The Lord of Spirits Podcast
Episode: The Five(ish) Falls of Angels
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: October 9, 2020
Episode Overview
This episode explores the often-misunderstood origins of demons and fallen angels within the Orthodox Christian tradition, focusing on the idea that there are multiple "falls," or instances of angelic rebellion, presented in the scriptures. Rather than a single, well-known event of rebellion, the hosts examine five (or so) distinct apostasies or failures among spiritual beings, connecting biblical texts with their ancient mythological counterparts and interpreting how these narratives illuminate the ongoing spiritual struggle affecting humanity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Common Misconception: One Fall of Angels
- Milton’s Influence: Many Christians believe all demons originated from a single pre-creation rebellion, an idea heavily shaped by John Milton’s Paradise Lost rather than by scripture.
- “It's fiction!... In Paradise Lost, the almost-hero or antihero is the devil... and I think also the reason why people have this misconception is that it seems to fit with what they read in the book of Genesis.” — Fr. Andrew (04:47)
- Genesis ‘Gaps’: The lack of an explicit account for the creation or fall of demons in Genesis prompts people to assume it happens before “Let there be light,” leading to misreadings.
2. The Succession Myth vs. Biblical Reality
- Mythological Parallels: Ancient cultures universally tell "succession" stories—divine coups where a Son overthrows the High God (e.g., Baal, Zeus).
- Israelite Correction: Biblical accounts invert this: rebellion against God fails, and the rebel is cast down—unable to dethrone the Creator but able to damage His creatures.
- “You can’t dethrone him in reality. But you can try to dethrone him in the hearts and minds of his creatures, but that requires there to be other creatures.” — Fr. Stephen (14:47)
3. First Fall: The Devil as ‘Lord of the Dead’
- Genesis 3 Revisited: The serpent (nahash) is more than a literal snake— can mean serpent, ‘shining one,’ or ‘deceiver.’
- Hebrew wordplay reveals the devil as “the eater of the dead,” aligning with Hades imagery.
- “The dust this is talking about...is the same word...the imagery here is of the serpent...becoming the eater of the dead.” — Fr. Stephen (22:18)
- Prophetic Retellings: Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 reframe surrounding nations’ succession myths, showing the failed fall of the rebel (e.g., "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer...").
- Notable Quote:
“Helel in Hebrew most likely is actually a Hebraization of the name Enlil, who was the primary god of Old Babylon... Isaiah is deliberately playing with this story and correcting it.” — Fr. Stephen (29:16)
- Notable Quote:
4. Second Fall: Corrupting Humanity via Forbidden Knowledge (Genesis 4–6)
- Pagan Parallels: Ancient Mesopotamian myths (e.g., Apkallu, Seven Sages) describe semi-divine kings who gain technology or wisdom from spirits.
- Biblical Counter-Narrative:
- Cain’s line receives technological gifts from fallen beings—not for uplift, but to hasten violence and power (e.g., weapons, seduction).
- The “sons of God” cohabit with “daughters of men,” producing the Nephilim (giants)—parallel to demigods in pagan lore (e.g., Hercules).
- Ritual Origins: Og’s giant bed (Deut 3:11) is linked to pagan rituals where kings are “indwelt” by gods—yielding hybrid offspring: “2/3 god, 1/3 man.”
- “A future king conceived in this way would have two fathers—the king and the god who the king was embodying, and one mother...so you end up with 2/3 and 1/3, and that's how that works.” — Fr. Stephen (58:59)
5. Third Fall: The Origin of ‘Demons’ Proper (Unclean Spirits)
- Distinction: The disembodied spirits of the giant Nephilim become the New Testament’s ‘demons’ or ‘unclean spirits,’ bodiless and seeking embodiment.
- Jubilees’ Narrative: Some spirits plead to remain active in the world, only afflicting the wicked, but with God’s ultimate allowance—thus explaining the continued temptation and affliction.
- “In the book of Jubilees, the leader named Mastema...says: If you allow some of us to remain in the world and don't throw us all into the abyss, we will afflict the wicked…” — Fr. Stephen (64:16)
- Practical Implication: Temptation and demonic affliction are both judgment and opportunity for human repentance.
6. Fourth Fall: Tower of Babel & The Apostasy of the ‘Sons of God’ (Genesis 11)
- Historical Context: The Babel event is not about humans trying to climb to God, but about bringing God down, controlling the divine.
- “Babel” means “Gate of the Gods”—ziggurats as portals for gods to descend.
- “This wasn’t the gate for humans to get to the gods; it was the gate through which the gods came.” — Fr. Stephen (79:19)
- Divine Allotment: God assigns the nations to angelic “sons of God” as a punishment, step back for human protection.
- Resulting Apostasy:
- The angels set to oversee the nations accept the worship meant for God, become the “principalities and powers” of the nations.
- “They sacrificed unto devils, not to God—to gods whom they knew not… territorial spirits, not the Most High God.” — Fr. Stephen (90:08)
7. Fifth(ish) Fall: The Satan & the Ministry of Christ
- Satan’s Role: In Job, “the Satan” is a title (“adversary”), functioning more as a prosecutor than evil king.
- “In Hebrew, you also sometimes have ha- (the definite article). So the person in Job is not named Satan; he is the Satan.” — Fr. Stephen (98:08)
- New Testament change: During Christ’s ministry, Christ proclaims the fall of Satan ("I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" — Luke 10:18).
- Is this the same as the devil? Tradition is ambiguous; could be the same being falling twice, or two entities (devil and Satan) each undergoing distinct falls.
- “Something has happened vis–à–vis Satan... that he’s lost a role, he’s no longer given access to the divine council.” — Fr. Stephen (102:16)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Misconceptions:
“It's fiction!... In Paradise Lost, the almost-hero or antihero is the devil.” — Fr. Andrew (04:47) -
On Succession Myths vs. Hebrew Tradition:
“In every case in these other nations, that rebellion was successful. But in Hebrew tradition, this insurrection is inverted—it fails.” — Fr. Stephen (13:15) -
On the Wordplay for 'Serpent':
“The word ‘nahash’... if it’s an adjective, it means the shining one; if it’s a verb, the cunning one… so you see this multivalent meaning.” — Fr. Stephen (19:28) -
On Babel's Real Sin:
“This wasn’t the gate for humans to get to the gods; it was the gate through which the gods came.” — Fr. Stephen (79:19) “What the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons.” — Fr. Stephen (91:20) -
On Demonic Affliction as Opportunity
“Temptation also is actually valuable to the saint… demonic affliction is an opportunity to repent.” — Fr. Andrew (67:27)
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Time | Topic | |------|-------| | 01:31 | Introduction and overview of misconceptions about the fall of angels | | 13:05 | Succession myths and their inversion in the Bible | | 22:18 | Genesis 3 and the serpent as “eater of the dead” | | 29:06 | Correction of Babylonian myth; Lucifer and Isaiah 14 | | 45:01 | Mesopotamian stories of the Apkallu and forbidden knowledge | | 54:53 | Giants, Nephilim, and their role as hybrid beings | | 62:00 | Origin of unclean ‘demons’ from dead Nephilim | | 75:13 | Tower of Babel, its ancient context, and divine allotment of nations | | 82:15 | Deuteronomy 32 – “sons of God” and the nations | | 98:08 | The role of “the Satan” and its change in the NT era | | 102:07 | Christ: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” | | 108:08 | Material and spiritual worlds interwoven—no hard boundary |
Tone and Approach
The hosts employ a blend of scholarly rigor, scriptural detail, and accessible language, often interlacing ancient sources with contemporary analogies and humor (“staplers” as part of the created order, playful ribbing about “aliens,” etc.). Their explanations are direct, respectful of ancient cultures’ sophistication, and always tethered back to their spiritual impact on today’s listeners.
Conclusion
The five(ish) falls of angels are not a single event in some primordial prehistory but numerous apostasies—moments where spiritual beings rebelled, misused their gifts, corrupted humanity, and accepted worship meant only for God. Scripture, when read in its ancient and Orthodox context, reveals both a sophisticated and daunting picture of the unseen world, one that is deeply involved in the seen—and in our struggle for salvation. Yet it is also a story in which Christ’s Incarnation, ministry, and authority decisively overturn these forces and reorient humanity toward theosis: union with God.
Next Episode Teaser:
The next installment will explore the sons of God, theosis, and humanity’s transformation—the positive vision counterbalancing this episode’s inventory of cosmic rebellion.
Contact & Community:
Listeners are encouraged to engage via calls, chat, and the show’s Facebook group (“The Divine Council”). Feedback and questions are valued for future episodes.