← The Majority Report with Sam Seder
The Majority Report with Sam Seder
2468 - Trump's Terrible Tariffs; Israel Seizes Gaza Land; Tesla Sales Plummet w/ Omar Baddar, Paris Marx
01:31:05
It's an EmMajority Report Thursday! The guests will be political analyst Omar Baddar on Israel's renewed attacks in Gaza, and Paris Marx, host of the podcast "Tech Won't Save Us," about how Elon Musk is running Tesla into the ground. First, Emma runs...
Loading summary
Transcript215 lines
- [00:00]
Emma Vigeland
You are listening to a free version of the Majority Report. Support this show@jointhemajorityreport.com and get an extra hour of content daily. The Majority Report with Sam Cedar. It is Thursday, April 3, 2025. My name is Emma Vigeland and for Sam Cedar and this is the five time award winning Majority Report. We are broadcasting live steps from the industrially ravaged Gowanus Canal in the heartland of America, downtown Brooklyn, usa. On the program today, Omar Badar, Middle east policy analyst, will be with us to discuss Israel's escalating genocide in Gaza and around the Middle east, their war escalation. And later in the show, Paris Marks of the Disconnect newsletter joins us to discuss the tech reasons behind Tesla's cratering sales. Also on the program, Trump's tariffs tumble markets, terrifying traders and tycoons alike. I've tried that alliteration a little bit ran out of Runway, but really it's regular folks who are going to bear the brunt on these regressive tariffs. Four Senate Republicans, Collins, Murkowski, Paul and McConnell helped pass a Democratic led measure to revoke Trump's Canadian tariffs. But without Mike Johnson taking it up in the House, the bill will die. Or I guess the resolution will die. Grassley and Cantwell this morning introduce a bipartisan resolution to reassert Congress's power to review tariffs. You know, the power that Chuck Schumer literally gave away three weeks ago. The Trump administration fires a few Mike Waltz national security underlings as more reporting shows that his team was using at least 20 other signal chats. Laura Loomer was apparently at the White House yesterday meeting with Trump, pushing for this to happen. Israel kills dozens more in Gaza, bombing them in their tents, and formally announces that it is seizing part of Gaza's territory. You need a buffer zone for the buffer zone, for the buffer zone, for the land grab overnight is real. Also bombed deployed forces in Syria and the US Backs them up with our largest troop deployment since prior to October 7th. Viktor Orban withdraws from the ICC so that he can welcome Netanyahu without being forced to arrest him. Trump eliminates the CDC's in vitro fertilization research team. Didn't he just call himself very creepily the fertilization president? And lastly, Eric Adams announces that he will run as an independent in the general election. I don't think this is very good news for Zoran, but we shall see. We keep going. All this and more on today's Majority Report. Welcome to the show everybody. It's an AM Majority Report Thursday Hello Russell. Hello Matt. Hello audience. Gosh, we could not have a more packed show. I interviewed Paris Marks yesterday and I'm excited for you to hear my interview with them about not just why Elon Musk's politics are causing Tesla sales to crater in the first quarter of this year, but why they're getting basically left behind technologically. It was a great discussion. We'll play that later in the show. But. But obviously here's the big news this morning. U.S. stock futures basically fell off a cliff. Trump announced 10% baseline tariff tariffs on imports from every country. It's supposed to take effect this weekend. And then on top of that he implemented even higher tariffs on around 60 countries because of how they're ripping us off. It also seems like these tariffs were imposed based on some dubious mathematical equation. James Surakowski oh sorry Surawecki. Geez again, it's contagious in the office he uncovered this and now it's been back. Like I read a BBC article, this is exactly what seems to have happened. Just figured out where these fake tariff rates come from. They didn't actually calculate tariff rates and non tariff barriers as they said they did. Instead for every country they just took our trade deficit with that country and divided it by the country's exports to us. So we have a $17.9 billion trade deficit with Indonesia. It exports to US at its exports to US are 28 billion. 17.9 divided by 28 equals 64 which Trump claims is the tariff rate Indonesia charges US. What extraordinary nonsense is this? It's why we place tariffs on like countries in the world that have basically little to no population. We seem to have placed tariffs on Israel by accident. So Trump falls into bds.
- [05:52]
Matt Binder
I saw somebody ask different eyes how they would do tariffs and they all responded with this way which some people might be very impressed by that and some people might put their hand over their face and wonder how stupid everything's got right.
- [06:08]
Emma Vigeland
Like it's, it seems like they did use AI. They've been using AI, it looks like to implement these mass layoffs. Yeah, because they just want to destroy and they don't really care about doing the destruction in a way that is tailored or makes sense. They're just trying to do it as quickly as possible and speed run this thing China now faces. Based on the tariffs and the trade relationship prior to this announcement, China has a 54% effective total tariff rate. Nike and Apple stocks fell off a cliff. Obviously they manufacture a lot in China, but also Gap, Dollar Tree, other companies that Import cheaper goods from China. And some industries did get exceptions like they ones that already are subjected to existing duties like aluminum, steel, etc. He excluded some crops covered under the USMCA. But overall this is just an absolute disaster.
- [07:14]
Matt Binder
Oil got exclusions as well.
- [07:17]
Emma Vigeland
Naturally. This is the point the tariffs that we imposed. The United States does not have the capacity or anywhere close to the capacity currently to produce the goods that would that are being affected by these tariffs to produce them domestically.
- [07:36]
Matt Binder
It's not 1898 anymore that would require.
- [07:40]
Emma Vigeland
And again I don't even think this could work. But if you had this vision, this would require years long billions of dollars in investment in domestic manufacturing to make sure that we could produce the goods that we need here and onshore it prior to just broadly implementing these tariffs because then we would be able to have these goods here in the United States. We don't have the ability because of the way our supply lines are set up to create the goods domestically that are supposed to be the cheaper alternative to tariffs. We would need to build factories and all we're doing is just like sending our capital to AI.
- [08:23]
Matt Binder
And who would need to do it? It would be the state. We trusting capitalists to do that. Byd, the Chinese car company that we that is cleaning our clocks, has state subsidies.
- [08:34]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, right. And so the point is, is that like these tariffs are not going to help the United States reindustrialize. The reindustrialization policy would have had to precede any tariffs of this nature for us to have the desired effect that he's describing. It's completely incongruent. And so even then, by the way, like if that were to happen, it would mean that the tariffs wouldn't be generating the revenue that Trump claims they are because the that revenue would be dependent on the demand for the imported goods. And then after all of those years of developing our capacity, why would people want to buy the more expensive goods internationally? So none of this makes sense. Like he fundamentally doesn't understand it. All this does. All it does is raise prices on the lower on for everybody. But because sales tax, sales taxes are already regressive. Right? Like it disproportionately harms people. The lower your income is because it's a flat rate. This is a compounding regressive sales tax, a tax on the poor. But he's doing so unilaterally. And here he is announcing this yesterday at the White House.
- [10:04]
Donald Trump
Good and wealthy, for decades our country has been looted, pillaged, raped and plundered by nations near and far Both friend and foe alike. American steelworkers, auto workers, farmers and skilled craftsmen. We have a lot of them here with us today. They really suffered gravely. They watched in anguish as foreign leaders have stolen our jobs, foreign cheaters have ransacked our factories, and foreign scavengers have torn apart our once beautiful American dream. We had an American dream that you don't hear so much about. You did four years ago, and you are now, but you don't too often, and for many years and decades, even you didn't hear too much about. Our country and its taxpayers have been ripped off for more than 50 years. But it is not going to happen anymore. It's not going to happen. In a few moments, I will sign a historic executive order instituting reciprocal tariffs on countries throughout the world. Reciprocal. That means they do it to us and we do it to them. Very simple. Can't get any simpler than that. This is one of the most important days, in my opinion, in American history. It's our declaration of economic independence. For years, hardworking American citizens were forced to sit on the sidelines as other nations got rich and powerful, much of it at our expense.
- [11:40]
Matt Binder
I'm sorry, I have to cut in there because the key point of this is the deflection.
- [11:45]
Emma Vigeland
Yep.
- [11:46]
Matt Binder
These pointing to other foreign leaders. It is people like him.
- [11:51]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, my God.
- [11:51]
Matt Binder
Elon Musk. How about foreigners, Elon Musk, coming here. If we're. If America is so easy to rob, why did Elon Musk come here? To make a billion dollars.
- [11:59]
Emma Vigeland
Right?
- [12:00]
Matt Binder
The people that lined up behind him. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, all these guys, they're the ones who have sold us all out. They're the ones who have failed us. They're the reason we are not set up for this next century economically. It is all of these guys in these suits and they're saying, look over there.
- [12:19]
Emma Vigeland
It is incredible how there are so such. We don't even need to hear the rest of this garbage. Like playing victim. Playing victim as this wealthy Nepo baby here, Donald Trump, says everyone's been ripping us off. Really? Really?
- [12:37]
Matt Binder
You have.
- [12:38]
Emma Vigeland
You've been. I mean, Elon Musk, the billionaires that are in your cabinet are the ones that are doing what you're accusing the rest of the world of doing. These tariffs are even more expansive than the Smoot Hawley tariffs of the 1930s, which was infamously one of the biggest exacerbating factors of the Great Depression. FDR got us out of that with a reciprocal trade agreements that State Action Investment Right. And then, of course, the major investments in, in protecting people from the worst effects of the Great Depression and job guarantees and things like that. But like the this, since that period, our trade relationships have been built on that kind of fundamental bedrock. And Trump, because of, I don't know, being a lunatic, because of this completely blinkered concept of negotiating power, has decided to blow that all up for no reason, because the rest of the world is not going to take this lying down. The United States is in a way weaker position than when we were at the height of, by the way, our top marginal tax rates, like in the post World War II America, where we were growing at our fastest rate and we had an over.
- [13:59]
Matt Binder
Was destroyed.
- [14:00]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. And we had an over 90% top marginal tax rate. But like even the 60s, the 70s, the pre Reagan tax cut period, we had 70% top marginal tax rate during that period. That's when we were able to generate revenue to disperse it to the rest of the population to improve their quality of life. And instead of raising taxes on the rich, where we could make America wealthy again, as he describes, he decides to do a unilateral tax on the poor after tariffs dramatically raise the cost of basic goods for everybody, acting as this compounding regressive sales tax. And then the Republicans maybe pass their budget that completely guts Medicaid, which covers half of adults in poverty with their health care. 72 million people are covered under Medicaid. And then you have 8 million people, kids around, covered under CHIP, which is the child's version of that health care program. What happens to them? You're raising the cost of living for everybody, and you say it's temporary. What happens to those people when you take their health care away? We are in for such a deeply dark economic period if this is not rescinded. It's difficult to even describe, but here is Richard Wolff. He's responding to a key point here because Sean Fain of the UAW has spoken positively about Trump's tariffs. Although broadly, Fain has criticized some of his tactics on the economy. We're always hesitant here, I think, to be super critical of union leaders because they are politicians in their own right and they have their rank and file to respond to. But Richard Wolff takes that claim on here in this interview with Democracy now this morning. And I think this is the best way to describe what these true effects are going to look like. Last week, we applaud the Trump administration for stepping up to end the free trade disaster that's devastated working class communities for decades. Fain spoke Sunday on CBS's Face the.
- [16:23]
Shawn Fain
Nation, we've seen over 90,000 manufacturing facilities leave the United States. We've seen in the big three alone in the last 20 plus years, 65 plants have closed. You know, and so look, tariffs aren't the total solution. Tariffs are a tool in the toolbox to get these companies to do the right thing. And the intent behind it is to bring jobs back here and, you know, invest in the American workers. If they're going to bring jobs back here, you know, they need to be life sustaining jobs where people can make a good wage, a living wage, have adequate health care and have a retirement security and not have to work seven days a week or multiple jobs just to scrape to get by paycheck to paycheck.
- [17:05]
Emma Vigeland
Well, while UAW President Shawn Fain praised Trump's tariffs, he also said he had great concerns about President Trump's move to eliminate contracts for 700,000 federal workers, the firing of workers at the National Institute of Health and other agencies.
- [17:21]
Richard Wolff
I was a bit disappointed. I like John Fain, many of us do. But this was disappointing to say. Basically, I will support the president because he does something that might help my union. Even though Sean Fain knows, as most economists do, that if you put a tax on the goods coming in, they will go up in price because we have to pay that tax now. And that will lead to domestic producers able to raise their prices because their competitors from abroad are stuck with this tax. So we expect a boost to inflation, which is going to hurt the working class of this country in a very serious way, especially if it builds on itself, which often happens when you do tariffs like this. And I want to remind everyone, including Sean Faint, the autoworkers also represent workers in places that need export markets that produce in America and sell abroad. When those countries retaliate, as they likely will, we will lose export markets and that will mean fewer jobs. And no one, let me stress, no one now knows whether the jobs lost from this trade war will be greater or smaller than any jobs that are gained. It is a big risk, risk being taken by Mr. Trump. And if it doesn't go well, it'll be very bad for the American economy. It will produce the recession folks are worried about because if the prices go up, people buy less and that loses jobs. When you look at all of this, this is an incredibly risky.
- [19:03]
Emma Vigeland
Yep, I think that says it right there. That point about how tariffs don't prevent domestic manufacturers from raising prices is really key because I do think that the Trump administration or somebody in the Trump administration learned about from corporate America during COVID which is that, hey, there can be naturally occurring inflation because of a massive shock to the system, like a global pandemic, where there were supply chain bottlenecks, where our very complex global supply chain was disrupted because of work stoppages, where there was backup in the Suez, and the prices went up because we weren't able to continue the economy functioning in the way that it did prior to the pandemic because the supply chains were disrupted, as I've repeated. So that happened, but then the world kind of got back to work and the naturally occurring phenomena that resulted in inflated prices subsided, but the prices did not subside.
- [20:18]
Matt Binder
I mean, even Mark Cuban saying that, yeah, they're going to use this opportunity to raise prices.
- [20:22]
Emma Vigeland
They kept them up, the prices stayed up. And then you get quarterly earnings reports in the years like 2022, 2023, and you see that these CEOs are making record profits, these companies are making record profits, but prices are still high. Huh. It's almost like this is the shock doctrine. This is disaster capitalism. These are corporate interests taking advantage of shocks to our system to have scary moments in our history to advance their agenda. And I think Donald Trump is basically saying, all right, let's coagulate, let's cement these inflated prices and I'm going to build off of that. And his buddies will probably get rich. I'm sure there's some short positions that they have on the stock market and they have their cryptocurrency, which is outside of traditional goods and services and the trade partnerships that we have. And then we'll just continue to immiserate the working class via this sales tax because we won't even entertain the idea of raising taxes on the rich. We'll acknowledge that we're in a bad position and we're not generating revenue because we've decided to just slash our tax rate year over year over year since really Reagan and prior to that too, but since really Reagan, when things escalated. And so here you go.
- [21:48]
Matt Binder
I mean, the truth is they might think that. And I think that's probably the best instinct for what they're thinking. It's not going to work. This is going to be massively damaging in a way that, like, to them, like the COVID I don't think they're going to be able to reproduce that. I think this is severely damaging to the world economy. And I'd also just say, look, look, Sean Fain, when he says it's a tool in toolbox, I think it absolutely is.
- [22:13]
Emma Vigeland
Yes.
- [22:13]
Matt Binder
And it's. Is it the right one, though? Because the truth is, free trade is not the solution to this. Free trade is not why China is set up for the 21st century. It is because of state investment. And to that point, like Fein is right now, these tariffs themselves. Yeah, you don't want to be caught defending these because it's going to be a shit show. And not just for poor people, but especially for poor people.
- [22:36]
Emma Vigeland
But yeah. All right, guys, quick word from our sponsor and then we'll be talking to Omar Badar. Did you know that Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the United States with more than 10,000 different kinds of plants and over 2 million happy customers in the US you can count me as one of their happy customers. I have had trouble keeping plants alive in the past, so I was a little afraid to get a houseplant. I don't necessarily have Sam's green thumb. I know he's gotten a bunch of trees from Fast Growing Trees, but I did. And miraculously, it's been over a year and that thing is still kicking. So Fast Growing Trees, it provides a little bit of life to my apartment. You really don't need to have a yard or a lot of space. You can grow lemon, avocado, olive and fig trees inside your home. On top of the wide variety of houseplants that they have available, the experts at Fast Growing Trees curate thousands of plants so you can find the perfect fit for your specific climate, location and needs. You don't have to drive around to nurseries and big gardening centers. If you don't have a car like me, you can't do that at all. Or go, you know, take the subway to go to a nursery and then bring it back. No. Fast Growing Trees make it easy to order online and your plants are shipped to your door in one to two days. Whether you're looking to add some privacy, shade or natural beauty to your yard, Fast Growing Trees has in house experts ready to help you make the right selection. With growing and care advice available 24 7, you can talk to a plant expert about your soil type, landscape design, how to take care of your plants and everything else you need. No green thumb required. This spring, they have the best deals online, up to half off on select plants and other deals. And listeners to our show get an additional 15% off their first purchase when using the code majority at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fast growingtrees.com using the code majority at checkout. Fast growingtrees.com code majority offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Quick break and then we'll be joined by Omar. We are back. And we are joined now by Omar Badar, Middle east policy analyst, here to discuss with the escalating atrocities in the Middle east committed by Israel. Omar, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
- [25:39]
Omar Badar
Of course. Good to be with you, Emma.
- [25:41]
Emma Vigeland
Good to talk to you. Let's just start with the news that we got overnight that Israel I saw in Al Jazeera this morning that the death toll is at least 100. They've been bombing out of they've been bombing tents. Netanyahu has announced that they're essentially seizing territory in the Gaza Strip. And then Israel also bombed Syria overnight as well and seemingly deployed some troops. And the United States just deployed its law or sent its largest deployment since prior to October 7, really, to back up Israel here. These are major escalations. What's your viewpoint on the past week or 48 hours?
- [26:25]
Omar Badar
Yeah, it's been an absolute horror show. I really think, you know, just to kind of frame it a little bit of perspective, this entire Trump administration has sort of been, without exaggeration, the darkest moment of my adult life. And the sheer spread of issues on which they've been horrific is it's really hard to quantify. It's everything what they're doing domestically on accelerating the climate catastrophe, on the conflicts of interest, disregarding the courts, the dismantling of agencies. And yet even in the midst of all that horror, I think that the part that is the most extreme and grotesque has been what's unfolding in the Middle east, particularly this live stream genocide in Gaza that everybody can watch on their phones and on social media. And the United States effort to essentially go to a major devastating regional war in defense of that genocide. That is what we're witnessing. And also the domestic component of this sort of the crackdown on free speech in the United States. There's so many free speech warriors out there who talk about the importance of free speech and whatever. And yet we see the literal criminalization of speech that is critical of Israel and people with green cards and student visas being snatched up off the streets for it. And we're still pretending that they're like there's anything normal about this. It's really, really quite apocalyptic as far as I'm concerned. It's very dystopian reality that we're witnessing right now. And in terms of what's unfolding, look, with Gaza, it seems clear that Netanyahu is moving to Use his words, the final stage of what he calls a war. It's really the terminal stage of this genocide, the Final Solution.
- [28:02]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, let's be the Gaza holocaust, Final solution. That's where we're at, effectively.
- [28:08]
Omar Badar
And the crazy part is that there was always this pretense under Biden, where Netanyahu always knew that Biden lacked the backbone to stand up to him. But there was always this tension. There was, you're killing too many civilians, and maybe we're going to support a ceasefire and maybe there's going to be some tension. We might withhold these weapons here and there. Netanyahu was proceeding with a genocide, with an effort to bully Biden into supporting it all the way through. And frankly, I think he probably would have been able to bully him all the way through. But with Trump, what you see is Trump comes along and we don't have to pretend anymore. The speeches that Netanyahu used to give in which he says, no, we're not looking to reoccupy Gaza, we're just looking to defeat Hamas, that's not how they talk anymore. Now it's really out in the open where he's saying, the goal is to keep squeezing Gaza more and more and more. The Israeli military strategy has always been, for decades now, being used most extremely in Gaza right now to devastate the civilian population as a means of applying pressure, political pressure, on the people in charge. Sometimes it's Hezbollah in Lebanon, sometimes it's Hamas in Gaza. And that is the dictionary definition of terrorism. Attacking civilians to achieve political change with political aims is terrorism. So you have a policy of mass terrorism reaching genocidal levels. And Netanyahu is saying that now, after we break Hamas, force them to release all the hostages and agree to basically no longer govern Gaza, surrender, then from there, the path forward is implementation of Trump's plan, what he calls voluntary displacement. There's nothing voluntary about it. When you've destroyed a place's ability to sustain life and you've destroyed every hospital and you've mass killed children by the tens of thousands and there's rubble everywhere, and you're not going to allow them to rebuild, that is not a voluntary exit for people who choose not to live in that anymore. It is obviously the act of ethnic cleansing on the back of a genocide. And that's the plan if Hamas surrenders. So it tells you that there's no prospect for Palestinians at all to sustain the ability to maintain a society in Gaza as long as Trump and Netanyahu are allowed to continue on the rampage.
- [30:19]
Emma Vigeland
That they're continuing with Trump and Netanyahu in that first meeting basically revealed it, where Trump said, why would they want to go back? It's uninhabitable. And Netanyahu was smirking, acting, saying it in the passive voice, as if the man wasn't sitting right next to him who had committed these atrocities. And on the mask off, really, in terms of Netanyahu's rhetoric, let's play a little bit of this. This was Wednesday, so yesterday. And I'll read over the captions for the podcast audience, because this is in Hebrew, but this is him saying that basically they're going to take land in Gaza, and we'll show how that looks on a map in just a second. Last night in the Gaza Strip, we saw the IDF is seizing territory, striking the terrorists, and destroying the infrastructure. We are also doing something else. We are seizing the Morad Corridor. There will be the second Philadelphi, an additional Philadelphia corridor, because we are now dividing the strip and increasing the pressure step by step so that they will give us our hostages. And as long as they do not give them to us, the pressure will increase. Until they do, we are determined to achieve the objectives of the war, and we are attacking relentlessly and with a clear line and a clear mission. Well, that part's true. All right, whatever. God's help, it's a holy mission to exterminate this population. This is the image of the land that he's describing here. Now, people who aren't familiar, the Philadelphia corridor is essentially the border between the southern part of. Sorry, something's playing. Yeah, there's a. There's a. The Philadelphia corridor is the southern border between Egypt and the southern border of the Gaza Strip. And basically, Netanyahu and the Israelis have insisted on maintaining a permanent military presence there. And that was a part of this, you know, the ceasefire negotiations. Hamas and some of the partners in their negotiations didn't want that, obviously. Now, here is the Morag axis that he's describing. This basically is Israel seemingly creating a buffer zone for their buffer zone, which is their excuse to just continuously take more territory. I mean, they're taking Rafah and everything south of it, according to Netanyahu's own statements. Right there.
- [33:02]
Omar Badar
That's exactly right. And by the way, the name of that corridor is named after the Israeli settlement that used to be there, illegal Israeli settlement that was built in the heart of Gaza many years ago. And so it's another signal of their intent to essentially permanently take control over parts of the Gaza Strip at Least if not the entire thing. And the biggest lie of all this is that this has anything to do with the hostages. It's been clear from day one that Hamas had offered to effectually release all the hostages in exchange for an end to this genocide. And Israel has repeatedly rejected that. And ultimately it was a Biden that. It was a proposal that was presented by Biden for a ceasefire Israel rejected out of hand. American politicians are just experts at gaslighting the American public about who's responsible for rejecting ceasefires. They blamed Hamas, even though that's obviously not the case in terms of what actually unfolded in the negotiations. Trump comes along and forces Israel to accept the deal that was offered by Biden, but tells them it's only temporary, don't worry about it. Release, get some hostages out, and then do whatever you want. And sure enough, Israel gets some hostages back, then decides to violate virtually every other aspect of that deal. They don't let in the aid that they promised they would let into Gaza. They maintain control of the areas that they promised they would leave. It's supposed to be a ceasefire. And yet Israel kills more than 120 Palestinians in Gaza throughout that so called ceasefire and refuses to begin phase two of the negotiations that's supposed to be the permanent and to hostilities. And when Hamas says, no, we're not down with you violating every rule, Israel says, okay, fine, I guess we're going to go back to the genocide and just unleashes it. And then American politicians once again line up to say Hamas is to blame for the ceasefire falling apart. I mean, it really. Orwell would be rolling in his grave if he ever knew how unbelievably what was supposed to be cartoonish and over the top is exactly the reality that we're presented right now where there's complete and total disregard to the reality that is actually unfolding and a complete reversal of the role of perpetrator and victim in this entire saga.
- [35:08]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, I mean, he's. Netanyahu said it in that the IDF is seizing territory. That was the quote. That was the quote. And that is an open admission for what they basically denied the entire time under, under the Biden administration. And they've also not been successful in their stated goal of defeating Hamas, which we know that, like the hostages, is just a pretense for continued slaughter. Where is Hamas in all of this at this current moment? Because I think we can view these attacks as well as Trump doing Israel's dirty work bombing the Houthis. Also this escalation in Syria now That, you know, Bashar Al Assad has fled to Russia. These all appear like provocations towards Iran. Although obviously the first order issue for Netanyahu and the Israelis is to do the final solution in Gaza.
- [36:07]
Omar Badar
Yeah, look, it's, I mean, for Hamas, from the beginning, I think their calculus, starting with October 7th and long before for that matter, I mean, obviously Gaza was unlivable before this genocide even commenced. After October 7, the economy was in shambles, it was under siege. Palestinians could not go in and out of Gaza, they were not allowed to have an airport, no seaport, can't trade with the outside world. And then Israel could just bomb whatever parts of Gaza it wanted at will. And so you had a captive population that was desperate for a way out of the situation. Hamas's calculus was to stage an over the top attack on October 7, thinking that they'll withstand whatever Israeli retaliation comes. There is no denying that. We know what Israel's modus operandi is, that anytime there's any kind of Palestinian attack, all Israel does in return is escalate its devastation of civilians to just an unbelievable degree. And Hamas was prepared to deal with that to some extent. They were expecting that Israel was going to retaliate, it was going to be brutal, probably a lot of their leaders going to be killed. But ultimately they thought they could survive it and that the only way that Israel could achieve victory is that they were allowed to fully genocide the Palestinian population in Gaza, which they believed was impossible. That it's, you know, 2023, 2024, 2025, we're past the era where you can just annihilate a people in a way that can be live streamed on social media and that the world would put up with it. Their calculus has proved to be completely wrong. And I think they're now stuck in a situation where they don't know what to do anymore. They don't want to surrender because the devastation of Gaza, they don't want it to essentially all be for nothing. From their perspective, they've already lost everything. And so they're probably going to fight tooth and nail for the sake of salvaging something out of this. And if that means nothing at all, then they would rather having died fighting rather than just surrendering and allowing Israel to expand its territory even further and suffocate Palestinians even more and to get away with the atrocities that they have committed. The broader dynamic, though, I think has also been interesting is that you have groups like Hezbollah in Lebanon, Right. You know, they were a serious military rival to Israel and They had accumulated a certain level of military power that they were no longer intimidated by Israel. And Israel, frankly was afraid of the prospect of a full on confrontation with Hezbollah.
- [38:23]
Emma Vigeland
But then it looks like in this, in southern Lebanon for a period that Hezbollah was winning the ground war and that the IDF was being very cagey about the level of destruction they were experiencing.
- [38:33]
Omar Badar
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, they, they achieved something incredible with the intelligence penetration of Hezbollah. The, the pager's attack and the walkie talkies and being able to locate their entire top leadership and to eliminate them is something that nobody saw coming. There was a very, very deep intelligence hole within Hezbollah that Israel exploited. And Israel thought that on the back of that, that means Hezbollah is finished. So we can just march in and probably march to the Litany river or even further into Beirut. And they found out that that was not the case, that just because Hezbollah was decapitated doesn't mean that its fighters on the ground were going to give up. And they put up very, very fierce resistance and essentially pushed the Israelis back. So now we have this so called ceasefire in Lebanon in which Hezbollah is diminished politically, having lost its political leadership entirely and wanting to at this point, abide by a ceasefire. But Israel is not giving them breathing room. They keep bombing Lebanon, they've bombed Lebanon virtually every day throughout this entire so called ceasefire. And then on one occasion, some unknown person fires rockets out of south Lebanon and Israel retaliates by bombing the capital, Beirut. So the rules of the game from Israel's perspective are we do whatever the hell we want, we bomb whoever we want, and if anybody ever dares to object or retaliate in any way, then we're just going to unleash far greater violence. It is the rules of a mobster, it's a bully. And the only party left in the entire region that Israel does see as a threat is Iran. And the fear right now is that we are. You know, I don't think that the Trump administration is individually motivated to go to a war with Iran. It serves, it doesn't serve American interests, it doesn't serve Iranian interests. Nobody wants this war, with the exception of Israel. Israel is the only party in the entire region and the entire world that is eager to drag the US Into a confrontation with Iran because Israel knows it can't take on Iran by itself and needs the US to be involved in order for them to achieve that regime change. That, from Israel's perspective, would change the entire dynamic in the region and would complete the project of complete and total Israeli dominance over the entire area where nobody can object or defy or say anything to the fact that Israel is going to take whatever land it wants and massacre whoever they want and ethnically cleanse whatever part they want.
- [40:48]
Emma Vigeland
But they're already doing that. Which begs the question, why even risk a confrontation with Iran here if you're behaving in a way that is rational? I mean, these are not rational actors. Like, I'm flummoxed by the fact that even in this position where Israel's spilling all the blood that they want, that we're back here. I mean, Netanyahu quoted after 911 saying this will be good for us, and then receding on that point, testifying in the early 2000s, saying that the United States needs to get involved in Iraq. And it was integral in building up the opposition to the Iran nuclear deal, which in hindsight, frankly, Obama, it was maybe his greatest achievement, because people don't understand how much the Israel lobby that currently right now is wreaking, wreaking havoc over our politics was deeply opposed to it. NETanyahu did this PowerPoint presentation claiming Iran was cheating on the nuclear deal that had no real evidence behind it. This goes back to really, honestly, decades, Israel's desire to escalate with Iran.
- [42:03]
Paris Marks
Yeah.
- [42:03]
Emma Vigeland
Now that they're doing whatever the hell they want, they're still. They're still on this thing.
- [42:08]
Omar Badar
So two parts, just on the doing whatever the hell they want. Part of why they went genocidal in Gaza is to restore what they call Israeli deterrence. Israel believes that its survival depends on bullying everybody into being quiet and being afraid and shrinking. And the fact that you have Hezbollah in Lebanon, certainly battered and pushed back from the border, but not defeated, and has the possibility of rearming and, you know, refinding its strength once more. You have the fact that the Houthis in Yemen are not intimidated. They also receive support from Iran, and they're not afraid to fire missiles and to continue the blockade in the Red Sea to try to put pressure on Israel to end the genocide in Gaza. So there is a world in which the region's intimidation is not complete. There's still some resistance. And that, from Israel's perspective, is. Is unacceptable. And the way to deal with it once and for all is. And by the way, a lot of people refer to other groups in the region as proxies of Iran. I don't think that's a correct, you know, understanding of what the relationship is. These are not tools of Iran. These are individual groups. You know, Hezbollah and Lebanon is a fully Lebanese Group it is, you know, Lebanese.
- [43:16]
Emma Vigeland
They're allied with Iran.
- [43:18]
Omar Badar
That's right. So Iran looks for people in the region who can be in alliance essentially with them because they have the same goals, and they decide to support them and arm them. That doesn't make these groups proxies of Iran. They simply makes them allies of Iran, who, you know, in which there's a common strategic goal in terms of the region and the nuclear deal. It was never about the nuclear deal as far as Israel is concerned. The fact that Obama was able to achieve that nuclear deal that definitely prevented Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons in a way that is verifiable. Israel was the biggest opponent of that deal, which tells you that it was never about Iran's nuclear weapons program. What they want is enough pressure on Iran to capitulate. They want submission to the idea that Iran is not going to challenge Israeli dominance in the region. It's not going to arm or fund groups that are opponents of Israel. That's what they ultimately want, which is why they screwed up the deal and talked Trump into canceling that deal. And you have now, again, just forget the details of it, the idea that the United States, a nuclear armed country that is the only country in the world to have used nuclear weapons, and you have another country, Israel, in the region that is also nuclear armed, undeclared nuclear weapons, but everybody in the world knows that Israel has them.
- [44:29]
Emma Vigeland
Yes, the US and the CIA. Yeah.
- [44:33]
Omar Badar
And to have that dynamic where these countries are saying it's unacceptable for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons on the threat of annihilation of that country. Just think of the hypocrisy, the breakdown of the most elementary moral principle, the principle of universality, that the rules should apply to everyone. And US Policy is openly that the rules should only apply to Iran and not to Israel. And on top of that, the US Intelligence assessment is that there is no evidence that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. What they have is a civilian nuclear power plant that has the potential to be converted into military should they choose to do that one day in the future. But all indications as of now is that there is no indication that Iran is interested in acquiring a nuclear weapon. Their religious leaders have said that we oppose that in principle. And Iran is using this nuclear acceleration as a point of leverage to try to lift the devastating economic sanctions that the US has imposed on Iran. They want a return to the status quo where there are no devastating economic sanctions and the people of Iran can actually enjoy some level of economic prosperity. And in exchange, there is a verifiable guarantee that Iran cannot develop nuclear weapons and having international inspectors in there. That's the deal we had under Obama. Anybody who's serious about wanting to avoid a war, it's obvious what the path to that is. You go back to a deal that you had in place, and yet we have this utter lunacy right now where Trump is saying, we're going to keep devastating you economically and imposing these sanctions on you. And even though we have no indication that you're developing nuclear weapons, the fact that you're even building up a civilian nuclear program is not acceptable to us. And now we're threatening that we might go to war and having this massive military buildup in the region. This would be the most catastrophic war in recent and certainly my living time on this planet, as far as the.
- [46:22]
Emma Vigeland
US Is concerned, exponentially larger than Iraq. Terrain that is very mountainous and difficult for US Military personnel to understand. And like, not that I would, I would be so opposed to this, but just from the strategic perspective, it would be a quagmire that would make Iraq look like, you know, child's play, basically, if we were to actually get into.
- [46:48]
Omar Badar
A war with Iran and remember how devastating Iraq was. The fact that you've lost more than a million people in that country, that even if you ignore, I mean, sadly, it's the reality of American media discourse. Even if you ignore the destruction in Iraq and the devastation of the Iraqi population, from the US Perspective, everybody sees Iraq as a quagmire and a massive strategic mistake that endlessly killed American soldiers, shifted the regions of the dynamic not in the United States favor. Had Iran extended its influence, had the emergence of isis, and you can imagine taking on a player like Iran, which has been preparing for the possibility of a regime change. War has a massive arsenal of rockets that can reach any part of the Middle east. And people who are ideologically committed to the idea of dragging this fight as long as possible, we are looking at a far infinitely worse situation should something like that actually proceed. And there is again, people who voted for Trump on the illusion that he's the anti war candidate. I mean, at this point, looking at what's happening right now, those ought to be the loudest voices saying, this insanity has to come to an end. We can't allow this to drag on. And for what? All in defense of Israel's genocide in Gaza, the idea that you are willing to devastate the entire world and risk American interests in defense of nothing good, in defense of a genocide, for heaven's sake, I mean, just. It's yeah, it's beyond, beyond grotesque and beyond ugly and contemptible. The fact that we've allowed our politics.
- [48:13]
Emma Vigeland
To get to this point and the point that, you know, you were saying earlier on about how the Biden administration, Netanyahu was manipulating him and was very successful at really bullying him, at the very least, Biden's voters. Right. Some of them. And this is the point I was making about why I thought Kamala Harris would be a better option here. There's a constituency that will push back on what the president is doing, essentially, like the Democratic voters. There are some it's not enough, but some that will raise some hell. The thing with Trump is, is that he's basically untethered to any constituency that cares about this. You look at poll numbers with Republicans, they are as pro Israel as anything like it doesn't really necessarily. They like the idea of an ethnically pure colonizing state in the Middle east that's just killing all Muslim people that are threats to Western civilization or whatever. But in terms of. And I'll wrap up here with you, Omar, Israel's position as a pariah state despite in the short term being able to escalate its genocidal acts. I was struck by, I think there was an article in Times of Israel a week or so ago about Saudi Arabia's viewpoint, and there was some analysis of the prospects of normalization with Israel and how it's on a bit of shakier ground because Saudi Arabia has global ambitions that aren't just about security guarantees with the United States, that aren't just about weapons sales or potentially giving them a nuclear weapon, which is a part of the Abraham Accord negotiations. Saudi Arabia also has to weigh, okay, these two, like this bloated empire and its proxy state in the Middle east that's committing genocide. They're in some sort of, like, suicide cult pact. Like, I've got to look elsewhere and think about how my normalization with Israel might affect trade relationships in the future. And then you pair that with how China kind of got Iran and Saudi Arabia together at the bargaining table when it came to Yemen. Is there a shift here? I'm looking for some hope, but is this like, is Saudi Arabia going to see that? Maybe my interests don't really necessarily align with continuing to tie myself to the US Here, and I could find this security elsewhere.
- [50:46]
Omar Badar
I don't think we're quite at that tipping point yet, but there are certainly indications of it. I think Saudi Arabia remains, you know, in the US Orbit for the foreseeable future, but they do see the writing on the wall, the fact that things are not looking good right now. They don't know where things are heading. And from Israel's perspective, too, they understand that they are paying a very, very significant cost in their reputation around the world. I mean, Israeli leaders are wanted. They have warrants for their arrest by the International Criminal Court for the crime of extermination for starving a civilian population. There is no recovering from that in the short term. But what Israel sees is a small window of opportunity with Donald Trump where they know this set of circumstances is not going to present itself again. And they think that they can get away with whatever they need to get away with whatever they can in the meantime, because the shifting sales of American public opinion, the future of American policy, there's clear indication that 20 years from now, Israel could not do this with American support. Young people in The United States, 40 and under understand very well why this is morally reprehensible and strategically idiotic. And so Israel is trying to do as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible. From their perspective, I think they're imagining a US Scenario with Native Americans where, yeah, sure, history will look back and think, this was terrible, but what's done is done, and you can just move on and normalize. I think they're miscalculating. I think their reading is incorrect. We are at a very, very different stage of time in the world where the consequences for their behavior are going to be coming up much, much quicker. Reality is going to sit in harder. It's not going to spare Palestinians in the meantime. Unfortunately, I think Palestinians are still going to receive the brunt of that brutality. We're going to see deaths continue at an unprecedented rate. The west bank might be next. But I do agree that in the long term, Israel could be potentially setting itself up for collapse by insisting on carrying out this genocide in full view of the entire world and thinking that this is going to be the path for them to security and prosperity, when all you're doing is entrenching deeply hostile attitudes throughout the entire region and beyond for the fact that this set of criminals has been allowed to behave the way that they have.
- [53:00]
Emma Vigeland
Omar Badr, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.
- [53:04]
Omar Badar
Thank you very much. Good to be with you.
- [53:06]
Emma Vigeland
Good to be with you as well. All right, quick break, folks. And then we are going to play an interview I recorded yesterday with Paris Marks on Tesla and maybe a little bit of brighter news. Tesla sales are kind of plummeting in the first part of this year.
- [53:23]
Matt Binder
Good news for Elon Musk is everyone else is going to.
- [53:26]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah, that's true. We're all in the same. Same boat. I thought you were the party.
- [53:34]
Matt Binder
Slow them down for me.
- [53:35]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah. We'll be right back with Paris. We are back. And we are joined now once again by friend of the show, Paris Marks, tech critic, author, host of the Tech Won't Save Us podcast, author of the Disconnect substack. Paris, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
- [54:00]
Brandon
Absolutely. Great to be back.
- [54:02]
Emma Vigeland
So the Tesla quarterly earnings report came out yesterday and it does not say good things about Tesla sales. Reportedly, vehicle sales dropped 13% in the first quarter when compared to last year's first quarter, and that would make it the worst quarter for the company since 2022. So let's just start there. What's these? Tesla protests are working, but there's also an issue with the cars themselves.
- [54:34]
Brandon
Oh, totally. Yeah. It's certainly not good news for Tesla, but I, I don't think anyone should be surprised about this at this point because of everything that we've seen happening. Like, we've. We already know that in 2024, Tesla sold fewer vehicles than in 2023, and analysts were predicting, you know, because of everything that's going on, that in 2025 it's going to sell even fewer vehicles yet again. Right. That's on the one hand because of fundamental problems in the business itself. You know, its lineup of vehicles is quite stale at the moment. It's quite old. You know, it doesn't have, like, a cheaper vehicle that, that is going to be available, like, you know, in the near future. That's really going to change that. And the cybertruck, which was supposed to be, you know, its big new thing, is performing absolutely horribly. You know, we just saw a recall of virtually every cybertruck that has been sold. And so we know that they've only sold about 46,000 of them. Even though Musk was saying. I think they were. I think he said that they were projecting they were going to sell like at least 250,000 a year to get started. There was a really funny story the other day, actually, that they had these, I think they're called foundation model cybertrucks. So, like this really, like, exclusive early edition only for people who had reserved the vehicle early, because Musk said a million people had reserved the vehicle and demand was going to be massive and all this kind of stuff. And the story was that they were actually like kind of having to scrape off the. The foundation badge. And resell them as regular vehicles because they don't have enough people buying them.
- [56:03]
Emma Vigeland
That's amazing.
- [56:04]
Brandon
Yeah. Things are not great also.
- [56:06]
Emma Vigeland
So he could get the money early. Right. Like, wasn't that a bit of a scheme? It's almost like a Ponzi scheme, which apparently that's what Social Security is, he's telling us. But that. That's what it felt like.
- [56:17]
Brandon
Oh, totally. And, you know, they've been doing this for years. Right? Now, in that case, they're not taking, like, the full amount of money upfront. Generally, it's quite small deposit, so that, you know, they can say that they have all this demand that is ready to go as soon as the vehicle is going to be ready. And then, of course, you know, all those apparently million people who signed up to reserve, you know, the vast majority were like, actually not going to buy this. Or maybe there's a different EV that I prefer more now. So, yeah, it's. It's not been. It's not been great for Tesla. And as you say, it's not just like the issues in the business, obviously. It's everything that we're seeing with Elon Musk right now, with his embrace of Donald Trump and the wider far right around the world, you know, the Nazi salute that he's given. You know, how there are a large number of people and especially, like, the traditional kind of market that you would want for Tesla is. Right. A bunch of, like, environmental liberals who are like, I'm not going anywhere near this brand. And it's. You can't say any longer that, like, Tesla is the only electric car that is a viable option for people. There are so many other electric cars out there now from so many different brands. So if you really care about, you know, reducing the footprint of your driving, well, you can go buy a Ford or, you know, whatever else. Right. You don't need to buy a Tesla.
- [57:34]
Emma Vigeland
Right. And I'm wondering if you could. And I want to get to how China is eating our lunch on this in just a second, but can you speak a little bit more about the fact that. That Tesla has been lagging in terms of the models that it's presenting to the public and some of the promises that Elon Musk has made that aren't coming to fruition. For example, the robo taxis, that was a big part of what he was selling to investors. That was what was going to help the company out and it's why they didn't need to produce a more commercially accessible model for people. But that's not happening either. I mean, the technology was, it was obvious that this was not going to be viable. I mean, it was killing people on the street that you need a little bit more time to perfect this, if you can at all. Yeah.
- [58:25]
Brandon
Oh yeah. It's more like terrible promises and terrible decisions by Elon Musk for this company that like he lords over. Right. And ensures that the people who actually know what they're doing can't do the things that would actually make sense for a business like this. So on the one hand, when you think about the models that Tesla offers, you know, the Model X, the Model Y, the Model S, you know, all these, the Model 3, of course, a lot of those vehicles have been out for quite a while now. Right. They're not new models that have been launched quite recently. The Cybertruck is the most recent one, which is a couple of years old now. And there have been like small refreshes to some of those vehicles. But really, you know, they look very similar to how they've looked for a long time. You don't have a ton of new kind of feature sets that are in there and they just look kind of stale. And when you talk about, you know, new things coming down the line, there was this story, I believe it was in Walter Isaacson biography of Elon Musk that came out, what was that, A year or two ago now where, you know, he's basically describing how the design team at Tesla is saying, like Elon Musk, we, you know, need to make this cheaper, more mass market car, you know, because this is like what the goal has been supposedly for Tesla since the very beginning. And Musk basically totally shuts them down and says, no, I want us to work on a robo taxi. And like, I'll take the hit if this is the wrong decision. And so, you know, they showed off the Robo Taxi last year on a movie set lot on the Warner Bros. Lot because like, you know, no one really believes that this is going to become a mass market product anytime soon. And so what we hear now is they're trying to like accelerate the work on the actual like mass market, cheaper car because they recognize that they're really being hit right now. But it's really hard to, hard to believe that that is going to make a huge difference. And the one final thing I would, I would note there is that, you know, you mentioned China and certainly we can get into that. But one of the big criticisms that we hear internationally now as well, because obviously in the North American market you're not dealing with Chinese competition, but that a lot of these automakers in China have moved forward unlike the tech capabilities of the vehicles, in a way that the North American automakers have not. And even Tesla, which is kind of seen as like the more tech focused automaker. And so, you know, even in terms of what at least some consumers want from their vehicles, it doesn't seem that, that Tesla is keeping up in those, you know, international markets that are really banked on for, for future growth.
- [60:58]
Emma Vigeland
Let's go there then, because yesterday you were able to drive a Chinese electric vehicle, byd, they are just rapidly gobbling up market share globally. Obviously not in North America yet. And Paris, you are Canadian, if I'm not mistaken. So I want to talk about some of the possibilities that Canada could be actually buying from China because of these tariffs. But again, I'm getting ahead of myself because there's so much to chew here. But byd, I saw a report a few days ago that's indicated that they now have the capacity to make electric vehicle batteries that charge in the same time that it would take to fill up a gas tank. Is that true? Because I'm skeptical of any business report, no matter what country it's from. I'd be skeptical if a capitalist said it here in the United States as well. Is that true? And then if you could just talk about your experience driving a BYD and compare it to Tesla, even without that new technological advancement applied yet.
- [62:05]
Brandon
Yeah, absolutely. I would just say on the reports, like, it's entirely feasible that they have achieved that. I think we're waiting to like, see the actual confirmation, you know, as we're going to want to do. But yeah, like, I think it's believable that they've potentially done that. And that's not to say that other automakers won't follow suit, you know, kind of if they have done it first, then we'll probably see, you know, other Western. Well, we'll see Western automakers kind of catch up on that in probably the next, like year and a half, two years. But, you know, it's potentially a place where they will be further, you know, ahead. Right. And the thing to understand there, I think, is that, you know, BYD is making cars, but originally they were making batteries. Right. Like, they have a lot of this stuff in house and they are working on the different aspects of the electric car. Instead of saying, like, we're making the car, we're getting the battery from this company, you know, we're getting this other thing from this company, it's Very much. You know, a lot of it is in house, what. What they are doing there, which is really distinct from how a lot of North American automakers have worked for a long time. Tesla is even a bit distinct there, too, where they do more in house than. Than a lot of, you know, the traditional kind of North American automakers, the Detroit 3 and things like that. But, you know, basically, yeah, what we're seeing is that BYD's global sales continue to grow. They've expanded, they've passed Tesla's global sales at this point. And that is despite not being in the North American market, you know, not being in Canada, the United States, and also having a certain degree of tariff against them in Europe as well. But even there, we're seeing that their sales continue to increase despite that. And, you know, Chinese vehicles are just becoming a major kind of, you know, component of the global auto market right now. And North America is just what is separate from that. And I think the one final point I would add there that I think forgot to mention on the batteries is that a lot of these Chinese vehicles tend to use a different battery chemistry than the one often used in North America. So the ones in North America allow you to get a longer charge, potentially do more recharges than, you know, then the type of battery that the Chinese.
- [64:11]
Emma Vigeland
Vehicles are using material is that.
- [64:16]
Brandon
I can't remember the. Can't remember the chemistry is off the top of my head.
- [64:19]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Brandon
But basically, the Chinese ones, you know, they won't have the same degree of range. And what is it? They won't have the same degree of range, but they're also, like, less likely to catch on fire, which is something that's pretty big. Yeah. That we're seeing an issue with in North America. But basically, to get to your broader point on byd, yeah, I'm in New Zealand. Of course, I'm not in Canada at the moment, which is why I was able to drive one down in Australia and New Zealand, there's not domestic automotive manufacturing anymore, so they don't really care who imports vehicles into their market. And so, you know, Chinese brands can sell here just as easily as. As, you know, European or North American brands or Korean or Japanese or whatever. Right. And so. So yeah, I. I drove one yesterday. It was interesting, I would say, like, you know, it's an electric car. So every time I drive an electric car, it's like, man, these actually drive, like, really smoothly. You know, it was quite nice. One thing I would say, though, is, like, you know, I'm not a big Car guy. So I can't talk about, like, oh, the suspension was like this. And, you know, this is how, like, you know, I don. I'm not a big car person in that way. I thought it drove perfectly fine for, you know, what a regular person like me would think. But the thing that did really stand out to me is the interior styling of it. Felt like, very. How do you say, tacky, gimmicky almost. I was, like, not loving it. It was, like, very plastic. And I sent it to a friend of mine and he compared it to, like, a 90s boombox. Like, some of the things that were, like, really standing out. I was like, what is. What is going on here? So I don't know if they're all like that or it was just the one that I drove. But, like, yeah, I think. I don't know. It's a pretty standard car, and I don't see why, you know, you would not want to choose one of those over something else, especially if you were going to be able to get it at a much more reasonable price.
- [66:05]
Emma Vigeland
Is that the case, is that they are a lot cheaper than other vehicles? Is that possible or other electric vehicles?
- [66:12]
Brandon
Well, that's what we're seeing in other markets. Right. You know, obviously, we know we have these stories about, like, oh, my God, how cheap the cars are in China. We know that when they're sold in, say, you know, in Australia, New Zealand or in Europe, that the prices do tend to be a bit higher because you need to meet different kind of regulations and standards and, you know, things like that. I believe BYD has a factory in Hungary, for example, to supply, at least in part, the European market. But, yeah, as far as I'm aware, the prices on these electric vehicles tend to be more affordable than a lot of the ones that we're seeing from Western automakers at the moment. And, you know, I think you often see that explained away as, like, oh, China's just using, like, slave labor, and so they have lower costs for that. I think what we're actually seeing there is that BYD is. Is profitable in the sales of its electric cars. Like, it's not like losing a ton of money. And it's also that, you know, I think when we think about the Chinese market, we think like, oh, there's these few state companies that the government has set up and they've been allowed to, like, dominate anything, everything. But actually, like, you have a lot of kind of competition from a lot of local governments around the country kind of throwing money at these companies and they had over 100 electric vehicle companies that were intensely competing in order to, you know, basically, you know, gain market share. Right. In order to become dominant firms. And we're seeing at the moment in China this, like, consolidation, where a number of those, like, smaller companies are folding. But, like, it's not like, oh, the government just set this up and now it's dominant and, you know, it's selling for much more cheaply around the world in order to undercut other automakers. It's like, no, they had to compete locally in order to improve their technology and the quality of their manufacturing. And now, because they have been able to do that, now they are going global and selling in other places as well, which is, like, basically entirely what we would be expecting to see, I think.
- [68:08]
Emma Vigeland
Well, it's also kind of a test case for how you're able to effectively use competition to make a product a little bit better. Even when there is heavy state involvement and state control. These things are not mutually exclusive. Although here in the United States, what the reaction is probably going to be is, well, how can we reify oil and gas? More like just the idea that we're seeing this technology move at such a rapid pace with our greatest competitor. And it seems like this administration even like, they'll prop up Teslas, no question. But when it comes to the subsidization of technology, which would require massive, kind of like, state investment to get it over the hump, and I know that the CHIPS act was a part of that, but Trump wants to roll this back, and frankly, I'm in favor of more direct involvement than just a subsidization bill that would make us more in competition with China. It kind of seems like it's over. Is it over?
- [69:12]
Brandon
Like, we need that industrial policy if we want to compete. Right.
- [69:15]
Emma Vigeland
We are have Trump for four years, and that's not happening. So we're done.
- [69:19]
Brandon
Exactly. Yeah. This won't be novel to your audience, but it very much feels like the United States, at a moment where it is experiencing its relative decline geopolitically, instead of trying to shore up what power it has in the world, it feels like it's destroying the alliances and institutions that actually maintain its global power and authority. Right. You see that in kind of the threats against Canada and Europe and other, you know, former allies. But as you're saying, you also see that in the kind of decisions that Doge and, you know, the wider kind of US Government attack being levied by the Republicans is having in cutting, you know, science and technology spending and research spending, and all that kind of stuff, which is going to be very essential to the United States ability to maintain its technological supremacy, or what's left of it. And I think what we see very clearly is that not just is China, like, already competitive on a lot of technologies with the United States, but. But is moving ahead on a lot of key ones as well.
- [70:23]
Emma Vigeland
And they are very committed story, right?
- [70:25]
Brandon
Totally.
- [70:25]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [70:26]
Brandon
Yeah.
- [70:26]
Emma Vigeland
With their deep SEQ model being cheaper and seemingly even more expansive. That. That's also to bring it back to Musk. That's part of his investment in scraping our data from the Treasury. Is that his. So to give GROK a competitive advantage, even though it's not just behind the Chinese AI models, it's behind open, like, open AI and other US Models that are already way more expensive and bloated that they need to be. They're propped up by. It's all about getting these tech guys rich. It's all about speculation and, like, in hindsight, perhaps throwing a bunch of money at tech guys after the financial collapse because they were the good. The good rich people. Maybe, maybe that's not how things work. Maybe there is, like, it's really just a system of incentives, and there aren't good guys and bad guys. It's just capitalism. And that's kind of where we're at right now.
- [71:23]
Brandon
Oh, totally. It's easier to present yourself as, like, you know, the good guy of capitalism when your business is not the most dominant in the world. But we've seen, like, you know, these tech capitalists just become just like all the rest of them, if not even worse, you know, now that they've accumulated the power and the wealth that they have. Right. Like, obviously we have seen, you know, kind of like oligarchies in the United States in the past. We've seen relationships between the government and, like, billionaires. But for them to be, like, so open in their embrace and capture of the US Government and Musk in particular over the past little while is. Is just stunning. And it does feel like, like a new barrier has been crossed, you know, and these were the people less than a decade ago that were being held up as, like, you know, making the world a better place and all this kind of stuff. It's like, man, they really pulled the wool over people's eyes and did so, so effectively.
- [72:18]
Emma Vigeland
Suckers. But to kind of just bring it back to Musk and maybe moving to Europe and then also just talking about Canada a little bit. There have been two things that I've been noticing, and it's not just me, of course, you've been writing about it and other folks have been, but, but his obsession with AfD and Germany in particular. Thankfully, AfD, they won a lot, but they were still, they didn't win enough for the Conservatives to fold and they're not in the coalition in Germany. He has a major plant outside of Berlin. In Canada. There was reporting about a month ago that there was, that the, the Tesla dealerships claimed that they had sold thousands and thousands of cars within a four day span, just coincidentally to meet a deadline for rebates that the Canadian government was providing via a program, subsidies, essentially. Can you talk about the threats to his business not just in the United States, but in Canada and how maybe some of this, you know, very dubiously legal like activity, frankly, is a response to that?
- [73:46]
Brandon
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, in part it's like the threats to his businesses are in some cases things that were there before. You know, if you're thinking about, you know, countries or regional blocs like the EU wanting to be more stringent on environmental regulations and things like that, that might affect him. But then the other piece of it of course is as these regions and as these governments see what he is doing in the United States and his embrace of the far right, they are saying, you know, why should we still continue to treat this guy and his businesses, you know, in an exceptional way? Why shouldn't we just apply kind of the regular scrutiny that we would any business to what he is doing? And so his relationship with Trump we can see is having an effect on his businesses in the United States or at least you know, consumers perception of them. Meanwhile, he will be able to get more public contracts, it seems, from the US Government because of that relationship with Trump. You know, we've seen the, the rollout of Starlink services, say in many other parts of government. It looks like SpaceX is going to be getting more contracts for rocket launches and things like that. You know, we'll see if Tesla is going to get some kind of sweetener from that too. And not just a little show in front of the White House, but in other parts of the world we're very clearly seeing that, you know, there are these big demonstrations against Tesla and we're seeing these really declining Tesla sales. If you, if you look at used cars, web websites now, you'll see that they're filled with Teslas and people trying to get rid of them, which is obviously very welcome. But then if you think about say SpaceX and Starlink, you're seeing in Europe, in Canada, that governments in those parts of the world are also rejecting the increasing dependence on Elon Musk's companies. Right. In Ontario, the government tore up $100 million contract with Starlink because of the threats against Canada that were supported by Elon Musk in Europe. Of course, they are talking seriously about making sure they have a realistic alternative to Starlink because of what Elon Musk has been doing in Ukraine and you know, the threats that he's been levying about further restricting Starlink access. So, you know, the other businesses more broadly are under threat. And just about what you say about Canada, like, I think that this was a really telling moment. Like, it's, it's so brazen, right? You know, you had four dealerships basically claim that they have made all these Tesla sales just before the EV rebate was cut off because, you know, it had to end by a specific date. And because of stuff with the government right now, they weren't able to extend it. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new EV rebate, you know, in the next few months that that comes into force. But so they processed like 40 or they processed so many sales that they would get $43 million in rebates from the government. They just announced earlier this week or last week that they will not be actually sending that $43 million to those Tesla dealerships. They will be putting it on hold. And that Tesla vehicles will not be eligible for any future EV rebate programs from the federal government. And we have seen in a number of provinces that Teslas have been removed from the provincial electric vehicle rebates as well, because people are rightfully so, very angry right now and seeing the connection that exists between Elon Musk and Donald Trump and that not only do they not want to be associated with Elon Musk's businesses as well, but they see him also as, you know, a way to apply leverage to the Trump administration too.
- [77:17]
Emma Vigeland
And lastly, this is kind of a continuation of his entire trajectory as a capitalist and the richest person on the planet as of now, which is just gaming governments and taking federal contracts to inflate his wealth. And like, that is why he's flailing about. He's flailing about because the EU has decided, hey, we're going to actually use antitrust to go after big tech. And also when it comes to Europe, so much of his money is based on selling carbon credits. And can you explain that really briefly to our audience, Paris, what those are and why, if Tesla sales continue to fall, that source of revenue for Tesla is going to be very much in question.
- [78:02]
Brandon
Yeah, it's fascinating. And Ed Niedermeyer, who is the author of a book called Ludicrous, has done a lot of reporting on this over the years. But, you know, for a long time, when Tesla was reporting profits, those profits were not actually from selling cars, but from selling carbon credits. And a lot of that was happening in California. And it was really interesting because for many years, Tesla was actually getting double the number of carbon credits that it should have been getting, because one time between San Francisco and Los Angeles, it demoed a battery swap station. So you would be able to like, drive up your car, it would take the battery out, put in a new one, and you'd be able to drive along. So you didn't need to, like, you know, continue charging or whatever. And that was demoed like one time, but because of that, they got double the carbon credits from, you know, whatever. California, you know, public body regulates these things because they were like, look, they're going to do battery swap. So they deserve to have double the credits because the vehicles are going to be capable of this. They never move forward with it. They had no intention to, but they knew that by doing this demo, they would double the number of carbon credits they were getting. So, yeah, this was like a whole scheme to make a ton of money off of this kind of stuff. And now that Tesla sales are declining and in trouble, there was just a story recently that its carbon credit revenue is also going to get hit because it's not selling as many vehicles, so it's not getting as many carbon credits. So it's another place where the revenue of Tesla is in trouble. And this company, more broadly, the foundation of an electric car company that it's built on, is very fragile. And there's a lot of opportunity to hurt Elon Musk through hurting Tesla. And especially these days, without. If you feel that electric vehicles and electrification of transportation is a key part of addressing climate change, there's no real argument to say that we can't do this to Tesla today because it's going to hurt the climate. Elon Musk is openly advocating for more oil and gas drilling for more fossil fuels at the moment. And there are so many other, like, we were talking about electric vehicle options that people can pick from.
- [80:02]
Emma Vigeland
So, yeah, I mean, even gaming the carbon credit. Carbon credit system shows that you don't actually care about solving climate change because you're basically just saying, oh, yes, our electric vehicles will, you know, stop these emissions, but we will sell the rights to other Companies to go over their pollution limits because we have a little bit of a gap. That's the business model. It's been completely insincere from the beginning. So, Paris, I really appreciate your time today. Everybody should check out Paris's substack disconnect and also the Tech Won't Save Us podcast. Really appreciate your time. Oh, really quickly, before you go, do you think that he put up Tesla stock as collateral for the purchase of Twitter and that's part of why he's panicking so much?
- [80:50]
Brandon
Well, we know he did. Yeah. He. And he has a bunch of loans. Basically, he takes part of how he funds his life is that he takes out loans against Tesla stock. And so if Tesla stock falls enough, there are margin calls on a lot of those loans and stuff. Right. So, yeah, it's a real vulnerability for him.
- [81:08]
Emma Vigeland
All right, well, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much, Paris. Appreciate your time today.
- [81:12]
Brandon
Absolutely. Thanks so much.
- [81:30]
Emma Vigeland
We are back, folks, and that is the free part of this program. If you would like to support us, please go to jointhemajorityreport.com you can become a member. You can im the show. We will read your ims on air. Most likely at some point we get a bunch. But you have a chance, a very high chance, to have your IM read on air. We're gonna welcome Brandon and Ben. Oh, hello. You gotta unmute yourself.
- [82:02]
Paris Marks
I wasn't talking.
- [82:03]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, hello.
- [82:06]
Paris Marks
Hello?
- [82:07]
Emma Vigeland
Wait, maybe it's something wrong with me.
- [82:09]
Matt Binder
Emma lost her headphone ability. I can hear you, Brandon.
- [82:11]
Paris Marks
Emma is headphones versus rnn, but yeah. Hello, everybody. It's Brandon.
- [82:15]
Omar Badar
I'm here.
- [82:16]
Emma Vigeland
Hello.
- [82:16]
Brandon
Hello.
- [82:16]
Paris Marks
I'm glad to be here.
- [82:17]
Emma Vigeland
Hello. For me? Okay, there you go. No. No audio. No, I can't hear me either.
- [82:25]
Mike
What?
- [82:26]
Matt Binder
I hear you loud and clear, man.
- [82:27]
Emma Vigeland
What is going on?
- [82:28]
Mike
Okay, good.
- [82:30]
Matt Binder
That's weird.
- [82:31]
Mike
He doesn't want to hear us.
- [82:33]
Matt Binder
I'll take this now.
- [82:35]
Emma Vigeland
I hear you guys. I gotta fix this cord.
- [82:38]
Matt Binder
Got a little bit of cable decay.
- [82:40]
Emma Vigeland
Yes.
- [82:41]
Matt Binder
Join themjorityreport.com so we can get some new cables.
- [82:45]
Emma Vigeland
But you sound much louder than they do. Let me. Can you guys just say hi really quick? Sorry for the pot.
- [82:52]
Paris Marks
Hi.
- [82:53]
Emma Vigeland
Okay, it sounds better now. Perfect. What's happening on your shows, Bender?
- [82:59]
Mike
Sure. So yesterday on my stream, YouTube.com MattBinder talked about the breaking Trump tariffs and Elon Musk's massive L in Wisconsin. You can check that out@YouTube.com mattbinder yeah.
- [83:18]
Emma Vigeland
That Wisconsin thing happened this week.
- [83:19]
Matt Binder
Feels like a million years ago.
- [83:22]
Emma Vigeland
All right, check that out, folks. Brandon, what's happening on your show?
- [83:27]
Paris Marks
The discourse yesterday, funny enough, we also talked about the tariffs, and we also talked about Elon Musk's loss, or at least symbolic loss in Wisconsin. And I guess tomorrow we'll be streaming again to talk about the tariffs some more.
- [83:43]
Emma Vigeland
The aftermath, I mean, it's pretty insane. We have. Trump has unilaterally decided to just completely blow up everything that we've come to know about our economy for unknown reasons.
- [83:56]
Paris Marks
I think, you know, a lot of people aren't used to having a president with the courage to subject their own country to crippling sanctions. But, you know, that's America, baby. You know, you got to roll with the punches. People have gone too soft. Things are too cheap. Everyone's saying that.
- [84:11]
Emma Vigeland
Trump. Yeah.
- [84:12]
Matt Binder
I want to point out a great series of tweets here by Mike Bouvet. Mike is a creator of Quibi.
- [84:21]
Emma Vigeland
I think that's a joke.
- [84:22]
Matt Binder
Yeah. But he tweeted out the Getty Images photographer getting ready to shoot sad people on the New York Stock Exchange trading floor today. And it's that clip of LeBron, I think, before he went on a tear.
- [84:33]
Emma Vigeland
Against this in the NBA Finals. Yeah.
- [84:36]
Matt Binder
It was Cleveland that he. Or the Detroit. When he was. He was in Cleveland. Way to the Detroit thing. I can't remember who he's playing then, but anyway, that's not important. But this is the. The tweet. Oh, crap.
- [84:45]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, well, they have a photo of. Just go to the quote tweet, I think. Oh, dang.
- [84:53]
Matt Binder
Hold on. I gotta find.
- [84:54]
Mike
You aren't verified yet. You better quick, quickly on your $8 stat.
- [85:01]
Emma Vigeland
They. We are. Verifications were imposed on us. Bender, this is not something I saw, but Kentucky Lassa says cmr. If you'd sold your studio to Polymarket, you'd be able to afford new headphones. Good point.
- [85:15]
Matt Binder
And here is the first image of one of the guys on the stock trading floor.
- [85:20]
Mike
Always take a picture of that guy. That guy is, like, infamous for always being the model on Wall Street. Wall street photo.
- [85:29]
Emma Vigeland
He just has an expressive face, I guess that's. That's funny.
- [85:36]
Mike
There actually were, like, a lot, like, years ago, like, profiles on that guy because he's actually legit known for, like, just being the guy they always take the photos of.
- [85:46]
Emma Vigeland
That's funny.
- [85:48]
Paris Marks
No, it's not funny. It's freedom. That's what we're all. That's what we're all experiencing now. Freedom.
- [85:55]
Emma Vigeland
I do.
- [85:55]
Mike
I'm assuming you. You guys already talked about, like, the spirit specific Funny parts about the tariff, like the. Like the island. The specific island.
- [86:04]
Emma Vigeland
Not quite. We. We had to get to our two guests, but we'll. We'll expand on this in a sec. I wanted to make sure I. Before I forget, Matt, what's happening on left reckoning? Oh, yeah, like refening.
- [86:15]
Matt Binder
Like refening.
- [86:16]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [86:17]
Matt Binder
Left reckoning. We're having Luke Savage on talking about what I just talked to Luke about. Oh, abundance. That. You remember that thing, the abundance gender. How we just need to let capitalists get out of the capitalist way so they can, you know, deliver the beautiful abundance to. Into everyone's lap. We talk about that with Luke Savage. He's less than convinced, it turns out.
- [86:41]
Emma Vigeland
Oh, all right. Well, check it out, folks. Patreon.com. left reckoning. And we have a correction again from Kentucky Leftist. Come on, guys. The LeBron picture. Heater down three, two against Boston. In Boston. This was 2012 after they'd lost the Dallas Mavericks already. So his legacy was on the line. Very important stuff here. Eye roll.
- [87:00]
Matt Binder
In my mind, I was the Pistons thing where he scored, like, 27 straight points, but nope, wrong, wrong.
- [87:05]
Emma Vigeland
I mean, moment for me, the, like, legacy series for LeBron is always going to be that. That series when he was finally brought the championship to Cleveland down state block against the back. Yes, yes, yes. That's. That's why he's the goat. All right, guys, we'll see you in the fun half. 6, 4, 6, 2, 5, 7, 3, 9, 2 0. See you there.
- [87:26]
Brandon
Okay.
- [87:26]
Joe Rogan
Emma, please.
- [87:27]
Emma Vigeland
Well, I just. I feel that my voice is sorely lacking on the majority report.
- [87:31]
Joe Rogan
Wait, look, Sam is unpopular. I do deserve a vacation at Disney World, so. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to welcome Emma to the show.
- [87:40]
Emma Vigeland
It is Thursday.
- [87:41]
Omar Badar
I think you need to take a.
- [87:43]
Matt Binder
Little bit for Sam.
- [87:44]
Brandon
Yes, please. I'm.
- [87:45]
Joe Rogan
I'm gonna. I'm gonna pause you right there.
- [87:47]
Donald Trump
Wait, what?
- [87:47]
Joe Rogan
You can't encourage Emma to live like this. And I'll tell you why. Was offered a tour, sushi and poker with boys. Tour sushi and poker with boys. Who was offered a tour.
- [88:00]
Emma Vigeland
Yeah.
- [88:00]
Joe Rogan
Sushi and poker with boys.
- [88:02]
Richard Wolff
What?
- [88:03]
Joe Rogan
Tour, sushi and poker.
- [88:05]
Emma Vigeland
Had Tim's upset.
- [88:06]
Joe Rogan
Twerk sushi and poker with T. Boys was offered with Twerk sushi and that's what we call biz. T. Sushi and poker with two boys.
- [88:16]
Emma Vigeland
Right. Twerk sushi and we're gonna get demonetized.
- [88:20]
Joe Rogan
I just think that what you did to Tim pool was mean.
- [88:24]
Emma Vigeland
Free speech.
- [88:25]
Joe Rogan
That's not what we're about here. Look at how Sad he's become now. You shouldn't even talk about it. I think you're responsible.
- [88:31]
Emma Vigeland
I probably am in a certain way. But let's get to the meltdown here.
- [88:36]
Joe Rogan
Sushi and poker with the boys. Oh, my God.
- [88:39]
Omar Badar
Wow.
- [88:40]
Joe Rogan
Sushi.
- [88:40]
Emma Vigeland
I'm sorry.
- [88:40]
Joe Rogan
I'm losing my mind. Someone's offered a tour. Sushi and poker with boys. Logic. Tour. Sushi and poker with boys. I think I'm like a little kid. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a kid. Tour. I think I'm like a little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. Add this debate 7,000 times. A little kid. Think I'm like a little kid. A little kid. Think I'm like a dick. I'm losing my mind.
- [89:01]
Matt Binder
Some people just don't understand.
- [89:03]
Joe Rogan
So I'm not trying to be a dick right now, but, like, I absolutely think the US should be colliding on me with a life and kids.
- [89:11]
Emma Vigeland
That's not what we're talking about here, all right?
- [89:15]
Joe Rogan
It's not a fun job. Work. That's a real thing. That's real thing.
- [89:19]
Emma Vigeland
Real thing.
- [89:19]
Omar Badar
Willy Walker.
- [89:20]
Joe Rogan
Work. That's a real thing. That's got real thing. That's a real thing. Real thing. That's a real thing. That's real thing. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Wilgan has done it again. Offer. That's a real thing. That's. I think he might be blowing it out of proportion.
- [89:38]
Emma Vigeland
Real thing.
- [89:38]
Joe Rogan
That's offered the twerk. That's a real thing. That's poker.
- [89:43]
Emma Vigeland
Let's go, Joey.
- [89:44]
Joe Rogan
Twerk, sushi and poker.
- [89:47]
Omar Badar
Take it easy.
- [89:47]
Joe Rogan
Twerk, sushi and poker. Things have really gotten out of hand. Sushi and poker with the boys.
- [89:55]
Brandon
Sushi.
- [89:56]
Joe Rogan
You don't have a clue as to what's going on. You.
- [89:59]
Emma Vigeland
Sam has the weight of the world on the shoulders. Sam doesn't want to do this show anymore. Anymore. It was so much easier when the majority report was just you.
- [90:10]
Joe Rogan
Let's change the subject.
- [90:12]
Mike
Rangers and Knicks are doing great now.
- [90:14]
Emma Vigeland
Shut up. Don't want people saying reckless things on your program.
- [90:16]
Brandon
That's one of the most difficult parts about this show.
- [90:19]
Emma Vigeland
This is the Pro Killing podcast.
- [90:21]
Joe Rogan
I'm thinking maybe it's time we bury the hatchet.
- [90:23]
Emma Vigeland
Left his best trump. Violet. Twerk.
- [90:26]
Joe Rogan
Don't be foolish and don't tweet at me.
- [90:28]
Emma Vigeland
And don't.
- [90:29]
Omar Badar
The way has all of these people.
- [90:32]
Emma Vigeland
That's where my heart is. So I wrote my honors thesis about it. I guess I should hand the main mic to you.
- [90:42]
Joe Rogan
Now you are to the right of the unforeign policy.
- [90:45]
Emma Vigeland
We already fund Israel, dude. Are you against us?
- [90:47]
Joe Rogan
That's a tougher question.
- [90:48]
Emma Vigeland
I have an answer to. Incredible theme song. I bumbler Emma Vilan.
- [90:57]
Brandon
Absolutely one of my favorite people, actually.
- [91:00]
Emma Vigeland
Not just in the game, like period.