Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits – "The Pattern of the Tabernacle"

Date: June 26, 2022
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Podcast: The Lord of Spirits, Ancient Faith Ministries

Overview

This episode explores the profound spiritual, theological, and symbolic meaning of the Tabernacle in Orthodox Christianity. The hosts trace the biblical and ancient Near Eastern roots of sacred architecture, examining how worship spaces—beginning with the Tabernacle, through the Temple, and culminating in Orthodox Christian churches—express the union of the seen and unseen worlds. The discussion connects the pattern of the Tabernacle to Paradise, God’s heavenly dwelling, concepts of sacred geography, and their ultimate fulfillment in the church and theosis. The episode spans from the Taj Mahal to relics and the veneration of saints—showing how liturgical space expresses and enables communion with God.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: The Taj Mahal, Paradise, and Sacred Spaces

[00:24–08:37]

• The episode begins with a reflection on how modern people claim, "the church isn't a building," and challenge the need for worship spaces. The hosts ask: Is sacred space arbitrary or divinely instituted?
• The Taj Mahal, with its walled garden and four-way water channels, is evoked as an architectural echo of the biblical paradise—Eden—a recurring symbol in ancient religions.
• Father Andrew’s Etymology Corner: The English word "paradise" comes via Greek from Persian, originally describing a walled garden. Early Old English also had “neorxnawang,” probably meaning a heavenly field or meadow, showing that the concept of a divine garden saturates Christian and pre-Christian thought.

Quote:
“Paradise is wherever God is … Wherever God is, that place becomes paradise.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [12:21]

2. Paradise, the Mountain of God, and Inhabited Sacred Geography

[08:37–24:01]

• In both the Bible and surrounding cultures, God (or the gods) is associated with a garden on a mountain—a place of order and life amid chaos and wilderness.
• The “mountain of God” theme bridges Genesis, Ezekiel (Eden as “mountain of God,” Ezekiel 28:13-14), and ancient myth (e.g., Olympus, Zaphon, Norse "Himinbjorg").
• Mountains symbolize nearness to heaven, but also the council/assembly place of God and His heavenly hosts.
• The "mountain" as God's dwelling echoes through various traditions, with the deep abyss or Tartarus as its antithesis: the inverted mountain.

Quote:
“There is this idea that a God or the gods live on a mountain ... there’s always some kind of council meeting happening.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [42:20]

3. The Divine Council and the Tent (Tabernacle) as God’s Dwelling

[29:31–40:33]

• The "tent" is not accidental; in ancient Near Eastern culture, a patriarch’s entire clan dwelled in a large tent, with partitions for each married son—a microcosm of the divine council with the Most High at the center.
• The Canaanite Baal Cycle is cited: the gods occupy “seven rooms” in El’s pavilion-tent, each a partition for a divine child—contrasting with Israel, where faithful are invited to become sons, not slaves.
• Jesus’ “many mansions” (John 14) is rightly read as “many partitions” in the Father's tent—a participatory model of divine life and theosis.
• The Mountain of Assembly (“Har Moed,” transliterated “Armageddon”) is the council site of God and His hosts—paralleled in the Transfiguration, where Peter wants to build “booths” for Christ, Moses, and Elijah, echoing the tent image.

Quote:
“The sons of God would be the ones who have their own partitions within the big tent.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [39:48]

4. Moses on the Mountain, Angels, and the Heavenly Template

[44:46–50:33]

• Moses ascending the mountain is understood as entering the heavenly council; the “pattern” for the Tabernacle is shown to him during this theophany, mediated through God and angels (Acts 7:53, Hebrews 2:2, Galatians 3:19-20).
• The Tabernacle is a copy and shadow of the heavenly worship, as stated in Hebrews 8:5: “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”

Quote:
“The tabernacle is made after the pattern of what he saw on the mountain … a copy and shadow of the heavenly things.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [50:26]

5. The Structure, Furniture, and Symbolism of the Tabernacle

[53:08–80:20]

• The Tabernacle is a permanent tent-shrine, unique among ancient Near Eastern shrines, surrounded by a courtyard and filled with symbolic furnishings.
• Courtyard Objects:
  • The laver (basin): ritual washings for the priests.
  • The altar of burnt offering: sacrifices made here as purification, preparatory for entering the tent.
• Within the Tent:
  • Table of showbread (bread of the presence): priests' sustenance.
  • Seven-branched lampstand (menorah): representing the seven “planets,” the heavenly order—tabernacle as microcosm of creation.
  • Altar of incense: prayer and worship ascending to God.
  • Veils embroidered with cherubim: iconographic recreation of the heavenly council.
• Holy of Holies:
  • The Ark of the Covenant, the footstool of God—a place of encounter but not containment.
  • The tablets (two copies) of the covenant, signifying God as both issuing and witnessing the covenant.
  • Jar of manna and Aaron’s rod (kept beside the Ark): symbols of God’s providence and choice.

Quote:
“The tabernacle itself is a microcosm of the universe … its pattern is representing the seven lights in the sky under the heavens.”
—Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick [74:01]

6. Temple vs. Tabernacle: God’s Resistance to Settled Religion

[80:28–94:52]

• David’s (and later Solomon’s) desire to build a stone temple is met with divine ambivalence and resistance; God prefers the tabernacle, signifying an unsettled, pilgrim identity for His people.
• The stone temple brings risks: cultural settling, idolatry (as with the chariot of Shemesh-Zedekah at Solomon’s temple), and association with pagan concepts—buildings and idols as “god traps.”
• The prophecy of a future Temple in Ezekiel is read as typological, not literal, by Jews and early Christians; its fulfillment is Christ’s body, not a future building.

Quote:
“There is a strong theme throughout the Scriptures... that the people of God... can’t do that by settling in, in this world or any of its cultures or any of its places at any time.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [173:37]

7. The Tabernacle in the New Testament and Christian Worship Spaces

[109:53–137:15]

• The New Testament reflects on heavenly worship and Christian liturgy using Tabernacle language, not that of the Temple.
• The destruction of Herod’s Temple (A.D. 70) is not seen as significant for Christians—it’s not mentioned in the NT because God’s presence is no longer localized there.
• Revelation describes heavenly worship in terms of the “tent of witness” (e.g., Rev 15:5–8): a heavenly Tabernacle, not a permanent stone temple.
• Orthodox churches are modeled architecturally and sacramentally after the Tabernacle:
  • Narthex: Baptism—the laver of regeneration; only the initiated proceed further.
  • Nave: Standing in the holy place—bread of presence (antidoron, artoklasia), lampstands, incense, icons of cherubim.
  • Altar Table: Recapitulation of the Ark (Gospel book), cross (Aaron’s rod), and eucharist (manna).
• Sacred space, time, and objects are not abolished but transfigured: “everything is potentially sacred,” and churches teach us this pattern.

Quote:
“So when we see early Orthodox Christian worship spaces... they're patterned after the tabernacle.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [123:30]

8. Relics, Martyrdom, and the Resurrection: The Sanctification of Sacred Space

[143:33–164:00]

• Since the earliest times, Christian altars are built over or contain relics, originally of the martyrs, because God’s presence now dwells in the saints (not buildings).
• Early pagans, like Julian the Apostate and Eunapius of Sardis, mocked Christians for “parading corpses” and praying over bones—clear proof that veneration of relics was both universal and deeply distinctive.
• Veneration of saints and relics is not “polytheism in disguise” (as some claim), but the logical outcome of belief in the resurrection: the saints are alive in Christ, participating in His reign, and the church’s very architecture is a witness to this.

Quote:
“The graves of the martyrs are altars to Christ.”
—St. Jerome, cited by Fr. Stephen De Young [144:51]

Quote:
“Christ died condemned as a criminal... and when he rose from the dead, that was the vindication of him... and this is true... also of the martyrs, also of the righteous.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [160:52]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you read closely... which mountain is it exactly? Like. Well, it can be. We're saying it can be several, you know. One at a time usually. But it can.” —Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick [29:03]
• “In my Father's house are many mansions” is really “in my Father's tent are many partitions... Christians are going to live with him as part of this extended family.”
  —Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick [38:29]
• “That reality of the divine council, the mountain of assembly, that's what St. Peter is seeing at the Transfiguration.”
  —Fr. Stephen De Young [43:37]
• “Early Christians worshiped at the tombs of martyrs... this is the church, this is normal Christianity.” —Paraphrased from pagan complaints, summarized throughout [149:01–151:09]

Timestamps by Major Segment

• Intro & Overview: [00:24–08:37]
• Garden & Mountain of God: [08:37–24:01]
• Divine Council & Tent Structure: [29:31–44:46]
• Moses on the Mountain & Heavenly Template: [44:46–53:08]
• Tabernacle Structure & Symbolism: [53:08–80:20]
• Tabernacle vs. Temple: [80:28–94:52]
• Tabernacle in the New Covenant/Church: [109:53–137:15]
• Relics & Veneration of Saints: [143:33–164:00]
• Final Reflections: [173:30–end]

Conclusion & Final Reflections

• Faithfulness, Not Just Belief: Both hosts emphasize that Christianity is fundamentally a way of life—a pattern of faithfulness expressed in obedience and embodied worship, not simply intellectual acceptance of doctrines.
• Radical Discipleship: Christians are to live in a way that does not fit with this world—pilgrims and strangers, just as the tabernacle was never meant to be a settled house.
• Sacred Space as Witness: The pattern of the Tabernacle is not an archaism but the ongoing paradigm for Christian worship—heaven and earth united, the saints reigning in glory, the faithful gathered into the living presence of God.

“The promise that we have in Scripture is that if we get serious about [radical Christian faithfulness] ... that's when people will really start to hate us.”
—Fr. Stephen De Young [179:50]

For Further Study:

• Sacred Geography episodes (see back-catalog)
• Episodes on Relics, Priesthood, and Bodies for related themes
• Key scriptures: Genesis 2, Ezekiel 28, Hebrews 8, Revelation 15, John 14
• Further reading: St. Jerome on Martyrs’ graves, patristic texts on the Tabernacle

This episode is essential listening for anyone who wants to understand the rootedness of Orthodox worship, the continuity of sacred space from Eden to the Church, and why the tabernacle—God’s divine tent among His people—remains the living pattern for encountering the Lord of Spirits today.