Podcast Summary: Vernon Reid | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Podcast: The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
Episode: Vernon Reid
Release Date: December 3, 2025

Overview

In this rich, wide-ranging conversation, host Billy Corgan sits down with legendary guitarist, bandleader, and genre-crosser Vernon Reid. They explore Reid’s personal story from early musical influences through artistic struggles and triumphs—from free jazz exploration to global stardom with Living Colour. Together, they discuss creativity, commercial and racial obstacles, artistic evolution, the cost of truth-telling in art, and the state of music’s role in culture, including thoughts about AI and the calling of the musician.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Musical Influences and Formative Experiences

• Introduction to Professional Music

  • Reid credits drummer Ronald Shannon Jackson as a pivotal figure in his musical awakening, describing the moment he was introduced to the world of avant-garde jazz by friend Melvin Gibbs.

    “When your compatriots are willing to listen, you have a brief window. And while they're willing to listen, make hay. Make hay while you may.” — Vernon Reid (00:14)

• Eclectic Upbringing

  • Reid’s parents made “no other judgment” except about volume, supporting his omnivorous taste in music (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Motown, Hendrix, R&B).

    “They only cared about whether it was loud or not...They never turned that noise. They just said, turn it down.” — Vernon Reid (04:15)

• Coltrane as Revelation

  • Both Corgan and Reid recall being electrified upon hearing John Coltrane’s “My Favorite Things,” with Reid marveling at the deep sincerity and innovation in Coltrane’s approach.

    “He put all of that in the horn, and I felt that. And you probably felt that at the same time.” — Vernon Reid (06:59)

The New York Scene: Confrontation and Fusion

• Navigating the Avant-Garde

  • Reid describes the New York art and music scene of the late 70s and early 80s as “confrontational,” particularly spanning the spaces between jazz, punk, and hip-hop.
  • Discusses friction around new forms like hip-hop, often dismissed by older funk and jazz musicians as “novelty,” which he saw as profoundly innovative.

    “This disruptive interruption in the flow of the everyday...like thunder...sudden disruption that appealed to me.” — Vernon Reid (13:03)

• Art and Taste: The Falafel and Bauhaus Analogy

  • Both speakers riff on learning to love new, challenging work, using Bauhaus and falafel as metaphors for developing deeper taste.

    “First time I heard Joseph Spence, I was like, this dude is buggin’. He’s bugging...And then I go, this is the greatest guitarist I’ve ever heard in my life.” — Vernon Reid (16:04)

Founding the Black Rock Coalition (BRC) and the Problem of Categories

• Origins and Motivation

  • Reaction to racial and cultural segregation in music venues and on the radio in early 80s New York; BRC emerged as both an artistic and political pushback against these boundaries.

    “The idea that, you know, that rock music is now white music. Black people don’t play it. And I never accepted the premise.” — Vernon Reid (23:15)

  • Describes nostalgia for more adventurous radio and the increasing corporate “narrow-casting” that calcified genre boundaries (21:42-23:15).

• Injustice and Recognition

  • Frustration with black guitarists like Ernie Isley being ignored by white-dominated guitar press, despite enormous impact and hit records.

    “Ernie Isley deserved to be featured...he literally saved the Isley Brothers.” — Vernon Reid (24:00)

The Journey to Living Colour and Navigating Commercial Success

• Founding and Early Days

  • Living Colour’s fusion of genres reflected Reid’s wide palette; the importance of finding a true vocalist in Corey Glover to express the band’s vision.

    “I was the vocalist...I consider myself an early pioneer of shoe gazing. Because I was so nervous.” — Vernon Reid (30:52)

  • CBGB’s as a laboratory for the band’s sound, fusing influences with punk and experimental approaches.

• Writing “Cult of Personality”

  • Reid recalls the song’s “assembled itself” in a flash of inspiration, with the group responding instantly to the riff.

    “It’s one of the greatest...because from the moment I stumbled on the riff and I yelled at Wilson, yo man, put a beat to this...the song assembled itself using us.” — Vernon Reid (38:30)

• Dealing With Breakout Success

  • Describes commercial breakthrough as surreal and presents the challenge of meeting new expectations.

    “When you’re used to struggling...and suddenly you’re not, it was weird. It’s been weird the whole time.” — Vernon Reid (42:16)

Industry Pressure, Categorization, and Race

• Media & Label Pressure

  • Struggles with how labels and media forced Living Colour into boxes that didn’t fit.

    “They have to fit you in the box. And that in and of itself, is every band. But what’s unfair to you guys is...they never even found a box that was close to the box.” — Billy Corgan (57:34)

  • Notes lack of industry response to BRC’s breakthrough, and how unlike grunge acts, black rock musicians weren’t afforded similar chances or investment (60:00-61:01).

    “We did something...completely unexpected. But what happened when Nirvana broke out...anything from Seattle was getting a look. That didn’t really happen [for us.]” — Vernon Reid (59:19)

• Artistic Pressure Post-Success

  • Band wrestled with the demand for another hit; Reid felt the urge to explore, not repeat.

    “I definitely did. But I also felt like, it felt like to make that...there’s kind of feeling that doing that again would be weird. Would be false.” — Vernon Reid (53:28)

The Cost and Calling of Truth in Art

• Art’s Personal and Social Toll

  • Both discuss the deep, often hidden price artists pay for creating meaningful work.

    "Magic costs. If you're going to work with magic, it's going to cost you." — Vernon Reid (78:09) "So many people have been destroyed. So many people." — Billy Corgan (67:20)

• Conditional Love in the Industry

  • The love of fans and industry is “completely with conditions”—age, fashion, commercial relevance.

    “If you don’t fulfill the conditions, it can be withdrawn. It will be withdrawn.” — Vernon Reid (80:36)

Reflections on Creativity, Influence, and the Future

• Guitar as Lifelong Companion

  • On continuing to grow, learn, and be humbled as a musician.

    “I want to find out who the hell I am. I’m still searching. I’m still searching.” — Vernon Reid (69:52)

  • Awe for new generations, but maintains respect for soulful simplicity (Pop Staples with Mavis, for example).

    “A better guitar player’s not messing with that.” — Vernon Reid (93:08)

• AI & Music’s Spiritual Calling

  • Concern and fascination with AI’s rise; how humanity’s search for external “superintelligence” is both an extension and threat to art and spirituality.

    “We’ve created an entity...that will answer you, that could quote any of the great sage books...and give you your blessing. Customized for you.” — Vernon Reid (86:20)

• The Expansiveness of Music

  • Corgan sees artists as “the priest class,” able to “shift energies”—but laments the reductionism of industry, media, and even the attention economy.

    “...at the end of the day, it never seems to encapsulate the expansiveness that is really at the heart of great music.” — Billy Corgan (100:38)

Memorable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-------------|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:14 | Reid | "When your compatriots are willing to listen, you have a brief window...make hay while you may." | | 06:59 | Reid | "[Coltrane] put all of that in the horn, and I felt that." | | 24:00 | Reid | "Ernie Isley deserved to be featured...he literally saved the Isley Brothers." | | 38:30 | Reid | "...from the moment I stumbled on the riff and I yelled at Wilson, yo man, put a beat to this...the song assembled itself..." | | 57:34 | Corgan | "They have to fit you in the box. And that in and of itself, is every band...never even found a box that was close to the box."| | 78:09 | Reid | "Magic costs. If you're going to work with magic, it's going to cost you." | | 80:36 | Reid | "If you don't fulfill the conditions, [the love] can be withdrawn. It will be withdrawn." |

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• On Coltrane’s “My Favorite Things” – [06:27–07:21]
  Billy and Vernon connect over their transformative first listen.
• Black Rock Coalition’s Philosophical Mission – [21:16–23:23]
  Explaining its roots in live experience and radio narrowcasting.
• Creating “Cult of Personality” – [38:20–41:09]
  Description of the song’s spontaneous creation and debut on SNL.
• Surreal Nature of Success – [42:16–43:36]
  Reid discusses sudden fame and the personal cost.
• Industry Pressure and Media Frustration – [50:49–55:41]
  On dealing with label requests and misunderstandings by journalists.
• On Artistic Purpose and Sacrifice – [78:09–80:36]
  Honest discussion of price paid by truth-telling artists.
• AI and the Next Spiritual Revolution – [82:41–86:20]
  A philosophical tangent on the future intersection of technology and spirituality.
• Reflections on Legacy and New Work (Hoodoo Telemetry) – [86:25–91:00]
  The journey to Reid’s new record as a culmination of lifelong exploration.

Closing Reflections

Billy and Vernon end with warmth and respect, sharing gratitude for shared experiences—including the honor of playing Black Sabbath’s last concert with Ozzy—and mourning the recent loss of musical innovators. Reid celebrates the ongoing power, breadth, and burden of the artist’s calling, offering inspiration and sobering perspective for listeners, musicians, and fans alike.

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