The Lord of Spirits – “The Gods of the Nations”

Host: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: February 10, 2022
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition – What does it mean when the Bible and early Christians speak of “the gods of the nations”? Are ancient gods real? Idolatry, spiritual beings, and the way spiritual reality functions in scripture and tradition.

Episode Overview

This episode explores the biblical and Orthodox Christian understanding of “the gods of the nations”—the spiritual beings behind pagan religions and idols—and what idolatry actually means. Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen break down differing definitions across history, the reality of these “gods,” how idolatry functions, its impact on people, and how Orthodox tradition interprets these themes. The episode is peppered with etymology, anecdotes, and thoughtful responses to live callers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Are the “gods of the nations” real?

• Modern people tend to dismiss the pagan gods as mere myths or personifications of natural events; the Bible and Orthodox Christianity take a very different view.
  • Fr. Andrew: “Ask most Christians whether Zeus, Odin, Isis, etc. are real… most are going to say no. These are made up stories to try to explain the existence of things like lightning and earthquakes. But how did ancient peoples actually see their gods? And more importantly to us Christians, how does the Bible understand these?” (07:09)
• The biblical stance, especially in the Orthodox tradition, is that there are actual spiritual beings behind the idols worshipped by nations—these are not simply made up.

2. Biblical Evidence for Demonic “Gods”

• Psalm 96:5 (Greek Septuagint)/95:5 (Hebrew):
  “All the gods of the nations are demons.” (08:13)

  • In Hebrew, the term used is “worthless,” but the Greek and Latin translations (e.g., Douay-Rheims) translate as “devils” or “demons.”
  • Fr. Stephen: Explains the Hebrew elil is a pun with elim (gods), and means “worthless,” but this is not a statement of non-existence.

• 1 Corinthians 10:20:
  St. Paul: “What the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God.”

  • Not “to nothing,” not “just to idols,” but to actual demonic beings (13:03).

• Deuteronomy 32:17:
  Refers to pagan sacrifices: “They sacrificed to demons, not to God; to gods they did not know…”

  • Uses the word shedim (territorial spirits), borrowed from Babylonian, meaning spirits over locations, valley, hill, grove, etc. (14:15).

3. Monotheism, Polytheism, and Idolatry: Ancient Categories

• The category “monotheism” is modern (17th century), not used by the Church Fathers or ancients. The Bible never claims that no other spiritual beings exist—only that they are not like the Most High God.
  • Fr. Stephen: “The whole idea of monotheism is a bit naff...The church fathers never call themselves monotheists.” (17:20)
  • Fr. Andrew: “The closest word for what is actually commanded in the scriptures would be monolatry—worshiping one.”
• Ancient paganism assumed many levels and types of spiritual beings—big gods, little gods, “tutelary” spirits of place, etc.
  • Greeks, Romans, and peoples everywhere had experiences of this hierarchical spiritual world, interpreting them differently but talking about a shared reality.

Notable Quote

“The core idea is that ancient peoples, pagans and Israelites alike, experienced a tiered spiritual world—principal gods, lesser spirits, nature spirits, demons—just with different stories and different levels of truth.”
— Fr. Andrew (32:27)

4. The Three Categories of Demons in Scripture

• Watchers:
  Angelic beings who taught forbidden knowledge; imprisoned in the abyss for their rebellion (33:51).

• Unclean Spirits/Demons:
  Spirits of the giants (Nephilim) who die and become bodiless, “unclean” spirits, often possessing humans (34:58).

• Gods of the nations/powers and principalities:
  Angelic beings set over nations, later fell by accepting worship, identified as “powers and principalities” by St. Paul (39:41).

  These categories mirror pagan ideas (e.g., Greek Titans, Olympians, local spirits).

5. How Idolatry Works in Practice

• Not simply “worshiping wood or stone”:
  • Pagan worshipers are not so foolish as to think a statue is literally “God.” The idol is a body or hypostasis for a spiritual being (93:31).
    • They go through rituals (e.g., “opening the nostrils”) to invite the spirit into the statue or object.
  • “You are creating a localization for the god in question... where a particular people can interact with that spirit.” — Fr. Stephen (95:08)
• Idols could be statues, trees, poles (Asherah), amulets—even household gods at the hearth (110:03).
• Example: The golden calf incident in Exodus is the Israelites trying to worship Yahweh by means of an idol—they want a body for Him, which He never commands (97:01).

Notable Quote

“All worship has a transformative effect on the worshipper. Idolatry is dangerous because it does something to us.”
— Fr. Stephen (125:33)

6. What Idolatry Really Is and Isn’t

• Not just “using images" or "making statues.”
  • Many Protestants claim that religious images are inherently idolatrous, but Fr. Stephen explains this is modern “Plato-brain.” No one worships the object itself. (79:16)
• Not everything people call idolatry in modern analogical terms (e.g., liking sports, loving your car) is actually idolatry in the biblical sense.
• Idolatry is ritualized communion with spiritual beings not God, usually involving a meal (sacrifice), and typically with an attempt to manipulate or bargain with the gods—instrumentality rather than love.

7. Effects and Danger of Idolatry

• Idolatry is ultimately transactional and instrumental—human beings trying to control spiritual forces for their own benefit.

  • Contrasted with Christian worship, which is based on love and self-offering (143:42).

• Idolatrous ritual shapes you to think of others (including God) as things to use and manipulate.

  • “Idolatry represents an approach to the spiritual world—and to the material world—based on instrumentality, based on taking control.” — Fr. Stephen (148:05)

• Christianity, by contrast, transforms the worshiper into Christlikeness, joining love of God with love of neighbor (142:54).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Fr. Andrew, on Modern Misconceptions:
  “The modern world doesn’t acknowledge, but is nevertheless haunted by spirits, angels, demons and saints... Many yearn to break free of the prison of flat secular materialism.” (00:00)

• Fr. Stephen, on Scripture and Real Spiritual Beings:
  “This isn’t just one isolated verse in a psalm ... St. Paul says ‘what the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God.’” (12:28)

• Fr. Andrew, on Idolatry's True Nature:
  "Idolatry is not just bowing down to wood and stone—it's about communion with spiritual forces through ritual acts." (87:14 paraphrased)

• Fr. Stephen, on Technique and Magic:
  “Anything you are told is spiritual but requires a technique to produce a particular result—you should run from, like fire. That’s not Christianity.” (71:43)

• Fr. Stephen, on Ancient Pagan Ethics:
  “The ancient pagans were communing with demons; but at least the whole family was communing with the same ones… Now, each one is being formed by their own stream of images. It’s anti-communal technology.” (135:03)

Call-in Highlights & Listener Q&A

• Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) in paganism and Christianity:

  • Found in both Christian Pentecostalism and pagan religions (63:10).
  • Range of explanations: psychological, fraudulent, or possibly demonic. Fr. Andrew notes it often imitates the phonemes of the speaker’s own language, suggesting something non-supernatural in many cases.
  • Fr. Stephen: “The production of ecstatic experience by techniques is a commonplace in ancient magic... It makes you spiritually vulnerable.” (69:20)

• Is animal sacrifice ever OK for Christians?

  • Eucharist is the only divinely instituted sacrifice for Christians; Christian worship is not about offering any food one feels like to God—God defines the way of worship (57:00).

• Deserts and Demons:

  • Ancient tradition places demons in wilderness/desert places—opposed to the ordered, life-giving “garden” of paradise. The desert is “outside Eden,” and spiritual heroes bring “paradise” with them when they enter the desert. (120:04)

• Technology as Modern Idolatry:

  • TVs and devices have replaced household idols at the “hearth” of many homes. “We’ve lost the hearth... a key part of trying to rebuild community is rebuilding the hearth.” — Fr. Stephen (137:04)

Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------| | 00:00–04:13 | Introduction – The question of pagan gods’ reality and biblical references | | 04:13–15:33 | Bible verses: “gods of the nations” as demons, Hebrew/Greek terms, Sennacherib, translation | | 15:33–32:27 | Categories: monotheism, polytheism, what ancients believed – hierarchy of the gods | | 32:27–43:39 | Biblical model: Three categories of demonic beings and their pagan parallels | | 43:39–52:40 | Greek/Roman mythology, gigantomachy, “the gods vs. chaos” | | 53:59–77:02 | Calls: animal sacrifice, glossolalia, demons, Pentecostal experiences | | 77:02–93:08 | How idolatry actually works, what it isn’t, common misconceptions | | 93:08–111:34 | The “hardware” of idolatry – statues, trees, amulets, hearth gods, icon corner | | 128:53–140:30 | Callers: attention, the hearth, technology as “modern idol,” family rituals | | 140:40–152:33 | Idolatry’s transformative impact – how it shapes human thought | | 152:33–162:00 | Christian reversal: true worship, love vs. control/manipulation | | 162:00–166:14 | Closing reflections: Christian hope vs. anxiety, the real future not “magical” levers |

Conclusion: How to See the Unseen – Idolatry and the True Worshipper

• Idolatry is not merely “loving something more than God,” or doing religious acts with objects, or even “worshipping” material goods. It’s profoundly about entering into communion—through ritual and sacrifice—with powers other than the Most High God, seeking to manipulate reality and control fate.
• Idolatry transforms the worshiper into someone who uses manipulation, transactional relationships, and ultimately ends up dehumanized, which contrasts with the transformation of Orthodox Christian worship, where love for God and neighbor are united.
• In a world filled with “magical” thinking—push this button, get this outcome—the call of Christ is to lay aside techniques, manipulation, and bribes, and instead to attend to what is truly humanizing: communion in humility, gratitude, and love.

Final Words & Blessing

“Christ has given us a hope—a real future, not a possible one, and given us ways to participate in it: pray, love, serve, heal, listen. Our faithfulness to what God has called us to do is the substance of the things we hope for.”
— Fr. Stephen (164:51)

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