Podcast Summary: The Lord of Spirits – "The Word of the Lord" (Nov 25, 2021)

Overview

In this episode of The Lord of Spirits, Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Stephen DeYoung explore the meaning of the phrase "the Word of the Lord" or "the Word of God" in the Bible, particularly focusing on its usage in the Old Testament as part of their Christology series. They investigate whether this phrase refers to the Bible, to language, to Christ, or something more. By examining scriptural paradigms and ancient linguistic perspectives, they reveal how the concept describes a divine person—ultimately revealed as Christ—acting in history, rather than merely a spoken or written message.

Episode Structure & Key Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Definitions & Listener Question

• Opening Theme and Purpose: The podcast explores the mystical union of seen and unseen in Orthodox theology, this episode continuing the series "Christology of the Old Testament."
• Listener Voicemail – Linguistics ([04:00]):
  • Caller Olga from Kazakhstan, a linguist, asks: Is "Word of the Lord" best understood as langue (theoretical language) or parole (uttered speech)?
  • Fr. Andrew: Explains the Saussurean linguistic framework, clarifying the difference between "language" (shared system) and "speech" (actual use).

2. Does "Word of God" Mean Language, Scripture, or Person?

• "No," says Fr. Stephen, "it's more than just language." ([07:04])
• American Protestantism & The Bible:
  • The phrase “Word of God” is commonly conflated with the Bible, but, as Fr. Stephen points out, the Bible never uses "Word of God" to refer to itself ([09:08]):

    "In the Bible, the phrase word of God or word of the Lord is never used to refer to the Bible." — Fr. Stephen ([09:08])

• The Materiality and Value of Ancient Texts:
  • Fr. Andrew draws a parallel between ancient textual preservation and modern phrases like "set in stone," emphasizing the monumental effort behind writing and preserving Scripture ([12:32]).
  • Costly Written Word: A book like Romans would cost a fortune in the 1st century.

    "A copy of that [Romans] would have cost the equivalent of $5,000 in the ancient world." — Fr. Stephen ([16:06])

• Modern Theology on "Word of God":
  • Discusses Protestant and Catholic attempts to split “Word of God” from scripture, and 19th-century theology (e.g., Karl Barth: the preached Word becomes the Word of God) ([21:35]).

    "But the problem ... is that it’s looking at the word of God in terms of some kind of discursive message..." — Fr. Stephen ([21:57])

• It's More Than Language: "There's a qualitative difference. It's something other than text or speech." — Fr. Stephen ([22:57])

3. Logos: Greek Philosophy vs. Jewish Scripture

• Common Misreading: Logos as Greek Concept:
  • Western biblical scholarship has often interpreted John's prologue through the lens of Greek philosophy, connecting "Logos" to Heraclitus, Stoicism, and Middle Platonism ([24:24]).
  • "Johannine literature is ‘Greek’ or even ‘proto-Gnostic’ because of focus on dualism, etc." ([29:49])
• Rebuttal: Second Temple Judaism & Dead Sea Scrolls:
  • Dead Sea Scrolls reveal that “Word of the Lord” is a thoroughly Jewish idea.

    “Now there’s … scholars arguing that the Johannine literature is some of the most Jewish, some of the most deeply immersed in Second Temple Jewish thought.” — Fr. Stephen ([40:23])

  • Themes like light/darkness, dualism, are common in Second Temple Judaism.

4. Philo of Alexandria: Hellenizer or Judaizer?

• Re-examination of Philo:
  • Past Paradigm: Philo as a Greekizer of Judaism.
  • New Perspective (Daniel Boyarin, Pelikan): Philo brought Jewish ideas into philosophical conversation (“Judaized” Hellenism) ([54:11]).

    "The key here is which of the two is controlling." — Fr. Stephen ([55:37])

  • Philo sees the Logos as the mediating, personal agent of creation—aligning with Second Temple Jewish concepts, not Gnosticism.
  • The Logos is both person and creative agent in Scripture; Philo identifies the Logos with the Angel of the Lord, “the same second power in heaven” ([64:53]).

5. Targums & Interpretive Tradition

• Aramaic Targums: Function as expanded narrative commentaries, frequently insert the “Memra” (“Word”) of the Lord even in places not explicit in the Hebrew ([71:18]).
  • Used wherever God is seen/having a body, underlining the Word as the “interface” with the visible world.

Scriptural Paradigms: The "Word of the Lord" as a Divine Person

Old Testament Examples

• Genesis 15 (Abram’s Vision) ([77:17]):
  • The Word of the Lord appears “in a vision,” not just a voice—Abram calls Him “Yahweh,” and He accepts it.
• 1 Samuel 3 (Samuel’s Calling) ([83:38]):
  • “The word of Yahweh was rare…there were not many visions” — The Word of the Lord is encountered visually.
  • Samuel physically sees and hears the Word standing by his bed.

    "Yahweh comes and stands as at the other times, calling to him." — Fr. Stephen ([90:10])

• Jeremiah 1 (Jeremiah’s Calling) ([92:05]):
  • The Word comes, speaks in first person as creator ("I formed you in the womb"), and physically touches Jeremiah’s lips.
• Points outlined:
  1. The word of the Lord is a person.
  2. He is visually and physically encountered.
  3. He is Yahweh, but distinguished from Yahweh ([95:07]).

Broader Patterns in Scripture

• Hexateuch/Pentateuch: Rebelling against the “Word of the Lord” equals rebelling against a person ([97:43]).
• Psalms: “The word of the Lord proves true; He is a shield…”—personal language for the Word ([99:42]).
• Prophets: Formulaic “The Word of the Lord came to...” involves direct encounter, then the prophet shares the message ([102:30]).

The Gospel of John: The Definitive Statement

Prologue (John 1:1-18): Deep Dive & Greek Analysis

• In the Beginning = Genesis resonance. “En archē ēn ho Logos” ([113:14]).
• “The Word was being (imperfect tense) with God and the Word was God” ([119:30]):
  • "In the beginning, the Word had been being already." — Fr. Andrew ([119:30])
  • "He is not in the category of things that came into being." — Fr. Stephen ([131:51])
• All things through him came into being ([130:47]).
• The Light as the Life of Humanity:
  • “That light [of day one of creation] is the life of God in Christ.” — Fr. Stephen ([135:10])
  • "He begins to save us from the very beginning of the moment of creation." — Fr. Andrew ([140:00])
• The True Light Enlightening Everyone:
  • "The 'true light which enlightens every human' is not the Word himself, but the salvation/grace radiating from the Word." ([143:02])
• Before the Incarnation ([145:18]):
  • The Word was already in the world, the world was made through him, but the world did not know him.
  • To those who received him, “He gave authority to become children of God.”
• The Word Became Flesh:
  • "Tabernacled among us" — Christ becomes the visible, present glory of God as the Tabernacle/Temple ([152:27]).
• “No one has ever seen God, the only God who is in the bosom of the Father; He has made him known” ([162:38]):
  • The Son/Word is the definitive interface/revelation of the Father in all encounters in Scripture.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Falsehood of “Word of God = Bible” ([09:08]):

  “In the Bible, the phrase word of God or word of the Lord is never used to refer to the Bible.”

• On Value of Ancient Text ([16:06]):

  “A copy of (Romans) would have cost $5,000 in the ancient world.”

• On Light at Creation ([135:10]):

  “That light is the life that is in Christ, the life that is in the Logos.”

• On the Incarnation ([152:27]):

  “The Logos became flesh and tabernacled among us. And the glory of God, the presence of God is within him.”

• On Christ as Interface for Creation ([167:27]):

  “This is God reaching out to his creation, sometimes to create, sometimes to speak, but always to save.”

• Pastoral Takeaway ([172:56], [175:48]):

  “We can’t understand anything if we don’t understand and come to know Christ… Any knowledge that is real knowledge, any knowledge that is true, that expresses truth, is knowledge of Christ.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:00] - Linguistic framing of “Word”
• [09:08] - “Word of God” does not mean Bible
• [16:06] - The value of written scripture in ancient world
• [24:24] - Misreading Logos as mainly a Greek concept
• [40:23] - Dead Sea Scrolls show "Word" is a common Jewish theme
• [54:11] - Boyarin on Philo: Judaizing Hellenism
• [64:53] - Philo: “The Logos is the Angel of the Lord”
• [71:18] - Targums insert “Memra” (Word) of the Lord
• [77:17] - Genesis 15: Abram’s vision of the Word
• [83:38] - 1 Samuel 3: Samuel’s vision and the Word standing beside him
• [92:05] - Jeremiah 1: The Word touches Jeremiah’s mouth
• [113:14] - Deep exegesis of John 1:1
• [135:10] - Creation’s light as life from Christ
• [152:27] - The Word became flesh, “tabernacled among us”
• [162:38] - No one has seen the Father, the Son reveals Him
• [172:56], [175:48] - Pastoral implications: Knowledge and Christ

Final Reflections

• The "Word of the Lord" is never just a message, written or spoken, but a Person—the Son of God—active and appearing throughout the Scriptures.
• The Word is God’s interface with creation: Creator, revealer, and redeemer from the very beginning.
• Every revelation or encounter with “the Word of the Lord” in the Old Testament is a Christophany, a manifestation of the pre-incarnate Christ.
• This reading transforms our understanding of both scripture and salvation: Christ is the center and purpose of it all, and knowing Him is the very foundation of all real knowledge.

For listeners:

• If you’ve ever thought “The Word of the Lord” just means the Bible, or simply “God said,” this episode will radically shift your understanding—tracing the living thread of Christ through all the Scriptures.
• Takeaway: Every genuine encounter with God—even in the Old Testament—was always an encounter with Christ, the Word.