Chazz Palminteri | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Chazz Palminteri | December 10, 2025

---

Overview

In this riveting episode of The Magnificent Others, Billy Corgan hosts acclaimed actor, writer, and director Chazz Palminteri. Their deep and personal conversation centers around Chazz’s journey from a tough upbringing in the Bronx to the heights of Hollywood, the origins of his legendary work A Bronx Tale, and the enduring cultural codes and family dynamics that shaped his life and career. Together, they explore the grey morality of the old neighborhood, the sacrifices necessary for creative integrity, and themes of heritage, trauma, perseverance, and fatherhood.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Chazz’s Early Struggles and Artistic Breakthrough

00:54 – 06:59

• Chazz’s Time as a Bouncer in Hollywood

  • Chazz recounts running out of money in LA (after guest roles on Hill Street Blues, Matlock, Dallas), leading him to work as a bouncer at “2020” in the Beverly Center.

    “I ran out of money when I first got there in ‘86… and I used to bounce in New York at the Limelight.”—Chazz (00:59)

  • Details the strict code of being a doorman: never say “Do you know who I am?”, never touch the rope, never break the space.

    “You never say, ‘Do you know who I am?’ Ever. If you say those words, it’s over.”—Chazz (03:37)

• The Swifty Lazar Incident

  • Chazz is fired after refusing powerful Hollywood agent Swifty Lazar entry for breaking all three doorman rules.

    “He said, 'You’ll be fired in 15 minutes.'… 15 minutes later, the boss called me in and I got fired.”—Chazz (04:49-05:09)

• Turning Setback into Opportunity

  • Out of desperation and with only a few hundred dollars left, Chazz vows to write himself a great part—the genesis of A Bronx Tale.

    “If they won’t give me a great part, I’ll write one myself. I went to Thrifty Drugstore… That’s how Bronx Tale was born.”—Chazz (05:31-06:15)

---

The Creation, Struggle, and Success of A Bronx Tale

07:00 – 15:18

• Writing and Performing the One-Man Show

  • Chazz acted out all 18 characters in a one-man show, funding it with a loan from a friend.

    “I’m not going to have people read it. I’m going to play the parts…”—Chazz (07:00)

• Hollywood Comes Calling—But Not for Chazz

  • Describes turning down $250K, then $500K, then $1 million, all because studios refused to allow him to play Sonny or write the screenplay.

    “Unless I play Sonny and I write the screenplay, I’m not doing it… Everybody in Hollywood was saying, ‘This crazy bastard turned down $250,000.’”—Chazz (10:56-11:22)

  • Chazz draws strength from his father’s mantra:

    “The saddest thing in life is wasted talent.”—Chazz (12:04)

• Robert De Niro Partnership

  • Two weeks after yet another refusal, De Niro attends the show and offers Chazz the deal he’d wanted: star, write, and De Niro will direct and play the father.

    “You should play Sonny, you should write the screenplay… If you shake my hands, that’s the way it’ll be.”—De Niro (14:30-15:15)

---

Why A Bronx Tale Resonates: Universal Archetypes & Audience Connection

15:25 – 18:48

• Emotional Impact and Themes

  • Chazz notes his show makes people laugh, cry, and scares them, referencing Alfred Hitchcock’s philosophy:

    “You can make them laugh, you can make them cry, or you can scare them… In Bronx Tale, I make you laugh, I make you cry, and I scare you.”—Chazz (00:18, 15:38, 16:17)

  • The story’s appeal, especially to fathers and sons, lies in archetypes and the universal fear of wasting potential.

    “Everybody has that dream inside of them about not wasting their life…”—Chazz (17:38)

• Memorable Quote:

  “When you write lightning in a bottle… you sit there and wonder, how did this happen?”—Billy (17:07)

---

Growing Up in the Old Neighborhood: Honor, Trauma, and Change

18:53 – 33:22

• Honor Among Thieves and Changing Street Codes

  • Both discuss the mafia’s “code of honor,” contrasted with later generations and other mobs.

    “The old time wise guys did a thing of honor where they wouldn’t shoot, they wouldn’t kill a man in front of his family…”—Chazz (21:52)

• Barbaric World vs. Community

  • Chazz describes his childhood as both joyful and traumatic, including seeing a killing at age nine.

    “Did I see things and know things that a young boy should not know? Yes.”—Chazz (23:30)

  • The concept of “not ratting” becomes a foundational lesson early on.
  • The cultural clannishness (Italians, Irish, Germans, Swedes) is examined.
  • Both recall the mix of pride and shame in immigrant identities and the pressure to “be American” and leave the past behind.

    “When my grandparents came here, they wanted to be American. That’s why I don’t speak Italian…”—Chazz (29:48)

---

Keeping Cultural Identity Alive

31:18 – 33:22

• Cultural Roots vs. Globalism
  • Chazz and Billy discuss the loss of ethnic distinctiveness in a more globalized world.

    “I don’t like the feeling of globalism… I enjoy my roots of being Italian, and I enjoy meeting people who are Irish and tell me about their culture.”—Chazz (31:26-32:04)

  • Celebration of ancestry as a way to honor family struggles and success.

---

Fame, Family, and Artistic Integrity

33:22 – 41:29

• Fame Arrives Late

  • Chazz reflects on moving from near poverty to flying on a private jet with De Niro.

    “Not too long ago, I was like, trying to get water for my car… now my life is changing, you know?”—Chazz (35:05)

  • Talks about raising grateful children amidst privilege.

• Neighborhood Reactions to Success

  • The real Bronx neighborhood welcomed his film, as long as the names were changed.

    “The only name I didn’t change was Eddie Mush. Because that was Eddie Mush.”—Chazz (39:14)

  • Mentions how the real families reacted, and the importance of not using real names—advice delivered implicitly via phone call.

• Old World Superstitions

  • Chazz’s grandma “froze” enemies’ names in ice cubes to put a curse on their fortunes.

    “My grandfather… would freeze them. He would write their name and put it in the ice cube… so their life was frozen.”—Chazz (43:17)

---

The Evolving Perspective of a Storyteller (Sonny vs. Lorenzo)

44:35 – 47:06

• Understanding Characters as Both Son and Father

  • Chazz’s relationship to his play shifted after becoming a father himself.

    “When I became a father and my son was born, I started to relate more to the father, to the son, to the boy. And the play just became better…”—Chazz (45:12)

  • The character of Sonny was based partly on a real person, but Chazz still guards the identity.

    “Have you ever said who Sonny’s based on? No, never.”—Chazz (39:51)

• Sonny's Street Philosophy

  • Chazz absorbed Sonny’s “Machiavellian” worldview over time, applying it to his own thinking.

---

Hollywood, Screenwriting, and the Realities of the Business

47:06 – 51:16

• Hollywood’s Reluctance and Typecasting
  • Chazz sold several screenplays, but many were never produced. It’s a common fate; not getting something made in Hollywood is the norm, not the exception.

    “There’s writers in Hollywood that have been there for 25 years, never got a movie made.”—Chazz (49:37)

  • He’s mostly unfazed by typecasting, though he appreciates when people recognize him for more versatile roles.

    “What’s the role that you’ve played that was the furthest away from these kind of typecast roles?”—Billy (52:06)
    “Nothing comes to mind…”—Chazz (52:21)

---

Family, Legacy, and Life Philosophy

52:45 – 55:16

• Time is Precious

  • Chazz’s main lesson for his kids: Don’t waste time, appreciate youth—and don’t expect your parents’ reputation to hand you success.

    “You don’t know you’re old until you’re old.” —Chazz (53:00)
    “The name will get you maybe one block. I can get you in the door, maybe, and you’re on your own.” —Chazz (54:43)

• No Bronx Tale Sequel

  • He’s been asked often but never had a worthy story idea for a sequel.

    “I just never had a great story after that.” —Chazz (55:34)

  • Instead, he’s written a film about the making of A Bronx Tale.

---

Spirituality and Goodness

56:39 – 57:46

• Faith and Imperfection
  • Chazz is Roman Catholic and spiritual, though acknowledges his flaws, emphasizing devotion to family.

    “Nothing’s more important than my wife and my children. Nothing.” —Chazz (57:45)

---

Processing Childhood Trauma and Lessons for a New Generation

57:48 – 64:17

• Witnessing a Murder as a Child

  • Chazz reflects that decades later it feels dreamlike; the image of the dying man still lingers.

    “He was looking right at me. I remember just looking at him… That’s the one thing I think about whenever I go back to that moment.” —Chazz (59:02)

  • He and Billy discuss how the codes of childhood shaped reactions to trauma and how parenting has changed.

    “The lessons we were taught weren’t necessarily the best lessons.” —Billy (61:11)

• Teaching Street Smarts and Boxing

  • Chazz believes children, especially boys, should know how to defend themselves—not to fight, but for confidence.

    “Any father… should teach a young boy how to fight. Not to get in fights. To stay out of fights.” —Chazz (62:03)

• Boxing Heroes

  • Sugar Ray Robinson is cited as Chazz’s ideal fighter and inspiration.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Artistic Integrity:
  “The saddest thing in life is wasted talent.” —Chazz quoting his father (12:04)
• On Hollywood:
  “Everybody in Hollywood was saying, 'This crazy bastard turned down $250,000.'” —Chazz (10:56-11:22)
• On Family and Success:
  “Nothing’s more important than my wife and my children. Nothing.” —Chazz (57:45)
• On Childhood Trauma:
  “It’s almost like a dream now. Like it never happened.” —Chazz (58:13)
• On Youth:
  “You don’t know you’re old until you’re old.” —Chazz (53:00)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Swifty Lazar incident and origins of A Bronx Tale – 04:49–06:15
• Refusing multiple offers, sticking to creative vision – 10:32–14:29
• Meeting De Niro, getting the movie made – 14:29–15:15
• Explaining the show’s universal impact (laughter, tears, fear) – 15:25–18:44
• Exploring honor in the mob & cultural change – 21:52–25:17
• Cultural assimilation and family secrets – 28:36–33:02
• Reflection on fame’s late arrival and staying grounded – 34:12–36:31
• Handling neighborhood reaction to A Bronx Tale – 39:04–40:01
• The lessons from trauma, fatherhood, and evolving perspective – 57:48–62:26
• The philosophy of fighting and confidence – 62:03–64:17

---

Flow and Tone

The conversation is deeply personal, reflective, and laced with the grit, candor, and humor that both Chazz and Billy share from their upbringings. Despite the heaviness of some topics, the episode is warm, nostalgic, and at times laugh-out-loud funny, grounded by a mutual sense of wonder at life’s unpredictable journey.

---

This summary captures the essence, structure, and spirit of the episode, providing those who haven’t listened a thorough overview of the insights and stories shared.

Transcript

[Chazz Palminteri]

I produced it, and the place went crazy. I did it. And people were screaming and clapping, and the crowds just kept getting bigger.

[Billy]

When you first were standing there going, oh, my God, what's happening? What was your first thought of, like, what was it that they were connecting so deeply with?

[Chazz Palminteri]

You can make them laugh, you can make them cry, or you could scare them. That's it. Can't do anything else, sir. And in Bronze Tale, I make you laugh, I make you cry, and I scare you.

[Billy]

In the case of Swifty Lazar, yeah, he gets you fired. You make a decision, and it changes your life.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Exactly. My son used to say, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Don't worry about it. Nobody cares.

[Billy]

Thank you for being on my show, Billy.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's good to be here.

[Billy]

Today I got to be on your show, but today you're on show.

[Chazz Palminteri]

One day I'd love to have you on the show.

[Billy]

I hope I got the year right. 1988. You're working as a bouncer in Hollywood. Is that a true story?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes. Yeah, I ran out of money when I first got there in 86. I hit it. I hit what? I hit it. Whatever you want to call that. I got guest star roles. I got on Hill Street Blues and Matlock and Dallas, and I was like, wow. I started really cranking. I was an actor in la. I mean, in New York. I was on Broadway, understudy. That was my first big break where I got an agent. But then I went out to LA and I started working as a guest star on some of these shows. And then after about a year and a half, I ran out of that money that I did. And I used to bounce in New York at the Limelight.

In.

Manhattan. So then I said, well, I better start doing that again. And I got a job as the doorman. Doorman bouncer.

[Billy]

More of a door. Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But a doorman bouncer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At this club in Beverly Hills.

[Billy]

You certainly have the presence for that. You know what I mean?

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, I'm tall and big, and I could. You know, I used to box and work out a lot. You know, I'm okay. I could handle myself.

[Billy]

You know who you always reminded me of, and I mean, this is a compliment I always take is George Raft.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, I love George Raft.

[Billy]

Your presence has a George. Just George Raft. It's like, I buy that. You. Like, if you were the bouncer, I. You know what I mean? I buy it without you having to open your mouth, you know?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Well, that's the idea, you know, you don't want to be able to. Have to open your mouth. You just want to be able to talk to somebody, I guess, after years. I mean, I grew up in a very.

Tough neighborhood in the Bronx. A lot of tough guys. But. And I always say, if you put me on the scale of those tough guys there, I'm way on the bottom. There were guys in my neighborhood that was just. My God, you know, they were just stone cold.

[Billy]

But if you grew up around tough guys. I grew up around tough Gu, too.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I grew up around mafia guys.

[Billy]

Me, too.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

Or the. The grandkids.

[Chazz Palminteri]

The grandkids. Yeah.

[Billy]

Yeah. I like. I went to school with, you know, Tony ocarto. Tony Accardo Jr.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right. Yeah.

[Billy]

I grew up, like, around those kids, the Chicago.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I love it in you. So I went to the father. Yeah, yeah.

[Billy]

So. So. So. So I grew up around a lot of those wise guys in their family. So it's. I know the vibe, you know?

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know the vibe. Yeah. You know, So I grew up and anyway, I had this job and the whole. The way.

[Billy]

The name of the place. Sorry.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

It was called 2020.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And that was because it was in the Beverly.

The Beverly Center. And it was like, 20. The dress was 2020.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And I worked there. And it was a French guy, great guy, too, Furneaux. And a really nice guy. And I worked there for, like two or three months. And after about the third month, you know, everything was great. And the one night. This is how the whole thing started, Billy. One night, I'm standing over there, and all of a sudden, there's three rules of a doorman that you don't break. You never say, do you know who I am? Ever? If you say those words, it's over. It's over. You're not getting it. Can I curse? Yeah, of course you're not getting it. The second thing is, you never touch the rope. The rope that goes across.

[Billy]

Okay. I didn't know.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Never. You put your hand.

[Billy]

I knew not to say, do you know who I am?

[Chazz Palminteri]

You put your hands on that rope. Oh.

[Billy]

Cause you're doing the.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right. You're not getting it. And the third thing is, if you break the space and you get in the guy's face. You're not getting it.

[Billy]

I see.

[Chazz Palminteri]

So this guy walks over.

Says, do you know who I am?

[Billy]

And grabs the rope.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Grabs the rope and gets in my face. So this guy broke.

[Billy]

How tall was this gentleman?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, he was like five short. Right, five short. And he had these big horn rim glasses.

[Billy]

That was his trademark.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And he Walked in and he says that words to me. I said, yes, you're the guy who's not getting in tonight. And he said, you will be fired in 15 minutes. And he. And I said, you get online, you know. And 15 minutes later, the boss called me in and I got fired.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It was.

[Billy]

And this is Swifty Lazar.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Swifty Lazar. That's a true story of Swifty Lazar.

[Billy]

At the time, wasn't he. At the time, he was considered the most powerful man in Hollywood.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Powerful man in the world. At William Morris.

[Billy]

And you wanted to be an actor, right?

[Chazz Palminteri]

I wanted to be an actor. The most powerful man in the world. I just told him, go himself. And I love that I got fired, just like you said. And the owner, I always say, props to the owner because he's a great guy. He said, look, I love you, man. You've been so great, but he has too many parties here. I gotta let you go. I said, ah, don't worry about it. I went home, sat on the edge of my bed. I said, what am I going to do? I was running out of money. I had a couple hundred dollars left in the bank. And that's what I said. If they won't give me a great part, I'll write one myself. I went to Thrifty Drugstore. I got these five yellow tabs of paper, legal paper, and I said, I'll write about this killing that I saw when I was a kid. I always wanted to write about the dynamic between the working man, the mafia, and my father. And I started writing, and that's how Braun Steele was born.

[Billy]

Had you ever tried to write anything before?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, I did. I did write. I wrote short stories. I wrote lyrics to the band that I was in.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, like, ever.

[Billy]

Ever a screenplay?

[Chazz Palminteri]

No.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Never a screenplay.

[Billy]

Good, good.

[Chazz Palminteri]

First short stories. My first screenplay. But I was an actor for years, so I knew what a screenplay was. Sure, I knew I knew the form.

[Billy]

But still, that's a big thing to jump into.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes. But I just was like, you know, when you. It's called poverty desperation. You just do it. Yeah, you just do it. You know, it's like I'm doing it. I started writing, and the more I started writing, the more I started learning, Reading about how the structure. Not structure, about how, you know, fade in, fade out. But I was always natural. I was a natural storyteller.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I was really good at telling stories, you know, And I did it. And then I said, I'm going to play all the characters, all 18 characters. Myself, I said, I'm not going to have people read it. I'm going to play the parts. I said, this way.

[Billy]

Sorry to interrupt you. How long a process was that in terms of writing and making that decision? Okay, a year. And you're still doing bit parts and acting?

[Chazz Palminteri]

And I got a part on a TV series called Peter Gunn.

And it was a movie of the week. And I got like $10,000 for that. And that was able to sustain me for the year.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because my rent was like $300 a month.

[Billy]

And where were you living in LA at that point?

[Chazz Palminteri]

North Hollywood.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And, you know, and I lived in, you know, dump, you know, one of those motels, you know, like we all. And I had a dumpy car and it was, you know, it was pretty. But it's like an actor, you know, I'm not, you know, what are you gonna do? That's what. You're an actor. That's the way you live. And finally I finished writing it and then I borrowed some. I borrowed money from my friend who owned the Limelight, okay, Peter Gation. He lent me, I think 20, $30,000. And then I put it up at this little theater and Billy, I produced it. And the place went crazy. I did it. And people were screaming and clapping and the crowds just kept getting bigger.

[Billy]

This is in New York?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah, in la.

[Billy]

Oh, in la.

[Chazz Palminteri]

In la.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And then.

Then the LA Times came and all these people heard about it and came to see it and it was like the rage of Hollywood. It was like incredible. And everybody wanted to make it a movie, but they didn't want me.

[Billy]

How soon from when you debuted the One man version of A Bronx Tale to Hollywood agents start?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Two weeks.

[Billy]

Two weeks.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Two weeks.

[Billy]

You must have pinched yourself. Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Word gets out in Hollywood and there's something that could be a movie. People said, you got to see this kid. He's did this two weeks. It's. People started. Agents started coming, you know, and what.

[Billy]

When they told you, because this is such a big part of the story, when they told you, hey, we want the story, but we don't want you. Like, what was their rationale?

[Chazz Palminteri]

The first. I got a phone call at my home and my house and I, you know, really didn't have cell phones back in 1980, you know, 87, 86. So I picked up the phone and the guy said, this is a gentleman from. I forgot his name from Universal Pictures. He said, we had a representative see the show last night. We love it. We want to give you $250,000. Now I'm living in some hole. My car is a 1972 Honda, you know, with a dent in it that kept leaking water. And I said, 250,000. I said, for my play. He goes, yeah, we want to develop it into a story. I said, but I want to play Sonny. And he went, no, I'm sorry. No. We just want. We want the rights to the play, to what you did. And that was the hardest call, to be honest with you. And I'll explain why, because I said, let me think about it. And he said, okay, but you have to let us know by tomorrow. I said, fine. And I hung up the phone and.

[Billy]

I said, I love the pressure.

[Chazz Palminteri]

250,000.

[Billy]

By the way, that's 1988 money, not $250,000.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Now that's 1988 money.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

So I said, holy. I got no money. I said, but I want to be in it. And I called my parents because they were helping me out for years, and they didn't have any money. And I told them about it, and they said, don't worry, son. Just do what you want.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

They said, you do what you want. Don't we trust you? So I called them back the next day, and I said, look, I'm sorry. I said, unless I play Sonny and I write the screenplay, I'm not doing it. They said, well, then forget it. I said, okay. And everybody in Hollywood was saying, this crazy bastard turned down 250,000. About two weeks later, they called back again.

500,000.

And I said, I told you. See, it was easy after the first one, it was easy because people go, it must have been. I go, no. The first one was the hardest because that came out of nowhere. Then it became just money to me. I didn't have any money, so what did it matter? And I turned down the 500,000. Then William Morris came. ICM came, and all these big.

[Billy]

William Morris. Who's Swifty Lazaro? Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And then all these people came. And then finally I went. I signed with William Morris, okay? And they brought me to another. Another studio who wanted to see me. And I sat down at the table, and the guy. I'll never forget it. They were all sitting around a table, and the guy had a piece of paper right here, and he slid it over to me during the meeting, and he said, if you sign that paper, Chaz, you'll have a check for $1 million tomorrow.

And I said, a million dollars?

I said. I said, but. But I have to play Sonny and the guy. I'll never Forget his. He just put his head down like this. He said, listen, you're a great actor. I know you've been on Broadway. You're terrific. But we can make a big movie with you playing the lead. No one knows you. No one. So I just said, is there a bathroom you have here? He said, yeah, right over there. I said, excuse, I'll be right back. I went into the men's room, the executive bathroom there. So I look in the mirror. I put water on my hand, put water on my face. And I went, I'm looking in the mirror. And I put my hand in my pocket, and I brought my father's card. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent. And I took out the card and I said. I looked at it and I said it. I'll never forget it. Put the card back in. I walked outside, I said, I'm sorry. I can't do it. And he said. And they all looked at each other, and I said, okay. Well, it was great seeing you guys. And I stood up. Now, once you stand up at a meeting, it's over.

[Billy]

It's over.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's over. And my agents, who are on my left and right, look at me like, this guy's crazy. They stood up with me, and I said, thank you. And I walked out. It was very famous director who wanted to do it. He was there, and he said. And the president of the studio said, you know, Chaz, if you walk out this door, this check won't be here when you get back. That's what he said to me. I said, well, I said, why don't you make it with me?

I go, Because.

I said, make it with me right now. I said, it'd be a lot easier. And he said. He goes. He goes, this movie will never get made. That's what he said. And I said, you're right. It won't get made with you. And he says, why is that? I said, because it's too good, and sooner or later, somebody will make it. And I walked out. And two weeks later, Billy.

[Billy]

Robert De Niro.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I did the show. I got off stage, and the guy came over and said, go down to the dressing room. Robert De Niro is down there. He just saw the show. Yeah, I walk in, and Bob is sitting there in the chair. And I said, hi. You know, I didn't know him. And he said, oh, my God, that's an incredible show. He just raved about the show. He said, you made a movie? And he said. He goes, look, I want to make this a Movie. And you know what I said? I said, well, listen. He goes, I know, I know, but I'll tell you how I feel. You should play Sonny, you should write the screenplay. He goes, I'll play your father and I'll direct it. And if you shake my hands, that's the way it'll be. I shook his hands and that's how the movie.

[Billy]

That's the neighborhood right there. Right?

[Chazz Palminteri]

That's it.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I'm sorry I talked so long, but I wanted to tell the continuation of the story.

[Billy]

What was your first impression when you were. When you saw people reacting so viscerally to it and obviously Hollywood comes calling, what was your first impression of why people were responding so emotionally and viscerally to it?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because, you know, I just. I mean, I mean, I'm telling even till today, bill. And it's 35 years later, I still did the show this week in Chicago. People cry. You know, Alfred Hitchcock used to say, there's only three things you could do to an audience. And if you do two out of three, usually you have a hit. He said, he said, you can make them laugh, you can make them cry, or you could scare them. That's it. Can't do anything else to them. And in Bronx Tale, I make you laugh, I make you cry, and I scare you. So.

You just, look, I've been in it enough. Obviously, you've been an entertainer all your life. You know, when they jump right up and give you a standing ovation, that's a real standing ovation. Yeah, it's not a problem.

[Billy]

You learn to hear the crowd. You learn what's real applause and what's just nice.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Polite.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And what's a kind of polite standing ovation? You know, 30 people stand and people go, oh, I gotta stand up. I know. No. Or when you. When they just go, whoa, yeah, yeah. And every Show I did 10, 60 performances.

[Billy]

Internet says 61, but 61.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Sorry, we won't argue.

[Billy]

We won't argue with you.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I forgot, I forgot. Chicago. And it's just boom. And it's. You know, when you write lightning in a bottle.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Some of your great songs, you know, 1975, you just write, you know, you write lightning in a bottle.

[Billy]

That's true. And you sit there and wonder.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You wonder how this happened.

[Billy]

I get the lightning in the bottle. Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's just lightning. How could I do this again?

[Billy]

But. Sorry to persist in the question, but what do you think again, your first impression?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because what do I think?

[Billy]

Why, when you first were standing there going, oh, my God, what's happening? What was your first thought of, like, what was it that they were connecting so deeply with?

[Chazz Palminteri]

My first thought was, yes, I did it. To be honest with you. I said, I got them. Yeah, I did it. Yeah. And then I. And then I realized that later when we. I. Cause I wrote. I wrote about these archetypes about the father, the mother, wasted talent. Everybody has that dream inside of them about not touch, wasting their life, about doing something, about reaching the highest of potential, and it connects people in a very visceral way. Yeah. It's like I have these kids that weren't born when I did it. Parents bring their son. Fathers bring their sons big time. They bring their daughters. But fathers and sons watch this movie and forget it. It's a thing about fathers and sons. They go, my God. You know, my dad made me see that movie when I was 14 or 15 or 10 or 9. And it just goes on and on.

It's bigger than it ever was, Billy.

It's unbelievable.

[Billy]

So I want to dive into some of the themes because.

Not that, you know, my life story, but I connect to a lot of these themes for a variety of reasons, mainly because of the world I grew up in. I talked a little bit about growing up with a lot of these wise guys around. My dad used to run drugs and guns for the mob, so I was around a lot of wise. Yeah. So I lived in this world at different times.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

You know. And you lived at the edge of that world as well.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

You know, so let's start here. In hindsight, looking back in the world that you grew up in, do you see it now still as an honorable world? Like, was it still a world in your mind, a world based on honor? Because I saw an interview where we were talking about Sonny, and Lorenzo is the father.

[Chazz Palminteri]

My father was Lorenzo? Yes.

[Billy]

And your dad was Lorenzo. Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

Okay, so. And I know Sonny's not real Sonny. It's a character name, but there was a guy. Yes, the wise guy. But.

I loved what you said because you were. Somebody was trying to pin you down on the characters, and you said, well, in a way, it's not black or white. It's both characters are gray.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, yes. I mean, Sonny, I always say this to people. Sonny was a bad guy. I mean, he was a tough guy, and he was a bad guy. He'd kill you. He was the head. He was a boss. He had people killed, no question. And he could be vicious, but he was very funny, and he. And for some reason, for some ungodly Reason that I don't know. And it was my theory, years later that I thought it was his way of his penance in life was, if I do anything right, I'm going to help this kid. So he was just like, leave the kid. He's a good kid. For some reason, he saw something in me, you know, that I was a good guy. So he never said. He told me the same things that my father told me. But because of who he was, my father didn't want me to hang around with him because he was afraid I'd be influenced. And he was right.

[Billy]

But, you know, like, even I remember because I used to live in. We're filming this in New York. I lived in New York in the early 2000s, and I remember there was articles coming out about the Russian mob kind of taking over New York.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

And one of the things they were talking about was that the Russian mob didn't operate the same way the old families operated. With honor.

[Chazz Palminteri]

With honor, yes.

[Billy]

And. And it's in, of course, it's in some of the mob movies where you, you never go after the family of the, the. It's always just between the guys, right? I mean, you leave the families out where the Russian mob had come in and that didn't have those old school.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, it was all bets are all.

[Billy]

So. So again, back to the question, right? Do you, do you, do you, do you see a code of honor there? Do you still see it as honorable, knowing all that? You know, in hindsight?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Okay, that's. It's. See, that's what makes these stories so interesting. The old time wise guys did a thing of honor where they wouldn't shoot, they wouldn't kill a man in front of his family, which is.

[Billy]

Stop for a second. It's so barbaric, right? But yet, like, on a level we still resonate. Like, oh, it's kind of nice.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Kind of nice, Right. See, that's what I'm. I mean, but it's still, it's still barbaric, you know?

[Billy]

Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

[Chazz Palminteri]

We somehow we, you know, you. If a man cheated, if a man flirted or went to seduce another man's wife in the mob, dead. Death. That's it. Death.

[Billy]

You know, even if he was a maid guy.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh. If a maid guy want another maid guy's wife, death.

That's it.

[Billy]

Yeah. No questions asked.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No questions asked. You don't hurt his children. No questions asked. I've seen the old time guys. As the new years came, they started to break that thing, really? Yes, yes. So let's, let's be real here. You know, a lot of them don't like to hear when I say that.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But the guys from the, you know, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s stood by the honor around the mid-80s. Some of those guys didn't follow the creed so much. Not all of them, but some.

[Billy]

Do you miss the world that you grew up in?

Because obviously we're living in a much different world now.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Do I miss it?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I love that I grew up in it. I had a great childhood. I really did. I had an amazing childhood. Did I see this man kill a man right in front of me at nine years old? Yes. But did I see things and know things and know things that a yet a young boy should not know?

[Billy]

Because even yes. And correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, after you saw this man be murdered when you were nine years old, that's at the foundation of the Bronx tale, is, is you knew enough to not rat the guy out.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Absolutely. I was almost 10. I was close to being 10, but I was.

[Billy]

But still I was nine. Go, go on the street right now and look at a 9 or 10 year old boy and imagine thinking that boy has enough of a sense of the world that he, he has to stick by a code ethics that he.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Didn'T meant my son, who was, when he was 10, almost 10. I looked at him when we were celebrating his birthday and I turned to my wife, Jonna, and I said, I said, do you know, look at Dante? I said, I was that age when I saw this. And he was so far removed from that world.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, he was born into a very good world. He was born into a life. A good life.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And he was so far removed from that. So I said to her, I said, I got to teach him as much street as I possibly can.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, but it was, that wasn't just me. We all knew that at that age. All my friends knew that. Yeah, all of us.

[Billy]

But if you think about it, I mean, and I'm a different generation, but again, I grew up in this same world tangentially. Yeah, it was a far more barbaric world. In many ways.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

And in many ways it was more clannish. You know, the Italians, the Germans, you know, in Chicago we had the Swedes. And, you know.

It was rooted down in this kind of tribal factionalism.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Barbaric is a great word. I mean, everything that we learned back then was sex was different. You know, it wasn't, you Know, a play date and you meet girl. It was. It was like.

The wise guys ran a who house, you know, a bordello. And as we grew older, they said, hey, man, you know, do this for us, and, yeah, we'll hook you up. Yeah, we'll hook you up one of the girls, then you go in there, and as a young kid, you know. Yeah, but, you know.

And I. I, look, it's. It's who I am, and I'm. It made me the. The writer that I am. And people always said the best writers experience life.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

So one day, and my son, who's very, very bright, my daughter too, both of them went to great schools. And he said to me, once, he goes, dad, you know, maybe the way you grew up is. Is because of the way you feel sometimes. Because sometimes I don't. I don't get. I don't feel things like other people feel like.

[Billy]

Can you. Can you elaborate that a little bit?

[Chazz Palminteri]

I don't know. Like, if something happens, I'll just go, hey, you know, fuck it. You know, it's the way it goes. You know, it. You know, he'll go, yeah, but, dad, this happened.

[Billy]

But that's kind of what I'm after is. Yeah, because we grew up in these more barbaric subcultures. Yeah, we tend to look at life in a different way, but we don't realize on some level it's the result of trauma.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Without a doubt. Without a doubt, Without a shadow of a doubt. And it took my son to bring that up to me, and I went, I never thought of that. And I've been in therapy for years, you know, but no one's.

[Billy]

Because I have this theory, and I'm using this term loosely, but, you know, those who grew up, of us, who grew up, you know, was products or byproducts of. Of the immigrant classes.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

That. That sort of defined America in the. In the 20th century. Because if you grew up in a city like Chicago or New York, you know, you know, would be the Italians over here, the Irish over here, you know, and I'm Irish and Italian. You know what I mean? So I'd. But I'd hear about it from both ways, both sides of the family. And.

And I remember one time there was this situation where I was at school and the teacher said, okay, you need to go to your grandparents and ask them where their family comes from, country of origin type stuff, you know, immigrant stuff.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right?

[Billy]

And, you know, I went to my paternal grandmother, and she said, oh, well, you know, we're Irish. And we came over, you know, because of the potato famines in the 1800s, and we settled in Kentucky. And, you know, they gave me the basic origin story of that side of the family. I went to my maternal grandmother, who was Sicilian, I think. You're Sicilian?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

And, you know, looked the part. Swarthy, olive skin, wiry hair. I mean, she. Central casting. Grandma from Italy.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

Wasn't born in Italy, but still spoke with an Italian accent, the whole thing. Right. Chicago version. And I said, you know. You know, where's our family? Your family from? I don't want to talk about it. So what do you mean you don't want to talk about it? I said, I know you're Italian, but give me something for the. Because I got to fill this paper out. I was about 10 years old.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

And she said, I'm American now. Yeah, I'm American now. So here she is talking with an accent, cooking Italian food, talking about the old country and the traditions. But in her mind, there was this shame of. And then when I got to my grandfather, who at that point was deceased, her former husband, she didn't want to tell me where his family was from. Whoa. Like, I couldn't even get it out of her. I was like, they had to come from somewhere.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

It was obviously European. Wouldn't tell me.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Wow.

[Billy]

Because it was this thing.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Well, when they came. When we came in, when my grandparents came here, they wanted to be American. That's why I don't speak Italian.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because my parents would only speak Italian when they didn't want us to know anything.

And they said. And my grandfather said, no, no, we don't speak Italian anymore. We're American now.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That's the way it was.

[Billy]

So because it's such a part of your life and the characters you've played and obviously this incredible work that you made.

How do you view that now, as. As. As we've talked about a little bit, that that world's really starting to fall away?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

And I don't mean just. Times change. We grew up in cultures that were very racially identified with country of origin. We were joking before we started taping about how Columbus Day is back.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

You know, Columbus was out, now he's back.

You know, it's. I guess what I'm after is there's been so much talk about culture and in the social fabric of America, but the world we both grew up in, obviously, again, different generations, but these were. It was a given. Like, if you were Italian, you were Italian, and you thought, like, this. And you cared like this. And this was the code of honor, and somebody knew a wise guy and they'd make jokes. And if you were Italian, it was this and, you know, whatever that. Even the Don Rickles and the kind of humor that we would see on television, like, that's all kind of gone away. And I'm not waxing romantic about it. I'm saying is, do you look back sentimentally on it?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah, I do. And I hope that it doesn't totally go away. I really do. I hope.

I really believe that each.

Each ethnic.

Whatever the world, each people. The Italians, the Irish, that we should keep some of our culture to learn where we come from. I don't like the feeling of globalism. Everybody the same, everybody milking in with each other and. Does that make me sound racist? Of course I'm not racist. But I enjoy my roots of being Italian, and I enjoy meeting people who are Irish and tell me about their culture. I enjoy different cultures. I like that.

[Billy]

Yeah. I think it's. I don't know. It's not an identity thing as much as I think everybody should celebrate their ancestors.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Their ancestors. Yes, I do.

[Billy]

I believe that because without them and their journey, we wouldn't be like, you know, we've had great lives.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Great lives. I've had a great.

[Billy]

Like, wouldn't it make them happy to know that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

The dirt that they came from, somehow we end up in nice houses and.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

I mean, your father was a bus driver. That's.

[Chazz Palminteri]

My father was a bus driver.

[Billy]

Yeah. Right. I mean, that's. That's right there in the American middle. Right. You know.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, lower than the middle. I mean, my father didn't make. We didn't have much money growing up there. And, you know, there's a line. I say I had a cash in empty soda bottles to buy a half a pound of chopped meat. My father did that.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, we. But they always made sure. But I never felt that we were poor because everybody was like us back then. We were all the same.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But I never felt like we were poor. But my mother and father struggled their whole lives. Not their whole lives. The last 25 years, when I became famous and I and my sisters became very successful, we all helped them. The last 25 years of their life were beautiful. Beautiful.

[Billy]

You know, let's go back to the. The movie now. Now you're. Now you're actually making a real movie with a real budget and a great star. And. And.

I don't. I don't. I. I don't Want to be as trite as talk about that experience, but, like, no, it was great, but I'm more interested in the. In the. You go from literally the guy who. Swifty Lazar is getting fired.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

So now you're on a.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It was pretty amazing, right? I mean, it was pretty amazing. I remember.

[Billy]

And you, by the way, no display. You weren't a young buck at that point. You were.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, I was almost 40.

[Billy]

Yeah. So you've been riding that dream for a while.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I was riding that dream, but I wouldn't give up. I wouldn't give up. I just wouldn't give up, you know, I remember there I was.

It was like the most amazing. I remember the first time it really hit me was when De Niro said, when we had. We went to Europe, I went with him to Europe, and we. We got on a private plane and he said.

I want to go there. You want to come with me? Because we became friends. And I said, yeah. He said, come on, come with me. You know, I'm going to Paris, you know, I said, great, all right, I'll go with you. And we got on a private jet, and it was just him and. Him and me, you know, And I remember as we were flying, you know, he went to sleep on his bed, and then there was a bed there, and I. And I went to. I laid in bed, and in the middle of the night, I remember I leaned over and I looked, and he was sleeping. And I was like, what the.

Not too long ago, I was like, trying to get water for my car, and. And I was really. Even though. I mean, I was known as somewhat in the business as a really good actor, but I wasn't famous at all. And now my life is changing, you know?

[Billy]

Yeah. I mean, you could have been a character actor.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Absolutely.

[Billy]

Forever.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Forever. And I got up, I remember, in the middle of the night, because I was hungry, and I. And there was a butler there. And he was just sitting there reading. He couldn't sleep because he only read in case we needed something.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And I didn't know. It's the first time I was on a private jet. And I just said, do you have any, like, you have any potato chips or finger food? You know, I was hungry. And he said, oh, Mr. Palm Terry, you want breakfast? And I went, breakfast? And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, he said, wait, I'll make you make the table. He made the table and cloth. He put a rose on it. I'm like, what the.

And I. I get up, I sit behind the table. Billy. And he goes, I make you some eggs and French toast. And I went, yeah, okay. And I had eggs and fresh toast and anything else. And I said, no, I'm good. He said, okay. I finished. I got up. He said, no, no, I'll take care of her. And I went back to bed. And I was like, wow.

[Billy]

Oh, you get used to it real fast, though.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You get used to it. See, my son always said that. He goes, dad, he doesn't know, you know how it is. Yeah. I'm sure for you, too. You know, you're used to a certain way you'd be treated.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You don't. You're always nice to people, but you're used to not waiting for. You know, you're used to certain things. My son always goes, dad, do you pay people to do everything for you? And I go, yes. He goes, can't you do it yourself? I go, no, I guess I could, but I don't want to do it myself. See what I mean?

[Billy]

He knows my son. I have a son, he's almost 10, and he's my eldest. And I was driving one day, and he said, dad, can I ask you a question? He always says, can I ask you a question first? Always? And I said, sure. And he goes, so if, you know, buying me a toy makes me happy, and you can afford to buy me a toy every day, why don't you buy me a toy every day? Wow. I thought, what a beautiful question.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Beautiful question.

[Billy]

And I said, well, that's true. I could buy you a toy every day and not even sweat the money.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

And I said, but the thing is, I want you to understand that Daddy didn't grow up like that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

And I don't want you to lose perspective.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

On what this all costs. Because when I go away on tour and when Daddy's in the studio all day or whatever, that's the cost of that. And if you don't understand that, you won't really understand what this is all about.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right? That's right.

[Billy]

And, you know, I'm sure you've seen it. We've all been around the children of famous people who are like, whoa, yeah, yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And my. Thank God, Knock on wood.

[Billy]

Your children seem all right.

[Chazz Palminteri]

My kids are like, look, automatically they're going to be spoiled, Bill, no matter what you think, your child is 10, mine is 30. They get spoiled just from being around us. They do, but you just don't want it over the top. My son would say, dad, why can't I? When he was like, 10, 11, why can't I have that? I would say, it's too expensive.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And he would say, oh, but he was a real slicker. He was like, I guess we can't afford it. And I said, no, I can't afford it. But I'm not buying it because it's too expensive.

[Billy]

Yeah. So your parents did see the film when it came out?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, my parents saw all my success, you know, and it was actually, you know, I wrote the play, then I wrote the movie, then I wrote the musical.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You know, and all three were very successful. And it's been.

[Billy]

How did the. How did the old neighborhood take it when it came out?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Which one?

[Billy]

The movie?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah, the movie. Oh, they loved it. They all loved it. I mean, they. People just loved it. As long as I changed the names.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

The only name I didn't change was Eddie Mush. Because that was Eddie Mush.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That was the real Eddie Mush in the movie.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

So I didn't change his name because.

[Billy]

What a great name.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That was. His name.

[Billy]

I mean. Wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

So correct me if I'm wrong.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

The wise guy that Sonny is based on.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

Was Big John. Is that true or did I read that wrong?

[Chazz Palminteri]

John. What?

[Billy]

I just.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, that's not him. That's wrong.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That was.

[Billy]

Have you ever said who?

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, never.

[Billy]

You never said who Sonny's based on? Okay. I read it somewhere, so that's why I asked.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. No, I saw that article. No, that's. I know that. John. I forgot.

[Billy]

John Something.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah, yeah. No, some base.

[Billy]

Okay. Without revealing any names, did. Did the. Did the family of that guy or did that guy ever kind of come back around and say, I see what you did there? And I liked it. I didn't like it. Or was any offense taken? Or was.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, no offense was taken as long as I didn't use the name.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I was told that from the very beginning, because in the. I shouldn't say that. Wait a minute. In the very beginning, I had some real names in it. And then I got a phone call from somebody. From somebody, and he said, I know you're doing this play. It was right away, too. Like, after about as soon as it hit, after about two, three weeks.

I got a phone call saying, you know, certain people, they heard about this, yada, yada. I hope. I was like, I hope you're not using any real names. And I was like. I took it as don't use the names. So I said, no. I said, I got some in, but I'm going to take them Out. And I took them out.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

They were nice about it, but nobody.

[Billy]

Ever sort of came back and said, like, gave their own take on it.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No. Oh no. I remember when they saw it, when I first did it, and they saw it in New York and a lot of them sat in the very first rows. You know, they just sat there like this and it's very funny show. And they laughed, they smiled, but they weren't laughing, laughing. And then they wanted to come backstage and I was like, oh. And they came backstage and they said they loved it. Yeah.

[Billy]

Cause when I started telling my father's passed away, but towards the end of my father's life, I started telling some of the stories that I'd never told. I told one on Joe Rogan.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

About finding a shotgun under his bed. The quick version of the story was my father was a musician and I was told I could look at his guitars, but I couldn't touch them. I noticed a new case under the bed. I go under the bed, I flip the case open and it's a double barrel shotgun. Wow. And I told this story on Joe Rogan. And about a month later, my father must have seen the episode and he texted me and said, I saw what you said on Joe Rogan. And I thought, oh, he's going to. It's hot. That I gave away this one of these stories. And I'm waiting, you know, you're waiting for the text to come back. And he goes, you got something about that story wrong. And I'm saying, okay, I'm waiting, waiting for the text. He goes, the shotgun wasn't loaded. So he didn't refute that I found a shotgun. He just said it wasn't loaded.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Nah, I don't buy it. I don't believe him.

[Billy]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Because what I didn't tell, or maybe I did, it was like in other parts of the bedroom, there was another five or six guns up on the shelf. And there was. There was always drugs everywhere. There was always people knocking on the house in the middle night coming for God knows what.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. See, well, because my father was a law abiding guy, but they were Sicilian, so they were.

My grandmother and my mother. A quick story. Sure. Please, very quick. And that is, my grandmother once asked me, she said, I need some ice cubes. Give me some ice cubes. And because they lived below us, the apartment below us, and I went over and I opened up the refrigerator and at that time they had the ice cubes where you had to pull the Thing to get the ice cube, and.

[Billy]

It would never work. It was always stuck.

[Chazz Palminteri]

So I went to pull it. She goes, no, don't touch that one. And I said, what's the matter, Grandma? She goes, no, no, not that one. Get that one there. And I looked at the ice cube. I said, what the. Why can't I use this one? And I looked and I just rolled pieces of paper coming out from the ice. I said, and then I just used the one. I didn't say nothing. So when I went upstairs to see my mother, I said, mom, I said I was getting some ice out of grandma's thing, and I saw. I went to get the ice with the pieces of. She goes, you didn't touch that, did you? I said, no, no. Grandma told me not to touch. I go, what is that? She goes, my father. Her father, my grandfather, when he didn't like somebody, he'd freeze them. He would write their name and he would put it in the ice cube and he would freeze them. In other words, it was a vendetta. So their life was frozen. They could never go anywhere ahead. They could never get another promotion, success. Nothing could ever happen to them. And there was all these papers and all the.

[Billy]

And I was like, holy, that's some old country.

Just a quick thing back on. Let's, let's. It's not verses, but Sonny on one side and Lorenzo on the other.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

You know, because you've done this play 10, 61 times of our taping today.

Have you changed in your perspective of the character? Because when you wrote them, you were a younger man.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, that's a question I get asked a lot.

[Billy]

Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, I get that question.

[Billy]

I try not to ask questions that people ask.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, that's the first one that you asked that. Yes. And the big perspective was when I first did it, I wasn't married and I had no children. So when I first did it, I related more from the boy to the father.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

When I would do the show and I was talking as the young nine year old, it was always like me as this little boy talking to my father. But then when I became a father and my son was born, I started to relate more to the father, to the son, to the boy. And the play just became better because both characters were really rich because I was a father and I was a young boy.

[Billy]

And has your perspective on the Sonny character obviously based on real things? Not totally, but has that changed?

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, no, not really. No. Sometimes it gets mixed where.

When I do. When I do Sonny, I go, it's almost like I'm talking as Chaz and Sonny, you know, as an adult. And then I adopted. I adopted Sonny's philosophy myself, you know.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because he had a very street philosophy that was. That was really good. He's the one who told me about Machiavelli, you know, and that's when I started reading Machiavelli. And as I got older, I started really reading it and I started studying Machiavelli and reading it.

[Billy]

Because we've all known that guy. You would say to yourself, I'm not saying you tell me, but this is my impression. We've all known that guy say, man, if that guy had only put himself in business.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, definitely.

[Billy]

Like, this was a genius. Yeah, but he's a genius. Crime.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's crime. Yeah, but if he. But if he could really adapt himself, he'd be a great CEO. He was a great. Because he was fun. He was smart, but he had the things that mafia dons crave for. Smart, cunning, but. And big balls. So he had everything.

[Billy]

Yeah. I told my daddy once, I said, you know, you made a poor. There's a reason you made a poor criminal. And he said, why is that? And I said, you just didn't have the nerve.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

Guys like that, they. Instead of going into the mafia, they take those guys and they put them in like, you know, Navy SEALs or like. Like CIA, you know, smart and big balls. Those guys are hard to find.

[Billy]

Yeah.

Coming off the success of the movie, and it was box office success, and it was certainly a critical success, and now it's a cult classic. Was. I see you call it classic? I mean.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Ruined.

[Billy]

Did you. Were you more drawn at that moment in your life to. To pursuing being a screenwriter and a. Basically a creator type, or did you want to sort of balance it against your acting?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Both. I want you to balance it. Yes.

[Billy]

But was the idea to sort of personalize projects since you'd already done that?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

I know you made a movie with Cher.

[Chazz Palminteri]

With Cher, yes, I wrote that and I wrote other plays and I wrote. I did a lot of rewriting for movies.

[Billy]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah, I was always good. I was good at, like. I'm just good at looking at a script and knowing what's wrong with it.

[Billy]

Yeah. But in terms of your own. Because Faithful has an interesting setup, you know, another kind of mob related type of thing. Yes, but it wasn't a success at the box office.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It wasn't. No.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

No, but it's. It's a Success as a play.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's done all over the world. Yeah.

[Billy]

Was it a play before the movie?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

I couldn't find any information on that, by the way. Yes, I looked and looked and looked at it.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It was a play in la.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

So same setup. You got the play going.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Same setup. Exactly the same.

[Billy]

Oh, okay. So it's still working as a play. Interesting.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Different spots. Yeah.

[Billy]

No, I get that, but I'm. But I'm saying is, I was just trying to understand because I'm always interested in why people make certain decisions.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

And sometimes, you know, like in the case of Swifty Lazar.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

He gets you fired. You make a decision and it changes your life, you know, but on, you know, because. Did you ever get another movie made as a screenwriter, as your own? Like your own project?

[Chazz Palminteri]

My own. No.

[Billy]

What did they. You must have gone forward with other ideas. And did they?

[Chazz Palminteri]

I. Did I sell other movies? Yes.

[Billy]

Oh, you sold stuff. And then they just didn't get made.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I didn't get made.

[Billy]

Oh, did they give you Good. What were the reasons why? Or just typical Hollywood stuff?

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's just I've sold stuff, I made a lot of money, but it doesn't get made. Huh. It's really hard to get a movie made.

[Billy]

Absolutely.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It is. So people don't realize to get a movie made is like, oh, my God. Yeah, you could sell. There's actors, there's writers in Hollywood that have been there for 25 years, never got a movie made.

[Billy]

Yeah. Yeah. I knew a producer once, and I said, I got this idea for a movie. And so she said, oh, come on in. Have a meeting with me and just pitch me. Like, that's all I do all day, is people pitch me.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Pitch. Yeah.

[Billy]

And within 10 minutes of me rattling away, I could just see her doing the math in her brain. I thought I got no shot. I could just see it dying right as I was talking.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

Because I was in.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, I've done that.

[Billy]

No, but the beautiful thing is, because I was in her office, I saw the movie through her eyes, not mine. Yes, in my eyes. It was beautiful, and it was amazing and cool and. And she's sitting there thinking, I can't get this thing made.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Billy]

You know what I mean?

[Chazz Palminteri]

And the more artsy it is.

[Billy]

Oh, forget about. Forget about it.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Get out. I remember once I pitched a thing with my friend, a great writer friend of mine, Tony Spirakis, who's a wonderful writer.

[Billy]

There's a name.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Yeah. A great guy. And he's the only, he's the only person I could ever write with. I wrote, I mostly write alone, but I, I, I was right with him. But we got a couple some movies made, and I remember we pitched another movie to a very big agent. And I mean, five minutes into it, Tony just looks at him and says, you hate it, right? And he went, yeah. We said, okay. And we just got up and we walked out. I'll never forget that. He went, yeah, yeah, I hate it. And we went, okay, yeah, I guess that's it. And we got up and we left.

[Billy]

When you, when you, because, you know, we know how Holly works. You, you become the guy. You know what I mean?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Sure, yeah.

[Billy]

When, when our mutual friend Chuck LaBella, who books the show, mentions you. He, he said your name and your name didn't register in my brain.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Sure.

[Billy]

Just an unjust name. And, and, and then he sent a picture of you and I was like, oh, I know him.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right. You know what I mean? Sure, of course.

[Billy]

You know, it's like Andrew Dice Clay always says, the face, it's the face.

[Chazz Palminteri]

The face, it's the face. Right.

[Billy]

Did you, did. Were you okay with being typecast? Some people get fussy about that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I wasn't fussy about it, but, you know, look, I get typecast as the, as the Mafia guy or the cop or the tough guy. But I've played other roles. Yeah, that. Usual Suspects. I played the agent. You know, it was a great movie.

[Billy]

What's the, what's the role that you've played that was the furthest away from the, these kind of typecast roles that you thought. Okay, this is interesting.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, wow, that's a real good question. The furthest away.

[Billy]

I, I, I, Nothing comes to mind.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Nothing. I played a Jewish guy in a movie called.

One Let Once Would Feeling. I think I played a Jewish guy, but, and he was kind of a, you know, quiet kind of guy. Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Billy]

That's very different than personality.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. Guy to Recognizing his sayings was different.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

I saw something you said where you said, I tell my kids all the time. Or this is. I think it was. If I want my kids to know anything, I'm probably paraphrasing, but it was. Time is precious.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

Can you dive into that a bit?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Well, I always. Look, you don't know you're old until you're old.

[Billy]

Can I quote you on?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. I mean, I always used to say that, you know, you don't know you're older till you're old.

[Billy]

Yeah. You wake up one day and you're like, wow.

[Chazz Palminteri]

All of a sudden, you look in the mirror and you go, fuck. I look like my father? That, too, you know, and these certain things that you just feel. And I go, you know, it's a cliche, Billy. I wish I knew then what I know now. Everybody says that, you know, youth is.

[Billy]

Wasted on the young.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Youth is wasted on the young. You know, Bernard Shaw said that. So. So I tell my son, listen to me. Listen. Listen carefully. Don't waste this time. And you know what? And I. He does exactly what I would have done. What I did. Yeah, yeah. Dad, dad, please. I got it, I got it, I got it. I go, no.

[Billy]

And both your kids have gone in the arts.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes, yes, they both really. Thank God. They're very, very.

[Billy]

In your mind, was that a natural inclination that they just both had?

[Chazz Palminteri]

They just wanted to do it, you know, My son, you know.

Was in a rock band and he loved to act. He was in school plays. And I said, look, if you get into, like, great schools, then you, you know, you could do it. And my son got into Berkeley, in Boston, at School of Music, you know, singer, songwriter, and studied acting at a great school. My daughter got into University of Michigan, another great school. They only took, like, 12 girls, and they took her, you know, so they're very talented.

[Billy]

Very.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But, see, people think that you could just put your kids and make them stars. Oh, no, no, no.

[Billy]

The name's only going to get them.

[Chazz Palminteri]

The name will get you maybe a block. I can get you in the door, maybe, and you're on your own. Maybe. I can say, could you see my son? And you know what? Sometimes that's a negative, because they're like this. Oh, Jesus. So now you gotta be twice as good as everybody else.

[Billy]

Absolutely. It's a tough. It's a tough thing.

[Chazz Palminteri]

It's a tough thing. It's a tough. But you know what? I have faith in them. They're very talented, and I try to explain to them it's just a hundred no's and one yes. That's what it is.

[Billy]

I know it's been a while, and I'm sure you've been asked a thousand times, but I'm just curious, more from an emotional point of view.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

If you had your druthers, would you have made a sequel to A Bronx Tale? If you had gotten it your way, with the right budget and the right people, would you have done it? Because I'm sure people waved it in front of your eyes constantly.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Constantly. I just never had a great story after that.

[Billy]

Did you feel that? You just didn't have a good take on it.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I didn't have a good take on it, Bill. I said, okay. So I left the neighborhood, and then I went out and I got into a rock band. What I do believe is I've written a movie and maybe one day I'll make it. It's about a movie, How I made Bronxdale.

[Billy]

That's cool. I like that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That I think maybe people would be interested in.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But I left. I left the neighborhood. I went to college. Oh, who gives up? You know what? The. My first 18 years was like a really unique life.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Chazz Palminteri]

After that, what? I became famous in a movie. Yeah. You know.

[Billy]

Sorry, I'm just trying to read. My poor hand.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. No, it's all right.

My son used to say, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Don't worry about it. Nobody cares.

[Billy]

Is it true you're a Roman Catholic?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

I was raised from Catholic, too, yes. Can you talk a little bit about. Because I saw somewhere where you said I'm very spiritual, but I never know what that means.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I am. I am spiritual. I am. I pray. I pray every day. Look, am I perfect? No. You know. Do I up? Yeah. You know, but I'm. You know, you got to believe that you're a good man. I'm a good man. You know, sometimes you do things that are stupid, and I've done stupid things in my life, but I'm a good man. I try to be a good husband. Am I perfect all the time? Absolutely not. But I'm a good father. I care nothing more than my wife and my children are safe and provided for beyond, no question, more than me.

Am I selfish in real life? Absolutely. That's just from being as thorough all these years. But the reality is, when it gets down to it, nothing's more important than my wife and my children. Nothing.

[Billy]

Amen.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Nothing.

[Billy]

Last thing. And you take it however you want. Because I've seen where you've talked about witnessing this murder when you're a child.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

But it's usually from the perspective of like, it happened, this is what I did. But now that you're older and it's way in the rearview mirror, do you look at that moment differently? Have you evolved on.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah. It's. It's almost like a dream now. Like it never happened. You know, I. I talk about it so much that once in a while I'll think about it. The thing that I think about the most.

The most out of all the things nobody ever asked me that question is when I was Sitting on a stoop. It used to be when I was sitting, when I was young and I would put my hands like this, I would think about it. For some reason when I put my hands like that.

[Billy]

That's the way you were sitting.

[Chazz Palminteri]

That's where I was sitting. And.

When, when the person got shot and he fell, he fell on his left side. So he was looking right at me. And I remember just.

Looking at him.

I looked at Sonny.

And Sonny looked at me. But then kind of Sonny just turned away. And I remember just then looking at him and he was. And I could swore he was looking at me. He might have been dead, but his eyes were on me. Maybe it's my imagination, but I remember that his look at me. And I think that's the one thing that I think about whenever I go back to that moment. And then my father got me by the arm and dragged me up the steps. You gotta come and see the one person show.

[Billy]

I want to.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I hope one day you can.

[Billy]

I'm sad I just missed it when.

[Chazz Palminteri]

I was in Chicago. We'll stay in touch.

[Billy]

I would love that. Yeah. Because it strikes me that.

It'S such a.

Strange isn't the right word. It's such a horrible, dramatic, crazy thing set within the context of the neighborhood. And like I said before, before you even could even imagine what you'd sort of found yourself in the middle of the loss of a life. This guy who on some level I don't know, idolizes in the right word, but he was the neighborhood guy, right?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

You literally saw him take a person's life and now you're in the middle of this thing and here we are talking about how many years later.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yeah.

[Billy]

But what strikes me is that, you know, when we're put in a circumstance where the code of this, of our, of our surroundings determines the way we have to process what happens.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right.

[Billy]

We don't get a say. You know what I'm saying? Because the natural reaction would be you would get up and run away because you were scared. Which is what a normal 9 or 10 year old boy should do.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

When my son sometimes has a fear reaction as a 9 or 10 year old boy, sometimes that old programming kicks in. I think, ah, you know, he shouldn't be such a baby about it.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Yes.

[Billy]

And, and I find myself sitting him down and telling him, no, it's, it's good that you cried. It's good that you were scared. The lessons, the lessons we were taught weren't necessarily the best lessons.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Right. I agree with that. But I do, and you might disagree with me on this one because my wife was a little nervous in the beginning. I. My father, My grandfather. My father and his grandfather, we came from a family of boxers, so I knew how to box really well. And I taught my son as a little boy.

[Billy]

Who was your boxing guy? Who did you look up to as a boxer?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, Sugar Ray Robinson. To me, he was, like the most beautiful. My father loved him, and I thought he was the most perfect fighter. And I boxed and I taught my son when he was three, four years old, I used to go jib, jib right here. And now my son is. He says, I'm not that great. My son is really good with his hands. And then he still boxes. We still train together. And then he became Jiu jitsu, and he does that. So I believe a young boy should learn how to fight.

[Billy]

Okay?

[Chazz Palminteri]

I really do. I believe any father, and this is only my opinion, should teach a young boy how to fight. Not to get in fights.

[Billy]

To stay out of fights.

[Chazz Palminteri]

To stay out of fights. Yeah. I think that's important because it gives them confidence. And they're going to be bullied. They're just going to be bullied. That's just the way it is. They're going to be bullied. So whether it's karate, judo, boxing, something, they should learn how to fight.

[Billy]

It's funny you bring up boxing, because for whatever reason, I've gone down the boxing rabbit hole recently on YouTube, and I'm watching these old fights.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, yeah.

[Billy]

And I wandered into what I guess was towards the end of Sugar Ray's boxing career, where he retires, and then he comes back for one fight, but then he finds out he owes the government, like, $500,000. So he ends up fighting Rocky Marciano.

[Chazz Palminteri]

But, yeah, before Sugar Ray Robinson.

Came back to fight, he was 128 and 1. It was a joke. He was the greatest. He could have been. No, he still is the greatest fighter.

[Billy]

But can you tell me, because I'm interested in this, why, to you, is he the greatest fighter?

[Chazz Palminteri]

Because he was the. He could do everything. He had great combinations. He was fast. He had an incredible chin. He just. He had everything. He could box. He could punch.

[Billy]

Oh, you know what I'm confusing with Joe Louis. That's my.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Oh, Joe. No, Joe Lewis was a great fighter. Joe Lewis fought Marciano.

[Billy]

That's my mistake.

[Chazz Palminteri]

And Joe Louis was another great fighter.

[Billy]

Yes. I haven't gone down the Sugar Ray.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Rob, but to me, if you look at old Sugar Ray Robinson, okay, I'M.

[Billy]

Going to take you up on that.

[Chazz Palminteri]

You will. You will see.

[Billy]

Yeah, I know I got confused in the names, but the, the tragedy with that was Joe Louis ended up owing all this money to the government. So he ended up fighting Marciano. Marciano before the fight said he didn't want to fight him.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Marciano felt terrible. Felt terrible that he knocked him out. He felt terrible and it's a shame too because the government, all he did was. He was in the army. He did war bonds. He raised millions of dollars for the government. Then they do that to him. It was not nice. I don't think that was a good one.

[Billy]

I'm going to take you up on Sugar Ray Robinson. I need to go down that the.

[Chazz Palminteri]

Greatest fighter that ever lived. No question. Check him out. All right, Bill.

[Billy]

God bless. Thank you.

[Chazz Palminteri]

God bless, man. Thank you.