Rudy Sarzo Part 1 | The Magnificent Others

Summary

The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Rudy Sarzo Part 1

Released: October 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Magnificent Others, Billy Corgan sits down with legendary bassist Rudy Sarzo for an in-depth exploration of his incredible journey from Cuban immigrant to iconic rock musician. The conversation covers Sarzo’s early life in Havana, emigration and adaptation to America, his deeply spiritual motivations, and the relentless grind of trying to "make it" in rock and roll during the 1970s. Sarzo shares first-hand insights into the L.A. music scene, the rise and struggles of Quiet Riot, and the profound influence of his friendships with musicians like Randy Rhoads. The episode is filled with humor, honesty, and rich anecdotes that illuminate the multi-layered life of a rock survivor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life in Cuba and Immigration to the U.S.

• Cuban Roots and Family History

  • Rudy describes the tradition of inheriting long names in Cuba (St. Maximiliano as part of his birth name) (02:03).

  • Memories of life before and during the Cuban Revolution: "I was almost nine in the Christmas...when the revolution came in. So, you know, I. I was aware of a lot of things, a lot of changes in my school. It went from like being a normal private school to all of a sudden...it's run by the government." (05:36)

  • Recounts political indoctrination at school, including chilling stories of state loyalty being tested among children (06:46).

    “I recall the teacher, you know, saying, okay, children, pray for ice cream to God...you don't get nothing, and say, now pray to Papa Castro. And there you go. Hot fudge sundae.” — Rudy Sarzo (07:18)

• Escape and Adaptation

  • The family’s secretive, legally sanctioned emigration: “We spent about a year and a half getting all...the documentation necessary not only to leave Cuba, but to enter the United States...” (12:02)
  • On feeling like exiles: “My citizenship was stripped once we left. We became Gusanos—worms. That was the nickname for people that left.” (14:06)
  • Leaving everything behind, with the uncertainty of ever returning home.

2. Early Impressions of America and American Culture

• Arrival and Adaptation

  • Vivid contrast of Cuban and American environments: Rudy notes feeling “safe” after experiencing prayer at school and the Pledge of Allegiance (16:23).

  • On the challenges of winter in New Jersey compared to the Caribbean, and the lifelong process of language adaptation (“I became very adaptable. That’s one of the things that I learned when I was very young. I must adapt.”) (19:16)

  • Struggles with identity and invisibility as a Cuban kid among primarily Irish and Italian classmates until rock and roll brought unity.

    “I stopped being invisible.” — Rudy Sarzo (25:21)

• Musical Formative Years

  • Childhood in Cuba immersed in music: “Music is a major factor. And there was music everywhere...my influences as an early age were big band, Latin jazz, Celia Cruz, Benny Moré.” (07:51)
  • Into American pop and rock: Influenced by Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons, the Beatles, and the British Invasion, which gave him and his peers a sense of identity and broke down social barriers (21:15–21:48).
  • The unifying power of rock: “I like to think of it as a collective consciousness...it’s an ocean of souls up there.” (22:16–23:10)

3. Musical Beginnings and Instrumental Journey

• Switching to Bass by Necessity

  • Rudy’s first guitar was shared with his brother—and when he tried to join a neighborhood band, he was told: “We got too many guitar players. If you want to join, you got to play bass. And I go, what's that?” (29:59)
  • Humor about the fate of bassists: “Because nobody wants to play bass.” — Host (30:14)
  • Describes his first “Zimgar” bass, then a Kingston, and eventually a Gibson EB inspired by Jack Bruce.

• Early Gigging Life

  • Migrant musical work among regional bands in Miami, Utica (NY), Chicago, and up and down the East Coast; gigs in lounge circuits, grinding through evolving trends like disco and doo-wop (31:31–34:06).
  • Experiences sharing amplifiers, relying on parents’ purchases on credit, and playing in bands with limited resources.

4. Chasing the Rock and Roll Dream

• From Miami to LA… via Utica and Chicago

  • Sarzo’s willingness to uproot his life in pursuit of opportunity: “I grabbed my SVT, one guitar and one suitcase. Put it on a train from Newark to Chicago.” (33:40)

  • Encounters with the “Spinal Tap” realities of the music business: “My whole life has been—I want to—we’re going to get to that. I’m curious...” (04:48)

  • The club circuits (e.g., Mothers, Rush Up, Huey's) and the constant heartbreak of near-breakthroughs and perpetual roadblocks (36:17–37:25).

    "Being a starving musician was a step up from being a Cuban refugee." (37:25)

• Decision to Move to LA

  • Details the cross-country drive with Frankie Benali and Bob Marlette, barely scraping by, reliant on the generosity of "kind souls" in the LA scene for housing (40:00–40:56).
  • Returning to New Jersey to regroup and save money before making the leap back to LA.

5. Breakthrough with Quiet Riot

• LA Club Scene & Meeting Randy Rhoads

  • Networking and fate in LA’s club circuit (Starwood, Rainbow, Whiskey): "If you did not go out, you might miss that great meeting." (47:03)
  • First impressions of Quiet Riot and Randy Rhoads: “They checked all the boxes...They had a vision. They had a production, a presentation. What they really needed was better songs.” (51:58)
  • A reflection on the music industry's cycles: “Every time we would do a demo… whatever they were asking us to sound like was passe.” (52:24)

• Struggles to Get Signed

  • Describes desperate attempts to get attention, including organizing pickets in front of record company offices (53:00–54:01).
  • The constant frustration with being asked to chase trends by labels. Example: writing a clone of Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" called "One in a Million"—only for the trend to immediately pass. (55:05)

6. Randy Rhoads, the Ozzy Call, and the Spiritual Epiphany

• Randy's Departure and Aftermath

  • Randy Rhoads leaves for Ozzy Osbourne, Quiet Riot folds: “As soon as Randy left, Quiet Riot ceased to exist. Yeah. So I cut my hair. I went new wave.” (58:52–59:03)
  • Rudy forms new “new wave” bands, but none find traction.

• Spiritual Turning Point

  • Profound spiritual experience during a low point: “I have been on a spiritual journey for a while...I had my epiphany. I said, you know, I made peace with God. I’m sleeping on the floor, shag carpeting on a Flash Gordon sheet...all I knew was to be prepared and just let God take over.” (62:51–66:54)

    “Just let God take over. That’s it. Okay, let’s show up to everything that I’m doing. If I have an audition, I’m gonna be prepared—but the final decision is up to God.” (66:41)

• Landing the Ozzy Osbourne Gig

  • Twice nearly turning down the audition for Ozzy: “My first reaction was just, no, thank you. No, thanks. I’m playing an angel on blow.” (69:03)
  • On the second call, Sarzo accepts and—thanks to Randy’s advocacy—is quickly ushered into the Ozzy camp (69:54).
  • Quick audition and immediate acceptance: “Ozzy turns to me and says, hey man, do you want the gig? I said yes. And my life went into panavision color at that moment.” (71:00–72:22)

7. Randy Rhoads—The Man and the Legend

• On Randy’s Talent and Integrity

  • Corgan asks Sarzo to reflect on Rhoads’s musical legacy and character, avoiding the oft-explored tragedy of his untimely death.

  • Sarzo emphasizes Randy’s integrity and unique musicianship: “...very rare to find musicians with the musical integrity of the level of Randy Rhoads.” (74:34)

  • Notes how Rhoads’s fusion of classical influence in heavy metal was ahead of its time, and how Ozzy fostered musical diversity and inclusion within his band: “He didn’t care what you looked like, where you came from.” (76:45–78:02)

    “The shocking thing... he was only 25 years old and you think of the music that he produced by the time he was 25 that we’re still listening to and we still celebrate him.” — Billy Corgan (73:36)

• The Sessions and the Evolution of Sound

  • On the dramatic stylistic leap between “Blizzard of Ozz” and “Diary of a Madman”: “It was so different from the first one that [Ozzy] hated it...Because it was—it was the future.” (79:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Adaptability:

  “I became very adaptable. That’s one of the things that I learned when I was very young. I must adapt.” — Rudy Sarzo (00:11, 19:16)

• On Political Indoctrination:

  “I recall the teacher, you know, saying, okay, children, pray for ice cream to God...you don't get nothing, and say, now pray to Papa Castro. And there you go. Hot fudge sundae.” — Rudy Sarzo (07:18)

• On Identity & Collective Consciousness:

  “I stopped being invisible.” — Rudy Sarzo (25:21)

  “I like to think of it as a collective consciousness...it’s an ocean of souls up there.” — Rudy Sarzo on performing (22:16–23:10)

• On the Struggles of Musicianship:

  "Being a starving musician was a step up from being a Cuban refugee." — Rudy Sarzo (37:25)

• On Fate and Opportunity:

  “Just let God take over. That’s it. Okay, let’s show up to everything that I’m doing. If I have an audition, I’m gonna be prepared—but the final decision is up to God.” — Rudy Sarzo (66:41)

• On Quiet Riot’s Club Days:

  “They checked all the boxes...They had a vision. They had a production, a presentation. What they really needed was better songs.” — Rudy Sarzo (51:58)

• On Diversity in Ozzy’s Band:

  “He didn’t care what you looked like, where you came from.” — Rudy Sarzo (78:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early Life in Cuba: 05:05–07:46
• Escape from Cuba and Life in US: 11:07–16:18
• Musical Childhood & American Influences: 07:51–10:11, 23:32–26:00
• Becoming a Bassist: 29:39–31:18
• Chicago & Club Circuit Stories: 33:40–36:39
• Arrival in LA / Club Scene: 39:04–49:27
• Quiet Riot Struggles & Gimmicks: 52:24–55:20
• Spiritual Epiphany Story: 62:43–66:54
• Ozzy Audition / Colorful Life Change: 69:54–72:22
• Randy Rhoads Tribute: 73:36–78:02
• On the Evolution of Ozzy’s Sound: 79:13–80:15

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Summary Tone and Takeaways

This episode is candid, deeply personal, and at times laugh-out-loud funny, thanks to Sarzo’s self-deprecating humor and Corgan’s disarming curiosity. Sarzo’s journey reflects the immigrant struggle, the perseverance required in the music industry, and the soulful undercurrent connecting rock musicians everywhere. The conversation artfully mixes music history, spiritual searching, and the raw realities of “making it”—while shining a loving light on Randy Rhoads’s enduring musical spirit.

Transcript

[Rudy Sarzo]

I said, I want to be in your band. And I say, well, we got too many guitar players. If you want to join, you got to play bass. And I go, what's that?

[Interviewer]

They say, because nobody wants to play bass.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I could adapt. I became very adaptable. That's one of the things that I learned when I was very young. I must adapt.

[Interviewer]

It's like we're going to make it and nobody wants us.

[Rudy Sarzo]

A lot of heartbreaks.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, painful.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's rock and roll, right?

[Rudy Sarzo]

What are you gonna do? Kevin Dubro answers the phone. He says, hey, Rudy, there's somebody calling you. I go, nobody knows me.

[Interviewer]

Hello.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, hi, Rudy. This is Sharon and Ozzy's manager. Randy tells me about you and we want you to come out to audition. Then Ozzy gets up on stage, we play the songs again, and Ozzy turns to me and says, hey, man won the game. I said yes. And my life went into panavision color at that end of it. It was like, wow, I'm in this world now.

[Interviewer]

Boom. So nice to see you. Thank you. Billy, thank you for being on my show.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, my pleasure.

[Interviewer]

All right, here we go. Ready? Okay. Rodolfo Maxilano Maximiliano. Thank you. Sarzo Laviel Grande Grande Ruiz.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Jerey. Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

All my ancestors.

[Interviewer]

What a beautiful name.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, it's too long for an email.

[Interviewer]

So it's like I'm at.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So actually that, that was my birth name, you know, and in Cuba being a Catholic country, is that normal to. Yeah, you get all your ancestors name and then you. Maximiliano is my saint day. You know, there's like, you know I'm St. Patrick, right? Yeah. So mine was Maximiliano and so, but.

[Interviewer]

What was he known for? Saint Maximiliano.

[Rudy Sarzo]

He was a bass player.

[Interviewer]

The bass playing scene.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That's right.

[Interviewer]

Anyway, I cut you off. Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I love it. Do you want to know the origin?

[Interviewer]

No, no.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I think how my name got changed. So we moved from Cuba to the United States and in Miami it became Rudolph.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know. Okay. So a couple of Years later, from 61 to 63, we were relocated to West New York, New Jersey.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

My first day in school, I, you know, I, we, we are. I, I arrived late in the, in the school year. So they gave me the last seat in the back and so I'm putting my books away and I hear Rudy, Rudy. I'm like, who's Rudy? What is that? What's wrong with the teacher? Who's he yelling? Who is he yelling at? So I, so I look up and he goes yes, you. I go, oh, Rudolph. It says, no, you're Rudy from now on. Now, today, that tissue would have gotten fired because of, you know, because my gra. Yeah, but 60 years ago was. That was. That was normal, you know.

[Interviewer]

So this is a partial list, but Quiet Riot, Ozzy Osbourne, White Snake, Manic Eden Dio, Blue Oyster Cult, Jeff Tate's Queens Reich, Devil City Angels and the Guess who.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, Devil City Angels is the band. It was. It was a situation because there was an album that was recorded. I had nothing to do with it. It was the. The basis for Cinderella.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Played on it. And. And the other guys in the band, Ricky Rocket and Tracy Guns. I had. I was doing something with Tracy and. And so he was a member of Angel. What is this?

[Interviewer]

Angel City?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, Angel City Sinners, whatever. And. And he says, listen, the. The bas. Player left. How would you like to do this? And we. I figure, well, it sounds right, because when we take a break. What, what, what? The band that we have with Tracy Guns, then that means that I can just roll into this other band, you know, And I like the guys in the band and everything, but I. I.

[Interviewer]

Did the video, so you weren't actually in the band. Okay. So that shouldn't be on the list.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Because as I was doing the video, there was a. An argument between one of the members in the group and management. And management dropped the band and what. As you know, with management, dropped the band in the middle of the project. Everything, you know, all the business.

[Interviewer]

Just very Spinal Tap, though. Very Spinal Tap.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, I Spinal. My whole life has been. I want to.

[Interviewer]

We're going to get to that.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. I'm one of those guys who have lived Swallowtapp.

[Interviewer]

We're going to get to that. I'm curious. You're born in Havana, 1950.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I'm curious for your memories of being in Cuba as a child before you emigrated.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Like there were always.

[Interviewer]

Was it a happy time for you?

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was happy until, I mean, I experienced the turning over into communism and Batista and. Yeah, from batista.

[Interviewer]

Batista was 52 and. And Castro was 58.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, I was there. I was living. And I was 2 years old, so I don't remember much.

[Interviewer]

You remember the atmosphere of time.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I was seven. I was almost nine in the Christmas. I mean, New Year's Eve of 59, when the revolution came in. So, you know, I. I was aware of a lot of things, a lot of changes in my school. It went from like being a normal private school to all of a sudden to all of a sudden, it's run by the government. So now all the teachers were under supervision of whatever.

[Interviewer]

Because you notice a change, almost like an indoctrination right away.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, immediately, immediately. As a matter of fact, we missed the first, what would have been my sixth grade. We missed it because my parents took me out of school and waited until we left in 1961.

[Interviewer]

Were your parents political people?

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, there was just an average family who did not want their family to live under communism.

[Interviewer]

Right. Did the average citizen. I mean, if you remember, and I'm sure you've talked about it since, did the average citizen feel that if they did not get in line with the political ideology of the.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Castro, that they were under threat?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

And.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Were you conscious of that at the time?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, I had to, because overnight I saw the changes in my school. All of a sudden, we, the children, one by one, were being kept after school, and they were basically being interrogated by the teachers, kind of like soft interrogation. There must have been a manual, a playbook that says, this is how you do it.

[Interviewer]

Were they trying to get information on the families or the par.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Do your family. Do you hear your mom and dad talking about Cast. Papa Castor.

[Interviewer]

Scary.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. I recall the teacher, you know, saying, okay, children, pray for ice cream to God. And of course you pray. You don't get nothing, and say, now pray to Papa Castro. And there you go. Hot fudge sundae.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But you. Setting aside the political environment, which, again, you're still a little kid, you know, I mean, when we're kids, it's like playing in the yard and.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Whether you're playing soccer or whatever, like, what's your memory of your life in music?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Cuba music. You know, one of the things about certain Latin countries, no matter what the political leanings are, music is a major factor. And there was music everywhere. You know, I. I was born and I was listening to music before rock and roll existed, you know, so my influences as an early age were big band, Latin jazz, you know, celiacuduz, Benny Morey. And then, you know, of course, we had the influence of Dizzy Gillespie with. When once.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's right. Cause he did that whole Latin.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, there was a lot of, you.

[Interviewer]

Know, they call it Afro Cuban or.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The Afro Cuban, but there was a lot of entertainment in Havana. We lived in Havana.

[Interviewer]

Like, weren't there a lot of American entertainers coming down to play at the casinos and make money and.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Oh, Havana was where Vegas is kind of, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

There was at the time Vegas was in, really Las Vegas in 1961, it wasn't until the flow in 1959, I see of people coming on the ferry they would use to take ferries from Key west to Havana. So you get off your, your car and you just drive the car.

[Interviewer]

It's only, what is it, 90 miles between Miami?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, 90 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people took fairies and there you are, you're, you're in Helvana.

[Interviewer]

Was, were, were people in your family musical?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, I had an. An aunt who was actually a, a, a. They had casinos everywhere in Havana and she was a casino entertainer, lounge and lounge singers. She sang on TV and all of that. And then I had an. Was classically trained pianist and opera singer.

[Interviewer]

Did you think that you would one day play music? Was this something you were interested in?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

What's your sort of earliest sort of conscious thought about, I want to be a musician?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Since my uncle played piano and I wanted to play piano. And at that time Liberace was very popular and in Cuba. And my mom said, you're going to be a. It's not for you. This is not for you.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, the same thing happened with football. You know, we, we, we arrive in, in Miami and my dad gets, you know, a TV on, on, you know, like your credit, you know. Yeah, we had to have a TV, you know, entertainment. And so I turn on TV and there's football. This is 1961, so it's only very early Super Bowl.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, I actually watched the US Football. Yeah, yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And so my mom sees all these guys wearing tight pants and one guy has his hands underneath the other guy's butt. And my mom says, turn that off.

[Interviewer]

That was that. So what do you remember about the circumstances of your, of your leaving? I mean, that's a. Traumatic for a little child. You know, you're still very young, 10, 11 years old. It's traumatic, I imagine. Or am I imagining that?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. What was the most traumatic? I mean, and at the time, I, we thought this was going to, you know, because we left in between the Bay of Pigs. We were in Cuban Bay of Pigs and the Missile crisis, you know, the October Missile crisis. So we were right in the middle. And they have installed committee, defense committees in every block. So there was basically neighborhood watch. They were just like looking, making sure, writing notes with doing something that looks a little bit weird, like moving furniture out of your place when you're not moving. And my dad was a technician. He ran back in the, you know, in the 50s and 60s. He had these huge three bobbin newspaper printing. He ran that.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, he was the technician, you know, for the magazine called La Buemia.

[Interviewer]

And they had those massive printing. Massive.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. And this is something that you kind of just like push a button. You have to know how to operate.

[Interviewer]

It, you know, and it's dangerous too.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, it is very dangerous. Yeah. And so they were keeping technicians. They were not allowing them to leave the country. So my, you know, we. We spent about a year and a half getting all. All the documentation necessary not only to leave the country, but to enter the United States, which was. We had to get a sponsor, we had to get the visa, and then of course, the, the tickets, the passport, everything, you know, on undercover, like, nobody knew, nobody in the family knew that.

[Interviewer]

We were leaving because if they knew.

[Rudy Sarzo]

They would have kept my dad. And my mom was not willing to leave without my dad.

[Interviewer]

So just. So I understand. So there wasn't a legal process to leave. You've almost got to do it all on the sly?

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, no, we did it legally.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So I'm just confused by that.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, no, no, because. No, no. It was a matter of like, nobody else knew that we were doing it.

[Interviewer]

In the family because the, the family might rebel or.

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, they might. Something might slip out. Somebody might mention something to somebody else.

[Interviewer]

Okay, now I understand. You know, I get you. Yeah. The risk is somebody might make sure you don't leave.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, not intentionally. Just like, oops, oh, I see you said something, you know, and. Or we did not give anybody furniture or clothing. We left the apartment in Havana just like were going out for the weekend.

[Interviewer]

Okay. When you guys did leave, did you think it was possibly temporary and that the political situation would change and you could come home?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, as long as Kennedy was alive. That was the moment when Kennedy got shot. By then we had. We had been relocated to New Jersey, West New York.

[Interviewer]

And you knew that was it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The ship got burnt.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever been back?

[Rudy Sarzo]

No.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever want to go back?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I don't want to go back as a tourist. I want to go back as a citizen. See, my citizenship was stripped once we left. We became Gusanos worms. That was the nickname for people that left.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. There was a situation in the late 90s where there was kind of a loophole where you could go to Cuba as an American citizen, but you had to do it kind of on the sly. You had to go fly somewhere else and then you could go to Cuba.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And there was a group of kind of famous people going. And I was Sort of offered to go with them and. And my. My girlfriend at the time wanted to go because, you know, Havana's such a, you know, beautiful place in terms of culture, and, you know, they still have the 1950s cars, you know. You know, of course, it's the romantic idea of something. It's a tourist thing, you know. Yeah, I understand. I'm saying this. This is. This is what I was being sort of sold, and I was curious, but. And eventually I said, I don't want to go. And the people that wanted me to go said, why don't you want to go? And I said, I don't want to sneak. I don't want to go there on the sneak.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I want it to be a peaceful. When it's a peaceful thing.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know. You know, that's a shame.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, I hope you. I hope you do get to go.

[Rudy Sarzo]

If it's meant to. I mean, I know that I. Even if I go, it's not gonna be even close to the place my family left in 1961.

[Interviewer]

Sure. Of course not. You probably would be almost unrecognizable.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Unrecognizable.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But still, home is home, right? Do you feel that way? I know you love America, so that's.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I am an American that was born in Cuba. Yeah. What would be recognizable is the breeze, the. The environment, the nature of it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, because there's a certain scent to it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I get that. It was beautiful. Okay, now you're in America.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Interesting time. Right. Early 60s. And. And like you said, you end up going up north to New York or New Jersey or.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Where's New York?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you like America right away? I mean, what was your.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, my first impression. First day in school. All of a sudden, now there's prayer in school and there's the Pledge of Allegiance. I felt safe.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Safe from. Remember, this is the whole war times.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I mean, this is a little bit of proselytizing, but I think sometimes we, as Americans, born in America, Americans, we lose sight of how great America can be and is. And sometimes we need someone who comes to America and tries to almost back explain to us. Don't you understand what makes your country so amazing and the fact that your family found security and prosperity. Right.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, to me, it's all based on. And I'm not a political person, but having been affected by communism, I am a political person.

[Interviewer]

Well, how can you not be?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, I can't help it.

[Interviewer]

Like, you know, in America, we deal with Communism and socialism in many ways, as a sort of a conceptual idea, you know, I mean, it's a. It's like a school thing. Yes. There are practical applications, and we're conscious of where it's applied in other places. But even part of the argument that goes on sometimes in America is like, well, you know, commun. Communism has never been applied properly. Or, you know, you hear these kind of.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Collegiate explanations. But when you talk to people who actually grew up under communism, and I was in a relationship with somebody who grew up under Soviet communism, they're like, you don't want that. No.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. No, because one thing is to read about it, you know, to romanticize it, and another thing is to, like, be in it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And sorry to interrupt you. What was funny was when you were talking about how the kids were being interrogated at school.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The person I was in a relationship with told me a story once, and this is Soviet era, you know, early 80s.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The playbook. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The. The. The person told me that one day the parents kind of said, come here, you know, and. And told her, when we argue, you have to keep your voice down. And you can't say anything about bad. About us or the neighbors or the. Or the government. Like, you got to. Really. She was a kid. So imagine telling a little kid like, you got to watch what you say because we might all get a hauled out of here. I think that's the part that. Where you get a little bit lost in the conceptual applications of these things.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes. And unless you, you know, unless somebody has lived through that, is very hard to understand.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so. So, because I was trying to follow your biography. So did you guys stay in New.

[Rudy Sarzo]

York or Western New York? Well, you know, coming from the Caribbean, surviving the winters was pretty harsh. From my family, you know, me as a kid, I could adapt. I became very adaptable. That's one of the things that I learned when I was very young. I must adapt. You know, I. I adapted to the American culture. I adapted to the language. I'm still learning the language. I'm like a computer, you know, Microsoft. You're a dos, and then you got the Windows on top sometimes, I think in Spanish.

[Interviewer]

I can imagine.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird, but after all these years, you know. But that's my programming. That's the way I was programmed.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, it all begins when you're. When you're a child. You get programming from your parents, you get programming from your school and then from tv.

[Interviewer]

But were you. Were your teenage years, though, in. In in the New York area. The reason I'm asking. Yes. Because if you remember. Yes. Radio back then was very regional.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So the music you would have heard in the 1960s.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

In New York, a lot of doo wop, you know what I mean?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I got there in 63.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Right before the storm happened.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, but it was still kind of doo wop and.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It sure was. I mean, it was black and white.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

My life was black and white.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, it went from a kind of like sepia in Havana to black and white. And then 1964, February 9th, Beatles are.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Living color.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Everything changed.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Especially culturally because, you know, when my family moved to West New York, there were not enough Cubans there. They had some Puerto Ricans. Most of the Puerto Ricans were in the Bronx, you know, so it was mainly Irish and Italian and they, you know, they had the little neighborhoods and blocks and the same thing. In school, they hung out with each other.

[Interviewer]

Oh, sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And so I was kind of like, so what.

[Interviewer]

What group did you hang out with?

[Rudy Sarzo]

No group, but my little brother.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

My brother. That's it. And then overnight after the Beatles appearance, you know, Will went from having pompadours like Frankie Valli, like, combing it down. And now it was like we were identified by. We had an identity, a collective consciousness now. And that's when everything broke down that wall.

[Interviewer]

Because of rock and roll.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I never heard it put that way.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was really beautiful.

[Interviewer]

Well, in a way, I mean, that's been your whole life. Is this. This how rock brings together from people from such different backgrounds in common. In common voice?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, that's.

[Interviewer]

And sorry, but that's also, I think that people who don't like hard rock music and heavy metal don't really understand is that's one of the great strengths of that. Those musical idioms is the fraternity that gets born amongst the fans.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I like to think of it as a collective consciousness.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, I mean, we all gather. I mean, if you're, you know, for me being on stage and you. You have your own perception of you being on stage with what you do and what I do. People ask me how this is. How did it feel to play in La Villa, you know, which. You and I, we play together. And I'm going, well, when I was a. You know, was. When I was a little kid, my parents used to take me to. To the beach. I was two years old, put me in a blanket, and I would spend hours looking at the Ocean. And the first time that I played in a stadium with Ozzy, as soon as I went on stage, I went, it's the beach. This is great. It's an ocean of souls up there. It became the same thing.

[Interviewer]

Very spiritual here.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. So every time I play in a large venue, it brings that memory back.

[Interviewer]

That's beautiful.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It's very, very comforting.

[Interviewer]

So what were you seeing on television or hearing on the radio or hearing on the street? Beyond the obvious things like the Beatles, what really touched you personally?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Frankie Valley in the Four Seasons. That was as close to rock and roll as we got.

[Interviewer]

What a great artist Frankie is. I mean, such cool music. Again, that New Yorky doo woppy thing, right? But. Yes, but they had such a unique take on it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Very unique. As a matter of fact, a couple days ago, I just watched the. The Jersey Boys for the first time, you know, and I. Because, you know, there's been videos on, on, on YouTube about Frankie Valli standing up on stage and lip syncing and looking like he doesn't even know where he's at or. And after watching his story. I get it, I get it. This is a man who, as soon as he had his first break, this is all he knew.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Getting up and for him to be on stage is to be alive, basically.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, but who, Who. Okay, so Frankie Valli. Anybody else from that, from that group?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, you know, we had the maybe early Beach Boys, but then it was. It was like rock radio was born out of the Beatles now, because it wasn't. It was the British Invasion.

[Interviewer]

So were you a British Invasion fan?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes. They opened the doors and then Ed Sullivan every week saw bringing the Stones of the Kinks or, you know, the Animals.

[Interviewer]

But you know, like back in the day, like some people were Stones fans versus Beatles. Like, where'd you.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, I was Beatles all the way because it brought me into ap.

[Interviewer]

They were the gateway for. Yeah, everything that followed.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, it did. It just. It finally gave me an identity that I was looking for.

[Interviewer]

Can you explain that a little bit more? Sorry, explain that a little bit more. Like, when you say identity, like, how does that give you the identity or an identity?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I stopped being invisible.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I, as a Cuban kid in West New York with not a whole lot of Latinos, I was the invisible kid in the, in the classroom. Until one day, Christmas Day, I was. I was very fat when I was little because I grew up on the, on government cheese. You know, my parents being Cuban refugees.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, we were given these.

[Interviewer]

I can't imagine you fat.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm sorry. Nothing would get you fat quicker than government cheese. Government cheese. And, you know, we were given army rations and actual like little, like metallic.

[Interviewer]

My dad used to get those sometimes for some reason, because I remember what they looked like.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, you remember.

[Interviewer]

So, you know, I don't know why we got those.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, it was like plain wrapped.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, but I remember the box and it's a box. To me, it's like going to Costco. It's the same. They gave me a box and I put all my stuff in there. And so it was the government cheese. Powder eggs, powdered milk, peanut butter, and a couple of other things that. Army rations. So I blew up. Oh, Spam. We used to call it refugee meat Spam, you know. Smells so bad.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, so my mom would take the powder eggs and the, and make all these refugee outlets and I, I, I, I got really, really heavy. I was about a 190 pounds when I was like 15, 16. And, and so they were looking for somebody to wear the Santa Claus suit. And one of the teachers says, well, we got one in my classroom. So they brought this on.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God.

[Rudy Sarzo]

They took me out of the room that took me to another room and say, here, wear this, and go from room to room.

[Interviewer]

Did you know it was because they thought you were fat?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Did it bother me?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I know, because as soon as they, they said, oh, he doesn't need a pillow.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God. Did that bother you though?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I knew I was fat. It was not in denial about that. And I tried so hard to lose the weight. My parents took me. This is, you know, again, 60s New York. Something out of like a Midnight Cowboy, you know, you get that feel the streets, you know, the look of the people and all that. Right. So we're in New York and my parents take me to this building and we go up this elevator and there's a, a line of people getting. It's like diet. It was like a diet doctor.

[Interviewer]

Like a, were they getting like shots.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Dr. Feel good.

[Interviewer]

Dr. Feel good shots of amphetamine or something?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah. But I didn't know what they were getting me. So there would be like a, like a assembly line.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And I went in there and they took my poles and then they gave me shots and they gave me these pills at the end of the line and went home and take one, take one of these in the morning, take one of this in the afternoon and one of these at night. And I was in constant at school, at the gym class, like, what Is going on, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So that didn't work. And it wasn't until my family moved back to Miami, like in 1967, that in my last year of high school, that I lost about 60 pounds.

[Interviewer]

So when's the base show up in all this?

[Rudy Sarzo]

The base. Okay. So when we went back to Miami, I. My, My parents went in Christmas 63, just after Kennedy got shot. Just to. To, you know, to cheer up my brother and me, they bought us a Spiegel catalog acoustic guitar.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, it's. It's like zebra striped, yellowish. And so, so my brother shared that. See, for, for while, while we were kids, we shared everything. Because they could not afford two.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

They could barely afford one.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But two. Okay. And so we share the same guitar. And, and so I took that guitar. That guitar was with me for a long, long time. And so I went down to. We're back in Miami. I go down to each block had a band. You cannot join the band across the street. You have to stick with your block.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Neighborhood band.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So we go there and it's in a garage and nobody has amplifiers. It's just like a drummer had a phone book. Phone books were thick back then.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, and he had some real drumsticks. Okay, that was his. He had a box and a. And a phone book that snare and kick.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That was the drummer. And then a bunch of guys with acoustic guitars. And I go, hi, introduce myself. And I said, I. I want to be in your band. And they say. I say, well, we got too many guitar players. If you want to join, you got to play bass. And I go, what's that?

[Interviewer]

And they say, because nobody wants to play bass.

[Rudy Sarzo]

What is the bass? He says, it's like playing a solo during the whole song. Just sign.

[Interviewer]

And you're still soloing.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm still soloing. So my parents, I beg my parents to go to Sears. And again, dead on credit Silvertone amp with. I picked the one that had the most input so everybody could plug in their instruments.

[Interviewer]

I know the amp you're talking about job security.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, you, you. You're the guy with the amplifier that everybody needs to plug into, you know.

[Interviewer]

So that one sing into, you know, also would have to be some guy want to sing through the amp too.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Mike. Well, you know, we. We have various singers and most of them bought their own tape recorder and they use. Somehow they use the speaker from the tape recorder.

[Interviewer]

But. Okay, so what was your first base?

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was like a Zim Guard.

[Interviewer]

Zimgar.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Zim Guard. I don't know. And then my second one was the Kingston.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And then my third was a Gibson EB because of Jack Bruce.

[Interviewer]

Slow down. We're getting a headache.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I like you with this. The Sears Guitaria. So how do you pick up and go to la? I'm. I still don't understand.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, well, actually, so I know I jump.

[Interviewer]

I know I jump ahead a bit, but it gets to all the good stuff.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That's fine. Because everything else kind of like builds up to that question that you're going to ask me. La. Okay. So we're in Florida, my brother and me, we have, you know, we're playing club bands and then disco comes in. This is early 70s, and it got to the point that you have to start wearing matching outfits.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And there's this playlist. These are the songs you're going to play if you want to work.

[Interviewer]

And the club. The club would give you the playlist.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. They hire some guy who. Okay, the circuit was. This is South Florida.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Playing Big Daddy's Lounge.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So if. Yeah. Which actually would, you know, if this is what you really wanted to do with your life, it was great because it was like big daddies in every city and you go and spend a week here and spend a week there.

[Interviewer]

Ah. So it's like a circuit.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It's a circuit completely. But I wanted to be a recording artist and, you know, playing bands like Led Zeppelin and all my Cuban musicians says, you're out of your mind. It's not gonna happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I said, well, did they say that because they. Because of you being Cuban or they just thought it was just an impossible dream?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, it's.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's because in their mind. Because they weren't seeing people like you on television or in the music culture.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, come on.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The only guy in television that was Cuban was Ricky Ricardo. That's.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, Cuban Pete.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

You know, so. So.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So we leave, my brother and me, we went up in Utica, New York, and the band that we had disbanded, so my brother and our keyboard player, who. Who was my brother's girlfriend, Susie, they. They get married and they settle in Paramus. Actually. They got. Yeah. In Paramus. And then I said, well, you're married now, so it's time for me to move on, you know, because I was dead weight, but right there.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was like you guys, you know, you start your family and I'm going to keep pursuing this. And so I grabbed my SVT one guitar and one suitcase. Put it on a train from Newark to Chicago.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And I got off the train. Some people were meeting me there, and we started putting out. We put a band together that actually moved from the Chicago area.

[Interviewer]

Did you play in Chicago?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, I played everywhere.

[Interviewer]

What year would it have been?

[Rudy Sarzo]

75.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Now, it's funny because my father was playing Chicago at the band. Well, he had a band at one point around that time. It was called Crystal. Crystal, yeah. Really good band. African American singer, was really talented. My dad's best friend around that time, Chaka Khan was.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Was singing.

[Interviewer]

But my dad used to play with the musicians in Chaka Khan, so he was in that circle.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So isn't it funny, on some possible timeline, you and my father would have crossed paths?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, we probably did. I mean, we were playing because, you.

[Interviewer]

Know, back then there weren't that many bands.

[Rudy Sarzo]

No. Do you know Mickey Free?

[Interviewer]

Don't know that name.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, he had a band called Smokehouse. Okay. You know, this is at the time with the Thumbs. Cheap Trick had just gotten signed.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So it was that. That power pop sound when that was first.

[Interviewer]

First coming in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So did you like that type of music? Was that. I mean, what. What are you thinking musically at this moment? At the time, you want to be glam rock?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Glam rock, yeah. That was my.

[Interviewer]

So who. Who. Who in glam rock are you trying.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Bowie. Bowie, yeah, that was it. Yeah, Bowie. And then everything that came out come along with that.

[Interviewer]

But, you know, Bowie had great bassists, you know.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, they did.

[Interviewer]

This is. Are you setting up? Herbie Flowers? Bowie.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Herbie Flowers. And. And what's his name? Spiders from Mars Base.

[Interviewer]

Is it Woody?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Trevor Boulder.

[Interviewer]

Trevor Boulder.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. I met Trevor. Oh, we. I love.

[Interviewer]

What a great bass player.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That's how I got the. The Quiet Riot gig. Because they were looking for a bass player that could play like Trevor with his fingers, because everybody else in LA was using picks to play and travel. Is it. Trevor Boulder has been an incredible influence on me.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's fantastic. So I didn't know that about you.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But how do we get to la?

[Rudy Sarzo]

So, you know, we.

[Interviewer]

We're gonna get there eventually.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Eventually. We had a manager that was getting us gigs, you know, but again, you know, all the money was funneled through him. And. And one day they. They came in and repossessed the U Haul truck that we were using to move our equipment with back to Spinal Tap. Frankie Benelli was. Was in the band at the time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

With all of his vintage percussion gear. And that was heartbreaking, you know. So we said, we. We have to get out of here. I mean, we were playing everywhere. We were playing Mothers. We were playing Rush Up, Rush West.

[Interviewer]

My dad used to play Mothers all the time.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Huey's. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're playing the whole circuit. And so we said, you know what? We have to get out of here.

[Interviewer]

What's so beautiful. Sorry, but what's so beautiful is. I know. I know exactly the world that you were inhabiting in 1975, because I was there. You know, I would go in and sound checks during the day in those clubs with my father. So I know exactly what that smelled like, felt like, what the people like, what they dressed like.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Did you envision doing what you got to do with Smashing Pumpkin at that time?

[Interviewer]

No. No. My father didn't want me to play music. He was totally against it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I mean, being in the same scene as he was, I can see why.

[Interviewer]

Okay, see, that's nice that you're saying that, because that's what he always would say is like, it's not life for you. Because he had such a hard time with that scene.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, See, for me, being a starving musician was a step up from being a Cuban refugee.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I get that. At least your destiny is in your own hand, right? There's a feeling to that.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So no matter how bad it got, we. I. And it got pretty bad right before I had my. My epiphany, you know, basically, you know, people come to me for advice. You know, how do I do this, how to do that? And my advice is, be prepared. Show up prepared, and let God take over.

[Interviewer]

What's the epiphany? Tell me. The epiphany. It's probably in this book.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It is in the book. It's early on, which you just gave.

[Interviewer]

Me a copy of. Thank you so much.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Off the rails.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, off the rails. It's not a plug.

[Interviewer]

I like plugging things. No, I love to re. I love to. As beautiful these interviews are. I mean, nothing replaces a book because it's in your own voice, in your own pace. Right.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So, yeah, yeah. My only advice is that when I wrote it, you know, I stood. I sat in front of a computer like, you. You got the first page, it's blank. And I'm going like, okay, how am I going to do this? Hugh Grant show up and narrated the whole book to me. It did. It did. It was amazing. So if you. When you so read it in the.

[Interviewer]

Voice of Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant's voice, but with a Cuban.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Accent, a little bit more like, you know, Tony Montana means if Hugh Grant would have done Tony Wisconsin.

[Interviewer]

Okay. All right. Last time. Let's get to la.

[Rudy Sarzo]

We're almost there. That's a long way. So anyway, so we were in. So three of us, you know, we burnt out the whole scene in Chicago and said, you know, we gotta get out of here.

[Interviewer]

And it was good decision, by the way.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, yes, it was. It was. But it was the only decision we had.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was like no other choice. We gotta go, we gotta get a record deal, we gotta put a band together and so on. And, you know, the people who have, like, mind, you know, mind about direction that we want to do. So it was Frankie Bonelli and, you know, Bob Barlett, of course. That was our keyboard player.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, yeah. We drove from Lincoln, Nebraska, which is where Bob's family is from, in his dad's station wagon with a small U Haul, because you had to carry his V3. Of course, back in the day, lifting.

[Interviewer]

Those things up and downstairs couldn't have been fun.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, rush up. Oh, yeah. With Leslie, of course, you know. So we venture over to. In 1977, to LA, and we got there. So we're in LA, now we're in LA. And there was a circuit of ladies that would welcome musicians from out of town. And they kind of like, you spend a week here, then you spend a week over there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Is this groupies or friends of the.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Band or a bit of, you know, groupies? It has such a sour connotation, you know, if it was. You have a better word, most of us would have never made it, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

They were kind souls, you know. Yeah. You know.

[Interviewer]

Kind soul.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Thank God.

[Interviewer]

An association of kind souls.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, thank God.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I get it, I get it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Yeah. So here I am. And. And we ran out of money in 77, of course. So Bob.

[Interviewer]

As you do.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, Bob went in his own way and Frankie went his own way, and I went back to New Jersey, got some money together with my brother, playing in a lounge club in the whole New Jersey circuit. Howard Johnson's. Okay, a lot of Howard Johnson.

[Interviewer]

But the idea is you're going to come back once you get some money.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, I was going to get money together, and I did. And I got my ticket. And two days before I was going to fly back to la, I got a phone call from Kevin Dubrow and he says, hey, man, we're looking for a Bass player. And everybody tells me that you're the guy because, you know, they were looking for a guy who played with the fingers, like Trevor. And so I said, hey, I'm going to be there in a couple of days. I'll give you a call.

[Interviewer]

And you'd seen them play before?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, I did, but that's a different question.

[Interviewer]

Well, I'm saying you had some connection to the. To the group.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Very. A very small connection, sure.

[Interviewer]

But. But it's funny how those things work. Well, do you like, for example, do you like Al Green?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So Willie Mitchell, who produced Al Green and was the drummer, was playing a gig in Memphis. I hope I get the story right. And you know, back in the day, you know how those things were like somebody get up and sing a couple songs or something. It was kind of a loose vibe. So Al Green gets up and sings with Willie Mitchell's band and he's just met this guy. And Al Green goes, hey, I gotta get back to Green Bay or something. Can you lend me like $400 or some. It was a pretty. For the 70s or 60s, whatever. It was a pretty significant. And he, for some reason, he just trusted him and he lent him the money. And a year later, Al Green camp comes back to Memphis. And that's what started Al Green, the Al Green that we all know. Wow. With that guy, that same musician. So what I'm saying is life has a way of.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, it does. My whole life.

[Interviewer]

I mean, your whole life is literally if you hadn't gone to a Starwood or whatever that night and met Kevin Dubrow or seen Quiet Riot.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, the same thing happened with Frankie Benelli, but then again, that's another story. But I can.

[Interviewer]

But that's what I'm saying. There's something beautiful about how those things work.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I went to see David Bowie on the only tour he did in the United States as Ziggy Stardust.

[Interviewer]

There was only one.

[Rudy Sarzo]

72 ye. Yeah, only one. And they played at Pirates World in Miami. And.

[Interviewer]

Sorry, it just sounds so funny. Did it look like Pirates World?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Pirates World was an amusement park that had a. Even better a stage, you know, and did, did, did.

[Interviewer]

How was. How was the attendance?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, it sold out.

[Interviewer]

Because, you know, in. Because that. The famous thing about that tour. Because it's only Ziggy's tour that he did. Yeah. Certain dates it was like sold out and.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then other places, like nobody would come because they didn't know who he was.

[Rudy Sarzo]

South Florida had a huge gay community, you know, so he Was very, very supported there.

[Interviewer]

So that. So you got to see that lineup.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I got to see that.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But more, most important was that I got to see the opening band, which was. Which was a band called Ginger.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I had no idea who these guys are. I'm from Miami, they're from Fort Lauderdale. So it's like two different worlds apart from, I mean, the Latin, you know, Cubans, trying to sound like, you know, like Three Dog Knight as you do. And he was. Frankie was playing, you know, with American musicians.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you know, was Frankie. Frankie even then as a drummer? Oh, yeah, you know, very.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, even more. Even more. I mean, or because he was younger.

[Interviewer]

How do you turn that down, you mean? No, you know what I mean? He's always been one of those. Yeah, God bless him. I know he's.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. But no, because he was younger and sometimes he's. You know, sometimes when you start working with certain people, things started sure. Chipping away from you, you know, that you kind of like conform to.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But I think that's funny that he was an outsized personality. The first time he ever saw.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, he was ruthless. I mean, he was so ruthless, you know, as he got older. But there was a certain innocence. Yeah. About his ruthlessness when he played, you know. And so anyways, so I, I walk in and I. The. The opening band is playing and I'm going, oh my God, this guy. Sing the drummer. See, this guy's amazing, you know. So Bowie comes down and he does his thing. And so the next day is my birthday, November 18th, and we're at the place called the Flying Machine, which was a club in full auto deal where everybody got together. And that was the rock club. And so I'm talking to some people and they go, hey, that's one of the guys that opened up for Bowie last night. And I run over and I go, it was Frankie. I thought he was the bass player. And I go, hey, man. You know, I saw you guys last night with Bowie. I love the band, especially your drummer. I thought he was amazing. And he's just letting me talk Bowie and he's like smiling. Then he goes, hi, I'm Frankie, I'm the drummer. We started playing the next day.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, because the band had broken up anyway, so that was kind of like a last minute replacement for somebody else.

[Interviewer]

See, that's again, this fate, right?

[Rudy Sarzo]

So that was 1972. So fast forward to 1977 and I wasn't looking for a gig. I was playing with Frankie and Bob Marlette and you know, A couple of the other guys. And we had a singer, 20 childs. I don't know if you remember her.

[Interviewer]

I do, I do, yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

15, 16 years old.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So, yeah, we met at the Parking Rainbow, parking lot.

[Interviewer]

Crazy.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And we put a band together. It was called Scarab.

[Interviewer]

Scarab, that's a good name.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The Beatles Scarab, you know, but still.

[Interviewer]

It has a kind of a. Yeah. Mystical.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Mystical name to it. Yeah. So. So Quiet Riot. So I, you know, I. I'm in LA, 1977, and, you know, every night you went out, because that's. If you did not go out, you might miss that. Great to meet.

[Interviewer]

So it's networking and networking, you know.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So every. Everybody was saying, hey, man, you know, you gotta go see this band, Van Halen. They're playing the whiskey 1977. And I go, okay. So I tried to get in and it's like, well, sold out. Okay. And so some guys are saying, well, you know, there's a. There's a club down the street called the Starwood. And, you know, I'm wearing my 6 inch heels and walking down for about a mile to connect.

[Interviewer]

Thankfully, now. You're skinny. You're skinny now because you're poor, but you're skinny.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Starving musician. It was Biafra at that time, which, which really, you know, like this whole 80s fashion of us looking very feminine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

We didn't have any money to buy clothes. So, you know, let's say you went home with some girl to her place.

[Interviewer]

A friend, a kind.

[Rudy Sarzo]

A kind girl. They were very kind. And you get up in the morning, you go through the closet, and you pick something to wear that weekend with.

[Interviewer]

Your band that was clean.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, it was so. So that was the fashion sense of the. Of the. Of the strip bands. Right. Okay. So I make it to the Starwood and I'm kind of like, you know, it was a different crowd than. Than the Rainbow. It was more like younger crowd. Yeah. I'm like, okay, local crowd too. There was less of the expatriates that moved from England, you know, to now they're living in la. So there was more of that sense.

[Interviewer]

Useful. And.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. And now at the Star wars, like local kids, you know, and so the band comes on and they have a production going on. Quiet Riot, you know, and they got sirens and. And flashing lights and. And then I see Randy, I go, wow. You know, because by then I've been touring in a.

[Interviewer]

You've seen plenty of bands. Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

All over the United States going like, you know, playing clubs, seeing what. What else is going on. I'll see these guys. And I go, wow, they're. They're better prepared for the next step than everybody that I've seen, you know, so far. So, you know, Randy's the one that caught my attention and they had an image, they had a presentation.

[Interviewer]

Did you. Did you understand Randy's talent right away?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Absolutely. It was. It was a glimpse.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Because he had so much more than just what he was doing on stage, but at least it was a glimpse into everything.

[Interviewer]

It's funny because if you go back and listen to the music that he was making, then certainly he can play. He can play. But the Randy that comes later hasn't quite gotten there yet.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, I mean, I can tell you about the day that he came over my place and played me the Blizzard Boss record. And remember, we had just been playing for about a year before that together.

[Interviewer]

And you knew him very well and he was your friend and.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And I was teaching at his mom's school, so we spent a lot of time together. And I listened to. And I go, what happened? And he says, well, I asked Ozzy what he wanted me to write and he said, be yourself. He could not be himself in la.

[Interviewer]

Can you explain that a little bit more? What that mean?

[Rudy Sarzo]

What that the music industry, they wanted.

[Interviewer]

So everyone wants to get signed and they're trying to figure out what they need to do, get signed. So it's more about.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

If at that time punk and new wave had come in.

[Interviewer]

That's right.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, and if you were not Devo, if you were not the knack in the motels, they were not interested in you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Glam rock had already passed, you know, and so what we were doing as Quiet Riot was dinosaur music, quote unquote, from the record companies, you know, that's why Randy left to join Ozzy, you know, and. But anyways, to that night. Going back to the night. So Quiet Ride finished the set, and then I see Kevin Dubroy walking around the club and I go up to him just like I did with Frankie. It's my nature. I always do that. Not because I'm looking for a gig, but just because I like to tell people, hey, you're on the right track. I really appreciate what you're doing, you know, Keep doing it.

[Interviewer]

What was it about? What was it about what he was doing that caught your ear? You know what I'm saying? It's easy sometimes to look at. You know, Obviously Quiet Riot made this seminal record and you were part of that. But what is it in that night that you think. And you know. Cause like, clubs bad sound like, what. What made you go, I gotta say something to this guy?

[Rudy Sarzo]

In a club environment. It was a showcase club. National acts would play there too. They checked all the boxes.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so what are the boxes for you?

[Rudy Sarzo]

They had a vision. They had a production, a presentation. What they really needed was better songs. And when we were young, we had this romantic vision, you know, idea that some big time producer was going to come in and magically change everything and fix everything, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So we thought, okay, we're going to take this as far as we can.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But every time that we try that, it's. Every time we would do a demo and come back with the demo, whatever they were asking us to sound like was passe.

[Interviewer]

I see. So that. That period when. Before Randy leaves and you're in quiet riot in that period, how long is that? Is that 77?

[Rudy Sarzo]

78.

[Interviewer]

So it's a year. Ish.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, I'm sorry. 78, 79.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so how long is that a year? Do you.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, 78 and 79. So I would say about a year and a half.

[Interviewer]

So it's like, we're going to make it and nobody wants us.

[Rudy Sarzo]

A lot of heartbreaks.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, painful. We tried everything. We. We're having a meeting at Randy's house and what are we going to do? The record companies are not paying attention. And I say just like, you know, something stupid say, yeah, why don't we get our fans and take him and have him pick it in front of the Renco.

[Interviewer]

I know this story. Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And Kevin goes, that's a great idea. And I said, I'm kidding. He says, no, no, let's do this. So we get two flatbed trucks. Flatbed. This is a. An insurance nightmare. You could have gotten sued for it. Something happened to any.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you're not thinking about getting sued.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Exactly, exactly. He just said we had two roadies, two of our roadies to drive it. Yes, of course they did that. So the first stop was Warner Brothers.

[Interviewer]

And. And you went to every label.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yes, but what happened was in one in. In Burbank, you had to have a permit to demonstrate.

[Interviewer]

Ah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So they got kicked. Get out of here, kids. And so everything got off because we. We had a publicist that was trying to get, you know, journalists down to cover the whole event.

[Interviewer]

Okay, Right.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So on the last one, cbs, because, you know, it was routed. You know, CBS and being Santa Monica, that was the last stop that. That's. The cameras showed up. You Know, with reporters. Okay, we got that. And then we got one person that called up the band and says, hey, I'm interested in what you guys did. Let's have a meeting. So we show up there and to his office, and the guy goes, okay. It brings out Billboard magazine says, okay, you see this Rod Stewart song, Do you think I'm sexy? If you guys come up with a song like this, we might have a demo deal. So we rushed over and we wrote a do you think I'm sexy? Sound alike. It was called One in a Million.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You can hear it on YouTube.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And we go back, do you think I'm sexy? It's off the charts. Not there anymore. So the guy goes, I'm sorry, we're not really interested in. Wait. And that's.

[Interviewer]

That was it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That was it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So Randy gets the call. I know he'd had some brief encounter with Sharon in la, but then he gets the call to go to England because they hadn't been able to find.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Somebody in England for Ozzy or in Los Angeles. Neither.

[Interviewer]

Okay, right. Because. Yeah. So did you know Randy had gotten that call? And were you in the loop at that time?

[Rudy Sarzo]

We had just finished rehearsal that evening. And I go, randy. I see Randy packing more than usual, and I go, what are you doing after rehearsal? He says, well, this guy Dana Strum, you know, the bass player from Slaughter.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

He keeps calling me because there's this guy Ozzy Osbourne from Singer from Black Sabbath, and he's putting a band together, and he's been bugging me, Dana, not Ozzy. To come down on audition for him. And I just want him to stop calling me. So I'm just gonna go and, you know, and play. I say, I saw Tony. I can't believe it. Because at that time, we had hit the wall. We were just like, you know, options.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was like. So I tell him, oh, man, are you kidding? Yeah, go. Because I. I've been trying to get in touch with. With Aussie's people so I could audition for it, you know, because at that time, we were just.

[Interviewer]

You were trying to get in touch.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I was trying to get in everybody in town. Everybody. Yeah. Except for Randy. He didn't care about it, you know.

[Interviewer]

So Randy, he wasn't even particularly a fan, right? I mean.

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, he wasn't. Yeah, he wasn't. But, you know, situations like that make it even better, because then you're. The last thing Ozzy needed was a.

[Interviewer]

Fanboy in the band or a fake Tony. Iommi.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So he had no Tony Iommi influence in his playing, but he had a lot of classical music influence, you know, which I found out when I started teaching at his school. And in between lessons, Musonia, his family had. I still have it. It's in North Hollywood. And between lessons, I would hear Randy playing acoustic classical music. And I go, I didn't know you play like that. He says, well, this is not for Quiet Riot, so I cannot really, you know, bring songs like these, you know, and that's what. But he was able to bring that out playing with Ozzy.

[Interviewer]

Were you in touch with them when he did get the gig in. In England and was making the first couple records?

[Rudy Sarzo]

It's not like today that you can text somebody. You. Back then, it was like.

[Interviewer]

But like. Like you were still teaching at the family.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yes, I was.

[Interviewer]

So you knew? Kind of.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I asked his mom. Yeah, how. How's Randy doing?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And she. She would give me an update, which would be like, he. He. He would write postcards. That was his updates.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you had some sense it was going well. He's got the gig, he's recording.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And, you know, we all know if you're recording, that means somebody's paying. That means something's happening.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I didn't even know he was in town when I got the phone call that they were auditioning and they wanted me to come in to audition from Sharon. I didn't even know he was in town.

[Interviewer]

Okay. This is later, though.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Later, 1981. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So you kind of bounce around for a while. You're not really sure what you're doing. Quiet ride kind of dissipates for a while.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. As soon as Randy left, choir riot ceased to exist.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you thought, that's it. It's done.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. So I. I cut my hair.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you went new wave?

[Rudy Sarzo]

I went new wave.

[Interviewer]

Skinny tie.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, you know, it.

[Interviewer]

It.

[Rudy Sarzo]

A lot of the new wave music that we were doing, we. We put it. We put a band together. It was Frankie Benelli, Pete Kameda, who was the guitar player in the Thumbs.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Chicago.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Who later became the second bass player in Cheap Trick.

[Interviewer]

That's how I know his name.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When they. When they. And I know I've never met Pete.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But it was weird because they, you know, Cheap Trick basically hired someone who looked like Tom to try to trick everyone that he was Tom, which is. I always felt bad for Pete. It's a weird gig. Like, you kind of look like Tom, but you're not Tom.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And it was Pete.

[Interviewer]

Well, now that's what I'm saying. That's how I know the name.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, I love Pete. And. And then we have Bob James, who was the second singer in Montrose.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. And so Pete was. His girlfriend was Barbara Baker. Right. Thomas Baker's wife, or ex wife at the time.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But they were all living in the same house.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's. Roy liked an open life, let's put it that way. God bless him.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Okay. So. So all of a sudden, now Barbara is taking care of the band.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

We were called a Private army.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And we started going in the studio like Cherokee and so on to.

[Interviewer]

And the idea is to get a record deal as kind of a new wavish band.

[Rudy Sarzo]

New wavish band. But, you know, it's like, we. Look, just because we had shorter hair didn't mean that we sounded like we had shorter hair. Right. So we wrote, you know, the main writers in the song Reach out and Take it, which actually wound up as a Cheap Trick song on Heavy Metal. The Animated.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Movie. Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I didn't know that one.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. So we did the original one. Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer]

I have to look that one up.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And. And here's the irony. So we did the song with one of the Roy Thomas Baker's engineers at Cherokee. And Pete gives it to Roy and he says, now, I don't like the song. There's nothing original. Right. Then he turns around and produces that song sounding exactly the same as what we did in the demo for the soundtrack of the movie.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's rock and roll. Right?

[Rudy Sarzo]

What are you gonna do? You know?

[Interviewer]

So that band. That band never got signed.

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, it was kind of. It never got signed la. Almost. Pete left to join Trip.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, and then shortly after that, I. I joined Ozzy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Which leads me to the next question, because in there is the epiphany.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The epiphany. So, you know, I'm playing in Dubrow, Kevin Spam. And this is after Private Army. Just. This is like, you know. So Kevin says, how would you like to, you know, move in with me and. And join, you know, play with me, you know? Dubro says, well, you know, I don't have a better choice right now. And I love playing with Kevin. And, you know, we got along great. It was a whole different cabin at the time. You know, it was. It wasn't the rock star Kevin, it was just Kevin, you know, and so, you know, I have been on a spiritual journey for a while. You know, I mean, as a matter of fact, you know, once you get in the book, if I tell you that it's really a spiritual journey, that's what the whole book. But it's. It's not in your face.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I just mentioned it once. And I figure if somebody's gonna get it, it's gonna get it as soon as I say it one time.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And so there were. There were two phases to it. One, the first phase of my. Of my epiphany as I'm laying in bed and I'm meditating. And I hear this. Have my eyes closed. And I'm here, this buzzing, really high pitched. And open my eyes and there's this circles of energy.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Floating over my head.

[Interviewer]

Like a visual representation too.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It was really a circle.

[Interviewer]

No, and I believe you. I'm saying. I'm just trying to picture it.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. It was. Okay. It looked like a fan where you put a fan and start spinning. And then the center has more of a solid mass because it's holding the blades. And then you got the blades who are more transparent. And it's like hovering over me. And I'm going, okay, I. I don't want this to disappear if I move.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

So I'm just stood still in bed. I'm laying down, and then it hovers over me and it goes to my feet. And then it projects itself on the white wall.

[Interviewer]

The.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The room was all white. And I started seeing visions of things in 3D because they were spinning. And then it goes back into that solid circle. And I've been aware of it ever since.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It's with me all the time.

[Interviewer]

Do you think it was an awakening to a sentience or a greater sense of. Because there's a lot of belief now with quantum physics that time space as we perceive it is not what we think it is.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm a true believer of that. I went. I went down the rabbit hole with. With quantum physics during COVID And it's. It's. I'm a different person for it.

[Interviewer]

Did you. Do you see the. Do you see what you've experienced or saw as a spiritual thing or more of a quantum thing?

[Rudy Sarzo]

To me, they're the same.

[Interviewer]

Okay. They're indistinguishable.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

You ascribe it to a particular religion or it doesn't. It doesn't matter.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm Christian.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm Christian. So, you know, after that, at that time, you remember this is LA night, early 70s. It was the new age.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Spirituality.

[Interviewer]

You had a bunch of personality cults out here in la.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And all of that. So everybody was into something, you know, and somebody turned me onto T. Lopson Rampa, which was a Tibetan monk, and he had a series of books. And that's how I got into meditation. It was kind of like not the right path, but it was the path leading me to that. And then after that, I read the whole. The New Testament and the Old Testament and the New Testament. One book Bible that I still have with. It's in my possession. And at the end of it, I came to the. That's. That's when I had my epiphany. I said, you know, I made peace with God. I'm. I'm sleeping on the floor, shag carpeting on a Flash Gordon sheet that somebody gave me. And I made peace with God that as long as my fingers kept moving, I was going to keep going. But my relationship with God was more important than anything else. That was it. I just let it go.

[Interviewer]

When you say let it go. The stress of life, the worry about what's going to happen to me.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Just.

[Rudy Sarzo]

All I knew was to be prepared and just let God take over. That's it. Okay, let's show up to everything that I'm doing. If I have an audition, I'm gonna be prepared.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But the final decision is up to God.

[Interviewer]

So Randy's with Ozzy, Bob Daisley bangs off in one of their famous rows, which went on for forever. In, out, in, out. And you end up getting the gig. Did Randy have influence on that?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Well, Randy is the one who told Ozzy and Sharon about me, that I existed. I had no rescue.

[Interviewer]

Hence you getting an audition.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It happened twice. So, you know, a couple of days after my epiphany. And I was playing in the band called angel, too.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, the famous Southern California Angel.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, the Monkey Meadows.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

You know, Angel. But they had just lost their record deal to Casablanca.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And so it was kind of like. But. But I was happy. I loved the guys. They were really nice. It was cool hang. And I was playing an angel, you know, I had an identity.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I mean, the band angel, you know, they were.

[Interviewer]

They were big band.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, they were a big band. Yeah. And so I really liked them enough that when I got the first call from Sharon and says, I. Kevin Dubrow answers the phone, he says, hey, Rudy, is somebody calling you? And I go, everybody knows me.

[Interviewer]

Hello.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Oh, hi, Rudy. This is Sharon and Aussie's manager. Randy tells me about you and we want you to come out to audition. And something that I Learned later on in life, even though I quit drinking 28 years ago. But recently, within the last maybe five years, when I joined AA, I learned that I'm an alcoholic. So one of my alcoholic decisions was to turn down because I was shooting from the hip.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I didn't think about it, didn't meditate on it, didn't say, wow, that sounds great.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Yeah. When you. You know what I mean? I didn't not take.

[Interviewer]

So your first reaction was just, no, thank you.

[Rudy Sarzo]

No, thanks. I'm playing an angel on blow. She hangs up on me, okay, so how dare you? How dare you? Exactly. So Kevin goes, who was that? I go, oh, that's Randy's. An Aussie's manager, Sharon. And they wanted me to audition, but, you know, you know, I'm playing an angel. He goes. Then he starts yelling at me and I go, oops, I guess you're right. And so, you know, little did I know that the next day I was going to get a call from Ozzy. Right at that time, I just said, okay, this is you.

[Interviewer]

Let it go.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Let it go, okay? Because I was in that. Let it go. You know, it's okay. I get the second call the next day, and now at that time, it's like, oh, yes.

[Interviewer]

So Ozzy himself called you?

[Rudy Sarzo]

Ozzy himself says, yeah, man, you know, Randy tells me that you're the guy. And we just auditioned a bunch of hacks and. And I said, yes, I'll be there. So Randy picked me up and because they were in a crush, they had to meet and do this whole thing really quickly because within 10 days, that tour.

[Interviewer]

Tour dates coming.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, 10 days they were going on tour. And so they picked me up right after I said yes. And Randy takes me over to the Beverly Hilton and there was a trader Vicks on the knees, and we go, and there's Ozzy and Sharon and Tommy Aldridge.

[Interviewer]

And.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I'm sitting with Ozzy and he's telling me, you know, he's like telling me all about Randy and how much, you know, how much he appreciated him and loved him. And I'm thinking, wow, this is. This is a good place to be in. There's a lot of gratitude and appreciation going on, you know, and. And he just told me at the. At the end of it, he says, man, I get a good vibe from you. Just be able to play.

[Interviewer]

That was it. You didn't even play. You just.

[Rudy Sarzo]

I hadn't played yet for him.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, just. We. We think you're the guy. Let's go yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And so the next day for the audition, Randy shows up at Kevin's place. Because you know, nowadays a 10 year old or a fetus can actually play Crazy Train. Back then it's like I never heard the song. I gotta learn this, you know. So it was like, okay. So Randy goes, okay, it goes, it goes like this, you know, because he needed to like, you know, within an hour we had to be in at a rehearsal place playing these songs live for Ozzy and Sharon. And so he teaches me Crazy Train and, and I don't know, those were the audition songs. So we, he, we go over it. I had to retain it. And then we drive over to rehearsal, we do one, one pass with Tommy and then Ozzy and Sharon show up and they listen to us play the two songs with Ozzy looking at the band. Then Ozzy gets up on stage, we play the songs again. And Ozzie turns to me and says, hey man, do you want the gig? I said yes. And my life went into Panavision color at that moment. It was like, wow, I'm in this world now.

[Interviewer]

Boom. Yeah. Hot band, hot album. Albums right back to back.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And yeah, I had a gig with the most amazing musicians ever played with.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

As a band.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So thank you. Because you know, our interview today is two parts and I don't want to go over the tragic plane crash with Randy because it's been so talked about. But so I thought rather than sort of go over that one more time because it's a painful thing and even as a fan thinking of how painful is having met some of the family through the years just in my own life and even being able to express my gratitude for what a great musician Randy was, I thought it was because you guys were friends. I thought rather than end on tragedy, it's there. It's part of, you know, his story and Ozzy's story and your story, I thought just if you could just talk a little bit about Randy as a musician. Because the shocking thing to me in, in researching, getting ready to talk to you is he was only 25 years old and you think of the music that he produced by the time he was 25 that we're still listening to and we still celebrate him. And even when we did the last Ozzy show together, there was that beautiful moment where Randy's mom kind of talked a little bit and they were able to pay tribute to Ozzy, Randy in the show and was so emotional, you.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Know, it was, it was. Well, you know, after Randy died, I just lost the joy of making music. I mean, I'm still trying to get that feeling of being in a band like that. Not only because of the caliber of the musicianship and the music, but also the caliber of the integrity.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Which is something very rare to find a musicians with the musical integrity of the level of Randy Rhodes. You know, of course you had Ozzy, Ozzy, who went on to. After Randy passed away. I mean, Randy was his first discovery. And I, I look at his career as a career of mentorship and discovering some of the greatest talent in music.

[Interviewer]

It's crazy.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, it is, it is. And diversity. Yeah. He said, you know, I'm, I joined the band, I passed the audition, and there's so many stories that I can tell you about it. But getting to the point, the next day he's doing an interview and there's actually a photo session that goes along with the interview. And they ask him, so who's in the band? And he goes, well, we got Randy Rose. And you know, then he talks about Randy and Tommy Aldridge. And then he says, and we got Rudy from Cuba. That's for Circus magazine. Finally, you know, we did, he did that interview like in April. And I get the, I opened the magazine like in July because it used to take that long. And I'm like, oh, wow, Ozzy interview. Maybe, maybe there's something about us, you know, the guys in the band. I open it and Rudy from Cuba and I went, wow, he doesn't mind that I am from Cuba, you know, And I, I, that was like the. What confirmed it? Because he has, he had always been so gracious, you know, Again, I've been, I've been in the band at that time for like three or four months. Sharon opened her house to me, her family home. I moved in with them. The day that I got the audition, I moved in. Yeah, because I was sleeping on the floor.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And he says, well, you can, we have these bungalows here. You can. And say one of them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Nobody did that for me before Ozzy. We were playing pool. He takes a look at me and he goes, man, you look like you need some rock and roll clothes. I did. I, I, I'm telling you, I was wearing all these girls little outfits, you know, it looks at me. So he goes to his room, brings a suitcase and pours it on the pool table. And he says, grab whatever you want. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's the jacket from that album cover and this magazine. And, and I'm like, I, I can't grab this Is here. Instead of grabbing stuff, it's there. Wear this. And that's what I wore on the first photo session. You know, as far as diversity, me, Cuban. Then he's had all these different nationalities in his band. J.K. lee, you know, we got Randy Castillo, we got Mike Inez, Robert Trujillo. Am I missing anybody?

[Interviewer]

No, but that's. That's. That's what I was saying. Rock and heavy metal is uniquely voiced for bringing people together in a way that other genres just don't seem to do that.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah. Has he worked on Vibe?

[Interviewer]

Very intuitive person.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah, that was it. He didn't care what you look like, where you came from.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's a lot to process. But thank you for sharing that about Randy, because I think that's. You know, when somebody passes, it forces us to look back. Like with Ozzy passing, it forced us to look back. But speaking of Randy, you know, by the time as a fan I even knew what I had, he was gone, you know, because I love those records, and I. I learned guitar to those records, you know, And I knew that he was special, but I didn't know how special, because what do you know when you're 14, 15 years old? You know what I mean? But I love what you said about integrity, because in a way, his talent is so shockingly ahead of its time. You know, he set the template for so much guitar music to follow that, in a way, he almost kind of snuck up on everybody. It was so explosive. And the other thing which you would know is, you know, they did that first album, and then while they were waiting, they went ahead and recorded the second album. So when he made both of those albums, he didn't even know if people were going to like what he did.

[Rudy Sarzo]

When I joined the band, that album was not mixed yet. So maybe a month later, after I joined the band, the cassette appears and Ozzy puts it in the tour bus, listens to it for the very first time. And it was so different from the first one.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

That he hated.

[Interviewer]

Was kind of shocking. Even the first time I heard it. It was a little bit like.

[Rudy Sarzo]

But because it was. It was the future.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Even as a fan in 1982 or whatever was the year, I remember listening to it. Right. The week it came out, thinking, right. Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

It sounded so different because the blizzard is more 70s sounding.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Rudy Sarzo]

The way it's. It's. Yeah. Engineer.

[Interviewer]

Oh, no. Randy's taken off there.

[Rudy Sarzo]

And by the second one, it was like. And Ozzy was not ready for it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rudy Sarzo]

Even though he recorded it. But I think it was more having to do with the mix being kind of like, wet.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rudy Sarzo]

A lot of atmosphere to it, you know? Yeah. And he wanted a little bit of a drier record. Was actually when we did Speak of the Devil. That's a very dry life recording.

[Interviewer]

Sure, sure. Okay, let's stop there. We have so much more to talk about. Well, yeah, End of part.