Jake Arrieta & John Lackey on no-hitters, beer fridges & more Cubs World Series tales | Ross & Rizzo

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Lovable Reunion

Episode: Jake Arrieta & John Lackey on no-hitters, beer fridges & more Cubs World Series tales
Hosts: Anthony Rizzo & David Ross
Guests: Jake Arrieta & John Lackey
Release Date: April 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special 10th-anniversary episode of The Lovable Reunion, Anthony Rizzo and David Ross bring listeners inside the 2016 Chicago Cubs clubhouse with pitchers Jake Arrieta and John Lackey. Together, they revisit the unforgettable World Series run, sharing untold stories, clubhouse dynamics, pitching philosophies, personal growth, and the lasting brotherhood forged during that historic season. The conversation is candid, funny, deeply reflective, and loaded with fond memories and insider anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Career Longevity, Team Chemistry, and the Changing Game

• Veterans’ Influence & the Modern MLB:
  • John Lackey and Jake Arrieta discuss the importance of having the right mix of young and veteran players for clubhouse chemistry.
    • “The locker room matters, man... Chemistry in the locker room is a big deal.” – Jake Arrieta (03:52)
  • They reflect on the changes in the game: increased athleticism, social media pressures, emphasis on keeping pitchers healthy, and shorter pitching outings due to dominant bullpens.
    • “We got strong seven guys down there that can throw mid upper 90s, 100% deeper probably.” – John Lackey (05:35)
  • Rizzo and Ross highlight that today’s game is harder for players to have long careers due to these demands.

2. Jake Arrieta’s Cubs Transformation

• Finding Himself After Baltimore:
  • Arrieta recalls arriving in Chicago as a “dude” who hadn’t put it all together and how the Cubs’ support system unlocked his potential.
    • “The first thing that I said to Theo and to Boss when I got traded is I'm going to come over here and be myself and just let it all hang out... I know how to be an elite starter.” – Jake Arrieta (07:23)
  • Discusses the self-belief that he would become an elite MLB starter, despite early struggles.

3. The Horse Mentality & Internal Competition

• Pushing Each Other:
  • The pitchers describe the subtle, motivating sibling rivalry on the 2016 staff, constantly striving to outdo one another while remaining united.
    • “It's like that inner competition of brotherhood... every one of you was better than the next.” – Anthony Rizzo (09:19)
• Staying Healthy and Consistent:
  • One key to ‘16 was durability; the starting rotation “posted” every fifth day with almost no missed starts.

4. Turning Point Moments (2015 Wild Card Game & Giants/Cardinals Rivalry)

• The Pittsburgh Wild Card Game:
  • Arrieta’s ultimate self-confidence before his dominant, shutout performance, including his now-legendary tweet to Pirates fans.
    • “‘Whatever helps keep your hopes alive. Just know it doesn’t matter.’ ...that’s bold. Fuck you; it’s over.” – Anthony Rizzo quoting Jake Arrieta’s tweet (13:44)
  • Arrieta describes the intentional “confidence” he carried: “I would not have done that if I didn’t believe it.”
• Setting the Tone for Future Cubs Teams:
  • The 2015 win over the Cardinals and the Pirates game are credited as the real turnaround moments for Cubs culture and expectations.
    • “That confidence might have pushed you guys over the edge.” – Jake Arrieta (15:54)

5. Inside the Pitchers’ Mindset, Routines, and Clubhouse Rituals

• Routine and Preparation:
  • Both pitchers detail their five-day routines: heavy focus on recovery, arm care, and mental preparation, as well as “earning your party” after starts.
• Beer Fridges and Team Bonding:
  • The infamous “beer fridge” between the starters’ lockers is reminisced as a symbol of balancing hard work and hard fun.
    • “You got to earn your party... If you’re gonna stay up with the owls, you got to get up and soar with the eagles.” – Jake Arrieta (51:10)
  • Arrieta and Lackey both talk about modeling accountability: if you’re out late, you show up first to work out the next day.

6. No-Hitter Stories and Catcher-Pitcher Bonds

• Catching No-Hitters:
  • Ross shares the nerves and pride of catching Arrieta’s no-hitter in Cincinnati, remembering how Arrieta stuck with his fastball philosophy over Ross’s game plans.
    • “I felt like he held my hand like, no, no, I’ve already got one of these. Come with me, big boy.” – David Ross (44:29)
  • Tradition of gifting luxury watches between pitcher and catcher to commemorate the feat.

7. Building a Championship Team/Brotherhood

• Team Dinners and Off-the-Field Bonding:
  • Elaborate team dinners, veterans picking up tabs, family inclusion, and travel adventures (Pebble Beach, Kenny Chesney concerts) are highlighted as key ingredients of their unbreakable bond.
    • “Camaraderie and chemistry is getting to know your teammates’ significant other or girlfriend, or kids... you’re pulling for a guy on a personal level.” – John Lackey (41:29)

8. Managing Adversity and Setting Expectations

• World Series Memories:
  • The guys relive the dramatic arc from the NLDS (Giants), NLCS (Dodgers), to the historic Game 7 comeback against Cleveland.
  • The rain delay and Jason Heyward’s famous speech are described as an organic, vital reset.
    • “We didn’t come this far, just, you know, to come this far.” – Jake Arrieta (77:09)
• Veterans’ Example:
  • Lackey’s iconic line:
    • "I didn't come here for the haircut. I came here for jewelry." (36:31)

9. Impact and Legacy of the 2016 Season

• Realizing the Significance:
  • The guests and hosts discuss the enduring emotional impact the championship holds for fans, families, and themselves—often more fully appreciated with time.
    • “Time has to pass. And like, saying, like, that city treated me like I was you guys, like the backup catcher.” – David Ross (79:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On self-belief & overcoming adversity:
  “I tweeted back at somebody and said, one day I’ll be an elite starter in the big leagues. You know, I just had that self-belief, man.” – Jake Arrieta (08:06)

• On accountability & leadership:
  “If you partake in some of the fun and you don’t show up and do your work, you lose the trust.” – John Lackey (52:01)

• On the World Series rain delay:
  “We didn’t come this far just, you know, to come this far. Like, we still had a great opportunity and I think the boys still believed.” – Jake Arrieta (77:09)

• On winning as a brotherhood:
  “When you’re doing that on a personal level, like you said, that’s when you win, in my opinion.” – Anthony Rizzo (42:07)

• On the legacy with fans:
  “Have you guys experienced that too? …I didn’t understand exactly how significant it was until more time has passed.” – John Lackey (79:43)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Intro & Longevity in Baseball (02:35–04:56)
• Arrieta’s Transition & Breakout with the Cubs (06:28–08:29)
• Internal Pitching Staff Competition & Durability in ‘16 (09:19–10:59)
• 2015 Wild Card Game, Elite Confidence (13:44–15:48)
• No-Hitter Tradition & Pitcher-Catcher Relationships (43:00–47:08)
• Clubhouse Rituals: Beer Fridge & Accountability (50:09–52:13)
• Team Bonding, Dinners, and Veteran Influence (40:02–41:40; 52:29–54:01)
• Playoff & World Series Run; The Rain Delay (58:22–78:59)
• Reflecting on the Ring, Parade, and Legacy (81:00–84:12)
• Final Thoughts: Leadership, Resilience, and Brotherhood (84:43–89:20)
• Game Evolution: Facing Velocity & Analytics (89:44–92:50)

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Episode Takeaways

• Leadership is both vocal and by example—from intimidating presence to supportive guidance, Arrieta and Lackey embody different yet complementary veteran models.
• Clubhouse chemistry is often created off the field—in hotel bars, at family dinners, and private plane adventures as much as through in-game performance.
• Longevity and resilience require both physical and mental adaptation—their stories span multiple eras of baseball.
• Championship culture is built on mutual respect and high standards, but also on fun and deep personal bonds.
• The significance of the 2016 Cubs runs far beyond the box score—it's woven into the personal histories of players, fans, and the city itself.

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Closing

The conversation is a celebration of not just what was achieved on the field in 2016, but the family that made it possible, the obstacles overcome, and the memories that endure. Even ten years on, the lessons and camaraderie of the “Lovable Reunion” keep resonating as a blueprint for championship teams and lifelong friendships.

Transcript

[John Lackey]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

[David Ross]

It's the enhanced games.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Some call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all.

[David Ross]

Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year, within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app,

[John Lackey]

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Arrieta]

My mother in law spent years sabotaging

[Anthony Rizzo]

our relationship until karma made her pay for it.

[David Ross]

All right, Sofia, tell me about how we started this story.

[John Lackey]

She moved in for two weeks, lasted

[Jake Arrieta]

five days, left a mess and then

[David Ross]

pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming.

[John Lackey]

When kicked out to a hotel, she

[Anthony Rizzo]

called her son in law's workplace pretending

[David Ross]

his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. She faked a medical emergency.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And spoiler, that was just the beginning.

[David Ross]

To find out how it ends, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on on

[Anthony Rizzo]

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

[David Ross]

you get your podcasts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

[David Ross]

From iHeart podcasts, Saigon.

[Jake Arrieta]

You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam?

[Anthony Rizzo]

One city, a divided country and the

[David Ross]

war that tore America apart?

[John Lackey]

This is for Vietnam.

[David Ross]

They're pouring petrol all over here. Freedom for Vietnam. There's a fire coming to this country

[Anthony Rizzo]

and it's going to burn out everything.

[David Ross]

Listen to Saigon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already

[David Ross]

know that's a lot to break down.

[John Lackey]

Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding K Michelle back from fighting. Drew Pinky has financial issues.

[Anthony Rizzo]

On the podcast Reality with the King

[David Ross]

I, Carlos King recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows including the

[Anthony Rizzo]

Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances

[David Ross]

and the tea everybody's talking about.

[Anthony Rizzo]

To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the king on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Anthony Rizzo, David Ross, Jake Irida, John Lackey. Welcome back to another episode of the Level reunion podcast where we're celebrating our 10 year anniversary of the iconic 2016 World Series J Championship. We're with two staples of our team, John Lackey and Jake Arietta. Welcome to the program the Horses.

[John Lackey]

Good to be here with you guys.

[Anthony Rizzo]

This is bro you're we're celebrating 10 years you just celebrated a 20 year a few years ago, bro.

[Jake Arrieta]

Don't make me so old. Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The originator of the ABC collection of rings.

[Jake Arrieta]

I look a lot better in that team deal because I'm the young guy in that team deal. This one, I'm going to be the, you know, the gray hair old guy in the back.

[David Ross]

But that's what I say about you. You all, you got the, you started the Alphabet of rings. Anaheim, Boston and chicag. The ABCs. Like, it's freaking impressive when you look back, we were on the same flight our rookie year. You had won the World Series pitch in game seven and I was coming from the Dodgers. We went to a union meeting up in Pebble Beach.

[Jake Arrieta]

Pebble Beach?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Black was playing with dudes that were born playing. Before I was born. He was playing with guys playing in

[John Lackey]

the 80s for sure.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, we had a couple dudes. Yeah, I had some great group of vets, man. Took care of me.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It was cool. You're young to me. You're forever young for me.

[Jake Arrieta]

Thank you. My guy.

[David Ross]

That's actually something that I think, like some of the, the themes for these things are like, how people influence you. Right. And like you came up in an old school group. You know, Percival, you had all these guys in Anaheim. Like, what have you taken from your time winning three championships and, and three different real teams as the games evolve? Like, what did you learn early age from, from your veteran play teammates?

[Jake Arrieta]

The locker room matters, man. Like, chemistry in the locker room is a big deal. Like you got to have, you know, the right kind of veterans in there. You got to have a good mix, man. Like, you got to have the young, young, hungry guys and you got to have the old guys have kind of been around and, and know what to do and know how to kind of harness the young guys a little bit. And I think. And all three teams that I've been on, I mean, you were on two of them with me. We had, we had that mix. It was fun.

[David Ross]

Thanks for the rings. Thanks for the rings.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. You never lost in the final dance.

[Jake Arrieta]

I mean, I told you on the

[Anthony Rizzo]

plane when we were going, I have a second place ring.

[John Lackey]

This sucks.

[Jake Arrieta]

If you're gonna get in there, you might as well win.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That's what I was saying.

[John Lackey]

You know what's most impressive too, is the longevity, like how long he played for. And that's kind of something that's probably not gonna happen as much in this game anymore. 16 years, right?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

I mean, and as a pitcher too, or position player, that's that's incredibly.

[Jake Arrieta]

It will be harder. I mean guys are. Let's be honest, the guys are getting bigger, faster and stronger. Man, these dudes are going a million miles an hour.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Like the demand. I feel like the demand now is more than ever.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

As a baseball player and in general, just the stress, all the extra media, social media, all that added pressures I think is going to.

[David Ross]

Well, you and you guys.

[Jake Arrieta]

I didn't have to worry about camera phones when I first came up.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Now you're dating yourself.

[David Ross]

Well, you guys like seven innings was like what you like I'm just going out there, I'm trying to throw a no hitter. But like seven innings is like okay. I feel like I did my job. Now it's like five, you know, 100 pitches.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Let's just get to it. I'm at 90. I don't want to go back considered

[Jake Arrieta]

a success unless I win at least seven.

[John Lackey]

Well, don't you think that some of that is because of how. How good the guys in the bullpen are? Not that they weren't before the game is.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You get.

[John Lackey]

You got strong seven guys down there that can throw mid upper 90s, 100% deeper probably. Yeah.

[David Ross]

And they've got two secondaries now. Remember there's like one guy maybe sinker slider down there, the, the, the velocity. But to your point, it's like no, there's like legit stuff down there. 100 a lot of the times and

[John Lackey]

two secondaries and obviously we wanted to go out there and, and keep the ball in our hand until the game was over every time. And I, I think the guys now they also want to do that. But do you think some of it is. I want to keep this guy healthy and preserve some of his stuff for later in the season.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I think the Dodgers blueprint right now is what everyone should be striving or just be healthy in October with the with extra two wild card teams it's not as hard to get into the playoffs and wild car around or buy

[Jake Arrieta]

you just roll they full on give guys like vacations. Yeah, it's great the year just so they're ready at the end.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Keep them fresh.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Jake, you we were talking about longevity with you lack which is you've been just so consistent throughout your entire career. You kind of had a different path with getting drafted to Baltimore. I remember you getting traded in 13 and it was like this guy is a dude but he just hasn't really figured it out yet at this level. And arguably the best trade in Cubs history. You and Strophe for the value of you too. It's not about me. It's not about me.

[David Ross]

It comes out every episode. It can get on Riz, that's nice.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But, bro, you came over. You and Stropi, you. You make two starts in Iowa and then you get back to the big leagues. And then I remember John Baker always saying, dude, Ariet is nasty. This dude's gonna win a scion. You don't understand how good he is once he figures it out. And you've obviously figured it out.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, well. And we've all seen guys that have incredible stuff and some of them just can't quite harness it and figure it out. I was in a position where I was trying to be somebody that I wasn't, you know, and I was. I was working really hard on making some adjustments and I just didn't feel like myself. And so the first thing that I, I said to Theo and to Boss when I got traded is I'm going to come over here and be myself and just let it all hang out. Like, I know I know how to be an elite starter. And I think I tweeted something like when I got traded or I might have got sent down from Baltimore and I'm getting a lot of shit from. From fans. And as a young guy, you. You pay attention to that stuff.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, of course.

[David Ross]

For sure.

[John Lackey]

It's hard not to.

[Anthony Rizzo]

For sure.

[John Lackey]

So I kind of tweeted back at somebody and said, one day I'll be an elite starter in the big leagues. You know, I just had that self belief, man. Well, I just. I just knew what I was capable of, you know, and it was just a matter of time before I, you know, was able to have some success and just build off of that, you know, and going to Chicago and having a support system and guys that were in my corner was. Was what really made the difference for me.

[David Ross]

I remember facing this is like before I got Chicago, but in 14, you almost threw a no hitter in Boston. I played that game. You threw me a front hit cutter at like 93. And I'm like, what was that? Sit down. And I knew when Lester was getting courted over here and just talking like, okay, well, they've got two horses because I just faced this guy and Johnny, I knew what he was capable of. And you were still in St. Louis, but you're talking about like, okay, you've got two number ones at the top of a pitching staff. Like, that's, that's gold for a catch.

[Jake Arrieta]

The whole story.

[John Lackey]

Well, and it was, you Know, obviously, Lester had done his thing for a number of years. He was already that guy. And it was my job to kind of get to that level, you know, so we could continue to move forward and. And, you know, stop getting beat by St. Louis.

[Jake Arrieta]

Well, it's like.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's like we're talking about this with kb. Like, me and kb. I love him, but, like, I wanted to be better than him. And it's like that inner competition of brotherhood that, like, bro, when you guys were rolling in 16, like, every one of you was better than the next.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When everyone was rolling and it was like, you. You did your job, and then you were like, I want to do better than that. And then Lester's like, I want to do better. And you got Carl and Hamill. It's like. Well, and it's all love the thing that.

[David Ross]

The thing. When I look back on, like, you guys po. Our staff posted. Like, you guys posted every fifth day. Like, we didn't have any banged up. Real injuries to that staff. Like, everybody stayed pretty healthy that year. If I remember right.

[John Lackey]

Like, if you.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

If you look at it, we'd have to check the amount of starts, but I don't know if. I don't think you missed a start.

[Jake Arrieta]

Not that you.

[John Lackey]

I didn't miss a start, Hendricks.

[David Ross]

The only start we can blame on is Theo when he brought in the. The.

[Jake Arrieta]

The Madison. He might have ended my career on that one.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I had.

[Jake Arrieta]

I had to warm up twice on the freaking bullpen. Yeah.

[David Ross]

During that. Yeah, I remember that because he. I remember we actually were talking to Madden about that and. And lesson. Everybody was mad. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Everybody was fine.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. Outside of a cup, maybe a couple spot starts, we were out there.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Every.

[John Lackey]

Every fifth day, all five of us.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. Remember that? He did bring him up to.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. I want your perspective in 15, because I tell the story. The Cardinals were the cream of the crop. They're the gold standard of baseball division, blah, blah, blah. The Cardinals. And they would come over when we stunk. You probably remember this with old Wrigley. They'd come over to the weight room and all their guys. Hey, Riz, what's up, man? They talk to us like, buddy, buddy.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And then the first half of 15, you guys were beating us, but we were like. We were pesky to you, but we didn't know how to win yet. And in the back half, we started winning. You guys still won the division. Yeah, we were 97. Pirates were 98. What. What was that like on. Because we. I feel like on our Side we knew we were winning. Like, we knew we. I felt like we had your guys number, not necessarily you, but what was that on the other side? Or did you not even pay attention?

[Jake Arrieta]

I mean, you know, you kind of lock into your own thing, you know, trying to do your thing, but 100% saw. Saw you guys on an upward trajectory, you know, I mean, like, y' all were getting better and you know, obviously, you know, this, this guy turned into an elite dude. And I knew, you know, the big left hander just that's my guy. No, I mean, I know I've known him for a long time and I knew what he was going to do. He and this guy. You had a couple of president, you had a couple of men in the room, guys that came over and turned. Turned some of you young kids into pros and you guys started winning. And that was one of the reasons I wanted to come joined when I. When I had the opportunity.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, because. Well, I mean, 15, we'll go back to basically really starting 14. For me, Boston was that. Yeah, that was like.

[Jake Arrieta]

I remember one. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Snakes turning into.

[Jake Arrieta]

It was nasty.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And we were young. We stunk in 13, like. But we're building and you're part of that. You're especially big a part of a

[Jake Arrieta]

Fenway that's a big boy.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We just start a group like, and then in 15 we build and you're doing your thing. Especially that second half. I think it's the best second half of baseball history. Right?

[David Ross]

Literally, bro.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We roll.

[John Lackey]

For now. For now.

[David Ross]

For now.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We roll.

[David Ross]

I was a part of in Atlanta. Chris Medlin had had a run like that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Oh yeah.

[David Ross]

And I remember think I was like this dude. Like it was win day. I mean, for all our staff. But it was like you guys at the top were like, oh yeah, we're winning today.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. He went on a pretty nice run.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

I wanna, I wanna ask a quick just to follow up with the relationship with Lester. Like, you got to give the bet the bat. He gets his first hit. Oh, man. Right. He goes first hit off. You pitching mad as hell. You're so bad.

[Jake Arrieta]

Oh, man.

[David Ross]

What was the bet we had?

[Jake Arrieta]

We had, you know, drinks, we're gonna hang out. We were. I was going to his house after the game, no matter what, you know, I mean, so yeah, and we had. I forgot the exact bed. But yeah, we. We had some action on it. But I went over to his house and drank a nice bottle of whiskey at his house and got it, got it back.

[David Ross]

Good first knock off. You I think that made his.

[Jake Arrieta]

Then I looked. I looked over there and he was trying so hard not to look at me because I was. I was just about going to yell at him and he was like looking down like this. He was like. He's like, I'm not looking at him. I'm not like. Cuz he was trying not to laugh.

[David Ross]

Yeah, it was.

[Jake Arrieta]

It was pretty hilarious.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That was a good one.

[Jake Arrieta]

We.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When we get in the playoffs of 15, I want to read this verbatim. Whatever helps keep your hopes alive. Just know it doesn't matter.

[John Lackey]

Isn't that great?

[David Ross]

Yeah, the best.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We're playing Pittsburgh and Snake tweets just the day before the game, the wild card game, saying basically to all the Pirates fans, that's baldy. Fuck you, it's over.

[John Lackey]

I was just in that. In that place.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Damn right.

[John Lackey]

Everything was locked in, dialed, you know, the. The week leading up to my start, like everything was perfect, you know, And I was just trying to see because, you know, at some point, like you, that it's not going to last forever.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right, of course.

[John Lackey]

But in that moment, that. That stretch, what made you tweak that? Just ultimate confidence, you know, and did have the ultimate.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Ultimate confidence in the best way possible.

[Jake Arrieta]

I watched.

[John Lackey]

Right. Well.

[Jake Arrieta]

And nasty too.

[John Lackey]

And it helped my teammates.

[David Ross]

I'm about to say that helped my teammates. I agree.

[John Lackey]

No, and it wasn't coming. It was coming from a place of. Of ultimate preparation too, you know, I would not have done that if I didn't believe it, you know? And so you did it, bro. The funny thing is, we're on the flight out there, kind of walking up and down the plain aisle with a glass of wine and just telling everybody, hey, get me one.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That's what Dexter gave me.

[John Lackey]

Just give me one and the game's over. You know, that's. That's how I felt.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I know.

[John Lackey]

And when Schwarber hit that homer, that was it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That was the game.

[John Lackey]

That was it, bro.

[Anthony Rizzo]

What about when Tony Watson hit you?

[John Lackey]

I think, you know, I haven't heard this from any guys on their side. I think they were trying to get me out of the game.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Of course.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, I think they were trying to.

[David Ross]

No doubt.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, bro.

[John Lackey]

They were trying to cause some sort of situation and I. I knew it too. I was fired up.

[David Ross]

Yeah, but you were calm about it.

[John Lackey]

I was pretty relatively calm. And he hit me in the belt, so it was like, probably the best

[Anthony Rizzo]

spot to get very professional.

[John Lackey]

Very professional.

[David Ross]

I think that, like, looking back, and obviously I'm not. We're Not Cubs historians here, but, like, as far as, like, turning a franchise around and what the expectations were and how big that moment was, like, that's the biggest game in Cubs history.

[Jake Arrieta]

To me, with his confidence gave you guys confidence. You guys kind of needed that to push.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

Because y' all were on the edge of, like, are we there yet or not? Yeah. And. And that confidence might have pushed you guys over the edge.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, well, we. I mean, we get. We. Joe Madden, Lester Trafford, Dexter. You're blossoming. We have KB, all the young guys under 25, 26 years old. You know, we're all going. And the. Our division was a gauntlet that year, a beast. So you set the tone there. And then we roll into St. Louis, and we're like, we're going to these guys up, and then we run to this guy who goes, what, seven and a third? I think maybe one run on us in the game. One shove it up our ass.

[Jake Arrieta]

Me and Lester, I think. Right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. And I remember that, like, after that game, we had an off day, and we all went to dinner at ruth Chris in St. Louis, and we were like. I was, like, nervous. I'd never been to the playoffs. I had one game. I'm like, damn. Like, what do we do? And, like, you guys were so calm. Like, no, it's all right. We're fine. We're fine. Yeah, we win the next three, and it's like, we just beat the Pirates, who were really good at the time, and then the gold standard, and it was like, we're winning the World Series this year. Yeah. Like, I was heartbroken when we got swept in 15, but that belief in that game was like, yeah, that's our dude.

[David Ross]

Right? Like, the dude that carries you.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Season you were having, especially the second half, like, you have that confidence in there when the horse. When you have the horse on the. Everybody's just more confident. That's why starting pitching so important, because you guys just set the tone.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not

[John Lackey]

only legal, but encouraged.

[David Ross]

It's the enhanced games.

[John Lackey]

Some call it grotesque.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it

[David Ross]

all, embedded in the games and with the athletes. For a full year, within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app,

[John Lackey]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Do you remember when Diana Ross double tapped Lil Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

[John Lackey]

Or when Kanye said that George Bush

[Anthony Rizzo]

didn't like black people.

[John Lackey]

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Lil Kim?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, you can find out on the

[Jake Arrieta]

Look Back at It podcast.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down and try to make

[Jake Arrieta]

sense of how we survived it, including

[David Ross]

a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill

[John Lackey]

waxing all about crack in the 80s.

[Jake Arrieta]

To be clear, 84 was big to

[David Ross]

me, not just cause of crack. I've dabbed talking about crack all day, but yeah, yeah, but just so y' all know, I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table

[John Lackey]

right now, so thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more

[David Ross]

important year for black people. Really?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most

[David Ross]

important years for black people in American history. Listen to Look Back at it on

[John Lackey]

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Ross]

My mother in law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it. Wait a minute, Dakota, how bad did it get? Well, it got bad enough that her son in law had to eventually arrest her himself. Oh, she moved in for two weeks, lasted for five. She left nail clippings in the bathtub, candy stuck to the furniture, and then she pressed her ear against the bedroom door and burst in screaming. She did not burst in while they were she kicked her out and paid for her hotel and they thought it's finally over. Days later, she called her son in law at work claiming that his partner had been in some kind of freak accident and had been rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. He called every hospital in the city and his partner was making coffee the entire time.

[Anthony Rizzo]

She faked a medical emergency just to

[David Ross]

test whether or not he loved her son. Yeah, and she sat in the hospital parking lot waiting for him to see if he would show up. When that didn't work, she walked into the son in law's police station and filed a kidnapping report against him.

[John Lackey]

She filed a kidnapping report against him

[David Ross]

him in his own police station. And spoilers, Karma's gonna show up in the best way possible. So if you want to hear how this story ends, search OK, Storytime on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to Podcasts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta.

[John Lackey]

You already know there's a lot to break down. Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding K. Michelle back from fighting. Drew Pinky has financial issues.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's gonna be interesting. On the podcast Reality with the King,

[David Ross]

I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the tea everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television,

[Anthony Rizzo]

I'm not just watching it.

[John Lackey]

I understand the game.

[Anthony Rizzo]

As somebody who creates shows, I'll even

[John Lackey]

say this at the end of the

[David Ross]

day when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Listen to Reality with the king on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[David Ross]

And speaking of setting tones, just go back like your standard. Have you ever thrown a first pitch of the game, breaking ball or anything but a heater?

[Jake Arrieta]

Hell, no. No.

[David Ross]

I remember talking. I remember Boz or Joe coming to you, talking about, hey, Arizona, they jumped you for a first pitch homer, and. And they're trying to talk to you. Hey, man, you throw that fastball, they know it's coming, and you're like, I don't give a. Yeah, that's like.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But that's who you know you're playing behind. Like, you're playing behind your guy.

[David Ross]

Here we come.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not going to show you that I'm scared of you. First pitch. And that's the mentality.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

The way you pitch, bro, is like, it sets a tone.

[Jake Arrieta]

Well, I know for a fact, like, I, I gave up two first pitch homers in my career.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That's it.

[Jake Arrieta]

And yeah, I know, because I, I did keep the end. I can't tell you how many times they got out on the first pitch.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right.

[Jake Arrieta]

You know, so probably, I guarantee mathematically I won that battle.

[Anthony Rizzo]

One.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. The leadoff guy, Kansas City. It was at home in. It was in Wrigley, the little, little Latin guy. Leadoff, was it.

[David Ross]

Oh,

[John Lackey]

my first pair. Yeah. But still, like, I'm not. I'm not throwing a breaking ball.

[Anthony Rizzo]

First patch. Yeah. Wow.

[John Lackey]

I'm gonna throw you a heavy sinker. And if you want to take a chance of getting out, go for it. But hey, before we get too far away from the Pirates game, my favorite part of the game, other than being carried by you on your shoulder at the end of the game, getting punched

[Anthony Rizzo]

in the ribs, I got hit by

[John Lackey]

Watson, I get to first base, Hider leans over to me, goes steal second. Oh, what? All right. I love that I stole second base. I forgot about having a stolen base in the playoffs is probably.

[Jake Arrieta]

Hell yeah.

[John Lackey]

One of my favorite things, you have

[Anthony Rizzo]

a CG shutout, a stolen by pitch,

[David Ross]

a CG when they weren't letting people go.

[Anthony Rizzo]

CGs and a homer.

[John Lackey]

Right. Well, and there was a.

[Jake Arrieta]

But it wasn't even in doubt. He was it.

[David Ross]

He was no doubt.

[John Lackey]

We had one situation. I think there was bases load in the fifth.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Made the error. There was an error, Made the error.

[John Lackey]

And then next play, ground ball, double play.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, that was huge.

[David Ross]

He said he. He told the story of like, that's as nervous, as loud as he's ever been after they booted that ball. Bases loaded, one out, and you got that double play.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, it's the first time that was louder than when Raja hit the homework for me because my first time ever in that first. They're blacked out there. All the fans, they're screaming at us like miserable Pittsburgh people just screaming and went there, went silent.

[John Lackey]

Did you see they had posters of Britney? No, I love that posters of her.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's pretty.

[John Lackey]

And also from the tweet, they had the big signs that said we do matter.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. You haunt that.

[John Lackey]

Well in those situations, you know, you. You guys can probably, you know, speak to this too. Nothing. The noise, the fans didn't matter.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

At a certain point, it was me and the guy at the plate and the guy I'm throwing to. That's it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We.

[John Lackey]

The noise, kind of the noise helped me.

[Jake Arrieta]

When you're someone like that, you helped. You probably didn't hear, bro.

[David Ross]

You had.

[John Lackey]

You can feel the vibration from the crowd.

[Jake Arrieta]

But.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, but it's. It's not a negative. But it was never a negative thing.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You were always so locked into, like, with what you were doing that it was like even talking to you. I feel like I always talk to the pitchers for the most part, not so much. You lack. But

[David Ross]

he's a scary one to play behind. He was scared.

[Anthony Rizzo]

He was so locked in with like, yeah, I just threw a bad pitch. Let's whatever, I'm on to the next. And I was like, so laser focused. Probably was one of the most laser focused.

[John Lackey]

Well, I think it's because I had such a hard time with that early

[Anthony Rizzo]

in my career, you know, So I

[John Lackey]

was so concerned about the hit or the hit by pitch or the walk. I'm like, oh, can't do that again. It's like, no, I Mean things happen. Let's. Let's tow the rubber, and this is the only one that matters.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's cool. You flipped it.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, well, and we were talking about it before, you know, he didn't. He didn't need a lot of the mental game stuff. He kept it super simple. Like, my job is to execute this pitch. If I don't, I'm gonna execute the next one for me. And I think it had to do with kind of the progression of my. The early years of my career. I needed some of that. I needed. I needed kind of a strategy to. To deal with that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

And for first. First and foremost, it was preparation was number one, you know, And I think what was most impressive watching you and watching Lester is like, how prepared you guys were with everything. You had a checklist pretty much without actually having it on paper. I got to do abc, X, Y, Z, throw my bullpen, take care of my shoulder, do my routine, and then I know when I tow the rubber on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. This is the fun part.

[David Ross]

What was your five day? I want to hear both you guys five day routine without. Without the alcohol, drinking.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Oh, no, I want to hear all of it.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, like day. Like day after would always be like a long, long cardio session. And legs, like, lift legs. And then second. Second day would be I usually throw my bullpen upper body and then like some interval work kind of deal and a lot of shoulder. Like, you know, get your shoulder tight, you know, all those, you know, little weights, all that maintenance stuff. And then third day was kind of kind of like a full body, like, kind of kind of like just a little light day. Light on everything, you know, just kind of move it around and run a little bit. And then fourth day was mostly just sprints and like, I would do hot, cold plunge. Especially like my last few years when I got a little older, I felt like the hot, cold plunge made my body feel better the next day kind of stuff.

[David Ross]

So your bullpen, second day. Second second day.

[Anthony Rizzo]

How much alcohol would you consume after the game and into.

[Jake Arrieta]

Well, I mean, let's be. I mean, you guys know I had a bar next to my locker.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, we're gonna get to the beer.

[David Ross]

I get to the beer.

[Jake Arrieta]

But yeah, I mean, like, let's be honest. I'm either gonna celebrate the W or I'm gonna drown my sorrows after the game.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Win, win.

[Jake Arrieta]

One of the two.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Win, win.

[Jake Arrieta]

A cold beer's going down.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, that bro playing behind you and getting to be your teammate was like, so awesome because you see the laser focus, like, you see the intensity, and then you also see the switch turn off into, like, the nicest human being in the world, where it was. Like, in baseball, it's really hard to do that, and there's not a lot of guys that can do that.

[John Lackey]

Tell them why.

[Jake Arrieta]

I.

[John Lackey]

Tell them your mindset.

[Jake Arrieta]

Honestly, God, I wasn't good enough to be. Be happy on the mountain. Like. Like, my. My freaking. I was. I was decently talented, but I. I didn't throw 98 with all the crazy, you know, stuff. I had to be a little angry and had to be a little f You. You know what I mean?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You can always tell you. I got. I got to go to a dark place.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. I have to.

[John Lackey]

On game day.

[Jake Arrieta]

I love that.

[John Lackey]

But then after the game, right, He's.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, I tried. I tried to leave it in. Where are we going to dinner?

[David Ross]

Yeah, where we going? Let's go. I'm buying.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, I'll buy steaks. Let's get it.

[John Lackey]

We.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We. After we get swept, you signing over with us was another, like, momentum for us.

[David Ross]

What.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Who recruited you? Was it. Oh, Lester? Was it Rossi?

[Jake Arrieta]

I didn't.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Theo did.

[Jake Arrieta]

I didn't really tell. Well, dude, Lester called me. Seriously, every day for a couple weeks, like. Like. Or, like, text, like, hey, where we at? Like, and obviously, Theo, we had a. We had a relationship from signing with Boston, and I had obviously had some other teams that were pretty interested and ended up taking less money to come join you guys because I had boys there, and I saw the. The trajectory you guys were on, that it was a chance to win, and winning beats money all day.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, because you came in and, like, instantly, like, were, like, part of. I remember at 16, like, we were talking about winning the World Series right away, and you were part of that 100%. That's not easy. I mean, we just. You just. We just beat you guys so that I know there's hatred. I hated you, basically. I also stunned. I have one hit off lack, and I stunk off it. So, like, the fact that you were able to come in and just start breeding that championship mindset, as well was huge for our young group.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's one thing we did in Boston, too. We talked. We talked about it from day one, and we kind of kind of followed that. That. That playbook a little bit. Like, we'll start talking about the parade right now.

[David Ross]

It's been. It's been a theme in these conversations. Like, guys that, like, KB and Dex, that hadn't been a lot of winnings like, we, we talked about what it was going to look like and, like, foreshadowed and when you've got, you know, guys, the talent we had and, and the experience that we had in the room mixed in with good talent, young guys. I mean, obviously, like, looking back, like, there's a so much talent that room from a young perspective and the, the championships that, that were in that room. I think we had such a good mix. But you, you're such a, you're such a good example of piece of the puzzle, a great teammate. And then when I go to work, I go to work, boys, like, it ain't. We ain't around now. Like, it's, it's, you know, and I, I, you know, I get, I was angry on the days I played because of, like, I don't want to. Not on my day. You know, I mean, not on my day. I get.

[Jake Arrieta]

You have some of that in you too.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Ross]

Well, it's like I get to, I get, you know, I, I joke. Lester stinks. I don't get to my fourth at bat. You know, I like to play the whole nine innings. But like, yeah, it's like there is a. That sense of, that sense of, like, you know, I just don't want to be the guy that lets the boys down. My day. Yeah, I want to win on that day.

[Anthony Rizzo]

What were you thinking? Because from a position player we had, we had, you know, Shoreber, Addie, Javi, kb. We had all these dudes. Dex J. We signed J to that offseason.

[David Ross]

Zobrist.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You were there when we stunk. You were there when the pitching staff wasn't very good. Now we have you, Lester. Carl is shoving and turning into a young superstar.

[Jake Arrieta]

Fun to watch.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You get lack. We have Hamill. Like, what are you thinking from the pitching side? And the leader of that, well, you

[John Lackey]

know, you look at the front office, does their job, and now, hey, they gave us all the pieces necessary to get it done, you know, and we, we've talked about it a lot. It's like we had the perfect storm of, of young talent, veteran leadership, you know, guys like myself and, and Hendrix and some role players. Everybody performed every. I, I, I just can't.

[David Ross]

Great coaching staff.

[John Lackey]

I mean, everybody training staff, coaching staff, the support system, the people behind the scenes that don't get recognition.

[Jake Arrieta]

Comic relief.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. I mean, he's kind of the glue, right?

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

He's talking, you know, and as a starting pitcher, we have one out of five days to show our team why we're here. And what we're capable of. And there was so much more on the line for us, because then if I. We shit the bed, we got to sit here for four days and.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You know, and you're out there every day. Right. And if you. You go for four, you're doing it again tomorrow.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right.

[John Lackey]

If I give up six and three innings, it's like, fuck, I let us down.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You know, we gotta have four or five guys out of the bullpen come in. It changes the complexion of the game completely. And if that's a loss, like, I wear that, I only get to pitch 30, 32 games a year. You're out there at 155 or however many.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So 161 that year, but it's not, okay, fine.

[John Lackey]

But, like, that's. That's. That's why. That's why guys like us went to a certain place. Because I'm not going to allow any bit of. On being unprepared determine whether we win or lose.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Like, if I get. If. If we lose the game that I pitch, it's because I just wasn't. Or the guys on the other side were just a little bit better. And sometimes that happened. Right. I never wanted to give the opponent too much credit, but I heard this a long time ago. It's like, you have to recognize that the guys on the other side get paid a lot of money to play, too.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right.

[John Lackey]

That doesn't mean, hey, if I lost, like, so what? No, it's just. That guy's making 20 million. He's really good, too, right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Oh, yeah.

[David Ross]

I learned that. A great manager moment that just pops in, as you say that. It's like, I. I got a day game in Atlanta. I was playing for the Braves, and I faced Roy Holiday, and I'm up there grinding. And McCann plays Brian McCann's, you know, all Stars. Sick time, Silver slugger. So I've got the day game. Roy Holiday. I'm over four or four punches. I'm dragging my bat back like I'm the worst player on the planet. And Bobby Cox goes, man, that guy's really good today, Rossi. And it was like one of those, like, changing the mindset, like, how your manager can, like, make you see stuff a little bit different. But you're right when. When, like, we're all out there competing. And the thing I like about our 15 and 16 team, we didn't beat ourselves. Somebody may outpitch us every once in a while or they may get the big hit we didn't get. But I didn't never felt like we left there. And Boston was like that a lot. Like, we never left there thinking, man, we gave that one away. Nine times out of ten, that team just happened to get. It was their day.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I think that's a credit to Joe. Honestly, in Joe's mindset, for us young guys, like, do simple better. That was his first thing he said, like, just make the routine play. He didn't care if we messed up. If it was mental defensively, he would. He would get mad. But then he let everyone be himself. Yeah. So you have your manager kind of doing that and trickling down to these young position players that, like, you're already established. I'm pretty much established. You just won the Cy Young. You're well in your career. But these young guys, all these young guys, like, Joe, let me be me for that group. Javi be Javi. KB Blossom playing the utility, having Zober. So it was like, we did simple better, and that made us better.

[David Ross]

And you noticed the evolution of Joe. You had him in Anaheim when you.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[David Ross]

Like, and see how his journey went and the things he's learned and evolved, like, it's. It's. You look back on some things, man, it's like, it was a. It was a. It was a special time, dude.

[Jake Arrieta]

Seen some baseball.

[David Ross]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Lackey]

You know, we also did really well, too, and Joe kind of established this. But the older veteran players, we made the young guys as comfortable as possible.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Absolutely.

[John Lackey]

From day one, you know, the old school veteran, kind of like, you got to earn your stripes. Like, don't.

[Jake Arrieta]

You can't.

[John Lackey]

Shouldn't be in the training room, all the. All that crap. No. Like, I need KB and Schwarber and Wilson and Javi. I need them to be comfortable and as prepared as possible, because that helps us, it helps me, it helps you, it helps our team win baseball games.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I feel like it takes one bad egg, too, to ruin that. And like, bro, you got called up in 02. Same with you. You guys. I know for a fact you guys were getting absolutely annihilated as probably rookies and.

[John Lackey]

Or.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Or at some point where you.

[David Ross]

I definitely had a veteran I hated.

[John Lackey]

Right.

[David Ross]

Want to kill that?

[John Lackey]

Well, it's not to say there weren't. There were great ones, too.

[Jake Arrieta]

Totally.

[David Ross]

No doubt.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Lack was the old. You were probably the oldest on the team. Right. And you were the nicest. Honestly, like, you. You were able to talk to guys, so. I was. Professionally.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. Yeah. His look.

[David Ross]

His is way more gray, more miles on that body.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But the Professionalism that you demanded was in a way of like, I almost feel like encouragement. Like, yeah, you got pissed off at guys and at times, like, it's stressful playing, but it's because you're demanding the best out of us.

[David Ross]

My thing I love the most. And this is like, if I can sum up John Lackey in one sentence of the example you said is like, I didn't come here for the haircut. Right. Like, that's an iconic moment in 16. That's like, what are your expectations? You know? And you got a verbatim. It's like, I came here for jewelry. You know, what is it? What it is?

[Anthony Rizzo]

I don't know. I don't think I wrote it.

[David Ross]

I didn't come here for the haircut. I came here for jewelry.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right.

[David Ross]

Like, you know, I mean, and, and, and. But like the simple. You said earlier, like, his simple formula of like, I'm gonna go out here, I'm gonna give my all and I'm gonna try to, you know, I'm gonna. All these guys, here I come.

[John Lackey]

And everybody in the room knew that.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

You know, it was kind of a smart ass response really. To a reporter.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The reporter asked you what were your expectations?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, I mean. Yeah, well, the hell you think? We go, we're trying to win the whole damn thing.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But like, hearing that though, from your, your Bulls.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

As a young guy is like, dude, another shot of confidence that is leading to this.

[John Lackey]

That's a great point because instead of just trying to stay in the big leagues, like, no, we're trying to. I'm trying to be an All Star. I'm trying to be a World Series champion.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

And that kind of elevates your confidence a little bit, you know, and setting

[David Ross]

those goals, you don't like, relax when you get to the postseason, like, oh, we made it in. Or we made it to the DS or whatever. Like, no, no, no. We. We saw last year, like what it in 15What it took to get to the championship series and got swept. It's like, no, no, we, we're going, we won't go to the dance. And like, that's just a product of experience and being around. But you got that at such a young age. And like the veterans that carry that confidence and pass it around and speak it and is real. And I think it just, it. It bleeds into young guys and gives them, gives them more confidence and along with letting them feel comfortable.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. I like in 16, thinking about when we knew we were really good, which we knew from the get go. But I always go to your first start in Arizona, and you gave up six in, like, I think three innings. And we. The. On the offensive side, we're like, it doesn't matter. And we ended up boat racing them. You ended up going six innings, which is, like, unheard of nowadays.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, I think the. The who was our. Our PR guy. I think it's the most runs.

[David Ross]

Peter Chase.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

Most runs I ever gave up my career and still won.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Really?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Schwarber went down that game, though.

[David Ross]

Yeah, that's right.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And like that right there was the start of our start to that season, really. It was our third or fourth game. But I look at that game from an offensive standpoint and just from a team standpoint. No one flinched. Yeah. And like, at all. It was your first start for us.

[Jake Arrieta]

Our lineup was deep.

[David Ross]

We were deep.

[John Lackey]

We're never out of it.

[David Ross]

My favorite got another lackey line, which is why we're doing them all. Because I feel like this guy. They just come is like, Rossi Never lost with 12 and airtight defense ever.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

You love.

[Jake Arrieta]

I handle the rest.

[David Ross]

Yeah, I'll handle it all. You guys give me 12 runs and airtight defense. I've got you.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I promise. Think we were good as far as, like, really believing, like, that group.

[John Lackey]

I mean, for me, it was in the off season of after 15.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Knowing the guys that we have coming in, the young players that are. That had been there and the ones that are right behind them. Right, right then.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Still got, like, on paper, yes. But we had, you know, I won the cy young in 15. Like, I knew things were continuing to move forward in the right direction. I knew the young players that were coming, coming up through the system. It's like, this is. This is our chance.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You know, the camaraderie was like, I tell us all the time, Lester set the tone when in 15. I feel like he came in with a big contract and he was so generous for all of his boss cowboy boots, all the team dinners. And then you get there and it's like. I remember. I think it was in St. Louis or we were somewhere early and he went to pay for the bill. But you already pro move. Gave it to the hostess when we walked in.

[Jake Arrieta]

Go sneak.

[John Lackey]

You have to do that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

And that's.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But that was the first time I had seen that done, and I was like, all right, lock. And then like, our team dinners were the team dinners, because it was like, we knew that it was going to be this.

[Jake Arrieta]

We had some good ones, didn't yeah,

[John Lackey]

like we didn't have to pay for many team dinners. I didn't pay.

[David Ross]

I'm still riding these guys coattails.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, well, like that's.

[Jake Arrieta]

I think me and Lester just went every other one for a while. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Literally they would be. You guys would be fighting at times over who's paying for this. Probably eight to ten.

[David Ross]

But you, but you were brought up that way.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's what it was. Yeah, it was not a big deal.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

You've got three rings, I think about 16. And can you look back on the championship teams you've been on and like what stands out that's similar in each

[Anthony Rizzo]

one

[Jake Arrieta]

of like the locker rooms. The way we got along off the field. Like, like the team dinners. Like, like Boston, we had 22 man team dinners just like we had had in Chicago. Anaheim, like we had. We only had a couple rookies there. That was back when the game was a little different, you know, it was more veterans and a couple rookies. Right. But they, they took care of us. Like, man, I didn't, I didn't pay for a friggin lunch. My, my whole rookie year. It'd be like, kid, be downstairs in 15, you know, like just, just pros.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The hotel phone.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, yeah, it really was the hotel phone.

[Jake Arrieta]

Exactly.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

But knocking on his door rather than texting.

[Jake Arrieta]

No, I'm old. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Well, you know what really helps too, the camaraderie and chemistry is getting to know your teammates. Significant. Significant other or girlfriend 100 or kids.

[David Ross]

Right.

[John Lackey]

Like when we walk in the clubhouse, it's like, how's Emily? Or whatever, what's up with Christina and, and the kids? Like that. It's like, this guy cares.

[David Ross]

You're pulling for a guy on a personal level in the fight because you've hung out with him, you've got drunk with him, you've guys partied all night. Or we, you know, we went to a charity event that somebody was having and you just got to know. I, I think that's the, the little secret of like, no, I'm acting, this guy's a bat. Because I care about it. Yes. Yeah. And we care. Like we, everybody cared about each other on that team.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When you're doing that on a personal level, like you said, that's when you win my opinion. Because there's a lot of teammates that are just teammates that you know. And it's really hard throughout my, my career, all our careers. Like, how many guys do you really stay in touch with now that you're done playing? Probably small. Like I, I Cannot talk to you guys for five years. As soon as we see each other, it's picking back, right?

[John Lackey]

Yeah, right back.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Because of that bond that we. That we put together. Yeah. And our investment in each other and even.

[John Lackey]

Obviously, a lot of us were much closer than some others, which is normal.

[Jake Arrieta]

Natural.

[John Lackey]

We all have different backgrounds. We're not gonna be best friends and get along all the time, but that's one of my guys.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

I don't. I don't. It doesn't.

[David Ross]

For life.

[John Lackey]

Doesn't matter if we. We view things differently. We were from different continents or countries. Like, we're. We're in this together.

[David Ross]

Yep.

[John Lackey]

You know?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Let's get into your guys' no hitter. Cincy, right? Cincy bucket list.

[David Ross]

You gave me a bucket list, bro. That was.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, you guys are. You guys are wearing the matching. Matching watches.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. Check the watches. Let's go.

[David Ross]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that.

[John Lackey]

I saw that. He had it on, so I. I had to pull it out.

[David Ross]

IWC right here. Pretty pricey. Areatta, hook me up with this. First of all, the watch is amazing, but, like, to play for as long as I got to play mostly a backup and be in. I'd get to catch a no hitter. I was so nervous. We got. The game was like 15 nothing. 16, 16 nothing.

[John Lackey]

It was a beat down.

[David Ross]

It's a weird game since the sixth inning. I'm stressed about we got no hitters. I'm like, don't this up, Rossi.

[Jake Arrieta]

You know?

[David Ross]

And I distinctly remember, like, going to a lot of cutters and off speed stuff, and you shaking like, no, I'm pumping heaters. I'm pumping. He was like, the sixth and seventh inning, like, I'm bringing heaters. I'm bringing heaters, and guys are rolling them over and popping them up, and I'm just like. Like, I felt like. It's funny. I've always pictured a no hitter as this pride thing that I call this amazing game. And I felt like he held my hand like, no, no, I've already got one of these. Come with me, big boy. Because I had to watch a lot of people. Remember Lester, My. My wife had at the time, had a emergency C section. I flew home. I wasn't in LA for the one Miggy caught that you threw there. And I was watching it on my phone, and as my, you know.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Daughter.

[David Ross]

Daughter. Yeah. But she was like a pound and a half in this incubator. And I'm like, watching this and you're out there carving in LA and then getting to experience that was when it

[John Lackey]

was a much different game than. Than LA. Obviously we won 16 nothing. It didn't. I mean, it felt like a no hitter as it progressed into the past the 6th. But my stuff wasn't tremendous that night. LA, it was like video game, wherever I wanted. It didn't matter. In Cincinnati, it was like Sunday night baseball, big games, but. So it was April 21, you know, in Cincinnati, and it was just. The stuff was moving like crazy, but I couldn't command it that well. So I knew that I'm just gonna throw this sinker in the zone, try and try and elevate it a bit. And I think I had five punch

[David Ross]

outs that I remember moving.

[John Lackey]

Wasn't a lot of punch outs. It was just weak contact, miss hitting the ball, missing barrels, and. And it happened, dude. Crazy. Well. And, you know, it's. I was always told and how long this has been a thing. Forever, right? It's like you don't know. Hitter.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You buy. You buy the catcher.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Yeah. It's engraved on the back with the date, the score, bro. It's like, so. So it's like, this is my. When I dress up, this is the one I wear. And I've got.

[John Lackey]

I'm glad you're wearing it, man.

[David Ross]

Lester. Oh, I brought it for this. Lester gave me a Rolex for his 200th win. And I guess I'd caught the most. Is like, I wear. Those are the two watches I wear. It's like this one when I dress up. And his is kind of my.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, you love free.

[David Ross]

I'm talking about free dinners. I get free jewelry, two rings.

[John Lackey]

It's way different style. Like, this is kind of our style, right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lackey]

The one that I bought, Miggy, was a breitling with a bunch of diamonds and around. It was perfect.

[David Ross]

I gotta get a little Latino flair, too.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

He's got a little style, too, but that was a.

[David Ross]

That was a. I remember hugging you and telling you thank you at all that. And you were like, that's a huge

[Anthony Rizzo]

deal as a catcher, bro.

[David Ross]

Bro.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I obviously as a pitcher, too, but.

[John Lackey]

Well, the, the, the, the preparation that the, the catchers go through is probably more. I don't want to say more than anybody else, but just watching the catching core and the catching coaches go through a video and break down scouting reports, it makes our job so much easier

[Anthony Rizzo]

that I, I have said this for years, and I did this my career. I studied catchers a lot of times more than pitchers. I knew what you guys were throwing, but, like, With Yachty. With you, it's different because you're a veteran, but with Yachty Molina catching, there's no young guy shaking him. Yachty's calling the game. So if you did shake, nobody shook. If you did shake, I had to in my, in the box real quick, start programming like, okay. Oh, this is rare, right? Waynewright never really shook Yachty. If it was too quick shakes. It was. I knew Yachty was calling the, the fake shake.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So, like, studying catchers was a huge, huge part. Because, bro, if you guys don't have

[Jake Arrieta]

it that game, that's good.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Who's going to help maneuver you through that game? Him. What's the pitching coach in a con say? Hey, you're doing.

[John Lackey]

No, it's that guy.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's the. Yeah.

[David Ross]

And that's my favorite. That was my favorite part of the game was the. We had a moment in Game 6, the World Series, where we clinched in Boston, where I threw a. It was a 2, 2 breaking ball that got by me, and I think we were only up a couple runs. The guy went to second and there's two outs. And I went to the mouse. Hey, my bad. And he's like, no big deal. Just gave it a minute, went back and called heater because I was like, he's not gonna trust me to block this ball. And he was like, nope. Threw down a breaking ball. He's like, yep. Threw another one in the dirt. I block it, punch the guy out, we get out of it. And I, I, I credit. I told him after that, I was like, bro, I'm so glad you shook to that. That gave me confidence in myself, and he had the confidence to trust me to do that. Like, that's the stuff that, that off the field stuff we're talking about and going to bars and to dinners and talking about.

[John Lackey]

And we also.

[David Ross]

My guy.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

I knew how much effort and time you put into the game.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, that's my favorite part.

[John Lackey]

Right. Like, if I give up a homer, you're not pissed at me. You're just pissed that it happened.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Right. I talk about the Lester relationship and what we had was like, bro, that was my brother. Like, when he sucked, I sucked. You know, we're in this together, you know, so you're. You love your brother, but you get mad at your brother and do those. You're. You're pushing your brother to be great because it makes me great. Like, I. His success is my success.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

You know, that's, that's how I took that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That's quick. No, Hitter story. Alec Mills, years later threw a no hitter to Victor.

[David Ross]

I managed that. I remember.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And I'm giving Caratini, like, bro, Mills is on a rookie deal. Like, you're gonna get a Fossil watch. So like literally a week later, I ordered a F watch and I took like the printer label and I just put no hitter. And I labeled the back of the watch and I put it in Karatini's locker.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's great. That's a great.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I loved it.

[John Lackey]

It's kind of a tough spot to be in though. You know, honestly, looking back now, got to do it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I should have bought the watches from so. But it's a pitcher catcher thing.

[David Ross]

But I think the Cubs gave us something after your no hitter first one, right? That NOLA watch.

[John Lackey]

Well, they. They gave one to the entire team. They gave me a Cartier one year and then a. A Carl Bucher watch.

[David Ross]

I got.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I got a couple.

[David Ross]

One of my favorite. I got two things that are hanging in my house. Everything else is like in my garage in my kind of man room. But I've got my 100 home run jersey that they gave me and then they gave us. You've got the rubber from the. From the no hitter. I've got the plate frame and it's. It's like, what a cool thing to have. It's got all the spike marks from people got up on the wall. Yeah. Hell yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Anything. I gave the ball back. You gave it back.

[Jake Arrieta]

Should have kept it and sold it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Let's go back to our locker room. Do you. I want to kind of paint the picture. Where were you at? You were. You were right next to them too.

[John Lackey]

So you walk. You walk through the tunnel, right? Like you're coming back from the game. Yeah, it's just directly on the other side.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Lester Lackey areata. Is that right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. And in between them, in between them, though, is an empty locker with a beer fridge.

[John Lackey]

Yes.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's a nice size fridge. Yeah, it's the bar. It's basically the team bar. Like, yeah, it was fun with all that. After the game, you guys, we have drinks or after your start, you see you guys having a beer and whatnot. But I feel like the significance of that to like show young guys that like you can lock in and do all this hard work, but it's also okay to just relax and enjoy life a little bit too.

[Jake Arrieta]

100. That was one of the things that I wanted to have fun too off the field, like. And I. One of my favorite things to do is take out young guys. You know, we hang out at the hotel bar, maybe shut it down a little bit, and I try to be the first one there. Like, I'd want to be sweating. And, yeah, when they walked in, just let them know, hey, we're gonna do it on both sides here. We have fun last night, but it's time to grind now.

[John Lackey]

Well, what's the quote? You got to earn your party.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. You do got to earn your party. I had an old vet.

[David Ross]

That's leadership, bro.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. If you're gonna stay up with hoop with the eyes, you got to get up and soar the Eagles.

[David Ross]

That's right.

[Jake Arrieta]

An old vet told me that.

[David Ross]

Well, and that's the stuff that you're talking about. This is what I. I think, like, this thing that I kind of talk about a lot is accountability. You're holding yourself accountable by saying, I'm going to be the first there because I was out. I was partying as hard as everybody else in that room. I'm going to be the first one there sweating. So when they walk in, they're like, I had that with dlo. Dlo would.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Would.

[David Ross]

Would run it hard. And you know what? 6:00am he's out there doing stadiums. I'm like, what the hell? In spring training, you know, like, that's the accountability that I feel like that's a good leadership example from. From veterans that goes unnoticed a lot of times.

[John Lackey]

Well, because if you. If you partake in some of the fun and you don't show up and do your work, you lose the trust.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. You have your. Of your team.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, the thing is, when you do it together, you show up because you know you have to.

[Jake Arrieta]

Right, Right.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You saw me at. Saw me.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You know, whatever I was doing.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Or we were up till four at the.

[John Lackey]

the.

[Anthony Rizzo]

In the hotel. And it's like. Like, like, these are my guys. You guys may not be playing, but I am. And I. I can't be doing that. And.

[Jake Arrieta]

Right.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Not gaining your respect by not showing.

[John Lackey]

I don't know if there's a team that I had more fun on, to be honest.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, bro, like, let's talk about our trips we did in season. Oh, man. These are the.

[Jake Arrieta]

The Pebble Beach.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Pebble Beach. Kenny Chesney.

[John Lackey]

Kenny Chesney.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Pebble beach to Kenny Chesney. That was like, we're on vacation while playing.

[David Ross]

We landed. We had an off day on Thursday in Oakland. We're going to play the A's, and we had a Wednesday day game. Flew. I'm gonna spend the off day on the west Coast. When we landed in Oakland, Lester had a private plane that flew us to Pebble Beach. We all had our own room at Pebble. Partial suite, partial view.

[John Lackey]

He loves it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

He loves busting his bar, play golf

[David Ross]

all day, get back on the PJ win. Friday Day Game Saturday 1 Saturday party bus to the john, the 49ers football stadium. Kenny Chesney backstage hanging out.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Kenny Chesney, Sammy Hagar. Sammy Hagar.

[David Ross]

Old Dominion was there. I remember, like, have a party, go back, beat the out of Oakland again and head on, head on back home. It was like one of the best trips I think we've ever been on. We got some good photos.

[Jake Arrieta]

Awesome.

[David Ross]

Like that. That's. That's one thing I'll say about Lester, like doing some of those things as a veteran with the perks and the contract and the whole things like he and Joe led us, but like having that fun.

[Jake Arrieta]

He's pro.

[David Ross]

Yeah, he's pro.

[John Lackey]

Well, those are opportunities. You can't go back and do it again, you know, like. And that Lester was you too. Like, we're going to take advantage of this opportunity.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, you were.

[David Ross]

We played Houston. You couldn't go because you had a pitch. But we went to tcu, watched the football game.

[Jake Arrieta]

Remember that?

[John Lackey]

With the PJ over guys on tv. That was awesome.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It was all. Well, it broke up the season of like, we grind. We got regrind, but it's like, all right, what kind of fun we gonna have too? Yeah, right. And it was like that fun made playing fun because the playing fun made the night more fun. Right? And it was like, you win, you can keep doing that. As soon as you start losing, you could still do it, but it's a lot harder to feel good about what you're doing because we're so focused on winning.

[David Ross]

Winning cures all for sure.

[Jake Arrieta]

It does. 100. Yeah.

[David Ross]

I'm sure we had a lot of up off the field fun in 16. Like, I remember vividly and it was my last year knowing I'm retiring, but playing with Dempster in Boston his last year and watching him experience fun. They going and doing things in cities, taking advantage of moments like you, you that would. You were an outdoor guy. Like, you would get up and go on walks in cities and do the. Every day, every day. Like, those things made my end of my career a lot more fun with winning. And also like going to New York and I took some of the media guys on a helicopter tour and like doing the rocky steps and Going to get Philly. Philly's cheesesteaks in the middle of the night in Philadelphia. You know, just little stuff like that. And I don't. I wish I would have done that more in my career. But the fact that I, I recognize that later and I, and, and you're a lot of pressure early on as a person. But yeah, trying to establish yourself.

[John Lackey]

I always told young guys this. It's like, how many times are you going to go to Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna. Just probably not going on vacation to Milwaukee anytime soon. No, but experience the city. Get. Get up. I mean, I'm not telling you to get four hours of sleep and get up and go walk around town and go play golf. But see what, See what?

[Anthony Rizzo]

See what it's all about.

[David Ross]

You would go down in Pittsburgh. You go to like, he would come back with these juices and I'm like, where'd you find that?

[John Lackey]

And I'm like, everywhere.

[David Ross]

He's like, bro, I'd go walking here and I found this spot like you just like, that was.

[John Lackey]

Well, because I'm not going, probably not going to Pittsburgh, you know.

[David Ross]

Yeah, right.

[John Lackey]

But I love Pittsburgh. I enjoyed Cincinnati. Milwaukee was cool, you know, And Kansas City, whatever the city is, like, find your little spots. Right, right. Instead of sleeping until 1:30 and going to the field, like, figure out some things to do.

[David Ross]

Sure.

[John Lackey]

You know, sure.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Let's. Let's get rolling into the playoffs here and see we clinch in like August. Right. We still roll. We clinch. Early September.

[David Ross]

We clinch. I've got a story actually, about the beer fridge.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yes.

[David Ross]

And the. I remember we clinched and the next day a lot of those guys were. It was like soon after we had clinched and we had some of the rookies up in September, we're playing Milwaukee. We're in extra innings. And do you remember when I came in and car washed the locker room? It was, it was Lester. They're all at the beer fridge. It was Lester Sutcliffe, Lackey, Arietta. And I'm going around. I'm, I'm fuming because nobody's on the bench. I'm looking around, I'm not playing. Nobody's on the bench.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We had a great bench in 2016.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The bench was the best part of our team.

[David Ross]

Yeah. And like, nobody to celebrate with. These guys have been playing all the time, are back in the grind. And I walk in and I'm like scanning and I'm getting madder as I scan. I was like, I can't yell at him. I can't yell at him. Can't yell at him. And the next guy on my list was Rob Z. I was like, rob Z, you rookie fuck, get your ass out here and cheer the boys on. He's like, I was like, car washing the whole. The whole locker room, and all the boys came out. You guys got the picture. But it's like one of those, like, supporting your teammates and all that, Me having my. One of my Grandpa Rossi angry moments. But all you guys came out, and we end up winning.

[Jake Arrieta]

That it was right. You guys be out there to support these guys.

[David Ross]

I'll just support your ass. Cliff still tells me. I was like, bro, I remember you coming. I was scared of that. I was like, well, I was scanning the room of who I could yell at, and the first guy came to was Rob Zombie. It was great.

[John Lackey]

You did the right thing. Yeah.

[David Ross]

They were all throwing pop down. We're like the 11th.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's like, position player. It's hard. Like, you come on the bench, you're grinding. It's July, August, and no one's out there. And you're like, yeah, yeah. These guys like, oh, it must be nice. Go throw your four, five, six, seven innings and.

[John Lackey]

Or eight or nine.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Eight or nine, Right. Well, the later in my career, it got shorter, but it's like, it must be nice, like, and we're out here grinding. But then when the team is on

[David Ross]

the bench, it's like, yeah, Advent support's underrated, man. The guys panic. We were talking a little bit about guys on iPads and all that stuff earlier. It's like the guys paying attention on the bench is so valuable and rooting those guys on. I think it's just like one of those. Another, you know, thing that it goes. Goes unrelated, but let's get to the playoffs.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, we roll. We were rolling, right?

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And from my. My advantage is like, damn, we got. We got the Giants the first round. Like, they're on their even year, right? 10, 12, 14.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Now it's 16. Like, we're rolling through them. We go. Game one, was it. I believe it's Lester.

[David Ross]

Lester, because you pitched Game 3 and hit the home run off Bum Gardner, Right? You pitched game two. Yeah, I. I've got it here. Game two. I think it's like a little.

[John Lackey]

A little fuzzy.

[David Ross]

Seven innings, two runs. Yeah, yeah. Glasses, we won. We won that game. But you. You seven. Yep.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Seven and two. Shocker.

[Jake Arrieta]

Remember that?

[Anthony Rizzo]

But that first game at Wrigley, right? Like, setting the tone for us. A lot of I feel a lot of pressure, bro.

[David Ross]

Like, yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

108 years. We're rolling. We lose the year before.

[John Lackey]

Right.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Clinch really early. I think we won nothing. Right on the Javi.

[David Ross]

Best team in Asia.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Mammoth homer that lands in the back.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. That was the only thing I was worried about was that what we had at that time, like, we had so much time in between clinching and playing. That was the only. But I think Joe did a good job. We did some scrimmages, you know, did some stuff like that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Scrimmages. Let's get back to the scrimmage.

[John Lackey]

Oh, yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I was so bad off. John Lackey.

[Jake Arrieta]

I owned you in those things.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So bad in my career that we're getting. We're scrimmaging.

[Jake Arrieta]

Lock you in.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I know we're scrimmaging before the game. He feels so bad for me. He. Honestly, I was like a make a wish kid in this game. He's like, riz, here, I'm gonna throw you a fastball down the middle, telling me what's coming. And I still could not even touch the ball. Oh, I think I popped it up.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, I don't know about that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But you did lock me in. Yeah, eventually.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. You guys were killing it.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We. We go, and one thing that sticks out is your home run off. That was game three, bro. We put us up three. Nothing so good.

[Jake Arrieta]

The boys went, bro, bomb.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Greatest.

[David Ross]

Oh, bum guard.

[John Lackey]

It was a laser.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The greatest postseason pitchers of all time.

[Jake Arrieta]

Don't sleep on his bp. He's got sick. Pop.

[David Ross]

Crazy pop.

[Jake Arrieta]

I was.

[John Lackey]

I was telling David before we got in here, hitting BP in Wrigley Field, and maybe it was monotonous to you because you're doing it every day. It was the most fun I had playing baseball, I think.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And Boz, especially those when those wind. The wind was blowing and wind was blowing out.

[John Lackey]

We're trying to hit him over the street.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

But Boz was awesome, too. He. You know, I feel like some pitching coaches would be like, just stop trying to hit over the fence. Get your work in. He wanted to see how far we.

[Jake Arrieta]

He encouraged it. He was fun with it.

[John Lackey]

He wanted to see there would be

[Anthony Rizzo]

times where we're waiting to hit because they're just launching balls. All right, guys, get off. They're having so much fun. Like, we're stretching next to them.

[John Lackey]

You guys liked it?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. I wasn't launching nothing. I was old and sometimes didn't even hit because I was sore. I'm gonna chill today.

[John Lackey]

Hendrix is hitting little loopers over seconds. I Get out of here.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, it was really, yeah. When Lester would really let it loose and you were always letting the.

[John Lackey]

Lester had juice.

[David Ross]

Yeah. He could hit the game, but he had a great, he got to where, he got to where he was pretty good though. He got better.

[Jake Arrieta]

Ye. Actually worked on it. It was, it was pretty good.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And yeah, but that home.

[John Lackey]

No, man. Well, so I, I, I tell the story a lot. I don't remember the exact count, but he, he was pitching me in like up and in. And I just happened to, I'm like, he's coming up and in again.

[Jake Arrieta]

Like heaters or was like heaters. Heaters.

[David Ross]

Sold out for the angle. It's like.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, just sold out for the heater, man. And your reaction in the dugout, bro, maybe my favorite part. And I, I'm going around first base and I, I hit Hyder's hand because it was kind of a line, line shot. So I'm getting out of the box. I never knew how to pimp a home run. I didn't hit that many. But I wish, I wish I could have, you know, I wish I could

[Jake Arrieta]

have the time to do it.

[John Lackey]

Just stood there for a second and take a look and then go. But Hyder hits my hand and almost spins me around and almost fall down. But then I kind of see you a little bit out of the corner of my eye and a Cubs fan actually caught it. Like the only Cubs fan that's sitting in that entire section.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So that was pretty cool.

[Jake Arrieta]

And get the ball.

[John Lackey]

No, no. I mean, I probably wouldn't have given it up if I was him either.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

My story I tell is the, the old guy that's always worrying when you hit that ball our dugout. You would have thought we won the World Series at that point.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We did. We were on our way.

[David Ross]

They were, they were going ape up and down. I'm like, oh, God, come on, keep grinding, keep grinding, boy. Cuz it was like the third, fourth inning early.

[John Lackey]

It was second.

[David Ross]

Okay.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It was second day.

[John Lackey]

It was my first day homer, bro.

[David Ross]

The dugout was like so excited and like the old school version of me was just going like, look, everybody calm down, stay focused. Shut up, shut up. Yeah, but it was.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, you were right. We lost the game.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, we did.

[Anthony Rizzo]

In extras well.

[David Ross]

And also usually was right.

[John Lackey]

I think the coolest part about it. So, so Bum Garner at the time hadn't given up a run in the playoffs and bro, he was.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

Like six years or something. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You couldn't believe it. I mean, I couldn't really?

[Anthony Rizzo]

No one could.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Yeah, bro. That was loud, bro.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That team knew how to win, bro. They were three time World Series champions on that team. Like, they were battle tested.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Like, the fact that we won in game four was, like, to come back, the only weakness on that team was their bowl pen. And we exposed it. Thank God, because we had quao. And we're good waiting in game five. If we had to go to game five, which who knows on that, but that series set the tone. Then we got to go play the Dodgers, who are always good.

[John Lackey]

The home run that Javi hit, was it off. Cuido off.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Quo. He pimped the.

[John Lackey]

Out of it in the basket.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Landed in the basket because.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yes.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

It barely went out.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Barely went out. We won one. Nothing.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, like.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Like, it's just like. But that's what our team was like. I felt like our team was always. We had so much character and, like, swagger, like, but we never disrespected the other team.

[John Lackey]

No.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Which is like.

[David Ross]

I feel like our dugout was like a softball team. We had, like, chance and cheers and, like, we talked about the hitters. Like, remember when you get to three, two, be like, positivity on a base. On a base, on a base, on a base. Like, send good vibes, boys. Yeah, good vibes.

[Jake Arrieta]

Well, so we.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We beat the Dodgers and clinching. It's our first time going to the World Series.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Your guys is second. You're third. Like, where are you at emotionally? Like, on all of it? Well, so we're invested more, I feel like, in the Cubs being here for longer.

[John Lackey]

But I. I think that because of the games that I had pitched previous, it didn't matter that it was a World Series to me. I mean, it did in the sense of 108 years, everything that's on the line. But for me, it's like, I'm ready for this moment. It's just another game for me, you know? And Hendrix pitched that game against Kershaw, right?

[David Ross]

Oh, yeah.

[John Lackey]

Game six.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Game six.

[John Lackey]

I was supposed to pitch game seven. And just being able to celebrate and not having to play because then I knew that I got. I would get to pitch because Lester was going to go game one one. I was game two. So not having to play that seventh game was huge for us, I think.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Especially in your own individual journey.

[John Lackey]

Well, sure.

[David Ross]

And focused. And then all of a sudden, we win.

[John Lackey]

Right? Well. And just. I mean, the euphoria after winning that game was just insane.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And did you guys feel that? Did you, like. Because the Wrigley euphoria. Because for me, it was like, I was a little annoyed after just personally, like, the Cubs fans were celebrating, like, we won the World Series. And I was like. In my head, I was like, we didn't do.

[John Lackey]

Sure, but you can see why.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Totally.

[John Lackey]

Just getting totally.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I'm saying after like, looking back a little bit, I was right.

[David Ross]

I remember in the moment one of my goals, knowing it was my last year and the fact we were going to the World Series, I thought that was one step above where we went the year before. So that's a bet. Like, you just keep stacking levels, right? Climbing the ladder. And I felt like the year before we lost in this championship series. So going to the World Series to me was like, oh, it's gravy now.

[John Lackey]

Like, well, also, hey, think about from.

[David Ross]

That was my personal view.

[John Lackey]

From a fan's perspective, getting past the Dodgers and then going to play Cleveland. No disrespect to Cleveland, Kershaw, but beating them was probably more of a challenge than having to beat Cleveland, which you're thinking now turned out to be more difficult.

[David Ross]

Giants and Dodgers, right? They're both like, the road to that

[Anthony Rizzo]

Pettit was not easy.

[John Lackey]

No, not at all.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And then, yeah, I'm going to go west coast multiple times, too.

[David Ross]

It was just.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, that. That. That's another factor that doesn't get really talked about at all. But then we. We run. Where are you at in that? Like, you don't want to finish second, bro. You two time.

[Jake Arrieta]

No, I mean, like. Like he said, like, we both had a point in our career. I was trying to enjoy everything a little bit more. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't. I knew I had at least one more year, but I knew you're getting towards the end of it, and, you know, you got your family, got kids involved, like, just. It's. It was awesome to, you know, to share those sort of things. It was. It was cool.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Perspective was.

[Jake Arrieta]

I mean, that's my perspective is when

[Anthony Rizzo]

I went with the Yankees in 24, it was like, I told my parents that year, told Emily even later, I was like, enjoy this. Like, I don't know what's going on. It's like, let's really enjoy this run. Yeah, we go to the world, who's gonna win?

[David Ross]

But, like, it's nice to get to that space in your career well, too. You played long enough where you can. Like, you're not stressed by anything. Like, we're just trying to win. But like, hey, let's. Let's take this all in.

[John Lackey]

How many great players played for 10 plus years, never played in the postseason a lot.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I know it's crazy.

[John Lackey]

So like it, you know, like you might 100, like as good as we were, you know, 15. It's like even though the trajectory, like John was saying, looked like we were going to go past that, you never know when you're going to get back, right? So like not being complacent but also still allowing yourself to enjoy it and have some fun.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We did the. The parties at LER D. My dad playing the guitar with Eddie Vetter. Like core memory.

[Jake Arrieta]

How's that?

[Anthony Rizzo]

All in his backyard, just partying like, right. It's just like all the families were there, just so happy.

[David Ross]

And that moment, the story I tell is, cuz I was sitting with your dad and I was showing. Remember he got me the harmonica for a retirement gift. So I'm showing him the chords I learned and was kind of playing this thing for Riz's dad. And then Eddie walks in and grabs a guitar for me and starts playing. I'm like, I opened for Eddie better that night.

[Anthony Rizzo]

For free.

[Jake Arrieta]

For free.

[David Ross]

Get any freaking.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But those are like throw. That's. That's the best part about the run was the after celebrations on winning and the parties after we went to country club, I think.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, a lot.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We're at Lester's backyard then obviously the big celebration, but we're.

[David Ross]

Lester did a good job. And this is like side note, but Lester did a good job like David did. Every time we won, he would throw a party and everybody's invited. It doesn't matter. We're going to bring food where you have alcohol. We've got everybody's safety, like cars. Like David Ortiz did that in Boston. And it was like such a. Like a cool thing. Like I'm bringing, you know, friends and family to David Ortiz's house and he's showing them their silver slogans. Like Lester was like that everybody's invited. We're going.

[John Lackey]

We have Chicago PD out. Yeah, you need a ride home.

[Jake Arrieta]

Just like what we talked about, like passing things down. He learned that from day, right? And he nailed it. We had a great time.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When we go down three, one. What. What. What gave you any belief, if anything at all, that we can do that, man? Just come back.

[Jake Arrieta]

We were good, man. We had. We had. I knew we had enough. Enough firepower and we had. And we had dudes that could. That were coming up pitching that, that had been there and done it. And at that point, you can't you just can't look too far ahead. You got to win the next one, just win the next one, get to the next game, and we just. All we had to do is just win the next one and then see what happens after that.

[David Ross]

In the moment, you said, after the game, I actually got a quote because you're starting to go, well, game four. And you said, everything's fine. When? Tomorrow. Yeah, everything's fine. When? Tomorrow. Right. And that's the veteran. Like, when you have this. Like, he's not wallowing on his. Like, doesn't matter what I did. That's over.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Here we go. On to the next.

[John Lackey]

Well, because then we had Lester, myself, and Hendrix.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right.

[John Lackey]

We were lined up if we won

[Anthony Rizzo]

game five, because it was.

[David Ross]

That was my favorite game.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Game five for me, was our hardest one because I knew we would roll in Game six versus Timlin. Right.

[David Ross]

Yep.

[Anthony Rizzo]

He shoved against us, but it was Tomlin. Sorry. He shoved against us, but we didn't really. We hadn't seen him before, so, like, it was easier to register he wasn't an overpowering dude. Exactly. Compared to Kluber. And it was like, all right. And then we see Kluber for the third time. Like, yeah, I like our odds. Yeah. Right. But that game five was a gauntlet. I mean, we won three, two, one for me.

[John Lackey]

no point did it feel like we were down 3:1.

[David Ross]

No.

[John Lackey]

With the guys in the room, it. It felt. Well, I mean, maybe. Maybe for you. Sure.

[David Ross]

I was selfish because I. I knew I got to play game five. So I'm like, I can't wait to start a World Series game in Wrigley. That was my kind of incentive on the hitting side.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It was like. It was. It was a Ben Zobers bunt in the NLCS that kind of turned our entire offense around because we were grinding in, like, the DS into the. I didn't really get my. I don't think I got. I didn't get going in that playoffs until, like, the third or fourth game of the cs.

[David Ross]

Yeah, you started. You started Carry you. And Javi started carrying us in the cs.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Addie, too.

[David Ross]

And Addie. I mean. Yeah, Addie.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So we're, you know, hitting is so hot and cold, and it's like, we're down. We're down one nothing in the fourth inning of game five, and it's like Bowers on the mount. He's shoving. The wind's blowing in. And then KB hits that homer to tie it, and it was like, all right. Like, yeah. And we relax and Then we somehow. I think Chappie's. What it was an eight out save.

[Jake Arrieta]

He was there a while.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Seven or eight out save, and felt

[David Ross]

like he came in game early. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And then game six, you go out, set the tone. We roll quick.

[David Ross]

I feel like you shoved in the World Series, bro.

[Jake Arrieta]

Dude, that was.

[John Lackey]

Well, it was shot.

[David Ross]

For two years I played with you, but, like, cold.

[John Lackey]

Well, without that feeling Contrast from game two to six. Game two, I remember being, like, in the 30s or something.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Well, that's freezing.

[Jake Arrieta]

It was the game two.

[John Lackey]

Those are freezing. So for me, it was like, I just got to keep this hand warm.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

And I knew if I could do that, it'd be fine. Struggled with some grip issues a little bit. Then game six, it was like, 60 degrees.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You were two, and you had two wins, right? You register those two wins.

[John Lackey]

Yeah. But game two was rough.

[David Ross]

Game two, you were. You were good, but I remember you were erratic.

[John Lackey]

I think we have bases loaded at some point. I think it was. Tyler Naquin was at the plate, punched him out that once. I got through that, then we were all right. But I had a few walks. Was erratic, but when. When needed to make a big pitch, was able to.

[Jake Arrieta]

When it's cold, like I said, it's hard to feel the ball.

[John Lackey]

Hard to feel it. Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

A little control can be an issue.

[David Ross]

Yeah. You were cruising game six. It felt like you were in a rocking chair back, like, you know, when you were locked in.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Do you guys remember when. Again, it's not about me, but I hit the home run a little bit about you. A little bit late in the game, and Joe kept Chappie in for the 9th. And you. I remember the dugout was like, what the are we doing? Like, that's good. Travis winning the game. Get him up because Chappie was, like, gassed. Right. And we all knew it. I just remember the dugout, and it was like, that was the first time where the dugout kind of uproared like. Like, Joe, we got to get this guy out of here. Like, yeah, get b.

[David Ross]

Well, you hit your homer with two outs, and it, like, I think it sped up real quick. Sometimes, like, managing, you're like, oh, I wasn't expecting that.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, you got that perspective.

[David Ross]

It goes from four to six quick, and you're like, oh, I need to get somebody else up. There's two outs. Next guy rolls over. First pitch, you know, you're, like, kind of scrambling.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, we talk. We talked to Joe about that, and he was like, yeah, he, like, Looks back on that. Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

What did he say?

[Anthony Rizzo]

He was like. No, he was like. It was.

[Jake Arrieta]

It was fast.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You got to get to game seven, all this stuff, but he is. So how he maneuvered that, like, no one. Being the manager, in my opinion, is the hardest thing, because no one. Not everyone loves you.

[David Ross]

He's really accountable. But saying, like, we got to get to game seven kind of thing, and then, you know, obviously, like, Chappie out of gas and all that, like, he. He walked us through the whole. His thought process of what he was thinking, and then, you know, you pop that two out, two run, homer.

[Jake Arrieta]

It was kind of late. I mean, that could get pretty quick with two out. So what.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So we go to game seven. What's your. You're. I know. You were hot. Like.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You made yourself available.

[John Lackey]

Well, I went. Yeah. I went into Joe's office pretty early in the day and just wanted to make it known. Like, hey, I'm. I've been warming up. Feel fine. I'm down there. You know, you were down. I'm ready.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah. But I knew I was probably up extra inning kind of guy, you know,

[David Ross]

we walked me, you, and Lester, us three, and Lester walked down to the bullpen together in, like, the.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

Third. Whatever. And I remember. Do you guys remember that? I remember walking.

[Jake Arrieta]

Oh, yeah. We all went down there together.

[David Ross]

Yeah. Yeah. I was freaking. Like.

[Jake Arrieta]

I think I was just security for you guys to get.

[John Lackey]

Well, I felt.

[David Ross]

I felt like the. The guy. Because all you guys are so big. I'm, like, walking down there. Heart rate's going up. It's such a different view from the bullpen or being in the dugout when you're trying to, like, grind with the boys is just.

[John Lackey]

Well, at that point, too. It's the last game of the year.

[David Ross]

Like, I. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Whether I threw 100 the night before, it doesn't matter. Running off adrenaline. It's for.

[David Ross]

I'll give you what I got.

[John Lackey]

Everything that's on the line.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Like, 108 years.

[John Lackey]

You need me. One out, one inning.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Got you.

[David Ross]

I'm here. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When. When Raja hits that home run, you guys are down the bullpen. We all are numb.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, we have.

[Anthony Rizzo]

We have the rain delay. Where are you guys at? You were down there.

[Jake Arrieta]

You were. I came back in.

[David Ross]

What were you thinking when Raje went deep?

[John Lackey]

I was thinking.

[Jake Arrieta]

I was thinking loudest things I've ever heard.

[John Lackey]

Yeah, I was just thinking at that point, like, it's a coin flip now. Like, you just. You're not sure which direction it's Going to go. Because nobody expected that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Nobody.

[John Lackey]

Nobody expected nobody.

[Anthony Rizzo]

No one saw bullpen.

[Jake Arrieta]

They're so weird because they're. Remember, there's, like, fans in front of front of the bullpen and behind you. Like, we were like. We were like, surrounded by Cleveland fans, and they were screaming. We just kind of give us the bird.

[John Lackey]

We just kind of like, he was lackey's to my left. And we just kind of like, oh, look at each other. Like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

Try to play it cool.

[David Ross]

I was catching it. Usually I turn the page really fast on the next. I kept going, fuck. Like, man, like, just negative.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The fact that Chaby got through the ninth inning, though, was.

[Jake Arrieta]

Dude, such. Such balls.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

And do another inning.

[John Lackey]

Insane, man.

[David Ross]

And then the rain delay. You said you were getting ready.

[John Lackey]

I was getting ready. I was kind of towards the tail end of.

[David Ross]

Of the speech, and then you were in the.

[Jake Arrieta]

I was in there.

[David Ross]

Yeah, in there. What do you remember about that, man?

[Jake Arrieta]

I obviously j. Getting up, saying what he said. But then I still thought there was a. There was a pretty good vibe with the boys. I mean, we. We didn't come this far. Just, you know, to come this far. Like, we still. We still had a great opportunity and. And I think the boys still believed.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coming out of that.

[David Ross]

Coming out of there. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

What were your thoughts like during. During that speech?

[Anthony Rizzo]

My. I would always go to Bussy with everything. So I'm talking to Bussy. Dexter and I had just re upped on our five hour energy and Woodford reserve cocktail Myers speedball. We called it from Bill Murray. And we're just like, no way. Like, we're gonna win this. Like, just kind of like trying to psych ourselves out of what just happened. Because I remember when that happened, looking in our dugout, getting a temperature of our guys. Everyone was like, pale as a ghost. I remember even looking at, like, Theo because he was kind of like in our peripheral there off the dugout. He was like a ghost. So it was like getting to that ninth and getting to reset was huge. And then obviously we all come together.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, reset's a good, great word.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It was like we all come together, like, and.

[Jake Arrieta]

And Jay. Hey, that gets up and talk. A guy that doesn't do a ton of stuff, right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

People that.

[Jake Arrieta]

People that don't talk a lot, when they do say something, it means something sometimes.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[Jake Arrieta]

I mean.

[John Lackey]

I mean, he was always a guy that showed up in the right moment to say the right thing.

[David Ross]

He's one of the most pro guys

[John Lackey]

I've ever Been around ever. And not the most vocal guy. We all know that. But when something needs to be said to the group, he's paying attention. He was the guy for the job.

[David Ross]

He's paying attention. He's got a really good feel for people and moments and stuff like that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But I think too, the fact that, like, that was our team too, like, we are so close. So the fact that it almost happened organically, that meeting, and then he did call some guys in, but, like, we were all there, like, like getting closer anyways too, and it just all happened the right way. Dexter said it perfectly. He was like, that 17 minute delay was the tears of all the fans. Like 108 years of tears. Just like, no, please don't do this.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's good, right?

[Anthony Rizzo]

So that's pretty.

[Jake Arrieta]

That's awesome.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But coming out and then getting those hits and winning is like, that celebration is. Is, man. I've only done it once. I don't know if ever doing it again could match.

[Jake Arrieta]

The only bad part was it was in Cleveland. They have such a small. It'd been better if we'd have been at home, way bigger clubhouse to have a good time.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's a great point.

[Jake Arrieta]

And there's million. It rained a million reporters and stuff in there.

[John Lackey]

They smell like hell in there.

[Jake Arrieta]

They were trying to get in our way where we were trying to, you know, have some cold beers and stuff.

[David Ross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But like, the. The magnitude of us winning. Did you. It was your first year there, this your second year, did you guys think that. That. That what you saw transpire afterwards with Cubs fans, probably to this day, you guys see Cubs fans?

[John Lackey]

Well, for me, I didn't understand exactly how significant it was until more time has passed. Have you guys experienced that too?

[Jake Arrieta]

A little bit.

[David Ross]

Royal told me that we were partying in. In Boston and we're sitting there and he's like, ross, how you feel? I was like, I don't. I don't feel anything. It's just like, I'm happy. But he's like, you won't. Time has to pass. And like saying like, they. That city treated me like I was you guys, like the backup catcher, you know, and that, like, probably carried you off the field, right? Well, it's not about me. About me either, but it's like that kind of stuff. And the love you have, you talking about the brothers for life and like the fact you go into restaurants and you get like stand ovations and there's these things. It's like people are just so generous with their love in that city. It's because of that.

[John Lackey]

Well, the stories. Right. Like my great grandparents or grandparents, it was their dying wish to see it. And they passed away a month or two months later. Like.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

And the stories continue to.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Crazy.

[David Ross]

That's my favorite all the time. When you run into fans asking their game seven story and then they start in on all that.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That's my favorite part, was a baseball fan that year. The story of the World Series was, you know, the Indians hadn't won in like 60 something years. We hadn't won. The fans were actually like enjoyable the entire.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Because they were so happy.

[John Lackey]

It was like.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. It's not a big rivalry or anything.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And the fact that we came out on top and then hearing all those stories is like, this is like. We knew it would be monumental. But then the parade, 5 million people.

[Jake Arrieta]

That was.

[David Ross]

Wow, that was nuts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You guys almost died. You're on that flow. Right off my face.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Lackey]

He was.

[Jake Arrieta]

Got his head cut off.

[John Lackey]

I was right behind him.

[David Ross]

Yeah, we were with Lester and Woody.

[John Lackey]

And Woody.

[David Ross]

And we had that, that thing hit. It hit you across. Remember the little. The screen that we walked through from the players parking garage?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Ross]

So that netting. They had a wire up top. Well, our. The cameraman that was filming it was like we were on the very back sitting on the top of the bus and he's got this thing and the. His camera. Nobody told us to duck. His camera hit that wire and it like pulled and then it flew down and that thing whipped all three of us. Lester at miss. Lester hit you. You had a hat on.

[Jake Arrieta]

I, I had sunglasses gone. They were out on the street somewhere.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Ross]

It hit me. Almost ripped my nose. I was like, nose is bleeding. My wife.

[Jake Arrieta]

You had a full on like whammy right here.

[David Ross]

It was like. Yeah, no skin on my nose. And I think it hit Woody's. Ms. Lester, but it hit Woody too.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Somewhere.

[David Ross]

Yeah, no, Woody shirtless.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

And he was already three sheets. But yeah, we went on that, that parade. That wasn't stopping us. We still partied. Just, Just hard in that. Getting up on that stage, I, I got all the feels on that stage where I could barely go.

[Jake Arrieta]

So many people.

[David Ross]

God almighty.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Five million people, bro.

[David Ross]

That's crazy.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I look at videos all the time. I'm just like people saying.

[David Ross]

I just remember people like seeing like the sea of people and then the tops of trees, you know, I mean, it was like. It was as far as you could possibly see.

[Jake Arrieta]

I had my little daughter just been born. I was Carrying my daughter, like, it's cool.

[John Lackey]

But as we would continue to move block to block, you just see the wave of people following us.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Couldn't even see the streets.

[David Ross]

Right.

[John Lackey]

Incredible.

[Anthony Rizzo]

When you guys look back on, like, the body of work of your careers, where, like, from a leadership standpoint, Right. We all have different styles.

[Jake Arrieta]

Where.

[Anthony Rizzo]

What, like, what are you guys proud of? Like, looking back on that team, your O2 team, you go ahead and play with the Phillies, everything you learned, you had bounced around a little bit with San Diego, back to the Cubs, like, where. What are you most proud of looking back on 10 years later?

[John Lackey]

I think I'm most proud of getting everything out of my potential that I possibly could have. You know, it took me a while to get going, to kind of hit my stride and figure things out, but I left it all out there. And that's why when I get asked, like, do I miss it? I miss you guys. You know, I. I do miss some of the competition, but I. I did everything in my power to perform the best that I possibly could. So I think showing young guys and even. Even the veteran players, like, hey, when. When I'm out there, they know that I'm doing everything in my power to help us win a baseball game every. Every fifth day, you know, for you, definitely for 12 years, you know, and even when I wasn't very good early in my career, I was still trying to be. You know, I just didn't. I just really hadn't really found my stride yet. You know,

[Jake Arrieta]

I just really, like. I think I got what I could out of my. Out of my talent. I think I. I worked hard, I respected the game. Hopefully I took care of people, you know, even outside the team, like, you know, the clubhouse, guys and people like that. Hopefully, you know, they say good things about me, and. And hopefully when guys walked in the locker room, they saw my name on the lineup. They thought we had a chance that day.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's about it.

[Jake Arrieta]

Well said.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, it's.

[David Ross]

And that's all. That's true.

[Anthony Rizzo]

It's really two different career paths, honestly, because you are. We're a career path of, like, resilience, of, obviously, we all had to face our adversities. But, like, you were close to, like, fringe, right? There's a lot of guys that are out there right now at any level, any kid playing sports of, like, man, am I that good?

[Jake Arrieta]

Or.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I. I feel like I'm good, but I can't figure it out. And it's like, you did figure it out, and you, like, figured it out to the highest level in a big, big way.

[David Ross]

Well, I trusted yourself.

[John Lackey]

Well, sure, sure. You know, I did do a lot of soul searching and look in the mirror and conversations with. With Brittany. When Cooper was this big and, you know, close to get being pregnant with Palmer, it's like, do I want to drag my family around minor league hotels, you know?

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You know, I was at a point in 2012 and 13, like, I might go back to school and finish my business degree, start a business.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Those are real thoughts.

[John Lackey]

I was kind of at. I was at that spot. Brittany and I had a long conversation, and she's like, you're not done yet. And I felt that in my heart, you know, awesome. But I was, you know, and guys go through that every year.

[David Ross]

We said it difficult. We said, sucks to suck.

[John Lackey]

Sucks to suck because there's so much on the line.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, I, I. Well, with you lack, you've been. You were so consistent for your entire career. But like you said, I was consistently. Okay, here's the deal.

[John Lackey]

I have to make a lot of money.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I relate to you because guys I play with, like, the superstars I played around, they were so much more talented than me. Yeah, I've seen these dudes hit bombs, and, like, for me, I always thought, like, right here was, like, the end all be all right because everyone's talented. And then Rossi, you were. You grinded for, you know, you played every day for a little bit.

[David Ross]

Yeah, yeah. No, like, you try to start and you try to. You want to do this. I became better in. In Chicago. I mean, in Atlanta, backing up Brian McCann and realized, like, man, I'm just gonna. I love the support staff role, and, like, I want to play a lot, but, like, I could. I couldn't handle a lot of the mental side. Like, I let 0 for 12s turn into over 24s. You know what I mean? And trying to hit four home runs and a bad. So I'm very thankful for the teams I've been on, the teammates, the people that affected me, made me a better person and teammate that affected me in winning teams, you know, and so getting to Boston and taking that to Chicago and doing that with John and how he treated me and all my. The things I've learned about what a big leaguer is, I get to manage with no experience. Like, there's a. There's a lot of great that baseball has given me, and it's all because of my teammates and things I've learned of just paying attention to. Wow, this guy makes me feel this way. You should treat people this way. Stuff like that and trying to grind. On the day I played, you were

[Jake Arrieta]

unbelievable at talking, like, kind of being where those guys were. Like, you could talk to people, you know where they were at. Like, you could. You really related to everyone.

[David Ross]

Well, I think the blessing, looking back on being able to do that because I had a bunch of different roles. I started for like a year and a half.

[John Lackey]

I had.

[David Ross]

I've been the backup. I know how hard it is to pinch hit. I know what, like, it's like to suck a lot and have some success and win and lose. So, like, being on that bounce around a bunch of different teams, see good managers, see bad managers. This is like, you know, you get perspective. Perspectives of. I think is a powerful thing in our game. Even being a dad. Like, yeah, you'll be able to teach Cooper and. And tell the kids. Like, you. You're able to tell everybody, oh, no, no. I'm doing my daughter right now. It's like, no, no. Like, trust me, I know how hard it is mentally to beat yourself up, but, like, you need to talk good to yourself. You know, stuff like that.

[Jake Arrieta]

Little.

[David Ross]

Little things that change the game.

[John Lackey]

Well, and like with. With Rossi, he's not having the longevity of the career that he had without that sort of character.

[David Ross]

Right.

[John Lackey]

And. And being that kind of a teammate. Right. Like, that's extremely rare.

[Anthony Rizzo]

I think all of us, too, though.

[John Lackey]

Well, sure, sure. But his ability to not say, no, I should. I should be this. This guy or that guy. Like, I am who I am.

[David Ross]

Sure, that's right.

[John Lackey]

And I'm going to be the best at it.

[David Ross]

That's right.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And you are.

[David Ross]

You're the best I can. Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

You're the best out there.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[David Ross]

You're the best out there. Worst in here. I saw Med Aquino the other day as I. Hey, man, oh, man.

[Anthony Rizzo]

As I got older in my career, it was like I enjoyed the. The cloudy days more than the sunny days because, like, I would just sit in my locker sometimes I'd laugh like, dude, this is so hard.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

But this is what makes those sunny days so much better.

[David Ross]

No doubt.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Right. When that sun comes out, it's a perfect day in Chicago or New York. It's like, this is why you do it. And struggle would really make me, like, embrace the success more because I was

[John Lackey]

like, yeah, but at the end of the day, you're still one of the best 1200 players on the planet.

[David Ross]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

You know what I mean?

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. Perspective. Yeah.

[John Lackey]

That's like 12 or 1300 guys a year get to play in the big leagues or whatever the number is.

[David Ross]

Yeah, now you're one of them. Now I sit and watch like the World Series or games with, with people or friends or family, and the guy takes one right down the middle. Fouls off a heated right down the mid. They're like, why did he miss that? I'm like, easy, bro. Yeah, easy looks a lot easier.

[Jake Arrieta]

I am definitely not the one that says it's easy. I'm like, d, you guys are out of your mind.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You guys, I'm the same way, bro. I look, I'm like, does it easier? And I go, no, it looks cool. How do they hit that?

[Jake Arrieta]

No, they're better. Everybody throws a million. Like, when I first came up, there was like three guys in the league that threw 100. Now every team has three guys.

[David Ross]

Yeah, G was like the dot guy and he threw like 96. Yeah, right now 96 is a starter

[Jake Arrieta]

and it had game over on the fence when he came in.

[David Ross]

Exactly.

[John Lackey]

On that note, I got a question for you. Because you played, played for a long time and you played when guys, you saw some mid upper 90s, not very many, but then towards the end of your career, so a lot of it. How did you make those adjustments? Like as a, as a hitting staff, how did you, how did you guys make those adjustments? Or was it just like, you see it more and it just hand eye coordination or.

[Anthony Rizzo]

The league started turning in like 17, 18. That's when guys started throwing a lot harder, right. But they didn't know where it was going. So it would be hard and down the middle. So it was like, all right, you can gear up. They didn't have the secondary stuff yet. And then over the last six years, it was like, guys are not only throwing hard, but now they're doing all this different pitch sequencing that like, like has been new. The upper, the high fastballs. I think the Dodgers started in 17 and it was like, all right, now we gotta, we gotta make that adjustment up top.

[Jake Arrieta]

So.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And then the last few years it's like, dude, there's these guys are all throwing 100 miles an hour with 93 mile an hour sliders and change ups and it's.

[John Lackey]

And spotting it and spotting it and

[David Ross]

landed secondaries behind on the count. You're like, wait a minute, two zero. There's no, there's no such as a fastball count anymore.

[Jake Arrieta]

No.

[Anthony Rizzo]

So the preparation had to be. You had to really dive even harder into the prep. There wasn't. The days of two zero fastballs were, were gone. Right.

[John Lackey]

They might not see a fastball.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Exactly. So you really had to. To do your homework more. Actually, Schwarber said this to me, which makes so much sense for him as a player. He was like. For him, he thinks hitting is a lot simpler now because guys throw the ball down the middle more, which is true. They don't hit their spots as good as, like, you. You relied on.

[David Ross]

You guys were like, we came up.

[Anthony Rizzo]

You had. You had to power stuff. But, like, we relied on your stuff. Right. For sure. Where he's like, guys now miss so down the middle. And his eye is so good. He's like, I just swing at the stuff over the middle, which.

[John Lackey]

Regardless of the pitch.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, regardless of the pitch.

[John Lackey]

Yeah.

[Anthony Rizzo]

And I'm like, well, for you, that makes sense because you strike out a lot looking and, like, you have such a good eye. That's why he walks 100 plus times. Yeah.

[David Ross]

It was hard for me as a manager to start buying into catcher, setting down middle because of the way I was brought up in fastball, command and on the edges and stuff that when we were coming in.

[John Lackey]

So, like, we did that a lot, though.

[David Ross]

Yeah, we.

[John Lackey]

No, because of my stuff.

[David Ross]

Because your stuff. Because it went.

[John Lackey]

Because it made no sense for me to have you set up on the outside corner, inside corner, and I miss this far off. It's a ball, right? It's like, if my. My stuff's doing this, take my chances.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah. You know, but the evolution of the game is. Evolution of the game. The numbers and the analytics and all that is, I think, amazing if you. If you know how to use it the right way. It's great information, but like, anything in life, if you're oversaturated, then.

[Jake Arrieta]

Yeah, you're gonna be.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah, you're gonna be spinning too much. Well, this is.

[David Ross]

This is our. This is our process of, like, saying thanks to our teammates and having fun and putting this in a. In a series where we get to tell all the stories. So it's been really fun. So thank you for your time. Thank you for my ring, my two rings, and the watch. Okay. Yeah. All the jewelry. All the jewelry. We love you guys to death. I love you guys to death, man. You guys are the best. Thanks for opening your home for us and taking your time and final thoughts.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Dude, without we say this, without you guys, without everyone on that team, that puzzle isn't complete. And like, our relationship. Our relationship, it's like forever. And I love you guys. And seriously, without you, you. How much you both have taught me, I'd say Ross all the time. But you have taught me as a person, as a. As a player, as a. As a dad. Now is like, I take for the rest of my life. So thank you.

[Jake Arrieta]

Awesome.

[John Lackey]

Ultimate team game, man. Like, we can't. Couldn't. Couldn't have done it without you. Really.

[David Ross]

Love you, dad.

[Anthony Rizzo]

Yeah.

[John Lackey]

Love you, dad.

[Anthony Rizzo]

That is a rap.

[John Lackey]

That's a rap, boys.

[David Ross]

Thank you. Good work. Good stuff.

[John Lackey]

Done great.

[Jake Arrieta]

Boom. Killed it.

[David Ross]

You guys nailed it. I love what you guys are.

[John Lackey]

Our talent. So 14.