The Lord of Spirits: "Time, See What's Become of Me"
Date: August 2, 2024
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick (A), Fr. Stephen De Young (B)
Podcast Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition
Episode Overview
This episode of The Lord of Spirits podcast embarks on a “brain-bending” journey into the nature of time—its reality, its relationship to God, and how human experience shapes our understanding of it. Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen critique both pagan and modern Christian views of time, challenge long-held cultural assumptions, and use Orthodox Christian theology to reframe what it means to exist "in" time as a creature, as well as what it means for the Creator to stand outside of it. The discussion is rich with philosophical, theological, and practical insight, along with cultural commentary and playful banter.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Opening Rant: The Olympics and the Myth of Western Civilization
- Fr. Stephen addresses recent outrage over the pagan elements in the Olympics, using it as a springboard to critique the constructed narrative of “Western Civilization.”
- He argues that the supposed historical continuum from Sumer to modern America is a fiction designed during the Renaissance/Enlightenment to fuse incompatible traditions: ancient paganism and Christianity.
- This fusion, now dissolving, is why we see open paganism “rediscovering its antipathy for Christianity” more rapidly than vice versa.
- Quote:
"We need to stop trying to fuse the City of God and City of Man and trying to hold those things together and pretend they're the Same city." — Fr. Stephen (12:17)
- The hosts stress Christianity’s correction of the errors of paganism, emphasizing the Torah and St. Paul's condemnation of worshipping the “demons of the nations.”
2. God’s Relationship to Space: Omnipresence and Supra-Essentiality
- Before discussing time, the hosts use God’s relationship to space as a bridge (18:10–27:28):
- God acts in specific places (e.g., healing), but is not spatially located.
- God does not move from place to place or exist locally; spatial language about God is always analogical.
- Quote:
"Simpy put, spatial categories, like here, they're far, near. They don't apply literally to God… we all understand that's an analogy." — Fr. Stephen (27:10)
- Help from Orthodox thinkers:
- St. Demetrius Staniloae: “God is supra-essential”; God is not a “thing”—not a super-sized object, being, or even a superior kind of angel.
3. God’s Relationship to Time: Timelessness and Human Projection
- God does not exist "in" time:
- He does not experience a succession of moments, have a divine "schedule," or undergo experiences in the human sense.
- Temporal language about God is analogical–from the human perspective only.
- Quote:
"God doesn't experience a succession of moments… God doesn't experience anything." — Fr. Stephen (31:16)
- Applying human temporal perspective to God leads to serious theological errors and heresies.
- Example: All Calvinist, Arminian, Molinist, and Open Theist systems mistakenly assume God is located within a sequence of events (whether “before” or in “logical order”).
- Quote:
"If God is outside of time and space, which he has to be to be God, then it's impossible for God to make decrees or plans or choices or decisions before something happens..." — Fr. Stephen (33:01)
- Any claim that God is subject to logic or to time is ultimately to undermine His divinity.
4. Is Time Real? Is it a Thing? The Experience of Time
- Time, like color, only exists as experience:
- Time is not an object or a created “thing” but a category of consciousness, a way of ordering experience in succession.
- Analogy: Color exists for mantis shrimp (who see colors we cannot), but for humans, those colors don’t exist—they’re a species-specific experience.
- Quote:
"Time isn't a thing that exists. Time exists at the level of experience. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all... but it's not an object." — Fr. Stephen (46:39)
- Different creatures experience time differently; even among humans, subjective awareness of time varies with circumstances and memory.
- God does not have "experience" in a passible (changeable, affected) sense, and thus is not subject to time at all.
- Quote:
"God is not passible. He's not able to be acted upon." — Fr. Andrew (54:37)
- Quote:
5. Deep Time: What About “Time” with No Observers?
- The idea of “deep time” (e.g., the age before living creatures) is challenged.
- If there are no conscious beings to experience time, is there truly time?
- Even if there are “events,” without an observer, there is no experience of “duration.”
- Uncertainty remains about how angels experience time.
6. Scripture and Cycles: Is Biblical Time Linear or Cyclical?
- Critique of the myth that "pagans had only cyclical time, and the Hebrews gave the world linear time.” (44:01–45:22)
- The Bible has many cycles: feasts, Sabbath, repeated patterns.
- Instead of linear or cyclical, time in biblical tradition manifests in cycles that are teleological (goal/progress-directed) but not strictly linear.
- Quote:
"Contrary to all that, here's what I'm going to suggest… time doesn't exist." — Fr. Stephen (46:03)
- Genesis' days of creation (and feasts, cycles):
- “God can’t do something on a day”—meaning God’s acts are not bound to, or stretched through, time. Days are how humans experience the unfolding of God’s actions. (91:40–94:43)
7. Calendars, Feasts, and Theosis: Human Participation in the Divine Order
- The Law's feasts and liturgical cycles are seen as tools for theosis (deification), ordering human life to participate in the divine life (98:06–103:53).
- The “top-down” and “bottom-up” structure of calendars:
- Agricultural cycles are “bottom-up” (natural order).
- Divine interventions (Passover, Pentecost, etc.) are “top-down.”
- Participation in liturgical cycles is participating in events—“the Passover is not remembering but participating.”
- Quote:
"Time here, in terms of its structuring, becomes in and of itself the means of theosis through worship and celebration." — Fr. Stephen (104:38)
8. Reframing Predestination, Foreknowledge, and Prophecy
- The Greek term proorizo (often translated “predestine”) literally means “to set in order in advance,” not to script or decree.
- God sets things in order for salvation before the people to be saved actually appear in history. But for God, there’s no "before" or “after.”
- Quote:
"If you say to a Calvinist, argue for predestination and reprobation without using the term before—you can't." — Fr. Stephen (90:07)
- Prophecy:
- Prophets sometimes announce things ahead of time but not as "fortune-telling." God acts and these acts are revealed to the creature in succession; God does not "see" the future—He simply acts, outside of time.
9. The “Age” and “World” in Scripture
- "Aion" (“age”) and “kosmos” (“world”) do not mean time duration or physical planet but refer to orders, structures of creation, and ways of experiencing reality.
- The “life of the age to come” is the life in the unending new creation.
- Attempts to limit “of the age” to a finite period (DB Hart’s universalist reading) are refuted: the term is contextual, not strictly about duration.
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
On Cultural Assimilation:
"And now, very timely. You could go all over YouTube in some of our own circles...and find people talking about the demise of the west...This thing that was phony and never existed...It's not that this thing was real and now it's going away. It's that those two things...are pulling themselves apart again." — Fr. Stephen (9:39)
-
On Time as Experience:
"Time isn't a thing that exists...Time exists at the level of experience. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all...but it's not an object." — Fr. Stephen (46:39)
-
On God’s Timelessness:
"God is not passible. He's not able to be acted upon." — Fr. Andrew (54:37)
-
On Theology’s Practical Value:
"Humility is the path of salvation. It's not possible to be saved without humility." — Fr. Andrew (178:12)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Opening quote, show intro: 00:00–02:55
- Fr. Stephen's Olympics/Cultural Rant: 05:27–13:06
- God & Space analogy: 18:10–27:28
- Transition to God & Time: 27:28–32:57
- Destruction of Calvinist/Arminian temporal assumptions: 32:46–36:02
- Phenomenology of Time (color analogy, mantis shrimp): 47:31–49:03
- Deep Time & Observation: 58:17–62:07
- Genesis and Days of Creation: 91:08–97:15
- Calendars & Theosis: 97:54–104:38
- Predestination language and critique: 106:09–110:54
- Biblical “Age” and “World”: 119:33–125:24
- Human Memory and Experience (St. Augustine): 149:30–162:29
- Practical Exhortation on Time, Repentance & Hope: 176:26–183:55
- Closing remarks (Fr. Stephen on prayer and the present): 183:59–190:54
Listener Q&A Highlights
-
Open Theism & Orthodox Theology (65:14–74:08):
- Orthodox theology rejects open theism because it posits a finite God. The answer is not that God "doesn't know" or "can't act," but that evil comes by creaturely agency, not through God’s direct agency.
-
Western Universal History vs. Perennialism (74:57–80:54):
- Genuine Christian use of history is assimilative and critical (cf. St. Justin Martyr, St. Basil), not perennialism; Christ corrects, not assimilates, pagan error.
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Time, Angels, and Pagan Gods (127:46–134:00):
- Angels are finite, “circumscribed” beings whose exact limitations are beyond human comprehension, unlike God, who is truly limitless. Pagan gods are always localized—only Yahweh is said to be everywhere.
Practical Takeaways & Closing Exhortations
- God is never bound by time, logic, or any category.
- All heretical theologies begin by projecting creaturely categories onto the Creator.
- Time is real at the level of human experience, not as a “thing.”
- Our participation in liturgical, sacramental, and prayerful life opens us to divine reality.
- Live with humility, gratitude, and hope.
- Practice gratitude for the past, hope for the future, and act in the present—this is the path of salvation.
- Pray for the present moment.
- Most of our spiritual focus is in the (unchangeable) past or the (unpredictable) future. Adjust your prayers and actions to engage with the present, where true transformation is possible.
Tone, Language, and Style
The hosts balance philosophical rigor and playful banter, with clear Orthodox theological commitments. Their tone is direct but pastoral, interweaving cultural commentary, popular references, and practical wisdom in a highly accessible but theologically rich conversation.
Next Episode Teaser:
The journey continues next week, delving into identity, the body, bodily resurrection, and the life of the world to come—developing the themes set out in this episode even further.