Wendy Dio | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Wendy Dio" | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Podcast: The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
Host: Billy Corgan
Guest: Wendy Dio
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode features a candid and deeply personal conversation between Billy Corgan and Wendy Dio, widow of the legendary Ronnie James Dio. The discussion journeys through Wendy’s early life in postwar England, her relationship and life with Ronnie, their shared adventures through the world of rock and heavy metal, and Wendy’s role as both partner and manager. The episode also explores the complexities of the music business, the unique personalities that shaped rock history, and Wendy’s work to preserve Ronnie’s legacy and support cancer research.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Meeting Ronnie James Dio – The Beginning of a Journey

• Wendy shares how she met Ronnie while working as a waitress at the Rainbow in LA, with mutual friends Richie Blackmore and Babsy introducing them.
• Early impressions:
  • Wendy: “He was very interesting, a really interesting person. Very, very smart.” [02:28]
  • Ronnie’s invitation: “Why don’t you quit your job and come join me? …I went for the rest of my life.” [02:52]

Ronnie’s Character and Generosity

• Billy recalls his first meeting with Ronnie during a Heaven and Hell tour:
  • “He looked at me, he goes, ‘Hey, where are you going?...Let’s go talk.’ …He was so warm, generous, supportive, which is interesting. Most big musicians aren’t really supportive.” [03:22]
• Wendy emphasizes Ronnie’s sincerity:
  • “He always made anyone he was talking to feel like they were the most important person at that time to him. And they were.” [04:10]
• Advice to Lizzy Hale: “Always take time with your fans because…you may not remember it, but they will remember it for the rest of their life.” [05:07]

Life Before Rock and Roll – Wendy’s Early Years

• Wendy describes her upbringing in postwar Britain, living in Essex, experiencing food rationing, and her early jobs at Decca Records and working with TV music shows.
• Insights into 1960s British music scene:
  • “I saw the Beatles when they were third on the bill with Chris Montez and Tommy Rowe.” [17:35]
  • Brief stint in the entertainment world, including a role in “Death Race 2000” with Sylvester Stallone. [20:04]

The Rainbow Years: Creative Tensions and Rock ‘n’ Roll Realities

• Wendy discusses the dynamics of Rainbow, particularly between Ronnie and Richie Blackmore, and the band’s underappreciated legacy:
  • On Richie: “He is obviously a brilliant musician, but very difficult person.” [06:08]
  • On Rainbow’s direction: “Ronnie didn’t want to be commercial. That was one thing he did not want to do. He doesn’t write love songs.” [07:14/07:40]
• The spiritual and eccentric side: Recalls wild seances and supernatural experiences while recording in France (“no thanks to Ball” on the album credits) [11:06–12:30].

Navigating the Music Business, Money, and Management

• The financial struggles: Despite touring success, poor management left them broke (“We got $150 a week…We had no money.”) [28:59]
• On the business pressure for commercial music and how it created conflict:
  • “Record company…pushing Ronnie to write a love song, which Ronnie said no.” [27:49]
• Transition to Sabbath—moving from Rainbow’s chaos to the comparative camaraderie of Black Sabbath.
  • “Tony’s brilliant. And Geezer…I mean. Yeah, brilliant.” [32:15]

Transforming Role: Wife to Manager

• Wendy is asked to manage Ronnie:
  • Ronnie: “He’d rather get screwed by you than get screwed by your manager.” [41:08]
• Breaking barriers for women in the industry:
  • “We were the only two women managers.” (referring to herself and Sharon Osbourne) [43:14]
  • “Women managers, very, very good. Because they listen to detail.” [43:42]
• Overcoming bias and the “cruel” nature of the business, but also opening the door for others. [43:54]

The Holy Diver Era and MTV Stardom

• The breakthrough:
  • “It felt…from the outside, it looked like Ronnie just exploded.” [45:44]
• On making iconic videos:
  • “They spent some money on making a video for Holy Diver…but Rainbow in the Dark…was huge…Ronnie said, I love that video. It makes me look tall.” [45:50–46:09]
• Their independent, trusting working relationship:
  • Billy: “You assume husband, wife, he’s micromanaging…”
  • Wendy: “No, no, no…He never interfered with my business.” [48:22/48:32]

Keeping Ronnie's Legacy Alive & The Stand Up and Shout Cancer Fund

• After Ronnie’s passing in 2010, Wendy established the Ronnie James Dio Stand Up and Shout Cancer Fund, raising nearly $3 million for research.
• “We support TJ Martell, we support a lot of other cancer things. And it goes into…we were actually been supporting Dr. Wong from UCLA with a cancer test from a swab…early detection…” [60:15–61:36]

Legacy, Love, and the Business of Remembrance

• Wendy addresses criticism about keeping Ronnie’s name alive:
  • “My number one responsibility is to keep his music alive.” [62:31]
  • On their early struggles: “We had about 12 people sleeping there…trying to struggle and get something happening.” [63:06]
• Wendy discusses unreleased material and the challenges—and joys—of managing his posthumous legacy:
  • “He did write two love songs for me…never been out…Would he kill me for this?” [65:50]
• The deep connection remains:
  • “We were soulmates, I think…obviously, we had ups and downs…but those things happen.” [66:12]

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Notable Quotes

• On sticking to artistic principles:

  • “He was more into the music than making a commercial hit.” – Wendy Dio [07:50]

• On fan relationships:

  • “Always take time with your fans because...you may not remember it, but they will remember it for the rest of their life.” – Advice from Ronnie via Wendy Dio [05:07]

• On overcoming the music business:

  • “I'd rather get screwed by you than screwed by your manager.” – Ronnie James Dio (as retold by Wendy Dio) [41:08]
  • “We were the only two women managers...We open[ed] the door for a lot of women managers.” – Wendy Dio [43:14/43:54]

• On success and humility:

  • “He was a very humble person...He’d go to Walmart. He loved to go to Walmart.” – Wendy Dio [50:41]

• On Ronnie’s unique talent:

  • “He used to read a book a day...He was very...and do crosswords all the time.” – Wendy Dio [23:45]
  • “He had that inner drive...He had that vocal where he’d sing from the stomach because of the trumpet playing.” – Wendy Dio [53:23]

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Important Timestamps

• Meeting Ronnie and Early Courtship: 01:05–03:01
• Billy’s First Encounter with Ronnie: 03:01–04:10
• The Secret to Ronnie’s Impact on Fans and Fellow Musicians: 04:10–05:14
• Discussion of Rainbow and Band Politics: 06:41–09:02
• Creative Tensions with Richie Blackmore: 07:44–08:00
• Seance Stories and Life on Tour: 11:06–13:09
• Financial Struggles Despite Success: 28:59–29:13
• Transitioning to Black Sabbath: 30:09–32:01
• The Devil Horns Debate: 37:50–38:48
• Wendy Becomes Ronnie’s Manager: 39:50–41:19
• Holy Diver and Breakthrough Success: 45:44–46:39
• Building Ronnie’s Legacy/Stand Up and Shout Cancer Fund: 55:24–61:36
• Reflections on Managing a Legacy: 65:09–66:12

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Memorable Moments

• Seance Gone Wrong: “They said, ‘Who is this?’ ‘Oh, this is Ball the devil.’ …Thunder struck out and was like, whoa, we’re all kind of scared…” [11:40]
• MTV Stardom: “He goes up on the roof at the place we were at…they didn’t care about Holy Diver…and it was huge…the Rainbow in the Dark video.” [45:50–46:09]
• Humanizing Rock Stardom: Ronnie’s humility and love for simple pleasures, like shopping at Walmart and hating ostentation at home. [50:41]
• Lasting Love: Wendy contemplating whether to release Ronnie’s private love songs for her: “Would he kill me for this? Because they’re love songs.” [65:50]

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Tone and Style

The tone is warm, open, and frequently humorous, marked by deep mutual respect and affection between Billy and Wendy. The conversation is peppered with music history, candid confessions, and storytelling that brings to life both the triumphs and struggles of Wendy and Ronnie’s life together.

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This episode offers an intimate glimpse behind the curtain of rock history, showing the real lives beneath the legend, the power of partnership and perseverance, and the enduring legacy of Ronnie James Dio—kept alive through Wendy’s tenacity, love, and commitment.

Transcript

[Wendy Dio]

It's a hard life. It's a hard life. And there's ups and downs. We. I mean, we had.

[Interviewer]

You don't strike me as a shy personality.

[Wendy Dio]

No, absolutely no. We would knock heads like this. In fact, people would walk out the room and say, oh, God.

[Interviewer]

You know, you met sort of really at the precipice of snow.

[Wendy Dio]

Right. And, yeah, they kept following me around. Short for me.

[Interviewer]

The word you hear with musicians often is an eccentric, but they tend to.

[Wendy Dio]

Be different types of eccentric written.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Right.

[Wendy Dio]

But there were a lot of fun times. Like, we would. We would have all kinds of things going on, especially seances.

[Interviewer]

My view of him from an outside point of view, he was a true professional.

[Wendy Dio]

He was a very much professional. Totally, totally. But didn't work at home.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Wendy Dio, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk to you about your late husband Ronnie, such an incredible musical icon. So let's start with two stories. You get one story, I get one story. So I'm sure you've told it many times, but take me back to the night that you met Rani. You're working at the Rainbow as a waitress.

[Wendy Dio]

I was indeed. I was over here. I'd come over. I didn't have a green card yet and I needed to work. So I was working at the Rainbow, also doing some movies at the time. And so I knew Richie Blackmore and I knew his wife at the time, Babsy, from England.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so you knew Richie from back.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Wendy Dio]

I knew them very well, actually. And they invited me to. They were in town and they invited me to go to a party with them afterwards up at the Hollywood Hills. And so I said, okay. And they had recorded the first Richie Blackmore Rainbow album, but they had not toured yet. Yeah. So we went up there and Ronnie was following me around. I was like.

[Interviewer]

And he wasn't. Nothing disrespectful, but he wasn't a young guy at that point. I mean, he wasn't in his 20s. I mean, he's about 30 at that point.

[Wendy Dio]

30. Yeah. I was like.

[Interviewer]

So he'd lived. He'd lived some life and yeah, he'd.

[Wendy Dio]

Been an elf, but Rainbow was really his coming out, as I say, of being actually in a big band.

[Interviewer]

Sure. But I'm saying you met him at a unique time where it's.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah, right. He wasn't a big star then. No, he was.

[Interviewer]

Right. You met him sort of really at the precipice of stardom.

[Wendy Dio]

Right. And yeah. And he Kept following me around. I thought, he's too short for me. Anyway, we talked and everything and then everybody was going to Denny's for breakfast because party this was like, I guess sun was just coming up. And we were talking and stuff and he said, do you want to go for a ride to Malibu? I said, okay, sounds good. So we went and we talked and talked and talked. And he was very interesting, a really interesting person. Very, very smart. And we started chatting and stuff. And then we started dating for about two weeks. And then he went on the road.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

And then he called me and he said, why don't you quit your job and come and join me? I said, no, I can't quit my job. But I come for a couple of weeks and I went for the rest of my life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That's so beautiful. Okay, so my story. I went to see Sabbath in 2007. Heaven and hell obviously was the name of the tour at the time. And I went back to see Tony, my hero and my friend. And talked to Tony for 10, 15 minutes, as you do. And then, okay, everybody's leaving, going to go home. I'm on my way out and I'd never met your husband. And he's passing me and he looks at me, he goes, hey, where are you going? I said, well, I'm just going home. He said, can you hang out? Do you have to go home right now? I said, no. He goes, let's, let's go talk. And he just took me in a room, just me and him, for 45 minutes. He had a glass of wine and we just talked. And he was just amazing, as you know, I mean, but he was so warm, generous, supportive, which is interesting. Most big musicians aren't really supportive.

[Wendy Dio]

He was very supportive.

[Interviewer]

He told me, ask me whatever you want. We talked about Rainbow a lot because I love Rainbow. And I still to this day really hold that meeting because it's so rare.

[Wendy Dio]

He was a very rare person. He always made anyone he was talking to feel like that they were the most important person at that time to him. And they were. He honestly, genuinely helped people.

[Interviewer]

And I'm not saying this in any self aggrandizement. He was genuinely interested in what I was doing, what I was thinking.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Interviewer]

How I was thinking of music, where I was going.

[Wendy Dio]

Well, because he was always interested in the next generation of music. Yeah, very much so.

[Interviewer]

And even when I did the last Ozzy show recently, I was talking to Lizzie Hale.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, Lizzy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, Hailstorm. About her experiences with your husband. And she said he Was so amazing to us.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

He would take time and get in our camper van and want to know what we were doing and what we were. And she. So here we are, these multiple generations where your husband gave us like a form of blessing, if that's a nice.

[Wendy Dio]

Way to put it. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Lizzie, he gave Lizzie, she asked him one time a piece of device and he said, always take time with your fans because you know, you may not be remember it, but they will remember it for the rest of their life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when you first heard Rainbow, I assume you heard it basically before it came out or what was your first impression as somebody who was a purple fan and who.

[Wendy Dio]

I was a big purple fan, Big purple fan, great band. And yeah, I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was great.

[Interviewer]

Did you kind of get what they were after right away?

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was more. It was more of a. Of a blues way of going and Rock, blues, rock. And Ronnie actually wrote a song for me about me called Rainbow Eyes.

[Interviewer]

Oh, beautiful.

[Wendy Dio]

Because he said my eyes changed from blue to green to hazel.

[Interviewer]

I love that. So now you're on tour with Rainbow?

[Wendy Dio]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

Richie obviously had something to prove, right?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because he'd left purple and kind of. I mean, all that stuff's well documented. We don't need to talk about it. But I mean, it wasn't exactly the best of terms it. You know, he kind of felt like those guys were stealing his band away.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah. No, Richie was a very intricate person. He is obviously a brilliant musician, but very difficult person.

[Interviewer]

When you say. Because I like to say we don't do gossip here, but I think it's fair to ask someone who knows him as a person because I've never met Richie. You know, you hear these stories about Richie being difficult, but is it the difficulty of someone who's strong headed? Is it somebody because he's a visionary and he's got it his way, or is it just somebody who's just difficult because they're just difficult?

[Wendy Dio]

No, it's just his way. And I think because of him being such a musical genius that that's what made it like that. I mean, he was so nice to my parents. My parents loved him. He was an absolute gentleman to them. Me, I knew him before. So he and I would knock heads sometimes somewhere and go, don't talk to him like that. I don't care. You know, I'm me.

[Interviewer]

So. But what was your impression? Because you know, I love Rainbow as a band and I think they're honestly, in many ways an underappreciated band.

[Wendy Dio]

Very underappreciated. I think that, you know, when people talk about Rainbow. Now, of course, they had the hits after Ronnie left, but Ronnie didn't want to be commercial. That was one thing he did not want to do.

[Interviewer]

He didn't write love songs. So can you explain that? Because I think maybe most people, if they're not in the music business, they wouldn't understand what that means was it was Ronnie. It was more about finding the music that the fans wanted and. Or his vision of rock, or. Can you break that down a bit?

[Wendy Dio]

He doesn't write love songs. He never wrote love songs. And he didn't want any. He was more into the music than making a commercial hit.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

And he felt that they were just trying to make a commercial hit, which, of course, the record company always does.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Wendy Dio]

And that's what he wanted to stay true to the way he felt the music should be.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because, you know, for the music historians in the crowd, my impression. And you tell me. Cause you were there. Richie kind of sees Elf and basically took Elf. Thank you. Hear, hear. I was trying to say the nice version of Elf.

[Wendy Dio]

Everyone except the Rainbow.

[Interviewer]

The first Rainbow record sounds a lot like Elf.

[Wendy Dio]

It was Elf. It was all of Elf except Richie, except the.

[Interviewer]

In a clever way. And I do think Richie's musical genius. So I'm with you on that. I think he saw something in Elf that he thought, okay, if I take that. And I kind of put my.

[Wendy Dio]

He wanted Ronnie. And the only way he could get Ronnie.

[Interviewer]

Well, then he got rid of Elf. Right.

[Wendy Dio]

The only way he could get Ronnie was to take the band, because those forever. And it was very sad to see one by one by one go.

[Interviewer]

And how did Ronnie take all that?

[Wendy Dio]

He was very hurt by it, especially with Jimmy Bain firing. That was. That was the real crucial thing of almost the end.

[Interviewer]

Because him and Jimmy were pretty Very, very tight.

[Wendy Dio]

Very, very tight. And Jimmy. Bob Bain. Ronnie called Jimmy Bobain. He was just a character, you know, he was such a character.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So, okay, now you're on tour with this. It's hard to call it a fledgling rock band, but like I said, Ronnie's got something to prove. I mean, he's now bursting onto the bigger. I mean, you're playing with Richie Blackmore. You're not just playing with some guy in a band. So there's a lot of pressure on Ronnie. In many fans minds, he'. And even though he's not. Or Coverdale, too, on Top of that. And then, of course, Richie's very much got something to prove that he can stand on his own without purpose.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

So what was your impression of the vibe of that time?

[Wendy Dio]

What I can think of at the time was this big rainbow that they carried around a huge thing that never worked. Every night it broke down. Every night it broke down. No, but that was. It was very exciting time. We were young and it was an exciting time. And, you know, first time where played big audiences, for Ronnie, it was a bittersweet time.

[Interviewer]

Can you explain that a little bit bittersweet?

[Wendy Dio]

Well, sometimes Richie was in a good mood and sometimes he was in a bad mood. Sometimes if he was in a bad mood, you could not say hello to him or good morning to him until he felt like he was speaking to you. You had a lot of very odd things that went on. But as I said, he was a musical genius. So that comes along with.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, there's certainly a lot of evidence to suggest. And I have my experiences with musicians, being one myself, and my father was a musician too. Is they believe sometimes that what makes musicians such great musicians is the brain doesn't sort of communicate. Some people might call it bipolarity, but the brain functioning is different. So they'll have a heightened sense of music, but maybe not a heightened sense of something else. It does not just say something bad. It's just a different.

[Wendy Dio]

No, no, no, no. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because then, you know, the word you hear with the musician's office is an E. But they tend to be different.

[Wendy Dio]

Types of eccentric riches.

[Interviewer]

Okay, right.

[Wendy Dio]

But there were a lot of fun times. Like, we would. We would have all kinds of things going on, especially seances. When they.

[Interviewer]

Seances?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. Okay, I'm listening to seances. When we recorded at Chateau Montmartre. Oh, Chateau. Was it.

[Interviewer]

Was it the one in France that everyone recorded at?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, it was in a place called. We called it Horaceville, but it was Horrorville, I think, and near Pontoise, which we call pantyhose. And we had a lot of seances there, and it was. It was a lot of fun until it turned to be quite scary. We did this one seance, which I always thought somebody was pushing the thing in or whatever, and they said, you're.

[Interviewer]

Talking about Ouija board stuff. Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

They say, who is this? Oh, this is Ball the devil.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. I say, oh, well, give us a sign. And so suddenly thunder struck out and was like, whoa, we're all kind of scared and everything. So that was one time, and we all ran to bed and Then another time we have a seance and I forget who it was. It was one of these spirits that come in and they said, ha, ha, ha ha, don't worry, all your tape's wiped off. And it was the next day taped, all wiped off, completely wiped off. In fact, on the album it says no thanks to Ball on it. And another time we did a seance and the glass broke and it was a round table and it went round the table by itself and smashed the floor. That was really scary. And that's when I left. And as I was leaving, somebody pushed me down the stairs and there was no one behind me at all, but I got a hand, shoved me down the stairs. Another time Cosy got locked in his room. He felt the lock go and all the books came off the shelf. It was quite scary there, see? And I've never done a seance since. Since it got pushed down the stairs. But those are fun things they did. And we used to do like Richie used to get a can of coke and put it on a string and it was like a three story place and go on the top scare and bang. And it would dangle on someone's window so they would tap it on the way. So you never knew if it was real or if it was true.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see. So last thing on this, and I want to talk about you. Did Ronnie in that. In that early period with Rainbow? Because it was like about 75 to 78, if my memory's correct, but did. Because again, he wasn't. And when I say young man, I mean most people, when they're. When they're really hitting that other level in music, they tend to be in their 20s or early 20s.

[Wendy Dio]

No, he was in his 30s.

[Interviewer]

Right. Did he have a sense that there was still this greater destiny ahead? Did he feel that or was he very focused on just.

[Wendy Dio]

He was very focused on what he was doing at the same time. Like, he never wrote songs on the road.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

He was always. This is touring, off the road, this is writing, right? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Right. So let's talk about you. So you were born in 1945, is that correct?

[Wendy Dio]

Maybe.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Somewhere around there. But the reason I ask is so many people that were born in Britain, you know, either during the war years or post war, they grew up in this kind of very difficult time in England with, you know, there were still bomb craters. I mean, Sharon Osborne sat in that very chair you're sitting in. We were talking about people playing in bomb craters and stuff like that. What's your memory of post War, Britain.

[Wendy Dio]

I remember mostly that because the food was still on ration for eight years after the war. And I remember my mother giving me chocolate, which I'd never had before, and I spit it out because I did not like the taste of it because I'd never had it before.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Wendy Dio]

You know, we'd never. I'd never had a Coca Cola.

[Interviewer]

And where were your family at? Sort of in the socioeconomic scale, because there's not a. You know, to. To be fair to you, and I'm interviewing you, we obviously want to talk a lot about Ronnie, but there's not a lot of information about your life.

[Wendy Dio]

You know, I grew up in probably middle class family. We lived in Epping in Essex.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

Countryside. Live next door to a farm. We used to play with the kids on the farm with the animals and everything. And became a vegetarian because of that. I'm not anymore, but I became vegetarian at that time because, you know, I play with the animals. My mom said every Sunday we'd have a roast dinner. And I said one day, what's that? She said, oh, that's, you know, it's beef. It's like the cows, I said, with the big brown eyes. No, I don't eat that. So I didn't eat any meat except chicken because I hated the chickens. They used to peck me. So, you know, remember that? You know, I left home, I worked for Decca Records for a while.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, tell me about that, because what years did you work for Decca Records?

[Wendy Dio]

Must have been like 60, 68, something like that.

[Interviewer]

See, I. I did my research. The biggest artist in Decca Records in 1968 were the Stones, Inglebert Humperdinck, the Moody Blues and Tom Jones.

[Wendy Dio]

Yep. And tell you a funny story about that, because my girlfriend, I must have been about probably 18 or something. 17 or 18. And she got an interview for a job through the paper, and it was meeting at a hotel, and she said, I don't want to go to a hotel. Come with me. So I did. And it was an interview for the Tom Jones show that was. They were for America, recording it for America.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

So. And it was an assistant job, which she got, but she didn't drive. So they said, well, will you come? So I said yes. So they. They recorded Elstree Studios Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They rehearsed Thursday and Friday. And then they would record with a live audience on Saturday and Sunday.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

And Engelbert was there. I met him. Goldie Horn, and all the. All the laughing people were on it. Moody Blues, I took them all to the pub. That was my job, to drive them to the pub. It was Liberace. Yeah, it was a very interesting. So, you know, and my girlfriend at the time. How I got into music really was. My girlfriend at the time was going out with a chap from Romford in Essex in a band called the Paramounts. Okay, okay. Who later became the Mood Poko Horror as well. Robin Trow, she was dating. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay. Wow.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. So I used to go to all the shows.

[Interviewer]

Did you? Did you? Cause I always love to talk. Because it's such an incredible period of time for music. Did you like the music of the time? Were you attracted to the music of the time?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, I love the Animals. That was one of my favorite bands. When Deep Purple came out, I love that band. Zeppelin, of course, was like, whoa. Beatles, of course. I mean, I saw the Beatles when they were third on the bill with Chris Montez and Tommy Rowe in my hometown.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, wow. So I'd been about 66, probably, something like that.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It was Dizzy.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Remember, Tommy Rowe hit the.

[Wendy Dio]

It was very interesting. Yeah, it was an interesting time. It's called the Speakeas, of course. See everybody down there? We go to.

[Interviewer]

The reason I ask, I mean, not just because you got to see some of these great artists and be around them a bit, but also, you know, you end up working in music, you.

[Wendy Dio]

Know, so, in fact, David Bowie brought an acetate. It was an acetate at that time, and he was turned down. And I had that acetate for many, many years. And then somebody stole it.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I think there's some. I could be wrong, but I think David had 11 or 12 failed singles before he had space out of. It was basically considered a kind of a.

[Wendy Dio]

He was an amazing musician. I mean, he was like a chameleon. He was always something different. Every time he saw.

[Interviewer]

Did you see something in David early? You know, did you see that star quality?

[Wendy Dio]

No, because he was like. His acetate sounded like something like Anthony Newley at that.

[Interviewer]

Well, he loved Anthony Newley. Very exaggerated, but kind of funny. David was one of those people. He borrowed enough things that when he finally put it together in the right formula a la Ziggy Stardust, it was like. It took off.

[Wendy Dio]

He was amazing.

[Interviewer]

So how does you. Sorry, how do you end up going to America at some point? Because, again, there's no information on you out there that I can find.

[Wendy Dio]

I married an idiot.

[Interviewer]

Was he a musician?

[Wendy Dio]

No, he was a ski instructor and I was in Zermatt skiing. And I Stupid.

[Interviewer]

Was it the way he skied or.

[Wendy Dio]

No, it was. I don't know. I don't know. He was good looking. He said, come over here. I came to California. I had a visa. I ended up marrying him and realized after I married him that all he wanted to do was ski. He did not want to work. He didn't want to do anything. And I just couldn't deal with it. And I didn't want to go and say, oh, I failed. So I stayed.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But since this is Southern California, you sort of drift here and.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, and I started doing some movies and things.

[Interviewer]

Okay, tell me about that.

[Wendy Dio]

I did a film called Death Race 2000.

[Interviewer]

I love that movie.

[Wendy Dio]

Okay. So there's a scene in it where I was in masseuse. I had little white shorts, a little white T shirt.

[Interviewer]

Now I have to go back and see you in this movie.

[Wendy Dio]

And so I. When the race came in, was Keith Carrity. Yes. No, it was David Carradine. David Carradine.

[Interviewer]

I got my Carradine.

[Wendy Dio]

And so my thing was to masseuse when they came in from Ride. Right. So this one guy who is masseuse, he was, said to me, I'm not doing these B movies forever. I've written a script and it's going to be huge. You know who that was?

[Interviewer]

Let's see. Let's take a guess. Sylvester Stallone.

[Wendy Dio]

Correct. Correct.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Wendy Dio]

Yep. Yep. And he was. He became a huge star.

[Interviewer]

Hello. All right, now I gotta go watch you in this movie. I love that movie. I think it's such a fun movie.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, it's definitely.

[Interviewer]

People still make that joke. You know, if you're gonna run over somebody on the street. 3,000 points.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, I do, too. I say, oh, I get six points for that one.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. So let's go back to Rainbow for a sec. So obviously we talked about, you meet Ronnie. Now you're on tour with Rainbow. It's such an easy thing now to say that Ronnie was a pioneer of hard rock and heavy metal, but at the time, hard rock wasn't necessarily. And many people thought it was on the wane.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So did he feel. Did he have a sense that he was developing something new?

[Wendy Dio]

No, he just always stuck to his guns. He did what he wanted to do. Musically, nobody could tell Ronnie what to do. He knew what he wanted to do.

[Interviewer]

So is that part of why him and Richie?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was musical differences.

[Interviewer]

It's kind of funny because they're both brilliant, so you can't say one was right. And one was wrong.

[Wendy Dio]

No, no, no, no. Richie wanted to be more commercial and Ronnie didn't. He wanted to stick to his guns. He always stuck to his guns. And I think that's why his fans. I mean, he's been dead like 15 years now. Right. And there's still two and a half, two and a half million people on his Facebook. We have. We keep it alive. But because he was true to himself. He was always true to himself.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I went back and listened to some of his early recordings. I have to. An angel is missing.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because, you know, at some point, because I was coming of age in those times and there was Ronnie. I didn't understand there was sort of age difference or anything. I didn't know that. I just assumed Ronnie was the same age of everybody else. Right, right.

[Wendy Dio]

Which a lot of people do because he.

[Interviewer]

Oh, he's very youthful. Yeah. Even. I mean, I saw him perform when he was 71 years old. And you wouldn't say that as a 71 year old man, but his brain.

[Wendy Dio]

Was, you know, he was always up to the minute of what was going on in the world. And as I said, musicians. He knew who the new musicians were. He knew who he liked and who he didn't like. Yeah. And he always said, you know, somebody asked him once, what's your favorite kind of music? And he said, you know what? There's no bad music because that person created it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's beautiful. I wish I thought like he did. But there's this evolution where it's like early Ronnie kind of doo wop New York stuff. Very kind of typical for the time.

[Wendy Dio]

Yep, yep.

[Interviewer]

And then there's a little bit of evolution. Like there's. I heard like a version of Love Potion Number nine starts to rock a little bit more.

[Wendy Dio]

Well, he heard the Beatles.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

That's what changed his life, was the Beatles.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing how many people saw the.

[Wendy Dio]

Beatles and thought, absolutely, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

But it's funny. Cause even when you listen to those early recordings, there's Ronnie. Like, it's not like you think, like, he sounds like somebody else. His diction is very, you know, it's very interesting. He's got perfect diction as a singer.

[Wendy Dio]

He used to read a book a day.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

He was very. And do crosswords all the time.

[Interviewer]

What was in terms of what he was interested in reading about? What was his focus?

[Wendy Dio]

Science fiction.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

And autobiographies.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Is there a reason that he was fascinated with those things? Just like to learn or.

[Wendy Dio]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

You were married to, right?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. I don't know what he, what he liked. I mean, I know what he like. I know. You know, and writing music. He was a huge sports fan. Huge sports fan. Oh, he knew everything about any, any, any team you would ask him about.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

He would write songs, watching football or watching.

[Interviewer]

I didn't know that about it. So tell me about your. Your falling in love and life together. Because, you know, and you know, the life of a wife in rock and roll especially back then, there were a lot of expectations and, you know, you had a very successful partnership.

[Wendy Dio]

And when you dumped to manage him, on top of it. When he decided that I was gonna manage him.

[Interviewer]

Well, we're not there yet.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, okay, hold on.

[Interviewer]

Cause no, because I'm. And I don't mean to stop you. I'm saying is, you know, it's one thing to fall in love. It's another thing to be with the famous musician. It's another thing to navigate the insecurities.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, absolutely. It's a hard life. It's a hard life. And there's ups and downs. I mean, we had.

[Interviewer]

You don't strike me as a shy personality.

[Wendy Dio]

No, absolutely no. We would knock heads like this. In fact, people would walk out the room and say, oh God, you know, they're at it. I was the only person, I think in the world who could tell Ronnie, shut up. You know, because sometimes he will get arrogant and it wasn't called for particular time when he had flown. This is with his own band. He had. Or. Do you want to take that?

[Interviewer]

No, it's fine.

[Wendy Dio]

Okay. He had flown with his assistant to wherever it was we were going. I don't remember where it was, but it was a long way. It was about 10 hours on a bus and they had sent the bus, but it was a stand up bus and we were meeting him. It was a stand up bus and we were. Band of the crew and I were on the bus. We meet him at the airport, wherever it was. It probably was four hours, but it seemed like 11 hours. We got there and he was having a drink in the bar and I said, come on, we gotta go. Well, I haven't finished my drink yet. I said, we have to go now. And he didn't. And so he got on the bus and I was really angry with him. I'm really angry with him. And I said, you know, you need to apologize every single person. This is a day off for everybody. You've held everybody up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, it's all about you, isn't it? It's all about you. So.

[Interviewer]

Well, yeah, it is.

[Wendy Dio]

So he did apologize to everyone, and then he bought me a pillow that said, it's all about me. Because he could. That's how he was. You could fight with him, and then the next minute he would be. I know he was mean to the crew sometimes in the band, and he would yell at people if they were not on the spot, like that, you know.

[Interviewer]

Well, my view of him from an outside point of view, he was a true professional.

[Wendy Dio]

He was a very much professional. Totally. Totally. It didn't work at home.

[Interviewer]

Okay? So, you know, in my estimation, and I love my rock music, I mean, there's no better band on the planet in 1978 than Rainbow. I mean, they are at their peak. Cozy Powell, one of the greatest drummers of all time. Your husband, arguably the greatest rock singer of all time. Richie Blackmore, a true savant at the peak of his powers. Incredible lineup. I mean.

[Wendy Dio]

And Jimmy.

[Interviewer]

And Jimmy. Right. I was getting there. And so usually when you're at that moment, you know, and you. Like you said, there's this tension. Ricky. So when you say Richie wanted the band to be more commercial, is it. We need to be played on the radio because of. Is there a logic to that?

[Wendy Dio]

I think the record company was in his ear and in the manager's ear all the time and pushing Ronnie to write a love song, which Ronnie said no.

[Interviewer]

Funny. In the business side of the Rainbow, it was obviously Richie's thing. It was billed as Richie's thing. Richie later joked and said it should have been called Richie Blackmore and Ronnie James Steele's Rainbow. Was. Was Ronnie, I assume. But you tell me was. Ronnie wasn't a full participant in the business, Right? It's basically. Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

He was 50. 50 on the publishing.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

Okay. Which we got screwed off later on, but. And on record royalties, Ronnie was on a scale. So he. I think he got like 35%, first of all. And then it went up to where he would be equal.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So. So at least by 1978, he's a fully vested member of the band. The band's very successful.

[Wendy Dio]

But never got any money because. Well, because management. We had a big house in Connecticut. They made us move to Connecticut. We moved to Connecticut.

[Interviewer]

Is that because was. Richie was living there?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Wendy Dio]

We had a big house there. 5. 5 acres. So we had no neighbors. Very lonely time for me. Car, big car. Leased. Everything was leased. And we got $150 a week.

[Interviewer]

I was one of those. So when. When it all got added up, you. They told you you had no money?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, we had no money. We fought for Ronnie's publishing for years and years and years and finally got one member rising back with the rest of it. No.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. And when. When Ronnie and Richie parted company as. I don't know, because Richie says that Ronnie left and Ronnie says he got fired. So I don't know what happened. But anyway, I know we were left in Connecticut with. My grandmother died and left me $50,000. We had that money was all we had. And we drove across country from Connecticut back. Cause I said, we gotta go back to California, you know, he wanted to start a band. And we had two dogs and a cat and us. And we drove back to California. And Ronnie was working. He was. He was trying to get band together with Skunk Baxter.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Wendy Dio]

Yep. With.

[Interviewer]

There's. There's the band that never was.

[Wendy Dio]

Yep. And then there was old. Old elf people and stuff. And he was doing all that stuff. And then I was friends with Sharon before, so Sharon. And we were friends. And so Sharon was like, come up to the. We used to go up to the Sabbath place all the time and that. And then Tony and Ronnie got together in the Rainbow. And I guess they had decided that Ozzy wasn't able to perform anymore. It was their 10th anniversary. I remember that. And going to be their 10th anniversary. And Ronnie came back and said, you know, get a band together with Tony. Oh, sounds good. You know. And then all of a sudden it was, whoa, it's going to be Geez is in. And Bill's in. He said, Black Sabbath. He said, I don't know if I like their music. I said, we have $800 in the bank. You love their music. And then he did love their music.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But is it true that Sharon recommended Ronnie for the job? I don't know, but I think that's what she said.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, I think so.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. We used to go up to the Rainbow all the time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That's why I'm saying that's a beautiful thing that people don't always understand about that world is just a lot more closeness goes on.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Don was managing the band at the time. He was not happy about it at all. He wanted Ronnie to write and record and for Ozzy to go on tour. And Ronnie said, no, that's not what I do. So he left. And then Don wrote a note and said, I'm done with you all. And so they said, oh, were out of the management. So that's what happened there.

[Interviewer]

What I love about those. There's obviously the first couple albums, the Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. What I love about those records was it.

[Wendy Dio]

It.

[Interviewer]

It showed that. That Sabbath had this other musical side.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, Tony's brilliant. Brilliant. And Geezer. I mean. Yeah, brilliant.

[Interviewer]

Well, Bill, Bill did the record and then.

[Wendy Dio]

And then Bill did the record. Yeah, we went down to Miami. Yeah. Went down to Miam in Miami.

[Interviewer]

Was it a criteria?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. And we stayed at the Bee Gees house too there. And that was, that was, that was, that was a fun. That was a fun time. I'll tell you a funny story about it, which is actually in Ronnie's book that he tells. So when Ronnie was playing in Elf or Elves or one of those bands, he was. They play like cover tunes and they play for hours on end in different little clubs and things. And he was playing his club in St. George, I think it's called, up in. Up in upstate New York. And this guy there was. Said, oh, Dio. He said, are you related to Johnny Dio, the big mafia guy? Ronnie said, yeah, that's my uncle. Right. So he said, oh, I'm bring him down here. So Ronnie was like just gonna kill himself because he was so scared of it. He said he was there and one night all these suits came in and he was terrified. He said, you know, they're gonna find out that's not really my uncle. Whatever.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it was kind of a joke. Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

It wasn't true. So anyway, they left and Ronnie forgot about. Years and years went by, whatever. Ronnie, we were down in Miami recording Heaven and Hell. And it's the first time we had any money or anything, you know, Ronnie was an equal sharing partner. And so we went to this place called the Forge. It's a big fancy restaurant in Miami.

[Interviewer]

I've been there, you've been there. It's steaks, I think, is their specialty.

[Wendy Dio]

So anyway, I had called and made the reservation there and this maitre d took us to a private room, a beautiful room and everything was.

[Interviewer]

I know where this is going.

[Wendy Dio]

They were having food and they bringing champagne and everything. I said, how are we going to pay for all this? So because we used to not having any money anyway. Then Ronnie said, could I have the bill? And he said, it's thank you. It's from your uncle Johnny. Ah, so he must have been following Ronnie's career. Oh, this is good to say that.

[Interviewer]

Wow, that's beautiful.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. It was a funny story any that was that we had a fun time down There, that was a lot of fun. And then they went on the road and everything was good. And then Bill was having a real bad problem with his family. He was total alcoholic at the time and it was just awful. And then one day he just left. He wasn't there. We woke up in the morning, was gone.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

So.

[Interviewer]

But here comes Vinnie Apice. And I know that Ronnie and Vinny.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Got on like a house of fire.

[Wendy Dio]

Well, they're both from New Yorkers, but.

[Interviewer]

You see the strength there even in the relationships. That's what I love to talk about. You know, as fans, we think this person. But what people don't understand is like Vinnie's relationship with Ronnie.

[Wendy Dio]

Right. Well, they were both Americans too, but.

[Interviewer]

Also it's the key to so much great music.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, absolutely. And Vinnie's an amazing drama. Amazing drama.

[Interviewer]

And I love Vinny's drama.

[Wendy Dio]

He just fit so well. And poor Vinnie, I mean, he was just like.

[Interviewer]

Well, in many ways, without trying to be commercial, they kind of became more commercial. Vinnie was a more of a 80s style drummer where Bill was obviously Bill Ward. He kind of created the genre of heavy drumming. Yeah, yeah, sorry. They're apparently dragging a body off at the moment over there, camp wise. And you tell me. I'm guessing as a somewhat outside observer, but you know, the Sabbath vibe, meaning geezer and Tony is a little bit of a lighter vibe than the Blackmoor vibe on a day to day level. Is that. Is that accurate?

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

A little bit more jokey and silly. Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

Ronnie was. In the beginning, it was really good. Everybody was. Well, they were doing drugs at the time. Ronnie only smoked pot. He didn't do anything else. But. And that's one of the reasons why it fell apart the first time, but. And Vinnie didn't do anything except smoke pot. I don't know if we know if he smoked pot, actually. Anyway, that was. No, they did. They. But they always joked they loved each other's company. They would.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's a lighter. It's a lighter.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. Tony stuffed Vinnie's briefcase with ham sandwiches one day. I mean, they did silly things all the time. Tony was terrified of snakes and Ronnie found a. Found a rubber snake and tied it to his inside as he opened his car. I mean, they did silly things. Silly things. But they were, they were. Well, they were all great musicians and I think that's. They had respect for each other.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, so much great music.

[Wendy Dio]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

Just so much great music. So am I right in assuming your fortunes are improving?

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, God, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And those were big records.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah. We bought our first house then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So happy times.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, happy.

[Interviewer]

So that for me, as a fan from the outside, that's where you really started. Hear Ronnie's name a lot of. You know what I mean? Because now he's in too successful.

[Wendy Dio]

Hard for him, first of all, because, you know, kids are giving a finger on. On.

[Interviewer]

Because he's not Aussie.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. It's not Ozzy. But then after that, it just. You know, I'm running. Of course, he. His grandma used to always do that. This. When he was taking. He. When he was 5 years old, he'd go walk to the steel mill where his grandpa worked with his grandma. And she would do this all the time in the Moloch. And so actually, you know, Ozzy always did the peace sign. And Ronnie was like, I can't do that. And one day he just did it and it was. Yeah, that was that.

[Interviewer]

The rest is. I remember somewhere along the way, Ronnie got into a whole public thing about the devil horns. And people were mad at him. Cause he said he invented it. And there was like a whole.

[Wendy Dio]

He didn't say.

[Interviewer]

I know, but I'm saying it's this typical.

[Wendy Dio]

He said he made it. He made it. He made it popular. That's what he said.

[Interviewer]

Because I don't know what's going on next door.

[Wendy Dio]

I got when that all went down. Cause somebody called me from I think the or somewhere and said, gene Simmons is going to trademark the Malloy.

[Interviewer]

And I said, Gene sat in this very chair and told me that he trademarked the dollar sign.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, well, he. Yeah, that's what Ronnie always said. He would. He would trademark that. So anyway, they called me and I said, no. I said, it doesn't belong to anybody. Ronnie just made it popular. It's an old. Goes back centuries ago, whatever. And they said, what do you think about Gene Simmons trademark? I think it's disgusting. Headline. Wendy Dio calls Gene Simmons disgusting. I was like, oh, God, I did not say that.

[Interviewer]

Sorry. Not to make you laugh. Hopefully in the 90s, because we loved heavy metal and of course we loved Ronnie. The Pumpkins started doing the devil horns on stage and in pictures. And we got for it.

[Wendy Dio]

You did?

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. Because it's heavy metal.

[Wendy Dio]

No, it doesn't. It belongs to anybody.

[Interviewer]

I know, but you understand, we did it because we loved.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, right, right.

[Interviewer]

The genre. And we loved Ronnie and it was our way of showing respect.

[Wendy Dio]

Yes, exactly.

[Interviewer]

But to alternative music. This was stupid. Well, tell me. I've lived it for 30 something years.

[Wendy Dio]

But there's stupid people.

[Interviewer]

But. So there's pictures all through the 90s of the pumpkins. And now everybody in alternative music. And I'm not taking any credit, it goes back to Ronnie and every. But point is, we started doing it to piss people off, because once they got mad, then, of course, we did it everywhere. And to this day, I'm still doing it.

[Wendy Dio]

Of course. Of course Ronnie would do things to piss people off all the time. He loved to do that.

[Interviewer]

So, all right, at some point, your loving husband turns to you and says, okay, now you're gonna manage.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, God.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about that conversation.

[Wendy Dio]

Okay, so that started actually when he thought that Richie's manager, which actually Bruce Payne, who was actually Elf's manager, okay? And so Richie, when Ronnie went into Rainbow, Richie said, I don't like our manager. What's your manager? He said, oh, he's great. So Ronnie thought that he was going to continue managing him, but he said, no, he's got Richie now. He doesn't need you.

[Interviewer]

Don't you love the music business?

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ronnie said, you're gonna have to do it. Right? So. But then, luckily, I didn't have to do it because we went. He got into Black Sabbath, okay? And Black Sabbath had. Sandy Perlman was the manager, and Steve Schenck. Do you know those guys?

[Interviewer]

I know the names. I don't know.

[Wendy Dio]

So, anyway, they managed. They managed the first slot of Sabbath. They managed, okay? And then Ronnie left. That's when he formed his own band. And that's when I had to start being a manager.

[Interviewer]

So before Deal was formed, or as Deal was formed, or after, where do you start managing this?

[Wendy Dio]

When. Before Deal was formed. Before the band. Deal was formed.

[Interviewer]

But what was Ronnie's logic for asking you to manage?

[Wendy Dio]

Because I'd rather get screwed by you than screwed by your manager.

[Interviewer]

How much did you take, Wendy?

[Wendy Dio]

About 20%. I did indeed. Yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

God bless you.

[Wendy Dio]

Because I did business management as well. And what happened was when we started with Holy Duck, we mortgaged our house to start because Ronnie said, we've got to go out. It's got to be as big as it was. Sabbath.

[Interviewer]

So smart, though.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. But, you know, I hired the trucks, I hired the people. I did all that. I learned about production. I learned that production managers take a cutback. So, you know, with the band with the places they use and everything. And so I went back to where Ronnie had used in Rainbow, which were all actually British people. It was like at the time, Light and sound design. It was Tesco, was it?

[Interviewer]

People if you felt you could trust.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to use them to the day. I mean, Ronnie took them into Sabbath with him. I mean, they were great people. Anyway, so I was like, oh, God, I don't know about managing well, maybe I should start with some little bands and see how I can do.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Wendy Dio]

So we had Rough Cut, Alcatraz.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

Cooney. A bunch of different bands. Yeah. So I put those together. In fact, I was the one who found Jakey Lee. I was the one who took Jackie Lee to the interview with. To get the job with Ozzy.

[Interviewer]

Didn't know that.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. They didn't want me. Didn't want anything to do with me after that because don't mess it up for me. Because offered him a little bit of money. I said, get you more. No, no, don't. No, no. So I backed out of that. But I had Rough cut. Quite good success with them. They could have been Guns N' Roses, but they got too big for their boots, Thought they could manage themselves and started wearing stupid things. This is a Redding Festival. Right. And they decided to wear red, white and blue satin. I said, you're going to get stuff thrown at you. Of course they did.

[Interviewer]

But things have changed, obviously, in the last 30, 40 years. But, you know, you faced it. Sharon faced it.

[Wendy Dio]

We were the only two women managers.

[Interviewer]

You know where I'm going with that?

[Wendy Dio]

Really bad time. Because all the men managers come up and say, you don't know what you're doing. They would just really berate us all the time and everything. And Sharon just told them all F off. I listened nicely and said, oh, thank you very much, and did it my own way. So we did it our own ways, but we both did it what we wanted to do. Yeah. So we open the door for a lot of women managers. Women managers, very, very good. Because they listen to detail. Silly things that bands come up with, like he got more T shirts than I did or something. And they listen to it. They don't just shove it away.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, now, I mean.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, there's a lot of women manage good managers.

[Interviewer]

Well, God bless. Because, you know. Because I know it couldn't have been easy. I mean, I wasn't there, but I wasn't easy.

[Wendy Dio]

Wasn't easy.

[Interviewer]

You know, I understand the business. You know the business. And we know how the business continues.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah. I had it.

[Interviewer]

When it's cruel, it's really cruel.

[Wendy Dio]

It was very cruel. It's still cruel. Sometimes I get people going, oh, Cash cow. Because I still keep Ronnie's memory and music alive, you know, But I'm the cash cow, you know, I want to.

[Interviewer]

Talk about that, but let's just stay focused here, because it's such a beautiful moment, because I wrote it down, because I wanted to make sure. I think Ronnie was 37 years old when the first deal record came out. I mean, that's a very late number to finally be like, it's all about him.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's so obvious in reverse, because we could sit here and say, well, look at what he did. The Sabbath. Look what he did. I mean, the elf music is very.

[Wendy Dio]

We had no idea what was gonna happen with that. He wrote Holy Diver, actually. He wrote Holy Diver and Don't Talk to Strangers actually for Sabbath. Cause Ronnie. A lot of people think that Ronnie's just a lyricist. No, he plays trumpet. He played piano, plays guitar, bass.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. When I met him, the time we talked a lot, he wrote music, he.

[Wendy Dio]

Wrote a lot of. I mean, a lot of those songs are written totally by him.

[Interviewer]

In fact, I interviewed Rudy Sarzo, and we talked about Ronnie a bit, and he said Ronnie was a really good musician.

[Wendy Dio]

He's a doll. That's a doll. Rudy Zazo, one of the most special people. He's a sweetheart.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So it's your husband. It's your life together. As you said, you're mortgaging. You're like. You're not. You're not living like rock stars.

[Wendy Dio]

No, no. And I wasn't finding socks anymore.

[Interviewer]

Right. So here you are, and then, boom. Mtv. It just. It felt. I mean, you tell me you were. From the inside, from the outside, it looked like Roddy just exploded.

[Wendy Dio]

That's. So they spent. The record label didn't really do much for us on Holy Diver.

[Interviewer]

Classic, right?

[Wendy Dio]

No. But they did spend some money on making a record, making a video for Holy Diver. So they spent, like, all day with this Holy Diver video. And they had a bit of time left, so they said, well, why don't you do Rainbow in the Dark? So he goes up on the roof at the place we were at.

[Interviewer]

And that explains why the video's so kind of basic.

[Wendy Dio]

And it was huge. The rainbow in the dark. They didn't care about Holy Diaper. And Ronnie said, I love that video. It makes me look tall. And Sebastian Bach was telling me. He told me. He says, you know, I love those white boots. I had to get those white boots.

[Interviewer]

After seeing Rainbow in the Dark, it's Ronnie's fault. Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it must have been. I mean, again, you tell me. But it must have just been a really beautiful moment, because all the hard work, all the shows, all the hard.

[Wendy Dio]

Work, all the stuff. The first show we did was. Well, they went out with Aerosmith, first of all. We did, I think, 10 shows with Aerosmith, but Aerosmith at that time were falling off the stage and doing all kinds of stuff. And we had a Holy Diamond, Rainbow, the Dark or something that was in the charts. And I know they were. They were this one show and they went over time and the crew guy was gonna. Erresm's crew guy was gonna pull a plug. And Steven Seido said, no, the audiences have obviously come to see them. He was such a. Such a gentleman. Anyway, then this guy came to me from William Morris and he said, Kevin, his name was. And he said, you know, I could get you some good shows. I said, what? William Morris? They don't have anything rock. He said, well, that's the thing. We could be. And actually, they opened the rock department because of Ronnie. And I said, you get me some shows for $10,000 a piece, and I will go with you. And of course, they did Santa Monica Civic. It sold out in, like 10 minutes. So we did two shows. We did a 6 o' clock show and a 9 o' clock show. And then they did a In store and the kids broke the window. There were so many kids. It was like, unbelievable. I remember the first time Ronnie playing we play Antioch and somewhere, I thought, cows are going to come. It was out in the middle of nowhere and there were so many people there. And I still got shivers seeing him on stage there and thinking, you know what? He did it. We did it. Yeah, we did it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. Because Ronnie. That was, I think, why we were successful, because I never interviewed Ronnie's music at all. And he never interfered with my business.

[Interviewer]

That's beautiful.

[Wendy Dio]

He would.

[Interviewer]

Can you.

[Wendy Dio]

He would complain about things, but he would always.

[Interviewer]

So he was willing to say, look, you.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Because I, you know, you assume husband, wife, he's micromanaging a lot of stuff.

[Wendy Dio]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

Fantastic.

[Wendy Dio]

He hated doing interviews. He'd always do them and he'd be fine, but he hated doing them. And it was like a hot potato. Like, the tour manager would say, you know, this is important. You better talk to him. So I talked to him and we have this big fight on the phone about him doing this interview. And one day I said, ronnie, Look, I've got 10 minutes. I'm busy. You always end up doing it. Why do you make me go through this? He said, I have to suffer. You have to suffer.

[Interviewer]

So your life basically changes overnight after all these years of hard work.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. And we bought the other house. I got the house. I bought that house in Encina, which I still live in, in 1985. And that was. Ronnie goes, I don't need to live in a big house. I said, well, I do. So we got the house, which everyone calls the castle.

[Interviewer]

I've heard about the castle. I've not been to the castle. I'm not asking for an invitation, but I've heard about the castle.

[Wendy Dio]

Then we went at that time because.

[Interviewer]

You know, everybody talks, right? So when you're a kid in the music business, you meet somebody, go, ronnie, he lives in a castle. So in your mind it's dragons and, you know.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah, that's what he had. He had. We went to England at the time. We bought back two semis full of St. Cathedral windows, antique fireplaces, flooring. I mean, you name it, it's there. It's right. It's there. The bar. We bought the bar is very famous. We bought the bar from a pub in. In Epping, an actual bar. Pub, bar, and we had that installed in the house. Yeah, it's. Everybody loves the bar.

[Interviewer]

So when I. I don't know how to define the way to say. It's like there's personal vindication and there's public. And in the music business, public vindication becomes the thing by which you look back and say, you were wrong, you were wrong. Was Ronnie. Did he feel okay finally? Like, I'm struggling with the question, because I'm not trying to put a bitterness on him or something like that, but, you know, did he finally feel like, okay, I wasn't crazy, everything.

[Wendy Dio]

He's a very humble person. You know, he didn't want. I used to make him. Well, he had all his stage clothes made and everything else and that, but otherwise he'd wear sweats. He'd go to Walmart. He loved to go to Walmart. Just go there or Ace Hardware or one of these hardware stores. And, you know, I mean, he just. He was a very. He never. Sometimes he could be arrogant. Yes. Especially in the beginning. Very arrogant in the. In the news, because people were. They would say about his age and his height, and he would say, what? Different. What. What does it matter how tall I am, how old I am?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

You know, but they always would get that. And then he'd get really arrogant with people.

[Interviewer]

But my sense of it is Is he had complete confidence in his voice?

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely, absolutely, yes.

[Interviewer]

Like an almost. Because I don't have that.

[Wendy Dio]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So I admire that in him because I see that in him as a fellow performer.

[Wendy Dio]

You gotta imagine he came from a working up in upstate New York, loved sports even as a kid, and wanted to run out and play baseball when his father at five years old said, oh, listen to the radio, pick an instrument. Oh, that one was a trumpet. So I took him down to the store, got him a trumpet and that poor kid had to practice every single day for hours on end to the point where he decided he was going to get.

[Interviewer]

Is it because somebody wanted him to be a musician?

[Wendy Dio]

No, I don't know why he did it, why his father did it. I have no idea.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Wendy Dio]

His father was very. His mother was a saint. His father was very old Italian.

[Interviewer]

Like old school Italian.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah. He was very mean to the mother. I mean, always, like she had to do everything. And I one time bought her a really nice coat and he sent it back and he said, don't be wasting my son's money on frivolous things. My money. But let's say he was. Anyway, he made him practice and practice and Ronnie at the time said he. He just wanted to go out and play. So he figured if he just did it right, then he. He would go out and play. And he got to the point where the Trudeau. He knew more than he did, so he went on to do that and then he actually played. I mean, he played with like Bobby Darren and he played with all these people in big bands at that time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, it was normal back then. Is a Bobby Darin would tour and they would just pick up local bands.

[Wendy Dio]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

So they just recruit. Hey, you come play.

[Wendy Dio]

Exactly. And he was 15, I think at the time.

[Interviewer]

Even Bob Dylan played in some of those types of things.

[Wendy Dio]

But. And he always. So that was pushed in him to be successful, you have to be the best you can all the time. And he.

[Interviewer]

But, sorry. But he had that inner drive that's just.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, the inner drive. But he also had that. That vocal where he'd sing from the stomach because of the trumpet playing very much from here, from the trumpet playing. All those years and years of that, that made him. And he knew he could sing. He didn't know he could sing. When he had the first band, the singer quit and he had to sing and was like, oh, okay.

[Interviewer]

So I don't want to dwell on the sad part, but, you know, I mean, I saw him not that long before he passed, he was. I was literally turning the person next to me going, how old is Ronnie? And I think he was 71 at the time. And saying, how is he singing like this?

[Wendy Dio]

No, he wasn't 71 because he died when he was 67.

[Interviewer]

Okay, my bad. But. But I'm saying is.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah, he was older.

[Interviewer]

Most men in their 60s don't sing like your husband. And by the way, he's not singing the. You know, he's not singing Volare. No, he's singing. Yeah, he's singing Mob Rules. Yeah, we rock. Rainbow in the Dark.

[Wendy Dio]

These are neonites.

[Interviewer]

Operatic power. So you're looking at each other like, how is this humanly possible? So did he start to feel like, you know, were there signs or did just one day he just didn't feel right? Like.

[Wendy Dio]

No. About five years before he passed away, he was complaining of indigestion. I took him to a very famous Beverly Hills doctor who gave him heart tests and all kinds of stuff and just said, oh, don't worry, it's just a gasp. Just guess, had I known what I know now, I would have made sure he had.

[Interviewer]

So there was that. That was that first sign that didn't caught.

[Wendy Dio]

And he always had indigestion. He would eat Tums all the time. He would have indigestion, indigestion. But you see, with things like stomach cancer, gastric cancers and pancreatic cancer, there's not really any signs until it's too late. That's why I've got the cancer thing that I promote now with early detection.

[Interviewer]

You want to talk about that a bit? Sure, please.

[Wendy Dio]

We started that when Ronnie passed. I'll tell you about when Ronnie passed away, okay? So we found out that he was not feeling good. He finished a tour with Sabbath. That was my happiest memory that I have now is that he went back with Sabbath and did that Heaven and Hell tour.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it was great.

[Wendy Dio]

The last thing.

[Interviewer]

And it was great.

[Wendy Dio]

And everybody loved each other. Everybody was back to loving each other, having fun, really enjoying themselves. Everybody pushing each other to the limit for. Because they were all such good musicians and they created Bible Black, all those songs, really good songs, and did a great time. And it had a really fun time. I was gonna go out and do another album, okay. So they stopped them because Vinnie had something wrong with his hand or something. He had to do something. I don't know, whatever. They took a break. And Ronnie wasn't feeling good at all. And that last story wasn't feeling good at all. And so I took him to my just local doctor, actually. He did a blood test, and he called me back and he said, wendy, it's not good news. I think we need to do an ultrasound and a colonoscopy. We did all that, and Ronnie didn't know. And he said, he's got stage four cancer. Wow. And I said, don't tell him. Don't tell him what? So I spent the whole weekend trying to find out the best oncologist I could find at what hospital. And they said, MD Anderson. But I couldn't get into MD Anderson. I was trying everything, and then somebody said, go to the Mayo Clinic. So we flew to Minneapolis, went to the Mayo Clinic, and the guy, horrible doctor. He said, tess, he said, no, you're gonna die. So, you know, just go back and put your life together. You probably got six months. Wow. So we went. Stayed in the hotel. We cried all night long. I remember that. And then I got a text that from MD Anderson, that we could get in there, you know, TJ Martell, Tony Martell, who. We'd done some stuff for him before and given him money and stuff. He was like, we've got. So we flew from Minneapolis to Houston to see this doctor, this Dr. Johnny. And he said, look, I'll do the best. There's some trials out there that we can try. I can't promise you anything, but nobody can tell you except God of when you're gonna die. He said, that doctor should be. Anyway, he started doing the treatment. We used to go every two weeks. We'd go fly to Houston for six hours. He would do chemo. And, you know, there was a kid there, 19, that was there. And Ronnie spent more time caring about him than caring about himself. It was really. And we used to skip down the halls going, we're going to kill the dragon. We called it Killing the Dragon. And we never, ever either one of us thought that Ronnie was going to die because he did very well. He did very well. Three weeks before he passed away. He was getting the reward from whatever reward it was golden something. And then. But I just feel sometimes the. They. They don't want to find a cure because they make too much money with things. Because I know for a fact that at one point, Ronnie lost the eyesight of his eye because it had methodized up there, and his hand was like this. And I took him to an optician, a specialist, and he said, well, you know, there's nothing we can do about it because of that. He said, but there's another specialist. Let Me see in a couple of weeks. I said, okay. So we went to Houston again, and they tried a new drug called Avastin. I'll never forget the name of that. We got off the plane and I said, I think I can see better in my eye. My hands stopped shaking. And we went to the opticians. And he said, I can't understand this. Your sight's back. I cannot understand this. And then the next time we went there, the Avastin was taken off the market. But, you know, anyway, we did that last show, the last award thing, and three weeks later, he passed away. He wasn't feeling that good. He was feeling really in a lot of pain. Went to the hospital, and Gloria and Terry were with me, and he passed away.

[Interviewer]

Sorry.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. But then. Okay. So then everybody was saying, wanting to give money for cancer, and Iron maiden sent me $10,000 and said, where do you want it to go? I said, well, you know, a lot of big organizations, they have so much administration costs. I would really like it to go right where it should go. And so we formed the Ronnie James Dio Stand up and Shout cancer fund. And 14 of his good friends that were on the board. Actually, one of the directors, Claire Brothers from prg, from upstaging, Adam Parsons, Rick Sales, Andy Gord, they're all on the board. And we've raised almost $3 million for research. And we support TJ Martell, we support a lot of other cancer things. And it goes into. We were actually been supporting Dr. Wong from UCLA with a cancer test from a swab.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Wendy Dio]

So that instead of. Because men, a lot of times don't get checked out because they don't want to finger up the butt. This would be a swab in the mouth. And it could. Early detection of. If you've got stomach cancer or pancreatic cancers, those are the two killers. And they just named one of the labs at UCLA after Ronnie.

[Interviewer]

Oh.

[Wendy Dio]

So.

[Interviewer]

Last thing. Thank you for sharing all that. It's hard. I lost a lot of people with cancer, too, so it's the hardest.

[Wendy Dio]

It's the hardest thing. It's just, you know, And I. It doesn't seem like it's been gone for 15 years at all. And I try.

[Interviewer]

You said 15 years. A few minutes ago, I was kind of like, it doesn't seem like he's gone.

[Wendy Dio]

It doesn't seem like that.

[Interviewer]

No.

[Wendy Dio]

And I just tried to keep his music and his memory alive as much as I can.

[Interviewer]

Well, you've done a great job. So let's talk about that, because you Brought up that people were critical of you. And to me, that's so the stupidest thing I can imagine. First of all. And again, you stop me because I'm going to say what I want to say and you tell me if I'm wrong. First of all, it seems to me you're his wife and the manager. Your number one responsibility is to keep his music alive.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Number two, why wouldn't your family and the ones he loved be the beneficiaries of his gift, which was a God given gift.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

So. And put this way, if I'm a fan and I buy these things that come out, I want the money going to you or your family and his family. What is so hard for that, for people to understand about that? And as we sat here, for every dollar Ronnie made in this business, there's all the times where you guys didn't make money and didn't get paid and got ripped off.

[Wendy Dio]

Absolutely. I remember, you know, when we drove all those miles from Connecticut to LA and we rented a house because I had that money from my grandma. We had like about, about 12. It's a two bedroom house. We had about 12 people sleeping there, living there because we were trying to struggle and get something happening.

[Interviewer]

There was this article that came out after Michael Jackson died. The New York Times wrote it and they were. The basis of the article is they were shocked at how little money Michael Jackson made.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that's the thing that most people understand and we're not crying poor, but we're saying is it's not what people think it is.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, no, of course not. Of course not. Yeah. I mean, we bought the castle in 1985, you know.

[Interviewer]

Sorry, when you say we bought a.

[Wendy Dio]

Castle, it's not really a castle, but it's, it's on a hill. We live next door to Vin Diesel.

[Interviewer]

Oh, very good.

[Wendy Dio]

Yeah. And so I don't know where he is lately. He's, he's not there, but yeah, so it's, it's, we made it the way it is. It's very medieval inside and everything's very medieval.

[Interviewer]

So last thing, because I'm just curious. And of course we wish Ronnie was still here to help us market the music and do all those fantastic things. Just talk a little bit about what it's like to. Because first you have the emotional navigation of. You have to constantly be in the energy of old times. Ryuishingo concert. There's his voice. It's gotta be hard. Certain days, I imagine, I don't know or do you feel close because you're always together.

[Wendy Dio]

I feel close because in my office. I have an office in Canoga park, and it's pictures of him and things. All because we have in our house. Ronnie refused to have any gold records whatsoever. Nothing. Because he's very humble person. So they're all in my office. Everything's in my office. So I walk in the office, and Ronnie everywhere is Ronnie. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So. But past the emotional part, just talk about the business of the posthumous, business of, you know, how to manage a legacy, like.

[Wendy Dio]

Right. Well, you know, we found things in the vault, actually. I did find recently some things that have not come out, so. Because Ronnie would go down in the studio and he'd put a song down, and he'd put it down with his playing guitar, playing the bass drum machine, whatever, and then he would go proper studio with the musicians and Drake. So there are a lot of those things with songs that didn't make it okay with his vocal on. So we've talked about taking the band. His band and keeping his vocal and then recording.

[Interviewer]

That'd be cool.

[Wendy Dio]

So those are things, you know, that we were talking about and doing things. There's a couple of songs, actually. Funnily enough. He would never write a love song, but he did write two love songs for me, which are recorded, have never been out, and I'm tempted to put them out, but then I'm like, would he kill me for this? Because they're love songs.

[Interviewer]

Well, it's obvious that he loved you and you loved him, and I think that's.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, yeah. We were soulmates, I think. You know, obviously, we had ups and downs all the time. I left a few times and came back, but, you know, those things happen.

[Interviewer]

No, it's beautiful because I'm in business with my wife as well. And it just strikes me that the family of music is the best way to say it. And here we are talking about Sharon and Ozzy and Tony and. And we're in this kind of bigger family. And unfortunately, the music business has a terrible history of ripping people like us off.

[Wendy Dio]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

So it makes total sense that he turned to the one person he trusted the most in you.

[Wendy Dio]

Exactly. That's what I said. He'd rather screw me than get screwed. That's what I used to always say.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you so much, Wendy.

[Wendy Dio]

It's nice talking to you. Absolutely. A very, very interesting.

[Interviewer]

Thank you.

[Wendy Dio]

Very interesting. Thank you.