Podcast Summary: The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Devo | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Date: September 10, 2025

Overview

In this vibrant, insightful episode, Billy Corgan sits down for a deep-dive conversation with Devo’s Mark and Bob Mothersbaugh—two pioneers of experimental rock and cultural subversion. Set in a live setting at Madam Zoo, the discussion traverses Devo’s origins, their landmark SNL appearance, philosophical foundations including de-evolution and Dada, their complex dance with music industry machinery, and the enduring legacy (and contemporary relevance) of Devo’s socio-cultural critique.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The SNL Performance and Cultural Impact

• Billy begins by recounting Devo’s pivotal Saturday Night Live (SNL) performance (October 17, 1978)—a watershed moment that brought Devo into American living rooms and sent shockwaves through popular culture.
  • [02:00] Billy: “You played two songs, Satisfaction and Jocko Homo...my father howling with laughter and glee from the other room...he pointed at the TV and said, ‘you have to watch this.’”
  • The appearance changed Devo’s fortunes overnight, bumping their venue sizes and broadening their reach.
  • [04:39] Mark Mothersbaugh: “Pretty much overnight, yeah [we felt the effect].”
  • [05:21] Mark Mothersbaugh: “That night, all the young kids who were too young to go out and have dates or whatever…they were watching Devo.”
• Polarization: Devo instantly split audiences into lovers and haters—radio largely rejected them; hipsters latched on.
  • [06:31] Mark: “At that time, the thumbnail was that we didn’t see evidence of evolution. We saw massive evidence of de-evolution in the culture.”

The Philosophy of De-Evolution

• Devo’s concept of de-evolution—society regressing rather than progressing—was more than a gimmick, it was a guiding philosophy.
  • [06:31] Mark: “People less able to think logically, critically, more...pronounced ability to spout slogans back at you that they learned. And mass conformity that we were warning against.”
  • [07:13] Bob: “Well, we were hoping we were just paranoid, but it hasn’t turned out that way.”
• Artistic Influences: Dada, Futurism, Technology
  • The band drew inspiration from Dada, European avant-garde, and American pop-art thinkers like Warhol.
  • [08:43] Bob: “…even the outfits in Ballet Mécanique were geometric...we were drawing, you know, like geometric shaped outfits [for the band].”

Subversion vs. Nostalgia

• Devo’s goal was not to restore an idealized American past, but to subvert and challenge it.
  • [09:23] Mark: “We were trying to subvert in a creative way. Our whole existence was a creative response to horror and trauma. That’s really what it was. And we were just anti stupid, okay?”
  • [10:20] Bob: “We wanted to work in all the mediums,” highlighting Devo’s early embrace of video art and synthesizers.

The Music Industry, Management, and Corporate Culture

• Neil Young and Elliott Roberts:
  • Neil Young introduced Devo to manager Elliott Roberts, leading to key career leaps including the SNL slot.
  • [19:15] Mark: “He [Neil] introduced us and said…I know you’ve had bad experiences…meet my man.”
• Elliott Roberts' Legacy:
  • Warm memories but frank criticism—his style was a mismatch, solved with the addition of Bill Gerber.
  • [20:27] Mark: “We liked him as a person, but his management style was very ineffective...Bill Gerber turned everything around.”
• MTV and the Visual Turn:
  • The advent of MTV brought new challenges for bands—videos became mandatory and expensive, labels gained new leverage.
  • [43:01] Bob: “It just made it really nasty...By the time we did our third one...we had Whip It...but after the early ‘80s...if you were in a band, you had to have a single that was also a video.”
  • MTV’s business model forced artists to supply content for free, shifting industry power.

Collaborative Process & Band Cohesion

• Devo’s internal cohesion was exceptional—decisions and art originated through organic, collective, often basement-level, collaboration.
  • [17:47] Mark: “We were all on the same page as people like to say, and we wanted the same thing...worked together in a collaborative way.”
  • Billy finds this unusual: “Very few bands I can think of that are all in the same direction at the same time.” [18:36]

Working with Bowie and Eno

• The legendary partnership with Brian Eno and David Bowie brought friction as Devo was highly self-assured.
  • [46:34] Bob: “…people like Brian Eno, I’ve heard him say they were the hardest band I ever tried to produce. They were too intense.”
  • [47:58] Bob: Anecdote about “turning down” Eno and Bowie’s surprise production additions at the mix stage.
  • [49:28] Mark: Eno’s “Oblique Strategies” vs. Devo’s Dada irreverence—Mark and Bob acknowledge they sometimes unintentionally offended Eno.

The Personal Touch: General Boy and Family

• Devo’s iconography included characters like “General Boy”—a role filled by Mark and Bob's real-life father, adding layers of satire and authenticity.
  • [38:04] Bob: “General Boy. Yeah…that was totally an accident, too. We didn’t really set out to hire him, but then it turned out that he had closet aspirations...”
  • [39:34] Bob: “Oh, Jerry wrote most of his dialogue. But then he started contributing.”

Coping With Success, The Machine, and Legacy

• The conversation addresses the inevitable clash between subversive intent and music-industry commodification.
  • [54:12] Billy: “There’s the kind of—the funny, like, okay, I guess we’re in the machine now. And then there’s the day you wake up…‘now I’m stuck in the machine and I can’t get out of the machine.’”
  • [55:27] Bob retells the record-industry shift post-“Whip It”: “They said, ‘whatever you do, do another Whip It.’ And we’re like, well, we never thought about music that way.”
  • The emotional honesty of the band (“Jerry broke down in tears…inconsolable...”) captures the toll of major-label expectations.

On Contemporary Culture, Technology, & AI

• The digitization and democratization of music is a double-edged sword: more opportunities for artists, but the same old problems of content saturation and corporatization.
  • [31:04] Bob: “On a phone, little kids have…better technology than the Beatles...”
  • [31:37] Bob: “...if you’re doing music because you love it, there’s a lot more people doing that now...I think that’s great.”
  • [63:32] Mark: “Right now, there’s nothing more Devo than AI music because you just hear all these cliches being mishmashed together.”
• Devo sees AI as a new wave of both potential novelty and continuing challenge to authentic human agency.
  • [65:07] Mark: “I just haven’t heard the AI written hit yet. But what happens when we do?”

Lasting Influence, Vindication, and the “Freedom Example”

• Billy reflects Devo back to themselves as a “living example of what freedom actually looks like.”
  • [32:51] Billy: "At some point it becomes like this is the living example of what freedom actually looks like."
  • Mark responds: “There you go.” [32:51]
• The band is recognized as generational connectors—new-wave’s Grateful Dead.
  • [59:03] Mark: “Only because recently, when we play, there are three generations of people out there...So we are the new wave Grateful Dead.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On SNL Performance:
  • [03:01] Bob: “The most common story we get is I watched you guys on Saturday Night Live and it scared the—out of me.”
  • [05:21] Mark: “That night, all the young kids who were too young to go out and have dates...they were watching Devo.”
• On De-Evolution and Society:
  • [06:31] Mark: “We didn’t see evidence of evolution. We saw massive evidence of de-evolution in the culture.”
  • [07:10] Billy: "What’s frightening is not only were you right…the trend line has continued."
  • [07:13] Bob: “Well, we were hoping we were just paranoid, but it hasn’t turned out that way.”
• Band’s Philosophy:
  • [09:23] Mark: “We were trying to subvert in a creative way. Our whole existence was a creative response to horror and trauma.”
• On Industry Mechanics:
  • [43:01] Bob: “It just made it really nasty...you had to have a single that was also a video...if they [MTV] didn’t program it...that was it.”
• Artistic Integrity Amidst Industry Pressure:
  • [55:27] Bob: “Whatever you do, do another Whip It...we never thought about music that way.”
• On AI, Technology, & Music:
  • [63:32] Mark: “There’s nothing more Devo than AI music because you just hear all these cliches being mishmashed together.”
  • [64:54] Mark: “Sounds like it. I am [still endorsing human agency].”
• On Lasting Validation:
  • [60:49] Mark: “Vindicate is good.”
  • [32:51] Billy: “At some point it becomes like this is the living example of what freedom actually looks like.”
• Billy Corgan’s Hall of Fame Speech Link:
  • [67:17] Billy: “One of the biggest, or probably maybe the biggest album of all time in Dark Side of the Moon wasn’t voiced for radio…And thank God I had bands like you to say, no, there is…this other way…”

Important Timestamps (selected for depth and turning points)

• [02:00] — SNL moment and its fallout on Devo’s reach
• [06:31] — De-evolution philosophy distilled
• [08:43] — Dada, Ballet Mécanique, outfits
• [19:15] — Neil Young introduces Elliott Roberts
• [25:57] — Stories about recommending bands to Elliott (Human League, Residents)
• [29:35] — Perspective on corporatization of music, double-edged irony
• [38:04] — General Boy’s (their father) accidental role initiation
• [46:34] — The Brian Eno/Bowie "production wars"
• [55:27] — The “Whip It” pivot with the record label
• [63:32] — AI and the future of creative music
• [67:17] — Corgan’s “the thing that should not be” reflection (meta on Devo’s improbable success)
• [68:21] — Mark: “We need somebody with a hillbilly voice as if they’re in Deliverance to go, ‘Devo, you should not be. But you are.’”

Final Thoughts

The episode is a rare cross-generational forum—Billy Corgan, an icon in his own right, drawing out Devo’s radical intentions, trial-by-fire industry lessons, and continued relevance with humor and warmth. The group reflects on the irony of fighting cultural “de-evolution,” only to see their cautionary art become reality, yet also points to a continued spirit of innovation and sincerity.

For listeners:
Devo’s journey is more than musical—it is a philosophical case study in subverting norms, staying sincere, and embracing collective creativity in the face of systemic inertia. The episode leaves with a sense of vindication and inspiration—the “thing that should not be”—remains a blueprint for artistic freedom.