Testament (62:16–65:19)

• Jude 5—critical textual evidence affirms that “Jesus saved a people out of the land of Egypt,” not merely “the Lord.”
  • Consensus among scholars: the original text refers to Jesus, further connecting Christ to the Angel of the Lord in the Exodus.
  • Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (65:00):
    “This is very clearly talking about this figure [the Angel of the Lord]... as being Christ.”

7. Miscellaneous Old Testament Appearances (The Lightning Round) (94:07–117:04)

• Burning Bush (Ex 3): The Angel appears and speaks as God.
• Hagar (Gen 16): First human to see the Angel of the Lord.
• Abraham & Isaac (Gen 22): Angel commands the cessation of Isaac’s sacrifice, speaks with God’s authority.
• Balaam’s Donkey (Num 22): Angel appears with drawn sword.
• Samson’s Parents (Judg. 13): Angel appears to announce a birth, is called “Wonderful,” accepts worship.
• Gideon (Judg. 6): Angel appears, is identified directly with Yahweh.
• Census Plague (2 Sam 24; 1 Chr 21): Angel delivers (and relents from) judgment.
• Elijah (1–2 Kings): Angel appears and is paralleled to the “Word of the Lord.”
• Siege of Jerusalem (2 Kings 19; Isa 37): Angel destroys the Assyrian army.

8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Trinity’s Origins:
  “This is where the whole concept of two hypostases that later develops into three in the doctrine of the Trinity... This is ancient.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (39:05)

• On Old Testament Christology:
  “We’re talking about Christ himself active in the Old Testament.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (126:23)

• On the Angel’s Role as Lawgiver:
  “Christ gave the Torah to manage and deal with sins and transgressions until he came.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (34:08)

• On The Same Figure's Duality:
  “There is a Yahweh who is unseen, and a Yahweh who is seen... they are both the one Yahweh.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (38:42)

• On Narrative Intent:
  “None of these literary geniuses contradicted themselves nine verses apart...”
  – Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick (37:57)

• Entertaining banter:
  “Yes, folks. Here’s the giants. Gigantomachy here is the purpose of the Exodus.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (68:06)

9. Addressing Listener Question (43:24–49:32)

Q: Is the Angel of the Lord the second person of the Trinity, God the Son, in a post-resurrectional body?
A:

• Yes—although heaven is not a place nor bound in time, so the “embodiment” of Christ as the Angel of the Lord is not a temporary, alternate incarnation, but an eternal reality manifest at particular moments within human history.
• Quote – Fr. Stephen De Young (47:03):
  “You have eternal realities... time categories don’t fit any better... There are eternal realities that enter into our human experience at certain points.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–01:08]: Opening, podcast mission, and episode theme
• [01:08–14:00]: The linguistic and theological foundations of "The Angel of the Lord"
• [14:00–20:00]: Messiah and the Angel of Great Counsel in Isaiah 9:6
• [20:00–36:51]: Law-giving tradition; mediation of Torah by angels
• [36:51–43:24]: The contradiction in Exodus 33; Seen and unseen Yahweh
• [43:24–49:32]: Listener Q: Angel of the Lord as the pre-incarnate Christ
• [49:32–83:08]: Narrative arc from Exodus through Judges – the Angel as Israel’s leader
• [83:08–94:07]: Q&A: Bible translations, text fidelity, and study methods
• [94:07–117:04]: “Lightning Round” appearances of the Angel throughout the Old Testament
• [117:04–119:35]: Psalms and Zechariah—the Angel as Word, Man, and Angel
• [119:35–close]: Closing reflections and practical theology

Theological Implications and Conclusion

• The Angel of the Lord is not a mere intermediary, nor “just an angel,” nor St. Michael. He speaks as, acts as, and is God—yet is distinct enough to converse with God. This figure is the pre-incarnate Christ, present and active throughout Israel’s history.
• The Old Testament is not an era devoid of Christ’s activity—on the contrary, it is foundational to his self-revelation.
• Understanding Christ as the “Angel of the Lord” reveals the unity of Scripture and deepens the meaning of the Gospels, helping Christians see the consistent, personal involvement of the Son of God from creation, through the Exodus, to the Incarnation, and beyond.
• Practical Note:
  “Who I am in Christ is the ultimate reality of myself... Not how messed up I may feel about myself... Who I am in Christ is something that stands out before me and that I’m working toward.”
  – Fr. Stephen De Young (131:57)

Memorable Moments and Tone

• Playful back-and-forth and dry humor, including references to “bingo cards,” jokes about pronunciation hate mail, and jabs at 19th-century German biblical scholarship.
• Frequent dad jokes, references to popular culture (e.g., Charlton Heston’s Ten Commandments, Final Fight, Hagar the Horrible), and good-natured teasing between the hosts, all while maintaining theological rigor.

Next in the Series

The exploration of Old Testament Christology will continue by examining the figure of the "Word of the Lord" and its connection to the Angel of the Lord and the mystery of the Trinity in pre-Christian revelation.

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