The Lord of Spirits Podcast
Episode: “Your Skin Makes Me Cry”
Date: February 28, 2025
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Christian Tradition
Episode Overview
This episode explores the invisible but ever-present world of angels within Orthodox Christian tradition, focusing on their roles, hierarchy, and interaction with humanity. The conversation offers a counter-narrative to flat, secular materialism by highlighting how the celestial and human communities are intertwined through love, agency, and participation in God’s plan. The hosts also address frequent misunderstandings about angelic activity, mediation, and prayer, arguing that “efficiency” is not a category that pertains to God's ways.
Key Concepts and Discussion Points
1. Angelic Hierarchy: Ranks, Roles, and Uniqueness
[04:35–09:00]
- St. Dionysius’ Nine Ranks: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Angels.
- Not Species, But Offices: Unlike created species, angels are unique beings. Each angel’s “rank” refers to its assigned task or proximity to God, not progression or promotion.
- “Angels don’t have species... Every angel is sui generis, meaning it’s unique.” – Fr. Stephen [06:54]
- Hierarchy Mirrors the Church: The structure parallels ecclesiastical hierarchy—not a value judgment of holiness, but a difference in role.
- “A bishop is not a different species than a layperson… they just have a different role.” – Fr. Stephen [09:04–09:17]
- Archangel Ambiguity: “Archangel” can mean both a particular rank and a title for any “chief” angel; there’s not only “The Seven.”
2. The Ongoing Work of Angels Post-Christ
[14:44–16:34]
- Misconception: Some believe angels were “laid off” post-Incarnation and now God handles everything directly.
- Orthodox View: Angels still serve as intermediaries; but through Christ’s ascension, humanity is glorified “above” the angels.
- “Now there’s either a new rank one or ten... that is glorified humanity.” – Fr. Stephen [16:16]
- Example: The Theotokos is cited as the exemplar of glorified humanity, not replacing but expanding the hierarchy.
3. Human Saints and Angelic Functions
[23:06–24:01]
- Saintly Roles: Saints in glory perform activities previously ascribed to angels—delivering messages, protection, hearing prayers.
- “All the stuff that you see angels doing in the Old Testament, human saints are doing under the new covenant.” – Fr. Andrew [23:34]
- Scriptural Support: Luke 20:36 refers to the “sons of the Resurrection” as “equal to angels.”
- Honor vs. Slander: Venerating saints is the opposite of the New Testament’s warning against “slandering angels.” [24:11]
4. Angels and the Nature of “Spirits”
[25:02–25:30]
- Noetic Realm: Angels and saints function in the “noetic” or spiritual world—higher consciousness that motivates humans collectively.
- Good Influence: While demons seek destruction, angels and saints work to guide people toward God.
5. Love Over Efficiency: The Divine Gifting of Agency
[31:03–34:54]
- God's Methods: God doesn’t “need” intermediaries but chooses to include angels and saints out of love, not efficiency.
- “Efficiency... is completely irrelevant to an omnipotent being... If you're God, it doesn’t matter.” – Fr. Andrew [32:21]
- “He can do anything he likes. He can work directly... But he’s given me that privilege out of love.” – Fr. Stephen [33:45]
- Sharing as Divine Mode: God shares His love by letting angels and saints participate in His work, which enriches both the giver and receiver.
6. Agency, Free Will, and Guardian Angels
[53:29–55:09]
- Free Will in Angels: Angels have agency; their alignment with God is voluntary not coerced. This is critical for understanding the concept of obedience.
- “The fact that you voluntarily align your will and your activity with God’s... does not mean you don’t have free will.” – Fr. Stephen [54:17]
- Guardian Angels: Tradition, liturgy, and prayers support the idea of angels assigned to individuals—especially at baptism—but the specifics are not “boxed in.”
- “It doesn’t all have to be prose. Poetry is okay.” – Fr. Stephen [51:07]
7. The Fall and Repentance of Angels: Entwined with Humanity
[56:13–60:46]
- Mutual Alignment: Angelic “falls” coincide with human rebellion—angels align with humans in rejecting God, not in isolation.
- “Every time that happens, there is some angelic being and some human being... who align their wills with each other over against... God’s will.” – Fr. Stephen [57:56]
- Repentant Demons?: Even rare patristic stories about demons “repenting” involve their interaction with “particularly holy” humans, reflecting humanity’s unique mediatorial role.
8. Thoughts, Influences & The Noetic Struggle
[64:05–65:30]
- Spiritual Warfare: Angels send “positive, godly thoughts”; demons send those that destroy. We cooperate by nurturing good thoughts into ideas and actions.
- “This is part of what we’re talking about... replacing the negative with the positive.” – Fr. Stephen [65:30]
- Guided Discernment: “Is this thought going to help my salvation or harm it?” – Fr. Andrew [65:40]
9. Misattributing Angelic Action to the Holy Spirit
[66:03–75:32]
- Common Protestant Error: Attributing every insight or feeling to the “direct” action of the Holy Spirit rather than recognizing angelic mediation.
- “The Holy Spirit gave me this… Often it's the Holy Spirit told me to tell you.” – Fr. Andrew [66:39]
- “That wasn’t the Holy Spirit, bro.” – Fr. Stephen [67:07]
- Healthy Humility: Spiritual impressions should be offered with humility (“it seems to me...”) instead of dogmatic “God told me” assertions.
10. Angels as Intermediaries in Prayer; Mediation and Intercession
[84:18–94:51; 97:07–106:08]
- Guardian Angels Intercede: Drawing from Christ’s words (Mt. 18:10), guardian angels present our needs to God, not because God needs information, but as a participation in love.
- “That angel is always before the throne of the Father in heaven... acting as an intermediary, sharing in this relationship of love.” – Fr. Stephen [85:49–86:50]
- Mediation Not “In Place Of”: The oft-cited verse (1 Tim. 2:5) about “one mediator” is read contextually to support, not contradict, the practice of intercession:
- “I desire that intercessions be made for all men... because there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” – Fr. Stephen [99:08]
- “The mediation Jesus does is a different mediation than intercessory prayer. It’s in addition, not in place of.” – Fr. Stephen [100:47]
- Intercessory prayer as love: Praying for others and asking for their prayers is a communion of love, not a negotiation of spiritual efficiency.
11. The Battleground: Spiritual Warfare and the Human Mind
[108:26–113:44]
- Not Physical Combat: “Spiritual warfare” between angels and demons is not literal sword-fighting but a struggle over human hearts, minds, and will—what thoughts we nurture, what actions we take.
- The Devil’s Goal: Demonic forces seek to destroy humanity; God works to save and redeem.
- “The battlefield between angels and demons is your mind, your heart, your thoughts.” – Fr. Stephen [112:49]
- The Choice is Ongoing: We continually choose whom to follow: “Deuteronomy... here is life and death, blessings and curses. Each of us has a choice to make...”
Notable Quotes & Moments
- On hierarchy: “A bishop is not a different species than a layperson... they just have a different role...” – Fr. Stephen [09:04]
- On love vs. efficiency: “Efficiency... is completely irrelevant to an omnipotent being.” – Fr. Andrew [32:21]
- On prayer as love: “Praying for someone, really with some effort, is one of the highest forms of love for that person.” – Fr. Stephen [106:08]
- On misguided “God told me” rhetoric: “That wasn’t the Holy Spirit, bro.” – Fr. Stephen [67:07]
- On the isolation of modern believers: “It’s a crowded spiritual world... There’s this whole, as Scripture says, ‘great cloud of witnesses’ present with us all the time.” – Fr. Andrew [113:44]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Topic | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Angelic hierarchy and uniqueness | 04:35–09:00 | | Archangels in tradition | 10:08–12:36 | | Angelic function post-Christ | 14:44–16:34 | | Human saints as “angelic” mediators | 23:06–24:01 | | The “noetic world” and agency of spirits | 25:02–27:20 | | The purpose of mediation: Love not efficiency | 31:03–34:54 | | Guardian angels, their agency, and free will | 53:29–55:09 | | The fall of angels: Linked to human rebellion | 56:13–60:46 | | Angels in the realm of thought: positive influences | 64:05–65:30 | | Attribution errors: Angelic vs. Holy Spirit impulses | 66:03–75:32 | | Angels’ intercessory role; 1 Tim 2:5 explained | 97:07–101:22 | | Angels, prayer, and the battle for the mind | 108:26–113:44 | | Concluding remarks on isolation and spiritual world | 113:44–117:31 |
Memorable Touches
- Humor throughout: (“Angels are influencers… click the bell…" [80:37], “No angelic unemployment after the Ascension.” [77:05])
- Pop culture references: Journey, Chocolate Rain, The Sound of Music, Marvel Comics, Highlander, and more, all for levity and illustration.
Takeaways
- Angels are real, active, and individual beings serving specific roles, not unlike human community members with unique responsibilities.
- Humans in Christ are elevated to a unique place “even above the angels,” sharing in the “business” of guiding, interceding, and caring for others within God’s love.
- Intercessory prayer—of both angels and saints—is not about spiritual “efficiency,” nor does it place intermediaries “in the way”; it is a loving communion, made possible and meaningful through Christ’s mediation.
- Spiritual warfare is not a mythic battle in the clouds but a real contest waged in the realm of human thought, intention, and action.
- Christians are never truly alone; the spiritual world is “crowded,” and engagement with angels and saints is a vital antidote to isolation and loneliness.
For questions and further engagement:
- Email LordOfSpirits@ancientfaith.com or leave a voicemail at speakpipe.com/LordOfSpirits
“Blessed are you, for you are never alone and the cloud of witnesses surrounds you.”