Filmmaker & Composer John Carpenter | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Filmmaker & Composer John Carpenter

Release Date: June 24, 2026

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Overview

In this engaging and wide-ranging episode, Billy Corgan sits down with legendary filmmaker and composer John Carpenter to discuss the concept of the auteur, Carpenter’s storied career in film and music, the evolution of Hollywood, the joy and challenge of creative control, and unexpected deep dives into professional wrestling, nostalgia, and what it means to be responsible for “scaring a generation.” Their candid conversation blends humor, thoughtful reflection, and a playful rivalry over the scariest movie ever made.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Authorship and Control in Film

• Defining the Auteur

  • John Carpenter: “Just somebody in control. And that’s a lot of people want to be in control. But when you’re a movie director in Hollywood, you want to maintain control because that’s your movie.” [02:07]
  • Cites Sergio Leone as a director who lost control: “The studio started cutting it. He said, it’s no longer my film. ... It’s somebody who paints with movies.” [02:42]

• Influence of Classic Directors

  • Speak about the inspiration drawn from Howard Hawks, John Ford, Hitchcock — Carpenter notes these were “guys who stood out. They had a vision. This is them. On screen. And I really responded to that.” [03:22–03:40]

• Carpenter's Own Vision

  • Coyly sidesteps specifics: "It’s kind of a melange, but I have no clue ... I just do it.” [04:02]
  • Asserts a personal stamp: “I fought my way ... of having control of my own movies.” [04:17]

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2. Surviving and Shaping the Movie Industry

• Initial Impressions of the Business

  • Early memories of Nashville’s music scene through his father, and Roy Orbison studio anecdotes. [05:07]
  • Film business unchanged at its core: “If you make money, they love you ... If you don’t, get out. And it’s never changed.” [06:05]

• Shifts in Industry Dynamics

  • 1970s: “They started experimenting with the content ... a lot of rebellious going on. ... But it went back to traditional stories and such, but was filled with pirates who loved young filmmakers to take advantage.” [07:05–07:44]

• Aspirations and Career Start

  • “I wanted to be a professional director. That’s what I wanted since I was 8 years old ... I got to live it.” [07:56]

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3. Wrestling: Business, Pain, and Parallels to Filmmaking

• Corgan’s Wrestling Journey

  • Describes independent wrestling and the rise of stars like CM Punk. [09:16]
  • Draws parallels between wrestling and the music business: struggle, ambition, and the need to protect authenticity.
  • “In the business, we know who the real shooters are ... those are the ones people are really [afraid of].” [13:44]

• Safety and Culture in Wrestling vs. Filmmaking

  • “In wrestling, the promoter is ... the man. You get out there and ... you don’t work, you don’t work.” [18:17]
  • Corgan insists on safety: “All chair shots need to be cleared by me ... if they are going anywhere near the head, they need to be protected.” [18:51]
  • Carpenter: “Some of those holds ... could cripple you if they are put on right.” [20:06]

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4. The Creative Process: Directing, Patience, and Music

• On Directing

  • Carpenter likens finishing a film to “playing God”: “The thing that I love the most ... is when they're finished and they're done, I don’t have to think about them anymore. ... I can see my mistakes ... it’s horrible.” [21:55–22:23]
  • Discusses the importance of maintaining vision through each phase of production: “Don’t forget what we’re doing. Go back in your head to that. What do you need here in this scene?” [21:10–21:33]

• Hollywood Control and Pushback

  • “I started with independent filmmaking ... nobody else was in charge but me ... my first two films.” [23:26]
  • The ambiguous ending of The Thing: “The studio people hate ambiguity ... I just wouldn’t budge.” [24:14]
  • Paid a price: “They fired me from a job and I was in the wilderness, but I won.” [24:27]

• Budget Realities & Smarts

  • “Halloween was $220k ... 20 shoot days.” [25:51]
  • Craftiness and planning as survival tools: “You just have to ... plan it out, figure it out ahead of time.” [26:03]

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5. Horror, Fun, and Cultural Critique

• On Halloween and the Power of Horror

  • Carpenter: “Halloween is designed to make you jump and scream.” [25:25, 28:16]
  • On Michael Myers: “He is a character who has no, really no past. ... The less you know about Michael Myers, the scarier he is to you.” [29:56–30:38]
  • Memorable exchange: Corgan: “That movie scared me off scary movies for the rest of my life.” [01:30, 26:42]
  • Carpenter: “Who let you see that at 11? ... Well then, it worked. ... But I didn’t design my movie with you in mind ... this is all make believe. It’s not real.” [26:47–29:23]

• Scariest Movies — Personal Takes

  • Carpenter picks The Exorcist: “What that little girl turns into. ... The devil has been a character in our ... history for a long time ... a version of the devil, pure evil and possessing you.” [27:31]

• Exploration of Exploitation Films

  • “We showed PJ Soul’s breasts because it was an exploitation film at the time ... I love exploitation films. What’s wrong with them?” [38:25]
  • Pushback on highbrow/lowbrow snobbery: “Critics think that horror is like pornography down there ... people who do that are ugly people. ... But highbrow movies are what you should aspire to.” [39:24]

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6. Synths, Film Scores & Legacy

• Carpenter as Synth Pioneer

  • “When I first heard synths, I thought ... you can sound like something big with keyboards. ... I played bass in a rock and roll band. ... My dad was a music teacher.” [31:26–31:56]
  • Dismisses synth “spirituality”: “Yeah, it is. That’s ridiculous.” [33:48]

• Influences and Working Methods

  • Worked with modular synths and a teacher at USC; “had to tune them up ... I have medium chops. ... My son has great chops. ... So I have to hide with the sounds.” [32:36–33:27]
  • Discussion of the “Lost Themes” series and Cathedral, an album inspired by a dream: “I have a band with my son and godson. ... We’ll release, day and day, an album and a graphic novel of my dream. ... I’m 78 years old and I get this to happen. This is fabulous.” [14:03–14:57]

• Legacy and Recommendation

  • Asked what film to recommend to newcomers: “Watch The Thing. ... Or Halloween, I don’t know. ... But I think that’s it. ... I’m also proud of Cathedral, my new album, which I’m pimping here with you today.” [57:00–57:21]

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7. Hollywood, Systems, and AI

• The Old Studio System

  • “The early guys [in Hollywood] were all riverboat gamblers ... They tried different things.” [52:38–53:02]
  • “Incredible trove of movies that were made ... you had a level of consistent quality that you cannot find in modern filmmaking.” [54:33–54:38]
  • “They gutted the system. ... There are no character actors ... actors in Hollywood are in trouble.” [54:38–54:47]

• AI and Industry Change

  • Uncertainty about AI: “I don’t know enough about it. ... But we’ll see. ... It’s going to wreak havoc on this town.” [54:54–55:39]

• On the Future of Auteurs

  • “Not many. Few here and there. ... Jordan Peele, I think, is pretty great.” [55:52–56:04]
  • “I had my time in it. And I’m really happy about that. I got to live my dream.” [56:19]
  • “Some astonishing. Who would have thought this idiot from Bowling Green could be a director?” [56:28]

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8. Personalities, Influences, and Hollywood’s Disappearance of Nobility

• Lee Van Cleef & Spaghetti Westerns

  • Recollections of Lee Van Cleef as “one of the coolest” and incapable of walking due to an old injury but still projecting strength on film. [45:03–45:29]
  • Anecdotes about Sergio Leone, Fellini, and Morricone: “Morricone knew the theme of my movie before I knew it … a wonderful man ... he put it in his music.” [47:27–48:09]

• On Artistry, Era, and Lost Nobility

  • How classic directors would see today: “They’d scratch their heads and say, what’s happening? That was just so alien to them ... Nobody would care that much. ... I feel that’s true. And it hurt.” [57:45–58:26]
  • The Searchers reference: “That sense of honor within the genre. ... The nobility of the American film when it’s spot on. ... Where’s that gone?” [58:39–59:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Michael Myers & Fear:
  “The less you know about Michael Myers, the scarier he is to you.” – John Carpenter [29:56]

• On Horror’s Value:
  “Critics think that horror is like pornography down there and people who do that are ugly people … But highbrow movies are what you should aspire to.” – John Carpenter [39:24]

• On Synthesizer Spirituality:
  “Yeah, it is. That’s ridiculous.” – John Carpenter (dismissing Moog’s ‘spiritual electricity’ idea) [33:48]

• On Directing’s Fulfillment:
  “The thing that I love the most ... is when they're finished and they're done, I don’t have to think about them anymore.” – John Carpenter [21:55]

• On Creative Industry:
  “If you make money, they love you ... If you don’t, get out. And it’s never changed.” – John Carpenter [06:05]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:07 | Defining "auteur," artistic control | | 07:56 | Carpenter’s childhood dream of directing | | 13:44 | Discussion of “shooters” and authenticity in wrestling | | 18:41 | Safety protocols in wrestling and comparison to film stunts | | 21:12 | Patience and vision in the filmmaking process | | 24:14 | Fight for ambiguity in The Thing | | 25:25 | Halloween’s origins and budget | | 29:56 | Carpenter dissects the horror of Michael Myers | | 38:25 | Embracing exploitation films and subverting the genre hierarchy | | 41:49 | Discussion of dystopia, Escape from New York, and They Live’s politics | | 52:38 | “Riverboat gamblers” in Hollywood | | 54:38 | Character actors and the loss of consistent quality post-studio system | | 57:00 | Films Carpenter is proudest of (The Thing, Halloween), introduction of new album | | 58:26 | Reflections on classic Hollywood and lost nobility |

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Episode Tone & Style

The interplay is warm, wry, and self-effacing, with both Carpenter and Corgan mixing sharp industry insight, nostalgia, and gallows humor (“Old man crying in the darkness”). The conversation fluidly moves between reverence and irreverence, blending admiration for “the greats” with a plainspoken candor about artistic struggle, commerce, and the absurdities of modern Hollywood.

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Summary

Billy Corgan’s conversation with John Carpenter offers a rare, honest, and at times delightfully meandering masterclass on filmmaking, authorship, and maintaining a personal vision in the face of Hollywood’s shifting tides. Punctuated by wit and depth—plus detours into wrestling and music—this episode stands as a testament to Carpenter’s lasting influence and his defiant, joyful spirit as both an artist and a self-proclaimed “old man crying in the darkness.” For Carpenter, it always comes down to this: “Watch The Thing. ... See if it affects you emotionally.” And, as he half-jokingly insists: “I’m also proud of Cathedral, my new album.”

Transcript

[Interviewer]

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[Interviewer]

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[John Carpenter]

Halloween is designed to make you jump and scream.

[Interviewer]

That movie scared me off. The scary movies for the rest of my life.

[John Carpenter]

The less you know about Michael Myers, the scariest, scarier he is to you.

[Interviewer]

Having been on a few sets in my life, I don't know how you do it.

[John Carpenter]

The thing that I love the most about movies is when they're finished, they're done.

[Interviewer]

John Carpenter, thank you very much for being here today.

[John Carpenter]

My pleasure.

[Interviewer]

When I think of you, I think of the word auteur, which is a word we use in America in the arts. But I don't think we really know what it means.

[John Carpenter]

No, no, we don't know what it means.

[Interviewer]

How would you define auteur?

[John Carpenter]

Just somebody in control. And that's a lot of people want to be in control. But when you're a movie director in the hot in Hollywood, in the business, you want to maintain control because that's your movie. Sergio Leone was a famous director and he wanted control and he made a movie called Once Upon a Time. What was it in the West? No, that one. That's one of the greatest movies ever made. The New York movie with Robert De Niro.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay. I Know what you're talking about. Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Anyway, the studio started cutting it. He said, it's no longer my film. So that's. That's what. Yeah, it's. It's somebody who paints with movies.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So in. In doing my research on you, Howard Hawks came up. John Ford came up. Hitchcock, too. All great auteurs. Yeah, I agree with that. What? Uh, you know, sometimes in. We say something in interview and it becomes the truth. But our. Our are men like Hawks and Ford, people you really looked up to from. As directors or as people who are auteurs in the sense of being able to create and control their own world.

[John Carpenter]

When I went to film school at usc, like a lot of guys did, and I saw all their movies, all the classic Hollywood films, and these are the guys who stood out to me. They had a vision. This is what they wanted to do. This is them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

On screen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And I really responded to that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

I thought, that's something I want to do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. Hawks, you know, atmosphere comes to mind for it. Almost like a painter.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like these beautiful, painterly scenes that he would create. But so I thought, what. What would you describe your. Your vision?

[John Carpenter]

Oh, God,

[Interviewer]

it's kind of a melange,

[John Carpenter]

but I have no clue. I have no idea what my vision is. I just do it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But it certainly has a. Has a personal stamp.

[John Carpenter]

It does. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel you. You feel that?

[John Carpenter]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John Carpenter]

And I fought my way, with almost total success, of having control of my own movies.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

A couple of times. No. And. And for various reasons.

[Interviewer]

Isn't it interesting that that auteurs, by and large, drive great commerce, but they're always the ones that are most at odds with the system, that they're.

[John Carpenter]

Yes, it's true. It's really true.

[Interviewer]

When you entered that system, that Hollywood system, I know you kind of came in not, you know, you didn't come in full force. It took time to sort of gain your. I don't know, trust is the right word in that system. What did you. What were your first impressions of the music business that was there before you? Actually, I'd. Sorry, the music business.

[John Carpenter]

Music business.

[Interviewer]

I'm talking my business.

[John Carpenter]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

What were your impressions of the movie business? Because obviously the studio system had long been sort of somewhat dismantled.

[John Carpenter]

Well, I will tell you about the music business. My father was a founding member of the Nashville Strings and he played sessions down in Nashville.

[Interviewer]

I even have Nashville Strings albums, or am I crazy?

[John Carpenter]

There were Nashville albums, and I would go with him when I was young. And I saw Roy Orbison, Brenda Lee and folks like that singing in studio.

[Interviewer]

Is this RCA studio?

[John Carpenter]

I think it was, Yeah, I believe

[Interviewer]

the little one or the big one.

[John Carpenter]

I. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

You know what? It would have been the bigger one. It's almost like a big barn, if you remember.

[John Carpenter]

I. All I remember is looking at these strange people who are singing and thought, what? Roy Orbison wore sunglasses.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[John Carpenter]

And he had a guy who sang harmony with him who wore sunglasses. I thought, what is going on here?

[Interviewer]

It's like something out of your mood.

[John Carpenter]

Well, hey, but the mov. The movie business. You want to talk about them?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, movie business. I love the movie business, even though I know it's a terrible business for many.

[John Carpenter]

Well, you know, I came in late 70s with how I got in was you have to make money. It's. It's all the same stuff. It's all. If you make money, they love you, they think you're great. If you don't, you know, get out, get out. So it's. And it's never changed. It's never changed.

[Interviewer]

But was there a particular.

[John Carpenter]

And it has changed. Sorry, I'm babbling here. It has changed enormously in many ways. But the essential is exactly the same, which is what I'm describing to you. You have to be a golden boy to really succeed. Like Spielberg, he's a kind of the golden boy.

[Interviewer]

Well, he was kind of anointed from the beginning.

[John Carpenter]

He was over Universal. Yeah, but. But the business itself has changed and a great deal.

[Interviewer]

Did you find that there was a particular ethos to the 70s version of the movie business or.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah, it was. They were. They were. They started experimenting with the content of movies in the 60s and that went into the 70s. A lot of rebellious going on. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

Easy Writer. Easy Writer was sort of.

[John Carpenter]

That's correct.

[Interviewer]

The watershed.

[John Carpenter]

That's correct. But, you know, then it sort of went back into traditional stories and such, but was. It was filled with pirates who. Who loved young filmmakers to take advantage of them and take their money.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And that. That's still true.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Did you have a particular aspiration when you were going to film school? Like I want to be. Is there just to be a director or is it. Is there. Was there a vision involved?

[John Carpenter]

Director. I wanted to be a professional director. That's what I wanted to be since I was 8 years old. It was my dream and I got to live it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, dude.

[John Carpenter]

I got living the American dream.

[Interviewer]

You did.

[John Carpenter]

And then when I slowed down, I got into music.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's That's a mistake. You know, once you get into music. Why. No, it's a joke. It's a.

[John Carpenter]

But let's talk about something that's really serious, and that's wrestling.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John Carpenter]

Why the NBA? Nwa?

[Interviewer]

Well, I caught the bug for professional wrestling as a child, but then I walked away as a teen, and then I found myself in my late 20s, drawn into the actual business. Meaning what went on behind the curtain? The idea of tinkering behind the curtain to what actually showed up in the ring really is very tempting to me.

[John Carpenter]

That's what you wanted to do? Yes, so.

[Interviewer]

So I. I worked on the independent scene for a few years. I don't know how much you know about the independent scene, but there's, you know, there's hundreds and hundreds of satellite little companies that run in towns all over America.

[John Carpenter]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Where the, you know, weekend warriors get up and. And they. They hope to be the next Hulk Hogan or Rock Piper. Right, sure. And some actually do make it. They make it, you know, like almost like a band playing in the clubs.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Who.

[John Carpenter]

Who, for instance?

[Interviewer]

Well, one of the biggest stars in the world right now is CM Punk from Chicago, who literally started on the independent scene and worked his way up, and now he's one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling.

[John Carpenter]

Huh, I didn't know that. I don't know him. I'm not familiar with him, but.

[Interviewer]

But I'm saying he would be comparable to. To a. A Rick Rude or even above that level as far as a main event talent. Very unusual, kind of a. One of a kind professional wrestler. Very skilled, great talker, great professional wrestler.

[John Carpenter]

Ah, wow.

[Interviewer]

But he. But if you looked at him, you wouldn't necessarily assume he doesn't sort of fit the classic role of professional wrestling, but he made his name on the independence.

[John Carpenter]

What's his finishing move?

[Interviewer]

Go to sleep. It's a. It's a. You kind of got a guy on your shoulders. Gts, I think they call it. And then when you pull the guy off, you hit him with your knee when he's coming back and he takes the bump like that.

[John Carpenter]

I see. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So I worked on the independent. Kind of learned my ropes. Like.

[John Carpenter]

Did you wrestle ever?

[Interviewer]

No, sir. I got involved.

[John Carpenter]

I just wanted to ask.

[Interviewer]

No, no, you can ask me whatever you want. I did get concussed once. That's an interesting.

[John Carpenter]

Did you really?

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. I took a guitar shot in.

[John Carpenter]

The headshots are bad.

[Interviewer]

Remember the old brick cell phones? They were like. Yes, I took one of those in the back of the Head.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah. Ooh, yeah. Do you see stars floating around?

[Interviewer]

Oh, I saw the flash in the bang and.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah, man.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And then an hour later, I was passing out my soup like this.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So I did that. And then I ended up working for the second biggest company in America at the time, which was called tna.

[John Carpenter]

I know tna. I know who they are.

[Interviewer]

Worked in the front office, was part of the booking committee, started producing segments in the corner with the town at 10am when they were grumpy and they didn't want to talk.

[John Carpenter]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

So I learned how to produce television, caught the bug, had a little bit of success and was kind of held down by some of the people above me.

[John Carpenter]

Jealous, were they?

[Interviewer]

It's like all the arts. It's always. Enmity is rife.

[John Carpenter]

It is.

[Interviewer]

And at some point I ended up running the company, however briefly. And so when I got it, I thought, great, I'm done with professional wrestling. To hell with all you people. And about a month later, somebody called me and said, the NWA is for sale. Do you want it?

[John Carpenter]

Wow. Wow. See, that's a storied franchise. Luthez, that comes to mind. He was. He used to call it a hooker. Somebody who could break your leg.

[Interviewer]

But you know why? But you know why they had the hookers?

[John Carpenter]

Why? Why?

[Interviewer]

Okay, so if you were a travel. If you were a traveling champ.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

John Carpenter's the traveling champ. You're the. You're the NWA champion of the world. You're going into out Abilene, Texas. Okay. And you're going to wrestle one of the Funks. Okay.

[John Carpenter]

I don't know if I.

[Interviewer]

How do you know one of the Funks isn't going to go into business for themselves and decide to pin you legit in the ring?

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And now you're no longer.

[John Carpenter]

You don't know this. Oh, you never know this.

[Interviewer]

So you have to be able to protect yourself.

[John Carpenter]

Well, that's true.

[Interviewer]

So in the 50s, 60s versions, the guys who were shooters, like Fez, like

[John Carpenter]

Vern Gagne, he was.

[Interviewer]

I know that they could protect themselves.

[John Carpenter]

Protect.

[Interviewer]

I have a fantastic story for you if you want to hear it, about Vern Gagne.

[John Carpenter]

Really? Yes.

[Interviewer]

So Verne gagne, in the 50s, when wrestling was on television, mostly coming out of Chicago.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Interviewer]

Okay. The national product in the 50s was coming out of Chicago. So. So people started figuring out that wrestling wasn't real. Right, Right.

[John Carpenter]

And it's real. As to these people, that's their damage for life.

[Interviewer]

Well, you're talking to a lifer over here.

[John Carpenter]

They're putting their bodies out for this.

[Interviewer]

You understand? But here's the thing. So. So the fans start getting restless because they. They're not sure they're watching an authentic product. So the NWA starts recruiting NCAA wrestlers with pedigrees who are real shooters.

[John Carpenter]

So, like, who, Verngagne? Him?

[Interviewer]

So they bring Verne into Chicago. Okay. It's his first day in Chicago. And they said, we have a gimmick for you. You're gonna come down from the ceiling in a spaceship.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, dear.

[Interviewer]

And be a space alien. And Verne said, that's not gonna happen. Okay. I'm gonna go down to the wrestling ring. You send as many people as you want, and I will beat them legitimately in the ring.

[John Carpenter]

There you go. Watch a shooter or hooker, whatever you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, because see, in the business, and I think you'd respect this, we know who the real shooters are.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There might be guys and girls who are great at their job, but we know who the real badasses are. And those are the ones that people are. Really.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. And you don't want to fool them because they'll just take you right out. So.

[Interviewer]

In front of the world.

[John Carpenter]

I love this. This conversation. Let me get my business out of the way here, sir. I had a dream, really strange dream a few years ago, and I have a. A band and with my son and godson. So I talked to them about it, and I said, let's do an album based on this dream. So I wrote the dream out, and then we recorded music to the dream. And then my wife owns a comic book company, so she's doing a graphic novel of my dream. So we will release, day and day, an album and a graphic novel of my dream. Come on now. Come on. I'm 78 years old and I get this to happen. This is fabulous.

[Interviewer]

What's the name of the Cathedral?

[John Carpenter]

Cathedral.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John Carpenter]

And I'm very proud of it and working on others, so that's. I have to get that out. You're a musician, you know, running around, pimping. Pimping your next album.

[Interviewer]

I have bought some of your lost themes.

[John Carpenter]

Good for you. Yes, good for you.

[Interviewer]

I bought them online.

[John Carpenter]

Well, I will take pre orders for Cathedral if you want to put out some cash here. No. Okay.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

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[John Carpenter]

N Anyway, let's get back to wrestling. I've done my job.

[Interviewer]

Okay, back to wrestling with the. With the film business.

[John Carpenter]

I. The last guy I saw was Brett the Hitman hard. And what a nice human being.

[Interviewer]

Very smart guy.

[John Carpenter]

And he was, you know, he looked up to Roddy Piper a great deal. And Roddy had brain damage at the end. Bad, bad. He could. Could barely show up and. Poor guy.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's the CT from all the. All the head trunks.

[John Carpenter]

Well, you know it and they don't forget.

[Interviewer]

Roddy used to do the thing where he would legit bust beer bottles against his.

[John Carpenter]

I do know this. And in the 50s and 60s, they didn't play nice. They didn't do like they do today.

[Interviewer]

No, it was certainly a more rough and tumble business.

[John Carpenter]

Man. Some of that stuff was bad.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

So you seem to just accept that. I have a tough time accepting that.

[Interviewer]

No, we try to run as safe a product as we can.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, you say that. You sound like a businessman.

[Interviewer]

No, no, no, I don't mean it that way. There's no getting around the danger. I know there's no getting around the danger. I mean, you've worked with professional stunt people. There's just a point where it's like what they do is incredibly dangerous.

[John Carpenter]

But the difference is in the movie business, they're in charge. I say, look, the scene involves, you need to fall from up there down here. And they rig it and they do it. And they might come and say, you know what, this is dangerous. This way, let me do it this way. In wrestling, the promoter is the person, is the man. You get out there and we don't work. You don't work.

[Interviewer]

No, sir.

[John Carpenter]

No.

[Interviewer]

I don't want anyone doing anything they don't feel comfortable doing. Not at all. Chair shots, don't do them to the head.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, boy.

[Interviewer]

We don't do unprotected chair shots.

[John Carpenter]

You don't do that.

[Interviewer]

So all chair shots need to be cleared by me. And they, if they have, are they going anywhere near the head? They need to be protected.

[John Carpenter]

Hey, what happens if that all goes, you know, awry, as things do in wrestling matches?

[Interviewer]

Well, then you have, then you have a problem.

[John Carpenter]

And what do you do about that when you find somebody and here's a poor guy has a concussion and you know what that's like.

[Interviewer]

Yes, sir.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. I'm sorry, am I jumping on you too much?

[Interviewer]

No, no, not at all. No. I guess what you have to understand is even though I'm the boss and even though I write the shows and produce the shows out of my own pocket, the real relationship is between the wrestlers themselves.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, it has to be.

[Interviewer]

And so they're a self correcting body. So what you learn as a promoter is you have to let them sort those issues out themselves.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, that's pretty smart.

[Interviewer]

That's the only thing you can do.

[John Carpenter]

Pretty smart.

[Interviewer]

Because there has to be a level of professional courtesy and relatability between the talent. Because what they're doing is so dangerous. This way when people come up to you on the street, say, oh, wrestling's fake, it's like, try it, you know it.

[John Carpenter]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

But I've seen, I've seen guys blow their knees out on the most simple move in the world. Nothing. You wouldn't even, you wouldn't even think twice watching it on television.

[John Carpenter]

Some of those holes, I don't know, the legit holes are, boy, who could cripple you if they are put on. Right.

[Interviewer]

But that's why, you see, that's why you have the shooters. Can't get anything over on them anyway. Okay, back to you.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, dear.

[Interviewer]

I saw something where you talked about how you fell in love with the movie business.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah?

[Interviewer]

Was that a good thing or a bad thing?

[John Carpenter]

Well, I fell in love with directing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

I fell in love with Movies. That's my muse. Is. Is. Is the movies. Cinema.

[Interviewer]

Having been on a few sets in my life, I don't know how you do it because it's. The pace of shooting a major motion picture is so slow.

[John Carpenter]

As opposed to. Sorry. As opposed.

[Interviewer]

Well, opposed to a lot of other things. I mean, like what? In order to. I don't know, I. You tell me. But in order to realize your vision, which is. Which is holistic. As an auteur, that's a lot of patience. That's a lot of time.

[John Carpenter]

That's correct. It is. And you have to. It goes from script to pre production to production to editing in the end, to the music on the film.

[Interviewer]

And in your case, do you even. Doing the music.

[John Carpenter]

All of that. All of that. You have to have patience and you have to remember that vision. That's the thing. Don't lose track of it. Here we are on the set. You know, we've got people who are putting up lights and it's taking a little time. Don't forget what we're doing. Go back in your head to that. What do you need here in this scene?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

You know.

[Interviewer]

So is the satisfaction for you that you've been able to build your own world? World's too large a word. But you know what I'm saying is. Is the satisfaction when you sit back and it's done. You think, okay, that's why I did it. Because I don't know what that feels like. I know what it feels like for an album.

[John Carpenter]

What does it feel like?

[Interviewer]

It's. It's as close to playing God as I've ever felt.

[John Carpenter]

There you go. It is. Same thing. Same exact thing. It's done all great. The thing that I love the most about movies is when they're finished and they're done, I don't have to think about them anymore. I don't have to look at them. I can see my mistakes. I look. Occasionally a movie of mine will be on and I'll watch it and I'll say, what was I thinking? What is that? That's too slow. And I'll start and it's horrible.

[Interviewer]

It occurred to me just in the moment. I saw a line once where Frank Capper was talking. He said, in order to film reality, you have to. It has to be faster on screen. Did you find that as well?

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. Well, yeah, he's right about that. He's a strange character. I'm not sure we should trust everything he says, but he kind of waxed it. Well, he.

[Interviewer]

He. He was one of those ones who kind of rewrote his.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, his history in River.

[John Carpenter]

Huge. Yeah. You have to play everything a little faster, right? Yeah, you do. You have to speed it up. And actors don't like you telling them that.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's funny.

[John Carpenter]

They want to. Well, they're. They're coming in just like wrestlers and they've got their own thing. Don't tell me what to do. Some of them are really.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Tough. Anyway, go ahead.

[Interviewer]

When. When you looked at the. Whatever was the system in place in the. In the 1970s in America?

[John Carpenter]

Huh.

[Interviewer]

Did. Because. Because you had a particular vision, did you think, I. I need to figure out how to work with these people or I'm just going to figure out how to wrestle enough control so I could get my. My way?

[John Carpenter]

Well, that's a good question. Well, I. I never. See, in my case, I started with independent filmmaking with that nobody else was in charge but me. So that was perfect for my first two films and my third film I had. I told whoever I was working for, I want. Here's what I want for my payment. I want complete creative control and my name above the title. You don't have to pay me because I was wanting to work my name and get a name. I wanted to work my way in. But after that, when you're working for a studio. O. O. I made a movie called the Thing, and it had this ambiguous ending and the studio people hate ambiguity, audiences and studios especially. So they came and it was like a revolving door of executives coming in and trying to talk me out of that ending. And I just wouldn't budge.

[Interviewer]

So you won?

[John Carpenter]

Well, I won, but, you know, they fired me from a job and I was in the wilderness, but I won. And so that was the price of my art, if you want to use that word.

[Interviewer]

Well, if it's any small satisfaction, one of the members of my band believes the Thing is the greatest movie ever.

[John Carpenter]

That's very nice. He's a wonderful human being.

[Interviewer]

I will let. I will let him know he said that. And it was one of those things where we were talking about movies one day, sitting around the band campfire.

[John Carpenter]

That's great.

[Interviewer]

And he said the. He said, thinks the Thing is the movie.

[John Carpenter]

And I thought. I thought it was pretty good. I did. I thought it was pretty good.

[Interviewer]

Anyway, when you were. When you were working your way up through that system doing independent, did you ever believe that you get a true big budget because you. You made your way by sort of figuring out how to make things work for small budgets? Uh huh.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever figure, did you get, did you guesstimate that you'd reach a point where you would get it?

[John Carpenter]

Actually I never thought about it. I thought let's get this thing done, maybe somebody will see it and appreciate who's behind the camera. Well, let's get this done. I wasn't thinking about. I had no long term planning except that I'm going to be a director. You know, it's kind of this childish thing, I guess.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because Halloween was 300 grand. Does that sound right?

[John Carpenter]

2.

[Interviewer]

200 grand.

[John Carpenter]

220. I tell we had to pay extra for nominal pleasant.

[Interviewer]

And how many shoot days generally? 20. 20 shoot days.

[John Carpenter]

20 was maybe. Yeah, 20.

[Interviewer]

Wow. You can't even make a music video 20 days.

[John Carpenter]

Sure you can. Sure you can. You just have to, you have to plan it out, you know, figure it out ahead of time. Now when you guys would make a music video, how long would it take?

[Interviewer]

One to three days.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. Okay. And I bet those are intense days, aren't they?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you just wonder about all the money you're spending.

[John Carpenter]

I know, but.

[Interviewer]

Because you know if you shoot in la, you know you got to pay for the cop that's standing there eating the donut.

[John Carpenter]

Well, that's true but you know, it's big city. But we never, we never really. We skirted around those issues. When you're low budget you have to.

[Interviewer]

So. So I, I don't like scary movies and I blame you because.

[John Carpenter]

I'm sorry.

[Interviewer]

No, I saw Halloween when I was about 11 years old and.

[John Carpenter]

Well, you're a child, you shouldn't be watching those kind of movies.

[Interviewer]

Okay, but I'm saying that, that that movie scared me off as scary movies for the rest of my life. But no, no, but I mean as a comic.

[John Carpenter]

Who let you see that at 11? Was it your parents?

[Interviewer]

Well, if you want to get in my history as most years, yeah.

[John Carpenter]

I mean why would, why would a young 11 year old be allowed to see an R rated movie?

[Interviewer]

I have no idea.

[John Carpenter]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But all I can tell you is it scared the bejesus.

[John Carpenter]

Well then it worked. It funny.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but I still to this day, and not that I'm a huge concert, I still think that's the scariest movie ever made.

[John Carpenter]

Exorcist telling you really? I think so. I think so.

[Interviewer]

You want to debate that? Well, so tell me why you think Exorcist is scary.

[John Carpenter]

Oh my God, what that little girl turns into.

[Interviewer]

And then Linda Blair sat in that exact chair.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, and we know I met Linda last year. Last year. She's really terrific person. Anyway, it's what she said. You're walking down that hallway towards the door. You don't know what's behind there, but it's evil behind there. And you know, the devil has been a character in our human's history for a long time. A version of the devil, pure evil and possessing you. And little girl has disfigured and she's turned into a monster.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, that's pretty tough stuff. And it was tough stuff in that movie. I was very impressed with it.

[Interviewer]

It is a great movie.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. So I'm thinking that may be the scariest, but Halloween is designed to make you jump and scream.

[Interviewer]

Well, here's why it was scary to me because we were latchkey kids. So we were home alone. We were home alone a lot.

[John Carpenter]

Oh.

[Interviewer]

So the idea of terror I see, I see coming in from the outside in a way that you cannot navigate the terror. And in my particular circumstance, I was home alone with two younger children overnight. Oftentimes with no adult in the house.

[John Carpenter]

Ooh. Well now.

[Interviewer]

So I re. I.

[John Carpenter]

How much younger than you?

[Interviewer]

What's that?

[John Carpenter]

How much younger?

[Interviewer]

When I would have been about 10 and I would have been with a 8 year old and a baby. So the idea.

[John Carpenter]

Well, dude, I can't help you there.

[Interviewer]

I think that's why it resonated so deeply with you, this idea that if this awful thing walks through the door, there's nothing you can do.

[John Carpenter]

But I didn't design my movie with you in mind because I would have cautioned you. You know, this is all make believe. It's not real. It won't happen to you.

[Interviewer]

I love. I saw a quote where you were talking, they were asking you about. Did know you were making a classic and you said, all I saw was the rubber knife.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. Oh, God, that thing, that thing. People ask me. Well, you didn't show anything because we couldn't. It was rubber.

[Interviewer]

Can you just talk a little bit? You've talked about it before, but I thought it was fascinating. When you talk about the character of Michael Myers, this idea of the blank face and the audience projecting onto that. Can you just talk about that a little bit?

[John Carpenter]

He is a character who has no, really no past. He is nothing. He's neither human nor supernatural. He's both. And we don't know. And that's the thing that is disturbing. We just don't know what it is that drives him. So he's blank and he's kind of unkillable kinda. But maybe he's not. So it's that balance between those things that made him really spooky. So the less you know about Michael Myers, the scariest, scarier he is to you.

[Interviewer]

This. The scene that blew my mind as a kid was. I think it's. Jamie Lee Curtis is sort of panting in foreground. And he's in the back.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, it's. It's up.

[Interviewer]

It's the undertaker spot.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Which undertaker, I think, stole from Michael Myers.

[John Carpenter]

Of course he does. I want my residual for that.

[Interviewer]

It's the ultimate compliment.

[John Carpenter]

It is. Yeah. But that's. That's the idea. The less you know, the scarier he is. And he's Is relentless. You can't stop it.

[Interviewer]

It still scares me thinking about it.

[John Carpenter]

Well, why? Come on.

[Interviewer]

No, it's scary. I'm serious.

[John Carpenter]

Okay. Thank you. That's good.

[Interviewer]

Yes. You got a lot of cred with the music community because of your scores.

[John Carpenter]

Really?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I think your stature in the music community has grown over time as people really appreciate.

[John Carpenter]

Really?

[Interviewer]

They see you as a pioneering synth guy.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. I thought. When I first heard synths, I thought, hey, you can sound like something big with keyboards. You know what I'm saying? You can play violin and whatever. So that's what that's.

[Interviewer]

But you had a natural knack for it.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, I played bass in a rock and roll band when I was in.

[Interviewer]

Yes. She at least had some musical theory behind.

[John Carpenter]

I did. My dad was a music teacher.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And I knew music.

[Interviewer]

Bowling Green.

[John Carpenter]

That's right.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever hear the Everly Brothers song?

[John Carpenter]

I have, and it's not true. It's just not true. I wish it was.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever meet that Everly Brothers?

[John Carpenter]

I did not. No. No, no. But I can't remember what we were talking. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

We're all over the place today. That's what we're talking about. Synths. Because I love. I love vintage scents. So that's. That's.

[John Carpenter]

You do, huh? Everybody does. What is it you like the profit?

[Interviewer]

I have a profit.

[John Carpenter]

10, I bet.

[Interviewer]

You know, is the. I know the double. I even have a Cynthia 100, if you know what that is.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, my God. Really?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I'm one of those. Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Well, see, I. I worked with the. The synthesizer teacher at usc. Mm. It was a really great guy. And he owned, like, a little studio. And they're all tube synths, so he had to turn them. Tune them up.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. And tune probably every five minutes. And this would have been modular stuff.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, that's exactly.

[Interviewer]

Was it Vogue or Some.

[John Carpenter]

Some were. And so I would say to him, oh, look, I need. I need a bass sounding thing. I need a string sounding thing. He had a piano there that I would play. So that was what it was. It was simple. I have medium chops. I don't have that good. My son has great chops. I don't. So I have to hide with the sounds.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever heard the stuff where Bob Moog is sort of explaining his philosophy on why people are attracted to synthesizers?

[John Carpenter]

What did you say?

[Interviewer]

He believed in essence, in the spiritual component of synthesizers, that something in the electricity moving through the wires has. Has a spiritual component. Is that too woo woo for you?

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, it is. That's ridiculous.

[Interviewer]

Well, as someone. Okay, but I guess what I'm arguing is. It's not an argument, but there's something about synthesizer technology. Stockhausen, who is the pioneering.

[John Carpenter]

I know Stockhausen's had some great ideas,

[Interviewer]

but Stockhausen's point about synthesizers was you cannot have sound in natural environments without the environment affecting the sound. Synthesis allows you the only way to hear sound without the environment affecting sound.

[John Carpenter]

Stockhausen had a piece of music he wrote which was designed for four or five cellos being held by helicopters. Yes. Now, come on. It's such horsesh. Come on.

[Interviewer]

But we're still talking about stucco.

[John Carpenter]

I know. It's true. It's true.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever hear the one where it's just people singing in weird rotations?

[John Carpenter]

No, I haven't.

[Interviewer]

That one will set your hair.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. I bet.

[Interviewer]

When you had success. And now, like you said, you're making people money. And you're now a darling or a

[John Carpenter]

genius for 10 seconds.

[Interviewer]

10 seconds, sure.

[John Carpenter]

And then you're a bum. And then you work your way back into.

[Interviewer]

But. But just to freeze the frame for a second. All right. When you're in that golden moment when the phone is ringing and they're throwing scripts at you and they.

[John Carpenter]

I see.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I can relate in theory.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What did you. Did you. Did you think, great, now I can really do what I want to do.

[John Carpenter]

No, no, no, no. It was very. It was worrisome because I'm not sure this is what I want to do. This way. Not this way. Please, just be cool. Let me come up with the idea here.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see.

[John Carpenter]

Let me work it through. I'll bring it to you.

[Interviewer]

The Fog was the sort of the. The next project after the success.

[John Carpenter]

It was. I had to come up with something. So my partner and I, we came up with the Fog. And I was a golden boy for A bit of the time there, but, you know, but then it began to creak because if you don't produce genius material all the time, you're idiot.

[Interviewer]

What, what do you think? Or what you remember that they wanted you to do?

[John Carpenter]

Make money for them.

[Interviewer]

But I mean, did they see you like, okay, now you're going to be the new Spielberger, you know what I'm saying?

[John Carpenter]

It was always on my own. I was always the new John Carpenter, you know, Okay, a scary guy.

[Interviewer]

But did, were they trying to push in any particular direction?

[John Carpenter]

Scary, scary, scary money. And all of a sudden, at this juncture of 78, 79, a lot of scary movies began to be made. So they thought, oh, he knows what he's doing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because Jaws was sort of around that time.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah, it was a little earlier than that, but that's the idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's a blurry memory, my child, and it's okay.

[John Carpenter]

And I scared you and I probably affected that memory.

[Interviewer]

Well, you're probably to blame for something.

[John Carpenter]

I am. You can blame me right now.

[Interviewer]

We'll go back to wrestling. It's safe. I, I, I, I wanted to talk to you because, like a lot of people in my generation, which is Gen X, we grew up on Saturday morning. You know, they would show like, Robbie the Robot, Tobor and.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, they did, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So I grew up on all those types of movies.

[John Carpenter]

Robbie was in one of my favorite, the movie that got me destined to direct Forbidden Planet.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[John Carpenter]

You know that movie?

[Interviewer]

Of course. Yeah. Great movie.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah, I, I saw it 8 years old.

[Interviewer]

Just, just the colors of that movie.

[John Carpenter]

The story of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Turbo.

[Interviewer]

I remember an early pioneering synthesizer soundtrack.

[John Carpenter]

I know it. And, but they did it with like all sorts of strange ways. It wasn't a synth.

[Interviewer]

It was probably using oscillators.

[John Carpenter]

That's exactly what they.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, they probably just had the old, you know. Yes, sir.

[John Carpenter]

The, the Barons, BB and Louis Barron. They were fabulous. I still, I have that soundtrack. I listen to it occasionally.

[Interviewer]

It's cool.

[John Carpenter]

Just to see what they were doing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So what I'm after is, it's, I, when I see it, when I see it associated with you, it seems to diminish your work. Because when people call some of your work exploitation or exploitation films, you know what I'm saying? It's a particular word that's thrown around with a lot of 70s movies.

[John Carpenter]

I hear you. Well, there was, look, we showed PJ Soul's breasts because it was an exploitation film at the time. And that's Fine with. I love exploitation films. What's wrong with them? Because they are designed to, to appeal to a certain audience. That's fine. Horror movies came from there. That's fine. What's wrong with all that?

[Interviewer]

But the connective tissue, if you see it between like, let's call it the 50s, kind of sci fi, post nuclear, 50 foot woman.

[John Carpenter]

Right, that's 50s, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I'm saying there's a resonant vibe there with your work, but I always see it as a sort of a form of joy. Like, like, like it is like, here's the premise.

[John Carpenter]

Let's have fun.

[Interviewer]

Let's have fun.

[John Carpenter]

That's right.

[Interviewer]

And even Halloween, though, it scared the bejesus out of me. It. There's. There's an element of fun and mirth in the whole thing.

[John Carpenter]

Well, good, I'm glad. But I never thought. I see. Critics think that horror is like pornography down there and people who do that are ugly people. You see?

[Interviewer]

I see.

[John Carpenter]

But highbrow movies are what you should aspire to. I had all my teachers, some of my teachers in high school and college back in Bowling Green, saw Halloween and so, oh gosh, you know, why doesn't he do something? Oh, I see what, you know, up here, not down there. And a lot of critics believe that. They believe that. I remember when Stephen King got some award, they said, I want to know. No, no, no, he can't be. Because he's. He's a horror writer.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[John Carpenter]

You see they type you.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[John Carpenter]

And that's, you know, it's the way it is.

[Interviewer]

But do you just. Last thing on the, on the exploitation kind of the post nuclear thing, do you. Is there a particular thread there with your generation because of the times that you huge guys grew up in?

[John Carpenter]

Huge. My gender. I came kind of up in the 50s.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

I was born in 48. So it was right after the. I was always lived with the atomic war as a potential over my head. I thought about it a lot too.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

I guess the end of everything.

[Interviewer]

I think where I resonate personally with, with your work is you're almost the exact age as my parents. No, but what I mean by that is I grew up in a household.

[John Carpenter]

Yes. Okay. I accept that. I accept the role.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And you must not go to see Halloween at 11.

[Interviewer]

Well, they let me. But it's the idea that there's a particular. Every generation has its obsessions.

[John Carpenter]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

It's kind of, you know, Picasso painted the Madonna image 42 times.

[John Carpenter]

I know, I know. So, you know, badly 42 times.

[Interviewer]

Not a Picasso fan. We should have gotten him a synthesizer.

[John Carpenter]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Maybe things would have been different. I love Escape from New York and that we don't have to go into all the same stories. But it does strike me that the movie is oddly prescient because we are kind of living in Escape from New York now. We're living as they live.

[John Carpenter]

They Live was the movie I made about the aliens.

[Interviewer]

Well, that, too. Right.

[John Carpenter]

Well, that's happened. That's. It's a documentary.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And it's just my political background sneaking into a movie. I hate that. I don't like political movies. I made one and I'm ashamed now.

[Interviewer]

Sure. But let's call it just common dystopia.

[John Carpenter]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you must see. You must chuckle sometimes when we look at the daily obsession of the American public.

[John Carpenter]

What do you think about current reality in America?

[Interviewer]

What do I think?

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think it's a horror show.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It is the dystopia that we should all fear. I mean, it's unreal.

[Interviewer]

Russell's trying to get away.

[John Carpenter]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

For a reason.

[John Carpenter]

Well, he doesn't give a shit about all that, but they use him and they're nefarious. Well, now. And what I can't believe, what I can't understand is why some Americans are for this. What? What? But I'm just an old man crying in the darkness, you know? No one listens.

[Interviewer]

Well, we seem to have entered.

[John Carpenter]

Old man crying in the darkness. No. Never mind.

[Interviewer]

No. But we seem to have entered. I'll give you, like, a quick thing. A friend of mine was a professional photographer in Chicago. He was actually in the room during the famous Kennedy Nixon debate. Debate that emanated out of Chicago.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think Nixon won?

[Interviewer]

Well, what he said was he had no perception in the moment of how it was going to play over television. His perception in the moment was completely different than the telegenic. And it's oftentimes cited as this kind of watershed moment where US politics turns into the telegenic era. So I don't know what era this is going to ultimately be called. It's certainly not going to be called the Gilded Age. But the point I'm trying to make is we're into, like, a level of farce and idiocracy that's almost shocking, but somehow we're in it.

[John Carpenter]

Did you see that movie Idiocracy?

[Interviewer]

Yes, sir.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. Oh, it's fabulous. Yeah, it's fantastic.

[Interviewer]

Was it Mike Judge? Mike Judge from.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. Fabulous. No one talks about that. And I love that.

[Interviewer]

That might be the ultimate.

[John Carpenter]

It's true. It's all true.

[Interviewer]

More so than Escape from New York, I think. So I had to ask you because I'm a huge Lee Van Cleef fan.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Lee, that must have. Lee, I. I'm. This is where I envy your. Your chair.

[John Carpenter]

Because he's an unusual person. He was an unusual guy. He had. I was. He invited me over to his place to have dinner. His wife couldn't cook a lick and it was just awful. But he had all these loaded guns on the wall. But he was very. He said, now they are loaded. I want to just warn you. But he let me pick them up and manipulate them. And Lee, he. He felt his horse fell on his leg and he never got it attended to by doctors. So walking was tough for him.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John Carpenter]

And there was a scene where we were in St. Louis and he had to walk down the street with. With his men. And his wife is next to me saying, I'm watching to see if Lee can make it because he can't walk. But he projects absolute strength. I mean, he knows how to act. He knows how to steal a scene. I liked Lee a lot. He was a cool guy.

[Interviewer]

What a cool.

[John Carpenter]

I know.

[Interviewer]

Maybe the coolest.

[John Carpenter]

But his wife couldn't cook, dude. I mean, going over this.

[Interviewer]

She must have been beautiful. He must have had a beautiful wife.

[John Carpenter]

She was wonderful. But, you know.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever see that Sabata, that movie?

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like, he carries the movie literally on charisma. What?

[John Carpenter]

He shows up in a movie and he steals the scene.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, because of how he looks and how he acts and he's got it.

[Interviewer]

What is the. It's the, you know, the famous. You brought up the director, the Italian director, the famous Sergio Leone. You got Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef and. Who was the other actor? I can't think of his name.

[John Carpenter]

No. Eli Wallach. That was a great movie. However, Once Upon a Time in the west is maybe the greatest western. It's an opera.

[Interviewer]

But did Giuliani do that movie?

[John Carpenter]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John Carpenter]

He had Charles Bronson, Henry Fonda, Claudia Cardinelli. Oh, my God. Claudia's left us now, unfortunately.

[Interviewer]

God bless her.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah, I know.

[Interviewer]

What a beauty.

[John Carpenter]

I know.

[Interviewer]

Was Felini. Felini saw that too, right?

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah. Early.

[Interviewer]

God bless.

[John Carpenter]

You know how Fellini directed?

[Interviewer]

I do not know.

[John Carpenter]

He had actors and he would kneel down beside them and he would. The girls, he would squeeze their legs and say abc. And they. They say it in Italian bc And he'd squeeze their legs when he wanted them to recite the Alphabet, and then he would dub in later whatever he wanted. I'm not kidding. I am not kidding you. Terence Stamp did a movie with him, and his direction was, you're bisexual and you've just taken a load of LSD and go. That was his direction. And that's what he did. That's what he played. Abcdef. Is that incredible?

[Interviewer]

Incredible. Do you have a favorite Fellini movie? Are you a Fellini fan, too, Arty?

[John Carpenter]

Sorta. Yeah. Well, some of them are already. I liked. I'm going to Roma for the Pope fashion show. I love the Pope fashion. The priest fashion show. I love that.

[Interviewer]

Morricone, to me, is such an incredible. I know you worked with them, and I'm. I can't. From what I saw, I can't tell if, you know, enjoyed the experience or not.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah. A wonderful man. Cool.

[Interviewer]

I mean.

[John Carpenter]

But couldn't speak English.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you can speak Italian.

[John Carpenter]

Exactly. So we can do.

[Interviewer]

Did you enjoy the experience you're working with?

[John Carpenter]

I loved it.

[Interviewer]

Can you. Can you.

[John Carpenter]

He was ahead of me. Morricone knew the theme of my movie before I knew it. I was. I wasn't. I hadn't gotten to the Heart of Darkness yet. But he got there immediately. He knew this movie was about the end of everything. It's all over. He knew it, and he put it in his music. And I remember listening when he was conducting the orchestra, and I thought, oh, he's right. He's right. There's no way out of this. If you are an imitation of a. Of a. An aggressive creature, I won't be able to tell. And you can take me over. It's over. Humanity's done. And I'm serious.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[John Carpenter]

And so I had to embrace that as a director. He paves the way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. He strikes me as such an intuitive composer for film.

[John Carpenter]

He was, like, experimental. That's where he came from.

[Interviewer]

But it's almost impossible to kind of quantify exactly how he knows what to do. He just knows what to do. And he did it over so many different genres of film and.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah. For different people. Exactly.

[Interviewer]

I've had 30 meetings in Hollywood begging them to let me be more Coney.

[John Carpenter]

Really?

[Interviewer]

And that they won't let me through the door.

[John Carpenter]

What? What?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, because they basically say.

[John Carpenter]

What do you mean with all of them?

[Interviewer]

I met with. I met with the. I went multiple times. I met with the head of every movie.

[John Carpenter]

Well, see, those are the. Those are the suits. We call them suits.

[Interviewer]

Okay. You tell me who I need to meet with directors.

[John Carpenter]

The guys who make the movie.

[Interviewer]

But, see, there aren't auteurs like you.

[John Carpenter]

Or are there? Maybe there may be guys.

[Interviewer]

You tell me, because I. I don't know.

[John Carpenter]

Excuse me? I don't know. But you need to investigate and find those guys and meet with them and tell them what you want to do, and they'll get you in there.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I like your thinking. I have one quick story to share with you. So I was doing music for a film called Stigmata, which was a 90s kind of.

[John Carpenter]

Sure. Oh, I know the director.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Yeah. He didn't like me very much.

[John Carpenter]

Well.

[Interviewer]

But here's the funny story, if you don't mind coaching me. So the. The producer of the film was a huge fan of mine and recruited me to be involved. The director wasn't so sure.

[John Carpenter]

Do you know his name? Rupert Wainwright.

[Interviewer]

Right. So anyway, so Rupert wasn't so sold on my musical approach.

[John Carpenter]

He wasn't?

[Interviewer]

He was not. So they hired like, a typical, really, you know, paint by numbers.

[John Carpenter]

Wait a minute. In addition to you?

[Interviewer]

Yes. On top of me.

[John Carpenter]

Did you know about it?

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. I had no fear because I knew I would beat the guy.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so the apocryphal scene in the movie is Gabriel Byrne, who was the lead. He goes into this courtyard and all these supernatural things are happening. And I took a very atonal, atmospheric approach, and the director hated it. I mean, he hated it.

[John Carpenter]

It must be good then.

[Interviewer]

So he insisted that I change it. And I said, well, read my contract. I don't have to change anything.

[John Carpenter]

Good for you.

[Interviewer]

See, I don't have to change anything. But you're more than welcome to change. Replace it. I have no control over that. So he had the other guy do exactly what you'd expect. Swelling strings. And

[John Carpenter]

how was it?

[Interviewer]

Well, they tested both scenes, and mine got the higher score.

[John Carpenter]

I'm sure it did.

[Interviewer]

So I won.

[John Carpenter]

Rupert Wainwright directed the remake of the Fog.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my goodness. Did not know that.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that's. Now we're connected.

[John Carpenter]

Yep. We are. We are.

[Interviewer]

I'm sure he's still cursing my name somewhere. I liked what you said about. I guess in a positive way, that the. The business you were in, you were dealing with riverboat gamblers at the studios. They were willing to take risks on someone like that.

[John Carpenter]

Some of them, yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you at least elaborate on that a little bit?

[John Carpenter]

Well, this is. This goes back to the founding of movies. The early guys were all riverboat gamblers.

[Interviewer]

They.

[John Carpenter]

Would you come in with an idea and they'd try it, you know, and they'd do odd things, they'd go off in this direction. They had us, they had movies that they made, they knew would make money. This is back in the 30s and 40s, but they tried different things.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

And. Go ahead.

[Interviewer]

Did you respect the studio system?

[John Carpenter]

Looking back, Huge. And it worked. It worked.

[Interviewer]

What an incredible trove of movies that were made.

[John Carpenter]

But yes, incredible films. But look, a movie like they put the wizard of Oz. They put so much into that film. It kept recasting it and the directors would come and go. Yeah, my God. I mean it was. It's amazing film. So. No, those guys were fantastic. And the system they developed really works. Yeah, but they've gotten that now.

[Interviewer]

Would you, would you like to work in that system?

[John Carpenter]

Kind of.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[John Carpenter]

Kinda.

[Interviewer]

Kind of.

[John Carpenter]

Kind of not, but kind of not.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but what I think of when I think of the studio system, because I'm a huge fan. I mostly only watch movies from the 30s. That's kind of my.

[John Carpenter]

You turn classics. You watch that?

[Interviewer]

No, I go, I got on my way to watch stuff that's like you can't even find anywhere.

[John Carpenter]

Is that right?

[Interviewer]

I like studio pictures that are. I guess you would call them programmers. But like, I mean these weird musicals that are completely lost to history, you know. But oftentimes there'll be a decent director attached to it. It'll be Harry Warren wrote the songs, you know, like there's. I guess what I would say about the studio system is it's less to me about whether or not somebody hit a home run in every movie. But the quality level is so high because the Carpenters were working all the time. The, the, the, the, the character actors, the, you know, the Frank Morgans of

[John Carpenter]

the world, you know it, man, they

[Interviewer]

were so skilled that you could plug them into a movie.

[John Carpenter]

You know it.

[Interviewer]

You had a level of consistent quality that you cannot find in modern filmmaking.

[John Carpenter]

It doesn't. Yeah, because they gutted the system, I'm telling you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

There are no character actors, Holly. The actors in Hollywood are in trouble.

[Interviewer]

They're definitely in trouble now.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

They keep kicking the can on AI.

[John Carpenter]

I know. Oh God.

[Interviewer]

You want to jump into the AI?

[John Carpenter]

I don't know enough about it. Except it's prompts, props, right? Is that the idea? Yeah, we. I don't, I don't get it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I know, I know. Somebody just told me the other day that somebody's setting up a multi billion dollar AI production studio. So basically, if you want a third if you were making a new film and you needed a scene where your character was going to walk across a desert and you don't have the 150 grand to blow on the scene, you go there.

[John Carpenter]

Huh?

[Interviewer]

And you go there and they'll put your guy or girl walking across the desert and Bob's your uncle, as they would say.

[John Carpenter]

Great.

[Interviewer]

Well, we'll see. You know, jury's still out on that.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But it's certainly going to wreak havoc, havoc on this town in terms of it.

[John Carpenter]

Will it change everything and, you know, fight the actors and, and the creative people are fighting against it. Yeah, because it's. But we'll see. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

[Interviewer]

Do you see an auteur class in the current landscape?

[John Carpenter]

Not many. Few here and there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, sure do.

[John Carpenter]

Jordan Peele, I think, is pretty great.

[Interviewer]

Do some of them reach out to you for. For now.

[John Carpenter]

You don't give a shit. That old guy, we don't want to talk to him.

[Interviewer]

I'd love to talk to you. I mean, it's just like to me, you're, you're. You stood in such a unique spots.

[John Carpenter]

I did. I had my, my time in it. And I'm really happy about that. I got to live my dream. I really did.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Some astonishing. Who would have thought this idiot from Bowling Green could be a director?

[Interviewer]

For people who aren't knowledgeable about your work, what's the one film you would point them at to say this was the best? I'm not saying pick, because I hate when people ask me what's my favorite album?

[John Carpenter]

They're all, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[Interviewer]

And I hate them all. And I love them all.

[John Carpenter]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

You know, understand. But I'm saying is if you, if, if you wanted to say, hey, if I want you. If I want you to watch one film, watch this one film. Because I think this is the best kind of balance of what I was at.

[John Carpenter]

Watch the thing. Just check it out and see if it affects you emotionally. Anyway. Yeah, I would say that. Or Halloween, I don't know.

[Interviewer]

No, no, no.

[John Carpenter]

But I think that's it.

[Interviewer]

No, I'm proud of them, I think. Yeah.

[John Carpenter]

Very proud of it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because certainly.

[John Carpenter]

And I'm also proud of Cathedral, my new album, which I'm pimping here with you today.

[Interviewer]

Okay. We're not sure when this is coming out, but it's going to definitely come out soon in 2026. So.

[John Carpenter]

Great.

[Interviewer]

Is it, Is the Cathedral thing out yet or. It's coming.

[John Carpenter]

Not yet. It's coming.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so When's it actually coming out?

[John Carpenter]

If I know. May sometime. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

See, this is why you had trouble in Hollywood. You gotta promote your stuff.

[John Carpenter]

Well, I'm old now, in my memory, you know. But anyway.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Last, last, last silly question.

[John Carpenter]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

How do you think the Hawks and the Hitchcocks and the Fords of the world would look at our current time right now? Not just the time we're in, but the way movies are being made?

[John Carpenter]

Oh, they'd scratch their heads and say, what? What's happening? That was just so alien to them, the way they worked, the way they made their movies. Nobody would care that much. That's the thing.

[Interviewer]

See, that hurts. Because when you say it, I feel that's true. And it hurt.

[John Carpenter]

It just. They don't care. And I'm not sure a big segment of the audience cares anymore. I'm sorry. They don't care.

[Interviewer]

There's this one thing that I'm thinking of at the end of the Searchers.

[John Carpenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's that scene where Wayne sort of walks out the door.

[John Carpenter]

He holds his hand, like, carrying.

[Interviewer]

He just. You knowing what I'm talking about gives me chills. That sense of honor within the genre. And genre is too small a word. The nobility of the American film when it's spot on.

[John Carpenter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And Wayne's ability as an actor and as a human being to understand the symbolism of that moment.

[John Carpenter]

That's correct.

[Interviewer]

Where's that gone?

[John Carpenter]

It ain't here. That's a great scene. Because there's no place for this guy anymore. He needs to ride on.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Thank you, sir.

[John Carpenter]

You got it, man.

[Interviewer]

Love talking to you.

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