2444 - Trumps Authoritarian Gambit w/ Heather Digby Parton

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Majority Report with Sam Seder Episode 2444: "Trump's Authoritarian Gambit" with Heather Digby Parton Release Date: February 28, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 2444 of The Majority Report with Sam Seder, host Sam Seder engages in a deep and critical discussion with Heather Digby Parton, the proprietor of the blog Hullabaloo and columnist for Salon.com. The episode delves into the multifaceted strategies employed by former President Donald Trump and Elon Musk to undermine U.S. governmental institutions, the legal pushback from Democratic state attorneys general, and the broader implications for American democracy and foreign policy.

Dismantling the Administrative State

Key Discussion: The conversation opens with an analysis of the Republican agenda, reminiscent of Reagan-era rhetoric, aimed at dismantling the administrative state. Heather Digby Parton highlights how Trump, along with his allies like Musk and figures within the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), have been systematically attacking federal agencies.

Notable Quote:

"Demonize federal workers, which they've been doing for, you know, at least 15, 16 years as, as long as I can remember, and demonize recipients of government help."
— Heather Parton [06:05]

Insights:

• Federal Workforce Cuts: Trump’s administration ordered the reversal of firing probationary workers and plans significant workforce reductions in the Social Security Administration and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
• Impact on Humanitarian Efforts: Dismantling USAID and reducing FEMA’s managerial staff are seen as moves to cripple humanitarian responses and control mechanisms.
• Legal Obstacles: Federal judges, particularly in California, have begun reversing some of Trump's directives, showcasing the resistance from the judiciary.

Legal Resistance and State-Level Pushback

Key Discussion: Heather emphasizes the proactive measures taken by Democratic attorneys general across states, who have been collaborating since 2023 to prepare legal cases against the Trump administration's policies.

Notable Quote:

"They are working on that in some of the states, like in California, I didn't even know this, but have something like 5,000 people working in the attorney General's office in California."
— Heather Parton [23:04]

Insights:

• Strategic Collaboration: Democratic AGs have unified strategies to counteract federal policies, contrasting with the more fragmented approach seen during Trump's first term.
• Court Battles: The influx of over 80 lawsuits has strained the Department of Justice (DOJ), forcing them to take stances on which cases to prioritize or concede.

Trump and Musk's Budgetary Manipulations

Key Discussion: The conversation shifts to the controversial budget resolution spearheaded by Trump and Musk, which aims to cut Social Security and Medicaid significantly while reallocating funds to border security and tech-driven military programs.

Notable Quote:

"When we're spending more on our interest, Payments, almost a trillion dollars, than we are on our military."
— Emma Vigland [08:36]

Insights:

• Medicaid Cuts: Proposed work requirements could disqualify millions, particularly the elderly and disabled, from receiving benefits, while actual budget cuts target $880 billion from Medicaid over a decade.
• Political Tensions: Republicans face backlash from constituents who depend on these social safety nets, while Musk's financial influence threatens to override voter sentiments.
• Reallocation of Funds: The budget includes substantial investments in defense technology and border security, reflecting a shift towards militarization and surveillance.

The Role of Elon Musk in Government Undermining

Key Discussion: Heather introduces a theory about Musk’s involvement, suggesting his motives may be driven by a desire to amass data critical for advancements in artificial intelligence (AI).

Notable Quote:

"AI requires data. It requires massive amounts of data. And he is catching up. He was behind on that. And in catching up, what he thought of, and it's a pretty smart thought, was that, where can I get data... that is the U.S. government."
— Heather Parton [30:44]

Insights:

• Data Acquisition: Musk’s interest in government data is posited as a foundational step for enhancing AI capabilities, potentially manipulating or leveraging governmental information for private gains.
• Political Influence: By reducing federal workforce and control, Musk and Trump aim to create bureaucratic inefficiencies that further their long-term objectives.

Domestic Political Dynamics and MAGA’s Influence

Key Discussion: The episode examines the internal conflicts within the Republican Party, especially how unlimited funding from figures like Musk is altering their political strategies and complicating their relationship with constituents.

Notable Quote:

"This is the culmination of the post Citizens United world."
— Sam Seder [44:25]

Insights:

• Endless Campaign Financing: With Musk’s vast financial resources, the traditional electoral dynamics are disrupted, making it difficult for Republicans to balance donor interests with voter demands.
• Constituent Backlash: As Trump leverages his base through aggressive tactics and unlimited funding, there is growing frustration among moderate Republicans and general constituents who oppose severe cuts to social programs.

Zelensky and Trump’s Tumultuous Meeting

Key Discussion: A heated exchange between President Trump, Senator J.D. Vance, and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is dissected, illustrating the performative nature of Trump’s foreign policy maneuvers.

Notable Quote:

"You do this deal or you're going to be on your own."
— Trump, during meeting [69:03]

Insights:

• Public Dispute: The confrontation is viewed as a staged attempt by Trump to showcase dominance and secure a narrative of strong leadership, despite the underlying instability it reveals.
• Foreign Policy Shift: Trump's handling of Ukraine marks a departure from established U.S. foreign policy, moving towards a more transactional and less principled approach.
• Media Impact: The confrontation is expected to go viral, reinforcing Trump’s image among his base while further alienating moderate voters.

Implications for American Democracy and Global Order

Key Discussion: Heather discusses the broader implications of these internal U.S. political struggles on the global stage, particularly concerning NATO and the post-World War II order.

Notable Quote:

"This is going to be a very dangerous transition for us and we're going to see some real interesting things."
— Heather Parton [84:45]

Insights:

• NATO’s Future: The weakening of U.S. commitment to NATO could embolden adversarial nations and destabilize European security, as seen with Finland and Sweden's recent NATO membership seeks.
• Nuclear Arms Race: The potential for countries like Germany to reconsider nuclear armament signals a perilous shift from pre-existing global security norms.
• Technocratic Feudalism: The rise of tech magnates like Musk who operate with near-feudal autonomy poses a threat to traditional democratic institutions and economic stability.

Concluding Remarks

The episode concludes with a somber reflection on the state of American politics, highlighting the erosion of democratic norms, the aggressive dismantling of social safety nets, and the unsettling alliance between political power and unbridled techno-capitalist influence. Heather Digby Parton and Emma Vigland express deep concern over the current trajectory, emphasizing the urgent need for grassroots movements, unionization, and legal battles to counteract the authoritarian tendencies creeping into U.S. governance.

Notable Quote:

"The fight here feels like it's on a different scale than the kinds of legislative point, counterpoint stuff that I think Democrats and Republicans are used to fighting over."
— Sam Seder [25:27]

Final Thoughts: The conversation underscores a critical moment in American history where institutional integrity is under siege. The interplay between legal resistance, political internal conflict, and foreign policy turbulence paints a dire picture of the nation's path forward, necessitating immediate and concerted efforts to preserve democracy and social welfare.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Demonize federal workers...and demonize recipients of government help." — Heather Parton [06:05]
• "They hate the bureaucracy unless it prevents people from getting any type of government benefits." — Emma Vigland [11:32]
• "This is the culmination of the post Citizens United world." — Sam Seder [44:25]
• "You do this deal or you're going to be on your own." — Trump, during meeting [69:03]
• "This is going to be a very dangerous transition for us and we're going to see some real interesting things." — Heather Parton [84:45]
• "The fight here feels like it's on a different scale than the kinds of legislative point, counterpoint stuff that I think Democrats and Republicans are used to fighting over." — Sam Seder [25:27]

---

Final Note

For more in-depth analysis and ongoing updates on these critical issues, listeners are encouraged to visit Majority.FM and explore additional content such as the AM Quickie and other segments offered by The Majority Report.

Transcript

[Sam Seder]

You are listening to a free version of Majority Report with Sam Steder. To support the show and get another.

[Emma Vigland]

15 minutes of daily program, go to majority SM please. The majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Friday, February 28, 2025. My name is Sam Seder. This is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, proprietor of the Uber blog hullabaloo [e-mail] Heather Parton. You may know her as Digby. Also on the program today, federal judge in California orders reversal of Trump's firing of the probationary workers. Meanwhile, Trump plans on cutting Social Security administration workforce by 50%. Meanwhile, Trump and Musk fire 500 from the National Ocean Ash oceanic and Atmospheric Administration 800 more to be fired soon. And as Trump and Musk dismantle usaid, the acting inspector general, this is the one that was appointed by Trump, sits on a report showing devastating impact on humanitarian work. Meanwhile, the Trump administration struggles in attempting to rehire fire bird flu control employees. This as FEMA is losing hundreds of top managers. Pentagon now identifying trans troops for removal. And the anti war Trump eases rules on avoiding civilian casualties in airstrikes and special ops. Trump reiterates that tariffs on Mexico and Canada 25% will start on Tuesday. Republicans now planning a year long continuing resolution. And MAGA apparently actually confused as to why Trump is not releasing the real Epstein files. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome ladies and gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining us. Emma Vigland, it is, it is, as you know, it's Friday and also economic blackout day today.

[Sam Seder]

Yes. So if you have the ability not to spend or just use cash, local businesses, that's what's being encouraged. Although we're not going to boycott our way out of this. Right. We need action in the streets, we need unionization, we need solidarity movements. And still if you can, it's an easy way to at least feel like you have some control over the situation.

[Emma Vigland]

Withholding labor generally I think is more powerful than with home withholding your actions as a consumer. But if I, I think, you know, these type of things are, are contagious. So we have, we got an IM early on saying that there, you know that somebody's like listening on the app as opposed to watching on YouTube so that they can avoid providing ads. Be my guest. You know the, whatever, whatever works, whatever you can show in some way I think could be helpful. Obviously a lot of stuff to get to today, there really does feel like there is a turn to a return to the sort of Reagan era rhetoric by the Republicans. And to be clear, this was around pre Trump and in many respects Trump sort of pushed that out. But now I don't think he cares. I mean, I think like the agenda has been farmed out. He's getting paid, he knows that he is protected. All of his cronies are in all of these agencies now. They had worked early on and I think, you know, it wasn't till late in Trump's first term that I think he sort of bought into this notion, this OMB notion, this Russell Vaught notion of destroying, although Steve Bannon was talking about it very early on in, in 2017, in the first Trump term. To destroy the administrative state. Right. And to do that, if you look at the sequencing, what you have to do is basically two things. Demonize federal workers, which they've been doing for, you know, at least 15, 16 years as, as long as I can remember, and demonize recipients of government help, which again, Ronald Reagan, talking about the welfare queens coming out of the Cadillacs. Reagan wasn't terribly subtle, but those were, you know, less subtle times.

[Sam Seder]

Oh yeah, less subtle than Trump. I mean, like Trump. My point is, is just that Trump has kind of just, he abandons all the pretense. Even when he talks about we want Ukraine's mineral, he's more, he's saying some of the quiet stuff about, you know, our foreign policy out loud, but in this weird topsy turvy way.

[Emma Vigland]

I'm talking more about like sort of fully racializing who are recipients of government programs. And there is a, you know, there is a slight return to this. It is back in favor. I mean, Trump, of course, I think is just sort of half checked out anyways. But here is a, this is, would you say this is a moderate, right? A Never Trumper. Was this guy a Never Trumper? Officially, this isn't the guy who sponsored the bill.

[Heather Parton]

This is a supporter, Pat Fallon.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, I see.

[Heather Parton]

Okay.

[Emma Vigland]

Yes, he's a little bit. The bill is sponsored by a Never Trump, right? Yeah. I mean, Liz Cheney sort of problem solver guy, right? Problem solver, yeah. Here is Representative Pat Fallon, Republican from Texas. And understand this does a double work, right? Because if you can justify cutting food stamps, you can justify cutting Medicaid, you can justify cutting, I mean, never mind Medicaid. I mean, are we really going to pay for food for kids wasting away in Sudan? I mean, come on, they got to get off the couch too. Here is this Texas Republican on with foxes, Dagan McDowell.

[Heather Parton]

A new house bill that could expand food stamp requirements, meaning that if you're going to get food stamps in this country or snap you and you're able bodied and childless and you're 18 to 65, you have to work at least 20 hours a week. Why isn't this the law?

[Emma Vigland]

Right, it should be the law. You know what, we have a message for those kind of folks. If you're able bodied and you want to milk the taxpayer, those days are over. Get off the couch, stop eating the Cheetos, stop buying the medical marijuana and watching television, you're going to actually contribute now because the American taxpayer is fed up. And as Elon Musk mentioned in that segment prior, we can't fund the federal government anymore with these kind of deficits.

[Heather Parton]

When we're spending more on our interest.

[Emma Vigland]

Payments, almost a trillion dollars, than we are on our military. Hear. All right, I don't need to hear the rest of this. What's her name? Dagan McDow. Why isn't this the law? Bradley, click on that link that I sent you. Oh yeah. Why isn't this the law? In fact, it is the law. There are already work requirements for ab able bodied Americans. However, you need to work at least 20 hours a week per month. So for 80 hours a week. Excuse me, 80 hours a month. If you want to collect food stamps over a 90 day period of time, the only difference that this law makes is that it raises the age in which you must do this from ages 16 to 59. 16 to 59 to 65 now. Yeah, 18 to 55 to 18 to 65. I think it's 59. You look at the general work requirements right there.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, 59.

[Emma Vigland]

Okay.

[Sam Seder]

And yeah, so basically it raises it to 65 then. Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

And it's basically saying, yeah, we're going to get all of those 60 year olds who are just, they're looking around, they're going, hey man, I got so much money for retirement, I don't need to work. I'm going to get my medical marijuana, I'm going to watch TV and eat my Cheetos and I'm going to use food stamps to cruise into my retirement. I mean this is just understand that if you lose your job at age 59, the chances of you finding another job are just much less so than if you're 35.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly.

[Emma Vigland]

And we are now this is basically the name of this bill should be starve our elderly who are not old enough yet to get Social Security.

[Sam Seder]

Exactly. Right. And already the percentage of folks that are above the age of 60 receiving SNAP benefits, it's 18.3% per 2022, by the way. You can see, like over a third of SNAP participants are children. But that fraction is essentially who they're going to be targeting. The adults age 60 and older. And a percentage of those are probably already working. They're just the working poor on snap, because we know that there are many people who are working and working multiple jobs, getting paid a minimum wage, essentially, who still have to go on food stamps.

[Emma Vigland]

And they're also, what we're going to see is their definition of able bodied. I mean, understand, there's no button. There's no. Again, there's no sign that pops up over your head when you walk in to get your SNAP eligibility that says able bodied or not able bodied, you have to go through an extended inquiry process. It is. They hate the bureaucracy unless it prevents people from getting any type of government benefits. That's what this is about. That's what it's about when we talk about Medicaid. That's what it's about in any of these circumstances. It is a way to cut people's benefits and to keep people from signing up when they're eligible by making the hurdles that much higher. We see it in the context of unemployment insurance in different states. They make it that much harder. And they're going to do it with Social Security by cutting the Social Security administration staff because then it's going to take you longer to get problems resolved. It's going to take longer for things to get processed. This is the way they go about doing it so they don't have to take the political hit, the direct political hit of just saying we want to screw over the neediest, the oldest, the, the unluckiest, whomever it is in our society.

[Sam Seder]

Right. Because they don't want to touch that third rail. But they do want to create that anxiety when people have a relationship with the government, which is people love their Social Security, they love their Medicare. These are extremely popular programs. And that is a direct threat to the Republican agenda. And it's been that way since like the Reagan years, as you mentioned. The difference is, is that Trump didn't even get to 50% in the popular vote this time. And these fools are out there acting like they have a mandate like Reagan 2.0, winning an electoral college like landslide, essentially. That's what they're. They're acting like they're feeling themselves in this way. And I don't know how you know how they can get out of this without a major political hit? Because even if they're not, they're saying the Republican budget isn't going to cut Social Security if they still make it more difficult for people to interact with their Social Security. That's going to be obvious to folks.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, let's save this conversation for take.

[Sam Seder]

Me because I'm not, I'm not doing wishful thinking. But like his, it's. His approval rating is already taking a hit.

[Emma Vigland]

I agree.

[Sam Seder]

He came in with a very low approval rating and a short honeymoon period. He's already an incredibly divisive figure in this country. And to burn your first 100 days on like cutting air traffic controllers and going after the Social Security administration. Good luck. Good luck.

[Emma Vigland]

I have another theory about this, but let's talk about it with Digby because I am concerned that when you walk into a Social Security Administration office, you call that 1-800-help-line or when you call the IRS direct file and all of a sudden it's not working, that your average person doesn't necessarily think, oh, this is a function of the cuts that Musk and Doge and Trump did. They just go, government doesn't work. But we will. Let's table that. That debate. First, a couple of words from our sponsors. Then we're going to be talking to Heather Parton, or you may know her as Digby, our first sponsor for today. Oh, I've got it right here. Every day. Every day. And I feel it when I don't. I have my Liquid iv. This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. You know, we're still close to the beginning of the year. Maybe you want to start a new ritual, get into the habit of doing something that is good for you. This is the one that I've had for five years. You don't need a bottle like this. This is like an old milk bottle. But this is what I do every day, and that is throughout this show. I am drinking water that has Liquid IV in it. And so it is three times more hydrating than water alone. It is powered Liquid IV by Liv Hydro Science has flavors like their hydration multiplier sugar free raspberry lemonade, which is exactly what I'm enjoying today. It is zero sugar, tastes like raspberry lemonade. It has freshly picked raspberry notes that I and citrusy lemon. I mean, people know what raspberry lemonade tastes like. Every day, two bottles of this. And I feel it. At the end of the day, I just feel better. And it also obviously keeps me hydrated during the show. They have all sorts of different flavors on their website. Acai berry, lemon, lime.

[Sam Seder]

That's my favorite pina colada.

[Emma Vigland]

I also have a weakness for. They have, like I say, new sugar free, the raspberry lemonade, rainbow sherbet, white peach. They have a raspberry melon too. I think you can make your own ritual of this or just, you know, whenever you travel you could take these packs with you. It's great to stay hydrated on planes and to avoid jet lag, et cetera, et cetera. One stick plus 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. They have an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins, clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink. Eight essential vitamins and nutrients always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. Embrace your ritual with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to LiquidIV.com and use the code majority rep at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop. Better hydration today using promo code majority rep@liquid IV.com also today's program sponsored by one of my favorite sponsors. Of course I'm talking about Sunset Lake Saba Day. Use the code left is best. You get 20% off. You get 20% off of tinctures. You get 20% off of of salves and lotions, smokables. 20% off of Saba Day Coffee, Sabade Fudge. You get 20% off of of gummies. They got gummies with Ted say and Saba Day. They got gummies with melatonin to help you sleep. They got tinctures in all sorts of different concentrations and different formulations. Some to help you relax, some to help you sleep. They've got gummies with ashwaga mushrooms to help you relax and some to provide focus. A wide array of stuff, but it's all third party tested. They, they have great farming practices, integrated pest management. They don't use any pesticides. They use regenerative farming practices to protect the soil. Great business practices, $20 minimum wage, mostly employee owned and they are movement partners. They have donated tens of thousands of dollars to things like strike relief funds and refugee resettlement and food pantries, Planned Parenthood, carceral reform. They've engaged in mutual aid up in Vermont in the wake of the floods there a couple years ago. Just a great company, great product. Do yourself a favor sunsetlakesebade.com left is best, 20% off. All right, quick break, and then we will be talking to Heather Parton or Digby. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, want to welcome our next guest, Heather Parton, [e-mail] Proprietor of the Uber blog Hullabaloo. We are back on the Majority Report. Sam Cedar, Emma Vigland, and of course, Heather Parton. Heather, welcome back. You know, I was, like, just, like, contemplating this, and I just thought, like, how many times over the years have we had a conversation and then we're both like, wow, this was thoroughly depressing, but hope springs eternal. And I already, like, I feel like it's. It's almost like we're already at the end of most of the conversations we've had over the course of probably, I think, 15, 20 years. That's where we're starting in some respects.

[Heather Parton]

Yes, yes, we are starting right where at the moment of saying, well, that was really depressing. And now we're moving into total despair. At least I am. And I expect that, you know, a lot of people are. It's. It's. It's frankly unbelievable. I don't think we've talked since the inauguration, have we? No, because we talked after the election, but I don't think we talked. We talked since the inauguration. So it's been. I think I described it in my piece for Salon today as a maelstrom. It is beyond distressing and dangerous and overwhelming and almost to the point where I'm not sure that any of us can really see clearly the way out. We're basically trying to survive it at this point, but there are obviously things that can be done. I mean, there is an opposition party that ostensibly exists, so, you know, we.

[Emma Vigland]

Will talk about that.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah. And, and, you know, there. There are, you know, forces at work. You know, I read a thing yesterday about the, you know, and I had written about this actually a couple months ago, that how the Democratic attorneys general in the states have been actually planning for the legal, you know, the, the legal responses. I mean, they actually started meeting in 2023, apparently to try and prepare for this, knowing that when in. During the first term, they were unprepared. And so they had to really scramble to put together the legal cases that they needed to bring against the administration. And many of them were successful, you know, the travel ban or whatever. I mean, and at the very least, they slowed things down. But this time, they really wanted to be together. So they are working on that in some of the states, like in California, I didn't even know this, but have something like 5,000 people working in the attorney General's office in California. And they have devoted a tremendous amount of, you know, resources to trying to prepare for this. So a lot of the court cases that are happening, and obviously there are, you know, individuals, there are unions, there are all kinds of institutions that are, that are doing this, that are trying to attack this on the legal front. But this particular group, they are Democrats, and they've been meeting together, this is 23 of them. They've been meeting together for many, many months to try and prepare for it. And I thought to myself, as I'm reading it, I'm going, oh, my God, when's the last time you thought any Democrats would actually have been that, you.

[Emma Vigland]

Know, showing some type of foresight and proactively.

[Heather Parton]

And proactively putting something together, you know, because it seemed like everybody was just assuming, well, of course we're going to win. I mean, come on, you know, Trump's not going to get back in. And you. There was this whole idea that somehow or another it was kind of impossible. And I frankly, you know, there was part of me who was kind of thinking that, too. So this was. So that's heartening in the sense that at least there's something out there. There's some kind of institutional pushback, and the states still have a lot of power and there are things to do. So I don't mean to be too disparaging or too fatalistic about this, but it's really bad.

[Sam Seder]

It's really bad. You're hitting on something just, like, important that I wanted to put a pin in about the states and how they were ahead of the Democrats in Washington. There, I think, really is a major divide with either the state's attorneys general, like Tish James, who was ahead of this, and others, and the governors who already had some stuff in place to protect their citizens, whether it be Pritzker and Walls or Whitmer who have just been better. And then the, the, the Washington Democrats awash in this consultant cash are unable to respond. And I think it's a really stark difference in between what we're seeing out of the states and the D.C. democrats, who I think are kind of just like institutionalists, only at this point almost.

[Heather Parton]

Well, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think it's. And that's not to say there aren't individuals in D.C. that have been pretty good. I mean, I think AOC her responses, and she's being personally targeted now by, by Tom Homan, the Immigration Czar. There are others, I think Chris Murphy, you know, certain people in the Democratic caucus in both houses have been pretty good. I mean, at least they've been sounding the alarm that, hey, you know, this is real and it is a big problem. But I'm telling you, the leadership is just miserable. And I don't see that it's creative. I don't see any sense that they understand that we're living in a new political world that doesn't respond to, you know, the evening news showing a floor speech or, you know, Chuck Schumer standing outside a building going, we will win. I mean, none of that works. It's just not, it's, it's, it's embarrassing.

[Emma Vigland]

It's incredibly cringe. But there are two points. One, I want to say we spoke to Chris Geidner this week about those legal cases. And broadly speaking, the most interesting thing that he, you know, pointed out in my mind, or broad dynamic is that that preparation is despite from as a political matter, we're being inundated by stuff that coming. It's like, you know, drinking from a fire hose. The response of 80 lawsuits plus against the administration has actually like changed the dynamic. So from on, on the legal side, they are getting the fire hose because they don't have the resources in the DOJ to go and address all these things. So a lot of times what they're having to do is they're having to punt, they're having to just sort of like, you know, you know, we need to put a pin in this and we'll agree with it or we won't fight this case. And what it's also doing is it's forcing them, at least at this juncture, to concede that the courts have a role in this, which is of course, like, that's the break the glass worst case scenario that they're ignoring the, the court's jurisdiction in these matters. The other, the other point is, I would just want to note like when you, when, when you first said like, you know, it's, you were describing the adjectives. You did not say unexpected. Right? Like, I mean, this is stuff that I know that we, you know, the three of us have talked about months before the election, the, the assault. And it's just seeing it in real time happen and watching it go according to what essentially their plan was, is, is one of the more disturbing parts about it, I think.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, first of all, we talked about this months and months ago. The project 2025 detailed most of this. Certainly the, you know, Steve Bannon's what he used to call the deconstruction of the administrative state. The fact that they were planning to use Schedule F, which was supposedly going to take away civil service protections for all the, for all the federal workers. We knew that this was on the agenda. Now, Trump, you know, he has a sort of a feral instinct for this stuff. He disavowed Project 2025 because it was really ugly, as we're seeing. And he said, oh, you know, it's really extreme and I've never even read it. And Susie Wiles, his chief of staff, sent out memos saying, you will regret it if you try and tie Project 2025 to us. We knew that, that that was absolutely the plan and that the people were, that were working on it were Trump people. And, you know, Russell Vogt, who's now OMB and was last time, he was kind of the, the main ideologue behind this deconstruction of the, of the administrative state. We knew that he was going to be in the administration. So it was not unexpected. I think the one thing that I did not expect was the role of Elon Musk in. And the way that they are going about it through this technology aspect of it. I don't know if you read the piece in the New York Times this morning about how Elon's has, how this whole thing came about, how the Doge idea came about, if you haven't read it, because.

[Emma Vigland]

Was this part of the reboot, the reboot conference in September? We were speaking to what. I can't remember his name.

[Sam Seder]

Gail Duran.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah, Gil Duran, who was talking about the reboot conference in September where this sort of Russell Vogt meets the Tech Bros and their agendas. You know, on one hand, one is more Straussian. We can. I mean, I honestly think a lot of these people are just like, it's not a problem if there's a mass starvation and whatnot. That's actually sort of the plan. Our AI is going to be much more efficient if there's just less people to deal with. Less people, you know, sucking the oxygen. That, that part of it, I think, is the is. Is a little bit of the twist. And I mean, finish your thought, because I think there's another element about Musk that is also fundamentally changing the political, the politics here. And Emma and I had touched on it briefly before you came on.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, well, what this article says is that Musk had been, according to the article, he'd been sort of radicalized by the idea of. I don't Know by Twitter, basically. I mean, they don't say that, but we know that's what happened. He became an Internet troll, went down the. Went down the rabbit hole there of Twitter, and it. It changed his thinking. He's also got a lot of, you know, maybe stimulants that are pushing him in a certain direction, but whatever.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind, and I feel very confident saying cocaine and ketamine.

[Heather Parton]

Ketamine, Yeah, I agree. So he.

[Emma Vigland]

I'll put that out there. Go ahead. Sorry.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, sure. Let's just say I'm not unfamiliar with some people's. The way some people behave in that circumstance. And it looks very familiar. He, in 2023, now, this is going back two years ago, he had a meeting. There were a bunch of people apparently, down in Florida in which he proposed. Posed this DOGE thing. Now, I did not know that he was talking about this in 2023. I did not realize that this had been plotted that far in advance and that he was doing it. And in fact, it was before he got next to Trump. It was before he decided to go all in on the campaign. And this thing was. Has been percolating in his mind for a long time, and he has been thinking about this. Now, this goes to the Gil Duran thing, the way that whole ideology that sort of developed around. Well, he ripped it, if you are.

[Sam Seder]

He ripped off Rage with Doge. Right. Which was Retire all government employees. And he made it because he's never had an original thought. Moss, he's just.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, so, yeah, he's just one of those guys. Yeah, so he, he, he had, you know, this. He's been in that. In that group. Although he thinks he's a genius, just like Trump. He thinks he's a genius and thought of everything the first time that people have been talking about for years. Well, here's the interesting thing. Well, I don't know if it's interesting, but it's interesting to me. I was listening to a podcast the other day with Kara Swisher, who you may or may not have any real respect for, but I do that she has known Musk for a long time. And what she said struck me. I just kind of went, whoa, that's what this is about. She said, this is all about AI and that basically, AI requires data. It requires massive amounts of data. And he is catching up. He was, you know, he and Sam Altman were together on OpenAI and then they had a falling out because Trump didn't want to do it nonprofit or Musk didn't want to do it nonprofit. He wanted to make money. So they broke off. And Musk has been behind on the AI thing. This is one aspect of technology that he has not been. Now, keep in mind that, like the financial markets, one of the big reasons for the boom that we've had for the last couple of years is all about people get excited about AI. All the top tech companies have been leading that bull market. So Musk has been behind on that. And in catching up, what he thought of, and it's a pretty smart thought, was that, where can I get. You know, data is everything. It is what makes. It's what feeds AI. And they're coming to a point where there isn't a lot of data that's available for them to scoop up for AI. But there's one place where there is a massive amount of data that's out there and that nobody has access to, and that is the U.S. government. And it's not only about our Social Security numbers and our financial information, although that's very good. It's also a lot of data about competitors, about lawsuits, about suspicion. You know, think about the FBI, what the kind of data they have in there. The first thing that he did when he came in was he went directly, He. He discovered there was this digital service in the government that Barack Obama had put together in the wake of the Obamacare debacle. And he realized that that was. That was the entry point into all of this data. Now, I didn't come up with this myself. This is. I'm listening to Kara Swisher say. She says it very, you know, kind of casually, sort of. Well, it's all about AI. That's what he's there for. He's there to collect all the data. And, you know, she's questioned, well, I mean, can he use that data? I mean, is he allowed to use it for his personal use? And she goes, well, who's going to stop him? I mean. Right. Yeah, of course. So, you know, I don't. I hate to sound like a rank conspiracy theorist here, but I don't think that that's. That, that's really a ridiculous thought. It seems almost more about it for years.

[Emma Vigland]

It seems more absurd that he wouldn't do it. I mean, I don't think that's. That doesn't have to be the only reason why he did it. I think it could just also be like, I can justify. Return my return on investment on my $300 million that I'm going to invest in getting Trump elected. I'M going to get payback.

[Heather Parton]

He's getting contracts. He's doing this f he's paying himself. I mean, no doubt about it. There are a million. There are many reasons why he would do this, and some of it's just he's a megalomaniac and he loves attention and he's, you know, incredible weirdo. I mean, there are a lot of reasons, and also the ketamine, a lot of reasons why he's doing it. But this one strikes me as at the heart of what, of what he is after that makes it, you know, and it's something that Donald Trump, of course, this is way beyond his Ken. And I'm not even sure that anybody else would care about this. Russ Vogt, he really does want to dismantle the government. He really does want to, you know, turn it into. He's a Christian nationalist. I mean, he wants to. He has a big ideology. Russ Vogt does, and it's Christian nationalist. And so I think that, you know, that when you're looking at the big picture here of what's happening, there's a lot more going on than meets the eye. And part of the maelstrom is, is that we're having a hard time wrapping our minds around, around what is happening and why it's happening. And yet. And in that circumstance, it's hard to know exactly what to do. I mean, how do you go after a situation like this when it has this kind of levels of complexity of motivations? I mean, Trump, I think, is purely motivated. I wrote about this today, purely motivated by, at this point, by revenge. He's making money, no doubt about it. He's in crypto. He's got all kinds of going with the Saudis. He's got all kinds of stuff going on and no longer has any concern about potential, you know, conflicts or corruption. He doesn't care at all. And he'll, I mean, he's, you know, selling merch at the Resolute desk the other day. He doesn't care. So that's not it. He's making money. And I, you know, he's no longer worried about the law. The law is no longer relevant to him. The thing that is driving him is vengeance. And you can see it in every single aspect of this. And I honestly think that even letting Elon Musk destroy the government is part of that. He is so angry that he is allowing this to happen because he hates everybody.

[Emma Vigland]

I have a theory about, about, about that aspect of it. But the whole thing, as you describe it, with the different sort of incentive structures. Reminds me of Paul Wolfowitz going, like, weapons of mass destruction was just the thing we agreed on, right? Like, you had the neocons who are like, what this is going to be? We're going to create a free market experiment. And I think, you know, Cheney was like, we're gonna keep China from getting access to Jeffersonian democracy. You know, the. The oil in this area. And Bush is like, I'm gonna show my dad I'm a man. Like, you know, Jeb's not better than me, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna be the one who event. You know, like everybody, they all had their own sort of, like, specific incentive. And they just all said, like, oh, these agendas are aligned, even if we have slightly different motivations behind them. But the point about Musk, and this is the thing that I want to talk just about this budget resolution, too, because. And I think this has to do with Musk as well. And this is the thing that is really the scariest part to me. A lot of people did not expect this budget resolution to pass. And to be clear, it's just the beginning of a process. But it's politically toxic. I mean, because even if this budget doesn't pass, you know, if you're Nancy Stock Tipoulos, or whatever her name is.

[Sam Seder]

Stock Tips, say.

[Emma Vigland]

Or if you're, you know, a Republican in California or any, you know, Pennsylvania or whatnot, you're going to pay for this vote, even if. Even if it never comes to fruition. But they got everybody to vote for it. And I think that's because there is an unlimited amount, literally an infinite amount of money that can now be deployed and is ready to be deployed by Elon Musk to make sure that Donald, that the. And that's the. And that's my point about this. The politics being toxic here. The. It's always attention, right? If you're a frontline Republican, am I worried about my primary or am I worried about the general? But if somebody comes in and says the reason why you should worry more about your general is because there's going. I mean, in your primary is because there's going to be more money spent in that primary than the general. If you do not vote the way I want you to vote, I'm coming in there. $30 million, okay, 100 million. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

[Heather Parton]

Coins in the couch.

[Emma Vigland]

That is, I think, fundamentally altering the calculations that these Republicans are making. And it means that the political price they have to pay is gotta be even higher than it's ever, ever been before. I mean, prior to an election.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, I totally agree with you. And in fact, yeah, I don't know if you saw this this week, but Donald Trump himself said that now he's going to throw some of his money into primaries. And he's got, I mean, he's not Musk, but I mean, this is part, this is definitely part of their calculation. It is what they're using as an ex, as a, as a, you know, a weapon against Republicans to whip those votes. I mean, he called up, you know, what's her name? Victoria Spark. Is it Victoria? I can't remember.

[Sam Seder]

Indiana crazy lady.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, Nutty lady. And she went to vote no. And apparently he just reamed her out with a big threat that he was going to take her out. Now it's kind of interesting because she was going to retire at one point anyway and then changed her mind in the last election. So who knows what's happening with her. But yeah, I think that's a huge fear factor. And you pile on top of that. You know, the MAGA threats that come whenever you do something go against Donald Trump. And yes, they are in a very, very, very precarious position there. And I don't think, I don't, you know, I guess we can all be terrified that somehow or another they'll pull it off, but I don't actually, I don't see how that works for them in any case, whether they pass it or not. And I think that that make forcing those votes will be held over their heads. And when you're seeing what's happening in the districts with the pushback coming from their own constituents over what's going on with Musk, and apparently it's not, you know, it's Musk. And that budget resolution, when they heard, when people heard about the Medicaid, they're not even cuts. It's decimation of Medicaid is what they're talking about. It was Musk and it was that Medicaid thing in those town halls that people were talking about. So they're stuck. And, you know, I mean, 20 million.

[Sam Seder]

People were added under the Affordable Care act when with Medicaid expansion, that's a transformational thing. It's not enough. But people know that our social safety net in this country is extremely threadbare. And Medicaid is one of the things that keeps millions of people from basically being thrown to the streets without having any health care. And what is just so stark about the dynamic that we're describing here is, is that these Republicans constituents are saying, don't do this. This is supposed to be what democracy is about. On the other side is the world's richest man saying, don't listen to your constituents. This is the culmination of the post Citizens United world.

[Heather Parton]

Yes.

[Sam Seder]

So it's what, it's what Sam talks about with the Reagan style politics of going after the poor aggressively, but also with the added corrupting element of having the world's richest man calling the shots despite the constituents freaking out because this isn't a Reagan style landslide. Trump didn't get to 50% in the, in the, in the national popular vote. He still won it. But the reality is, is like this is just about how much can they withstand with their constituents screaming out and balancing that against the wishes of this billionaire.

[Heather Parton]

No doubt about it. Absolutely. I mean, that is, that is, and that is the sort of fundamental argument that has to be made. In fact, I read something interesting this morning on one of the social media things that they've tested some things, some messages with people, I can't remember who it was. But the one thing that absolutely has people freaking out is the fact that Musk cut research for, you know, cut cancer research. Yeah, that, it's that sort of thing. And when you, when you say that, you know, when you say, look, he's cutting cancer research, he's cutting Medicaid. And by the way, a big important aspect of Medicaid, if you want to talk about a powerful constituency, it's old people, right? I mean, they, they vote, they two.

[Emma Vigland]

Thirds in nursing homes are on Medicaid.

[Heather Parton]

On Medicaid because nursing homes are, you know, insanely expensive and most people can't afford it. So they spend down everything they have, sell their stuff and do whatever and then Medicaid picks up the tab for the nursing homes. Yeah, go ahead, go after that. Just see how well that goes over. You know, Mom's coming back, she's going to be on the couch and you're going to be, you know, doing her IVs or whatever. I mean, this is, it's an outrageous thing, people and it hits people very close to home. It really does. These are the kinds of things that people understand and I'm, I'm stymied. You know, Mike Johnson knows this. He knows how toxic this is because he's running around.

[Emma Vigland]

It's just that there's a bigger hammer on the other side.

[Heather Parton]

Yes. I mean, this is the thing about it.

[Emma Vigland]

If, if they have constituents on one side and the, like, the the richest.

[Heather Parton]

Man in the world.

[Emma Vigland]

Richest. Like the. Literally an infinite amount of money. Money Elon Musk could spend the functional equivalent of me buying a new dishwasher, and it would completely, radically change the amount of money spent in congressional races. I just want to say one thing, too, about Medicaid. I just want to say this about Medicaid. When they talk about work requirements for Medicaid in 2023, there was a Republican bill that got scored, which is, you know, where they were. The Congressional Budget Office looks into, analyzing what would work requirements look like on Medicaid. It cut. If you added work requirements, it would bump 1.5 million Medicaid beneficiaries off of Medicaid, and it would save only $109 billion over 10 years. They want to cut 880 billion from Medicaid. So work requirements, as horrible as they are, would only get them one eighth of the way to where they want to get these cuts. And also, to be clear, it's insane. The states would pick up a bunch of that funding. Some of them, the blue states would, the red states wouldn't. So the amount of people who would be thrown off of Medicare at $880 million is just. We can't even imagine it. And so let's just. We're going to hold you long if you got time, because I want to get to what's going on with Zelensky and, and Trump.

[Heather Parton]

But first I just heard, yeah, apparently.

[Sam Seder]

They got into a screaming match.

[Emma Vigland]

Before we get to that, let's. I just want to talk about the responses and compare and contrast, two responses that we're seeing to this moment. Because, again, like, you and I have been following politics for 20 years, and we have seen a very weak Democratic Party responding in the wake of 9 11. There was a lot of, like, temerity and this and that and in, in this contrast in comparison, I think shows that it's a question of competence. Right? Like, like. And so I want to play, I guess let's play Hakeem Jeffries first and we should say James Carvel. Speaking of overpaid consultants, James Carvel wrote an op ed the other day going like, democrats don't have to do anything. Just sit back, wait 30 days, and Donald Trump to understand this dynamic. The budget resolution was the big tell for me because I don't think if I, you know, if j. If I held a gun to James Carvell's head, you go, there's no way that gonna pass. That ain't gonna pass. It ain't not gonna cut Medicaid by 800 because I don't think, I don't think, I think this is a failure of competence. Here is Hakeem Jeffries. This is the leader of the Democrats in the House who started off Trump's term 30 days ago by saying, presidents come and go, but the Lord is always going to be on the throne.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

And then it's like just sort of, you know, maybe ease off that a little bit over the. But, but gone on to say, like the left and the, the extreme left and the extreme right hate me. Right. Like just who.

[Sam Seder]

And just strengthening the aca. Like there's no vision. And what is just fascinating about this exchange, it was a few days ago, but Maddow, who is as establishment Democrat as it gets, is functionally like being like, can you do something? Ask.

[Emma Vigland]

That's.

[Sam Seder]

This is the premise of this question. And how, how he reacts is so telling and infuriating.

[Heather Parton]

That you are making against Republican policies here is one that I hear and is cogent and that plays to great or lesser extent, I think, all across this country. The other thing that Americans are stressed out about, though, right now is that policy doesn't feel like it's the main conversation right now. It feels like we are in the middle of a ketamine fueled, middle of the night autocratic power grab that is rendering Congress irrelevant, that's rendering policy irrelevant, and that's rendering the rule of law, law an afterthought, if not a joke to those who are planning on staying in power indefinitely without benefit of further elections. I mean, it is not about, I mean, it is about a bad budget. That's one of the things you have to contend with. But the fight here feels like it's on a different scale than the kinds of legislative point, counterpoint stuff that I think Democrats and Republicans are used to fighting over. And I think what America are sort of clamoring for is to hear from you personally, as the senior Democrat in Washington, in the House, where the margins are so narrow, to hear from you that you understand the scale of the threat and you have ideas about how to interrupt what feels like something that we have not experienced since the Civil War in terms of the threat to our republic. Well, it's certainly the case that we understand the scale of threat. That can't be doubted. The cbc, which I'm a part of.

[Emma Vigland]

Definitively understands the scale of the threat.

[Heather Parton]

Our communities have been under siege, as you pointed out, since before the Civil War. I'm a direct descendant of those very communities. So we understand the struggle, the history, the strength of people like John Lewis, which we're going to channel.

[Emma Vigland]

That's my experience.

[Sam Seder]

Just pause it really quickly. I just want people to note that he felt cornered by that question. Didn't expect to get called out by Rachel Maddow about him not doing anything. Even though a majority of Democratic voters in polling, CNN, 73% say they're dissatisfied with congressional Democrats, 67% from data for Progress say the same. He didn't expect that question. So, you know, she mentions the Civil War and you know what he does within the span of 20 seconds, he basically tries to imply that it was a racist question. He invokes the Congressional Black Caucus. He says he's a descendant of the Civil War. And then John Lewis, you really are gonna try that. You're gonna try that right now when she's asking you to do something when the Republicans have the slimmest margin, historically slim margins, and you're gonna act like, wow, how could you put this on me? It's almost a racist question because she said the Civil War one time. Well, this guy is not meeting this moment. He has no idea what to do because that works with, that works with him, with donors. Right. Because he can just use that as a way to say, I'm not going to change anything or offer anything to the base. But that does not, that's not going to work right now because Democrats, broadly, even folks who would have said I love Nancy Pelosi are going, what the hell is going on right now?

[Emma Vigland]

And Rachel Maddow is literally spoon feeding him this like, you know, this is your opportunity. Say something inspiring and talk how tough you're going to be.

[Heather Parton]

Let me give you a chance.

[Emma Vigland]

I will say this. 73% of Democrats. Well, 73 was in the heart of the Reconstruction era and 1873. And I mean, this is, it's, it really is stunning. And, and, and, and, and I will say, like, it's not just, I mean, Matt, Al's point about like, you can't just go like the budget's bad and this and that. Like, like the Democrats are also, at least in Washington. Not only are they saying, like, we're not going to participate in any of this, like, we're like, and we're done and going out there and you know, I don't know exactly what they should be doing, but it does not seem like they're trying a bunch of different things.

[Heather Parton]

Right?

[Emma Vigland]

That's the thing. It's like, I don't know what would work, but I do Know that I can see that they're doing one thing, going out there and going like. I mean, I feel bad for Hakeem Jeffries because to be attacked by a radical extreme leftist like Rachel Maddow in that way must be very difficult for him. But there's no, they're not trying anything other than just like, just want you to know we're here and, and it's bad to cut Medicaid. Yeah, no, we got that. We got that. Actually, there's no even like positive vision. But just to give a sense that this isn't just a sort of like a blanket. If you're a Democrat, you're doing it wrong. They're not doing anything else. Emma made the point that there's a lot more happening with governors because they actually have to like, they can't afford to do, to just like, we're gonna tread water and see what happens, govern. And they actually have to like, deal with it. This is an immediate problem for them. And here is Tim Walls. Where was it? Where.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, no.

[Sam Seder]

With Molly John Fast podcast.

[Emma Vigland]

And, and look, I, I hear the thing out there is, is that when we get back, which we will, we'll fight. I'll tell you what people are gonna expect is they're not going to expect.

[Heather Parton]

Us to tinkle around the edge with the aca.

[Emma Vigland]

They're going to expect universal health care.

[Sam Seder]

Hell yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

And if there's a lesson here, I always said this. We had a one vote majority in Minnesota when we moved clean energy, we moved reproductive rights, we moved, we moved a whole slew of progressive, very popular, including things around guns and gun safety, very popular things.

[Heather Parton]

We moved it with a one vote majority.

[Emma Vigland]

And people ask, well, what do you call a one vote majority? A majority. Simple as that. These guys have learned that lesson and governors have that ability. I'm in Europe trying to foster what I can on the trade.

[Sam Seder]

There you go.

[Emma Vigland]

The. I wonder if he just came up with that idea that we need to offer something rather than tinkle around the aca or if that's part of the reason why we didn't hear from him during the campaign.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question.

[Emma Vigland]

This was, I mean, I think, like, I don't know your sense of, of, of what we're seeing. I mean, you've mentioned already DC and sort of like, I don't know, Pritzker and Walls. I mean, like Whitmer is out there now, like, you know, some of the politics of some of These people I don't agree with, but I'm just talking about, like, doing, like, a response.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, I think. Well, you know, we talked about the legal response, and that's super important, that maybe the only institutional roadblock that exists, even to slow down this wrecking ball that's, you know, going through the federal government. I heard, you know, I've heard some things that sort of interest me. It's like one of the things. I guess it was Dan Pfeiffer, the Obama, you know, the crooked media, Obama guy, message guy, who had a suggestion that I thought was kind of intriguing, that, you know, as if we all agree, and I think we do, that attention is the coin of the realm at the moment, that everybody's just, you know, clamoring to, you know, just be able to get enough attention to get to say something that people will listen to. It's very difficult, and some people are better at it than others. But his. In that respect, his. His advice was for all the people who were, you know, talking about running for president, and the reason he picked that or thinking about running for president, the reason he picked that is because that's something that the press is interested in. That's something that people are, ooh, you know, he's running. They loved the Pritzker thing the other day, and they let me know, so, okay, let's accept the sort of shallow world that we live in and do that. And other sort of famous people, I think, to famous political people, too, I think, like aoc, I think she's one who can gain attention. There are others that they go to red. Red districts that all of those people, Gavin Newsom, Pritzker, Whitmer, you know, all of these people who want to run for president go to red districts around the country, go to Arizona, go to Georgia, go to. Go to places where they really, you know, not just swing districts either. Go to red places, actual deep red places, South Carolina, maybe whole town halls, and take the beating that they're going to get from Republicans on it. In other words, take the risk of getting it, because that is how you get attention. Test themselves against Republicans in public, on camera, get those things to go viral. Get people to see what that's about, see them, hear the argument and see it. And I thought, you know, I don't know what good that will do in terms of changing the dynamic. You know, Elon Musk doesn't give a damn about any of that, but it is a way of kind of showing Democrats that these people, that there's some Democrats out there who are willing to take the fight to the other side and it will be good for them as far as getting a profile. And it can, you know, it's a way of getting attention in this kind of this cacophony of, you know, of noise that we've got going on here right now. And I thought, okay, that's a creative thing. I don't know, maybe they'll, you know.

[Emma Vigland]

Who'S doing that right now?

[Sam Seder]

Bernie.

[Emma Vigland]

You know who's doing that, right?

[Heather Parton]

Bernie. Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

And Bernie's out there doing that in his oligarchy tour. I don't think he's planning to run for president again.

[Heather Parton]

But he can get attention. But he can get attention to Bernie. He can get, he'll get local news, should join him.

[Sam Seder]

Walls should join him at the hip if, if he's interested in universal health care and wants to run and in 2028, go along with Bernie and be like, I'm the guy that's kind of looks like him 20 years younger. That's going to take up.

[Heather Parton]

I'm Bernie, except I'm. Yeah, I'm young, from the Midwest. He could do that. Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

And here's the most important thing about that, is that, like, none of us here can say that's going to be helpful or not, but it's an attempt. Like, like it's an attempt. And what, what it will show what you're doing when you go and you do that, particularly in specific districts. You're basically doing a stress test.

[Heather Parton]

Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

You're seeing, like, what will cause a Republican who is worried about this massive, really unprecedented threat of a primary with unlimited amounts of money on one side and then like, constituents being mad on the other side, like, what issue is going to break them? What issue is going to cause them to go out and scramble around and put out press releases and pretend like, you know, go visit a community health center and say like, I'm, I'm standing for this, or I think, you know, Musk should slow down whatever it is. Like the, this needs to be probed in that way. But. All right, I want to get to this. You wrote a piece, I guess it was just two days ago, about Trump's. To the extent that we can call it a foreign policy. I mean, it is a shift. Without a doubt, it is a shift. It's sort of like an old school imperialism, it seems to me. But talk about what you see and then we'll get into this. What's going on with Zelenskyy?

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen the details with Zelenskyy, because we've been on this is when. While we've been talking that this happened. I only know that. That it happened. So I can't really speak to that. But, yeah, I mean, I've been following this pretty closely, and I guess I don't know why I feel so. So engaged in this particular thing, but it has to do with the. The end of the post World War II world order. And, you know, I think there was is a good case to be made that it's overdue for us to talk about the big American security guarantee. It's very expensive, it's probably not necessary. A lot of things have changed. But. And so when Trump came in the first time and he said, you know, the Europeans need to pick up more of the tab, he's an ignoramus, and he had no idea what he was talking about, but he wasn't wrong on the merits of that. The Europeans have the money to spend more money for their own defense, to contribute more to that. And the U.S. has had the right to kind of pull back after 80 years and say, okay, look, we guaranteed the peace for this whole time, but everybody else needs to step up a little bit here. However, something happened a couple years ago, and showing that 80 years wasn't really enough for things to completely change because Russia invaded Ukraine and showed what could happen Europe. And one of the big things that said to me that this was a very serious issue was when Finland and Sweden both, after, you know, pretty 80 years, said, Whoa, I want in to NATO, because they had never done that before. They had always kept a neutral stance on NATO. After that, they were allies, of course, but they weren't members of NATO. They wanted in, and that's because they saw a very real threat. And for them, 80 years isn't that long. You know, they've got long memories in Europe because, you know, obviously two really big conflagrations in the course of just a couple of decades happened to them, and they are very, very much aware and that it would, were that to happen, something like that to happen, the destabilization of the entire world would be overwhelming. So at that point, you know, you kind of go, all right, so the world order needs to be reevaluated. We need to rethink some of that. By the same token, NATO has got to stand. It's got to be something that exists because Europe, we can't allow this to happen. And here it is happening, and Donald Trump is just. He's the worst possible president to be in charge at this time. You know, I mean, I don't have a huge amount of regard for Joe Biden, Biden's foreign policy. Obviously what he did in the Middle east was horrifying. In Israel and Gaza and Ukraine, I think he did better. But I think still it was kind of like let's just pretend like the world is what it was and we're not going to try and be creative in any way. Having said that, it's the end, it's the end of the world order abruptly brought to an end by Donald Trump and the way that he has decided to handle, handle the Ukraine issue. We will never know why he is so attached, bonded to Vladimir Putin, but he is, he just said it the other day, he said it on camera that, well, we, you know, we, like me, we went through the Russia hoax together. So I trust him.

[Sam Seder]

He apparently just said it right now.

[Heather Parton]

That they went through it together.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, they just said Bradley has it. It's, there's two clips here. If we, we, we could just, I mean, this is blowing. I would really like to hear what.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah, let's, let's, let's play this. I just want to say, just to be clear though, in terms of like, this is actually like, I think the second era of the post Cold War. Right. Like the first one was the Neo Con. We are going to be a hyper power.

[Heather Parton]

Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

And now we're going back to, this is more mafia style, which is we're going to divide up the country, the world and you're going to have your sphere of influence and we're going to have our sphere of influence and we're going to get this and you're going to get that. And as long as I get my taste, I mean, I think that's what's going on here. I don't think there's some grand notion of like this is how we're going to sustain peace in the future.

[Heather Parton]

It's not about minerals. Minerals. It's not about anything.

[Emma Vigland]

Like, no, the mineral thing with Zelensky. Let's, before we get into these clips, I just want to be clear with, with just like an hour's worth of reading, you start to realize the whole rare mineral thing is just a cover complete. It is a way for Trump to go back to the MAGA base or whatever, you know, whoever this is that supposedly wants us out of Ukraine and say like, because we're spending money, like we're getting, we're getting stuff back. The rare mineral thing, it turns out these minerals aren't so rare anymore. A and B, they're not so valuable. And this is just sort of like, you know, this is.

[Sam Seder]

Well, it's for the tech guys, though. I mean, like, that.

[Emma Vigland]

No, like, even there, like the, the minerals they have, there's more in Nevada of lithium than there is in. In.

[Sam Seder]

In Ukraine. Okay.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah. I mean, so the. That is more of like a, for domestic consumption. Okay.

[Heather Parton]

And.

[Emma Vigland]

And maybe what these clips are as well. I mean.

[Heather Parton]

Well, I think. I think he. I think he also wanted to have. He. He wants to get the Nobel Peace Prize, and this was one way that he thought that he could, you know, engineer that. That he's going to win. I mean, he's not. If he does, everyone should give back their Nobel Peace Prize if Donald Trump ever wins it. But, I mean, kiss it.

[Sam Seder]

So.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah, well, you know.

[Emma Vigland]

Yeah, it would track. All right, so what set up these clips, Emma?

[Sam Seder]

I mean, I'm. It's breaking news. Zelensky and, And Trump got into a screaming match in the middle of their meeting after having, like, a cordial handshake to start the day. J.D. vance and Trump just start yelling at.

[Emma Vigland]

Starts this by basically saying, you're not being respectful to us when we're trying.

[Heather Parton]

To save your country.

[Emma Vigland]

And it kind of devolves from there.

[Heather Parton]

And I hate that guy.

[Emma Vigland]

Oh, he's made an appearance now, and you're not showing the proper respect.

[Heather Parton]

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy.

[Emma Vigland]

That'S going to end the destruction of your country. Yes, but he feels. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's.

[Heather Parton]

Disrespectful for you to come into the.

[Emma Vigland]

Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

[Heather Parton]

Right now, you guys are going around.

[Sam Seder]

And forcing conscripts to the front lines.

[Emma Vigland]

Because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this. Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have? I have been to come once. I have actually. I've actually watched and seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people to propagate. I've actually seen news reports.

[Heather Parton]

I've watched and seen the story. So, yes, I'm an expert.

[Emma Vigland]

And in fact, I have. I have a subscription to, you know, Russian news, and so I get a sense of what's going on over there. Did he not think that he was going to get that response? Good for Zelensky. Go ahead. Seen the stories. And I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour.

[Heather Parton]

Mr. President, are.

[Emma Vigland]

Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military and do you think that it's respected? I will answer. To come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to, trying to prevent the destruction of your country. A lot of.

[Heather Parton]

A lot of questions.

[Emma Vigland]

Let's start from the beginning. Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody.

[Heather Parton]

Has problems, even you.

[Emma Vigland]

But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless. You don't know that. God bless. God bless. You will not have war. Don't tell us what, what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. I'm not telling you because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You will feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very, very beginning of the war. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now with us. You start having cards right now. You don't. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War iii. You're gambling with World War iii. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, I'm willing, far more than a lot of people said they should have. You said thank you once, a lot of times.

[Heather Parton]

You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.

[Emma Vigland]

Offer some words of appreciation for the.

[Heather Parton]

United States of America and the president.

[Emma Vigland]

Who'S trying to save your country. Can I just make one statement on the conscription thing that Vance said? It's actually under US pressure that conscription and the draft age is being lowered. Waltz came in immediately saying, actually it should lower down to 18. So a little bit too forked tongue coming out of there.

[Sam Seder]

Trump's also claiming that a million people, a million Russians have been killed, which is just not true. I mean, they're saying all these things that are, that are completely untrue. But did you see Trump is, is trying to act like he's. He's on the Apprentice right there. That's really what the number. The thing that I just clicked into seeing those old episodes of him having a TV moment and firing somebody.

[Emma Vigland]

Yep. Yep.

[Sam Seder]

And frankly, this Plot probably plays for him, but it also really plays for Zelensky, domestically for him. This is a good moment, I think.

[Emma Vigland]

Within the context of Ukraine.

[Sam Seder]

Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

I mean, I think a very positive.

[Sam Seder]

Viral moment of him showing, standing up to Donald Trump and getting into it with him and J.D. vance. And then this was the part where I guess he repeats that same thing, right? About how him and Putin bonded over Russiagate.

[Emma Vigland]

A reporter asks, what if Russia breaks this proposed ceasefire? And he says, you know, what if anything can happen? What if a bomb drops on your head or something like that, then goes into like, Putin went through a lot with me. Like, he. Maybe he's broken deals with other people, but he wouldn't break it with me because we've been through so much together with Russiagate.

[Heather Parton]

All right, that's insane. She's asking, what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?

[Emma Vigland]

What if they. What if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now? Okay, what if they broke it? I don't know. They broke it with Biden because Biden didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. You ever hear of that deal? That was a phony. That was a phony. Hunter Biden, Joe Biden.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, my God.

[Emma Vigland]

Hillary Clinton, Shifty Adam Schiff. It was a Democrat scam, and he had to go through that. And he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war. He went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with it for a second. I mean, what is so fascinating is like, somebody has obviously told Trump, like, you don't want to sound whiny. So, like, he's out there saying, like, well, look what you put Putin through. He was so upset about shift. He was so mad at Shifty Shifter. And I mean, this is. It really is amazing. It's like watching that episode of the Sopranos when they were, you know, Rol, the. The hardware store guy. Right. All right, go back.

[Sam Seder]

Well, it's also like the Sopranos when Junior is slowly losing his mind, honestly, because this. Because he sounds like Fox News grandpa. What is he talking about? I mean, it's just. I mean, it's all personal grievance, but it's.

[Emma Vigland]

You put through so much, so much.

[Sam Seder]

Since he lost in 2020. He. He @ least like with when. When the Kushner's were in his. His cabinet the first time. Some connection to, like, a liberal, you know, like, shared culture. I don't know. But he's been completely in one America news mode for over four years, and he's aging. He's losing his mind. Anyway, keep going, I guess. Right?

[Emma Vigland]

He had to go through that, and he did go through it. We didn't end up in a war, and he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff. He had nothing to do with. It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter Biden's bedroom. It was disgusting. And then they said, oh, oh, the laptop from hell was made by Russia. The 51 agents. The whole thing was a scam. And he had to put up with that. He was being accused of all that stuff. All I can say is this. He might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden.

[Heather Parton]

He did.

[Emma Vigland]

Maybe.

[Heather Parton]

Maybe he did.

[Emma Vigland]

I don't know what happened, but he didn't break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don't know if he can make a deal. The problem is I've empowered you to be a tough guy, and I don't think you'd be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very brave. But you're either going to make a deal or. Or we're out. And if we're out, you'll fight it out. I don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll fight it out. But you don't have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. But you're not acting at all thankful. And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest. That's not a nice thing. All right, I think we've seen enough. What do you think? This is going to be great television. I will say.

[Sam Seder]

Oh, my God.

[Heather Parton]

Wow. That's all that matters.

[Sam Seder]

That's all that matters.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Seder]

Can you pull up just really quickly, the image of the ambassador? This is the ambassador to Ukraine. Someone took a photo of her. Reaction. Oksana Markova, the Ukrainian. Oh. The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States. This is what she was looking like in the crowd or in the scrum? Yeah.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, my God. Can we talk for a moment about J.D. vance here? Sure. First of all, I don't. Was this some kind of. Was this supposed. Was this a setup? I mean, was he sent there? Was he sitting there with the purpose of attacking Zelensky for not being thankful enough? Of course, dear leader, he was sent there to do that.

[Emma Vigland]

That I think 100%. 100%. Because Trump doesn't want to be the first one to bring it up because it sounds whiny. So you have your, your second say. Like you're not. You're paying homage to the king.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah. I mean, you've got to do. And hey, you know, Keir Starmer yesterday, boy, did he ever know how to do it. He came in with a letter from King of England, from King Charles, inviting him to a state, you know, function. And you're the first one. Whatever. I mean, the groveling was so extreme that I almost literally threw up. I think they were really wanting Zelensky to come in here and really grovel. And J.D. vance was there to police that and to say, you need to. You need to thank him. And of course, you know, Zelensky, I totally, you know, I admire him more than ever now for having the chutzpah to actually fight back. He could have sat back and gone, well, I am very thankful. Of course. I'm very thankful. I'm thankful for you. I'm thankful for everyone. I'm thankful for Mr. Trump. He's the greatest. Whatever. He could have done that and he didn't. And good for him. But that, that whole setup, I think, Emma, you are absolutely right. This is a made for TV moment. That's why they did it. That is what they did. They wanted to show that. And what do you guys think is this? I mean, Emma, you said you thought it was going to play here in the United States.

[Sam Seder]

Well, for his base, I mean, they just like. But, but, but it goes back to what you were saying, Heather, about how do we break through the noise. And frankly, we know that the algorithms like argumentative content. It's a big part of why Trump is in everybody's feeds. And the Democrats should engage on that front. And it make. It's just the performance of toughness that I think his base will like. But it is a good reminder for everybody who's sane, the other two thirds of the country that he's a total lunatic. It's an embarrassment.

[Emma Vigland]

Let's be clear, by all accounts, this deal was going to be signed. Right?

[Heather Parton]

I mean, it was already done. Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

Right. So. So understand, this is, I think, an extension of the same strategy as pretending like they. We got some type of big win with the mineral rights.

[Sam Seder]

Right.

[Emma Vigland]

Okay. It is a way to communicate to his base, even though we're going to continue to provide weaponry and funds to Ukraine, it is a way to say, like, you saw me, it was a complete smackdown. Like this. This is. This is for a very specific domestic audience, his base, to make it feel like promise kept. Guys. Yes. Like, I'm the big dog. I alpha this guy. I Alpha do my toy. I took their resources and I took his pride. And I'm quite convinced this was like Vance was sent in there specifically to do this. Say your thank you. Say thank you to him. Say thank you to him. And I think, like, they map this out probably more than just about anything they've ever done, I would say. I mean, that's my.

[Heather Parton]

Vance has never been in one of these meetings before. He has. No. He's. And he's not a Ukraine expert. He has no real reason to be there.

[Emma Vigland]

He wasn't in politics until two years ago. The guy doesn't know. Everything he learned from. About Ukraine was from, like, I don't.

[Heather Parton]

Know, he's read some stories. He read the story, Sam. So he knows all about it. He read the story. He's seen them. Yeah. So he knows. Well, frankly, I mean, I think, you know, the stuff that, of. Of him smacking down Zelensky, you know, that'll play with the bass and I'm sure they'll like the whole thing. But what do we think about this digression into Putin and Russia and how they bonded over the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax? And it all started in Hunter Biden's bedroom. What was going on with that? Because that sounded completely.

[Sam Seder]

That's right.

[Heather Parton]

Bonkers. That was. Out to lunch. Donald Trump down the, you know, the truth social rabbit meme hole. I don't know. I mean, that's going to go viral, too. And I have.

[Sam Seder]

That's where he lost it. Right. Like Vance had Van. Exactly. Vance set him up to do what Sam is saying and what we're all saying, but Trump doesn't have the discipline, so he just did his Fox News grandpa thing. That is completely indecipherable about the laptop from the laptop from hell, which makes me laugh every single time I hear it.

[Emma Vigland]

Probably a Dell.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I guess I'll be very interested to see what the reaction is. I mean, it is going to go viral and they'll be playing it, and I'm sure certain people will like it and certain people won't. But if you're thinking about the substance of it, of what's really happening with Ukraine, what he said to Zelensky there in his diatribe was, you do this deal or you're going to be on your own. And you're not going to do. You have no cards to play and you're not going to like it and blah, blah, blah. Well, he is doing the deal. He already agreed to do the deal, and I'm sure he still will. What does that mean? Does that mean that Trump is still going to provide military aid to Ukraine because he does the deal? Because he dominated him and forced him to sign the deal now that he didn't want to sign. And now he said, well, okay, you know, we're getting paid back back for this and we're gonna, we're gonna get paid, so we'll send military aid. I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody knows what that, what the answer there is. I mean, is it all performative, the whole thing? Is that what this is all about? Him just. Trump gets to pound his chest like a big silverback. An aging silverback gorilla. A crazed aging silverback gorilla. And, but really and truly, nothing's actually changed. I, I don't know.

[Emma Vigland]

I think we're gonna have to watch and see. I mean, certainly I will say this. What is quite clear is that Europe is going to organize in a different way.

[Heather Parton]

They are. That's done.

[Emma Vigland]

And, you know, even the first time around when we were talking about this, I mean, all of our foreign policy conversations went something like, if you were an ally and you look at this country and they go from Obama to Trump, even if Trump loses, there's no guarantee. And that you can rely on the role that the United States has been played. Now, to be clear, I think it, you know, there's been a lot of bad things that we have done, not the least of which are, you know, at least most recently, arm Israel in, in the genocide, but invade Iraq. I mean, obviously, like, the show probably wouldn't exist if it wasn't based upon things that America have done that have been atrocious and, and crimes. They have effectively eliminated the positive things that we do.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

So that, you know, like sort of that old, old chestnut. Don't you think that the, the on net, what the United States is doing like that. No, that, that formulation.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

Which you and I grew up with whenever there was a critique of America. On balance, though, on net, you know, World War II and, you know, I'm talking about the propaganda. That propaganda now seems off the table. Like now it's just, we're just another country that is increasingly authoritarian. And we're going to get our spoils. They're going to get their spoils. And that's the dynamic that's going on. And I think Europe is waking up to that notion and going like, hey, wait a second, we're sort of in the middle. And this is.

[Heather Parton]

There are others that are in the middle, too. Keep in mind that one of the main reasons for the post World War II order and the American security guarantee was that we live in a nuclear age. And a very serious part of our world order, as screwed up as it was with Vietnam and more recently Iraq and, you know, all the proxy wars and everything else that the US did that was awful. The balance part of it, and an important one was to keep the possibility of a nuclear arms race as scientific capability came online all over the world from actually, you know, exploding. And I think we're going to see that now. You've got countries like Germany talking about nuclear arms now. They're talking about it now. That was one thing nobody wanted. And by the way, think about this a little bit. Europe's our friend. They're our allies who came in second in the last, last German election. Not good guys. They were not our friends. And those. And so Germany arms up, decides to militarize again, gets nuclear weapons. And how about if the AfD takes over in Germany? Good news for us. No, I mean, this is not something we want to see happen. We don't want to see it happen in Japan because over there you've got China on the, on the move. You've got all kinds of dangers that are coming from the end of the post Cold War era without anything to replace it. I mean, except what you're talking about, Sam, this, this kind of protection racket that we're now doing. And that protection racket is not going to work because there's no, you, you can't, you can't run, you know, you can't run a security guarantee based upon whether somebody, you know, based upon the vig. Right. It's just not going to work. So this is, this is going to be a very dangerous transition for us and we're going to see some real interesting things.

[Emma Vigland]

And as we were talking about earlier, in terms of, like, the domestic agenda, where you have the Tech Bros. And the Heritage foundation folks and the Trumpistas, you know, all their agendas were aligned. It really doesn't matter what their incentive structure is. It's. Their agendas are aligned in terms of, like, foreign relations. Elon Musk, I mean, people can argue as to whether or not we should be the reserve currency of the world, but Elon Musk doesn't care. Elon Musk doesn't care. I mean, these tech bros, they are looking for a. You know, they're not married to the idea of American being, you know, sort of like having some type of economic hegemony in any way. They're not married to the idea of a stable, international sort of like, economic system. They're not. In fact, they're all. There's a lot of money for them to be made to be their own sort of feudal. I mean, these are feudal. Feudal tech lords. And so their agenda there. And Donald Trump, this guy is like, what's going to put money in my pocket? I don't care. Like there. The. The implications of this stuff down the road. You know, people talk about, like, what happens if we're not the petro dollar and what happens if we're not the reserve. The. The. The reserve currency down the road. Well, this is. If you wanted to undermine that dynamic, this is pretty much how you go about doing it, it seems to me, and I agree.

[Heather Parton]

Agree.

[Emma Vigland]

We'll see. All right. We gotta take a. Well, we gotta say goodbye. We held you for 30 minutes. Over. Sorry.

[Heather Parton]

Okay. What a day, huh? Well, every day is what a day. What's the difference? Yeah. Okay.

[Emma Vigland]

Six hours. Six hours long. We like Twitch streaming now?

[Heather Parton]

Could be. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't even really, you know, gotten into it in an hour and a half. I mean, but, you know, so.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

Anyways, Heather, always a pleasure.

[Heather Parton]

I guess.

[Emma Vigland]

I don't know.

[Sam Seder]

Always a pleasure.

[Emma Vigland]

Let me put it this way. I feel like we didn't exacerbate how depressing this was. We started in depressing. We're exiting at the same. I feel like depressing on the depressing meter.

[Heather Parton]

Yes. Yes. In fact, if that's what passes for optimism and cheerfulness these days, I'm not any more depressed now than I was when we started. So, you know, this is good. Happy Friday. Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

Happy Friday. Yes.

[Heather Parton]

Oh, my God.

[Emma Vigland]

Of course. Link to your pieces in Salon and the Uber blog Hullabaloo. See you soon.

[Heather Parton]

Thanks, Heather. Have a good week.

[Sam Seder]

You too.

[Emma Vigland]

Just one note on the Zelensky thing. Andrea Pagliarini had a good tweet, said, I don't know why these things still surprise what they do. This is a criticism.

[Heather Parton]

This is a.

[Emma Vigland]

On the sort of Zelensky thing and the way Trump advanced. Want to, you know, I guess, diminish him. Bolsonaro criticized Lula for treating Trump as if he were an equal quote. Bolsonaro, when I was president, I knew my place when speaking with him. So there's your you know, unipolar world for you.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, right. It's like he, he, Trump wants to, like he's a transactional politician. Right. We know this. But the transactions that he's engaging in when it comes to stuff that is outside of like getting RFK on Health and Human Services Secretary so he can get his voters when it's actually about foreign policy, he's not extracting anything. Like he's, he's transactional. But there's nothing except like, like, like a public relations victory is what he wants out of it.

[Emma Vigland]

What they're doing with, we talked about this. We may not be able to see the transaction too well with Van Jackson. I mean, the moves with the budget, with the Pentagon is just moving money from overseas to like the border and stuff like that.

[Sam Seder]

It's, and it seems like they want to like they say that cutting it by 8% is the directive, but it's, when you look at the fine print, they're just moving it around, most likely unmanned.

[Emma Vigland]

And the resolution they just passed added 10 billion annually to the defense budget. And the Senate, the Republicans in the Senate said like that's not enough. So I mean. Oh, right, they could. Let's head into the fun half as it were. And I mean, one of the things, you know, I did Piers Morgan yesterday. I didn't read my emails enough so I didn't know who I was going to be on with. And it was Benny Johnson, who I know that we have played some videos of him and I guess, I don't know, Galloway was there. I didn't interact with Galloway at all. It was just so strange. It was like we were at a tennis match and watching them. It was, was the whole thing was just a sort of. What was the name of the woman she was from Gillian Michaels. She was, she was a trainer on the Biggest Loser. Right. She's a turf stable mate with. She told me that the, you know, oh, they're not feeding kids thing, you got to pull that out. And like it's true. Like what? Like, you know, you want to. If you want to collapse USAID because you don't want to fund Sesame street in Iraq. But I mean, mean, it also feeds people but gives people HIV medication.

[Heather Parton]

I mean, what a.

[Emma Vigland]

The other thing I realize, I mean Betty Johnson doesn't seem to know anything about anything. Like I found it almost like just, it was, I, I was, it was boring because it was just really him doing shtick. The one thing is like when we were talking about the Empowerment Control act, they weren't talking about that. But I brought it up and you know, Train v. NYC and all of the, you know, the idea that Congress appropriates money. He went on this talking point about Section 2 of the Constitution, you know, saying the President had ultimate authority and etc. Etc. And it was the only time that he actually said anything of substance. It was completely, you know, just obviously something that they. They the some talking point that he got. But I realized like, they don't have to engage at all anymore. They just like there is enough of a mechanism for them to get to their own audience that they can just simply lie. And you know, the idea that even, I mean, yes, USAID is being completely destroyed and there's a lot of great stuff that is being. Being done that is getting destroyed. There's a lot of stuff, you know, the, that Jillian had said about like, you know, corporations getting all these contracts. Without a doubt. Everything else, everything else that is being done is a complete empowerment of all these same corporations. They don't believe a single word in which they're talking about. It is at any given moment. It's just to simply justify these moves. And it really just struck me like, you know, Trump doesn't care about the broader implications. He is just making sure that he has provided for his domestic hunger. To see him hand it to Ukraine, that's it. Mission accomplished. He did what he needed to do. There's no other audience for him. I should just say. White House correspondent for Semaphore Shelby Talcott reporting that she's being told the minerals deal was not signed. Oh, they canceled their press conference too. They cut, they cut the whole thing short. And Trump made. Trump made this statement on true social.

[Heather Parton]

If you.

[Emma Vigland]

Matt, if you wanted to put this.

[Heather Parton]

Up, if you guys can read it.

[Emma Vigland]

This was sort of Trump's line after the meeting ended. We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire. This have had this on Lex Friedman show. It's amazing what comes up through a motion. And I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. Okay, I don't want advantage. I want peace. He disrespect the United States in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for capital peace.

[Heather Parton]

Yeah.

[Sam Seder]

It's just I love his what, what.

[Emma Vigland]

He chooses to very meaningful meeting but is too emotional on their side of things. He didn't say thank you. And so that's you know, the libs made me do it. By emotional, I mean, I got upset at his manners.

[Sam Seder]

And obviously the laptop from hell. Obviously. And what they did to me and Pooty.

[Emma Vigland]

Pooty. That involved in the Russiagate thing, I guess the hot top. I don't know. Right.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah. What is.

[Emma Vigland]

I felt like he was sort of a late. Like a season three addition to that plotline.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, exactly.

[Emma Vigland]

He's.

[Heather Parton]

He's.

[Emma Vigland]

When he mentions the 51 national security officials, he's obsessed with, like, Clapper and John Brennan, like, writing a letter saying that the Biden Hunter Biden laptop story being sent to the New York Post was like Russian intelligence. And that apparently that was. He always says that that was not. That was debunked.

[Heather Parton]

So he. He.

[Emma Vigland]

He brings up the 51 national security officials constantly because they sent that letter.

[Sam Seder]

The ones who were out of office.

[Emma Vigland]

Had no power like Clapper and Brennan.

[Sam Seder]

And had an opinion that probably wasn't even true.

[Emma Vigland]

Right.

[Sam Seder]

Okay.

[Emma Vigland]

I wonder if. I wonder if this wasn't the plan all along. Crash the deal.

[Sam Seder]

Sure.

[Emma Vigland]

Just put on a show.

[Sam Seder]

They just voted against the condemnation of Russia at the United nations, which, you know, it was. They joined. This is what I talked about yesterday with Trita calling it the axis of aggressors. Russia, Israel, the United States joining. I mean, North Korea, who's providing Russia with arms right now. But.

[Emma Vigland]

And I would say it'd be nice if a president would speak that way to Benjamin Netanyahu.

[Sam Seder]

I would be. You know, give Trump so much credit.

[Emma Vigland]

We enabled your genocide and you never get to be a tough guy. We did that. You. You wouldn't have been able to do any ethnic cleansing. You wouldn't even be ethnic arranging if we hadn't given you the money. I'll start holding my breath on that. Folks, going to take a quick break. Head into the. We do it. Yeah, we should. I got to go to the bathroom. We go. Head into the fun half. Just a reminder, it's your support that makes this show possible. You can become a member. Join the MajorityReport.com when you do, you not only get the fun half or the free half. Free of commercials, but you get the fun half also. Check out the AM Quickie. What is wrong with you? Do you really think that you can handle all this news without it being broken down in a very sort of like, tiny bullet points?

[Sam Seder]

Yes.

[Emma Vigland]

These guys are doing a great job over there. Corey and Jacob, doing an amazing job with the AM Quickie. It is free three times a week.

[Sam Seder]

And if you can't your, you know, Times membership over their coverage of something like trans issues or Gaza. And I know I have a family member that just canceled her Washington Post subscription over that Jeff Bezos thing. I don't know if I would do that because it's like I love, you know, Jeff Stein, some other reporters there. But it's also a way to like get your news and you don't have to subscribe to a bunch of different publications even if you have, you know, ethical problems with them or whatever.

[Emma Vigland]

So am Quikie.com also don't forget just coffee co op fair trade coffee and hot chocolate coupon code majority get 10% off ESPN hiatus. Yes, that's all right. Still that, that Nick's beginning of the week.

[Sam Seder]

Yeah, no, it's really. It was the Eagles winning the super bowl is what send me, you know, reeling. I have to regroup now with Saquon Barkley, you know, having a historic season for them.

[Emma Vigland]

So Matt left reckoning. Left reckoning. We had Elise Joshi, who was leader of Gen Z for Change, talking about her experience trying to push the Democrats left on climate issues and ultimately protesting Karine Jean Pierre's speech a couple of years ago. Also Van Jackson talking about a lot of this stuff, how Trump's supposed cuts to the Pentagon are mainly about removing black people and the oversight capacity of the Pentagon and then moving the rest of the money over to like the border boondoggle or tech companies for drone assassination program. So check that out. Van Jackson, really smart guy. Patreon.com left record. All right, quick break. Fun half. You are in for it. All right folks, 646-257-3920 see you in the fun house. Are you ready?

[Heather Parton]

Oh yeah.

[Emma Vigland]

Who sent us this?

[Heather Parton]

Alpha males are back, back, back, back.

[Emma Vigland]

Back Boy is back and the alpha males are back, back Just as delicious as you could imagine the alpha males.

[Heather Parton]

Are back, back, back, back, back boy.

[Emma Vigland]

Back and the alpha males are back, back, back, back Just want to degrade the white man. Alpha males are back, back I take.

[Heather Parton]

All of it to my throne Alpha.

[Emma Vigland]

Males are back, back, back, back Snowflake says what? The alpha males are. You are a madman. And the alpha males are back, back. Oh, no. Sam Cedar. What a wow, what a nightmare. Nightmare. Yeah, or a couple them just put them in rotation.

[Heather Parton]

DJ dinner.

[Emma Vigland]

Well, the problem with those is they're like 45 seconds long, so I don't.

[Heather Parton]

Know if they're enough break. That's nonsense.

[Emma Vigland]

See, white people doing drugs that look worse than normal white people and all white People look disgusting. And the alpha males psych them, them. Snowflake says what? What, what?

[Heather Parton]

What? What? What? What?

[Emma Vigland]

What, what, what, what, what?

[Heather Parton]

Snowflake says what?

[Emma Vigland]

A hell of a lot of bank. Hell of a lot of bank. A hell of a lot of bank.

[Heather Parton]

Okay, I'm making stupid money.

[Emma Vigland]

Hell of a lot of bank. A hell of. All lives matter. Have you tried doing an impression on a college campus? I think that there's no reason why reasonable people across the divide can't all agree with this. Psych. And the alpha males are back, back, back, back, back, back and the Africans.

[Heather Parton]

Are black, black, black, black, black, African.

[Emma Vigland]

And the alpha males are black, black.

[Heather Parton]

Black, black, black and the Africans back, back, back, back when you see Donald.

[Emma Vigland]

Trump out there, doesn't a little part of you think that America deserves to be taken over by jihadists? Keeping it 100.

[Heather Parton]

Can't knock the hustle.

[Emma Vigland]

Come on. Them things I do for the bigger game plan. By the way, it's my birthday. My birthday. Happy birthday to me. J Boy, if I have a thought experiment for you. And the alpha males are back.

[Heather Parton]

Africans are black, black.

[Emma Vigland]

Alpha males are black, black Africans are back, back. Come on, come on, come on.

[Heather Parton]

Someone needs to pay the price of.

[Emma Vigland]

Blast to be around here. I am a total question.